Flyers embarrassed in Laviolette's debut
by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2009 9:28 PM EST
in Philadelphia Flyers Game Recaps - 09-10
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PrintEmbarrassing.
We'll have much more on this "game" in the morning, but right now isn't a time for putting serious thoughts down for all the world to potentially read.
Blow off steam in the comments, enjoy Laviolette's press conference, and most importantly, have a drink.
Go Flyers.
11:09 AM, The Day After: Leaving that ^ there to encapsulate forever how I felt last night. Now, let's move on to a deeper look at this one so we can try to learn from it... or something.
[TSN Recap] - [Boxscore] - [Washington Reaction]
Last April, when Dan Carcillo decided to fight Max Talbot in Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Quarterfinals, many around the hockey world said it was the impetus for Pittsburgh coming back from a 3-0 lead and ending the Flyers season that day. Those people were wrong. If, today, those same people would say the Carcillo's uninhibited cross-check-then-knock-out of Matt Bradley were the game-changer against the Capitals, those people would be 100 percent correct.
Bradley cleanly hit Carcillo along the boards, but for whatever reason, Danny couldn't rein in his emotions. Shocker, right? It's good when you play with an edge, but more often then not, the guy can't seem to keep himself under control. We were evidenced to yet another one of those incidents last night. After the jump, take a look at the video, the boxscore as the ref's threw the book at Carcillo, and, of course, the ensuing nightmare of a hockey game.
And the penalties...
PHI – 14:33, D. Carcillo (cross check – 2 min)
PHI – 14:33, D. Carcillo (fighting – 5 min)
PHI – 14:33, D. Carcillo (misconduct – 10 min)
PHI – 14:33, D. Carcillo (instigator – 2 min)
PHI – 14:33, D. Carcillo (game misconduct – 10 min)
Hate to say it, but they're all there. The cross check is maybe a little weak, but he did cross check Bradley when he was down on the ice. The instigator, the fighting major, and the misconducts are also totally deserved. There's no debating that. Period. As Laviolette said after the game, "We got hit and should've skated away."
But Carcillo didn't. And nine minutes of power play time for the Capitals were the result. First, though, let's set the stage a little bit.
Prior to the "fight," the score was knotted up at one. The Flyers came out pretty lifeless from the start, and things weren't helped by the fact that Ray Emery gave up a goal less than a minute into the game. But they were able to keep the score at 1-0, and about 11 minutes later, it was Carcillo who (ironically) picked up the puck in the corner, fed it back to Oskars Bartulis for a shot from the point, allowing Mika Pyorala to bang home the rebound to tie the score at one.
If you listen to the highlights on NHL.com, you can hear the Washington broadcast crew talking about Carcillo before the goal, saying things like "he's been much better this year" and "he's not taking those dumb minor penalties." It's like they already knew what was about to happen a little over two minutes later and wanted to be funny about it or something.
So yeah, Carcillo beats down Bradley and the Caps get a nine minute-long power play. From the goal, the Flyers had looked better than they did at the start of the game. They spent time in the Washington end. They got pucks on Theodore. But with that number nine glaring down upon them from the Wachovia Center scoreboard, any life they had was completely sucked out of them. Should that be the case? No. Is it understandable? Of course.
Washington went on to score three goals on the power play. It didn't help that Emery looked absolutely rattled from the start. Most of all, it didn't help that the power play was nine minutes long.
When you get so behind so fast, it becomes really hard to analyze the game. The Flyers clearly didn't show enough heart in this one, but a game like this is such an anomaly that you have to take it with a grain of salt. Add to it that it was Peter Laviolette's first game as head coach and you really can't take much from it.
What we need to take from this game is how they respond to it. How Carcillo responds, how Pronger and Richards respond, how Emery responds, and most importantly, how Laviolette responds. If this team can't turn this game into rock bottom, into the defining point of the season, then we're in for the long haul here. Hopefully they turn it around starting today at practice and then Monday night in Montreal.
