Flyers Pack In Six Again, Beat Bolts 6-2
by Ben Rothenberg on Nov 2, 2009 8:13 PM EST
in Philadelphia Flyers Game Recaps - 09-10
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For the second time in two games, the Flyers netted six goals. If they can keep scoring six every game, I have a hunch it could lead to a lot more wins.
Some scattered thoughts on this game:
- He hasn't gotten a lot of credit, but with this win the Flyers improved to 5-0-0 this year with Blair Betts in the lineup. None too shabby.
- Jeff Carter and Mike Richards each netted two goals, snapping respective seven and six game goalless streaks.
- David Laliberte scored again, becoming the first Flyer since Eric Lindros in 1992 to score in each of his first two games. With fellow French-Canadians Daniel Briere and Simon Gagne out of the lineup, nice to see the Flyers have more sources of accented scoring in the pipeline. His dive was pretty bush league, though.
- For a guy who only has one goal on the year, Claude Giroux sure has had a great start to the season. He looks ready to explode once a bounce or two goes his way.
- Ray Emery looked as good as he has all year. Fighting for every rebound and staying square to the shot effectively, Emery deserves a lot of credit for keeping this game as lopsided as it was.
- Mike Smith deserves even more credit for making this one a blowout. He wasn't horrible, but it was not a brilliant effort by any stretch. But his replacement, Antero Niittymaki, was impressive in his return to Philadelphia. If he had started the game, it could have been a very different story this evening.
- Rick Tocchet was my favorite player growing up, and seeing himhave a head coaching gig is pretty cool. Having it be with the hapless Lighning is decidedly less cool, though.
- Remember when Vincent Lecavalier was one of the premiere forwards in the NHL? He's now on the third line. In Tampa. How the mighty have fallen.
- Not that they were ever mighty, but wow, is the Southeast division ever atrocious right now. Except for Washington, they don't have a single team in the top ten of the standings in the East.
After the jump, Travis' pre-game questions answered, as well as your thoughts and comments on the win.
- The defensive pairings are back to normal. How do Coburn/Timonen look together again for an entire game? Same goes for Tollefsen/Syvret? Defense was pretty good. Syvret made one boneheaded play that led to the Lightning's first goal, but on the whole it was a very solid defensive game.
- How long does it take Steve Downie to drop the gloves with one of the Flyers' tough guys? Plenty of yapping, but no fights for Downie.
- Are there any ill-effects to the early start? For the Lightning, absolutely. For the Flyers, not so much.
- How sparse is the crowd, thanks to the start time and the World Series? The area right near the glass looked less than packed, but on the whole it was a pretty solid crowd given the circumstances. And a bigger crowd than would ever be at a Lightning home game.
- Can the Flyers show their superiority over the Lightning? Are the Flyers a superior team to the Lightning? Yes and yes.
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The Flyers just won two games by a combined 12-3 and Danny Syvret managed to walk away with a -3. Unbelievable.
How much longer do we have to suffer the Danny Syvret experience? His beautiful pass right on the tape to set up Stamkos’ first goal outshines his third period turnover only because of the result. Again he turned the puck over because he got flustered by a forecheck.
And the second goal he was running around like a chicken with his head cut off. He went from the boards in one corner of the ice to chase the puck carrier behind the net all the way to the other side. He should’ve gone out front and let OKT go to the other side.
TOI in the 3rd Period
Coburn – 8:02
Carle – 7:29
Syvret – 7:12
Timmonen – 6:21
OKT – 5:52
Pronger – 5:04
Notes: (1) OKT and Syvret both had 8 shifts in the third, but one of those shifts Syvret got caught out there for 1:45 and OKT had normal shifts. (2) Syvret played nearly half his TOI in the third period when it was out of hand. (3) Pronger only played 19:41 total.
As for the Talentless Mr. Powe, he turns a wide open two on one with Jeff Carter into nothing because he can’t make a decision (pass or shoot). And this video from the first period is staggering. (I don’t know how to embed videos.) There was no one within 20 feet of Powe, the puck was dumped in the far side and came around the near side, and somehow Powe skated right past it leading to an excellent scoring chance for Tampa.
