A look ahead to the off-season
I know we have all summer to mull over this kind of stuff but the sooner we get to preparing for next season the sooner the sting of this loss fades.
Here is what I think the Flyers need to do with some of their "bubble" players.
Antero Nittymaki-let him walk. he has talent but he cant put it together for long stretches, everytime he's handed the #1 job he coughs it back up.
Marty Biron- I say keep him. sure hes not "great" but the best a goaltender can do for a team is put you in position to win, and Biron does that. hes shown he has the capability to rise to the occasion and play like a star when he needs to.
(in the long term I think the Flyers should just draft a young goaltender and develop him through their system. Biron is good enough to hold down the fort till he's ready)
Joffrey Lupol- This is the most obvious one being as he was trade bait all season long, but Lupol is likely gone after this season. he's a good player but he doesnt do anything thats irreplacable. he makes way to much money, it just isnt gonna work out for Lupol.
Matt Carle- I was really dissapointed with Matt Carle all season long but he was great in the playoffs. Still, he's due to make a lot of money next year and like Lupol, he isnt anything special. he also has some trade value being as hes only 24.
Mike Knuble- THis is going to be a tough decision. if he offers to take a huge paycut and finish his career here im all for bringing him back, he's our only true power forward and he does a lot for the team. but if another team wants to throw him a lot of cash we may have to let him walk. the reality is he doesnt have too many years left and in a salary cap league you need to constantly try and get younger.
Randy Jones-Just get rid of him. I know it won;t happen, but a guy can dream.
John Stevens-I could go back and forth on this one but in the end I say keep Stevens for atleast one more year. I do believe that he deserves the blame for much of the things that plagued and ultimately doomed the Flyers this year (discipline, long lapses in games, overall inconsistency) but he has also effectively weathered the storm through a lot of adversity the last two seasons. The Flyers are still very young and inexperienced, as is John Stevens. The hope is that John Stevens will really blossom into a winning coach and the Flyers learn how to be a contender. I give him one more year, but keep him on a short leash.
Overall I think the Focus of the Off-season should be defense. Our Defenseman are all cut from the Ryan Parent mold-small, quick, one on one defenders who aren't very good with the puck and aren't overly big. I love Parent but we need some more versatility back there. We need more of a physical presence, and we need another puck mover. Getting the puck out of our zone cleanly was the Flyers biggest problem this season. Jay Bouwmeester is a free agent and I think the Flyers should go hard after him. they may have to get into a bidding war with teams like Vancouver, Calgary, and Toronto but I have the confidence that Homer can make it work. If not Bouwmeester, Chris Pronger may be available for trade and Tomas Kaberle is a free agent. we need to upgrade our defense badly.
I also think we need some more veteran leadership/grit on the wings. Look at how much having a proven veteran scorer like Bill Guerin helped the penguins.
Like I said above, if we dont trade our 1st round pick we should use it on a goaltender. Lets find a guy we really like, and properly bring him up through the system. Its time we stop trying to find a quick fix with our goaltenders.
the loss stings but soon enough our boys will be back on the ice.
Go Flyers
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Off-season
Get rid of Nitty, Lupul, Jones and Briere. Keep Carle, Knuble and Biron. Nitty isn’t consistent enough to ever win the job from Biron. Lupul sucks and makes waaaay too much money. Same goes for Jones. Briere needs to go because he doesn’t play physical enough and we need room to sign Jay Jay Bouwmeester. The team really needs to improve the defense over the off-season and J Bo would be a perfect addition.
by wash088 on Apr 25, 2009 8:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
highly disagree
lose biron and knuble… keep the young guys
by fitzy first on Apr 26, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Briere has a NMC and a terrrrrrible contract. I don’t see there being any way you can move him. It may even be easier for the Caps to move Nylander than for the Flyers to move Briere. Kaberle is not a UFA this off-season, he has one more year left, and he’s soft as warm butter; he’s basically just a PP specialist and your PP is already very solid. I don’t think Flyers fans would be too happy with him for too long. As it stands PHI doesn’t have a ton of cap room to sign new FAs, much less Bowmaster. You should also consider Mike Komisarek, he’s going to be the second most attractive D UFA but he will probably attract a lot of bidders. I hope you guys let Knuble go… I wouldn’t mind seeing the Caps sign him for 2 years. I have a feeling Lupul is gone, he’s superfluous on a team with all that offensive skill. Carle may get traded but I doubt you’d get value for him at this point. You definitely need to finally start drafting goalies. GMGM abused Holmgren in that Draft Day trade this last draft. John Carlson is amazing but just as important for you guys, there was at least one stud goalie still available (selected by DET, of course). It’ll be interesting.
