Devils Win 4-1, Flyers Still Hellaciously Bad
by Ben Rothenberg on Dec 13, 2009 12:06 AM EST
in 09-10 Game Recaps
97 comments
The good news: Claude Giroux scored a crazy soft goal to prevent Martin Brodeur from claiming a record 104th career shutout against the Orange and Black.
The bad news: Everything else.
I don't want to go into the gruesome details of this game too much, but suffice it was nothing new. They looked terrible. If his last name starts with a "C," he was especially terrible.
The Flyers, as we know them right now, are simply not a good hockey team. The switch to Laviolette clearly was not enough to put this team back on track. It's now pretty clear that something pretty drastic has got to happen, and soon. I recommend confiscating the players' cars and making them walk to work every day. They could use that kind of character building. I would let Boucher keep his car for now, though. He's not to blame at all for this mess.
Here are some harsh realities the team has to deal with right now:
- In their last ten games against teams that don't rhyme with "Die Flanders," the Flyers are 0-10-0, earning exactly zero points.
- In those ten games, the Flyers have scored 14 goals, which works out to an average of 1.4 goals a game. The all-time record for lowest GAA for a goalie for a season is 1.91, a full half-goal above the Flyers current production.
- For the first time this season, the Flyers have more regulation losses than they have wins. Yowch. They also now average less than a point-per-game for the first time in this campaign
After the jump, highlights from the game, questions answered, and tonight's pick for the best Philadelphia bridge to jump off of.
Questions answered with the same amount of effort as the team put in:
- Does this team come out ready to play? Nope.
- Can they get a 60 minute effort? Nope.
- Will the special teams do their job? Nope.
- Can Brian Boucher continue his stellar play? Nope.
- Is it possible to win two in a row in New Jersey? Nope.
The Market Street Bridge is lovely this time of year.
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Do you guys like Guacamole? Yup
sry, had to break the successive nope’s at the end
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Dec 12, 2009 11:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I do!
I had Mexican food tonight at El Jarocho. I love that place.
I missed the game, too, because I went to the movies.
Good thing.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 12, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
same here…. got to admit watching a movie like Ninja Assassin is not as bad as watching our boys when they are down and out at the moment.
Skip the Pitt, Move on down to Broad Street....
Philadelphia Flyers / Columbus Blue Jackets, 'nuff said.
by PhillyPhan85 on Dec 13, 2009 8:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Went shopping with the wife and didn’t actually regret it, well at-least some of it. UGH!
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 13, 2009 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All I want for Christmas after watching this team is a bottle of scotch and a Hand Gun so I can end it all and forget I ever had to watch this team.
by You don't have to be sweet, to be good on Dec 12, 2009 11:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
jesus man
if you’re that determined i’ll ship you the vhs tape of the last time the Flyers were in the Stanley Cup Finals
wait, that might not be the best idea
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Dec 13, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll fire up my silver Delorean and then I’ll be able to watch it.
by pintium02 on Dec 13, 2009 2:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I give up , my Joe Thornton jersey is in the mail.
by Jake739 on Dec 13, 2009 12:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just Terrible...
I would normally say I was fortunate enough to attend this game, but being there just made it hurt even worse. Carle looked like he was a step behind the men he was supposed to be defending the entire game. I truly can’t think of a single positive to take from this game, they were just that bad. And I had the (mis)fortune of seeing it from 17 rows up.
As an aside, this was the first Flyers game I actually attended (been to Phantoms games before). The NJ crowd was ridiculously quiet and mostly couldn’t care less. I saw only two moments when the maybe 50% filled building got excited: the fourth goal on the 2-on-1, and the end. To start the game off, a ton of Flyers fans to my right rocked a “Let’s go Flyers!” chant that could be heard throughout the arena. Our fans are bringing it, even on the road, so why aren’t the players???
by CTFlyer on Dec 13, 2009 12:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
So what is the deal with Coburn? In every highlight over the past few games, when the opposing team scores, Coburn is just standing there or sliding on the ice effectively doing nothing. I am not sure as to how I stand on the issue but I could possibly see him involved with a trade if they continue playing this bad.
by ov3rl0rdl on Dec 13, 2009 12:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Homer needs to take a serious look at trading Carter. he has talents, but glaring holes in his game as well. The prospects of doing so are not completely alien to homer either, remember the flyers and leafs agreed on a Carter/Kaberle swap that Kaberle nixed.
