Goodbye John Stevens? Flyers shutout again, 3-0
by Travis Hughes on Dec 3, 2009 10:01 PM EST
in 09-10 Game Recaps
98 comments
[TSN Recap] - [Boxscore] - [Vancouver Reaction]
The Philadelphia Flyers haven't scored a goal in eight periods. They're getting chances, but the fact of the matter is they simply can't put the puck in the net. Why not? Quite honestly, it doesn't matter. They aren't getting it done. They knew they needed to win this game tonight. They had four full days to prepare for it. Losing, especially via a shutout, is absolutely unacceptable. There's no other way to put it.
Yeah, they're having a closed door meeting at the Wachovia Center right now as this is written, according to 610 WIP. But is it too little, too late? They're running out of options. The top lines aren't doing anything. Arron Asham was the best player on the ice tonight and that says a lot. He played a pretty good game, but when your best players aren't your best players and your role players are consistently the ones putting in the most quality shifts, you aren't going to win.
And eventually, it's going to get your coach fired. Is that the fair move? Up for debate. But you can't fire the players, especially when just about all of them are under performing. As we wrote the other day, when things are consistently going wrong, the coach is the scapegoat. It doesn't matter who is actually to blame.
It doesn't matter that Jeff Carter looks absolutely lost on the ice. It doesn't matter that the defense can't make one good outlet pass. It doesn't matter that Mike Richards is trying to do too much with the puck, often ruining plays by over-thinking. It doesn't matter that the power play can't seem to do anything right, making fans groan instead of cheer when a man advantage is announced at the Wachovia Center.
The Flyers did have 38 shots tonight and Roberto Luongo did have to put in a good game. But that's pretty misleading. Many of the shots were simple to stop. Philadelphia failed miserably at getting in front of the net and disrupting Luongo, and he had an unobstructed view of the puck for just about the entire night.
In the end, a lifeless offense and a lifeless team made a hockey game seem like a funeral. And for the Philadelphia tenure of one coach, that metaphor could quickly become the truth if his team can't snap out of this funk.
After the jump, questions with answers and the comment of the night.
Questions With Answers
- Can the Flyers get to Luongo and the Canucks early? Nope.
- Can the special teams get back on track? Nope.
- How many hot dogs are consumed? Dollar dog night again... A lot. 16,000 something about halfway through the game. Don't care about the total number, honestly.
- How many jokes get made at the expense of Jim Jackson's bald upper lip? It was loud in the room I watched the game in, so I didn't hear much of the commentary. If someone else wants to answer this in the comments, go right ahead.
Comment Of The Night
i think the flyers need more cow bell
>> phish'n
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Well, I shouldn't rub it in, but...
I think Jack said it best…
Ok, ok..seriously though..the Flyers need a few breaks because they have none right now. Those will come. At the same time..it looks like (beyond Asham tonight) they need a shot of adrenaline
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 3, 2009 10:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Do you not know to poke Philly fans in the midst of losing streaks? Things are getting ugly around here.
by doubleh on Dec 3, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True story.
We’re blood-thirsty.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 3, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think they are going to turn it around and kick some ass. With a roster like that..they’ll be alright. Just hang in there
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 3, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know. We’ve been through this now for the last two years. The team is maddeningly inconsistent. It’s deeply flawed.
by doubleh on Dec 3, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gave me a smile. Thanks, haha.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 3, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Almost made me smile. And nothing made me smile tonight.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 3, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Flyers D-Zone draws: 5/16. They did better in the O-zone, with Carter, Richards, and Briere going 11-17 there.
JVR only took three 2nd period shifts.
Richards getting into a fight late second period of a tie game is moronic. I have no idea what he thinks he’s accomplishing. There wasn’t some terrible amount of momentum behind Vancouver, there wasn’t a cheap shot to avenge… unless he realized that Asham was doing his job and thought he should return the favor it was just a terrible decision.
Kimmo’s hook and Pronger’s fight were the only acceptable penalties they took. Kimmo’s interference was stupid. Pronger’s slash was horrendous. What the fuck Briere ia doing spearing people is beyond me.
