Live from Montreal: 2009 NHL Draft First Round Open Thread
by Travis Hughes on Jun 26, 2009 11:02 PM EDT
in 2009 NHL Draft
104 comments
We've settled into out seats on the floor at the Bell Centre and we're ready to roll. Here's the open thread for the rest of the day to discuss any rumors, trades, or prospect talk. Remember, the first round will begin at 7 PM ET on Versus in the States and TSN in Canada.
Here is my Twitter feed which will be updated throughout the night and into the evening.
Be sure to follow the other SBN writers that are here on the draft floor as well.
mirtle
Pensburgh
DefendingBigD
diebytheblade
mlse
BroadStHockey
2ndCityHockey
felixpotvin
As always, send me an email or a Tweet if there's anything you'd like to see covered this weekend.
Here's what's happening...
10:57 PM - Penguins select Simon Despres, who Broad Street Hockey selected with the 21st pick in the SBN Mock Draft. The second round begins Saturday morning at 10 AM ET.
8:36 PM - Holmgren has spoken with the media. Here's the audio.
8:06 PM - Including the Pronger deal and Ray Emery's contract, the Flyers cap hit is calculated at $52.5 million, just $4.3 million under the cap.
7:52 PM - The Flyers do not have a pick until the 81st overall now that they have shipped off their 21st overall pick to Anaheim. Could they make a move to acquire a second round pick? In order to get Knuble, Alberts, and a backup goaltender under the Cup, they're going to have to make some kind of move.
7:34 PM - Pronger deal announced. Pronger and Ryan Dingle, a minor league prospect, for Lupul, Sbisa, tonight's first round pick (21st overall), next years first round pick, and a conditional third round pick.
7:03 PM - It seems as though Chris Pronger has been traded to the Flyers. Lupul could be the player going to the Ducks.
6:46 PM - Holmgren has been talking to members of the Anaheim front office about Chris Pronger.
6:32 PM - I've seen Paul Holmgren chatting with Ron Hextall (now with the Kings organization) and Vancouver GM Mike Gillis.
5:39 PM - A picture of the draft floor.
UPDATE 5:13 PM - From the Delaware County Times: According to a source at the NHL Draft, Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren has been in conversation with the Anaheim Ducks about the possibility of trading for defenseman Chris Pronger.
4:54 PM - It appears that the Flyers have three players in mind if they decide to keep the 21st overall pick. Defenseman David Rundblad, defenseman Stefan Elliott, and center Chris Kreider.
- The Flyers are rumored to still be after Jay Bouwmeester and Florida is looking to deal him before July 1 -- that's Wednesday. Everything going around seems to suggest that he will be traded tonight and that the orange and black are still in the mix for his services. Vancouver, however, is still considered the front runner.
- It also appears that the team is interested in Ryane Clowe, a LW from the Sharks who will be a restricted free agent come Wednesday. Read all the details on that right here.
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It appears that the Flyers have three players in mind if they decide to keep the 21st overall pick. Defenseman David Rundblad, defenseman Stefan Elliott, and center Chris Kreider.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
/ i wouldnt mind kaberle but not lupul and draft pick, it should be kaberle and draft pick to lupul, although that wont happen.
It doesn’t seem like the Flyers are in the running for Kaberle this time around. Nothing has come out about it, at least.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jun 26, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It would be interesting, at the very least, if Lupul was traded away to make room for Pronger on two seperate occasions for two seperate teams.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Paul Holmgren just walked across the draft floor with someone — I couldn’t tell who it was. They walked off the floor together and into a back room.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
It was someone in a suit, more than likely a front office guy… but I couldn’t tell you who, all I saw was his back.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jun 26, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t Pronger only have a year left on his contract? I guess it is worth it if it gets Lupul’s or Briere’s contract off of our cap.
fightlockdown.com
Two big developments accoding to Darren Dreger’s twitter
1.) Sources tell TSN Scott Niedermayer is returning for at least another season.
2.) Kaberle deal to the Leafs is off.
Assuming Niedermayer returns to Anaheim, this now give the Ducks a better idea of whether they are gonna deal Pronger. Maybe to us?
The Leafs will most likely hold onto Kaberle and see if they can get more for him once all the chaos surrounding JBO, Pronger and all the only defensemen that have been rumored is determined. Anyone who misses out on those guys might then turn to the Leafs and make a deal for Kaberle.
Holmgren was chatting with Vancouver GM Mike Gillis.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Also saw Holmgren with Anaheim GM Mike Gillis… Dreger is reporting the same thing. Presumably about Pronger.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Obvious typo… Anaheim GM Bob Murray.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jun 26, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Panotch just posted that JBO won’t talk about a contract until July 1 and even if a team acquires his rights, he won’t talk to them.