Questions With Answers
- How hard do the Flyers come out of the gate? There's no doubt they have a lot to prove tonight. It was ugly, as previously mentioned.
- Will they sustain the effort for the entire game? What effort?
- How does Ray Emery bounce back from several shaky outings? He looked as bad, if not worse than he has all season.
- Does Kimmo Timonen show any signs of his broken toe? Hard to tell in this game.
- On an individual level, how do Mike Richards and Chris Pronger, the leaders of this team should be feeling the most blame for Stevens' firing, play this evening? See number four.
- Can the power play get out of its slump? They only had one chance. It looked a little better, if that means anything.
- How long does the shutout streak continue before the Flyers finally score? 172:10
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I just put my Winter Variety Pack in the fridge :( So I’m with Irish Mist
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
Havin a second drink!
In response to “They brought their fucking toys!”: I wish they actually did bring their toys.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Over-Under on Backlund getting the start on Monday?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
“It never should’ve happened. We got hit and should’ve skated away.”
Laviolette on Carcillo.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
I don't care any more.
I want this team to do whatever is necessary to win in today’s game.
I’m sick of “almosts” and “good efforts” and the rest of it.
I’m sick of saying “well if this didn’t happen we would have won / the game would have been different.”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Most Entertaining Moment During the Game
My cat acting like a dog and chasing/attacking/chewing on his own tail.
Much like the team tonight.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Well it’s still on, and he’s fast asleep. I guess it was a tie.
Unlike the game.
So yes, Oliver’s tail did a better job than the Flyers did.
If that isn’t depressing I don’t know what is.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
haha, that’s not a tie, that’s a win for Tail.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And the Sixers are down 105-104 with five seconds left. They were up by like 10+ with four minutes left.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
“Looks like a team that’s struggling with confidence issues right now…”
This guy is good at figuring out problems quickly. Now he has to correct them properly.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
That press conference was awesome. So refreshing to hear a coach just say it straight.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Should be on the Flyers site soon, but I was impressed.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
This HAS to be the turning point of the season.
We can’t play any worse than we did tonight.
Every issue that has been plaguing this team for the past two seasons bubbled up to the surface tonight.
On the bright side, at least Laviolette saw everything that needs work!
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Reporter: “Surprised Bradley didn’t get any penalties?”
Pronger: “No.”
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
You can tell Pronger is furious with Carcillo. Wow.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Pronger:
This is what you’re gonna get. It’s not pretty and it’s not fun. And it’s pretty damn embarrassing.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
I’d love for Laviolette to have made Carcillo talk to the media after the game. Make him answer questions from the Philly media AND the Washington media. How about that for accountability?
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Amen.
I think these things are decided prior to the game, though. I think. Not that Lavi couldn’t have overridden that decision if he wanted.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
Seravalli says “Carcillo is slated to speak after the game.”
Can my wish come true?
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Think Richie shows the same passion as Pronger?
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
The answer is a resounding “No.”
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Someone on Twitter just pointed out the stare he gave across the room when he said Carcillo (not by name, of course) was undisciplined. I noticed it too. Damn scary.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Pronger stared across the room?
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think if that guy stared at me across the room I’d crap my pants.
I lift and could probably hold my own in a fight, but not with him.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Me too. I still love a text I got from Ben when he was in the locker room in D.C. After that loss, Pronger was pissed and took it out on the guys in the room. I can’t imagine how pissed he was tonight.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
By "the guys in the room"
Do you mean the media or his teammates?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Media, sorry. I just didn’t want to include Ben in “media” and get shit for that.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, he looked up and made a glance. Could’ve been nothing, but still. He had scary looking eyes the entire interview.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah he did. I loved when he rolled his eyes at a reporter’s question. If I asked that question, I’d stop myself and say, “Nevermind, you know what? I’m sorry.”
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
That sounds bad, but it’s a personality issue. The question then becomes, Is the right personality the leader of this team?