There’s a very simple way to tell if the Flyers PP is going to create scoring chances: If they pass the puck to the point, scoring chance. If they blindly throw the puck in front of the net, the zone will be cleared.
by MarioD on Dec 3, 2009 10:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
blind passes to noone have been a major problem of this team for…oh…three years now. something that a coach worth his weight in water would have probably picked up on by now and devised some clever method of instruction in order to teach his players not to fucking do that anymore. and the best part is it doesn’t matter where they are on the ice- defensive zone attempting to clear, offensive zone looking to center from the corner, neutral zone trying to throw the pass dangerously cross-ice in order to avoid a backchecker- the flyers do it all! let the turnovers flow.
by eeeeee on Dec 3, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are blind passes, but there are an equal number of forced passes where they see the slot is full and do it anyway because the player with the puck doesn’t have anywhere else to go with it.
But there are times when they could send that puck to the point instead and reload.
by MarioD on Dec 3, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For a team that is struggling to score why did JVR on get 12 minutes of ice time. In the 1st he had a couple of good chances and is one the better offensive players on the team.
by chrislanci on Dec 4, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn’t agree more – I thought Richie’s Fight – aside from getting his ass kicked, was awfully stupid on his part. While I empathize with his frusteration, we need him on the ice and playing offense not in the box for 5 minutes.
by SanDiegoScraps on Dec 4, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think bad penalties are the sign of desperate play? Richards, since the hit on whatshisface (I seriously can’t remember his name at this moment—I’m getting old), is a completely different player. They are panicking.
by doubleh on Dec 3, 2009 10:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
David Booth
If that is true, then maybe he’ll welcome a change in captaincy.
You can never fault Richards for lack of effort. But he’s trying too hard and making mistakes.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 3, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Richards’ fight is him panicky because he doesn’t know what else to do as captain (which is why he shouldn’t be captain, if true).
Pronger’s slash is just dumb. Kimmo’s interference was an instinctual play, but one he knows better than to make. Briere’s spear was lack of discipline.
by MarioD on Dec 3, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Briere’s shown quite a lack of discipline lately which is probably more frustration than anything else, but a veteran like him should know better.
Unfortunately, I’m starting to think more and more than Richards should no longer be captain right now. Emphasis on right now.
by doubleh on Dec 3, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He has taken a number of discipline penalties in the last month. I really don’t get it either.
by MarioD on Dec 3, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Playing down to the level of his teammates? Just kidding.
by doubleh on Dec 3, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At least someone is showing frustration and anger, us fans are and I am glad that the some players are too. Get mad and pissed off I will take that over last years it is only one lose attitude any day of the week.
by chrislanci on Dec 4, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the first time the Flyers have be shutout in back to back games since 2003 per John Boruk.
by doubleh on Dec 3, 2009 10:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the only reason why I flap my gums about hanging in there us because what you guys are seeing now is how the Canucks were in October. It will come to pass quicker than you think.
Anyways, good night, all.
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 3, 2009 10:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good night.
Thanks for stopping by.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 3, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Flyers are not done yet… and by far – the nucks are no where/no how – a consistent team…
by fitzy first on Dec 4, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The game thread is closed but I want to address this:
Why did the same roster of Rockies players suddenly play better when the jettisoned Clint Hurdle?
Because Tracy brought in a completely new “system”. Mainly he informed his starters they’d be pitching way deeper into games and left them in games longer than Hurdle ever did.
Same thing for the Penguins last year when they changed coaches.
Why does this matter? Because John Stevens can change the system himself. Back to his system instead of Paul Holmgren’s.
by MarioD on Dec 3, 2009 10:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Right...
… then we can stand around in our own end and wait for the puck to come around the boards to us. Meanwhile, the opposition can steal the puck from us while we’re standing there and get a few scoring chances.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 3, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes! That’s exactly how a defensively oriented system works!
by MarioD on Dec 3, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what we did last year, and we got outshot every night.
The players may not have been doing a good job with what Stevens had in mind for them, but something had to change.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 3, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, not sure how you can have a puck you are waiting to get to you be stolen from you.
by MarioD on Dec 3, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t explicit enough.
Many times, we’d be standing there waiting for the puck to come to us regardless of how quickly or slowly it was coming up the boards. The pucks would be intercepted by the other team resulting in scoring chances against.