Carter is just a bum right now. hes lazy. hes a one dimensional offensive player (shoot) and a slightly above average defender. He doesnt give it all every shift, he only seems to try when the defense forgets about him and gives him an opportunity. thats why he was lethal at the beginning of last season, defenses werent aware of him. as he became known around the league players started to pay more attention to him and he more or less gave up when facing any serious defensive attention. his contract is up after next season and you know we wont be able to resign him. get his sorry ass out of here to send a message to the rest of the team that such laziness will not be tolerated, whether your name is David Laliberte or Jeff Carter.
by njh3293 on Dec 13, 2009 12:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
On their third goal
Maybe it was the fourth, Carter worked his ass off to get back into the play and almost made a diving block pass sending himself hard into the boards.
by orangeandblack20 on Dec 13, 2009 3:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, it was the fourth goal. Carter came rushing back, and dove to try and do something, but he couldn’t get the puck. He worked quite a bit last night, and skated hard to get a breakaway while shorthanded, but he doesn’t do that night-in, night-out. Maybe he can start doing that, and maybe that’d change my mind, but if you asked me right now if there was a Flyer most likely to be traded, it’d be Carter.
by CTFlyer on Dec 13, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The greatest injustice is what Brian Boucher is enduring, no doubt.
But the second greatest injustice of poor Danny Briere stuck with Carter and JVR on every shift. They’ve got to break that line up.
by MarioD on Dec 13, 2009 1:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely. I really, really want to see Briere and Giroux on the same line.
by CTFlyer on Dec 13, 2009 1:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
didnt they play well together last season?
by beatniche on Dec 13, 2009 6:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, they did, and I remember pretty clearly that Briere and Giroux were working really well together in the playoffs. Briere’s the kind of player that can really benefit most from Giroux’s passing abilities, IMO.
by CTFlyer on Dec 13, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Glad I missed it.
I still have hope that we will turn it around, but some boys might be heading off.
Hartnell, Colburn, Carter, who knows what deals are in the mix right now.
Odd thing is I bet Gary Buttman is even rooting for the Flyers now.
He sure wont want the Flyers to give an effortless game on New Years
by Prometheus74 on Dec 13, 2009 1:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The sole period I watched of this game while out to dinner with my family made me want to throw up. The players were practically tripping over themselves—when they weren’t tripping the Devils—and they just looked lost and sloppy. No one positioned themselves to around the net to get the few juicy rebounds Brodeur let up. They were constantly in their own offensive end.
Just disgusting all around and they owe me $10 for the 2 additional beers I had to drink during dinner just to get through my meal.
by doubleh on Dec 13, 2009 2:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what is more painful, watching that game or hearing Bill Clement tell me how great Jeff Carter is afterward? Not that he is near being the only problem but they harped on it and he got a lot of ice time. Seems as if they are openly shopping him, just my opinion.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 13, 2009 8:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree, they keep telling us how great Carter is, but he can’t score a meaningful goal to save his life this season.
by SkookFlyerfan on Dec 13, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I will be honest those 46 last year were the most anonymous 46 goals I will never remember. Regardless of the scoring I can’t get past not forechecking and really not finishing checks. If he made that his entire game plan I would think some scoring would come from nothing else but creating a turnover from taking the body. And I am only so critical of Carter because the friggin’ guy is so gifted it makes you crazy to see him play so uninspired and lazy hockey.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 13, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carter…can’t score a meaningful goal to save his life this season.
those 46 last year were the most anonymous 46 goals I will never remember.
This line of thought is absurdly ridiculous and incorrect.
3 of his 11 goals this season are game winning goals.
12 of 46 last season were game winning goals.
