Letter from the Enemy, Part 2
by Travis Hughes on Apr 16, 2009 9:00 AM EDT
in 2009 Playoffs
73 comments
As part of our ongoing coverage of the Eastern Conference Quarterfinals between the Flyers and Penguins, FrankD from Pensburgh and I have been exchanging letters. Here is his latest letter, following Pittsburgh's 4-1 win last night. Be sure to head over across enemy lines to see my correspondence.
Thanks for coming by for the thread Flyers fans. It was nice having you, even more so because the Pens completely dominated.
So one down three more to go until a sweep, huh? I'd love to see Pitt take the series in Philly. But somehow I don't think the Flyers will roll over and let that happen. Hopefully the Pens believe that too because the last thing I want to see is a split series by midnight on Friday.
Marty Biron looked shaky. His defense wasn't helping him and the offense couldn't pull anything together. Post hits or not, it just wasn't their night. By the way, is Scottie Hartnell wearing a Pens jersey under his Flyers one? Really appreciate those PP chances. Keep it going.
And how about those last 40 seconds? Can't take a loss can you? Somehow I'm not the least bit surprised. A cheap shot at Staal, a fight with Guerin, a high stick off the faceoff on Max Talbot. One hit's an accident, two is a coincidence but three is just an obvious example of poor sportsmanship.
Pitt is one win closer to the Cup while Philly is one loss closer to trading in sticks for clubs.
See ya for Game 2.
FrankD
Pensburgh
We need to win on Friday. Get these guys off their high horse, Flyers.
0 recs |
73 comments
| Add comment
|
Email
Print
Comments
blow up your pants frankd…
no more talk, pay back time!
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 9:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
sadly,
i agree with him.
did the flyers even want to play the game last night? of course they did but… you could tell just by the energy levels that the pens wanted it WAY more…
they were swarming all over the place and the orange & black seemed to be taken aback by their style of play almost immediately… they played the first 38 minutes the same way they played the last 20 of a game they are up 3 goals… to protect a lead… that they never had… a poor showing by our boys… richie wore his heart on his sleeve and seemed to be ‘complaining’ with his body language and the amount of penalties just shows once and for all, too many agitators, not enough position players. we can’t win this series like this… changes HAVE to be made – not on the lines, but in the strategy. start skating faster, start pressuring more, get in passing lanes, essentially do everything that the pens did last night… ever see the eddie murphy flick ‘trading places’…? the flyguys need to watch that tonight and try to figure out how to make that happen on ice come friday… i’m still watching and rootin for the flyguys with all my fanhood… but… for me to continue after this series, they are going to have to get their shit together fast…
by PHIGHTINPHILS on Apr 16, 2009 10:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yes man...
the tides will turn because the flyers are too good of a team to go out like this… i think strategy is definitely a big deal here, stevens got out coached in game 1 and it was because he played around with his lines too early in the game. if Richards passes that puck in the high slot to Gagne instead of Powe (who flubbed a fairly easy back hand shot), we would have scored an early goal and things would have been different…
enough with the dumb penalties as well
and did anyone notice how much ‘penguin ass’ the vs. commentators were kissing… wtf
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not PHightin words (whoa! nice pun on my own name here!)
no – just hoping they can pull it together before it’s too late… i got spoiled with the phillies taking it, now the next in line as far as having the talent to go all the way are the flyguys, then the birds, and the 76ers won’t do anything until the post-Lebron era… which is at least 15 years away…
we have a team good enough to do it THIS YEAR is all i’m saying… and if they want to have a good chance then they’ve got to get it together NOW. not when they return home down 0-2 in the series.. we have to equalize it friday, and try to sweep at home to get the series W… that’s what i need to see happen
by PHIGHTINPHILS on Apr 16, 2009 10:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Come on, man
Don’t act like the Pens are fricking angels. They gave as good as they got last night in terms of cheap sh*t. I saw them take shots at Marty all night long. That’s playoff hockey, like it or not.
That said, the Flyers were totally outplayed, which is really upsetting because they are a much better club that that. That they lacked intensity (in the playoffs) and didn’t follow the game plan…taking too many penalties…ultimately is the fault of the head coach. The Pens are not a much better team but are playing better hockey right now than the Flyers, and that was my fear going into this. The Flyers thought they could “flip a switch” and be ready for any postseason series. They are completely delusional.
