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Around SBN: Pacquiao vs Bradley: Potential Undercard Fighters

the "upgraded D"


This is just a "Rant and Rave" Post

This offseason, Flyers' General Manager: Paul Holmgren spent the offseason with the ambition to improve the Flyers defensively.

To take the "next step", the Flyers wanted to "tighten up" the D.

So, they've added new Goaltending: Ray Emery and Brian Boucher

Brought in new Defensemen: Chris Pronger, Ole-Krisitan Tollefsen

and new "Defensive" Forwards: Ian Laperriere & Blair Betts

This was done to add to the Flyers strong "Defensive" talent that was already on the team: Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Scott Hartnell, Kimmo Timonen, Braydon Coburn.

And subtracted the personal they've felt were hurting their defensive causes: Goalie Martin Biron, Defensemen Randy Jones...

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't defense in Ice Hockey, at its base, measured by the number of goals you give up? There's other catagories to measure defense: take aways, blocked shots, plus/minus, hits, saves, save%, shots against, etc. But, again, at its base...the measurement is goals against.

Now there's a lot more that goes into keeping goals off the board, besides those defensive catagories.

Face-offs: which is an issue that's been addressed quite a lot here at BSH. It's not just how often you win them, it can come down as to when and where you win them (or lose them). I don't beleive there are stats that break down how often a team wins/loss faceoffs in their own zone, neutral zone, attacking zone, etc. After icing calls, offside calls. But, winning a faceoff in your own zone gives your team the opportunity to breakout (this becomes even more crutial when short-handed). Winning face-offs in your opponents zone creates a scoring chance (especially on the power play). Face-offs won in the neutral zone, means you can either start a rush or chip into the opponents zone and get fresh legs on the ice. Face-offs allow you to gain or loss possession of the puck. It's hard for the other team to score when they don't have the puck.

With the Puck: What you do with the puck when you have it, can either aide your defensive efforts or put them in compromising positions. Give Aways (I wish there was a stat that seperated "forced turnovers" and "unforced turnovers" as well as turnovers in the different zones). Mishandles with the puck, telegraphed passes that get tipped or intercepted, mishandling a pass, fanning on the puck whether trying to pass it or shoot it. It's hard for the other team to score when they don't have the puck.

Penalties: When you take penalties yes it effects your ability to control the game and stop the other team from scoring. But, when the other team takes a penalty and you have the Power Play. The Power Play is not only an opportunity to score, but also an opportunity to keep the other team from scoring for 2-minutes.

other violations ,like offsides and icing, where you either ruin scoring chances or can't get fresh legs on the ice.

Positioning: Being out of position can effect your ability to stop the puck, like getting too deep in your zone. Leaving your area of the ice.

Awareness: Especially in your own zone when the other team has the puck, or when short-handed. Know where everyone on the other team is relative to both the goal and the puck.

The Flyers supposebly signed personal that would do all these little things that help keep the puck out of the Flyers goal. And only inhance the great scoring depth the Flyers have.

The thought was now the Flyers will be able to compete with the top teams of the NHL. They may not beat all of them, but they should beable to compete with them better than they have in the past.

Well apparently that's not the case.

The San Jose Sharks, may be a western conference team, but they are an NHL powerhouse and have been the last decade. This is one of the teams you'd think the Flyers could compete with. They may not beat them, but at least be able to compete with them, better than they have in the past.

Last season (with lesser "Defensive" personal). The Flyers faced San Jose twice and competed very well with them losing 2 games in over-time, I believe the final scores were like 5-4, 7-6. Giving up 12 goals in 2 games is a bit much, but they were able to score with them (scoring 10 goals in the two games). You'd figure with better "Defense" they'd be able to if not beat the Sharks, at least, keep the Sharks' scoring down. This season in 2 games the flyers with their "improved defense", have been outscored 10 to 4.

And it's the way they were dominated. Unforced Turnovers, Not clearing the "porch" for their goaltender (of the 6 goals scored against in last nights game, at least 3 were from point-blank rage). Forcing passes, not receiving passes, being outworked along the walls.  The Short-handed goal against, was a breakdown of fundamentals (you know with the Flyers "lesser D" last season, they gave up 1 shortie in 82 games; this season the much "improved D" has given up 3 in 19 games). Having 4 of your 5 skaters below the opposing teams goal line fighting for the puck is a mistake you expect to see 8 year olds make, not seasoned pros.

I hope the Flyers play smarter tonight, I hope they don't take the Phoenix Jets too lightly.

It's unfortunate, but the Flyers spent the offseason "improving their D" and through the first 19 games they haven't "improved on D". 

 



This item was written by a member of this community and is not necessarily endorsed by Broad Street Hockey.

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“Now correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t defense in Ice Hockey, at its base, measured by the number of goals you give up”?

Only 4 teams have given up fewer goals than us

by Prometheus74 on Nov 21, 2009 11:35 AM EST reply actions  

sums it up beautifully

I thought this post was going somewhere, and it seemed kind of interesting since you start off with some okay stats and relevant qualitative information…

…but then you fell into the most classic trap a theorist can fall into.

Using a single case study as the basis of your theory is the easiest way to create a really shitty theory. This isn’t even debatable, it’s been proved true over and over and over again in every single field of science (social and physical) known to man. That’s where the idea of “small sample size” comes from (hopefully that isn’t a new term to anyone).

For the sake of education: If you only ever watch one game of baseball, and you watch Albert Pujols go 0 for 4 or 1 for 5, you probably think he’s awful. If you pull your head out of the sand and look at all his at-bats, you quickly realize that in fact he’s exceptionally good.

Similarly with the Flyers D, if you look at the SJ game (and even 5-6 to 10 games total) and use them as a basis for saying we have not improved our defense, it’s time to get your head out of the sand. Rough patches of ice and all, so far the Flyers defense has definitively improved since last year.

by Alon on Nov 22, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s tough to make any conclusions based on any game at the HP Pavilion, if that’s how terrible the ice always is.

by Ben Feldman on Nov 21, 2009 12:25 PM EST reply actions  

Its just one game and the first time we let up 6 goals all year and it was against one of the best teams in the league. I think you’re just nitpicking here.

by Parduno on Nov 21, 2009 12:30 PM EST reply actions  

Listing Hartnell in the “Defensive” talent list is like listing Cote in “offensive” talent. Do you see hoe he doesn’t even enter the defensive zone most of the time(see his goal tonight). I love Hartnell, don’t get me wrong, but he no better then Danny at defense.

by JpH89 on Nov 22, 2009 12:15 AM EST reply actions  

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