Flyers Embarrased Again, This Time in Pittsburgh
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 15, 2009 10:41 PM EST
in 09-10 Game Recaps
121 comments
[Box Score] - [Complete Coverage] - [PIT Reaction]
November 16-18. That is the last time the Flyers won back-to-back games. A win over New Jersey, followed by a win in Los Angeles. The team has played fourteen games since then, going 3-11-0. Six points out of a possible 28. That's a point percentage of .214.
Who's still holding out hope that this team is a serious Cup contender? If it was worth it, I'd rattle off a ton of stats about how poorly the team has been playing, but that's an exercise in futility. The team can't score. They can't defend. They can't convert on the power play. They can't stay out of the box. They can't do a lot of things.
The final score doesn't even matter. Brian Boucher let in 6 goals - the last one weak - but he again deserved better. Three goals were scored on blasts from the face-off dot or below during a rush. Unacceptable. A few were rebounds - Guerin's first could be considered a weak goal, but I didn't see an angle showing where the puck was - where the Flyers blew the coverage.
Nothing else matters. The team lost. Again. So, we'll just cut to it.
After the jump, assorted thoughts, Comment of the Night, and Questions with Answers. I'll spare you the "highlights" since a) I'm against torture; and b) the audio is just as bad as the video.
- There was a great discussion in the game thread on how much we all hate Pittsburgh sports fans. It was more enjoyable than the game. The start. (There was a very fractured discussion on the same subject here as well.)
- Communication and awareness in the defensive zone are clearly lacking. There was a miscommunication between Coburn, Richards, and Carter which made all three look pretty bad, and then Pronger got caught staring at the puck while the goal scorer skated right past him to an open net. Both were atrocious.
- Fresh off his suspension, Dan Carcillo was probably the best Flyer on the ice tonight. One goal, one (rightfully) overturned goal, and a decisive win over Craig Adams. Oh, and an amazing celebration back when we almost thought that maybe the Flyers might have a chance.
- As pointed out by MarioD, Cote played a mere 0:31 tonight. And believe it or not, that was TWO shifts. His first was cut short by a fight after six seconds.
- Six out of 7 Flyers finished the night 50% or better in the faceoff circle. Only Danny Briere failed to do so, and he only took one draw. Richards, Giroux, and Pyorala were all over 60% on the night, going a combined 65% in the dot.
- Only two Flyers did not finish the night a minus. Obviously, you can guess one of them is Riley Cote. The other? Ryan Parent. 18:23 of ice time, not one goal scored while he was on the ice. Not even a PP goal.
Questions with Answers:
- Is there any carry over from the Scott Hartnell biting/Kris Letang whining incident that happened when these two teams met back in October? A little. Some pushing and shoving, some boos from the crowd, but nothing major.
- Can the Flyers keep the intensity up from last night in Boston? No.
- Is Braydon Coburn still injured, and are the Flyers rushing him back so Danny Syvret doesn't see the ice? Conspiracy theorists would say yes. Hell, even I say yes.
- Power play... yay or nay? Nay.
- The Pens PP has been struggling, but they've revamped it. How's the Flyers PK respond? By laying down.
Comment of the Night:
The flyers are like the titanic... They look good until they hit the ice.
Now, I'm sure I left a lot out. But really, "it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care."
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Girlfriend’s got an 18 month old. We made a bet. Flyers win the classic, She buys her daughter one of them little toddler sized Flyers jerseys. Boston wins, I buy her a little Bruins jersey.
At least kids grow out of those things fast, right? …
Yeah. I love Lavi. I really do. And there are few players on the team I want to see gone. Cote and Briere would be about it really. But yeah. We’re not winning with any coach, and it’s not our Goalie’s fault. Ceckmanek anyone?
I’m not even pessimistic about it, I’m downright depressed. I can’t see a way we come out of this with a team I want to watch. Trade our most explosive player in Carter for a couple of picks and a player? No thanks. Best case scenario we get another JVR, who plays sub-star hockey after doing nothing in the NHL for 3 years.
Hartnell? Yeah. Lets get rid of the guy who randomly drops hat tricks in our lap, draws penalties, and pisses every other team off. Plus, he makes me laugh.
Coburn? He came back. Give the guy a fucking break.
In all honesty? Id like to see Richards traded. I’d take Marleau for him in a heartbeat and never look back.
by BroadStreetBully on Dec 15, 2009 11:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good luck dealing that contract.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 15, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with a lot of what you said, but disagree on Hartnell. He is my favorite player on your team…the Pens have learned to deal with his crap, and he is now good for at least a power play or two every time we play you guys.
by shafnutz05 on Dec 16, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great picture.
Sums everything up nicely.
During the 1989-90 season when the Flyers were collapsing in the second half of the season, Bob Clarke desperately tried to turn things around with a series of bad trades. During a loss at a home game, one fan held up a simple sign:
TRADE CLARKE.
