I don’t think it was a salary dump. Honestly, I think it was Holmgren making a mistake., although he’ll never admit it. Upshall AND a 2nd round pick for Carcillo? C’mon, that’s way, WAY too much. Either one could have gotten him here. But both? I like the McLaren deal at face value but when you look at his salary then you realize it’s not such a good trade. I wish I could’ve been a fly on the wall at the Wachovia Center when these phone calls were going down because neither one makes a whole lot of sense. I mean, I’m not going to cry over losing Upshall. He really didn’t fulfill his potential with us and most likely won’t with Phoenix but I wish him all the luck in the world. He’s a good player but that’s all. Carcillo, if nothing else, will bring excitement to the Waco Center and maybe, hopefully, instill some fear into the other team. Let’s give it some time to see how the Carcillo deal pans out.

Truly bad. People have given Homer way too much credit in the past. Let’s not forget that only a year ago, circumstances conspired in such a way that Jeff Carter is still a Flyer. Let’s call that dumb luck.

Now I have my suspicions about what this trade was really about. Clearly the salary cap was a small factor as the miniscule amount of room it provided couldn’t possibly justify trading Upshall away at a loss for a player that at best is redundant when the flyers already have 2 enforcers.

On the negative side, you had a fledgling line (Upshall, Briere, Giroux) that was getting a lot of people jazzed up with its potential in making the Flyers the most dangerous offensive team in the NHL, and you had a guy who was liked by the fans, was only 25, arguably is geting better, and who fit in perfectly with the Flyers young core. Upshall was an energy player who went out and banged people, attacked the defense with speed, and managed to produced goals and assists even amidst the turmoil of injuries that meant a constantly changing third line.

Stevens just didn’t like Upshall for whatever reason. He benched him last year, and if you recall, it was when Upshall was reinserted into the lineup that the Flyers started to make their run, in part to some of the energy that Upshall brought back to the lineup. I think I really saw this coming during the NJ game, when Upshaw drew a dumb hooking penalty, and they cut to the Flyers bench, where Stevens and Berube appeared to be having a rather animated discussion (especially for Stevens) where you could tell that Stevens was annoyed and frustrated.

I can’t help thinking this is one of those things that can really come back to haunt you. I also feel really bad for Upshall, who gets dumped from a Stanley cup contender to a last place team. Apparently the Flyers cared so little about this, that they didn’t even bother to tell Upshall personally - he found out about it from a REPORTER.

Sometimes we forget that these are human beings, and personalities and grudges and preconcieved notions come into play.

Let’s get real here. The Flyers just traded a 2002 first round player for a 2003 3rd rounder. Explain to me how Philly had to throw in a 2nd rounder so we could get fleeced???

I guess it comes down to your opinion of Upshall. I’ve thought for along time now that one idiotic element of fantasy hockey is that PIM’s generate points but there’s no stat for drawing penalties. Upshall drew a lot of penalties. He was a 3rd line player who actually scared other team’s D. What Upshall was missing was the scoring touch that differentiates great players from average ones, however even if Upshall will only ever be an average player, he provided the element of speed that helped open up the ice for the other players on his line. Carcillo is going to do that at 6 ft 200 lbs? Upshaw had double the offensive numbers of Carcillo. In what universe is this a plus for the Flyers?
What Knuble and Hartnell do for their respective lines with size and strength Upshall did for his line with speed. There is no way that a guy Carcillo’s size is going to do for Briere and Giroux. Other teams will pinch on the line - wait and see. Stevens will need to find a place for Briere in the top 6 now. My guess is we may see a rebuilt 2nd line, because the Flyers brass doesn’t appreciate Lupul that much, and he’ll be the guy they’ll move around.

Let me be the first to predict that they move Briere to wing on the Carter line and move Lupul to 3rd line.

you know while I think you’ve made a bunch of good points, along with some good ones in the comments, I really think this boils down to homer’s last choice. He knew he couldn’t afford Upshall come summertime, due to his shopping needs defensively and in the goal.. that he reallywant to try and use him/loopy in some deal for Jay bo.. but when that didn’t happen I think he tried to shop upshall for somenoe who could still semi fill the role, and be around/affordable for the next few years.. in comes phoenix firesale, someone who would fit the role, but they pinned homer to the stump and squeezed out the draft pick as well.

I think this was a semi shrewd move on homer’s part, better longterm maybe, worse shortterm definately. We can only hope that he gels nicely and is all the cotes fans seem to talk up.

Or you know.. maybe I’m just in denial and forcing myself to imagine that this is a good thing.. cause I know I always liked wtching lil scotty play for us.

