Philadelphia Flyers All-Decade Team
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 30, 2009 10:27 AM EST
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Since we're closing out 2009 and thus the decade - we like easy, round decades - we decided to jump on the bandwagon of decade posts. So here is our Flyers All-Decade team.
We mentioned this topic during our first radio show, and we finally got around to doing it. It took awhile and there were a few disagreements, but it wasn't hard naming most of them. Where they fell was the only real disagreement.
As you'll see, we actually came to a bit of a consensus - even if it took a little jostling.
Follow after the jump to see our picks.
Left Wing - Simon Gagne
In case you haven't guessed, Simon Gagne was the runaway favorite for the left wing spot - and for Flyer of the decade. Since the 1999-2000 season (the first in our decade), Gagne has played in 620 of the Flyers 820 games - 76%. His 492 career points ranks him 13th on the Flyers all time list, and his 244 career goals rank him 9th all time. Since he's the only Flyer who stayed continuously since 1999-2000 season, he certainly had a leg up on his competition.
Travis' take: The only player to play the entire decade with the Flyers. Gagne has played his entire career in Philadelphia, and while the latter part of the decade has been highlighted by injuries for him, Gagne has still scored almost 300 goals as a Flyer, all during the 2000's. Not to mention he kept the 2004 season alive in Game 6 of the ECF with that awesome OT goal.
Ben's take: The first of two no-brainers for me. Gagne was here for the entire decade, and was consistently explosive throughout. Big goals, big speed, big concussion issues. What more could you want out of a Flyer?
| As a Flyer |
GP | G | A | Pts | +/- | PIMS | TOI/G |
| Simon Gagne | 620 | 244 | 248 | 492 | 147 | 239 | 18:14 |
Center - Keith Primeau
Primeau's career was cut short due to injury, but it's hard to forget his impact on this team. Joining the Flyers in the middle of the 99-00 season after a holdout in Carolina, Primeau's arrival was a bit controversial. Coming over in a trade that sent fan-favorite Rod Brind'Amour to Carolina wasn't the easiest way to welcome him to his new team, but his 17 points in 23 games - adding 13 points in 18 playoff games that year - helped smooth things over. Of course, his epic 5-overtime game winner didn't hurt either.
Ben's take: The best Flyers captain of the decade, the most clutch playoff player the team had since like Reggie Leach. I was so enamored with his play in the 2004 playoffs that I actually deluded myself into thinking that he had a shot at the Conn Smythe despite not making the finals.
Travis' flip-flop: Mike Richards, 12-year contract, the future of the Flyers, the next Bob Clarke. Richards has been touted as the man that will carry this franchise to a Cup, hopefully sooner rather than later, much like Lindros was in the 90s. It hasn't happened yet of course, but Mike Richards is clearly the face of the franchise. (Could've just as easily made this Primeau, though.) [Eds. note: If you remember, Travis picked Primeau on the radio show, saying "he was an absolute monster in [the 2004] playoffs and he proved that he was a true captain in those playoffs. If it weren't for a few injuries they suffered on the blueline in that playoffs, I think the Flyers would have brought home a Cup, and Keith Primeau had a lot to do with it. Because of that, I would name him as my center on an all-decade team."]
| As a Flyer | GP | G | A | Pts | +/- | PIMS | TOI/G |
| Keith Primeau | 312 | 87 | 126 | 213 | 39 | 414 | 17:54 |
Right Wing - Sami Kapanen
Always a fan favorite, the 5'10", 185 pound Finn never shied away from anybody. Everybody remembers when he got crushed by Darcy Tucker, but how many remember him playing defense in the 2004 playoffs? There isn't much to say about Kapanen since he did everything on the ice, and he did it well. He wasn't usually flashy and there aren't many defining moments, but it never mattered with Kapanen. He earned the respect of Philadelphia because he always played hard, always did his job, and was willing to do whatever it took to win. Maybe an underdog choice, but he's who we went with.
Travis' take: I think it was Ben who brought Sami up on the radio and the more I think about it, the more I like the pick. He was a consistently strong player for five seasons, he was a class act all around, and as a member of the 2004 team, by far my favorite team of this decade, I have a stronger connection to him than I do with most others. I'm not sure if it's the monstrous hit he received from Darcy Tucker or if it's because I always rooted for him and was heartbroken when he retired, but Sami's always been one of my favorite Flyers.