I think, more than any player, this team really misses Terry Murray. Think of all the too many men on the ice penalties this year because of line changes. Didn’t happen when Murray was here.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 11:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
do you know what else didnt happen when terry murray was here...
A Stanley Cup Championship !!!
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but considering the only remnant of Fred Shero is his son Ray, the GM of the Penguins..
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog
Because the Broad Street Subway is orange for a reason.
by Travis Hughes on Apr 16, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant as an assistant coach
Not head coach. He really helped with the bench and rolling out the lines.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cant blame ‘The Chief’… Say it aint so…
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it’s not wise to hang onto the past when you’re cultivating your career, consider bobby clarke and his failure to adapt to the new NHL
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m just looking for a reason why this team is unprepared to play game in and game out. Too many lazy penalties, slow line changes (too many men on the ice), not following the game plan…ultimately, who’s fault is that? The head coach’s, right? He’s the same coach as last year, but the team played better, more disciplined hockey. Why is that? Were Upshall and Umberger THAT important to the team? I don’t think so.
Maybe I’m grasping at straws but I just think a coaching change, or two, needs to be made in the offseason. I don’t know what they’ll do with the goaltending position and certainly some defense needs to be added.
I just hope they don’t head into that offseason next week.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody consider that this might be the beginning of a player’s mutiny and that they are attempting to get Steven’s fired? I’ve seen someone ask this elsewhere and thought it myself, but haven’t asked it. Flyers and other teams have done it before—I’m thinking perhaps the Pens themselves did it this year with Therrien.
Thoughts?
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
a little too late for a mutiny when the ship is sinking
Stevens is a great coach and person… he never publicly abuses or criticizes the players. this one is on management if you want to lay blame… alberts? cap space? lack of a number one goalie?
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think Stevens will be on the chopping block unfortunately if things end badly. I know he’s a great person and he may be a great coach, but maybe he’s not the right coach for this team. Maybe they need more of a Hitchcock-like drill sargeant since they play so undisciplined.
GM definitely deserves some blame, but I don’t blame him for the goalie thing. I blame for lack of defense. There aren’t many number one goalies out there. I mean, Osgood’s no shut down goaltender, but the Wings win with great defense.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your title but...
The questions you ask, I feel, are the wrong ones. Alberts is our 6th defenseman. he was brought in due to injuries (we had Vaananen, Sbisa, and Kukkonen. whoooo!) and either way, he shouldn’t even be named in the playoffs. (meaning, you know he’s doing his job when you don’t notice him) Cap space, that’s a problem, but this team is underperforming. It’s not that they can’t go get someone (even though they can’t), it’s that the players here aren’t playing like they should. Lastly, Game 1 wasn’t Marty’s fault. He didn’t look great, but it was just an all around bad effort.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 16, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI guys – Carcillo is meeting with NHL today to discuss hit on Talbot.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
by FrankD on Apr 16, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I saw that
I think it’s a little ridiculous, though, to tell you the truth. It wasn’t that big of a hit, and “message sending” or whatever warning given before the game…just because Carcillo was on the ice at the end of the game…that’s akin to “message sending”? It’s BS.
Not that losing Carcillo is that big a deal, mind you. He hasn’t played all that well, save a few games.
If this hit was such a big deal, why wasn’t he penalized on the ice? The NHL officiating is almost as bad as the NBA.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t think so either. Like I said in that post I kinda felt the Staal hit was worthy of a second look, if anything at all. I couldn’t really tell if Carcillo got the stick up in Talbot’s face or if he just punched/pushed him up high right off the faceoff. Either way I don’t really see anything coming of it.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
by FrankD on Apr 16, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Frank, not to get any conspiracy theories going, but if anything does come of it, I will find it somewhat suspicious.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Of course. Versus, the league and the officials are on Pitt’s side. Everyone knows that.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
by FrankD on Apr 16, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, the NHL is cheating. Please.
I’ve advocated for a long time (not necessarily online where anyone can find it, but nevertheless) that end-of-game theatrics such as the Flyers put on last night should be punished and harshly, as there’s absolutely no recourse during the game. Who cares if I go to the penalty box for 25 seconds if it means you might be missing a player in two days because of a cheap shot?
