Could JVR be a replacement for Knuble?

by Travis Hughes on Apr 29, 2009 7:02 PM EDT in Philadelphia Flyers Commentary

After four seasons as a Philadelphia Flyer, Mike Knuble is set to be a free agent come July 1. He's been quite possibly the teams' most consistent forward over that stretch, notching just about 25 goals every season here and playing all 82 games three of the four years.

But now, he's 36 years old. He made $2.8 million last season and given the contracts of fellow Flyers who have similar production -- or in the case of Joffrey Lupul, less production -- he could be in position to earn a raise from that. The orange and black don't exactly have a lot of space under the salary cap, so giving an aging veteran a raise might not be in the cards.

This isn't a debate about whether or not Knuble deserves a raise or whether or not the Flyers should give him one. The fact of the matter is that there's a large possiblility that Knuble has played his last game as a Flyer.

That might not be a terrible thing, though, considering there might be a poor man's replacement right within our midst. James van Riemsdyk, the Flyers highly touted prospect who is entering the first year of a three year entry-level contract, possesses the same skills as Knuble -- and more. They are both big, powerful forwards who have a knack for putting the puck in the net.

van Riemsdyk, who will make $850k next season, would be about a $2 million discount from Knuble. He's a better all around player, with more speed and more raw skill than Knuble, but there is no guarantee that his skills will translate to the NHL immediately. He's a tall player but he has to put more bulk on his 6'3" frame, and until he does that, he might not be as effective at the worlds highest level of hockey. In that regard, a season with the Phantoms could be what the doctor ordered.

Knuble also provides important veteran leadership to this Flyers team, and that's something that JVR, or any rookie for that matter, cannot possess. He's one of the older players on the team and he's won the Stanley Cup. On a team with such a young and generally inexperienced core , Knuble is a critical asset that cannot be replaced.

Still though, there is also a strong possibility that JVR could make the Flyers out of training camp. He wasn't the number two overall pick in the 2007 draft for no reason. And if he does that, he possesses the size, speed, and talent to take Mike Knuble's spot in the lineup.

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Comments

I think people are really expecting too much from JVR next season. great raw talent yes, but thats the thing…raw. The guy has never played above the college level and the general word on him was that he regressed some by spending so much time against inferior competition. I think he needs to pay his dues in the minors and really refine his skills before coming up to play with the big boys.

When you have a blue-chip prospect the temptation is to bring him up and get him in the lineup right away. the problem with that is they may not be ready right away and this can lead to them picking up bad habits that take years to break. I look at guys like Dainus Zubrus and Justin Williams as examples of this. The Flyers rushed them through the minors which really stunted their growth, leaving the Flyers to give up on them.

Im looking forward to seeing what JVR can do, but lets give him enough time to really grow into his own

by njh3293 on Apr 29, 2009 7:12 PM EDT reply actions

Second That.

I said before when this topic came up, the best case scenario for JVR should be a repeat of Claude Giroux this year. There is no need to rush this kid. Let Andreas Nodl play for 3 months before you put this kid on your top line right out of college.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 29, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Absolutely agree guys.
All the talk about JvR gets me super worried that he not going to live up to the hype. The last time we talked about this I made aware my concerns and someone brought up the example of Patrick Kane and those other young guys that are seriously contributing to NHL clubs now. Does the fact that JvR isn’t already contributing or seems to be developing slowly (not sure if that is a fair assessment considering he only played a few games with the Phantoms) say something about him and that he isn’t as good as, maybe, the Flyers expected? That is a very harsh thing to say at this point, I know, because he is still so young but it kinda just crossed my mind. I have a bad feeling that JvR isn’t gonna be as good as a 2nd overall draft pick should be. Anyone else get that feeling?

Otherwise, I am totally for him spending more time with the Adirondack Phantoms :( and getting his ass kicked a little bit so he can get a small glimpse of what life in the NHL is gonna be like.

by Mitchell Green on Apr 30, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Wow.

Bitching and moaning about Lupul. How fucking original. Seriously, grow a fucking pair or strap a set on and get over yourself.

by BroadStreetBully on Apr 30, 2009 2:33 AM EDT reply actions

I really don’t know why you defend Lupul so strongly. And I don’t think anyone is saying that he is a bad player. He is a great second wing guy and when paired with Carter and Hartnell, they have to be considered one of the most well rounded, gritty lines in the league.