by Fehr and Balanced on Apr 25, 2009 9:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
game six
sorry guys,philly is a good team but crosby burned u again lol..say what u want about him…his stats do the talkin for him GO PENS
by GO PENS! on Apr 25, 2009 9:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know where people are getting this. Look at everyone of Crosby’s goals in the series. Game 1: He kicked the puck in; an illegal goal that stood. Game 4: Impedes Biron’s ability to save the puck by crashing him. Game 6: Impressive but lucky baseball swat goal and an empty netter. He had 4 assists in the series which is good but nothing impressive and was a +2 (only after today, which includes an empty netter). Now, I ask, how did Crosby burn us? Its not like he is one of those players that does everything and cannot be defined by his stats. With the amount of ice time that he gets and the player that he is touted to be his numbers were nothing special. How does Crosby get credit for powering the Penguins past the Flyers? It is incredible to see how blind the media and so many people are.
Wake up and smell the coffee. Look at the stats and watch the game of hockey for what it is before you go around proclaiming what the media tells you . . .
by flyrsfrk05 on Apr 26, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, well put. Crosby didn’t do shit this series. Fleury was by far the star of the series. And if this highly creative individual wanted to spew the media’s lines, Malkin was about 3 times better than Crosby this series.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 26, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not like he is one of those players that does everything and cannot be defined by his stats.
Crosby won 99 faceoffs (63.5%, best of any regular center in the playoffs). The next highest player in the league has won 5 (Jordan Staal and John Madden). Crosby was taking -and usually winning-every big draw. So to say he only contributes goals and assists is a little off.
Crosby didn’t dominate the series, but he did score 8 points in 6 games, including 6 even strength points.
I agree with you that Fleury was the best Penguin of the series, but Malkin and Crosby were not stopped or really even contained by the Flyers. Especially considering the little production that Jeff Carter and Mike Richards supplied.
by Hooks Orpik on Apr 26, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know Hooks, you are one of the few Pens visitors here who can actually put together a reasoned argument. Everything does not boil down to goals, and I agree that Crosby had a really good series, and stepped his game up when his team needed it. Malkin was better, and Fleury certainly stole the series, but underplaying Crosby’s contribution is absurd.
With that said, too many numbskulls who clearly don’t know hockey, spewing nonsense about how Crosby is the greatest player since super Mario, and people start to get a little annoyed. Crosby is good, but he has a long way to go before he can be considered to be in the caliber of Mario or Jaromir.
As a Pennsylvanian, I’d love to throw my support behind the team that ousted the Flyers, and it’s kinda sad that there isn’t more intrastate civility. You would think that there’d be a little begruding respect from Pittsburgh people, for the way the Flyers fans have supported the franchise during this incredible drought,in a way that should be the gold standard in the nhl. Year in year out, you have sellouts and season tickets, and Prism/Comcast deals for home games, and high subscriber rates.
It’s great to have such an incredible rivalry, but when you’ve had the incredible good fortune of having both a hockey, football and baseball dynasties, a little bit of class and taking the high road wouldn’t hurt. I don’t begrudge Pens fans enjoying their team’s success, but when you have a franchise that was bankrupt, almost left the city, and you benefit from having a streak of piss poor seasons to the degree that you end up with a motherload of top 3 draft picks, you shouldn’t gloat too much when you manage to drag yourself out of the cellar.
I know that there are idiotic Flyers fans out there, and there was a lot of ribbing going back and forth, but far too much coming from the Pens fan side amounts to: your team sucks, your city is a shithole, and Flyers fans are scum. It gets really really old, and it’s pretty much everywhere online that there’s people talking about the Pens and Flyers. At least so far, these blogs have had a bit less of it.