Clarkie was fired in the offseason.
During our 5-1 post-Upshall loss to the Flames last March, a fan sitting near me yelled out, “This team can’t play defense. I know how to fix it! Let’s trade Upshall!”
I’m going to the game on Monday. Should I bring a TRADE HOLMGREN sign?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 15, 2009 11:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No, your sign should read the following
Stahl always goes glove side!
They brought their fucking toys!
Stick, gloves, shirt!
Hanrahan, your wife’s a dyke!
The machine ate my quarter!
I’m listenin to the fuckin song!
If I get hit I’ll piss myself!
I’m only here by the order of the State of Minnesota!
District 5!
etc
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Dec 16, 2009 12:23 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just a thought, I have been behind Richards and the Captaincy since this all started. This year, last year whatever when Marleau’s leadership was questioned, trade rumors surrounded him 20 G ,14 A, 3 GWG, let’s just say he sucked it up for the better of the team. Any chance of that happening here. I don’t get to see alot of games living in Iowa and being a Flyers fan, but when I do, I see a lack of effort, chances to clear the zone, dumbass icings and timely faceoffs lost. We burned a TO for an icing tonite for example. I missed the 1st period a 3-1 score and 3 fights. I’d like to give Peter a couple weeks to implement his x’s o’s, but sooner or later if this team doen’t perform somebody has to go. We gave up alot to get Pronger to help this team win a cup, there is not a lot of help on the farm right now nor will this draft be any better.
by Crosby sucks on Dec 15, 2009 11:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The team has completely imploded, how is it that we were kicking ass in the begining of the season, or at least we were consistent, and now there is no effort. I think the confidence has been completely eliminated, and IMO it draws back to our Goalie situation. Remember when Emery was playing lights out in the begining of the season? Then he started to suck and it all went to hell. If Emery can come back strong, I think it may be a resurgance for the team
by MalibuLSV23 on Dec 16, 2009 12:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hartnell
Still doesn’t get it….you can be taking stupid penalties (espec in the offensive zone). Let him play on the 4th line for a period on Thur. If it happens again after that, I think it is time for a visit to the press box.
by remarks44 on Dec 16, 2009 1:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
This team is absolutely horrible. Living in Australia, I get to see only a few Flyers games on tv. Unfortunately this was one of them. Did I turn it off when it was 3-1? 4-1? 5-1? Nope, I stuck it out because I don’t get to see another game until January at the earliest, maybe later since I don’t know until the monthly cable guide comes. My point is no matter now F*ing horrible this team is I stuck it out. We’re all doing that. Standing by and watching this team suck isn’t an option for us diehards, but MY GOD I wish they would do SOMETHING that would generate some wins. Hell, I wouldn’t even be this upset if they didn’t win another game the rest of the year as long as they played like they cared. No dumb penalties, play some good D, and SHOOT THE PUCK AT THE NET!!!
by Kanayd on Dec 16, 2009 5:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Off topic
Are you from Australia? Or are you an immigrant? I only ask because I am Australian (both my Parents were born and raised in and around Sydney). But I live in the States so catching Flyers games is a hell of a lot easier for me than you.
by flyrsfrk05 on Dec 16, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The goal celebration was classless. This isn’t professional wrestling.
by beatniche on Dec 16, 2009 5:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
It was no different then Talbot’s “shhhh”/finger to the lip in the playoffs after Carcillo beat him up. Interesting when players engage the crowd.
It just looks dumb now because the Flyers lost so badly.
by flyrsfrk05 on Dec 16, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
talbot’s i consider slightly different (potentially because of the result) but it was between two competitive teams in the playoffs. i’m not saying its smart, but really i draw some difference there.
i realize they are bitter rivals with history. there is animosity. the crowds are into these games. scoring the goal helps to take the crowd out of it somewhat, hopefully. i don’t particularly feel crowd participation is as massive an impact as some would believe, but it certainly can’t hurt to hush a stadium.
what carcillo did ensured that didn’t happen. it could be used as locker room material, incentive to defend your home turf and your fans. if i were the penguins, i’d come out after that goal hitting harder and being more aggressive. i’d be determined to cram it down their throats. i’d want to make Carcillo look as foolish as possible.
I think they achieved that.
by beatniche on Dec 16, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree but I really don’t think Carcillo’s celebration had ANYTHING to do with how badly the Penguins beat the Flyers.
by flyrsfrk05 on Dec 16, 2009 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Five game death march continues!
On Saturday they had five games in 8 days. Devils (4-1 Loss), Bruins (3-1 Win), Pens (6-1 Loss), Pens and Rangers. It was either five games to reclamation or Armageddon. Well it ain’t looking good. This clearly isn’t Laviolette’s mess, no he hasn’t turned it around , but it was like this when he got here. With the schedule they have coming up and virtually no practice time in between games it could keep snowballing. This group has to cowboy up on their own or it is over. I don’t think trades are going to help things. We are really going to see in the next month who should stay and who should go. I just hope they don’t start making horrible trades for short term success because if Holmgren blows this we are could be another three years away from being three years away. I just can’t believe such a promising group of players got to this point. Man they make it hard to be a fan of this team sometimes and I have been hanging around since the seventies.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 8:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Versus
Almost as infuriating as watching the Flyers ‘play hockey’, is listening to whoever the f**k that color commentator on VS. was last night. Seriously, could he have slobbered all over the Pens any more?
