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Summer Fill - A Conversation with The Copper & Blue - Part II

 

The thrilling conclusion to our discussion with the Copper & Blue is here!  Time to rejoice, I know. 

Below are our questions to Jonathan, Derek, and Bruce with their answers.  Thanks to those guys for answering our questions. 

The first part can be seen here.

Star-divide

 

Broad Street Hockey: First, you may have heard the Flyers picked up Chris Pronger.  When the Oilers traded for Pronger in the summer of 2005, they took Carolina to a 7th game in the Stanley Cup Finals.  As he comes to Philadelphia, the already high expectations for the team only increased.  How much of the Oilers success was Pronger alone and how much of that was him putting a good team over the top?

 

Jonathan: It isn’t easy to narrow down the contributions of a single player on a team like that.  The 2005-06 Oilers were a solid, veteran group plagued for much of the year by miserable goaltending, but Pronger was certainly the most vital component of the team.  He was simultaneously both the team’s most effective shut-down defenseman and their best offensive defenseman, and he ate a ton of minutes on the backend.  The Oilers’ collapse following his departure wasn’t solely Pronger’s doing (the loss of Peca, Spacek, Samsonov, etc. all contributed) but there’s no doubt that he was the best player on a very good team and I doubt they would have squeaked into 8th without him in the lineup.


BSH: On a related note, Joffrey Lupul has now been traded for Chris Pronger twice.  He was constantly looked at as a
disappointment in Philadelphia, mainly for his streaky play and high salary.  Is that a sentiment you shared in Edmonton and did you miss having him on your team once he was gone?

Jonathan: Joffrey Lupul was a complete disappointment in Edmonton.  He was expected to score 30 goals and help lead the offense; he couldn’t even manage 30 points.  Aside from his negligible offense, Lupul was found lacking in virtually every possible way: soft for his size, no defensive game to speak of, and became the chief whipping boy for most of the fanbase during his time in Edmonton.  He was not missed.

 


BSH:  Being in a small market, how has the salary cap affected your on-ice performance?

Derek:  It hasn't.  Although the Oilers are a small market, they have an owner with eleventy billion dollars, and he's not afraid to use them.  He's been willing to vastly overpay for free agents since taking over as evidenced by his offers to Marian Hossa and Jaromir Jagr.  The NHL, like other sports, is becoming a billionaire's club and the Oilers shouldn't have any issues with finances barring Katz experiencing a financial meltdown five times the size of Jerry Moyes in Phoenix.



BSH: Is it doing enough to allow you to compete?

Derek:  The only thing preventing the Oilers from competing is the on-ice product and the people that manage that product.  The owner's giant bags of money are wide open to spend on the hockey club.  I don't think that competitive balance is going to be an excuse in Edmonton for a very long time.  The ownership and executives may however, allude to it as they push for a new government-financed arena in Edmonton.


BSH: Is there ever a sense that it’s tough for the organization to lure players to a smaller, colder market than Edmonton
than it might be for a team like the Flyers in a bigger, slightly warmer market?

 


Derek:  It's the overriding narrative for a large contingent of fans every off-season.  It's part self-pity, part battered-wife syndrome.  Fans search for excuses as to why the Oilers aren't signing big name free agents, so they convince themselves that it's the cold weather, not the really poorly-managed hockey team.  If the Oilers make the playoffs two or three years running and can't sign anyone, then maybe it is the -22F air temperatures.




BSH:  The Flyers were just named to play in the Winter Classic this year.  What was the atmosphere like from a fan perspective when the Oilers played in the Heritiage Classic?

 

Bruce:  I wrote a recap on the day of the five-year anniversary of the Heritage Classic.  A snippet:

In many ways the fans were the big story. Layered up as we were, we wedged ourselves together like rowsful of Dave Hunters. Not everybody stuck it out for the whole six hours, but a significant majority did. It was a wonderful celebration of the game of hockey, and simply of being Canadian. One just had to listen to the 57,000-voice Commonwealth Stadium Choir's heartfelt rendition of "O Canada" to recognize that. Normally a reluctant participant in flag-waving and territory-marking, I was surprised to hear my own voice rising to join the throng.

 

BSH:  Was there any noticeable effect of the spectacle on the team, either leading up to the game or following it?

Bruce:  As for its effect on the team, at least superficially it was negative. The Oil came in to the Heritage Classic riding a four-game winning streak, and sat fourth in the West. They lost the HC itself and won just 2 of their next 13 after that, slumping to 13th in the conference by the Christmas break. They never quite recovered, finishing 9th.

 


The Habs on the other hand were 11th in the East when the puck was dropped at Commonwealth, and ultimately worked their way up to a playoff position, though the HC game itself didn't start or stop any particular trends the way it did with the Oil.

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This is like a juggsaw puzzles. The answers to the question are there, but need to be assembled.
<blockquotBSH: Being in a small market, how has the salary cap affected your on-ice performance?

Derek: It hasn’t.

Ummm

He’s been willing to vastly overpay for free agents
offers to Marian Hossa and Jaromir Jagr.

Yet those guys still wouldn’t go to Edmonton. Heatley begged to get out of Ottawa and when his only ticket was Edmonton suddenly had a change of heart. And that’s before even mentioning Nylander, who agreed to be overpaid by Edmonton right up until his wife explained she sure as hell wasn’t moving there, and proceeded to take $2mil less to move to Washington because “”http://communities.canada.com/edmontonjournal/blogs/hockey/archive/2009/08/04/nylander-quot-i-think-that-edmonton-would-be-fun-now-i-owuld-like-to-try-that-now-quot.aspx" target="new">it was perhaps a little better socially." And if you’ve ever been to DC, you know it’s not exactly a bastion of cultural options.