There was a great play in the first period which I wanted to screen cap but stupidly wasn’t made a highlight, where a Tampa player had the puck in the high slot coming in on goal, Coburn forced him wide and Emery came a good 3-5 feet out of the crease and smothered the shot. That’s something he wasn’t doing before the weekend, but seems to be an adjustment he’s made in his game.
Thank goodness for the Z button . . .
Although, I do agree with you about Emery coming out of his crease. I am glad to see him come out a cut down the angle of the shot. I hope that is because of a rise in confidence as well as an adjustment that he, with the help of the coaching staff, has made and will be a more frequent occurrence.
by Mitchell Green on Nov 3, 2009 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Emery needed some time to re-adjust to the North American game. Perhaps, since there were a lot of precision passing plays from one side of the goal to the other in the KHL, it did not behoove goalies to come too far out of the crease. But he’s definitely looking more comfortable.
The Talentless Mr. Powe is probably smarter than you and I put together. He hustles and does whatever he can to help his team win a game. This is real life, not NHL 10. The Flyers are not automatically going to do the right things every time. Same goes for Syvret. On the Lightning’s second goal, Syvret was out there for a long time as Tampa kept pressure in the Flyers’ end for a while. He was probably gassed.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Powe does his job and he does it well. He is faster than hell and he leads the team in hits. He is fast becoming one of the better “energy” guys in the league. To call him talentless is extremely shortsighted on your part Mario. Give the guy a break – nobody is claiming he is the next Roenick.
by SanDiegoScraps on Nov 3, 2009 12:45 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
He is faster than hell
Well then, by all means, let’s sign Apolo Anton Ohno. He can fly around the ice and fumble the puck away every time he gets near it, too.
It amazes me how much you dislike this guy…
I stated my observation that Powe is fast because in this “new” NHL, team speed FREAKING MATTERS – You obviously know this. I also said that he is leading the team in hits. This is the case, in part because of his speed. He uses his skating speed (a talent, by the way) to his advantage in order to do his job – which is checking the opposition. Since he is leading the team in hits, it is more than fair to say that he does his JOB WELL.
by SanDiegoScraps on Nov 4, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Darrol Powe might not score many goals, but to call him talentless is almost as dumb as saying that Reemer doesn’t deserve to be in the NHL. By the way, was it another two point game for him? Oh yeah, I forgot, he had THREE. And does he lead the league in rookie assists AND points? Yes. Its funny that your starting to get off of his ass now that he’s shutting you up.
by orangeandblack20 on Nov 3, 2009 1:38 AM EST reply actions
13 points in ten games. Think about that. He’s 20. Think about that too.
by orangeandblack20 on Nov 3, 2009 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
Let’s look at the stellar work he’s doing…
Against Washington, San Jose, and Boston: 2 assists, -1.
Against Carolina, Florida, Tampa, and a Jersey team that nearly got their coach fired: 2g, 9a, +7.
Congrats to JVR for doing well against AHL competition, and mediocre against real teams.
Mario, you should really give this up. Every team in the cap era needs to have good cheap young talent and JVR fits the bill for that. Yes, I agree that JVR should have never made the starting roster and that our defense is much worse for that, but that’s the past. JVR has played solid (he is what he is) and that’s all you can hope for.
Holmgren definitely needs to take the cap money that he’s saving from gagne (and maybe briere soon?) and find a legit 5th or 6th D man.
I’m thinking this team is still a lock for a low playoff seeding. I think the Devils may finally slide with Martin being out for an extended period.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Nov 3, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with how JVR has played. But that was never my argument, so when this dude insists on gloating after a month when I said the detriment would be seen in February when he hits the wall because he’s never played more than 45 games in a season before…
1) JVR isn’t ready for the NHL level of competition. We’ve seen that in his injury and in the Carolina game when he almost got his neck broken by Andrew Alberts. He tries to get away with things that he could in the NCAA but won’t at this level.
2) Rushing him along like this is a detriment to his career development.
None of this has anything to do with talent and as a #2 pick on a line with one of the league’s best scorers, of course he’s piling up assists. But that is in no way related to the point.
I agree with point 1, I would have liked to see at least half a season in the AHL to let the guy get used to the level of competition.