Jeff Carter led the league in game winning goals last season.
This season, only nine players have more game winning goals than he does.
by MarioD on Dec 13, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean like the game winner he had against the isles the other night when he scored in the first period to make it 3-0. That was an annonymous as it gets, what a gamer. That was typical jeff Carter best scorer with a 2 goal lead in the league. But when you are down a goal in the third like the other night nothing. I want my 46 goal scorer to bury an open netter in the playoffs or finish on a breakaway. I am only hard on the guy because I know he is better.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 13, 2009 9:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Notice how i said THIS SEASON. Yes LAST SEASON he was good, and that’s why its so frustrating watching him suck. They’ve even resorted to putting him in front of the goalie on the PP. He’s the person i’m frustrated wtih the most on this team and he isn’t producing. Clement was praising him last game about being the best player on the ice but all he ever did was come close. So far he the Lupul of the team this year. He shows up once every couple of games an puts in 2, then disappears from the scoring sheet.
by SkookFlyerfan on Dec 14, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And notice how the second person I quoted said “last season”.
And you were both wrong.
by MarioD on Dec 14, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still feel that the we need to move a D-Man to get some offense in here either too much money is spend on the blueline and we can’t score. Maybe Timmo or Coburn or something to get some big bodies. Every game the Knuble mis-step is looking worse and worse. Despite Carter’s not scoring at the pace he did last year someone has to step up on this team and put the damn puck in the net. If it was just Carter that is fine but nobody is scoring at all anybody. I can’t figure it out we were scoring at the top in the league earlier I have no idea how it can go so bad so fast, at the PK and PP into that mix as well. All were at the top now every phase of this team beside goaltender is really bad I don’t get it all. Is it hard to explain and even harder to fix.
by chrislanci on Dec 13, 2009 9:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Would anyone be adverse to trading Carter and Coburn to, say, the Wild, who are desperate for scoring, for a package of draft picks and prospects? Cause I don’t know if this is going anywhere, even with a trade that brings back NHL players.
by Ben Feldman on Dec 13, 2009 9:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
It would have to be too big of a package.
You can’t give up on this year without getting back enough, not to replenish the draft picks, but to give them an advantage in draft picks.
And considering you’re giving away possibly 2 1sts, a 2nd, and 2 3rds by trading Carter and Coburn, it seems pretty impossible to me.
by MarioD on Dec 13, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Minor quick fix suggested
Time to promote Maroon, Matsumoto, Legein and Marshall from Adirondack. Send down Tollefsen, Nodl, Cote and Pyorala. Can’t hurt and might help. Should JVR be sent down when Gagne returns?
by memphisbrando on Dec 13, 2009 9:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
You want to call four guys up for two roster spots? One of which is likely to be gone at the end of the week.
How does it help anything to have the future sitting in the booth upstairs?
by MarioD on Dec 13, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe on their way to Boston they’ll swing by Fenway park to look at the rink and think to themselves, “We don’t want to get completely embarrassed here” and step it up.
by NoalB on Dec 13, 2009 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
flyers who need to go NOW
1) coburn
2) hartnell
3) briere
as for the rest, don’t let them in any old town bar.
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
by psudrozz on Dec 13, 2009 12:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Briere? Why because he’s a top scorer on this team? Or because he’s showing more hustle than anyone else?
by Mike B on D on Dec 13, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What’s with all the Briere hate? I don’t get it. Briere has actually been one of the few players that comes to play every game. Plus his No Movement Clause along with his injury history and cap hit make him untradable, so all the Briere haters need to get used to seeing #48 in orange and black for the foreseeable future.
Flyers # 1 problem right now = goal scoring. To fix this, you don’t trade your leading and most proven goal scorer.
by SanDiegoScraps on Dec 13, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True Facts.
I agree, Leave Danny alone. He’s not the issue. Dude, the diminutive French-Canadian center is not the issue here. We needs goals. Goals we needs.