Season is over, I think. At some point, a ‘slump’ becomes a lost season. I think that point was last night. God damn it.
by KevinEdward on Dec 16, 2009 8:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it’s lost yet….if you guys get blown out again tomorrow? Then possibly. Don’t forget, the Penguins were in 10th place with a brand new rookie head coach in late January/early February last year. It’s a long season.
by shafnutz05 on Dec 16, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Flyers have to do something if they lost on Thursday. I think that if they get blown out again that the trades will begin. The announces said that there were a lot of scouts at the game again.
Somewhere John Stevens is laughing
by SkookFlyerfan on Dec 16, 2009 8:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I doubt Stevens is laughing, I expect him to be looking something more like this…
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
But seriously, not here to troll. These are my favorite games of the year…to be honest, I am shocked at how poor the Flyers are this year. Talking to some of the Philly fans here in the office (I work in Bala Cynwyd), pretty much everyone agrees that Hartnell has become a liability with little upside, and Briere’s $8 million contract was a boondoggle on a large scale.
As a strict Pens fan, I admit to taking pleasure in any Flyers misfortune. But as a fan of this rivalry, I would like to see the Flyers playing well again….hopefully tomorrow night’s game is a lot closer with the Philly crowd livening things up a bit! And now that Crosby is averaging about 2 points a game in his career against the Flyers, maybe the “Crosby sucks” chants can be replaced :) Good luck!
by shafnutz05 on Dec 16, 2009 9:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, we’re certainly not going to say “Godard sucks.” That’s common knowledge. “Crosby sucks” has nothing to do with the guy’s skill. It’s his attitude. Notice no one in Philly chants “Malkin sucks” because we find a lot more to respect about the guy. At least I do.
The Flyers-Pens rivalry has always been one-sided. Either the Flyers have been the dominant team (1974-89, 1995-2005) or the Penguins have (1990-94, 2006-present). Just how it goes.
The only reason people harp on Briere is his contract. If they have any issues with his play then I don’t know who they’re watching. I’m starting to agree about Hartnell, though. If we could trade him for someone who plays a similar style but who plants himself in front of the net more often, I’d be fine with that. He works hard, and his “stupid” phases – like he’s going through now – always pass sooner or later. But we need him to play like Knuble, and he really isn’t that type of a player despite his size.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 16, 2009 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Without getting into a long, drawn-out argument, I can’t understand the Crosby hatred anymore. Don’t get me wrong…when he came into the league 5 years ago, he definitely had a sense of immaturity about him. And yes, he did whine….a lot. But over the past few years, he has developed into a much more mature player, and one hell of a leader. The guy is CONSTANTLY doing charity work, visiting the children’s hospital in Pittsburgh, doing other visits, etc. When he does interviews, he is the picture of modesty, and doesn’t have any sense of snobbiness or ego.
Believe me, I can 100% see why Crosby was not well-liked when he first came into the league. But he has changed a ton over the past couple years, and I for one am thankful for it. If you want to talk about a brash player with a lousy attitude that hasn’t matured since he entered the league, maybe we can talk about the #8 :)
by shafnutz05 on Dec 16, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is good for Crosby. Eric Lindros followed a similar trajectory in his career. Flyers fans constantly had to defend him over the years, even after he had grown up some. No matter what we said, other fans did not listen.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 16, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How about the fact that he took a run a Brian Boucher late in a blowout hockey game last night?
You can’t see why that makes him look like the pussy hockey player he is?
by MarioD on Dec 16, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Loved to see Giroux do the same to Fleury only minutes later.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like Richards did to Fluery last game at the end.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean when Fleury lunged out of the crease to interfere with Giroux, and they maybe glanced shoulders?
by MarioD on Dec 16, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Be that as it may, Giroux, like Crosby (despite what the Vs. Announcers may think), did not attempt to avoid Fleury.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crosby can clearly be seen cutting back into Boucher as Boucher was off balance in the act of standing up..
Giroux is skating across the slot and Fleury jumps out in front of him.
There was nothing similar about the two plays.
by MarioD on Dec 16, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus…..most of the posters here are EXTREMELY knowledgeable and well-versed…but are you kidding me man? I will grant you that Crosby clipped Boucher…but Boucher proceeded to go down like he just got shot with a .50 cal. I can make an argument for 2:00 for interference….but to say that Crosby “took a run at Boucher” is ridiculous.