Alternately, someone from the other team would be right on top of us as soon as we had the puck and we’d turn it over, resulting in scoring chances against.
That happened all too often, and it had to stop.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 3, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stevens may not be completely at fault for what happens on the ice (lack of goals) but the bottom line is it’s his job to get the guys to play their best and win games. He isn’t doing that. His system doesn’t work, and hasn’t worked since day one. Too much inconsistent playing over the last couple years and they can’t blame it on the goalies or the lack of defense or bad breaks or whatever else they came up with since he’s been head coach. They’re out of excuses. He’s got to go. This is unacceptable and I’m disappointed in this team.
by Kanayd on Dec 3, 2009 10:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
His system doesn’t work
But this is the system that Paul Holmgren, in June, demanded they play. It’s not the system Stevens wants to play.
by MarioD on Dec 3, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So then why isn’t he switching over to the new system? Is he afraid he’s going to get fired if he goes against Holmgren? His head is on the block anyway,
by doubleh on Dec 3, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’ve been saying this for awhile now, that this isn’t Stevens’ system. Yeah, Homer wanted a more up-tempo style. But that isn’t what they’ve been playing. What about the system has changed from last year that shows this is in fact Homer’s? Just because Homer called for a more up-tempo style of play doesn’t mean a) he had anything to do with teaching the players the system; b) told Stevens what his system is exactly; c) Stevens implemented it; or d) the players are executing it.
The same problems they had last year, they have this year. All the criticisms above (blindly throwing pucks away; waiting for the breakout; backing up at your blueline; dumping the puck in) were the same criticisms last year. I don’t see how the system has changed at all.
I just have a hard time believe that Homer’s call to play more up tempo makes this now “his system”, leaving Stevens off the hook. The “system” didn’t work last year – which is why Homer even spoke up in the summer. If you have evidence that Homer has been secretly coaching this team through Stevens, I’d love to see it. Otherwise, this is Stevens system, whether Homer told him to be more aggressive or not.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 3, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn’t have said it better. All of the problems that exist this year, existed last year, and the year before. Nothing has changed. Not one person on this team has actually improved in any problem area, (which is what I thought a coach’s job was) and some have even gotten much worse (see: carter with his uninspired here-one-game-gone-the-next style of play and coburn, who i don’t think has turned in more than two games this year where i haven’t been screaming his name at the tv accompanied by fuck word after fuck word).
by eeeeee on Dec 3, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It wasn’t about up-tempo, it was about attacking. And about defensemen joining the rush.
And they clearly are doing that more than last night.
by MarioD on Dec 3, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand how going back to a more defensive system (that didn’t work last year) is going to help us score more goals this year.
by chrislanci on Dec 4, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Hartley no to big on Keenan what do you think of Gretzkey (sp) or the possibility of Mr. Flyer Bobby Clarke taking the reigns.
by chrislanci on Dec 4, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kimmo unsurprisingly has been playing injured — broken toe… has had it for the past four games, apparently.
by Ben Feldman on Dec 3, 2009 10:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not shocked at all.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 3, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He is the man.
I don’t get how you have guys like him on the team – and added players like Lappy and Pronger – yet somehow this attitude is not infectious throughout the locker room.
I’m not pointing the finger at Stevens or any of the players for that; I just don’t get it at all.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 3, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Attitude and Discipline has changed
Two main problems that were to be addressed in the offseason were discipline and attitude.
Last year this team didn’t come to play and took losing way too lightly, effort was there and has been there the last few games they just look completely lost. How many times did we hear need to play a complete 60 minutes that has not been the case this season. As for discipline the Flyers have gotten more PPs then their opponent in in 4 out of the 6 last losts and outshoot their opponents in each of those games. These two trends are drastic changes from last year.
What hasn’t changed is that the Flyers under John Stevens have never been good enough 5 on 5 and have relied too much on the PP to score goals when the PP goes bad his teams can’t seem to find a way to score. I rather have a middle of the pack PP and be better at even strength that is how you avoid streaks.
by chrislanci on Dec 4, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Craig Berube and Joe Mullen are good special-teams coaches. That is why our PP and PK have been good.
Even strength scoring is another story. That’s on the head coach (not to mention the players).