Ben's take: If we were just picking two wings, Kapanen wouldn't have gotten the nod from me. But the right wing selection is pretty weak, so I'm happy to be able to give my boy Sami this high honor. Sami was around for a long time, and played well 'til the end. Here's hoping we get to see him in Vancouver.
| As a Flyer | GP | G | A | Pts | +/- | PIMS | TOI/G |
| Sami Kapanen | 311 | 44 | 66 | 110 | -34 | 70 | 16:50 |
Defense - Eric Desjardins
For someone who broke into the league in 1988, it's hard to see Desjardins as one of the best Flyers during the 2000's. But he did play in 6 seasons this decade, finally retiring after the 05-06 season. A 7-time winner of the Barry Ashbee Trophy as the Flyers best defenseman, Desjardins only won the honor twice this decade, but he should go down as one of the best Flyers defenseman of all-time.
Ben's take: Along with Gagne, the other no-brainer. Strong on both sides of the puck, and captain during a very tumultuous time for the organization.
Travis' take: He may have dropped off some in the tail end of his career, but Desjardins was obviously one of the best defenseman the Flyers have ever had. He was a consistent force for on the Flyer blueline for parts of 11 seasons, six of them in this decade. Seven Ashbee trophies kind of speak for themselves, anyway.
(That's always been a favorite of mine.)
| As a Flyer (2000's) | GP | G | A | Pts | +/- | PIMS | TOI/G |
| Eric Desjardins | 397 | 48 | 148 | 196 | 60 | 225 | 24:06 |
Defense - Kimmo Timonen
He may only be in his third season with the team, but there's no denying the impact Timonen has had on the blueline. A calm and steady defenseman is something the Flyers have for a long time - so maybe there's a bias here - and Timonen fits that bill perfectly. He's only missed 5 games for the Flyers, and while he's had a rough start to the season, he's still a plus-20 in his Flyers career. Much like his fellow Finn Sami Kapanen (the two own a controlling majority of a Finnish SM-liga team, with Kapanen owning over 50%), Timonen isn't flashy or often noticed. Quietly going about his business, Timonen is largely underrated - even in Philadelphia - which is truly a shame.
Travis' take: Yes, he's only been here for three seasons, but in those years, Timonen has established himself as one of the most important defenseman the Flyers have ever had. If you took Timonen out of the lineup, quite frankly, the Flyers would be screwed. He's the Desjardins of his time in the essence that he shows up every single night and you can expect what to get out of him. He doesn't do his job loudly, like Chris Pronger, but he does it effectively and better than just about any other Flyers defenseman of the decade.
Ben's take: Two and a half seasons isn't a lot, but he has been incredibly consistent, and was an All-Star to boot.
| As a Flyer | GP | G | A | Pts | +/- | PIMS | TOI/G |
| Kimmo Timonen | 195 | 14 | 93 | 107 | 20 | 122 | 23:43 |
Goalie - Robert Esche
This one was definitely a toss-up. In a field of mediocre goalies, Esche gets the nod over Martin Biron, Antero Niittymaki, Roman Chechmanek, Jeff Hackett and Brian Boucher. Seriously, any of them have arguments in their favor - Chechmanek in particular put up a .923 save percentage and 1.96 goals against average in Philly; Boucher backstopped the team to within a game of the Stanley Cup finals; and Biron took them to the Conference finals - but Esche backstopped arguably the best Flyers team of the decade and was better for longer than Brian Boucher.
You may disagree, and you may have a better argument, but Esche was the unanimous choice here.
Ben's take: Chico gets the nod from me over Boucher because of a decidedly longer stint at the #1 slot. Boucher at his best was better, but Chico was a starter on both sides of the lockout.
Travis' take: Brian Boucher. To me, it was kind of a toss-up between Boucher and Esche, considering both guys took the Flyers within a game of the Finals in this decade. Boosh's return at the end of the decade pretty much solidifies his spot for me.
A depressing picture, but one that stuck with me for awhile. Front page of the Inquirer, if I remember correctly.
| As a Flyer | GP | W | L | T | OL | GAA | S% |
| Robert Esche | 128 | 60 | 40 | 10 | 6 | 2.65 | .901 |
Second Team:
John LeClair - Mike Richards - Mark Recchi
Brian Boucher
Third Team:
Scott Hartnell - Jeremy Roenick - Mike Knuble
Chris Therien - Dan McGillis
Fourth Line:
Joffrey Lupul - Jeff Carter - Justin Williams
Honorable Mentions: Danny Briere, Michal Handzus, Scottie Upshall, Braydon Coburn, Joni Pitkanen, Martin Biron and Roman Cechmanek.
