John Stevens, Jack McIlhargey Fired; Peter Laviolette Named Head Coach, Kevin McCarthy Joins As Assistant
by Travis Hughes on Dec 4, 2009 6:00 PM EST
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PrintUPDATE 8:01 PM EST: Comcast Sports Net confirms Peter Laviolette will take over as Head Coach of the Philadelphia Flyers. Kevin McCarthy is also replacing Jack McIlhargey as Assistant Coach.
It's been talked about for days, weeks, and even years around the Philadelphia hockey landscape. He's had his critics, who've said that he's not the right coach for this bunch, and he's had his supporters, who've said he's one of the brightest young hockey minds in the game. But after three seasons, none of that matters. Several sources have reported that John Stevens has been fired as Philadelphia Flyers head coach.
A press conference has been scheduled for 8 PM.
It's hardly surprising. The Flyers have clearly been under performing for some time now, and as we've said around these parts all week long, when a team with high expectations doesn't meet those expectations, the coach is always the fall guy. It doesn't matter if it's his fault or not, and that debate has also raged for some time now and probably will continue.
Stevens has been a lifer in the Philadelphia organization. Drafted in 1984 by the Flyers, his playing career was defined by a Calder Cup with the Phantoms in 1998. He'll be remembered in this town though for his coaching, winning another Calder Cup as Phantoms head coach in 2005 before being promoted after the lockout to the Flyers as an assistant coach. When Ken Hitchcock was fired in 2006, Stevens took over.
He's a smart hockey guy and a nice person, but in the end, he couldn't get this team over the hump. Now someone new will come in. Who will that be?
TSN is reporting that former Carolina Hurricanes bench boss is in line to take the job. Laviolette coached Team USA in the 2006 Olympics and coached the 'Canes to the Stanley Cup in the same season.
TSN has learned that the Carolina Hurricanes have granted the Flyers permission to speak to Peter Laviolette, who is believed to be Stevens' successor.
Laviolette will make his debut behind the Philadelphia bench on Saturday when the Flyers host the Washington Capitals.
This will be Laviolette's third stint as an NHL head coach, having previously been behind the bench of the New York Islanders and Carolina Hurricanes.
Laviolette was a guest on NHL Live this past week and spoke about coaching again. Here's the audio of that interview.
Laviolette knows Paul Holmgren, as they've worked together with USA Hockey.
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I’m sorry it had to come to this. Stevens is a good person. But it did.
Hopefully he’ll find another place to coach sometime soon; he’s a good coach for an up-and-coming team, which the Flyers really aren’t anymore.
That was quick. We won’t have much time to discuss replacement I hope we get some new blood in here, but I doubt it. Does Travis have a direct line to Homer?
I wish.
Reported first by Panaccio.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 4, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
They are done.
John Stevens was the only coach who could keep this bunch of idiots together. This team is going to disintegrate faster than the 2006-07 team did to start that season. Craig Berube? John Muckler? Fuck you.
And when they finish in the bottom of the standings they won’t even have their first two draft picks.
Paul Holmgren has proven, yet again, that he is a FUCKING IDIOT.
Please stop dealing in absolutes.
I know you were one of Stevens’ biggest supporters on here, and quite frankly I feel bad that he had to be dismissed.
What’s done is done. Maybe Laviolette will be the right guy to get this bunch over the top; maybe not. We just have to stick with this team and move on.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Why should I not point out the obvious?
I said when they wasted their cap space on Randy Jones that they were a team that couldn’t make the playoffs and no longer had to ability to make the necessary changes to make the playoffs.
This is just another step in the wrong direction because Holmgren both can’t and won’t make the roster changes that need to be made.
You’re right about this not being Stevens’ fault. But the team was refusing to play hard for the coach. I hate it, because that’s not Stevens’ problem, but I guess, after all, it is.
by memphisbrando on Dec 4, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
You’re right about this not being Stevens’ fault. But the team was refusing to play hard for the coach. I hate it, because that’s not Stevens’ problem, but I guess, after all, it is.
by memphisbrando on Dec 4, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Not to start a fight, but I do sometimes wonder why you follow the team at all, MarioD. Do you like ANYTHING about them? What’s the point of following a team if you have no hope in them whatsoever?
by doubleh on Dec 4, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Every fan base has em. I’ve seen people rag on Marc-Andre Fleury for winning a game 3-1, basis being he shouldn’t have let in that goal.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
I hope no one is ragging on Fleury after last year’s playoffs.