“The pussy hockey player he is”….well that just shows that you have an irrational hatred/fear of Crosby, and even if he turned water into wine and cured the diseased, you would still think he was a “pussy”.
by shafnutz05 on Dec 16, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then you clearly didn’t see what happened.
Boucher was getting up from his knees, all his weight was on his right leg in that act, and Crosby’s skate went between Boucher’s feet and pulled out Boucher’s right (weight bearing) leg. He didn’t sell it at all.
by MarioD on Dec 16, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Versus announcers were both laughing at Boucher’s acting job. I am sure you will say that is because VS. has a vendetta against the Flyers, so we will have to agree to disagree. Do you remember when Richards actually DID run over Fleury at the end of last game, and proceeded to land on top of him in the net? Was that a “run”?
by shafnutz05 on Dec 16, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The versus announcers also couldn’t comprehend why the Pens took a penalty for taking a run at Ryan Parent after he touched up an icing call.
Richards did the same thing Crosby did several times in the postseason. Now all of a sudden its a problem?
by MarioD on Dec 16, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just go away. You obviously are too biased to see plain video, so go back with all the other bandwagon fans who are content to pretend the Penguins earn everything the hard way.
by MarioD on Dec 16, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough. It is impossible to have a good conversation about hockey with fans like yourself. The classic Philly insult….if you don’t like the other team, just call all their fans “bandwagoners”. I also like how you managed to squeeze in the argument that the only reason the Pens won the cup last year is because it was handed to them, and they don’t earn anything the “hard way”. Please don’t tell me you buy in to the grand “Gary Bettman Conspiracy Theory” as well? I am sure you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, but it’s a shame. I know so many Flyers fans that can actually resist the blind, crippling, bitter hatred that consumes people like you on a constant basis. There’s therapy for that, you know….
by shafnutz05 on Dec 16, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, congrats to you. Must be awesome to have nothing better to do than troll on blogs dedicated to other teams.
by MarioD on Dec 16, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2009020038
Forgot to mention, Richards got penalized for that play. So you’ve merely made my point for me. Thanks.
by MarioD on Dec 16, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
MarioD +1 to you nice job here, Crosby is a pussy he won’t fight Richards if you are going to run around and take cheap shots drop the gloves Richie isn’t a goon and he should just man up and drop the gloves but no he rather throw a punch over a pile of slew foot a goalie before he faces off man to man
by chrislanci on Dec 17, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that was a penalty – crosby made no attempt to move out of the way – the vs. commentators = doc (devils all the way) and that other guy who i think is an ex-pen… last year openly admitted he hated the flyers.
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t we own that station can’t we do something about that?
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the Caps commentators are way more diplomatic and un-bias because comcast signs their checks.
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont understand why they cant just broadcast from CSN for Flyers games. Like the NHL Network does with games they show, they have say the FSN from the home team i guess broadcast. If Vs. wants to do games thats fine, but for a network owned by a cable company that owns a hockey team, you would think that they would want their own guys doing the game.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
they are playing the game of fair commerce and not monopolizing the airways with orange and black. maybe they like the flyers being on the cross – who knows
6 times out of ten directv costumers like myself are getting screwed out of HD flyer games because of comcast
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not saying to do that, they already have their games schedule set. All i am saying is that when they have the flyers scheduled to play on that network to have the flyers broadcasters do the game.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this team just sucks. I hate to sound like some ignorant WIP caller, but theres no other way to put it now. going through a 10 game losing streak like in the past is one thing, thats a sign of a potentially good team struggling. being unable to build off a solid win like mondays against Boston and put in two good games in a row for an entire month is the sign of a bad hockey team. maybe we should just follow the Pittsburgh guide to building a contender and suck for 10 years so we can stockpile a bunch of number 1 draft picks. although given the contracts weve given to some of these players any real form of rebuilding doesnt seem to be possible for another 5-6 years.
This is Holmgren and Bob Clarkes fault (they have the same mind). How many trips to the penalt box is it going to take for them to realize that the broad street bullies mentality doesnt cut it anymore. How many pointss does a flashy European forward like Malkin or Ovechkin need to score against us for Holmgren to realize that good players can be found ouside of North America? Dating all the way back to the ’97 finals the Flyers have consistently been beaten by teams that are faster and more skilled then they are. our inability to beat Pittsburgh is a perfect example of this. Their faster than us so we commit penalties because we cant keep up with them. then we send that lethal power play onto the ice 5-6 times a game. how can you expect to win a game when your spending almost an entire period killing penalties.
This team lacks an identity. Holmgren wants us to play a physical forechecking brand of hockey but were not big enough to overwhelm teams and were not skilled enough to do so without comitting penalties. Laviolette wants us to play a fast paced offensive scheme but were not fast enough to do it succesfully. This team is rotting from the inside out
by njh3293 on Dec 16, 2009 9:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Holmgren wants us to play a physical forechecking brand of hockey but were not big enough to overwhelm teams and were not skilled enough to do so without comitting penalties.