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 4, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
attitude is important but
talent is more important and the flyers don’t have it… lots of good players but no real statrs… no dominating top line center… weak at right wing…
by Elmo the faithful fan on Dec 4, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think John Stevens is a good coach for a rebuilding team without the high expectations we need someone who can coach under the pressure of stanley cup expectation each year. I am not sure who is available I like the idea of Laviolette but he hasn’t coached under much pressure either Islanders and Canes are not exactly pressure cooker jobs, but I always liked the style Caroline played with an think that style would suit our roster well.
Are there any other big time coaches out there?
by chrislanci on Dec 4, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Craig MacTavish, Mike Keenan and Bob Hartley.
by Ben Feldman on Dec 4, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please stop mentioning Mike Keenan.
If the Flyers hire him I don’t know what I’ll do.
Here’s what would happen: Everyone on the team above 30 would play for 40 minutes a night. Van Riemsdyk, Giroux, and all the younger guys we need to develop would ride the pine. Meanwhile, Emery would play every game for the rest of the season and be toast by the playoffs. Keenan would give bogus explanations as to why he was doing this. And the inconsistencies would remain. No wonder Robyn Regehr said that the game had passed Keenan by.
That’s what happened when he coached the Flames for the past 2 seasons. Now he’s gone. The Flames now have a real coach (Brent Sutter). They are playing a system more suited to their talents AND to today’s NHL, and they are in first place in the tough Northwest Division. They just set a club record by getting points in 10 straight games.
If the Flyers expect to make a positive change by replacing the coach, Mike Keenan is the LAST place they should look. He would be a disaster.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 4, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you are right about keenan
the problem with the team is talent… they just don’t have a top line center… they are weak at right wing… its not stevens fault that they don’t win… you need top talent to win in the nhl… “good” is not “good enough”… the flyers are deep in good players.. they are just not good enough!!!
by Elmo the faithful fan on Dec 4, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just to echo what Travis already said in the story, it’s absolutely ridiculous that Asham was the best player on the ice. He wasn’t just the best player, he was the only player (other than Boucher until the 3rd goal) who played well. He had at least 4 quality scoring chances this game. It’s incredible how many players seemed to just be gliding around out there. Props to Asham. He certainly deserves it.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 3, 2009 10:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I know this is a bad losing streak for a team that is on papaer as good as the Flyers, but this is hockey teams/players. They’re streaky. They don’t need a new coach. Stevens does a nice job. He can only do so much. The players have to play up to their potential. There’s no crazy new coaching style that is going to make this team better. These guys are professional athletes. If they need a coaching change to get fired up, then they don’t deserve to win.
by Will21 on Dec 4, 2009 1:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
in your opinion, of what value is any coach to a team?
by beatniche on Dec 4, 2009 6:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Needs to be mentioned that Pronger calmly and cleanly eviscerated a three on one breakaway. It was damn impressive.
by MarioD on Dec 4, 2009 1:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hey guys. I swear, I’ll eat a hat if the Flyers aren’t rolling by the Olympics. That is all. Good night.
by Sean Zandberg on Dec 4, 2009 4:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
You'd best find a delicious hat...
… unless we have a new coach by then.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 4, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
CanuckTV
I got the CanuckTV broadcast on my Center Ice package last nite. It was fun listening to some pretty good hockey knowledge – AND NO COMMERCIALS. Anyway, they came up with some zingers last nite that had me chuckling – “non-Flyer-like” and the best “its Canucks 3 and Asham 0”.
They also went on a 10 minute rant about who the next coach for the Flyers would be, like it was a done deal. They talked about Berube and whether he was ready or not.. Ferraro said something like “Laviolette is sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring”…
by stubborne on Dec 4, 2009 9:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Dreger has also mentioned on TSN that Berube’s getting some consideration. That would be just as much, if not more, of a disaster than Keenan.
by Ben Feldman on Dec 4, 2009 9:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m kind of suprised there isn’t a post dedicated to new coach speculation yet.
Who’s it gonna be?
Berube?
Holmgren temporarily?
Laviolette? (doesn’t that sound like a fancy bathroom item?)
Paddock?
The zombiefied corpse of Herb Brooks?