So… maybe Laviolette can be to us what Bylsma was to you guys last year? Wink wink nudge nudge say no more?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Fleury was awful in the regular season(He was on my fantasy team in the beginning). But yeah he is a beast in the playoffs and I really do like him even though he plays for the bad guys.
Yeah he got off to a rough start. Same thing the year before when he went down with the ankle sprain in November. But even in the 08 Finals when they lost to the Wings he really started to show what he was made of. He’s flighty at times and really has puck-handling issues, but there’s much more faith now than in years prior.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
Because I like the Flyers. I’ve said many times how pleased I was with the decisions they made up to and including signing Laperriere.
But I don’t have blinders on. They are a terribly constructed team and a handful of wins against inferior opponents didn’t change that fact. Before that streak, I predicted they’d do very well until their homestand ended and then be tested on the road, and that they would collapse if Holmgren hadn’t made changes before that road trip began.
He didn’t, and they did. Its not about “supporting” the Flyers, its about thinking for myself. And I can see that these are a littany of stupid decisions wrapped around one good move, which I praised him for.
Just out of curiosity...
… what are you going to do when the Flyers make the playoffs?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
a handful of wins against inferior opponents
We have been getting along lately but once again you drive me up the wall with your completely wrong blanket statements I have been saying for the past month that the Flyers have played against the 5th most difficult schedule in the league they do have 13 wins they played a few push overs Florida, Carolina, Boston but other than that that is about it so just stop with the inferior competition stuff already I am getting of tired of reminding you how wrong you are about that.
Raise your hand if you didn’t see this coming…….anyone?
Skip the Pitt, Move on down to Broad Street....
Philadelphia Flyers / Columbus Blue Jackets, 'nuff said.
To be honest, I didn't.
Even in spite of your team’s recent troubles, I thought that Stevens was the one person that could get them together and focused for their stretch run.
This looks to be a big mistake on Holmgren’s part.
Beer is good! And stuff!
Stevens is more of an assistant coach….I think. He’s like a Mom when you need a Father figure.
Skip the Pitt, Move on down to Broad Street....
Philadelphia Flyers / Columbus Blue Jackets, 'nuff said.
You got a point there, I mean he's no Hitchcock.
But he was pretty adequate for the most part.
As for that Father Figure you mentioned, who’s your idea of one? Probably not Laviolette, who is an unmitigated dope.
Beer is good! And stuff!
Just someone with more of a backbone…willing to call out players and make a statement. Stevens is just to relaxed, the Flyers’ players seem like a rowdy bunch so you really need that type of coach to put the foot down and get his players focused on the task at hand. This is just opinion.
Skip the Pitt, Move on down to Broad Street....
Philadelphia Flyers / Columbus Blue Jackets, 'nuff said.
That is what always bothered me
Stevens never commanded the vigor and respect that a Hitchcock does.
by chillicothe20 on Dec 4, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
umm
what about carter mister 46 goals turns the puckover every chance he gets the puck his passes are god awful they always seem to bounce over brieres or JVRs stick and passes it behind his back right into the 2 defensemen
Your right,
Carter is playing like shit too. Its really both there faults and some other top players. We can’t have our 3&4 lines outplay our 1&2 lines.
Interesting how two years ago the Caps fired their coach and then played Philly. Now the same thing happens for the Flyers.
This will probably be a good thing for the team. It worked for Wash, Pitts, and now it’s Philly’s turn.
ONE GAME ЯEMAINING NOW
“Iron” Mike maybe? Seems to be an old-school theme going on in Philly as of late….Peter Laviolette seems to be a decent choice as well…
Skip the Pitt, Move on down to Broad Street....
Philadelphia Flyers / Columbus Blue Jackets, 'nuff said.
side note
anyone else find it funny that under the picture and caption of John Stevens being fired there is a banner saying “We Are Hiring”
Skip the Pitt, Move on down to Broad Street....