Some teams are more prone to doing this sort of thing than others. Stevens needs to look at himself in the mirror and ask himself why he lets that sort of thing go on.
Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!
by JustinM on Apr 16, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you cant ban emotion from the game
we are not going down without a fight, so perhaps the pens can sort things out in the prone position if need be. its part of the game. move to europe if you dont like it.
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So breaking the rules is okay if it’s in the last minute of the game? Some of us think vigilante justice is stupid and medieval. Move to the 13th century if you don’t like it.
Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!
by JustinM on Apr 16, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since that isn’t metaphysically possible (going back to the 13th century), I think we’re going to have to accept the suspension even though we don’t totally know everything that goes down on the ice. You know, the cameras don’t catch everything and the Penguins certainly aren’t angels and can get away with things because the refs don’t expect it of them. I guess it comes with reputation of the Flyers—some of it is earned, but Justin, seriously, some of it is bullshit.
I’m no fan of Carcillo—I don’t really care that he’s suspended—he’s certainly earned his reputation (I wouldn’t say he’s dirty, but he doesn’t think much when he’s on the ice), but he’s not a goon. He has some actual talent unlike most “enforcers” in the league. But I don’t think Stevens is the guy who can channel this talent. Will they bring on a coach that can? Not a question that I can answer with any sort of certainty. One thing I do know, however, is that the Flyers will always have an enforcer. It’s just how Snider rolls. And Guerin is one, too, don’t you think? Like Roberts last year, and I know how much you guys were missing him this season…at least my Pens fans friends said as much.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I haven’t seen Guerin enough recently to know if he really fits the Roberts mold. If you were going to pick a player to compare, reputation-wise, I’d say it’s Cooke. He’s been known to get tossed in the box for basically nothing, just because of his rep.
Now, I don’t know if I agree with the Carcillo thing or not. Frankly, worse stuff happened than that, but the fact that he was out there at the end of a game, taking a faceoff when he hadn’t taken one the whole game…it’s all circumstantial evidence, but it looks bad.
And yes, I know the Flyers’ rep isn’t all true. I mean, that’s true of anything you can be critical about. Crosby whined to refs more than he should have in his rookie season. He doesn’t do that much anymore (outside of what’s expected of him as captain), but if you ask people in other cities, he’s an incorrigible whiner. Oh, and he takes dives and is generally a boring douche.
It works the other way, too. Brodeur’s the best goalie ever! Except, he hasn’t been the best in the league in years, and he might not even be the best on his own team anymore.
Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!
by JustinM on Apr 17, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on guys…dont blame the officials for our getting dominated. while its true there is an NHL rule stating physical contact with Crosby/Malkin is not allowed, most of the penalties had nothing to do with those two. the only bad call that I can remember was the first hooking call on Asham (I dare someone to try and defend that call).
sure Versus was sucking Pittsburgh’s dick but there a TV network, their job is to get people to watch the games. theyd much rather see Pittsburgh advance because lets face it…Crosby and Malkin are much more marketable then Richards/Carter. besides, there really werent many good things they could have possibly said about the flyers. not one player played well last night.
it all comes back to attitude and coaching. there needs to be accountability after these last two games. John Stevens needs to look these players in the eye and say “YOU failed. YOU didnt get the job done, YOU need to go out and play with intensity”. And that Intensity is not going to come from Carcillo and other “energy” players who go out there looking for the big hit in place of any productive hockey play. it needs to come from the guys at the top.
and for gods sake lets shut these arrogant pittsburgh fans up. They tend to forget that before Crosby they were on the verge of leaving Pittsburgh with a fledgling, bankrupt franchise/fanbase. lets send them back to those days
by njh3293 on Apr 16, 2009 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Except that the team was never going anywhere and it was all a ploy to get the arena. Even Mario admitted as such (and he’d better hope now that he never has to negotiate another similar deal).
And yes, I’ve been a fan since the late 80s, so I know all about what happened before Sid got to town.
Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!
by JustinM on Apr 16, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they hate philly, lets face it
ok- yes its all nice and fine to talk about sid and nancy the whole game, but the one VS. dude was going on and on about kunitz for at least a minute… while the game was in action, i cant listen to that idol chit chat while the game is being played. EYE DONT CARE
I for one am sick of hearing doc or the caps dude in a neutral network during a flyers game. those guys werent as bad as the dude on VS. last night though…
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the score
van massenhoven 2
flyers 0
look, i just want it to be called the same for both teams. gonchar takes giroux down, nothing happens. not 10 seconds later, someone touches malkin, and the arm goes up.
it’s frustrating when you are continually on the side of getting screwed (See Asham and Hartnell, period 1 last night)
World F#$king Champions
by psudrozz on Apr 16, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t remember the hit on Giroux, but you know that it’s not a penalty every time someone falls down, right? And what about the cross check to Cooke’s face? Or the Flyer who punched Cooke in the face RIGHT IN FRONT of the ref that was holding them apart? Cooke got penalized on that play, and the Flyer didn’t.
This bias BS is just that. BS. This game, like almost all the ones I’ve seen this year, was poorly officiated. Why can’t that be enough for you? Why does your team have to be the victim? Because you lost? Please.
Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!
by JustinM on Apr 16, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was poorly officiated on both sides
You are right. But I just think the refs should penalize the player on the ice if there’s going to be a suspension days later. There’s no reason why both can’t happen. If it’s enough to suspend the guy, it’s enough to penalize him. You get me?
Basically, what I was saying, is that the league’s officiating has gotten so bad, it leaves room for ambiguity as it were. Why give people room to make conspiracies?
And I never said we lost because of officiating—the team played into the Pens hands and played a very undisciplined game which they can not and should not do—and it kept them playing on their heels all night. That’s why they lost.
And I place the blame squarely on John Stevens. See my posts above.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we can all agree the Flyers got their asses kicked in this one. even if no penalties were called the score would not have been different.
referees treat different players differently, it happens in all sports. THats why Lebron James and Kobe Bryant are allowed to take 8 steps on their way to the basket. Thats why the strikezone changes with each pitcher/batter.
The Flyers have a reputation. its partially deserved, but it’s also partial BS. The hit on Giroux was questionable. it wasnt a blatant penalty but it definitly could have been called as such. I have no doubt in my mind that if it were Carcillo or Hartnell doing that to Crosby it would have been a penalty, but thats just the way the game works. Giroux doesnt have the reputation as an NHL golden boy so he doesnt get as many calls in his favor.
I can only hope the FLyers arent complaining and blaming the refs like the fans are.
their were questionable calls both ways. Sure more of them probably went in Pittsburgh’s favor but when your playing on the road against the royalty that is Princess Crosby, the calls just arent going to go your way. good teams figure out ways to get around that. Lets hope the FLyers are one of those teams
by njh3293 on Apr 16, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Princess? Nice one. Haven’t heard that before.
At least when we call Hartnell “Fartsmell”, we’re doing it because he thought it was funny, too.
Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!
by JustinM on Apr 16, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn’t at first. It took him a while to warm up to it.
Cindy will grow into it. It’s not his fault his momma gave him a girl’s name. Come on, how many guys do you know who have the name Sydney? It’s just MADE for jokes.
I’ve always thought Sideshow Bob was a better nickname for Hartnell. My Lord, is he ugly. I love him (at times, not last night, though), but he definitely outkicked his coverage with his wife.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sidney, you mean? Plenty. Sure, not as many as Mike or Jim, but it’s not exactly uncommon.
I’ll definitely have to do, uh, research on Hartnell’s wife, though. :)
Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!
by JustinM on Apr 16, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I researched that moments after Travis mentioned it. I can see that being a subject I’ll continue to research in the future.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
by FrankD on Apr 16, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
She’s pretty cute, right? Apparently he met her at Abercrombie and Fitch or whatever. She worked there.
Like all villains in the movies, Hartnell is a sweetheart in real life. Amazing how they transform themselves on the ice/film. Wish I could beat someone up daily to get out my aggression.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://flyers.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?catid=772&id=39374
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog
Because the Broad Street Subway is orange for a reason.
by Travis Hughes on Apr 16, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay i've calmed down a bit
yes, i do know that it’s not a penalty every time someone falls down.
and yes, the game was poorly officiated, and as you pointed out, there were missed calls on both sides.
my point is that the same ref has now been responsible in consecutive games for making a bad call early on that handcuffed the flyers. i remember the giroux scenario quite vivdly, and yes it was horrible. again, the no calls went both ways.
still, had the early asham penalty call not been made, the flyers most likely would not have won. where we were listless, the pens were strong.
personally, i always liked “shirley” crosby.