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
Panaccio got some passion out of him
or at least turned Richie’s words into a story showing the Captain’s passion:
"I’ll hold the team accountable for that and I should have responded better. Now is the time to work on things, improve and get ready for [Montreal]. It has to get better and it will get better. I’m confident in the people we have in this dressing room and I’m confident in the leadership I have to improve the team. We’re at a dead end right now and I’m ready to lead the team forward."
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 6, 2009 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
sorry to nitpick, but you can’t go forward at a dead end. you can turn around and go back, but you certainly can’t go forward.
lol, excellent catch. I missed that.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 6, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Richards:
“I don’t know if it’s on a nightly basis. I don’t know, I’m not a coach. All I can do is hold people accountable in here.”
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
I think it’s just a matter of not wanting to answer the question, not wanting to show his hand in front of the media.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2009 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, the question was “If a player makes a mistake like that more than once, or on a nightly basis, what would you think?”
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Richards is a lot like Stevens with the media. He sugarcoats things. Does he do that in the room? We’ll never know.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
He did take a mini-shot though saying if you don’t want to fight, you don’t drop the gloves.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
Well, he admits Stevens was his mentor, so I can see why he is the way he is. And I appreciate that, but he may not be right for this team and its over abundance of knuckleheads. I’m looking at you, Homer.
I agree.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
I hope not.
He can’t be as incompetent as we’re making him out to be. I just don’t think he airs out any of that stuff with the media.
Didn’t he and Carcillo play on the same junior team?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Carcillo played for Sarnia and Mississauga. Richards played for Kitchener.
Carcillo may have played with Richards in the WJC, though. Not sure.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
No one has mentioned it here yet, so I will.
And since I’m not watching TV at the moment, I’ll raise the question.
Is anyone connecting Carcillo’s behavior tonight with what happened in Game 6 against Pittsburgh last year?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I certainly hope not.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
He's a liability
He has skill, but he’s too prone to stupid crap like this. Philly is not a halfway house and I wish we’d stop taking in athletes with so many issues just because they’re cheap.
Not that I am...
… but someone will sooner or later.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I think that was a different situation. The fight in that game was dumb but it didn’t directly hurt the team. This one clearly did.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, but someone (Carchidi? Wyshynski?) will no doubt be all over it: “First he did THIS and his team lost. Last night he did THAT and his team lost. Oh, the humanity!”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Yeah, and that would be irresponsible. I do not want to have to defend Carcillo for Game 6 again. As soon as he WON that fight, the Flyers had ALL the momentum. Pegging him with the blame for the entire team taking a shit and saying “Game over” is not his fault.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. I responded to it the first time, but this time, they wouldn’t be wrong.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
If they stuck to this game, they would be absolutely correct. But if any of them bring up last year, they’re just wrong.
Like Mike said, someone will just to get attention.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
That sounds like the tag line to a bad action/drama film:
…“but THIS time… they WON’T be WRONG. Dan Carcillo AS Stan Carcillo IN: The Night The Season Died.”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Sports Nite showed a bit of Carcillo’s interview, but they cut if off right as a reporter asked “What did Laviolette…” Up to that point, he didn’t say much of anything.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 10:06 PM EST reply actions
Yeah, pretty weak, CSN.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Alright, I’m out of here. Much more tomorrow on this game. Need to get away from hockey for a bit though. Enjoy the night.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Could someone please explain to me what Carcillo did wrong?
He got hit in the face with a stick, cross-checked a guy back. Then his apparent crime was winning a fight too well. Bradley dropped his gloves and got knocked the fuck out. And therefore Carcillo gets an instigator and two game misconducts??? And Bradley drops his gloves to fight without getting penalized.
You guys are all losing the point of tonight, though.
1) Long before the Carcillo incident, JVR and Carter chose not to play defense one minute into the game. They watch Fleischman skate pass them to the net and score.
2) The first two lines were completely disinterested in playing tonight. Once again, the third line was the best line.
3) Special teams failed miserably on every account.
4) Emery still looks like shit.
5) The Flyers won only 48% of faceoffs.
6) Both Hartnell and Carcillo were less disciplined than they’ve been all season.