Philadelphia Flyers / Columbus Blue Jackets, 'nuff said.
I guess Ed didn’t like that the other team was getting all the attention and press lately.
Just kidding.
This is a scapegoat move, pure and simple. Something needed to be done, but it’s really the players that are at fault here.
If by “up and down the roster” you mean only at center and defense… sure.
But most rosters also include goaltenders and wings.
Giroux and Briere are centers, so take them off your list.
Gagne can’t be expected to play more than half a season.
JVR is inexperienced so he makes dumb decisions and is not physically prepared for a full season
Powe is a defensive liability
Lapperiere, Carcillo, and Hartnell are all fine players for what they are, but that’s only 3 of 8 spots.
Giroux and danny both started there careers playing wing, and frankly I like giroux as a wing 10x more then as a center.
by JpH89 on Dec 4, 2009 6:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
As updated above, TSN is reporting Laviolette will take over.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?
The quotes above:
“We’re a team that right now, in my opinion, is not playing with the kind of confidence it needs”
“When you look at our team right now, I would say – without counting to the exact number or identifying names – we probably have a handful of players that are playing to our expectations. And that leaves an awful lot of players that have more to give.”
THATS WHY JIM RUTHERFORD FIRED LAVIOLETTE! Because Peter created the same problems the Flyers already have, and couldn’t solve them in Carolina.
He had also been there a number of years at that point.
Remember from that article I posted in the New York Times – NHL head coaches have a relatively short shelf life. Stevens coached here for just over 3 full seasons, and Laviolette coached at Carolina for almost 4 full seasons. The average lifespan of a coach with any one team is just over 2 and a half seasons if memory serves.
Not that this makes anything right, but it’s just business as usual in the NHL. We have no choice but to live with it and hope for the best.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I bet you every coach is fired more or less for those reasons. Stevens’ time here is up. A fresh face is coming in, hopefully.
by feelingkettle on Dec 4, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
Wow.
I thought the Canucks had a pretty good game last night, but after reading the comments last night and today, I guess this has been coming on for a while. If it is Laviolette, he is a pretty good coach.
I did have a question for you guys though…this guy is an outsider to the way you guys usually do it right? Don’t most guys get brought up from within?
Just glad you didn’t think about our AHL coach. Scott Arniel has been a revelation down there with young players.
Or would a young coach just be another fail? At least Lavvy won a Cup.
Peace
The earliest use of the word with the spelling we recognize today is found in "L'Acadie: or Seven Years' Exploration in British America" by James Edward Alexander, published in 1849:
We also met a lusty fellow in a forest road with a keg of whisky slung round him who called to us 'Come boys and have some grog, I'm what you call a canuck"
The problem, I believe, is that the players didn’t take Stevens seriously. They grew too comfortable with him and felt that he wouldn’t be too harsh with them.
My sentiments exactly. This situation was the opposite of the typical Michel Therrien / Bill Barber “Coach Has Lost the Locker Room” deal. The players liked Stevens too much and were too comfortable with him at the helm.
He did a great job to get them to this point, but sadly it’s time to change direction.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
These players are “too comfortable” yet suffering from a lack of confidence (per all accounts).
And somehow, making them uncomfortable is going to make them more confident?
Your taking the word out of context. I meant that the players felt they were fine giving <50%, they new stevens wouldn’t ride there ass if they didn’t try.
by JpH89 on Dec 4, 2009 7:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I did have a question for you guys though…this guy is an outsider to the way you guys usually do it right? Don’t most guys get brought up from within?
In more recent years, yes.
The quasi “outsiders” we almost got over the top with were Hitchcock and Terry Murray. I say “quasi” because we hired them away from other organizations even though they had previously spent time with ours.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I’ll be the last person to wish good luck on the Flyers, but this sort of game plan worked in Pittsburgh’s favor last season when they fired Therrien.
Not sayin, but just sayin.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
But Bylsma > Therien
Despite winning the Cup, Laviolette had one great season. Every other year was completely craptastic. Talk about a fluke.
Beer is good! And stuff!
Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I thought Laviolette was fired in the middle of the season.
Beer is good! And stuff!