However, you have to look at the numbers. Lupul had a solid sophomore season where he notched 28 goals and 25 assists. And, as a 7th overall draft pick in 2002 I guess ANH or EDM thought he was gonna really break out, giving him a contract that he did not deserve. In money terms Lupul is grossly overpaid when compared to his production. Knuble, not only scores more than Lupul but is quietly one of the most responsible defensive forwards the Flyers have. A case that cannot be paid for Lupul who is a career -45. Also, Knubs brings a type of implacable leadership as well as consistency as Travis said. Knuble is one of the most well rounded players that the Flyers have and even at 36 has plenty in the tank. There might be a case that he legitimately deserves to be paid like Lupul who has never earned the amount of money that he makes.

Its is a matter of facts BroadStreetBully, not mere hating on Lupul. Once Lups proves us wrong he is always going to be under serious scrutiny.

by Mitchell Green on Apr 30, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions

* irreplaceable

. . . damn spell check

by Mitchell Green on Apr 30, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah?

If you look at the numbers, he makes nearly identical pay as Hartnell, and doesn’t cost us as many games. If Lupul is overpaid, then so is Harty.

by BroadStreetBully on Apr 30, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions

[Lupul] doesn’t cost us as many games.

Not really a “stat”. But if you’re talking about penalty minutes, Hartnell had 143 (35 of which are for fighting) to Lupul’s 58 (10 of which are for fighting). But, Hartnell was a +14 to Lupul’s +1. Since the two of them are on the same line, I don’t think you can blame bad luck for the +/- disparity. Also, Hartnell averaged 2 minutes more ice time per game than Lupul, despite spending nearly 3x as much time in the box.

Take that for what it is, but those are the stats.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 30, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions

If Knubs will take a one year deal at a slight paycut, or similar pay, I think if you’re Holmgren you need to do it. For the simple reason that JVR won’t be ready next season, or at least shouldn’t be rushed, and as it was said Knubs provides invaluable veteran leadership…even if he does take the occasional unnecessary offensive zone hooking penalty.

by eac on Apr 30, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions

all wrong about this one. Knuble is a physical presence in the crease and down low. JvR is NOTHING of the sort. he’s actually going to be someone who’s gonna drive the masses crazy – he’s big, but plays soft. that’s what he did throughout his ENTIRE college career. do you think that’s gonna change at a tougher, more physical level? think not.

get him up to speed, get him rolling, then trade him for something we need. that’s what I hope.

by BigsMJ on Apr 30, 2009 4:24 PM EDT reply actions

What's in a name?

I’m a firm believer that one’s name makes one’s destiny, at least in sports. People who are stars in their respective sports have names that sound like they belong in those sports.

Terry Bradshaw? Howie Long? John Elway? Ben Rothelisberger? Clyde Simmons? Andre Waters? Yeah, those guys were football players, and their names sound like those that football players would have.

Mickey Morandini? Craig Counsell? Milt Thompson? Mo Vaughn? Manny Mota? Even if I didn’t know who those guys were, I’d say they sounded like baseball names.

The Flyers have plenty of great hockey names: Simon Gagne. Scott Hartnell. Claude Giroux. Kimmo Timonen. Scottie Upshall (gone but not forgotten).

There were some great hockey names in the 2007 draft. Patrick Kane. Colton Gillies. Sam Gagner. Jakub Voracek. David Perron. Mikael Backlund. Oscar Moller. With the exception of Backlund, all of these guys are in the NHL already. And Backlund is poised to make an impact in the NHL next year.

Now, we are presented with James vanRiemsdyk. He sounds like he could be a shipping mogul; perhaps a golfer or a soccer player; a wealthy dilettante; the snotty older brother of the rich Bergen County girl you had a crush on in college. I’m sorry, I can’t imagine a guy named James vanRiemsdyk being a star in the NHL.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on May 1, 2009 12:47 AM EDT reply actions

850k

If the Flyers get 850k worth of goals out of JVR next year, they should consider themselves VERY lucky. Knuble will be hard to replace, but we need money saved for defense and a goaltender.

http://www.puckdrawn.com - Hockey art and Jersey collecting

by JohnnyGriswold on May 2, 2009 1:32 PM EDT reply actions

Keep Knubs

Mike Knuble provides sorely needed veteran leadership, he’s the best presence they have in front of the goalie for the power play, he plays hard both ways, winning the boards and hitting as well. The team cannot replace him with an untested rookie who can’t possibly replace this combination of talent. Yes, Knuble is getting older, but he’s been very tough, not missing many games or shifts. I think he really wants to stay with the Flyers — Flyers should resign him.

by JerseyDJ on May 10, 2009 12:20 AM EDT reply actions