World F#$king Champions
by psudrozz on Apr 16, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, typo. Same name. I don’t know any and I’m 37 years old. And I went to Villanova. And I’m a girl, so I know a girl’s name when I see it. It’s OK to make fun of a name of a rival team’s player, especially when I dislike him so intensely. I’m sure you don’t make fun of Hartnell because you love him.
Hartnell’s wife was on the episode of Day in the Life when they featured Scotty on the NHL Network. She’s pretty cute, although most hockey wives are. They are definitely the hottest wives in any sport, to be sure.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 1:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
totally agree
Crosby is a pompous ass… worse then gretzky ever was….
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Such is the ridicule you subject yourself to for being good…
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
by FrankD on Apr 16, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who, me? Kidding about what? Or is Frank kidding?
I have trouble following these reply threads sometimes.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was directed towards me
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
by FrankD on Apr 16, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Crosby is very good and that it does subject you toward ridicule—people in Philly don’t boo players that don’t matter. That’s just how it is here.
However, he isn’t Gretzky yet, either, and I think the NHL is doing him and the Pens a disservice for knighting him so early in his career. Like Lindros before him, it’s difficult to live up to a reputation.
There was only one Gretzky.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, there was only one Gretz
but he was a real jerk to folks at parties…
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
Unlike Eric Lindros though, Pittsburgh seems to have been able to build a pretty good club around Crosby. With the exception of Sergei Gonchar, their stars are home-grown: Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury…
The Flyers never had the necessary depth to build a winning team around E, and if they did make any trades they would not have gotten any better. Everyone wanted Brind’Amour or one of our second-line guys at the very least, and our second line was pretty thin to begin with. Brindy, Dale Hawerchuk v. 2.0 (the old version), and Pat Falloon. Whoopeee.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Apr 16, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, those were some lean years. Hopefully, this club will find a way to win it all sooner rather than later. I think they will.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
Despite the ups and downs, I think the team is moving in the right direction. To tell you the truth I did not expect a deep playoff run this year, and that was even before the season started. At heart, we are a young team (average age = 26, according to the Inquirer) and we need to go through some growing pains. But the X factor is how Holmgren will right the wrongs of the Good Ship Flyers in the offseason. If he makes the right moves, we could easily get back to the ECF or even the Stanley Cup Finals next year. This remains to be seen.
Consider everything they’ve been through: The loss of key veterans (Hatcher, Smith) and fan favorites (Umberger) in the offseason; An injured 3rd defensive pair to start the season; the A first-year captain on a team beset with high expectations; an 0-3-3 start; the temporary losses of popular players (Sbisa) and permanent losses of others (Metropolit, Vaananen, Upshall); injuries galore in mid-season; salary cap hell; and probably some other stuff I’m missing. Quite frankly, it’s a lot for a young team (and a relatively young coach) to go through. While you don’t want to make excuses, consider all of this and it’s not that hard to figure out why the team has been so inconsistent.
While we do have veterans, remember that the core of the team are all young guys; with the permanent addition of Giroux and Parent and the working-in of guys like JVR and Sbisa, it’s going to get younger. These growing pains are something that every team goes through. Look at Detroit from the early-to-mid 1990s. They had a lot of talent but always fizzled out early until 1995. We need to be patient – we’re not in a situation where we have to “win right now or rebuild,” like Calgary and Montreal are.
It would be funny if the Flyers’ theme song this season was the theme from Growing Pains. Hey, Alan Thicke plays hockey. Why not?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Apr 16, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s certainly a good point there. Of course, the Pens traded their leading scorer (along with a couple other guys) back in the day to get Ron Francis and Ulf Samuelsson. Sometimes you have to give up players that hurt in order to make Cup runs.
Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!
by JustinM on Apr 16, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade?
Ron Francis: Traded to Pittsburgh by Hartford with Grant Jennings and Ulf Samuelsson for John Cullen, Jeff Parker and Zarley Zalapski, March 4, 1991.
By “leading scorer” I’m assuming you mean Cullen. Mario Lemieux was out for the better part of that season (1990-91) if memory serves. But still, you had Mario, Jaromir Jagr, Tom Barrasso, Mark Recchi, Kevin Stevens, and others on that team. I was going on 15 years old that season, and I remember thinking “Hartford got robbed on that deal.”
