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Jay Bouwmeester: Worth it?

Jay Bouwmeester

I'll begin by saying I like Bouwmeester.  I think he is a great player who would be a great addition to this team.  He would instantly be our #2 if not #1 defenseman.  But is he worth it?  It is expected that he will ask for an 8 year, $55-60 million salary.  That's at least $7 million a year, making him our highest paid player.  Plus, if the Flyers want to negotiate with Bouwmeester before July 1st, they would have to trade Joffrey Lupul, Danny Briere, or Matt Carle, plus a high draft pick or a top prospect.  That is a lot to give up just to talk to a guy, let alone add a $7 or $8 million price tag on top of a team that had to sign two college kids to one day contracts last year.  First, lets look at Bouwmeester's stats.

 

GP G A PTS +/- PIM TOI PP/G Hits BkS GvA TkA
2008/2009 Regular Season 82 15 27 42 -2 68 26:59 4:16 115 128 51 27

 

Good stats, for sure.  But who can we compare him to?  On the Flyers, I'll use Kimmo Timonen.  They are both the best defenseman on their team, score similar amounts of points, are used in almost every situation, and do the little things right.  They are obviously far apart in age, but in terms of stats, I'm using Kimmo

 

GP G A PTS +/- PIM TOI PP/G Hits BkS GvA TkA
2008/2009 Regular Season 77 3 40 43 19 54 24:31 4:04 65 164 48 30

 

After the jump, further analysis. 

Star-divide

Jay scores more goals than Kimmo, but the point totals remain the same.  That could be the result of a poor Florida team - either nobody could bury JBow's rebounds or nobody else could score so he took a lot of shots.  Jay took 182 shots to Kimmo's 104.  That's a pretty large discrepancy, and could show the quality of his teammates was the problem.  But If Jay comes here, I would expect his point total to stay around the same - with most of his goals turning into assists.  His +/- would suggest that he honestly was on a bad team, and that those numbers would increase if he came here.  While one would certainly hope that is the case, a breakdown of the +/- reveals some telling information.  Numbers courtesy of behindthenet.ca (And Alon for showing me the tables)

GP TOI/60 Rating QualComp QualTeam G/60 A1/60 A2/60 P/60 GFON GAON +/-
Kimmo Timonen 77 14.67 0.41 0.06 0.18 0.05 0.32 0.32 0.70 54 45 9
Jay Bouwmeester 82 18.58 -0.34 0.07 0.12 0.24 0.16 0.32 0.71 60 62 -2

Key: Rating - +/- rating relative to the team; QualComp - Quality of Competition (higher the better); QualTeam - Quality of Teammates on ice

 

In looking at this, Kimmo had a better +/- than his teammates while JBow had a worse one than his teammates.  Only Jay and Jassen Cullimore had a - rating relative to their teammates.  Kimmo, meanwhile, had the highest on the Flyers.  What that would normally tell you is that Jay was going against the other team's best and that his +/- is a result of that.  While Jay did have the highest quality of competition on the Panthers, he played against basically the same people Kimmo did.  The difference was who Kimmo was paired with:  33% better than who Jay was paired with.  But the discrepency with Kimmo's partner doesn't equal Jay's poor +/- rating.

Further, Kimmo had twice as many primary assists per 60 minutes than Jay did.  For a defenseman, that tells me Kimmo either did a much better job setting up his teammates or a lot of his shots were deflected in for goals.  That can not be proven, but is it also a coincidence that if you move the extra .16 A1's Kimmo had to goals, Kimmo would have .21 goals per 60, very similar to JBow.  Obviously, you can't just transfer them over and say they would be goals, but it shows me that both players generated close to the same amount of goals for their team, either by scoring them or setting them up.

This theory is proven with Goals For when On the Ice.  Including power play and shorthanded situations, the Flyers scored 54 goals with Kimmo on the ice, 9 more than they gave up.  The Panthers lost 2 goals when Jay was on the ice, scoring 60 but giving up 62.  Yeah, they scored 6 more goals with him on the ice than the Flyers did with Kimmo - an 11% increase - but Jay was out there for 17 more goals against than Kimmo - a 38% increase.  That is the stat I am most concerned with. 