Weird, right?
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 4, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
He was. They rebounded under Maurice.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 4, 2009 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
I thought so.
So it pretty much proves my point about Laviolette. Then again, as I remember, there wasn’t much balance in those Carolina teams anyway.
Beer is good! And stuff!
Behind Staal, Brindy, and Ward. Their #1 D was Kaberle (that would be Tomas’ brother Frantisek). Proves the importance of having a hot goalie.
by red army line on Dec 5, 2009 6:44 AM EST up reply actions
What if?
We pursued Therien…get inside the head of the Pitt organization..hahaha. Not saying we should be it would be kinda cool to see Therien coaching the Flyers and Bylsma coaching the Pens in the Conference Finals….of course, ending with a Philly victory that ends with a Stanley Cup parade.
Skip the Pitt, Move on down to Broad Street....
Philadelphia Flyers / Columbus Blue Jackets, 'nuff said.
heh I don’t think it would work much. His “system” (i insist on using quotes) is so far from Bylsma’s that you’d just be going in the complete opposite direction.
I mean, yes, by all means, talk to Therrien. haha
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
I think the Flyers made a good choice…see what happens. We are banking on a few “what-ifs” at the moment…it seemed to work for our rivals so maybe it will work out the same for us. I don’t really think I could see Therien sitting behind our bench….
Skip the Pitt, Move on down to Broad Street....
Philadelphia Flyers / Columbus Blue Jackets, 'nuff said.
Although...
… I still get a kick out of watching his “No one cares” speech from 2006.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Hindsight, yes. But who really expected Bylsma to come in and take care of business like he did? Pens fans appreciated the shake up because Therrien definitely wasn’t working out, but no one knew what to expect from DB.
Although I will admit, his lack of head coaching experience likely made the transition easier since people weren’t banking on his past failures like many might do for Laviolette. But Lav did win a Cup.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
It follows...
The Flyers went out and got guys like Pronger who won a championship because he knows what it takes to get there.
Their thinking was likely the same with Laviolette. If you’re going to get a new coach, let it be someone who’s been to the mountain top.
Will it translate to on-ice success? Only time will tell. But it’s great that they didn’t hire Keenan.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Of course, the fact that Gonchar came back at about the same time as Bylsma took over didn’t hurt either.
A posse ad esse.
The Copper & Blue|OilersNation|Hockey or Die!
Twitter: @JonathanWillis
Mail: jonathan.willis@live.ca
by Jonathan Willis on Dec 4, 2009 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
true, but this season without six of the seven starting defenseman (including Gonchar) the Pens went 7-6 under Bylsma. Just to maintain a little over .500 in a situation like that says a lot about a coach.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
I like Bylsma a lot more than I like Therrien; it’s just good to remember that stuff too because it gets forgotten too quickly most of the time.
A posse ad esse.
The Copper & Blue|OilersNation|Hockey or Die!
Twitter: @JonathanWillis
Mail: jonathan.willis@live.ca
by Jonathan Willis on Dec 4, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
As in baseball, I think hockey coaches are given too much credit or too much blame for wins/losses. It all boils down to player execution ultimately.
I do think Bylsma runs a better system that better suits his best players’ skill sets.
Yes and no, especially in this case. Having coached the Pens’ farm team the year before he definitely had a grasp on what players were a fit when he had to make a call for reinforcements.
But yeah, I agree that in most cases a coach in that situation is just static.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
Thirded. Fact is that most NHL coaches are competent (although Therrien’s on the outer edge) and the biggest item they have to work with is the roster.
A posse ad esse.
The Copper & Blue|OilersNation|Hockey or Die!
Twitter: @JonathanWillis
Mail: jonathan.willis@live.ca
by Jonathan Willis on Dec 4, 2009 6:24 PM EST up reply actions
You have to keep in mind...
… Carolina has always been a team of extremes – really old guys and really young guys, and not a lot of in-between. I think that the Flyers are a bit more balanced than any of those Carolina teams were. Laviolette will have more talent to work with here, and for a longer period of time.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Although I'll stand by my opinion on Laviolette, your point is well taken.
At least your team didn’t get Tom Renney, although it would be very amusing to me if you did.