Basically, the Honorable Mentions are those just outside of the top 20 who were seriously considered - and in some cases preferred - but they are arguable. Feel free to argue your point. Who do you disagree with? Who do you agree with? Who did we leave out? Who should we have left out?
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I would have to argue for Mike Knuble over Sami at the RW Knuble played 4 seasons missed only 18 games playing one more game than Sami and he scored 114 goal and 107 assists f[r 221 points over twice of what Sami did. I love Sami’s heart and do what ever it takes for the team but Mike Knuble was great here and should have never been let go. Knuble also played a bigger role on the team as the top line RW for 4 seasons Sami was a role player on the 3rd and 4th lines if Mike was still here he would still be playing on the top line and PP units.
def not third team but...
its tough to say he was better than sami. Sami always just played the game, and played tough, but than again so did Knuble. Its tough to say but I do give the nod to sami because he did stay with the team until he was pretty much a 4th line player.
It’s crazy how young Gagne looks in that picture with Rico.
I think I flipped back and forth between Primeau and Richards like nine times while writing that paragraph about Richie, so, you know. Solid case for both, I’d say.
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Goaltender of the decade is like the who’s-who of tallest midgets in the circus. No wonder we haven’t won anything this decade. Looking forward to the next decade and maybe we get serious about the position. The millions this team frivolously spends for aging stinking players especially thirty-something, dinosaur-like defenseman lets throw some shekels in the crease. Don’t mind me I am just bitter from 35 years of futility.
Agreed but of all those goalies they have all had pretty much great 1-2 great years with the flyers. Nitty I have always liked the one year he got to start the majority, the team sucked but then again last year when he had a chance to break out he blew it. And he does look good in Tampa with a below average team and a terrible D. And booth Check and Boosh were good for us in the playoffs. I cant remember who was in goal the year that we played Buffalo and we couldn’t score on Hasek to save our lives, but that goalie kept us in for longer than we should have been.
Also, As for Primeau, he couldn’t hold Brindamour’s jock strap if it was tied to his hands and was never even one tenth as good as Lindros. That guy was a waste and other than that one overtime goal which meant nothing in the grand scheme of things, his entire career was expectations without payoff. Why would an organization like Detroit ship him to Hartford if they thought he was worth his salt. Lastly, on that guy, he should have never played another game in Orange and Black after that Brutus stuck one in Barber’s neck. Maybe Barber wasn’t the best but he deserved better from this organization especially at the hands of that mediocre underachiever. Primeau as the best center of the decade is another shining example of aimless futility this organization has shown in player personnel decisions.
Primeau was a horse!
remember this is the last decade not last 20 yrs. Lindros and Brindamour don’t qualify.
i’d rather have two Primeau’s than two Richards’. i really don’t understand all the hate towards him, its hard to find anything to blame the guy for. he almost single handedly beat NJD in 04 playoffs, was half the reason we went to Game 7 ECF vs. TBL and he took a voluntary pay cut after the lock-out. how can you not have complete admiration for him?
he didn’t lite up the scoreboard but he did everything asked of him and more! from the little things to clutch moments he was there. until Hollwegs p.o.s. ass put him down with a cheap shot.
if not Primeau, who would you say was the best Center?
you callin me a know-nothin? sir, i'll have you know i happen to know very little.
Please don’t confuse my issues. Unfortunately, he is arguably one of the best of the decade, that is the problem. My comparisons with Lindros and Brind’amour were for level of the bar purposes only. And, if given the choice, I would have rather had Brind’amour than Primeau. My complete disadmiration (not sure if that is even a word) for him really stems for him throwing Barber under the bus and the fact that he was not an elite level player. He was a malcontent with two other franchises before he got here and was touted as the next, if not better, Eric Lindros and he was not even close. We in Philadelphia lauding a guy like this is how low our expectations have become and it is a shame. If everyone likes him as a man that is fine, but as for our hockey playing legends, he is not one. Also, at age 34/35 was his career cut short?
Roman Cechmanek
With the great head save!
by philiafan14364 on Dec 30, 2009 12:24 PM EST reply actions
That was the one thing I fought for hardest—no Cechmanek by any means.