JBos turning out to be a real dickhead. Not quite sure if I want him anymore
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jun 26, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Something about Pronger sounds good. What really appeals to me is that he would be that veteran the Flyers really need in the locker room.
yeah but i thought that was supposed to be Hatcher, and then Rathje
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jun 26, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
The Pronger talk is very real. It’s buzzing around on the floor here.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Seems that way. Everybody keeps saying “Pronger to Philly”…
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jun 26, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
do we have some sort of leom insurance on pronger in case he goes bad?
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jun 26, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I like that, except $6.25 million is a pretty big cap hit, even if it’s just one year.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 26, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I certainly agree. And I’m glad it’s one year. Here’s to hoping Randy Jones gets thrown into the deal, thus giving up similar cap numbers and an overpriced defenseman
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 26, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
this smells like another hatcher situation where we sign him hope his knees hold up and then he deficates on our stanley cup chances
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jun 26, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s a small writeup on the Pronger rumors.
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2009/6/26/926772/pronger-to-flyers-rumors-running
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Wow. I can’t see Holmgren at the draft table or Bob Murray at the Ducks table so its possible they are pushing it through the league right now.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jun 26, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Hear anything else on who is heading west?
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 26, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Not officially, but Lupul seems to be the prevailing opinion.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jun 26, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, to Philly.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jun 26, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He deals with it REALLY well. It must be routine for him.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jun 26, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Tavares must be Obama… it’s taking him forever to get to the stage.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
“Pronger was subsequently traded to the Ducks in exchange for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid and three early round draft picks. "
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 26, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I thought your typo “snid” meant “Smid” and therefore you were talking the last one.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 26, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Dreger tweeted Pronger for Lupul, Sbisa, and 2 first rounders.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 26, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s what I’m hearing here.
Pronger for Lupul, Sbisa, and two first round picks.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
according to tsn’s front page
The Anaheim Ducks have traded defenceman Chris Pronger to the Philadelphia Flyers for Lukas Sbsia, Joffrey Lupul and two first-round picks
shit
Of course deuchebag McGuire loves it.
“Timonen, Coburn, Alberts, and Randy Jones!” what a dumbass
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 26, 2009 7:26 PM EDT reply actions
Chris Pronger will be 35 years old in October. And we trade 2 1sts, Lupul and Sbisa. I hate to say this, but we just got robbed
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jun 26, 2009 7:28 PM EDT reply actions
Not necessarily "robbed"
but we likely overpaid a bit. At the very least, we haven’t mortgaged our entire future with this trade, just a sizable enough chunk to make me fret a bit.
I like the player, but I’m still not sure about the salary fixes. We shall see what other joys the summer brings, I guess…
"...You know, Reemer, someday I'm gonna own a big sports bar."
4 first round picks for a 35 year old. And we picked up salary.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 26, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
What price do you put on a Cup?
I guess that’s always the question…
"...You know, Reemer, someday I'm gonna own a big sports bar."
If we win the Cup, that’s a valid question. But right now, the correct question is, what price do you put on Chris Pronger? If it’s 4 first round picks and being unable to resign Mike Knuble, I ask you if that’s worth it. I’m not sure.
My gripe is that this just screams of a Bobby Clarke move, and that worries me.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 26, 2009 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree - he was one of my favorites the first 2 months of last season
Kid could flat out skate and hit with the best of them
by SanDiegoScraps on Jun 26, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Non-sequitor
The picture from Trav’s post, the logo reads “LNH”…
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 26, 2009 7:32 PM EDT reply actions
Here’s his Hockey’s Future profile
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/ryan_dingle
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
dammit i hate this move, next years first round too? are you kidding homer? like were the hell do you plan on getting future guys? the phantoms? theres no one on the team. this wreaks of desperation, and a poor choice, when timmonen and pronger go, we have NO defense, carle and coburn and then absolutely no one.
A ton of picks go to the Blue Jackets. Numbers 26, 37, 62, and 92 in exchange for the 16th pick and the 77th pick, which go to the Isles.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
The Flyers cap hit is at $52.5 million, adjusted to include Emery and the Pronger deal.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
on the bright side...
we’ll have a TON of room next season if pronger doesnt embrace philadelphia and bring us a cup.
Yeah… definitely need to build through free agency in this era…
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 26, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Cap
Don’t get me wrong, i’m gonna LOVE having Pronger on the blue line. The price however was Steep. Now we just have to hope Homer ships Briere or we’re gonna be strapped for case. I would like to keep Briere, and would have liked to keep him before this trade, but now we can’t afford him.