Charlie Weis?
by Phalange on Dec 4, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The ghost of Badger Bob
Jim Fregosi
Jim O’Brien
Lee Elia
Terry Simpson
Delbert Grady
John Stevens, run through a supercomputer and spat back out as Tron Stevens
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 4, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As the or one of the most positive members of the BSH I have about had my fill here with the coach. My problem is that when the team is lacking confidence the coach doesn’t instill confidence. Things are not bouncing the Flyers way right now yes but instead of just going letting the players play and simplify things roll 4 lines Stevens panics as he always does and starts mixing up line pairs trying something new juggling combinations, the forwards can’t develop any chemistry because the lines have been all over that damn place from the start of the year. The players are clearly thinking too much and gripping the sticks too tight.
Top load your top two lines this should have been done immediately after the Gagne injury. Giroux centering Asham and Carcillo is a waste Claude playmaking skills and Mika yes has been a solid 3rd line defensive type forward with good forechecking but he adds absolutely nothing on the offensive side and shouldn’t be out there with Richards. Last year it was Richards Gagne Knuble and Carter Hartnell Lupul all year long this year our most consistent line has been the Carcillo Betts Lappy line why is that because they have played together the most consistently.
Can we please get a few games where Richard and Carter have the same wingers and develop some chemistry. He left the Coburn Kimmo pair together despite early season struggles and the other D-pairs have been set all season but the forwards look confused and lost.
by chrislanci on Dec 4, 2009 10:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
more frustrating
What is even more frustrating is how good this team was playing before the losing streak. WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED
by chrislanci on Dec 4, 2009 10:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Easy, our PP and PK stopped functioning. Everyone knows we can’t score very well 5 on 5. LIke you said with the mixing of lines they cna’t build any chemistry. I’ll say it again, Poor Boosh, he’s playing great and all he gets are losses.
by SkookFlyerfan on Dec 4, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stevens Stat
From John Boruk via Twitter
Interestingly, John Stevens is 2 games away from tying Paul Holmgren for 3rd place for most games coached in Flyers history.
I also find it hard to believe especially since he hasn’t done anything to deserve the 2nd longest tenure as head coach in this team’s storied history.
Here is a dark horse BOBBY CLARKE Mr. Flyer himself goes behind the bench, great story line he built half this team and if he can’t light a fire under this team nobody can. Or maybe The Great One, number 99 owes this city at least two cups from ones he prevented in the 80’s.
by chrislanci on Dec 4, 2009 10:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
No thank you to Clarkie OR to Gretzky.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 4, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If they are going to stay in house which the always then Clarke would be my choice, not that I think he would want the job. Say what you will he is one the smartest hockey people in the world. He drafted JVR, Richards, Carter, Gagne and Giroux those are the guys we need to get going and he HATES and hates my not even be a strong enough word to Lose. Even trying to steal Kessler away from Vancouver I don’t think many people at the time though he was going to be as good as he turned out. If you think this streak is a leadership thing than Mr. Flyer is the perfect guy to turn it around. He is almost 60 years old but some old school but old school simple hockey with an attitude is what this team needs.
by chrislanci on Dec 4, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Paul Holmgren drafted JVR. Clarke only drafted Giroux because Bobby Sanguinetti was no longer available. Richards and Carter were two fine choices in a draft class full of winners. No one could have screwed up in the 2003 draft (except the Rangers).
I idolized Clarkie as a young child. He still played until I was about 8 years old. I cried on Bobby Clarke night. No more, though. Much like Keenan, the game has also passed him by.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 4, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was at Paul Holmgren’s last game as Flyers’ head coach. We lost 9-3 to Pittsburgh (oddly enough, on Black Friday). During the last minute of play in the third, the whole Spectrum was chanting “Paul must go!” over and over again. Management got the message.
It seems to me that the outrage has moved from the arena to the blogosphere. It needs to move back.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 4, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the crowd definitely wasn’t happy last night. But the difference between your story and last night’s is this: “During the last minute of play in the third” there were only about 5,000 people left. And we – I think we, I couldn’t hear anything but myself and the guys in front of me – all booed from the final 10 seconds of the game until they got off the ice.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 4, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I definitely heard that on TV.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 4, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was me, I was the guy booing the who 3rd period lol, but I get to say I saw Stevens last game as a coach.
by JpH89 on Dec 4, 2009 8:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I haven’t really felt this way in a long time, but there were seasons in the past, when watching a flyers game, if the opposition scored, I knew we were losing. Regardless if there was 2 periods left or 2 minutes left.