There is no question, this team’s attitude did not improve with the dismissal of John Stevens. I guess now they’ll fire Laviolette.
5)
Damn straight
If Bradley gets up after that hit, it’s a completely different story. He dropped his mitts and stepped into a punch and dropped like a sack of potatoes.
This team is too talented to play like this. I’d much rather play a finesse game and win a stanley cup than play as the Broad street bullies and come up short. Again.
I’ll correct that, I’d rather be known as the Broad Street Bullies for constantly running up the score than for fighting.
One more thing. We can have a great team of goal scorers, but without a decent goalie between the pipes we’re never going to win a trophy.
I watched it again and he looked bad the second time through however Bradley did engage Carcillo if he didn’t want to fight he could have skated instead he skated at Carcillo who dropped his glves grabbed him and fired away. I don’t think it was a dirty play or a cheap shot and the penalty was pretty ridiculous. Bradley should have gotten something to go along with his broken nose, regardless of if he got his gloves off in time he engaged Carcillo who was clearly going to fight him his gloves were already off and hence the instigator was fine but what the hell was Bradley doing, trying to talk Carcillo out of the fight. This is going to set a bad precedence of guys willing to take a punch for a 9 minute Powerplay.
BTW That crosscheck only gets called on Carcillo it was pretty minor and pretty much any other guy would have gotten away with it. Yeah it was a shot but it wasn’t a really offensive it was a typical crosscheck you give a guy you are trying to fight.
The problem was that the crosscheck was THE call until Carcillo decided to fight him. I have no problem with the refs calling the initial penalty. They were trying to penalize the retaliation (since they apparently missed a highstick – I didn’t see one) and it only looks weak after Carcillo broke his nose.
I agree with you that Bradley engaged Carcillo – rather dumb, if you ask me – but he did it in an attempt to get Carcillo to take yet another penalty. Carcillo obliged. Was it worth a broken face? You’d have to ask Bradley. Like you said, this could start a dangerous precedent, but who would really be willing to give Dan Carcillo a free punch to the face just to get 2 points in the standings? Not too many people.
My thoughts on the incident in one sentence: Carcillo was undisciplined, took offense to a high check and took a two-minute cross-checking/roughing penalty, but didn’t stop there: He had to try to fight Bradley, who tried to goad him into taking more PIMS, which Carcillo did.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
After the crosscheck I want him to try to engage Bradley, when that happens you usually get a 5 and 2, Bradley should have skated away and enjoyed the 2 minute PP but he engaged and then it is on. I guess Bradley doesn’t know the rules of engagement and got dropped.
But in my opinion the crosscheck could have and would have been ignored. As it was nothing serious but a love tap on the back it wasn’t up high or the ribs but a minor shot in the back that had nothing to do with the play. But Carcillo has such a bad reputation that that he will even get 2 minutes for Diving on a Boarding call. Any time he hits anyone 2 minutes will be coming at this point it is expected. I bet he even gets suspended for this I wouldn’t be shocked anyway.
Reading that again it sounds like I am trying to defend Carcillo, of course I would rather have him just skate away after the hit and just get the next Capital with a hard hit. His undisciplined actions would have still put us down a man of at least 2 minutes but probably 4 if the ref was a complete A-HOLE. While 4 minutes is a whole lot better than 9 it is still uncalled for.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 6, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
For clarification, what is this picture supposed to prove? To me it just shows Carcillo swung before Bradley’s gloves hit the ice or his hands were in a defensive position.
Listen to Ol' Hank Murphy and eat your damn onions.
Geoff provides some more context over in the thread at Japers’ Rink. I think it’s actually intended to further back up the fact that, even if Bradley was in the process of dropping his gloves (i.e., willing to fight), Carcillo didn’t wait and made contact before the gloves even hit the ice or Brads’ hands moved any higher than his waist.
"Let the rest be scared of us." - Emo Bunny Sasha Semin
by Scott in Shaw on Dec 7, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
I saw that over there after I saw this. I thought that was what he meant but just wanted to make sure.