The point is that the Penguins made a deep team even better. The Lindros-led Flyers were nowhere near that level of depth and really couldn’t afford to give up any quality players. They could not do anything to make the team better; at best, they would stay the same. If not for the Legion of Doom and, later, Lindros, LeClair and whoever skated with them, those teams would not have been very good.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Apr 16, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh man, don’t bring up the Hartford deal to the guy who runs the Florida Panthers blog on SBN. He’s still pretty bitter about it. Can you tell? His name is Whale4ever.
At the time that really was a steal for the Pens. That trade even found some new life last season when a lot of people compared it to the more recent Hossa/Dupuis for Armstrong/Christensen/Angelo Esposito move. I didn’t buy it then and (obviously) don’t buy it now because it wasn’t the same. Hossa was an obvious rental player. The Pens brought on Ronnie Franchise and he stuck it out for eight seasons.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
by FrankD on Apr 17, 2009 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
never may i direct a dispute to a lovely nova chick
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. Yes I am
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
by FrankD on Apr 16, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just checking
because you got 3 more wins to go
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah I know, but I thought following up a comment about someone being pompous with a mock-pompous comment of my own would at least get a chuckle. Oh well. I can see we’re a very sensitive bunch here.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
by FrankD on Apr 16, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think we’re oversensitive; I just think there was some confusion over the post. I really didn’t get the sarcasm of it and it’s difficult sometimes to convey that nuance via a blog post.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on guy
like douleh said, sid was born in the NHL with a silver spoon in his mouth.
there is no air of pomposity to that statement as i was never the poster boy to the have-been struggling league even when philly has and always will have a strong and financially secure franchise.
trout slap
by fitzy first on Apr 16, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you’re right. Sid certainly got a head start as far as marketing goes. At the same time, either
a) that’s his fault for being a ridiculously savvy businessman even while he was a minor, or
b) it’s not his fault and it was thrust upon him.
Choice a) is certainly possible, as he’s a smart kid and knows the right thing to say pretty much all the time, but he’s still prone to occasional fits of pique not unlike a typical teenager, and that leads me to believe that a lot of his persona was forced upon him rather than the other way around. Not to make tons of excuses for him, and not to put words in his (boring) mouth, but it seems to me lately that he’s rather tired of it and the feelings it engenders in fans around the league. Can’t say that I’d blame him if that’s the case.
Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!
by JustinM on Apr 16, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that’s what I said. I believe he was thrust into this position by a desperate league that needs to stay relevant despite the lockout, salary cap, people for/against fighting, crappy shootout, etc., etc. While I can understand why, it’s not something a kid is EVER really ready for and it’s unfair to him in the long run, regardless of how his career unfolds.
What I don’t understand is why more than two guys (Ovie/Crosby) can’t share the load of being the “superstars” of the league. Like, spread the wealth and responsibility…there are lots of really talented players on other teams…and even a few on the Flyers ;-)…that could help to promote hockey worldwide.
by doubleh on Apr 16, 2009 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True, but the NHL has always been that way. People who were not familiar with hockey knew Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux and that was it. That’s a shame for all of the talented 1980s players who were neglected by the limelight. But they probably would have wanted it that way anyhow.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Apr 16, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s taking a direct page from the NBA playbook. Say you’re watching an NBA game between the Cavs and Lakers. You don’t think Cavs versus Lakers, you think Lebron versus Kobe. The NBA is all about marketing their superstars and they do a brilliant job of it, and Bettman knows that tactic well from working under David Stern.
But I don’t think it’s really a good move for the NHL because, in hockey unlike in basketball, it’s very rare that one individual takes over a game. If the Cavs play a terrible game but Lebron drops 50 points, they can win the game. That doesn’t happen in hockey since it’s a more team oriented game, and I think the NHL should be marketing things like rivalries (player rivalries, sure, but more so regional and team rivalries) and history and just the game itself.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog
Because the Broad Street Subway is orange for a reason.
by Travis Hughes on Apr 16, 2009 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I agree.
It’s just that the NHL has always been that way. I definitely think they should focus on teams, not just the marquee players.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Apr 16, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you read Marty Brodeur’s book (sounds like punishment) he admits that he had a large part in making players the center of marketing and promotion for the league. I dunno I believe him entirely, because Phil Esposito kinda made similar remarks in his book.