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Broad Street Hockey.
by Ben Rothenberg on Dec 30, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
The Cranium Carom! (Right?)
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 30, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Not winning the Cup
I think because we did not win a Cup that year we lost to Tampa Bay the early teams will never in Flyers history get the credit they deserve and we forget how much Roenick and Kapanen and some of the others did. The lockout also makes it seems like prehistoric times. They came so close and battles through so much. I really felt after the loss to Tampa Bay that the window had closed – and it had – though hopefully with strong young stars they can open it. Great picks.
by Fr. Orange and Black on Dec 30, 2009 12:28 PM EST reply actions
I’m aware. But he also spells his name with two u’s, so we’ll call it even.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 30, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
lol, ok. Sorry I offended you by screwing up the list.
I should have picked any of Jon Kalinski, Dan Carcillo, Denis Tolpeko, Patrick Thoreson, Kyle Greentree, Riley Cote, Geoff Sanderson, Denis Hamel, Triston Grant, Kyle Calder, Dmitry Afanasenkov, Josh Gratton, Ben Eager, Petr Nedved, Jon Sim, Brian Savage, Ryan Ready, Boyd Kane, Radovan Somik, Jamie Wright, Todd Warriner, Tomi Kallio, Donald Brashear, Guillaume Lefebvre, Vaclav Pletka, Jan Hlavac, Todd Fedoruk, Paul Ranheim, Ruslan Fedotenko, P.J. Stock, Kevin Stevens, Michel Picard, Dean McAmmond, Gino Odjick, Valeri Zelepukin, Mike Maneluk, or Craig Berube.
Because that wouldn’t have screwed up the list. No, you’re right.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 30, 2009 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
No, you’re right, ranking players over the last decade by position, and then screwing up the positions they played, in no way undermines the credibility of the other selections.
But, hey, it’s not like you’re on record criticizing another journalistic outlet for doing the very same thing.
May be a snarky question
But how did you guys split on Esche and Boosh, and then Boosh didn’t even make the second team?
Because I messed up.
Completely my fault. Fixed.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 30, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Sami Kapanen
Any guy who takes a slap shot to the goods, gets his cup shattered, nearly losses a testacle, and only misses one playoff game, deserves top team honors. I don’t know if he was the most talented RW of the past decade, but he was definitely a favorite. He was the one player that gave 110% everytime he stepped on the ice.
I guess he’s on the Norwegian Olympic squadron?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
whoops, big error on my part! Regardless Kapanen was great
by SkookFlyerfan on Dec 30, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
I would have to say this:
LW – Gagne
C – Primeau
RW – Knuble
D – Desjardins
D – Timonen
G – Boucher
Honorable mentions:
LW – LeClair
C – Roenick
RW – Recchi
D – Hatcher
D – Johnsson
G – Esche
Ten years from now, Richards, Carter, Giroux, et. al. will be on the list. But they haven’t really proven anything yet, other than the fact that they’re good at what they do.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
For what it's worth...
… it seems that Justin Williams is almost a retroactive nominee for one of the “Flyers of the decade.” He didn’t really come into his own until after the lockout.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
While true, he did play in 226 games for the Flyers this decade – more than Jeremy Roenick – and put up 115 points. Not great numbers by any means, but in looking for the 19th and 20th players to put on the list, we were short on wings. Handzus has better numbers, but for conformity sake, I picked wingers. And we were already short on left wings.
Basically, your point is taken, but he only made the list because of his position – Handzus would/should have been listed. I concede as much.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 30, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Recchi > Kapanen
after thinkin on it for a lil, i’d go with Recchi over Kapanen. for the sole reason that i believe skill and point totals should weigh heavier than heart and determination/dedication. Recchi had all 4….err…5. he has the skill, even at 41, his 123 pt season is the highest for any Flyer player still, right? definitively has the points. and who can argue the other 3 heart, determination and dedication?
that’s why in my opinion it should be switched to Recchi 1st Team, Kapanen 2nd Team
you callin me a know-nothin? sir, i'll have you know i happen to know very little.