I don’t necessarily agree with point 2. There are plenty of examples of guys since the lockout being pressed into playing early in their careers, that hasn’t been a detriment to their career development. Kane in Chicago is a relevant example, I believe. Yes, there are plenty of examples of this doing damage as well. I think Phoenix is a good case study in this. The difference is that Chicago had some veteran leadership in place whereas Phoenix really just asked the kids to step up.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Nov 3, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
But you can’t compare Kane, from the OHL, to JVR, from the NCAA.
OHL:NCAA Basketball;NCAA Hockey:HS Basketball.
Does Lebron come along once in a while? Yes. But even the best players are a lot more like Dwight Howard: needing a few pro years to develop their talent.
Regardless, I’m still not convinced that this is going to stunt his development. I think the Flyers roster has a lot of good veteran leadership and some guys that will help to mentor JVR. Once again, I’m not saying I wouldn’t have preferred to see him start in the AHL because I definitely would have, but now that he’s here, I’m glad he’s contributing. Will he hit the wall? Oh, I have no doubt about that either, but I don’t claim to think there are other guys around that would be better suited to his roster spot at this point.
My point in this whole debate is that there are far bigger holes on this team than JVR, starting with your favorite whipping boy Syvret, who is absolutely garbage.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Nov 3, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
in fact, i’d go so far as to say the entire defense has been less than stellar, starting with Pronger.
Pronger looks at times very uninterested and despite his good numbers, there have been times that he has played poorly. I don’t remember the exact time last night, but he was out of position and somebody on the Lightning absolutely schooled him. I’m not saying the guy is going to be perfect, but he hasn’t been dominate yet, IMO.
Timo and Coburn have regressed for some reason. Stevens continuing to put them together seems illogical at best, but I suppose that’s what happens when your third pairing is only capable of skating 8 minutes a game. I’d have liked for Stevens to maybe move Carle down with Timo and put Coburn with Pronger. It might not have worked, but sometimes you got to stop doing what clearly isn’t working.
They still give up way to many shots. I know we’re suppose to play a more up tempo style, but when it’s a free for all, I don’t think they can expect Biron/Emery/whatever mediocre goalie in net to bail them out continually.
Also, the time opposing forwards are sometimes left alone in front of the net is embarassing.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Nov 3, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Taking Mario's argument to its logical yet absurd conclusion...
Look at how Rick Nash is doing – 20 points in 13 games and a -3. Congratulations to Mr. Nash on being held pointless by the league powerhouse Coyotes, Oilers, and Wild. Obviously he’s not ready for the NHL level of competition.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
That’s not even close to a rational extension of my argument. Thanks for trying, though.
Next time, try making a parallel comparison rather than just throwing names and numbers out there. The Coyotes (18pts, GD +8, only 30 GA in 14 games), Oilers (15pts, GD -1), and Wild(10pts, GD -11) have nothing in common with one another.
The Flyers just won two games by a combined 12-3 and Danny Syvret managed to walk away with a -3. Unbelievable.
That is pretty remarkable.
If you want to embed videos, Mario, best way to do it would be in a FanPost.
The Daily Forehand -- SB Nation's Tennis Destination.
Broad Street Hockey.
Nope.
I’m not a site admin, but I don’t think you can. I tried doing so when I replied to your breakdown of the Sutter goal by Carolina. No such luck.
In FanPosts you can use a straight HTML editor and therefore embed videos. In comments, we are limited to WYSIWYG. I guess if you somehow converted a relevant video into an animated .GIF, you could embed that since we can embed images.
You could always create a FanPost and then link to it from the comments…
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Yup, Syvret was pretty bad again. At one point, him and OKT were simply being dominated in the zone. If not for some smart play by Emery and some good defensive play by the forwards (I think Richards was on the ice), the puck would have been in the net.
I’m looking forward to seeing the Flyers come out against a legit NHL team on Friday though. It’s hard to use TB and Carolina as a measuring stick for sure.