Either way, I agree that the league should market teams and not just players. But it will always be “Sidney Crosby’s Penguins” no matter how many scoring titles Malkin picks up. It will always be LeBron James’ Cavs and Big Ben’s Steelers. Just the way it goes I suppose.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
by FrankD on Apr 17, 2009 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec’d.
Yeah, you’re exactly right. Crosby might not even be the best player on the team most nights, but Malkin doesn’t get much national attention anyway. Forget Fleury—most writers think he’s trash!
Carter and Richards, for starters, could be marketed. Especially Richards. What a player this year.
Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!
by JustinM on Apr 17, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
7 PM on friday night really needs to come around already so I can get this foul taste of losing out of my mouth
by njh3293 on Apr 16, 2009 2:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Flyers Beat Themselves
I agree with everyone on here. The officiating in the NHL is horrible. In the end, everyone is cheated that way. There seems to be more “Home Cookin’” from the referees now, unless you’re Philly or Anaheim. Home teams do get more power plays. The only consolation I took from the game is that Pittsburgh’s PP did not look that great. Their only goal was a fluke, and the the most part the Flyers didn’t give up any really good chances.
But the Penguins wanted it more, and they got it. The better team won last night. Let’s hope that the truly best team wins the series, and that the Flyers play to their potential.
Re: “Mutiny,” it wouldn’t be the first time this happened. (2001-02 ring a bell for anyone? 2 goals in 5 games against Ottawa? Everyone throwing Bill Barber under the bus afterwards?) I don’t see it because the players like Stevens. But maybe that’s the problem – the best coaches in the league are not the most well-liked. I don’t think Mike Babcock is Mr. Personality, for example. Scotty Bowman certainly was not, and all he did was win more championships than any coach in league history.
I feel the same way about Stevens that I do about Biron – I really like the guy as a person, and I really wish he were the guy to take us to the promised land, but I don’t see it happening.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Apr 16, 2009 4:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Pens’ PP has been just short of awful all season, even against poor PKs. The only thing PHI can do better is to score some shorties, which isn’t beyond the realm of possibility at all.
Pittsburgh Black And Gold -- So new, it still smells like paint!
by JustinM on Apr 16, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Richards did score a pretty sick shortie in Game 2 of last year’s series… May history repeat itself!
(Although, if history does repeat itself, we’ll lose that game too. Never mind.)
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Apr 16, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember that goal. I also remember the one Malkin scored after Richards sent him into the boards. The slapper that went through Biron, not past. Don’t think that was the same game (I’m thinking Game 3 for some reason) but both were equally impressive.
Follow the Penguins on SBN @ Pensburgh.com
by FrankD on Apr 17, 2009 2:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
since we're comparing lindros and crosby in the same sentence
consider what the call would be on ice if one of phillys D guys makes the same shoulder to head check on Sid the Kid as Scott Stevens did on Lindros…
hmmmmmm, no call?!?! right… think again…
by fitzy first on Apr 17, 2009 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Join the community and dive in!
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Broad Street Hockey
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New Jersey
|
58 | 36 | 20 | 2 | 74 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
59 | 35 | 22 | 2 | 72 |
|
Philadelphia
|
57 | 29 | 25 | 3 | 61 |
|
New York Rangers
|
59 | 26 | 26 | 7 | 59 |
|
New York Islanders
|
58 | 23 | 27 | 8 | 54 |
(updated 2.9.2010 at 9:00 AM EST)
Flyers Schedule
Next 5 Games
|
@
New Jersey
|
Wed 02/10 | 7:00 PM EST |
|
Montreal
|
Fri 02/12 | 6:00 PM EST |
|
@
Montreal
|
Sat 02/13 | 7:00 PM EST |
|
@
Tampa Bay
|
Tue 03/02 | 7:30 PM EST |
|
@
Florida
|
Wed 03/03 | 7:30 PM EST |
Last 5 Games
|
New Jersey
|
Mon 02/08 | W 3 - 2 |
|
@
Minnesota
|
Sat 02/06 | L 1 - 2 |
|
@
Edmonton
|
Wed 02/03 | L 0 - 1 |
|
@
Calgary
|
Mon 02/01 | W 3 - 0 |
|
New York Islanders
|
Sat 01/30 | W 2 - 1 |
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