recchi is a great player and person but i only disagree because of the decade. Recchi was great in the 90’s and good in (i guess) 00’s, and is still playing with success. But no on this all dcade team
The Recchi argument is interesting. Seeing as we made Primeau #1 center, my comments above still withstanding, and their number were comparable and even tilted towards Recchi
Recchi. GP G A Pts PIM
1999–00 82 28 63 91 50
2000–01 69 27 50 77 33
2001–02 80 22 42 64 46
2002–03 79 20 32 52 35
2003–04 82 26 49 75 47
Primeau
1999–00 23 7 10 17 31
2000–01 71 34 39 73 76
2001–02 75 19 29 48 128
2002–03 80 19 27 46 93
2003–04 54 7 15 22 80
2005–06 9 1 6 7 6
yeah but this is between Kapanen and Recchi. Primeau is a center. you could make an argument between Roenick and Primeau or Richards and Primeau, i would have to disagree though.
you callin me a know-nothin? sir, i'll have you know i happen to know very little.
I was comparing impact in statistics alone, not by position. I do agree with your Recchi over Kapanen opinion. 110 points in 311 games compared to 359 points in 392 games seems comparable? At least for this decade. But Sami did take that hit like a man and was helped off the ice and still played so I guess that has to count for something in Philadelphia’s long history of guts over success.
That OT in Toronto where Sami got crushed is possibly the most exciting 4 minutes of Flyers hockey I ever saw. I will never forget where I was how angry I was, then boom Roenick ends it. Friggin Tucker was allowed to go head hunting all series. Here a link to the majority of the OT and a great replay of Tucker leaving his feet. Same shit Kunitz and Cooke pulled last year against Timmo. We were so banged up after all those early decade Toronto series to gets past the next teams, Tampa Bay and Ottawa the year before.
It is amazing how the most recent events stick in people’s minds. To even CONSIDER naming Hartnell …
Anyway, the obvious player of the decade is Gagne, with 620 regular season games played for the Flyers, with 492 points and a 147 (!!!) over that span. I admit, once we name LeClair (290 GP, 223 pts, +45) the choice of left wings gets thin. And Hartnell has played 200 games (including this season) with 127 points … so I guess we can admit him to the list. BUT NOT LUPUL (especially since he’s a RIGHT wing, and only played 135 games) – I’d rather name Todd Fedoruk, who at least represented the Flyers on-ice 268 times. Here’s hoping JVR regains his touch and reaches his potential, so he can be tops for the next decade.
At center, your knee-jerk reaction to name Primeau (312 GP, 213 pts, +39) is heart-felt, but Richards (328 GP, 252 pts, +36) has already played more games and scored more points as well as being named Captain For All Eternity by the club. I call Primeau a close #2, with Roenick (216 GP, 173 pts, +55) in the mix and Carter (345 GP, 246 pts, +20) in consideration. I loved Handzus, but when we consider that Forsberg also played in the Orange and Black (however briefly) … and Briere’s -30 over 139 games isn’t impressing me, especially since Giroux is doing nearly as well points-wise (51 pts in 82 games) in his first few years in the NHL, and a LOT better defensively (14).
Right wing leads off with obvious choice Recchi (392 GP, 359 pts, +58 … can you beat those stats?), then Knuble (310 GP, 221 pts, +35), followed by Kapanen (311 GP, 110 pts, but a painful -34) and Williams (226 GP, 115 pts, +42). Upshall may have been a recent fan fave, but I don’t think 134 games get you named to the all-decade team.
Defense – depends on whether you go for stay-at-home types like Hatcher (203 GP, 33 pts, -18 on some rotten Flyers teams) and Therien (400 GP for the #2 ironman of the decade award, 62 pts, +54), the two-way types like McGillis (249 GP, 89 pts, +53) and Coburn (215 GP, 84 pts, +18), or the offensive defensemen who can also play well in their own end such as Johnsson (291 GP, 147 pts, +34) and Pitkanen (206 GP, 116 pts, +12), or my top choice for defenseman of the decade, Desjardins (397 GP, 196 pts, +60).
As for goaltenders, really none stand out. Cechmanek and Niittymaki played the most games, while Esche and Boucher had great runs (at times). I have to hope that the next great player in the system will be a goalie, because it has been a LONG run without one all decade.
Cool idea for a thread though, guys – I just spent hours poring over old stats considering my choices!
I have to hope that the next great player in the system will be a goalie, because it has been a LONG run without one all decade.
The good news is that the Flyers do have a top goalie prospect in the system named Joacim Eriksson. He’s 19 and from what I’ve read is considered to be the second best goaltending prospect in Sweden.
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