It’s not that they are not big enough or skilled enough, its that they dont do it. The “Dump-and-chase” method generally employed in the flyers offense has the dump part down, but not a whole lot of guys who do the chase part.
Their passing has been horrendous in every zone. Last night more than half the time the puck was in our defensive zone it was either just poked out and turned over to be brought right back in or a cross ice pass blocked and turned over.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How many pointss (sic) does a flashy European forward like Malkin or Ovechkin need to score against us for Holmgren to realize that good players can be found ouside of North America?
You’d have more of a point if you replaced “European” with “Russian.” Remember, the Flyers were the most Finnish team in the league last year. Their problem is that they’ve had little success when venturing outside of Scandanavia (which, somewhere along the line, Finland became a part of).
This is yet another reason why I feel Ed Snider’s influence has become detrimental to this team. The actions of his GMs in part reflect his own prejudices. What Russian players have we had around here? The one guy we were planning to have for a while – Tertyshny – tragically died. With the exception of Dmitri Yushkevich, the “wheat” we’ve had from Russia was only short-term (Zhamnov, Markov). The rest were “chaff” (Andrei Lomakin, Slava Butsayev, Andrei Kovalenko).
Meanwhile, some of the best players of the past 20 years have been guys with names like Ovechkin, Malkin, Fedorov, Semin, Bure, Khabibulin, Fetisov, Konstantinov…
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 16, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i was mainly focusing on Russians but really it is Europe as a whole. Sure we were the most Finnish team in the league last year but who did we have? Timonnen, Nittymaki? Im sure there were more but either way its still not much.
My main point is that all of our “stars” (needs to be in quotes more than ever right now) are cut from the north american two way forward mold. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but we simply lack the raw skill and speed possessed by the teams that are consistently beating us. sure guys like Carter have speed but its only in one direction, he lacks the agility and acceleration that other players have. Guys like Briere and Giroux have excellent hands and stick skills but rarely do they show the ability to fly through the neutral zone and break down a defense.
I guess im kinda asking for the impossible as there are only so many Kovalchuks/malkins/etc.s out there, but it just seems that the organization has been very Pro-North America biased and we consistenly get beat by teams that are not.
again, theres nothing wrong with the physical two way brand of hockey (the Ducks won the cup playing this way just a few years ago) but it just seems like the Flyers have stuck to the same gameplan for 30 some years and it hasnt lead to a cup. whats the old saying? Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results…
by njh3293 on Dec 16, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of the players mentioned,
names like Ovechkin, Malkin, Fedorov, Semin, Bure, Khabibulin, Fetisov, Konstantinov…
First, Ovechkin and Malkin were not available to the flyers because they were selected before our first pick.
Khabibulin and Konstantinov were 9th round picks.
in 2002, they picked Pitkanen with their first pick, semin being chosen later that round, he was really the only one of the players you mentioned that the flyers could have picked at a comparable time in the draft.
Theres something to be said about the fact that there a a lot of top tier Russian players in the league, but that is not the only place there is that kind of talent.
The flyers may be biased in where they decide to scout, but I dont think you could look back at the drafts over the last 10 of 15 years and tell me that there was a Russian player available when our pick came around that you would have taken over the selection made.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We picked Mike Ricci in 1991 instead of Jariomir Jagr. It’s 18 years ago, but still valid…
by Hatt the Moople on Dec 17, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What Russian players have we had around here?
Danny Markov
Veleri Zelepukin
Alexei Zhamnov
Dmitri Yushkevich (drafted by the Flyers)
Denis Tolpeko (rights still owned by the Flyers)
Just to name a few.
by MarioD on Dec 16, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Richard's Comments
I heard this morning on WIP that Richards was stated as “Questioning the team’s heart.” Can we stop with the same bull crap to the media Richie? I mean, if you’re going to question the heart of the team, why not take every player individually and ask them if they thing that losing is ok. If their answer is anything other than emphatically no, then they should be reevaluated as a member of this team.
I understand that you can’t go undefeated, but that’s not an excuse to come out flat in games, or to not go at 100% every shift of every game. Almost nobody on this team backchecks hard if they get caught, multiple times every game I see a flyers shooter miss the net and the puck goes out of the zone with 2 or 3 men caught deep and they just turn to watch.
If a player is giving less than 100% effort every second he is on the ice, and the behavior cant be changed, he needs to go.
Briere has looked ok to me, he has been flying around the ice making plays, the energy guys (Asham, Lappy, Carcillo) always look like theyre going at full speed, Pronger has been as good as expected, Timonen is playing hurt, Bartulis has looked solid as well.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 9:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know what to make of Carcillo. One minute he is being a boneheaded goon, the next minute he is playing with a purpose and getting solid scoring chances. Let me tell you, it hurt seeing him get that goal last night…of all people, he is the last one I want to see score (or possibly Hartnell)
by shafnutz05 on Dec 16, 2009 9:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont care who scores, honestly. Yeah you’d rather see some guys in a slump who may just need one to get hot and turn the team around, but it never hurts to see that puck go by an opponent goaltender into the net no matter who is credited with the G.