Listen to Ol' Hank Murphy and eat your damn onions.
haha, yeah. Sorry. I thought you guys would jump on me if I didn’t give an explanation, but yeah, his gloves came off. When Carcillo’s fist was in his face.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 7, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
“Long before the Carcillo incident” doesn’t matter. “The Carcillo incident” turned a 1-1 game into a 4-1 game. At that point, the team quit. Period.
If you want to criticize the team in that 3 minute interval where the score went from 1-1 to 4-1, fine. Emery played like shit. But the entire team did as well. Tonight is not a night to single anyone out – as I got slammed for trying to single Mike Richards out in the game thread – since not ONE player did anything worthy of carrying an NHL salary.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2009 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
if he only would have won another 4% of faceoffs we could have won this game, stop with the faceoffs that is clearly the least of the problems. If Matt Carle didn’t turn the puck over inside his own blueline the 1st goal would not have happened. And the Flyers didn’t score on the lone PP opportunity the caps netted 4 goals in 17 minutes.
Amen.
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by ronnybrook.blog on Dec 6, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Amen.
For my daily hockey thoughts, visit http://ronnybrook.wordpress.com
by ronnybrook.blog on Dec 6, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
One game.
You can’t say “the team’s attitude did not improve with the dismissal of John Stevens” after one game. Let’s give Laviolette some more time.
I know you’re not a fan of our regular hockey writers – and I’m really not either – but I thought that Carchidi and Sheridan had some good things to say today regarding Stevens’ dismissal and the overall direction of the team.
It’s not too late to turn things around, but it really does need to happen soon.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
1st impressions of the coach
On a positive note Laviolette didn’t get all crazy and start juggling the lines all around when we fell behind and he did roll out the 4th line for regular shifts. Both of those things are something that Stevens did that drove me nuts at times. Also he move Giroux to wing top loading the top lines. 8-2 or 3-2 still only counts once in the loss column. It is early MTL, NYI and OTT are on the weaker side of competition which should help turn this thing around before the NJD on Sat.
Last year in the stanley cup playoffs, there was a fight between Scott Walker and Aaron Ward in the Bruins-Hurricanes match. Walker knocked out Ward before he dropped the gloves, which is exactly what happened in the Carcillo Bradley fight. But I’m pretty sure the Bruins did not go on a 9 minute power play afterwards. Can anyone help me distuguish the differences between the two fights?
By the way, Bradley=Pansy
Excellent connection
The Walker/Ward incident led to a 7 minute Bruins power-play (or so suggests the ESPN boxscore), with Ward getting 2 minutes roughing and Matt Cullen getting 2 minutes roughing. Walker was penalized 5 for fighting and 2 for instigating.
Obviously, the boxscore could be wrong, or I could be interpreting the outcome wrong, but it would appear as if Ward and Cullen got concurrent minors for roughing, then Walker jumped in with the sucker punch landing him 7 minutes in the box.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 6, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, there was also only 2:47 left in the game when that incident took place.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 6, 2009 1:36 AM EST up reply actions
The other problem I have with it is that Bradley didn’t get any penalty minutes, despite the fact that he did drop his gloves. So how can one person get an fighting major and a instigator penalty if technically, there was no fight. Either give two guys fighting majors or none.
Tyler Sloan on his first shift (last year, Caps @ CAL) landed a monster hit and got retaliated against. I think he drew a 9 min PP. So if you fight and your opponent doesn’t fight back, then it can be a one-sided major.
by red army line on Dec 6, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
“So if you fight and your opponent doesn’t fight back, then it can be a one-sided major.”
bradley clearly shook his gloves off. if he had put his dukes up, so to speak, and carcillo dropped him with one shot, technically bradley wouldnt be fighting back. in everygame ive watched, dropping your gloves institutes a penalty. even if its just a minor. how many times have you seen a person drop the gloves and pummel someones who is covering their head while laying on the ice? hell, that never gets a 9 minute powerplay. i dont remember crysby getting 9 pim for his fight against the florida panther in the faceoff circle. like others have said on this topic, carcillo got 9 for being carcillo.