On another subject, a friend of mine and I were discussing the Jones situation. He believes that Gagne is probably out for the year. I know they are saying 2 months, but it makes sense that if Gags is gone for the year, they get that cap space, thus allowing them to make a financial decision and save Comcast $$ on the Jones deal, especially given that he’s not playing. It seems suspect at best ( I hope Gagne isn’t done), but it makes sense financially…or it could just be because Homer is clueless, which I think is probably closer to the truth.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Nov 3, 2009 10:36 AM EST reply actions
But if teams were calling Holmgren about Jones, couldn’t they have just traded him to someone for a 7th round pick?
And they’re only saving $1.375 mil anyway.
In this economy, that’s a good savings. This isn’t like the Gauthier situation a couple seasons ago, where Comcast didn’t care about the money.
I doubt any team out there wanted to take his full salary, which would have been the case if they had traded him no?
It’s an interesting theory though, that Comcast made the financial decision and Holmgren looks like a dumb ass, but who knows, I’m definitely not in the board room.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Nov 3, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
His salary this year is $3million
And although is a nice little savings is it worth the hit on the cap. Really early on in the season to take on that because “we knew some teams were interested and that’s the risk you take”. Either there was a deal done Clark style with a wink and a nod and we’ll talk later or Homer needs help working on the cap and payroll
The problem with the theory is that no more money has been spent.
So Holmgren has a budget to work with for the season. Presumably he gets that budget by June. Why at the end of October would he suddenly need to cut payroll? Regardless of where Jones was playing, he was still in the budget just the same.
true, but this was all hypothetical speculation by my buddy anyway. I just found it interesting and it sort of made sense financially, in the same way that you speculated that maybe Holmgren had something else up his sleeve.
I just have a hard time buying that Holmgren was apparently this clueless about the ramifications of his actions. I just don’t think it adds up. It does however, make sense to me that his boss would want to get out of paying Randy as much money as possible, to play in the juniors. They couldn’t trade him, so they “cut” his payroll out of the budget by bringing him up on waivers, knowing that someone was going to claim him.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Nov 3, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Except I have a hard time believing that Snider (who still owns 37% of Comcast-Spectacor) wouldn’t just foot the bill (i.e., provide the $3m in cashflow himself). He knows as much as any of us how this team is built to “win now.”
Course this is all speculation, but these past few games haven’t been sellouts — somewhere around 19,000 (~97%) on average — thanks to the Phillies, and I bet merchandise sales are down quite a good bit (Phillies). CSN did announce though that Flyers ratings in the first 8 games were at a 2.5 (74,300 households), compared to a 2.0 (59,400 households) in the first 8 games last year. Not sure how that all balances out.
I have a ton of respect for Ed Snider. I think he’s a wonderful guy. I have a friend who is at the executive level with the Sixers and have heard many things about Ed, with almost all of them painting a good picture of the man.
That said, there is no fucking way Ed would write a check for $3mil to cover Randy Jones’ salary.
The Flyers ticket ticket demand is up this season on the secondary market. I’m not aware of anyplace to look up attendance by game, but last season there were atleast 3% unsold tickets as well. They’ve never really recovered from the 2006-07 season.
Sorry Mario, but the Flyers average attendance was 100.2% of the capacity of the Wachovia Center. And they had good attendance even when we were worst in the league.
by DragonGirl0583 on Nov 4, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
98.9% during the Season That Must Not Be Named.
The only cities that consistently turn out for hockey, good or bad, are Toronto, Montreal, Detroit, New York (for the Rags, not the Isles), the Twin Cities (for the Wild), and Philadelphia. Pretty much everyone else either goes up and down with the success of their team, or just has (relatively) bad attendance no matter what.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
You’re totally missing the point.
Up until 2006-07, the Flyers pretty much sold out before the season started. That’s why the ticket sales that year were fantastic. However, you could buy buy $10 tickets to any game the second half of that season. I went to tons of them.
Last season, I went to like 10 of the first 20 home games because no one wanted tickets. All of those games I got for between $12-$15. I specifically remember a game on a Sunday afternoon, November 2 (because I remember it was the weekend of the Phillies’ parade), against Edmonton that I’d say about 14,000 people actually showed up for.
Until the lockout the Flyers never had to advertise ticket sales. Until the 2006-07 season, the Flyers never had to run ticket promotions (Dollar Dog/Pretzel/etc.).
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