Well anyways, a long rant, but not directed at you Hooks. In a couple more days when the pain subsides a bit more, I’ll hopefully be pulling for the Pens, although I will also be pulling for Chicago, just out of a desire to see that great old franchise experience some long overdue success.
by Gizmoitus on Apr 28, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You said literally everything I’ve been thinking. Bravo, sir.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on May 1, 2009 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off-season
1. Ditch Niittymaki. Replace him with Craig Anderson. I guess keep Biron, since there really isn’t anyone better available. Anderson can get at least as hot as Niitty if not more so, and he’s had save percentages over .930 during the past two seasons with a non-playoff team.
2. If the Flyers are going to go after a Komisarek or Bouwmeester then they should do so in the same way they acquired Hartnell and Timonen – trade for their rights before July 1, with the idea that they will be signed. This would be a good way to move Lupul, as Florida and Montreal can both use scoring help.
3. You forgot Andrew Alberts. Let him walk. He’s either really solid or really lousy, and when he’s really lousy he costs his team. Same goes for Lasse Kukkonen. Keep Jones. He isn’t great but he’s the best of those three.
Defense pairings next year:
Timonen-Bouwmeester/Komisarek
Coburn-Carle
Jones-Parent
7th guy: Sbisa
4. Much as I hate to say it, Knuble’s gotta go. He started showing his age as the season wore on, and definitely did during the early games in this series.
5. Round out your lineup with some role players, one of whom is a center who can win draws (like Metro did).
Forward Lines:
Gagne-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
Other combinations of players mixed with Powe, Carcillo, and Asham.
6. Keep Stevens for at least one more year. This loss was on the players, not him. I like the attitude and the preparation he brings to each game. It’s not his fault that the players play scared in the face of adversity.
7. Draft a stud goalie and develop him. Get one however you can.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Apr 26, 2009 1:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree
draft a number one ooalie
by fitzy first on Apr 26, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts
1. Keep Biron, let Nittymaaki go, and draft a goalie prospect – The Flyers haven’t developed a bona fide NHL starting goalie in God knows how long. Now is as good a time as any to do it, and Biron can hold down the fort for 2-3 years until that kid is ready.
2. Knuble – The Flyers would like to bring him back, and he wants to come back. He’ll need to take a pay cut, but I could see him back at 2 years for 2 mill per. He’s the Flyers’ only true net-crashing power forward.
3. Defense – Jones might be movable (in our dreams at least) because his contract could provide a nice cap space boost to some team after the 09/10 season. Alberts will be a UFA and I don’t think he’ll be back. Ideally, the Flyers sign either Komisarek or that kid from BU that’s supposedly the greatest thing since sliced bread (he’s indicated he likes the Flyers, as I recall). Sbisa will also probably play the whole year with the big club.
I don’t think the team’s cap situation will fit J-Bo unless they want to have a repeat of this year, or unless they can trade Briere, which seems almost impossible.
4. Lupul/Briere – Like I said, i think the Flyers are stuck with Briere because of the contract. However, Lupul’s is more reasonable at 4 million per, and the Flyers could probably find a suitor for him. If moving him means they have the flexibility to do improve the team in other areas, I wouldn’t be at all stunned to see him go.
Considering the cap situation, I could see at least one of Jared Ross and Andreas Nodl, if not both, on one of the top four lines.
5. Braydon Coburn – I love his game, but I have to think that his skill combined with his affordability means that he is a valuable trade commodity. If there are good offers for him, Holmgren should listen. That doesn’t mean he should come cheaply for anyone, though.
Matt Carle is another possibility to be traded, but he is expensive and played great in the playoffs. Could go either way. I would rather Carle go before Coburn.
6. I’d give Stevens one more shot with this group, because they probably only have one or two more years left together before they’ll get too old/expensive.
by Governator on Apr 26, 2009 1:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that kid from BU that’s supposedly the greatest thing since sliced bread
Do you mean Matt Gilroy (Hobie Baker winner)? He already signed with the Rags.