I can’t believe that we, as Flyers fans, are saying “No one can score for us!” But let’s reflect for a minute: If Knuble and Lupul were still here we’d have 15 more goals than we do now. That sounds nice, but that means that one or two others (who have scored goals) would not be in the lineup. So our record would likely be the same anyway; maybe it would be marginally better.
I only mention it because some of the MSM hockey writers are beginning to say that the losses of Knuble and Lupul are hurting the Flyers more than they anticipated. That may be true, but I don’t think that if they were still here we’d be that much better off.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 13, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Knuble and Lupul were still here we’d have 15 more goals than we do now.
And the Flyers would be saddled with Knuble’s terrible contract next year.
by MarioD on Dec 13, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup. Not to mention Lupul’s for 3 more years.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 13, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2.5 is terrible for a guy that can score 30 goals (he won’t this year) and is unquestionably a great lockerroom presence? You want a terrible contract you don’t have to go looking for Knuble’s, you’ve got enough in your own room.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey hey hey!
It’s The Official Internet Defender of All Things Washington Capital Related, trolling once again!
It’s been almost a full week, did something actually take place in real life to distract you from self-appointed duties?
by MarioD on Dec 14, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ooooh. Playing the “in real life card.” Good job. Nah, I just found a new Huckleberry and I like to play.
Noticed you didn’t bother responding to any of my points. Query friend, how many teams in the league would prefer to take on your boy Briere’s contract over Knuble’s? I seem to remember you all being sad that he left but understanding that he deserved more money than you could offer. Guess it’s a bad contract now that he’s on the Caps though, right?
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your grasp of reality is really tenuous.
how many teams in the league would prefer to take on your boy Briere’s contract over Knuble’s?
This question is asinine since there are only about three teams who could afford Briere’s contract right now. But Briere is better dollar for dollar value than Mike Knuble is.
Now, I’m really not interested in talking about fucking Mike Knuble, so go away.
by MarioD on Dec 14, 2009 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well outside your little world the Briere contract is pretty unanimously considered an anchor. But think what you want.
And the Knuble contract was hailed by basically everyone as a good signing for the Caps.
Don’t tell me what to do.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We’ve already established you live in fantasy land, stop contributing evidence.
by MarioD on Dec 14, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My fantasy land is getting crowded
And here’s your evidence.
Mike Knuble actually was a pretty good signing for the Caps.
And Briere is one of the worst NHL contracts.
You don’t have to agree with any of that, but I’m not making shit up; nor am I in a fantasy land.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, wow! NHL.com thinks an NHL team made a good signing! You’re not the only ignorant person in the world, congrats.
by MarioD on Dec 14, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I got you as company. I linked to 6 separate places and you discredit 1 as being from the NHL itself. Well done, Huck. How about your “evidence”? Is it just that you love your boy Briere and you don’t like Knuble being on the Caps? Feel free to make a legitimate point anytime.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. Trading Briere would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.
by Mike B on D on Dec 14, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jumping the gun?
There is a lot of trade talk going on. I dont think a trade is in order…..yet. I think the whole problem is the line combinations. Carter and Hartnell worked well together last year, maybe with syrett (sorry about the spelling), Giroux and Briere as the top 2 lines. worked well before why not now? I have been at a loss all season so far as to why the lines were changed so drastically from last. Granted we lost knuble, but jvr can fill his roll. if not there are other potential players to chose from. There is a lot of talent on this team and my thinking is that it is not being used wisely.