It seems like Most Flyers fans are not happy with the trades today, especially since losing both Upshall AND a 2nd round pick appears stupid. And picking up an expensive defensman for the minors doesn’t seem like a freat idea. However, I’m willing to give Holmgrem a chance (say 2-3 weeks) to prove this was a good deal. Remember last year’s draft, when people though he was crazy for taking Sbisa with the traded pick (not me but other ppl), and when he made another draft pick trade to take eminger, who he dumped this year for carle (turned out to be a good move IMO). therefore, although this sounds like typical Clarke stupidity, I, unlike most Flyers fans, will NOT be calling for Homer’s head until it’s clear that this trade was pointless and costly. Perhaps with the 400k Giroux will be seeing more ice time, and I personally think Giroux for Upshall is worth doing since Giroux seems to have more upside than Upshall did.
Now if only Holmgren will rid us of Hartnell and Cote and their stupid penalties…

A lot of you seem to think that the Coyotes will get Upshall and a measly draft pick. That’s not quite the case. We also have to remember that if Upshall gets a raise, they will be compensated accordingly should they chose not to match another team’s offer sheet. And with Kevin Lowe as a GM, he’s shown us that anything can happen.

Secondly, while I hate to see Upshall go, I also see no need mourning the lost potential. Upshall is 25, and I can’t imagine him jumping leaps and bounds developmentally at this age. He still has some upside, certainly, and maybe he’ll do better with increased ice time in Phoenix like Patrick Sharp did in Chicago. This is something you can’t immediately judge. Well, you could judge it, but unless you can see into the future, it’s not going to be an accurate assessment.

What I would have liked to have seen was Holmer keep Upshall the whole season— and get a pick in return if a high offer sheet came in. Then we wouldn’t have lost him for anything if we let him go. I’d also like to see the Flyers stop pissing draft picks away, since the cap will continue to come down and they’ll no longer be able to afford bringing players in. The new NHL is a league that rewards organizations that draft and thoroughly develop their own players. It’s not the “go out and sign any marquee name penalty free” league that it used to be. And for that I’m grateful.

Another thing that will soon no longer exist: pure pugilists. I’m definitely an advocate of fighting, but I’ll be happy when players that score 5-10 points while racking up 250+ PIMs are out of this league. Come on, we all love guys that can score and fight. Lucic, to me, is one of the more exciting younger players in this league, and he’s had to work hard to get where he’s at. That the Flyers added another fighter didn’t please me off the bat, but take away the PIMs and on the score sheet, he and Upshall are similar players. Upshall has a load of speed but doesn’t have the skill to constantly convert. And while his speed creates opportunities, his lack of polish doesn’t allow him to consistently capitalize on them.

We’ll just have to see how this one plays out. As Billy Clement said when he heard about the deal: “I think there’s more to this.” Did anyone else notice how instantly annoyed he seemed? Because I pretty much had the same reaction.

Upshall was out the door next year anyway, so we got something for him… Don’t be so quick to category Carcillo as a fourth liner, yes that was his roll this year in phoenix… but the year before he played a different role on the second and third line and scored decent numbers… maybe his upside is his ability to bang up the middle and pot goals… let’s wait and see if this move works. I don’t think Upshall was as consistent as his skill and ability show, granted he was held back with ice time…

I don’t think people are mourning Upshall’s lost potential. Upshall was already producing for the Flyers. What was exciting was the possibility of taking two lines that were already working well without Briere, and being able to bring back Briere and add a 3rd line that could actually add to the offense. I don’t see that happening without a player who brings something to the line like Upshall did.

The other reason I think it’s a huge mistake is that using that combination afforded Stevens a way of letting Briere play himself back into NHL shape without having to insert him and disrupt the top 6.

Lately the power play has really struggled so hopefully Briere will be able to come in and help get that back on track, but Stevens is going to have to mix him into the rotation somehow. It looks like it will probably be in the Carter rotation, which is also a problem because Stevens wants to go with the Richards line first.

Bill Clement is a pretty savvy analyst, who also played with the Clark/Holmgren era Flyers. When you see him in an unguarded moment going - WTF? Ok… there’s gotta be something more here, and then we find out -- nope that’s all folks. That should tell you everything you need to know about this Trade, as Clement sees all the NHL players via his ESPN gig, so you know that Carcillo isn’t someone that Clement expects to surprise people with his hockey skills.

Actually, Flyrsfrk05, Hatcher and Rathje don’t count against the cap because they are on LTIR. However, I definitely agree with you. My first response to the McLaren deal is: “I didn’t even know he was still playing!”

We have to take the trade for what it’s worth, giving up nothing to get nothing. He’s an emergency Dman at best and he comes off the books after this season. What I don’t get is why give up Vaananen for nothing and then trade to get McLaren?