Without knowing who Jay would be paired with in Philly, these numbers show he wasn't paired with a slouch. (for reference, Braydon Coburn had a QualTeam rating of 0.12 on the year, the result of mostly playing with Sbisa, Carle, and Timonen.) Despite this, he still ended up with a negative +/-.

Lastly, when considering if Bouwmeester is worth it, look at the Flyers contracts going forward.  They owe:

  • Briere $34 million over the next six years, with a $6.5 million cap hit this year
  • Richards $63.6 million over the next eleven years, with a $5.75 million cap hit this year
  • Gagne $10.5 million over the next two years, with a $5.25 million cap hit.  He'll be 31 when he is a UFA
  • Carter $10.5 million over the next two years, with a $5 million cap hit.
  • Lupul $17 million over the next four years, with a $4.25 million cap hit.
  • Hartnell $15.3 over the next four years, with a $4.2 million cap hit.
  • Timonen $22 million over the next four years, with a $6.33 million cap hit.
  • Carle $10.8 million over the next three years, with a $3.44 million cap hit.

That amounts to $40.72 in cap money for this upcoming year on 8 players - Not even half the roster.  That is not including Braydon Coburn, Randy Jones, Ray Emery, Mike Knuble, or an always useful veteran FA center.  If Bouwmeester is added, you have at least $47 million, probably closer to $49 million locked up in 9 players.  Subtract a Lupul or a Briere, you would still have 8 players locked up long term (3 or more years) to contracts over $3 million, just JBow instead.  On top of that, Carter, Giroux, and Sbisa need to be resigned after 10/11, Coburn and Parent after this year, Gagne should be resigned (that's a whole other topic) after 10/11, and we will still need a goalie next year.  With Bouwmeester, the question isn't "Do we trade Lupul and let Knuble go?" it becomes, "How many of our core players do we have to let walk?"

So the better questions are, how do you afford JBow, and is he worth it after looking at those conflicting numbers?

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JBo salary

I have mentioned this before I don’t think Lopul is a core player on this team and his over paid for 20 – 25 goals, so I wouldn’t mind seeing him go. I wouldn’t be to surprised if JBo gets that salary mentioned 7-7.5 million per year I think he will end up with a 6-6.5 nobody is going to get that type of Brian Campbell contract with the cap the way it is. So if we move Lopul and add JBo at that price tag for 3 – 5 years that is fine with me. Don’t forget we can always buyout Danny’s contract in 2 years in order to sign the younger guys and all of them Carter, Giroux, and Coburn would be RFA and easier to keep.

by chrislanci on Jun 25, 2009 7:30 PM EDT reply actions  

I want Bouw, I’ve been enamored with the prospects of him in the orange and black since the beginning of last season.

The simple truth is I whole-heartedly believe the Flyers are a stud defenseman away from being a signifigant cup contender. whether that D-man should be a slick skating puck mover like Bouwmeester or a physical presence like Pronger or Komisarek remains to be seen.

I like Joffrey Lupol but we pretty much know exactly what we’re going to get with him. I dont think the team would suffer too much without him. the biggest problem with trading Lupol is if Knuble leaves as UFA that leaves us very thin on the wings. Finding a taker for Briere’s contract would be a blessing. getting a stud player in return would be even better.

bottom line is, you have to take risks and make some sacrifices to be a championship team. sure trading losing valuable players and throwing big money at top blueliner is a risk but I think its worth it.

but with all that being said, I dont want the flyers to trade for his rights unless theyre 99% sure they can get a deal done

by njh3293 on Jun 25, 2009 7:34 PM EDT reply actions  

I've been quiet on the subject

(ok, so I’ve been quiet on most subjects this summer…)

but I’m not as infatuated with JBo as most Flyers fans seem to be. Yes, he’s a solid defenseman, but I’m just not convinced he’s a serious top defenseman. And especially not at the price he is currently carrying.