I totally disagree on your assessment of Coburn. His affordability means you need to keep him. For his cap hit there is no way you can find a comparable contributor. Considering your cap situation you need cheap contributions anywhere you can get them. Sbisa should help in that regard as well. As you noted Briere isn’t going anywhere. I just looked up Lupul’s contract info and 4 more years at 4 mill + is pretty steep for that guy but you should find a taker. That was a terrible move by Holmgren, imo. I think Holmgren came out of the gates fast and turned PHI around but I think since his first year he hasn’t been a particularly good GM. The Lupul and Briere contracts are bad, you still don’t have a goalie, and you are in a bit of cap hell. He also has gotten ripped off in 2 trades in the last year (Upshall for Carcillo and Eminger for a First). I think your group has more than two years before they get too old or expensive. Carter and Richards are clearly the backbone of the team and they are young and not going anywhere.
by Fehr and Balanced on Apr 26, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed in that sense
Coburn is a VERY valuable commodity because of his contract/skill. I’m not saying Holmgren should shop him, especially given the Flyers’ cap situation, but if he gets blown away by someone stepping up with an offer then you do have to think about it.
And yes, I meant Giilroy. Damn it.
My must-do list:
1. Get Randy Jones out of town: It’s nothing personal, but if someone will take that horrible contract, he needs to go.
2. Draft a couple goalies high.
3. Bring back Knuble at this year’s pay or less.
4. See if Briere or Lupul can be flipped for a defender to take Alberts’ spot. Ideally someone who is physical but can skate. We have enough scorers (both short and long term), especially with JVR in the pipeline. Let’s solidify the backline for years to come.
by Governator on Apr 27, 2009 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What!
Coburn, you mean the guy who played nearly 27:00 minutes of playoff hockey a game. You mean the freak of nature 6-5 215lb dman who skates like the damn wind. Any trade for him would have to include a top pick and a top defensemen and no trades like that will come.
by bak8976 on May 1, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coburn
There’s no need to get rid him for any reason. He’s got an affordable contract and he’s our best defenseman outside of Timmonen
by wash088 on Apr 26, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Offseason
Step 1:
Don’t. Panic.
The Flyers have a LOT of really young talent, and the farm system ain’t even bare.
Potential 25-30 goal scorers 2010-2011 assuming player status quo:
Carter
Gagne
Richards
Hartnell
Lupul
Giroux
Briere
vanRiemsdyk (least likely given age, but eh)
Knuble (he might fall off a cliff, but he was supposed to have done that 5 years ago)
That’s a ton of offensive talent right there. Even if just a portion of those guys reach the 30 goal plateau, that’s impressive. If we don’t change a thing, then a year of experience and chemistry building points towards a longer playoff run next year.
Step 2:
Create cap space where you can.
Okay, so maybe Briere is untradeable, but he’s also a dynamic offensive threat. Where can you cut salary? Jones, certainly, if anyone would take him. His replacement is already there in the form of Sbisa. Niitty could be dropped, although I think there’s still potential there and wouldn’t like to see him go. Carle could be traded for another puck-moving d-man, but as was noted he’s so young and just now coming into his own.
I would be against trading Lupul, because I think he’s at the tip of his offensive iceberg. He’s not bad on defense either (a solid 2-way player, albeit not elite). His shot is getting better, he’s very young, and he’s still developing. I think he’s a guy that could break out for 30-odd goals within the next year or two, which brings me to my next point:
It might be time to trade Gagne. He’s coming off an awesome year, and I really don’t want to trade him, but he’s expensive & also coming off a rebound-from-serious-injury year. Given his age and severity of that injury, who knows how much longer he’ll last? Still, I think he’s more of a tradeable commodity than Briere, but that we could simultaenously slide Briere into the LW spot on the 1st line if we have to. Or, hopefully, vanRiemsdyk will impress and can take that spot right over. Getting that cap space could allow us to run for an elite defenseman.
3. Realize our D was good.
We’re young at D as we are at O. We’ll get better there, too. The only real weak links are Jones & Alberts, and Sbisa could take over for either. Still, we do need another D. Hopefully one that could either put the puck in the net or deliver crushing checks, but hopefully he’s elite at whatever it is he does. We have a few hybrid defenders, that can move pucks but don’t put it in the net and that are defensively minded but don’t deliver crushing checks. That’s a good thing, but maybe get one or two that are really good at one or the other (preferably bouwth (badumch))
4. Develop a young goalie
The one thing we’re really lacking is the type of goalie that can take a game over. Even in Biron’s shutout, most of the shots were easy, and the couple incredible saves he made were mitigated by the 4 awful goals he let in in game 6. I know it’s almost impossible to accurately scout goalies, but at this point it doesn’t seem crazy to draft 2-3 really high and hope one of them pans into something worthwhile. Look what a great young goalie can do for franchises: Pittsburgh, Columbus, LA, just to name a few — those’re just a few that can dominate games and singlehandedly win it for us. Biron’s good, but he’s not that type of goalie.
by Alon on Apr 26, 2009 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Trading Gags
An interesting proposition, maybe too interesting.