Audio of Holmgren coming shortly.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2009/6/26/926860/holmgren-pronger-gives-us-a-better
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jun 26, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I have a new RSS feed to subscribe to: http://chrispronger.com/
Well, I was excited all day and once I realize that JBO was outta the picture I figured we were in good shape and not gonna blow the bank. And then this happened . . . Nice idea, but we got HOSED!
Guarantee Sbisa turns out to be a real good player. I guess it was only a matter of time before Homer did something dumb. Unbelievable.
We were on his personal short list if he were to be traded thanks to Niedermayer. And TSN just called the trade a “perfect matchup: Broad Street Bullies and Chris Pronger.” Thanks, TSN.
Yea, I saw those analogies coming a mile away. I think that it is funny that as reputiable a score as TSN is they still make such a generalized comment. I don’t mind getting called that though. A lot of people forget that hockey is a game centered around thoughness. But I guess that is an easy thing to forget these days when pussies like Sid skate around flopping and crying and then gets rewarded for it with the Stanley Cup.
I guess this won’t help us stay out of the box so lets hope our PK is legit. Oy vey . . .
Pronger played a full 82 games last season compiling 88 penalty minutes, tying him with that notorious goon Dany Heatley for 83rd in the league. Pronger’s viscious streak also put him up there near such vicious company as Scott Upshall and Braydon Coburn in penalty minutes, although each of them had more in fewer games played than Pronger.
He’s a smart, veteran player who knows how to get it done. He will make some guys black and blue and he has made some bad decisions in his career, but he is no loose canon. Don’t let them fool you.
Besides, we led the league in short handers last year.
Yea you are right. I wouldn’t have guessed that he had so few penalty minutes last season and that is a welcomed surprise. I really welcome his smarts on the blueline and that he is one bad ass mother who makes opponents pay. As I said before, this is hockey. Chris Pronger plays the game right (minus the cheapshots and skate stompings. I don’t condone those. He has a reputation and I think it is deserved but you gotta love that the guy is a hammer of skates).
However, channeling my inner Oliver Stone, I do believe there is some legitimacy in the argument that our reputation leads to more penalties then we deserve. I might be blind and biased but we have talked about it here at BSH before. All I am saying is that I can see Pronger getting penalties called against him or being suspended because he has joined our “classless,” “goon-filled,” “cheapshotting” team of Broad Street Bullies. You know what I mean?
I know exactly what you mean, but personally, I think some of the fans bring on a lot of that disrespect rather than the hockey club. To me, it is one thing to be playing tough, physical hockey and another to be calling for some guys head or defending guys like Steve Downie.
At the final Flyers game of the regular season, I sat next to two huge guys who made the observation that the game we were watching sucked. They were right, but I couldn’t disagree more with their reasoning. They kept talking back and forth that it wouldn’t be a Flyers game until there was blood on the ice and saying what they needed was Cote in the lineup. If you watched the final game of the season, the last thing that should have been on the Flyers minds was fighting. I work with a fellow Flyers fan who was insistent after the playoff elimination that what the Flyers needed were more guys that would knock people out and play tough. He claimed they didn’t fight enough and teams weren’t afraid to play them anymore. I thought about just how stupid that seemed, that these guys are paid to hit and be hit, and to win, and here this guy was telling me that the Flyers should be trying to scare other people with their fists in order to win rather than stop turning the puck over in their own zone (I’m looking at you Randy Jones).
I want a gritty team and I want gritty players. I want hard workers and hard hitters. What I don’t want is anyone who thinks that they can scare another grown man by throwing a couple punches or a cheap shot.
That’s a little off track though.
You are right though, amassing a poor reputation be it justified or not, certainly doesn’t help.
The comments to this trade are really mystifying to me.
Holmgren dumps an underacheiving, inconsistent forward with a bloated contract and sacrifices a developing, undersized, 19 year old, rookie defenseman that was at times used as a forward last year, a late first round pick this year, and (hopefully) a later first round selection next season for exactly what we need right now, a big, strong, tough, #1, veteran, captain, 5 time all-star, Norris winning, Hart winning defenseman with something few members of our team have come close to, the experience of raising the Stanley Cup, and he gets complaints?
Bouwmeester is younger, of course. We need some cup experience, we need more veteran presence like that, someone who knows what it takes to get there and help lead there. Bouwmeester is clearly interested in western teams from most reports, in particular places like Edmonton. He’s going to be looking long term and he’s going to be looking high dollar. We’ve got defensive prospects, we’ve got Timmonen, we don’t need another high dollar long term deal right now.
What we need is a Stanley Cup.