Beer is good! And stuff!
Soft Landing
As an Oilers’ fan, it sounds like Craig MacTavish would have been a nice fit.
Anyways, I don’t think Laviolette can mess this up too badly; the Flyers have too much talent to struggle for too long. This is as plum a gig as any coach could hope to land in.
A posse ad esse.
The Copper & Blue|OilersNation|Hockey or Die!
Twitter: @JonathanWillis
Mail: jonathan.willis@live.ca
Laviolette was on NHL Live earlier in the week…
Audio: http://podcasts.nhl.com/20092010/live/2009_12_02_peter_laviolette.mp3
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Stevens was the right guy to build our young guys up and bring the team out of the cellar, but the players have grown to comfortable with him. We need someone else to put us over the top.
Coaching changes in the NHL are always about waking up the players. The hope is that Richards, Carter, etc. will wake up and realize that they got their coach fired., and thus play with a renewed sense of purpose.
As far as Laviolette goes, he won a cup with a team that doesnt have nearly the talent that this one has.
The bottom line is, this team has a multitude of issues. But the most pressing issues are consistency, the inability to play a full 60 minutes of hockey, and the “oh well, its just one game” approach they take after losing. Those issues come from the Captain and the head coach. Richards isn’t going anywhere and stripping him of his captaincy would only create drama in the locker room. You cant blame all of our issues on Stevens, but something had to be done. You cant wait till the middle of the season when your already out of the playoff picture to make this move
FYI – if you have access to the NHL Live podcasts on iTunes you can listen to the interview with Laviolette from yesterday’s broadcast. Just listened to it and I have to say I found it amusing that it ended with something like, “We hope you’ll be back soon Peter. I hope you get a chance soon.”
I’m not entirely up on my Flyers news, but was he even a name being tossed around as a replacement before Stevens got the ax?
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com and twitter.
Laviolette seems like a fair replacement, although he hasn’t coached for nearly a year so it might be a problem at the moment. Other than that probably one of the few decent coaches available
Space Weed Says Telling it like it is without a care about the mainstream's feelings
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Dec 4, 2009 7:03 PM EST reply actions
so...
Can we expect a trade or two to happen or bring in some new blood for the new coach to fit into his system? Not anything major but a role player or something.
by JpH89 on Dec 4, 2009 7:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
To combat the negativity:
People are overlooking the fact that this team, while struggling and playing worse than an ECHL team of late, is still in fact talented. Even with this horrid stretch that got their coach fired, the team still ranks favorably in some pretty important categories:
10th in goals against per game. Ahead of Pittsburgh, Washington, Colorado, and Detroit
9th in 5-on-5 goal ratio. Ahead of Colorado, Boston, New Jersey, and Detroit.
4th in power play %. Ahead of San Jose, Washington, Colorado, Detroit, and New Jersey. And 21 other teams.
8th in fewest shots against per game. Ahead of Buffalo, Boston, San Jose, and Washington.
So, no. This isn’t a “terribly constructed team.” A change had to be made and they made one. Is it enough? We’ll see. But this team is more than just talented, they’re good. They just have to play the way they can.
Give up if you wish. Start counting down until the draft, waiting for free agency, or calling for Homer’s head. But I for one will be there when this team starts playing like the top-10 team in the entire league that they are, rather than floundering in 10th in the East.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Does this mean you think Laviolette is THE guy to turn this thing around?
by memphisbrando on Dec 4, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
No idea. I think he’s a very qualified coach, the most qualified of the names that I personally heard tossed around.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 4, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
haha, exactly.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 4, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
“9th in 5-on-5 goal ratio. Ahead of Colorado, Boston, New Jersey, and Detroit.”
Wait, what? Really?
by philiafan14364 on Dec 5, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah. 5-on-5 goals for/goals against is 1.15. Colorado (1.10), Boston (0.98), New Jersey (0.98), and Detroit (0.88).
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s something that has been overshadowed a bit, via Panotch…
Post-game last night: Pronger stands up in middle of packed dressing room and says to media, “I’ll go first” for interviews. Richards? Last.