by craiger6 on Dec 13, 2009 1:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Except for the Islanders game Boosh has to pitch a shutout just to get the Flyers a point. Could they take the C from Richards already? Thy problem is obviously not the coach. I wasn’t in favor of firing him anyway. It doesn’t matter what system you have, if you’re a professional hockey team you should be able to score, especially with this talent
by SkookFlyerfan on Dec 13, 2009 2:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So I saw on the Yahoo! team report today that Eric Staal and Bobby Ryan have come up for possible trades regarding Jeff Carter. Staal would be nice, but he makes 6 mill which means we’d be right up againt the cap wall seeing as Carter makes 5mill. Honestly, I would shake all the lines up before making a trade. Here’s what I came up with:
1. JVR/Briere/Giroux
2. Legin/Carter/Hartnell
3. Pyrolla/ Richards/Asham
4. Carcillo (Seeing as they keep playign him)/ Matsumoto/Lappy
Personally, I thought moving Briere to wing this summer was the dumbest thing that the Flyers could have ever done. He is not built to play in the corners and he tends to shy away from physical play. In addition to that, breaking up the Briere/Giroux line was just so dumb. They worked so well together last year and they should have at least tried it out. Next biggest mistake, having way too many goons on this team. They have four that play with Betts and Gagne out. We only need Lappy and Asham. Carcillo completely sucks and does nothing but take dumb penalties at awful times. Cote can’t even skate and it amazes me how someone with so little skill can even play in the NHL. We have thses two pieces of shit playing while we have skill players like Legin, Matsumoto, Maroon, etc sitting down in the minor. Then they go and sign John Grahme who just got kicked off his KHL team for alchol problems to a minor league contract. That’s just wonderful……
by flyers29 on Dec 13, 2009 2:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree, somewhat.
Briere is too small to play wing. Put him at center.
I for one would love to see a “French Connection” line with Briere, Giroux, and Gagne on it. Giroux played well with both Gagne and Briere last season.
An Eric Staal trade would be great but would not be doable. His cap hit his 8.25 million. The Flyers would have to trade Coburn, Carter, and Carcillo for Staal alone, and they would no longer have any cap room as a result.
I recommend the following, once everyone is healthy:
Gagne-Briere-Giroux
Hartnell-Richards-Carter
Asham-Pyorala-Powe
Carcillo-Betts-Laperriere
The Flyers tried a similar course of action during the Cup years with MacLeish. They paired him with the hard-working Gary Dornhoefer and Ross Lonsberry. MacLeish had the same issues as Carter – extremely talented but could sometimes come across as not trying.
A Bobby Ryan trade would not be feasible because Carter’s salary would out Anaheim over the cap. They’d have to throw in someone else – perhaps our old friend Steve Eminger – which would make the deal not bloody likely.
Financially speaking, they could do something like Ryan and Wisniewski for Carter and Coburn,but they’d be right up against the cap ceiling after that deal.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 13, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is why you need to send Carter, Coburn and Emery to Anaheim for Ryan and Giguere. It sends us another winger that we desperately need, stabilizes the golatending for a couple of years and really shakes up the foundation of the team. Centers should Briere, Giroux, Richards and whoever. Also, I really would like to see them try to get a wet fart for Carcillo because that is what he is worth. The last part was sarcasm, I think.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 13, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be a nice trade, right there…
by Ben Feldman on Dec 13, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And the money is almost dead even.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 13, 2009 6:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't happen.
A nice idea, though.
Emery is the wild card in all of this. He’s injured during a season in which he is proving to the league that he can still play without losing his temper. If he hadn’t been cut by Ottawa and exiled to the KHL during the past two years, this might actually be doable.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 13, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As a backup to hiller who is young and talented enough to take the job but also young enough to hit a bump. Emery is the right price for the job and with the time off still needing to get back into NHL shape. His injury is not shocking seeing as he might have taken on too much too soon. But you are right that it is just a toss out there blog trade. I also think that trade isn’t about Emery and Coburn as much as Carter. We are frustrated with him but the league still sees him as a bright rising 46 goal scoring young star.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 13, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan and Coburn are a wash in franchise value. But then you’re giving up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick in the form of Carter.
The salary is a wash until you realize that the Flyers then have to go find a second pairing defenseman to replace Coburn. So they really can’t afford it.
by MarioD on Dec 13, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mario you are very knowledgeable there is no doubt. What is your assesment of Parent? Do you see him as a top 4? He is young but he seems to have a little Pronger in him he is big and likes to hit. I would like to see him play with Pronger but not sure if looking out for the kid us what Pronger wants to do.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 13, 2009 9:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll go one further. MarioD, you’re openly critical of the team structure and Holmgren.