One minute he is being a boneheaded goon, the next minute he is playing with a purpose and getting solid scoring chances.
You say this about Carcillo, but think about it and tell me that this doesn’t also describe Hartnell.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is very true….lately however, it just seems like Hartnell is playing the goon side of things. Can someone tell me what exactly happened with Carcillo’s goal celebration? All I heard was he scooped up ice and was right next to the boards celebrating in the fans’ faces, but didnt hear much else.
by shafnutz05 on Dec 16, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He glided in to the boards hands in the air and just stayed there kind of goading the fans on. Not much more than that.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If anyone else did that like say Alex “my stick is on fire” Ovechkin all the talk would be I love his energy and his passion for the game he seems to be having fun out there, but because it is Carcillo it is spun to the negative as a classless act. No matter what Carcillo does it is wrong. I couldn’t watch the 3rd period as I am on suicide watch, did Carcillo get a penalty when Fedotenko boarded him, I am surprise dhe didn’t.
by chrislanci on Dec 16, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ovechkin is a 1st class douchenozzle, I don’t think anyone will disagree with you there (at least in Pennsylvania). I personally didn’t have any problem with Carcillo’s celebration, although I thought it was a bit stupid. If anything, all it did was fire up the Pens.
by shafnutz05 on Dec 16, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Pros get fired up by stuff like that we think in a fan mindset and that gets us fired up but do Pros really need that get going in such a rivalry game I don’t think so
by chrislanci on Dec 16, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I heard this morning on WIP that Richards was stated as "Questioning the team’s heart." Can we stop with the same bull crap to the media Richie?
No, the same “bull crap to the media” was “As long as we win more than we lose, we’ll be fine.” And who’s to say that he isn’t talking to his teammates more now? Remember, he pulled Carcillo aside after the Washington debacle. After his suspension, Chico Carbombs has been the Flyers’ best player.
I’m not feeling the Richards hatred here. He’s trying, and he tries every game. Sometimes he tries too hard and makes mistakes. Some of his more skilled teammates are not exerting the same level of effort, and that is the difference.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 16, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, fine. Maybe they are starting to try to work things out, but to me it just sounds like another excuse. And as I said to shafnutz, I don’t care who scores, but when Dan Carcillo is the flyers best player with names like Carter, Richards, Giroux, Briere, van Reimsdyk all dressed for that game, that is not a good sign for the team.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I will also qualify my opinion with the statement that no further detail was given about Richards’ comments on the short news break. So I may be taking what he said out of context.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am very disappointed that Hartnell spurned Rupp’s advances last night….that would have been a great fight.
by shafnutz05 on Dec 16, 2009 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Spurned his advances? Did Mike Rupp ask him on a date?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 16, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Hartnell told him he already had plans with Letang. They were going out for a finger food dinner.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant this to be a reply to bfrank.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
flyers couldnt get lucky last night besides the carcillo goal. hartnell pisses me off – take the shot you goon. how about pronger and carle chucking the puck back and forth behind the net – here, you take it, no you take it… goal – pens. like playing hockey with the marx brothers.
the first pens goal sums up this horrid game, full slap shot deflected right into sid’s shooting area. call it luck – whatever… but he was in position to score whereas the flyers put themselves in ridiculous situations, playing out of position, center or shoot the puck when no one is in the slot. lavi has cut off their balls and now we are just as boring as the canes are… merry f*ckin christmas
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 10:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
To defend the team a little bit, it seems that a LOT more bounces have gone in a direction which affects the flyers for the worse this year, and I don’t just mean rebounded shots. Passes get deflected and hop over sticks leading to odd man rushes, the puck starts rolling on a breakaway causing not as much as a shot on goal, deflected shots rolling just wide away from the net in our offensive end, or just into it in our defensive end, pucks hitting the goalie in a bad spot and popping loose when it seems it is covered up. A lot of things are going wrong this year, some of it is the players fault, some of it is just bad luck.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The behind the net play is representative of the fact that this team can’t even break out of the defensive zone. Our defense is behind the net and the forwards are already in the neutral zone. This is why we give up the puck in our zone so often and the Pens have a great transition game. They just jump on the lack of a break out and put the puck in our net. This team has actually been doing this for two years now.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Our defensemen in that situation should just ice the puck. Lift it all the way down and force those forwards to skate all the way back down to our zone. I mean, if were going to give away goals, we should at least make them earn it with a faceoff win.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
flyers transition was pretty darn good two years ago (and half of last year). remember when richy would just bury it? his rugged style and quirkiness was a thing of flyer beauty. pens took our mojo is how i see it. they consider the flyers a stepping stone, which is a compliment but who wants tire tracks on their back?