I hear he tore apart richie carter and harnell after the game last night.
by JpH89 on Dec 4, 2009 8:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Where did you hear that? And he should have…the whole team, outside of Asham and Boucher, played like utter shite.
I know someone who writes for the flyers in a local paper(won’t say who, just in case) but he gave them the “your the bleeping stars and the 3rd bleeping line is out performing you” speech.
by JpH89 on Dec 4, 2009 8:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Then again, Pronger was a -2 last night…
He’s right, but it’s tough to call people out when you yourself didn’t have a great game either.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 4, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
That one goal was fluky, but if we put in a goal or two is game looks great
by JpH89 on Dec 4, 2009 8:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Homer says that he told Pronger and Richards Stevens was fired. “The rest of the players got a text message saying there would be a change of plans tomorrow.” Wow. Really? That’s a little unprofessional.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Well, it’s certainly impersonal. He probably had a lot of stuff to do before tonight’s presser. He said he discussed the move “at length” with Richie but spoke to Pronger briefly.
The way he said it though made it seem as if he didn’t even say Stevens was fired in the text though. I’d imagine he did, but the way he said it makes me wonder.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 4, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
Pronger should have gotten the C
Although I’m happy that the Flyers did something. . . . . . I was hoping that Pronger would get the C and Stevens would keeep his job. I said it before and the fact that Pronger should get the “C” WILL NOT go away for as long as Pronger is a Flyer. It’s gonna be unavoidable with Richie’s demeanor and lack of leadership. We’ll be having this conversation for the next several years. The only good thing is they could possibly be saving this move in case they still suck. I’m not trying to rag on Richie, but he’s not the leader this organization was hoping for and Pronger is a born leader.
I completely agree.
Richie is a great player and he leaves it on the ice. But having seen Prims and even Desjardins…it’s hard to ignore the elephant in the room that is Prongs.
So yeah.
We’re fucked.
We’re getting Carolina’s rejects. Think about that. Sting a bit?
Boston’s rejects. Before Boston got good, they kicked this bum out. Sting a bit?
The Islanders rejects.
Let that sit for a bit.
The Islanders. Islan-fucking-ders. The Islanders. Said this coach wasn’t good enough for them.
So lets fucking sign him!
Fucking a. We’re doomed. Stevens had to go, but this is going from bad to worse real quick.
This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.
by BroadStreetBully on Dec 4, 2009 11:37 PM EST reply actions
Charlie Manuel was once someone’s reject, too. I’m not saying this guy is the answer; I’m just saying that we don’t know what’s going to happen. Why don’t we give it a chance before we decide we’re totally “fucked”?
Because at this point, it looks like Homer said “You know what? Losing to the stanley cup champions sucks. This whole winning business isn’t working for us. Let’s hire a guy who we know is going to suck. Winning hasn’t gotten us a cup, let’s try losing!”
by BroadStreetBully on Dec 4, 2009 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Laviolette's last full season as head coach:
His team finished 9th in the Eastern Conference, two points out of a playoff spot. They were tied for 10th in the entire NHL in wins, tied for 4th most wins in the East. In the NHL, they had the 5th most goals per game, but only the 25th best goals against per game. They had the 8th best 5-on-5 goals for/against ratio, the 8th best power play, but the 26th best penalty kill. They had the second most shots on goal per game, but only the 15th fewest shots against per game. They had the 19th best team save percentage at even-strength, and it only got worse on the penalty kill: NHL worst .848.
So, they weren’t nearly as bad as you’re letting on (evidenced by the amount of wins they had) and they clearly had a solid offense, a solid power play, and a solid even strength team. Where they were weak was on defense and in goal. So, let’s look at the key players on that team.
On offense, their six highest scoring forwards, in order: Eric Staal, Ray Whitney, Erik Cole, Rod Brind’Amour, Matt Cullen, and Cory Stillman. They were a combined minus-8.
On defense, their top four defenseman in ice-time per game: Joe Corvo, Bret Hedican, Mike Commodore, and Dennis Seidenberg. They all finished a positive plus/minus, but only Hedican was over a plus-6, registering a plus-17 himself.