It’s basically impossible in a salary cap league to get a winning team on the ice when you can’t even overpay FAs into coming there.

by MarioD on Aug 18, 2009 12:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Mismanagement

It’s not about the market. Players go where have a chance to win unless they desperately need that big payday or desperately need a job.

Jagr and Hossa were getting paid no matter where they went. Why go to Edmonton and miss the playoffs?

Contributor to The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Aug 18, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Peca fled edmonton right after a stanley cup final appearance….

When Nylander chose to take a 10% paycut and sign in Washington, they’d finished in last place in their division three seasons in a row. There’s no way he went there for their “competitiveness”.

by MarioD on Aug 18, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Potulny

Interested in Flyers’ fans opinions on Ryan Potulny, who spent a little time as a Flyer before being traded for Danny Syvret last summer. Potulny is on the cusp of cracking the Oilers this upcoming season.

Also interested to hear of progress Syvret has made in the Flyers’ organization, and what his prospects are going forward. He seems to have had an excellent campaign in 2008-09.

by Bruce McCurdy on Aug 18, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions  

The irony of losing Potulny is that we’re in need of a lower line center who’s good at face-offs. Syvret, on the other hand, was just re-signed for another year and, yeah, is doing very well in the AHL (12 goals, 45 assists in 76 games with the Phantoms last season) and I think has probably assumed the role of default defensive call-up for the moment.

Given the defensive situation on the NHL team, as well as some of our better-but-still-developing prospects in the AHL, it’s tough to imagine Syvret becoming a full-time Flyer, but it’s certainly possible. Many of us want to see our overpaid #6 D-man Randy Jones traded for a bag of pucks, in which case the oft-injured and newly added #7 D-man Ole-Kristian Tollefsen would presumably become the #6. If/when he gets injured, or when Paul Holmgren decides to bring 7 D-men on a long road trip, Syvret would be the logical long-term call-up. I wouldn’t be shocked if Syvret isn’t re-signed after this season given some other prospects develop as expected, but right now it’s tough not to be pleased with him.

by Ben Feldman on Aug 18, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

is the winter weather, what inspired Wayne Gretzky to leave the Oil and go to Hollywood back in 1987-88? I mean the Oil went on to get one more Stanley Cup without the “great one”…..but soon Paul Coffey left for Pittsburgh? Mark Messier left for Broad Way and the Oilers haven’t reached that glory since. Although, Edmonton is the only former WHA team standing. How did they manage to prevent Gary Bettman from shipping them, like he did their WHA counterparts?

The Flames on the other hand, they have Jarome Iginla, Dion Phaneuf, Jay Bouwmeester, Damond Langkow, Miikka Kiprusoff, and a handful of talent that keeps them competitive every year. Yet they only have 1 cup in their name (one-fifth the glory of Edmonton).

The Canucks have Roberto Luongo, Kevin Bieksa, the Sedin twins, Ryan Kesler, and a few others that keep them competitive, and they have no cups in their franchise history.

Although Edmonton has managed to defeat the Flyers twice the last two seasons. Edmonton shouldn’t feel too bad, they aren’t the only Canadian based team to be floundering….isn’t their a team in Canada called the Maple Leafs? In Canada’s largest market? and they can’t field a team. Montreal Canadiens, the NHL’s most historic team, they went on a free fall this past season. Ottawa they’ve been going south since their Cup run in 2006-07.
Not to mention the Winnipeg Jets and Quebec Nordiques no longer exist (which sucks a** cause outside of the Flyers, they were two of my favorite NHL teams.

What was Edmonton’s rivalry like with the Jets? If there was one? The Jets were always competitive in the regular season, but coulnd’t get it together in the post season.

by FlyersGoalies1and27 on Aug 18, 2009 3:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Edmonton is the only former WHA team standing. How did they manage to prevent Gary Bettman from shipping them, like he did their WHA counterparts?

It was a near thing on more than one occasion. Les Alexander of Houston was more than kicking the tires at one point, it was real scary for awhile. You’re right that Bettman has overseen the demise of the other three merged WHA teams, and he did little enough to help us either. It’s only American markets like Pittsburgh, Buffalo and Phoenix that he will defend to the death.

The Flames on the other hand, they have Jarome Iginla, Dion Phaneuf, Jay Bouwmeester, Damond Langkow, Miikka Kiprusoff, and a handful of talent that keeps them competitive every year. Yet they only have 1 cup in their name (one-fifth the glory of Edmonton).

Ironically the first FOUR guys you name are Edmonton area natives. What a piss-off. On the other hand, the score remains 5-1, doesn’t it?

What was Edmonton’s rivalry like with the Jets? If there was one? The Jets were always competitive in the regular season, but coulnd’t get it together in the post season.

That pretty much sums it up. The Jets couldn’t beat the Oilers, and always had to play them in Round One or Two cuz both were in the Smythe Division. Oilers won 6 series against Winnipeg between 1983-90, sweeping the first four, winning 16 straight playoff games and 22 of 26 overall. In 1990 Winnipeg threw a real scare into Edmonton, taking a 3-1 series lead and a 3-1 lead in Game 5, but the Oil came storming back to win 4-3, then 4-3 again in Winnipeg Arena before cruising 4-1 in Game 7. The Oilers lost only three more games en route to their surprise fifth, Gretzkyless Cup.

by Bruce McCurdy on Aug 18, 2009 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

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