What moves would you make if you were in charge?
by ToddtheFox on Dec 13, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
1) Fire Holmgren, replace him with a GM who recognizes the skill set of this team.
2) Apologize profusely to Peter Laviolette, give him a sack of money, and replace him with a defensive coach. I hear John Stevens is available. Play the style of hockey this team was built for.
3) Send JVR to the AHL and free up $1.6mil in cap space by not replacing him on the roster. Your forward depth chart is then:
LW: Gags-Hartnell-Carcillo-Asham
C: Richards-Carter-Betts-Kalinski/Powe/Ross
RW: Giroux-Briere-Laperierre-Powe/Kalinski/Nodl
4) With the ~$2mil in cap space acquire a third line center who will win faceoffs, play defense, and can score a little.
I’d offer a 2011 2nd round pick to Minnesota for Eric Belanger ($1.7m cap hit and UFA after this season).
5) Hire a staff of virgins to pray for Blair Betts shoulder and Ray Emery’s abdomin.
This puts the Flyers right back in the position they were in in September 2009, and costs them only a 2011 2nd round draft pick.
by MarioD on Dec 13, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On board with the holmgren thing totally. Having this guy as the GM is representative of the fuitily this team has been mired in for years.
Mario how do see Carter. Can he be the legitimate consistent performer? I just see him as underwhelming. I know he is good and has scored a lot of important goals but I would like him to finish a check once in a while.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 13, 2009 10:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
He’s a very good player. I have no problem with him whatsoever.
I just think someone is going to offer him a contract the Flyers can’t afford in 2011.
by MarioD on Dec 13, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Along those lines of thinking are the flyers better off with compensation or tangible player talent. I personnally like the idea of getting a proven performer over picks even if that proven player doesn’t necessarily equate to the same compensatory value. Sooner or later all this franchise value has to add up to a cup. I might sacrifice franchise value for a top flight lock down goaltender it has been so long since that hasn’t been even a topic for conversation. And really I don’t believe Emery is he answer. He was all they could afford but not a piece of the cup puzzle.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 13, 2009 11:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Apologize profusely to Peter Laviolette, give him a sack of money, and replace him with a defensive coach. I hear John Stevens is available. Play the style of hockey this team was built for.
Didn’t you say Stevens and Lavs had the same system? Why would you go back to the coach that had the team quit on him? If Stevens wasn’t defensive the first time around, why would he be now.
“These guys don’t like change,” Laviolette said. “Change is hard. Change is tough. This is a complete change in philosophy. In Carolina, it didn’t happen right away.”
There’s also a gem about Briere in there.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Said gem:
Laviolette called out Danny Briere yesterday for his crosschecking penalty against the Devils and made him skate in front of the entire team.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 14, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it.
I used to play roller hockey (goalie) years ago. I sucked, so as you can imagine I never played any ice hockey, organized or otherwise.
What does it mean when someone is made to “skate in front of the entire team?”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 14, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s basically just a statement to embarrass a player. You either do wind sprints or skate board to board a few times while the rest of the team just watches you. You just single the guy out for hurting the team, impose an obnoxious punishment and let the community humiliation set in. At least, that’s the goal.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In that case, he should have the entire team, aside from Boucher, take turns doing this.
I liken this to Cholly benching Rollins; if you bench one of the stars/humiliate him, well then everyone else knows they aren’t getting away with anything either.
by doubleh on Dec 14, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that when you do it to the whole team it loses some of the effect. Of course the whole team has to be disciplined, but there is an acute response rooted in human nature when you single a guy out for particularly egregious misconduct.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was joking, really; I understand why he did it—just making the point that the entire team is playing like shit so it seems unfair to just single one guy out.
But I did say that I see this as similar to what Cholly did to Rollins in 2008. It does have more effect that way, especially when you single out an important player to the team.
by doubleh on Dec 14, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Stevens wasn’t defensive the first time around, why would he be now.