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But Richie stealing pucks on his own is not transition. That is the winning on talent thing not team system. It is like Iverson thinking he was a defensive player because he would steal balls while really being out of position to be playing team defense. (Don’t kill me on that one I don’t know the difference between a basketball and a soccer ball.) The team wasn’t and still isn’t creating turnovers in the offensive/neutral zone and coming back 3-2 or 2-1 consistently with success. That is what the Penguins and other successful teams do to us and have been for a while.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They are also not winning board battles for the puck in any zone
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea someone mentioned the dump and chase but they just forgot about the chase part.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh- they chase – but the puck escapes them
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was me who mentioned it, they lose the battles in their defensive zone too though, and int the neutral zone. Like the puck and the flyers sticks are magnets with same poles.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
boston game – richy steals puck at blue line – goal – example of the golden years
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I thought you guys could appreciate some humor in an otherwise dark day for Philly. I am sure tomorrow’s game will be a lot closer (as a matter of fact, I am certain of it). Best of luck tomorrow evening!
by shafnutz05 on Dec 16, 2009 10:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
BOTTOM LINE Can’t score, can’t win simple as they they still have only 2-3 loses this year when they have score 3 goals or more. The team still lacks an identity but the thing that is puzzling is how well they played two months ago where did all the offense go. I still think Carter, Richards and Giroux are a great set of centers to build a team around. This team has become completely east west no one will go to the net. Look at those Pens goals simple hockey 2 guys go at the net and the puck carrier takes a shot not to score but to get in into traffic. Slumping team is try too hard to score on the perfect shot not going to happen just hit the shot and go to the net.
Either way though that game would have been hard to win regardless back to back road games Boucher has played in back to back 18 times in his career winning both games only 3 times. Thursday’s game is key, a day to rest and at home I expect a much better effort.
by chrislanci on Dec 16, 2009 10:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think it is a little more than just not scoring at this point. They are so out of it both positionally and transitionally that they aren’t really blowing good scoring opportunities. And when they were successful this year and last it was more of a case of winning in spite of themselves. That is what is so frustrating. They are a talented team no question but without the fundamentals this is what the losing looks like. And unfortunately they either can rest for mental health or practice their asses off trying to get the system down and the basics back on track. It is a bad position.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There seems to be a poor chemistry with the whole team as well. Pronger and Carle are the only ones who are working well together, and thats because pronger is directing carle. Parent should be with Timonen, not Coburn with Timonen. The offense is badly out of sync with one another on almost all lines.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree about carle and pronger having chemistry. the experiment is over, carle is losing it… pair pronger and timonen – like they did in the waning minutes of the boston game, thats the best defensive pairing.
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Pronger and Timonen are the best pairing, but it is also true that Pronger makes Carle better when they play together. Unless you can have 20 and 44 on the ice for 60 minutes, it is better to have each on at different times for 20-25 minutes instead of both for 25-30 minutes.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone think Pronger is looking a little gassed lately or is just the byproduct of the losing?
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think hes probably frustrated. He came here expecting to be on one of the top tier teams in the league. The team is floundering and he is answering a lot to the media while not wanting to “step on Richards’ toes.” You can tell he wants to do well and influence the team, it just seems that hes sick of losing and is frustrated that he as one player cant do a whole lot about it.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sure- that is reasonable – and this has been the case but it isnt working… the timonen and coburn pairing has been a disaster. carle will be fine without his mentor. parent isnt having a good year either
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I said to break up Timonen and Coburn. Player Parent with Timonen. Mix in Coburn with Pronger and Carle or roll 5-6 interchangeably. Go with a rotation so everyone has a few shifts with everyone else then stick with what is working best for the rest of that game change it up when it doesnt.
by bfrank27 on Dec 16, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i totally agree – change up the d pairings. but stick with single combinations for a while and use your shut down pairing in key moments
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holmgren
If this team fails to make the playoffs Homer would be fired I am sure and if so I am assuming Hextall will be taking over, or at least I hope so. Enough with the Bobby Clarke comments already how he gets blamed for this is beyond comprehension this all goes back to Pelle Lindbergh’s death everyone should know that.
by chrislanci on Dec 16, 2009 10:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Don’t say that, please. I am tired of past player retreads in this organization. We need a Ray Shero here not a past goon/mediocre goaltender who’s biggest accomplishment was beating someone up in a playoff game. He is an assistant to a GM that laid the ground work for what you are seeing in LA before he got there. Maybe Hextall in 3 years. Holmgren was enough of an insult. Clarke was my hero growing up but he was not a great GM. He still has his finger on this because they are still looking for a real goaltender, still paying Rathje, and still trying to intimidate people instead of out skating and playing them as a team. Enough sugar coating the past it has been since 75 and really any of the close attempts were more about luck and heart rather than talent and serious contention.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure it was hyperbole, but I’d say Hextall’s greatest accomplishment was winning the Conn Smythe while losing the Cup.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 16, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was on a roll of retreads at the time almost like Germans bombing Pearl Harbor.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 16, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
mikefive that was a reverse joke right. How young are you?