You are absolutly right beatniche. There are a ton of positives about this trade. Considering what Pronger brings to the table, he is much more valuable then just what he contributes on the ice, which will still be a lot. Shedding Lupul isn’t a big deal. He is replaceable and I feel like not matter who you put on a line with Jeff Carter and Scott Hartnell, they are gonna be a lethal force. I hope that our depth is not too badly affected. Losing the draft picks stinks but sacrifices need be made without a doubt. Sbisa is the part that I really don’t like. I think he is gonna be solid but, as you said, there are others in the farm system that can come and will hopefully not make us miss Sbisa.
To me, Bouwmeester was never a real option so to land someone like Pronger is nice. I feel like Chris can be our missing link and, more importantly, he thinks he can be that missing link. Also, having Chris Pronger on this team means two important things. First, this will be a huge help to Richie. Mike isn’t one of those vocal leaders. He leads by example and does an incredible job at it. Chris is more of a vocal leader and can definitely help Richie mature into being an even better leader. Maybe having Pronger on the team will bring back the leadership qualities lost with Keith Primeau. The other good thing is Chris is an ice time eater. He can play a ton of minutes which will take a lot of pressure off of Kimmo. I think it will be great for Braydon and Parent to play with Chris as well.
I think my biggest question now focuses on the holes that we have. We must figure out who is going to be the backup goalie to Emery. I like that the Flyers were chasing Ryan Clowe but he will probably be to expensive now. If we can nab a cheap faceoff specialist to center the fourth and a cheap journeymen that can play along side Harts and Carter we are in good shape. Having Pronger and Emery for one year leaves us the escape route if necessary and opens up a free agent signing next summer.
Either way, Homer has to be credited for making a move that puts us in position to win now. I still think he gave up way to much but he understands that we are a Chris Pronger away from winning the Cup. If we don’t win it its not like we are completely screwed. We still have a young core of talented players.
I am regaining my optimism . . .
Oh this trade
It will be forever etched as the move that won us a cup, or the move that set us behind 5 years. (Or the hockey world will even out and the Flyers will continue to be relegated to 1st and 2nd round playoff bounces…)
Yes, Pronger is a great defensemen. A top tier d-man by anyone’s standards, and really a “dream come true” scenario for the Flyers. He fills a huge need of a veteran, shutdown defender . And that scoring thing helps out a bit too.
As for the rest of the trade, well, that’s where the questions start to arise. And I’m ignoring the Dingle and 3rd round compensatory pick because of the confidence I have that either will be productive. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere before, I needed good value to move Lupul. In this case, I’m okay with the move. Yes it means we have a void to fill, and with less money to do so, but it can be done. Losing Sbisa wasn’t ideal, but it’s always hard with speculation. He looked promising, but we just never (and now, will never) know of what he could have developed into as a Flyer. The youth is a big thing to give up, but somewhat understandable – Ducks need a replacement, and if the Flyers weren’t willing to move their top, proven players, a young prospect will have to do.
So Lupul, with his 20+ goals and $4+ mil cap hit are out the door, along with a rising star in Sbisa. Then there are the two draft picks. It’s feasible that the first round pick for this year is a throw-away – Homer didn’t see anyone with whom he was in love, and threw it in as extra trade bait to pick up a solid d-man for now. I’m just left scratching my head over the one for next year. Just seems like overkill with the payment already given.
Overall, not the worst trade we could’ve made. We made huge gain in a guy who is one of the top defensemen in the league – a sure thing, if you will. But the price is steep – another cap hit, while losing a scoring forward, a promising d-man, and two 1st round picks. The only upside is that there is a lot of risk in the words “promising” and “draft picks”. Not perfect, but far from horrible.
I’ll discuss filling out the rest of the lineup in another post… somewhere…
"...You know, Reemer, someday I'm gonna own a big sports bar."
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New Jersey
|
82 | 48 | 27 | 7 | 103 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
82 | 47 | 28 | 7 | 101 |
|
Philadelphia
|
82 | 41 | 35 | 6 | 88 |
|
New York Rangers
|
82 | 38 | 33 | 11 | 87 |
|
New York Islanders
|
82 | 34 | 37 | 11 | 79 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
Flyers Schedule
Next 5 Games
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New Jersey
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Tue 09/21 | 7:00 PM EDT |
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Toronto
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Thu 09/23 | 7:00 PM EDT |
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@
Toronto
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Fri 09/24 | 7:00 PM EDT |
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@
Minnesota
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Sat 09/25 | 8:00 PM EDT |
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@
New Jersey
|
Tue 09/28 | 7:00 PM EDT |
Last 5 Games
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Chicago
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Wed 06/09 | OT - L 3 - 4 |
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Chicago
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Sun 06/06 | L 4 - 7 |
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Chicago
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Fri 06/04 | W 5 - 3 |
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Chicago
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Wed 06/02 | OT - W 4 - 3 |
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@
Chicago
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Mon 05/31 | L 1 - 2 |
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