I like the idea of a guy playing his whole career with 1 team, which is the road Simon is heading down. His pay isn’t outrageous, and his skills haven’t shown any sign of decreasing. He’s been a great player here.
That said, he could probably bring something good in a trade. However, I don’t know who the Flyers play as the number 1 LW if he goes. There are no other lefties on the roster skilled enough to play in his spot, with the exception of Richards. And since Richards is a true center, I don’t think it’s wise to take him out of the middle. I prefer Hartnell as a second-line guy, and I also believe Gagne’s two-way play would be hard to replace.
In short, I think Lupul is more replaceable on the Flyers’ end and more attractive to other teams (age, salary) than Gagne.
by Governator on Apr 27, 2009 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
I would HATE to see Gagne go. I want him to raise the Cup here.
Unlike Lupul, Gagne can still make a difference in the game even if he doesn’t score. Gagne plays at both ends of the ice. If Lupul isn’t scoring, he’s invisible. Even Briere has gotten better at backchecking than Lupul.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Apr 27, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even Briere has gotten better at backchecking than Lupul.
Easy now…IMO Briere still thinks that one of the conditions of his 80 Million dollar contract are that he doesnt have to play defense/hit anyone in order to preserve his good looks.
by njh3293 on Apr 27, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure I saw him backchecking at least once or twice during this series. I know I saw him forechecking a couple of times.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Apr 27, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Offseason
Yeah, I’ve been following this blog for a few months now, since I’m always looking for Flyer info. I dunno, I’m really annoyed at the Lupul hate. The guy is great, and you saw how badly Harty and Carter played with him gone. He does alot of things right, and is a solid player.
Anyway, I’m just frustrated as all hell still. Beating the Caps and the Habs last year was great, especially with all the obvious ref bias, but if there was any team I ever wanted to see the Flyers beat this year, it was the Pens, and they couldn’t get the job done. I’m putting all the blame on Stevens for that mess. I mean, when the flyers go down a goal or two, you can see it on the ice just how much it hurt the team. They rely almost entirely on momentum, which is a surefire sign of a complete lack of discipline.
There seems to be some serious disconnect between the players we have, and the style that’s played. We go down 2-0 against the pens, can’t buy a goal, do everything we can, so to get the momentum which we so desperately need, we send in Asham, right? Or Carcillo, Right? No. We watch the flyers mope around for 50 minutes before scoring a lucky goal. It’s pathetic.
Get rid of Biron. Whatever streak he had last year is clearly gone.
Keep Nitty till we find a better Goalie. He’s proven he’s the better goalie when given faith (the kind of faith you don’t have when you get put back on the 2nd line every bad game.)
Make a trade worth a damn for crying out loud. We hear how big an impact almost every trade made against the teams we play, meanwhile we did jack shit.
Get rid of Gags. He’s going to be Primeau this year or the next.
Asham, Cote, Carcillo. Pick one, dump the other two.
JVR, playing next season, or get rid of him. He’s not going to step up if he keeps getting pampered.
Jones… No one likes Jones. Niether do I. Drop him.
Alberts. Worthless.
by BroadStreetBully on Apr 27, 2009 1:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
its not that we hate Lupol, its the fact that he makes a lot of money and we have needs elsewhere on the team, that makes him expendable.
I for one don’t understand the Andrew Alberts hate. I became a pretty big fan of his down the stretch of the season. sure hes not a beast, but he’s our 6th defenseman. hes big, he hits, he blocks shots, he’s the only real physical presence we have back there. Keep Alberts and dump Jones.