Last night for the first time this season, I had that feeling. At 0-0 halfway through the second, I thought, if the Flyers let a goal in now, they are toast.
I don’t know who is to blame for that, but I imagine it’s definitely time for Stevens to go. Richards maybe to get the A again and Carter to spend a night in the press box until he shows some fire on the ice.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Dec 4, 2009 11:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Wanna take another shot at that predicting which eight teams make the playoffs in the East?
by MarioD on Dec 4, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still haven’t moved off my 4-6 in East prediction. The Pens last year were in even worse shape just prior to the trade deadline and look how that turned out.
If you look up at the standings, you can’t honestly believe that the Rangers through the Hurricanes is better than this team.
Caps through Bruins are just about right. That leaves Atlanta, Ottawa, NYI, Lighting and Philly battling for 3 playoff spots. I am not ready to say this team isn’t the most talented of that bunch.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Dec 4, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Pens had a lot of cap space, though.
by MarioD on Dec 4, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so that’s your response?
Unlike Pittsburgh, we don’t have holes to fill per se. They clearly needed some bodies to play with Crosby. We don’t have needs that cap space is going to fix.
We have consistency and leadership issues. The pieces are here, we just need someone to get them working together.
And you still didn’t address if you honestly think that whatever glaring holes you think we might have, that this team isn’t better than Atlanta, Ottawa etc.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Dec 4, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You said the Pens were in worse shape before the trade deadline last year. My point is, they were also able to fix their team by adding players. The Flyers don’t have that ability.
Are they more talented than those teams? Yes.
Are they a better “team”? No. Absolutely not.
This is a haphazardly assembled team with no semblance of an identity. Is it a defensive team? Is it an offensive team?
You can play an attack style offense if you have a bunch of attack style players and a strong goalie to erase mistakes (think Penguins). You can play a defensive, counter-attack style system if you have good defensive players and you can use a weak goalie in that system (Think Red Wings).
The Flyers have a weak goalie, an attack system, 2 lines of scorers and 2 lines of checkers.
What they don’t have is a cohesive team.
by MarioD on Dec 4, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot to add:
Talent wins early season games. As the season moves on, teams get better and better at playing their system and gelling as a cohesive unit.
The Flyers haven’t done that, and thereby have regressed to the mean (or below the mean, as the case may be).
by MarioD on Dec 4, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but it’ s December. There is still plenty of time to develop what you asking for. The Devils a few seasons ago were in 10th at the end of December and came together as a team and made a tremendous run to win the Atlantic.
Everyone wrote them off that year too.
It’s not too soon to panic, definitely, but to think this team is a non-playoff team is a little premature.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Dec 4, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Develop what?
You can’t “develop” four centers into two centers and two wingers.
You can’t “develop” a destroyed shoulder into a healthy one.
And you can’t “develop” a mediocre goaltender into one that can erase all of those problems.
by MarioD on Dec 4, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And young players can’t “develop” certain areas of their games over time, right?
Will Carter and Richards always be lousy on faceoffs? Will Powe always be a defensive liability? Will Emery always be stuck in a rut? And will you lace up your skates any time soon to show the Flyers how it’s done?
The answer to all of these questions is a resounding NO.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Dec 4, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carter and Richards have been lousy on faceoffs for four years. That ain’t ever going to change.
Powe is not a good player, that ain’t going to ever change.
Emery has, over his career, proven himself a mediocre goaltender.
Zebras don’t change their stripes.
by MarioD on Dec 5, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Flyers are stuck in a brutal loop
constantly looping, like some crappy gif file of jack boy looking insane…
why does the PP not want to take a breath with the puck and move it around like they use to? any moment of a settled situation, they take a bad shot… forcing the puck instead of setting up something.
why do our forwards cycle the puck during the PP? and why do we dump and chase? it doesnt work if you are a man up to be stuck in a one on one situation behind the net.