Good question. If Stevens was supposed to have a defensive system last year, then why did the Flyers get out-shot all of the time?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 14, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Last year: 16th in GA/G at 2.83; 14th at 5-on-5 goal ratio (1.01); 25th in SA/G at 32.5; outshot in 42 games (compared to 32 games where they outshot the opposition).
Just throwing the stats out there for any possible answers.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 14, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it’d also be good to know:
16th in winning percentage when scoring first; 5th when leading after one; 20th when leading after two.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 14, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you followed the Flyers instead of just trolling, you’d understand why you are wrong.
by MarioD on Dec 14, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why don’t you explain it to me then?
And by every definition of “trolling” you fit much better than I do. I don’t come down with a dismissive and condescending tone. I bring facts and reasoned arguments. You think you’re better than everyone and we’re lucky to be in your presence. Keep ’em coming, Huck.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You’re a troll because you are entirely ignorant to what you’re talking about and instead of adding to conversation, you just jump in and challenge things ignorantly.
John Stevens is a defensive coach. He was forced by Paul Holmgren this year to change his system to have defensemen joining in the rush and forechecking more.
Do a little fucking research before making uninformed challenges.
by MarioD on Dec 14, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not taking sides here, but...
… notice Geoff’s reply above:
Last year: 16th in GA/G at 2.83; 14th at 5-on-5 goal ratio (1.01); 25th in SA/G at 32.5; outshot in 42 games (compared to 32 games where they outshot the opposition).
If Stevens is supposed to be a defensive coach, his team didn’t play like it last year, before Homer told him what to do.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 14, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know I'm totally ignorant, but...
Haven’t the Flyers had one of the most potent offensive teams the last two years? Haven’t they been, like, the example of offensive depth? With all those 20 goal scorers and 50+ point guys? Scoring right through the lineup. Haven’t their question marks been in net and on D? How is that a team that is “built to play defensive hockey”? When I think of a team “built to play defensive hockey” I think of the Rags last year, and MIN, and CBJ until recently. Teams with stud goalies and thin scoring up front. The Flyers are the exact opposite of that. They are completely built to play high-offense hockey. They aren’t getting the scoring now, but that doesn’t change the fact that they’re flush with offensive talent.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haven’t the Flyers had
is "built
Hey, look at that! Changing tenses to create a false dichotomy! Just like trollers do!
by MarioD on Dec 14, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What exactly is different? They still have scoring depth, they still have a hole in net, they just have a beefed up D corps (with lots of offensively competent D men).
Hey, look at that! Ignoring the argument and focusing on non-issues! Just like trollers do!
Huck, you sure make the time pass.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, they did. They were just terrible at it. But John Stevens approaches hockey from a defensive mentality. He’s formative coaching years came under Ken Hitchcock and their styles are similar in a lot of ways.
I have no clue how you can follow this team and not realize that.
by MarioD on Dec 14, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2007-08 ranks:
6th in G/G at 2.99; 18th in GA/G at 2.77; 23rd in 5-on-5 goal ratio (0.90); 27th in SA/G at 31.8; outshot in 48 games (compared to 30 games where they outshot the opposition).
You can obviously guess that the season he took over, they were absolutely atrocious at all facets of the game. Therefore, it’s not worth saying.
Trying to think of another stat to include and I looked at winning percentage when entering the 3rd period with the lead: 08-09: 20th at .844, 07-08: 12th at .882.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 14, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Parent has played a grand total of 76 NHL games, 75 in the last three years. Never more than 31 NHL games in a season.
He’s still developmentally somewhere between late rookie year and mid-sophomore year. He needs to be given time to develop into his full potential.
For this team, he cannot be a 2nd pairing Dman because he lacks the skating/offensive skills. He’s an average to above average third pairing d-man, a below average second pairing dman.
by MarioD on Dec 13, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally fair assesment. I really think he has potential but that is where he is right now.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 13, 2009 10:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Along that line of thinking would you give up those picks, 1,2&3, for giguere. In saying that I mean do you think he is still the Stanley Cup winning, franchise goaltender? That could be worth the picks especially since even if they work this mess out up front do you really think they are going to do anything in the playoffs with either Emery or Boucher? I mean really something.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 13, 2009 10:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
No.