Its also unrealistic for us to expect JVR to be a star next season. I think he has little to no chance of making the Flyers right out of camp. he hasn’t played above the college level and the general consensus is that he regressed some this past season. Thats not to say he won’t be a good player but I think he needs to put in some good time in the minors.
i wish theyd dump Carcillo, we saw down the stretch why Phoenix was so happy to get rid of him. he runs his mouth and takes way too many bad penalties.
and FInally, Im not a huge Briere fan at all and I wish they could find a taker for him. 6.5 million is just too much for someone who is injured for half the season, and is nonexistant in half of the games he actually plays in. We have Giroux who can do the same things Briere does (if not better) for a fraction of the price. I’d honestly be in favor of just dumping Briere for draft picks/cap space. we could then use that cash to go after a big name free agent or two.
by njh3293 on Apr 27, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
Perfect. Lupul is expendable, Alberts is our 6th defenseman (Remember Sbisa will be up all year next year) so stop screaming, JVR won’t be a contributor until 10-11 so don’t put too much pressure on the kid, Carcillo is worthless (we have two exact molds), and Giroux is better at being Briere than Briere is. And makes so much less money.
Very well said.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 27, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree with everything except Gags…he showed no signs this year of anything concussion related…he will be fine and yea JVR better not be the next JD Drew of hockey, well at least we got him to sign with us, but i think hes gonna be something great or a bust and then will send him to NY like Wagner haha. but yea bye Jones i hate you and Alberts ehh at times id keep him
by Dlance04 on May 6, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was sad but...
I am not a capologist by any stretch, but if they can keep this team together for the next two years I would try to stand pat. A lot of these guys are young. They all have shortcomings but they have progressed. I don’t want to tamper with the chemistry too much. I know the Upshall deal needed to be done because of the cap situation we are in, but i really think that move hurt the team from a chemistry standpoint. Do we get any cap relief from Hatcher this year.
by burtonboypa on Apr 27, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
moves to be made
Hatcher has no effect on the cap because he was on IR the whole year so his salary didn’t count anyway. Lupul’s contract increases next season, and Knuble needs to be signed. I’ve heard the Flyers want him back, and they should. He’s still filling his role just fine. He’s not here to be fast in the defensive zone. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Lupul go. Jones or Alberts should be moved to make room for Sbisa. The Flyers need to solidify this as the Holmgren era, not the Clarke era, by keeping young talent instead of trading for quick fixes. They don’t work.
Briere doesn’t fit in his contract. Maybe he could be asked to take a paycut like in football. It’s almost unconscionable that a third liner should make that much money. And the signing is looking bad now that we have so much talent at center and Briere is a logjam for them to play more minutes. Umberger is gone for this reason (plus the money).
Biron — I was really disappointed in Game 6. Some of those goals were awful, especially the third and fourth. Even on the first one he seemed to leave his feet to dive for the puck, which is how it got under his pad. He makes really strange decisions with the puck. We can’t keep underperforming veterans around if we expect to develop. Goalies are almost impossible to predict, but I think it’s time this franchise gets back to FINALLY having a clear #1 goaltender, and a younger one at that.
by flyerspride on Apr 28, 2009 12:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You can’t renegotiate contracts in the NHL like you can in the NFL. Briere has a ridiculous contract, and even if anyone wanted it he has a NMC. You’re stuck with him.
by Fehr and Balanced on Apr 28, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What team have you guys been watching?
Alberts was easily the most consistent defensemen we had, and without a doubt the most physical. Getting rid of him would be a huge step back.
Lupul? Yeah lets get rid of one of the hardest working wings, from the line that for long stretches of the season was the best in the NHL. What do you think happens to that line then?
We all know what they can’t do.
Getting rid of Upshall was a stupid decision that just about derailed the team. Did that move help the Flyers this year? Did it make players feel good about playing for the organization? I’ve heard so many former players who played for the Flyers organization in past decades speak glowingly of what a quality, class act the Flyers are, and then we get the kiss off of a heart and soul guy like Upshall who hears about his trade from a REPORTER. What the hell is going on in the back office? I know how I felt, and I wasn’t friends with the guy like the players on the team. Yes I know it’s a business, but can anyone really continue to argue at this point that dumping Upshall at the 23rd hour of the deadline was the move we absolutely needed to help the team make its run into the playoffs?
One place the team has to make a move, and I think will make a move is at Goaltender. I see one of two things happening — if the french canadien mafia stays together: Gags, Briere and Biron, then we have to dump Nitty. Nitty is Steven’s guy, and he probably has never gotten a fair shake here, but he’s gotta be moved to make room for whomever is going to actually challenge Biron for #1.