Brads shook the gloves, but the point was moot by the time he did
In most cases when two guys “engage” in a fight, both guys have shaken the gloves off and then they go. In this case, Carcillo jumped early and that is part of what his mates are pissed at him about—an easy call for the refs. He had Bradley’s jersey—engaged, in other words—while Bradley had both gloves on on the stick, and clearly was not. It was early, and the refs made the right call, reputation notwithstanding. Had he simply waited and stepped back, then the fight would have gone down accordingly, and the matching 5’s would have been appropriate. Carcillo still gets the extra cross check, but no gm misconduct. And it’s a different game.
Nice right hand though. At least he’s got that going for him.
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by bigonetimer on Dec 6, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, Bradley gloves did come off, but it certainly looked like the punch knocked them off as Bradley was trying to drop ’em. Trying to, but not there yet.
by red army line on Dec 6, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
You’ve now said that twice, without any support.
"Let the rest be scared of us." - Emo Bunny Sasha Semin
by Scott in Shaw on Dec 6, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
The video is on this page. You can watch him throwing a punch before he gets his pussy ass knocked out.
I’ve watched it several times. Bradley maybe tries to swing his right arm while Carcillo is busy sucker-punching him in the face. But you seem to be implying that he was engaged in fighting, and perhaps should have been assessed a matching roughing penalty. But that (like the phantom high-stick the Philly media keeps talking about) clearly was not the case. His “pussy ass” didn’t have a chance to fight because your goon was too stupid (or pussy himself?) to wait for him to square up. Carcillo broke both the “code” and the rules. And now he has a nice four-game vacation to think about it.
"Let the rest be scared of us." - Emo Bunny Sasha Semin
by Scott in Shaw on Dec 6, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Carcillo broke both the "code"
Thats a farce and a lie. He didn’t violate any “code”. One guy comes after you, you push each other, and then agree to fight.
Here’s video links from four other fights this week where punches were thrown before the other guy “squared up”.
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2009/12/6/1188165/dan-carcillo-suspended-four-games#26684863
But keep spreading trolling with lies. That’s soooo cool.
I’m not trolling, I’m just baffled by the fact that you are still defending this. Even the people who run this site and your co-commenters aren’t doing that. Read more of the comment thread on the suspension post. Despite your collection of examples, the “code” state that you don’t just jump a guy. If you want to fight, drop the gloves, wait for him to drop the gloves, and fight. Bradley certainly would have fought Carcillo (and probably lost, given Brads’ record), but not giving him the chance—especially after a clean hit—is bush league.
"Let the rest be scared of us." - Emo Bunny Sasha Semin
by Scott in Shaw on Dec 6, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Four times this week. And HockeyFights doesn’t have the weekend games up yet. So four times in five games.
Throwing the first punch violates no code. If Bradley doesn’t want to get hit, don’t take a run at a guy and hit him up high with your stick in the air. That’s the Code of hockey: Don’t hit a guy if you don’t want to get hit.
Once Bradley takes his run at Carcillo, Carcillo is justified, by the code, to challenge back.
If Bradley isn’t a pussy who can’t take a punch, there’s no discussion of the play whatsoever. (Just like the Tuutoo clip I posted).
And if Carcillo can learn how to take a simple, meaningless hit without flipping his lip (like his entire team wanted him to do), there’s no discussion of the play whatsoever.
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by Travis Hughes on Dec 6, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. Fighting for a clean hit isn’t part of the code. Fighting is to deter dangerous hits, and that’s not what Bradley did. No matter how many times anyone says there was a high stick, that doesn’t make it true. Except for the Tootoo example (another guy with a history of less than honorable fights) everyone of those links shows a fight where both guys were squared and ready to defend themselves. I don’t think they prove anything.
Listen to Ol' Hank Murphy and eat your damn onions.
Exactly. Fighting for a clean hit isn’t part of the code.