One of the reasons they traded two 1sts for Pronger was the fact that they likely will get a 1st in compensation for Coburn, definitely get a 1st for Carter (whether compensation or rights-trade) or keep those guys and don’t need to restock the farm system until 2012 so that the are on the upswing of the next generation led by Giroux/JVR, with Pronger aging and Richards in the prime of his career.
Parent is also RFA but I can’t really figure out what his market will be. But with the names in the AHL, the Flyers should be content to wait and see what happens with both Coburn and Parent. Decline to match anything in the salary range that returns them a 1st rounder (cap hit over $2,615,623). Match anything below that and then move either the defensemen prospects or one of those guys for draft picks.
by MarioD on Dec 13, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I thought moving Briere to wing this summer was the dumbest thing that the Flyers could have ever done.
Briere was moved to wing in camp in 2008.
by MarioD on Dec 13, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank god for 4 X FF
Otherwise this game was unwatchable.
I am usually the last guy to give up and say this is just terrible hockey, but this is just terrible hockey.
by boknows71 on Dec 14, 2009 11:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
WE NEED BLAIR BETTS!!!
I’ve been counting down the days until we get that fucker back. I’m calling it right now, as soon as he is in the lineup again, Flyers win 9 of the ensuing 10 games.
by halx on Dec 14, 2009 2:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He’ll re-dislocate his shoulder before they win 10 games with him.
by MarioD on Dec 14, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He may dislocate it while pouring himself a bowl of cereal at this point.
The Daily Forehand -- SB Nation's Tennis Destination.
Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Dec 14, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I posted this before, but I’ve had clients who dislocate their shoulder getting out of a chair.
by MarioD on Dec 14, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ball-and-socket joints can be tricky. Actually any joint can be tricky.
I once dislocated my kneecap as a direct result of playing hockey (but as an indirect result of some other things; namely, the pocket where my right patella sits is not quite as deep as it should be). Years later I dislocated that same kneecap during a game of touch/shove football… although I never had my knee hit. I was shoved to the ground and landed on my hip. The resultant shock throughout my body knocked my knee right out.
My father dislocated his shoulder this past summer but seems to have made a full recovery. He’s 76. If my 76-year-old father can return to normal activity, I hope Blair Betts can as well. Obviously, it depends on the severity of his injury, but if he can’t lift his arm above his head at all I have my doubts as to his effectiveness over the course of the season.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 14, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If my 76-year-old father can return to normal activity, I hope Blair Betts can as well.
You’re dad did it once. Blair has separated that shoulder six or seven times in his life.
if he can’t lift his arm above his head at all I have my doubts as to his effectiveness over the course of the season.
He wasn’t supposed to lift that arm over his shoulder back before the Flyers signed him.
by MarioD on Dec 14, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Pittsburgh
|
71 | 42 | 24 | 5 | 89 |
|
New Jersey
|
70 | 42 | 24 | 4 | 88 |
|
Philadelphia
|
70 | 37 | 28 | 5 | 79 |
|
New York Rangers
|
71 | 31 | 31 | 9 | 71 |
|
New York Islanders
|
70 | 29 | 32 | 9 | 67 |
(updated 3.19.2010 at 9:06 AM EDT)
Flyers Schedule
Next 5 Games
|
@
Atlanta
|
Sat 03/20 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
Atlanta
|
Sun 03/21 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Ottawa
|
Tue 03/23 | 7:30 PM EDT |
|
Minnesota
|
Thu 03/25 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Pittsburgh
|
Sat 03/27 | 1:00 PM EDT |
Last 5 Games
|
@
Dallas
|
Thu 03/18 | W 3 - 2 |
|
@
Nashville
|
Tue 03/16 | SO - L 3 - 4 |
|
@
New York Rangers
|
Sun 03/14 | L 1 - 3 |
|
Chicago
|
Sat 03/13 | W 3 - 2 |
|
Boston
|
Thu 03/11 | L 1 - 5 |
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