Biron had periods this season when he was solid, and even backstopping, but the guy is incredibly unpredictable. He always has issues with his rebounds, and also seems to have a frequent problem knowing where the puck is. He did have a subpar game 6, and while you can’t pin the loss on a single mistake, I’ll probably see him lunging for the puck like a Polar bear batting at a salmon in the river, in my summer nightmares. If he simply stays down in the butterfly there instead of literally pouncing forward, that crappy goal doesn’t go in, and we’re watching game 7.
by Gizmoitus on Apr 28, 2009 1:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would hardly say Alberts was our most consistent defender. I would say, however, that as our 6th defenseman, he was steady. I like him, I think we need a player like him. But he’s a FA and probably won’t be back unless he takes a pay cut.
The Lupul rumor is because he’s getting paid way too much to be as inconsistent as he is. I like him, but he’s not worth $4.25 million. He disappears for long stretches of time and that’s just not good enough for that much money. However, this is all moot since I doubt any team will pick him up a 4 year, 4.25 million contract.
But I agree with the rest of what you said.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 28, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
About drafting a goalie
We can’t draft a goalie, we’re really, really, really, really, bad at it. And this year’s crop doesn’t have a Marc Andre Fluery or a Carey Price so most likely we wouldn’t see a goalie from this years draft for another 5 years at least, so drafting a goalie is out. We need to go out and poach a young goalie if possible (or one of detroit’s goalie scouts, have you seen there goaltending prospects?). You probably won’t keep Biron unless you want him as a starter. I think sign Nitty as a backup and maybe try giving the reigns to a guy like Clemmensen or Anderson. Probably more Clemmensen if your going to try and make a guy the #1 guy. It’d be cheaper (salary cap) to keep nitty and try out a new goalie, then resigning biron and going to get someone else. Gives us the money to maybe go out and get a strong defenseman as well. (And no we don’t have the cash to get Bouwmeester and we won’t anytime soon.)
by Pondhockey on Apr 28, 2009 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don’t be too hard on the scouts. Pretty much everyone is bad at drafting goalies (exceptions are probably limited to SJS and ANA). Drafting goalies well is as much about volume as it is about scouting. You just have to keep bringing in goalies and see who pans out. Even if there was a MAF or C-Price in this draft he wouldn’t be available when you pick. Steve Mason was a 2nd round pick. Jonas Hiller was undrafted. Varlamov was a late first, Neuvrth was an early second. Both Jacob Markstrom and Thomas McCollum were available when you guys picked last year, but you traded the pick for Eminger. The chances have been there. Holmgren just hasn’t taken them.
by Fehr and Balanced on Apr 28, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda my point, we do bring goalies into our system, and they usually end up being great AHL goalies. We just can’t pick one that can be an NHL goalie. OK so maybe attacking the scouts was putting the blame in the wrong spot, maybe we need someone better for goaltender development. I mean we’ve had some pretty promising players just not pan out or fizzle out after there first “rookie” year. It’s just bad that there has been a different goalie in net for every playoff since Hextall, well and now Biron who has started two straight. And let’s be honest Biron isn’t the answer to our goaltending problem. Biron is just the preverbial “Dutch Boy” with his finger in the dam.
by Pondhockey on Apr 28, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Goalie and stuff
I honesty think that Homer wanted Chet Pickard at the draft. Not that Sbisa isn’t going to be a very good Flyer for a long time but IMO Pickard was the guy the Flyers were after. Maybe he could be available this year (with Rinne likely being the long time answer in Nashville anyway). Or maybe they make a move for a guy like Tokarski (TB), they have solid young tenders (Smith, Ramo, Helenius, Mckenna). If not there ae some decent goalies coming in this years draft(Pasquale, Hackett, Stajcer, Roy this kid has a nasty side like Hextal).
I know Homer isn’t going to do this but I think Stevens was one of the reasons that the Flyers lost, let alone not end up higher (2nd or 3rd anyway) in the standings. Stevens does not bring a game plan, he has no system that the players can latch onto and play. Look at the successful teams they all have a system. Detroit plays a puck possesion style and keeps the puck down low with agressive dmen, the Flyers could play this type of system with there deep forward lines and good skating dmen. The Devils are very succesful playing the defensive game, not allowing good scoring chances. The Bruins this year were very agressive against the other teams d, keeping the puck low. Stevens one game wants all offense, the next he wants to play 1-4 and be safe, next game he has no idea what he wants to do. These guys need to learn a system and stick to it. You have 82 games to perfect the system then go into the playoffs knowing what you want to do. Bring in Ted Nolan!!!