I think Paul took the wind out of our sail by tinkering with the roster these past two years. Remember the chemistry? it’s gone for now… umberger gone… upshall gone… salary cap… all for danny boy, who might be a bust- consequently making the decisions made to this point – awful mistakes…
by fitzy first on Dec 4, 2009 12:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
no more Danny Bashing
Danny’s contract came 1st it wasn’t lose Umberger sign Danny it was lose Umberger sign Carter and Danny is still performing near a point per game as a Flyer of the 3 FAs discussed that year Chris Drury, Scott Gomez and Danny despite missing an almost all of last year he has scored 113 pts as a Flyers, a healthy Drury as scored 123 as a Ranger and Gomez scored 140 pts between NYR and the HABS. Enough with the Danny bashing it is getting old. Upshall would be nice to have this year yes only signing Homer has to regret was Randy Jones that contract cost us both Upshall and Knuble and he isn’t even on the team.
by chrislanci on Dec 4, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there is in no way any bashing in my comments
by fitzy first on Dec 4, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a bust
I don’t see how you can call Briere a bust at this point. He’s had some injury issues, yes, and his salary cap hit/contract is large; but when he is on the ice and healthy, he is a game changer. He is one of the only guys on the team who works his ass of night in/night out.
The contract is not his fault. Blame Holmgren or blame the system. The Flyers offered it and he took it. You would have done the same. He could have gone to Montreal for more money but chose Philly.
You can blame a lot of guys this season for seemingly underperforming, but not Briere.
by doubleh on Dec 4, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hey- ive got nothing against briere – when he’s on the ice…
by fitzy first on Dec 4, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Flyers are a medicore team!!!!
As a result of dumbass moves and poor draft choices… they have no one who is a true top line center… lots of good second line talent but that’s not good enough… richards, carter, jvr, giroux, timonen, pronger… all good but not top tier… too bad… they should have dumped briere and kept upshall… umberger…. lupol… sbisa… knuble… time to clean house… get rid of holgren… its a management issue…
by Elmo the faithful fan on Dec 4, 2009 3:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Upshall, Lupul and Umberger were top line talent? What am I missing?
Briere is a top line center who isn’t playing center. Carter had 46 goals last year and could be on the top line on just about any team, even though he isn’t playing all that well right now.
Pronger isn’t top tier?
It may well be a management issue because certain guys are not playing their natural or best position or not playing in a system that best benefits their skill set (a lot like what happened with the Pens last year when the coaching change occurred a new system was implemented). But to say the players are mediocre is ludicrous. They are playing mediocre hockey. It’s not the same thing.
by doubleh on Dec 4, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Upshall, Umberger, Lupul, Sbisa, and Knuble. That’s “top tier” while Richards, Carter, JVR, Giroux, Timonen, and Pronger aren’t? Seriously? Sbisa isn’t even in the NHL, and if you look at any of the other’s stats, they don’t compare to who he’s criticizing as not being good enough.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 4, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Talent level is definately not what is holding this team back.
by philiafan14364 on Dec 4, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Pittsburgh
|
71 | 42 | 24 | 5 | 89 |
|
New Jersey
|
70 | 42 | 24 | 4 | 88 |
|
Philadelphia
|
70 | 37 | 28 | 5 | 79 |
|
New York Rangers
|
71 | 31 | 31 | 9 | 71 |
|
New York Islanders
|
70 | 29 | 32 | 9 | 67 |
(updated 3.19.2010 at 9:06 AM EDT)
Flyers Schedule
Next 5 Games
|
@
Atlanta
|
Sat 03/20 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
Atlanta
|
Sun 03/21 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Ottawa
|
Tue 03/23 | 7:30 PM EDT |
|
Minnesota
|
Thu 03/25 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Pittsburgh
|
Sat 03/27 | 1:00 PM EDT |
Last 5 Games
|
@
Dallas
|
Thu 03/18 | W 3 - 2 |
|
@
Nashville
|
Tue 03/16 | SO - L 3 - 4 |
|
@
New York Rangers
|
Sun 03/14 | L 1 - 3 |
|
Chicago
|
Sat 03/13 | W 3 - 2 |
|
Boston
|
Thu 03/11 | L 1 - 5 |
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