To this point, picking up a player with his cap hit is forcing the Flyers to downgrade, or look to downgrade, at other positions. I just feel that there are more “efficient” moves that can be made to improve the defense without forcing our had by moving Briere or Lupul. If we end up moving one of those two, that’s okay (assuming the deal is right). But to say we MUST move one in order to even think about going after JBo is a bit much for me. I just remain unconvinced that he’s the best we can do when you look at both the talent and the price.

…Who the better option is, I don’t know -I’m still looking :)

"...You know, Reemer, someday I'm gonna own a big sports bar."

by IcersGuy on Jun 26, 2009 9:56 AM EDT reply actions  

Gotta agree

. . . IcersGuy. I think that JBO is a great player and would be a wonderful fit as a Flyer. But he is just no worth breaking the bank and disbanding the team for. I think there are other options that are cheaper and can be just as effective as JBO.

Sidenote: Not that this really matters but I heard or read somewhere that one of the reasons JBO wants to go to Western Canada is because there will be less pressure out there. RED FLAG! If the man doesn’t like pressure why is he playing a professional sport. I am sure that I am being dramatic about that but I want a player that is gonna be a man and play his ass off all season, the pressure driving him to be better. I am not interested in giving this guy a crap load of money if he is gonna a softy. I don’t think he will, but I’m just sayin’ . . .

by Mitchell Green on Jun 26, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s not talking about on-ice pressure, he’s talking media and fan pressure. He just wants to play and not be bothered.

by Pondhockey on Jun 26, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even so . . .

Thats what happens when you play a proffesional sport! Just answer the questions and don’t bitch.

What, he thinks that there is gonna be less pressure from the media and fans playing in Canada then in Florida? What?

by Mitchell Green on Jun 26, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

On a side note...

Again, rediculous to keep bringing up his name. We’re not getting him, dude wants probably around 7-8 mil. Means we’d have to clear about 6-8 mil to get him in here. So unless Homer has got some magic hat that can make salary disappear we’ll be watching J-Bo as an opposing player.

by Pondhockey on Jun 26, 2009 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Full comentary

So who should be targeted by the organization? EVERYONE says Jay Bouwmeester. Personally, I disagree. He’s a complete player, one how hits, plays defense, and contributes on offense. He’s someone you create a defense around. Frankly, that isn’t what the Flyers need, since their defense is already anchored by Timonen. They need a compliment to Timonen – someone to do the things he doesn’t, like hit everything that moves and clear the front of the net. So spending an exorbitant amount on a contract with JBo just seems unreasonable to me. ESPECIALLY since there are plenty of other players available. My top choice – Mike Komisarek. He’s 6’4" (just like JBo), but weighs 243 lbs! He led the NHL in hits by a defenseman last season, and led the Canadiens in blocked shots as well. At only 27, he has several useful years ahead of himself. He also accumulated 121 penalty minutes last year – by the odd number, you can tell he fights! He’d make a PERFECT pairing with Timonen. Other appropriate free agent defensemen available include Steve Montador, Christian Backman, and Jordan Leopold. Even Johnny Oduya from the Devils would be a good addition! (Picture trading Lupul and Jones to New Jersey for the rights to Holik, Johnny Oduya, and Mike Clemmenson!)
Well, I guess the fun starts next Wednesday – or tonight, depending mostly on other teams. I do hope that Bouwmeester doesn’t talk to anyone before free agency starts, because if he’s off the table the price to sign the others goes up exponentially. Oh, and Chris Pronger – fuggetabotit!

by penguinsfan on Jun 26, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions  

in my gut i dont think jaybo is worth the salary he’s demanding, hypothetically if he would drop to like 5.5 or under 6, id give my first born for him just because of his demanding talent, but then again I personally am a fan of komi. hes american, and by that stereotype hell hit hard, because we’re rough players. and i relate to komisarek more.
jaybo i feel like would just be another offensive presence which is what we need, but he needs to work on his physical game.
especially if were taking a chance on emery itd be reassuring to him if we went out and got a guy to clear the crease for him (even though he’d do it himself)

by kolparty on Jun 26, 2009 6:15 PM EDT reply actions  

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