by blackandorange on Apr 30, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa, was following along great until that last name you used. If your talking about Patrick’s son then you don’t want him. He’s a jackass french canadian who considers himself a rapper and attacked another goalie that wanted nothing to do with fighting. That kid has trouble written all over him. Does anyone know if anyone has the rights to Jordan Pearce of Notre Dame? He was a damn good goalie there and I haven’t heard anything about him being signed or a free agent?
by Pondhockey on Apr 30, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nevermind, Detroit signed him… How many goalies do they need in there system? Seems like they could have all their NHL and AHL goalies go down with swine flu and still have someone that could step in and play.
by Pondhockey on Apr 30, 2009 3:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Signing goalies is just such a crap shoot. It’s by far the hardest position to gauge.
I mean, look at Henrik Lundqvist, a seventh round pick. He developed later than most and the Rangers 6th overall pick in 2005, Al Montoya, has barely sniffed the NHL and isn’t even in the Rangers organization yet.
Sure, there are busts and surprises all over the draft every year, but with goaltending, it’s so much more out there and things like this seem to happen so much more often. It’s easy to say the Flyers should draft a goaltender, but there’s no timetable on how these guys are going to develop, what speed they’re going to develop at, how their game is going to translate to the NHL, etc.
Do I have another solution to suggest? Not even close, but I don’t think just drafting a goaltender in the first round is the solution. It could be, of course, but there’s an equal chance that it’ll never work out. I think it’s a lot of luck and a lot of being at the right place at the right time when it comes to getting quality, NHL goaltending. And that sucks.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on May 1, 2009 1:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree that drafting goalies is a crap shoot. That’s why (IMO) the best policy is to draft one every year. It doesn’t always have to be a top round guy (as Hank proves) but the volume greatly increases your chances of finding someone. After that I’d say just sign NHL guys to short term deals. Goalies generally play better when they play with a competitive edge. Nothing gives a guy a competitive edge like a contract year looming.
by Fehr and Balanced on May 1, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good goalies drafted after the first or second round
Mike Vernon – 56th overall (third round), 1981 draft
John Vanbiesbrouck – 71st overall (fourth round), 1981 draft
Ron Hextall – 119th overall (sixth round), 1982 draft
Dominik Hasek, 199th overall (tenth round), 1983 draft
Patrick Roy – 51st overall (third round), 1984 draft
Which goalies were picked ahead of these guys?
1981 – Grant Fuhr, Mike Sands (?), Lars Eriksson (?) Corrado Micalef (?)
1982 – Ken Wregget (Why so early?), Mario Gosselin, Dave Meszaros (?), Shawn Kilroy (?), Dave Ross (?)
1983 – Tom Barrasso, Allan Bester (Why so early?), Frank Pietrangelo (Why so early?), Bob Essensa, Darren Puppa, Allan LaRochelle (?), Chris Terreri, Luc Guenette (?) Chris Pusey (?), Grant Blair (?), Terry Taillefer (?), Jeff Hogg (?), Vladislav Tretiak (well before Russians were allowed in the NHL), Jamie Falle (?), Marty Abrams (?), Ralph Vos (?), Dave Roach (?)
1984 – Craig Billington, Daryl Reaugh
Yup, drafting goalies is definitely a crapshoot.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on May 1, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You missed the worst example
Trevor Kidd was drafted 11th in 1990. Martin Brodeur was drafted 20th. Oops.
by Fehr and Balanced on May 1, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy shit: Hasek drafted in ‘83? Puppa in ’83 These years seem so much earlier than I thought. It’s ridiculous to think that the Beezer and Fuhr were drafted in the same year, and that Hasek and Puppa were drafted with Tretiak.
by Geoff Detweiler on May 2, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good call.
Remember in the 1990 draft, there were supposed to be TWO “can’t-miss” goalies – Martin Brodeur and Trevor Kidd. Brodeur went on to be the best player of his time, or maybe even ANY time. Trevor Kidd went on to be… Trevor Kidd.
Notice how Brodeur AND Felix Potvin were selected after Kidder? That’s pretty awful.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on May 1, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha. I responded above before reading this comment. My bad.
by Fehr and Balanced on May 1, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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