I stopped reading here since it wasn’t a clean hit, hence the rest of your ball-licking justifications are irrelevant.
There’s nothing dirty about that hit. He catches Carcillo on the shoulder. The stick was up but it never touches Carcillo, so it doesn’t matter.
But even if you don’t subscribe to that logic, it still isn’t a hit that Carcillo should have lost his mind over.
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by Travis Hughes on Dec 6, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
His stick is up and his arms are up. That’s dirty. You hit with your shoulder or your hip, not your hands.
It still doesn’t justify what Carcillo did. If the stick actually hits him in the face, fine. But that’s not worth a damn thing. Hits like that happen every single night in the NHL.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 7, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
What did Carcillo do?
If Carcillo doesn’t knock Bradley out, its a 2 minute power play for cross-checking because the refs blew the call on Bradley.
It’s purely refereeing by outcome instead of by the merits of the play itself.
He got his panties all in a bunch because he couldn’t take a meaningless hit. It’s not a big deal, but unfortunately he made it one.
His teammates agree. His coach agrees. His general manager agrees.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 7, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure what articles you’re reading, but Holmgren clearly disagreed. And Laviolette said he had no problem with Carcillo fighting there.
With the suspension, yes. With Carcillo’s actions, no.
Holmgren:
“He should have carried on playing the hockey game.” … "Danny gets hit, carries on and goes about his business, plays the game, and we’re not shorthanded for nine minutes."
I don’t have time to find the exact article, but I believe it was on CSN Philly.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Dec 7, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Why is it that you think you’re the smartest guy in the room, and the master debater, but you always have to get personal and drop comments like that? If you’re so much fucking smarter than everyone then argue like a grown up. Trust me, I’ve got some choice personal words for you, but for the sake of civility and maintaining legitimate dialog I keep those to myself.
Weren’t you the guy that told me I was “blaming the rapist” for saying Kaleta should have defended himself better? (Yes, you were.) And now you’re the guy calling Bradley a pussy for getting knocked out? You’ll say anything in the world just to avoid having to admit you were wrong. Have you ever actually admitted you were wrong? Or modified your position? Or are you always right? Trust me, reconsidering your position and concluding that your initial reaction wasn’t 100% correct doesn’t hurt.
And no, Bradley’s hit wasn’t dirty. Carcillo never claimed it was dirty, and he grasped at every straw available. Surely if it was dirty he would have mentioned that. The Flyers players didn’t say it was dirty. It’s a garbage argument concocted by the bogus Flyers media. Or are you going to stick up for them now because it suits your argument?
Listen to Ol' Hank Murphy and eat your damn onions.
by Rob Parker on Dec 7, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Go back to your little board and ballwash with the other blind mice. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You make that convincingly clear when you muddy arguments like this. Kaleta doesn’t have to defend himself when he’s playing hockey. Bradley does have to defend himself when he takes a run and at an oppossing player and drops his gloves to fight. That’s how hockey is played: You hit a guy you are held accountable.
hey, great punch from Carcillo—no one is saying it isn’t—but there’s no punch from Bradley. At all. A shove that says ‘get the hell outta my face’ is not a punch. Call puss all you want, but there’s a time to drop ’em and Bradley knew Carcillo was already getting a deuce for the cross check, so why would he engage? Nothing but a clean hit is what took Carcillo off his game.
And for the record, Carcillo should have savored the moment a little more; he would have kicked Brads’ ass anyway had he waited another 2 beats….and would have had the chance to blow him kisses from the bin and get pats on the back when he hits the bench and actually, you know, plays again. Now he gets to look his mates in the eye today and say he’s sorry. Awesome.
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Story updated above.
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What we need to take from this game is how they respond to it.
I am so fucking tired of this. “How will they respond to returning home from a poor road trip?” “How will they respond to Pronger’s comments when they play Vancouver?” “How will they respond to John Stevens’ being fired?”
They don’t give a flying fuck what’s going on. They’ve stopped playing hockey. They don’t play for themselves, they don’t play for the coach, they don’t play for each other.
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