Compare that to the team he’s taking over, and he clearly has better players across the board. So far this year, the Flyers six highest scoring forwards, in order: Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, James van Riemsdyk, Scott Hartnell, Danny Briere, and Claude Giroux. They are a combined plus-10 so far. The top four defenseman in ice-time per game are Chris Pronger, Matt Carle, Braydon Coburn, and Kimmo Timonen.
His old team had Bret Hedican as it’s only good defenseman, and Eric Staal, Erik Cole, and maybe Ray Whitney as their only legitimately good offensive players. Laviolette almost took that team to the playoffs. That team failed because of their poor goaltending, poor penalty kill, and overall poor defense not because of the coach. When Joe Corvo gets the most ice-time per game and Tim Gleason, Frantisek Kaberle, and Glen Wesley are the only defenseman to play more than 66 games, do you really think the coach is to blame? Gleason, Kaberle, and Wesley were a combined minus-2. Is it any wonder why that team didn’t make the playoffs? If anything, they OVERperformed, and not because of sheer talent.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
While I mostly agree with you I would point out that PK and defensive play is primarily a function of coaching. PHI certainly has more skill than the CAR team that won the Cup, and the team that got Laviolette fired, but it’s not fair to say that it was only the personnel that got him fired. At some point the coach has to make adjustments to make the team better, and Laviolette wasn’t able to do that with CAR.
Listen to Ol' Hank Murphy and eat your damn onions.
I certainly agree. But they suffered from the worst team S% while a man-down in the league. There isn’t much a coach can do about that – I realize some, but not much – and that goes a long way to solving the PK problems.
I basically wanted to combat the notion that Laviolette is a terrible coach who got fired from terrible teams who thought he was too terrible of a coach to coach a terrible team. Yeah, I know that’s difficult to read. It’s late. Anyway, the point of the post was to show that he did some good things with bad teams.
I agree that he probably needs to adjust how he runs a PK unit, since none of those stats were good. But even-strength and a man up, his teams do incredibly well with what little talent they have. Having a higher shorthanded save percentage will make the PK better, but – without actually seeing his team’s shorthanded – that’s the only real weakness that can be see from the team that got him fired.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 1:54 AM EST up reply actions
Keep in mind...
… the Flyers kept Berube and Mullen, their special-teams guys. ALl through last year and up until our recent slide, the Flyers’ special teams were very good, thanks in large part to those two.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Richards and the C
If Pronger wasn’t here would we even be talking Richards as the Captain right now? Tough spot for the 24 year old, in retrospect he probably should have handed to C over when we sign Pronger, maybe he still do it before it is all over. Because in no way do I think the who wears the C is more important than than the head coach.
It’s a very tough spot for a 24-year-old to handle, with very high expectations. I really like Richards, but I truly believe he’d be more valuable to the Flyers if he didn’t have the C on his chest. He’s trying too hard to be the next Bobby Clarke (or whoever) instead of developing into someone capable of leading his teammates, which even Crosby has done, and it kills me to say that.
Maybe Laviolette will give Richie the motivation he needs to be a leader on the ice. But failing that, Laviolette should be the guy who won’t tolerate the lazy and sloppy play of so many of our “star” players. Hopefully.
I love so many things about professional hockey. How much they give and how normal they are in spite of being professional athletes is something far different from the other major 3 sports. BUT I cannot stand what babies these players are with quitting on a coach. The average has to be mid-twenties with these guys and they quit on their coach? Sorry guys, you aren’t 13 anymore. Act like professionals. They probably will play better like so many other teams do but there will be a little love lost for this team based on this decision caused by the PLAYERS. They should state publicly that it was all their fault. Stevens couldn’t make a bunch of players act like adults.
At least Pronger gets it:
"At the end of the day, the players didn’t get the job done … this is essentially a shot at us that we didn’t do the job."
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
People can say what they want about whether Richards is Captain material or not, but the more I hear from Pronger, the more I believe he is or will become the de-facto captain of this team. The man—who has largely done his job—doesn’t hold back in using the words “us” and “we,” which I love.
Good point. And Pronger is also the sort of guy banking on a ton of experience as well. Although he probably won’t wear the C in Philly, I’m sure Pronger takes the Bill Guerin-like role in the locker room where veteran leadership speaks louder than any letter on the sweater.
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