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
33. Your joke didn’t hit me right away. It’s been that kind of a day.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 16, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Man, I’m in my forties you can’t let this bother you that much it will drive you to drink.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve always thought it’s only a matter of time before Hexy’s the GM.
by Ben Feldman on Dec 16, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
we should blame clarke – the worst season in flyer history ring a bell? isnt rathje technically still on the payroll…
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
he collects a check but doesn’t effect the payroll in anyway before the cap we carried a 90 million Payroll we can afford Rathje hush money don’t worry
by chrislanci on Dec 17, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and that was three years ago Clarke didn’t sign Jones for 3 million per, and Lupul for whatever the hell he was making like 4 million per or something or fumble the Knuble resigning we could have gotten him cheap on the cap with generous Vet bonus money and sign the guy for multiple years worst case you buy him out all on Homer stop with Clarke he ran this team to one of the highest winning percentages in all sports and if it wasn’t for the greatest goalie of all time Brodeur or the Great One 99 we probably would have one a cup or two by now
by chrislanci on Dec 17, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
trade Hartnell
I can not take his horrible penalties anymore. He has heart he has speed but chooses to take horrible penalties. the coach should never have been removed it falls to the players and they are not playing. It is not the goalies they have played well. Pronger I am sorry has been unimpressive for the price. Bottom line Carter and Richards aren’t scoring. We miss Knuble like no other person we have nobody who stands infront of the net and gets trash goals.
by whosyourjockey on Dec 16, 2009 11:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
can’t argue with that. knuble and lupul equal over forty goals a year… replaced with carcillo/hartnell/Van/giroux… final tally 40 goals between the four of them?
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Knuble and Lupol were replaced by Briere and Giroux. Who already have 17 goals, about a third of the way into the season.
So you’re 100% wrong.
by MarioD on Dec 16, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i forgot about danny, point being who is our knuble, carcillo played that role last night, hartnell before. i would say danny and claude play lupul and gags roll… we need one more piece of the puzzle -
btw – im 100% right
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and where is that power forward now? we dont really have a goal scoring power forward that plays on the wing.
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s supposed to be Hartnell.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 16, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but… we’ll just have to wait and see on hartnell -
by fitzy first on Dec 16, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like fitzy said, yeah but.
When Knuble was on the power play, he stood in front of the net the whole time. Hartnell seems to play from the corners.
Hartnell is their “goal scoring power forward that plays on the wing”, but he’s not the same as Knuble. Also, it’s hard to say he replaced Knuble since he played the entire season last year.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 16, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good news
Blair Betts will return to the lineup tomorrow vs. Pittsburgh. Simon Gagne and Darroll Powe will likely remain out at least one more game.
[From the Flyers Official Twitter]
by flyrsfrk05 on Dec 16, 2009 12:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cote
Me and my GF love two things, Flyers and Pokemon, so we decided to go through the roster and describe each player as a pokemon. It was rather hard, but one player was so easy, Cote! He is Magikarp, he is so fucking useless.
by JpH89 on Dec 16, 2009 12:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I am left speechless and somewhat dazed with confusion. Thanks for the brief escape from reality. What is a pokemon?
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, Magikarp would turn into a very usable pokemon, Gyrados. If i were to characterize Cote as anything, it would be a pokemon whose only defense is self destruct
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Dec 16, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, but does Cote win any fights to gain the EXP to evolve???
by JpH89 on Dec 16, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Now that is the question, “Does Cote win any fights?” Answer being no.
by M from Pdaddy on Dec 16, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Pittsburgh
|
71 | 42 | 24 | 5 | 89 |
|
New Jersey
|
70 | 42 | 24 | 4 | 88 |
|
Philadelphia
|
70 | 37 | 28 | 5 | 79 |
|
New York Rangers
|
71 | 31 | 31 | 9 | 71 |
|
New York Islanders
|
71 | 29 | 32 | 10 | 68 |
(updated 3.20.2010 at 8:14 AM EDT)
Flyers Schedule
Next 5 Games
|
Atlanta
|
Sun 03/21 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Ottawa
|
Tue 03/23 | 7:30 PM EDT |
|
Minnesota
|
Thu 03/25 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Pittsburgh
|
Sat 03/27 | 1:00 PM EDT |
|
New Jersey
|
Sun 03/28 | 7:00 PM EDT |
Last 5 Games
|
@
Atlanta
|
Sat 03/20 | L 2 - 5 |
|
@
Dallas
|
Thu 03/18 | W 3 - 2 |
|
@
Nashville
|
Tue 03/16 | SO - L 3 - 4 |
|
@
New York Rangers
|
Sun 03/14 | L 1 - 3 |
|
Chicago
|
Sat 03/13 | W 3 - 2 |
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