Thursday Morning Fly By: The final two forwards, Phantoms open camp, Peter Forsberg...

by Travis Hughes on Sep 24, 2009 6:00 AM EDT in Morning Fly By

The Adirondack Phantoms opened camp Wednesday in Glens Falls, New York. - photo via poststar.com

It seems like it's a three way battle for the final two forward spots on the roster. Blair Betts, Mika Pyorala (minus umlauts), and James van Riemsdyk are all seemingly competing for just two roster spots, and the debate is raging on who will be the odd man out. There are a ton of opinions, so let's get to them.
First off, the team made a minor move yesterday that could have major implications. In essence, they only dumped a contract -- that of defenseman Patrik Hersley, to be specific -- on the Nashville Predators. But the move is clearly to make room for adding another player, and the only player left in camp without a contract is Blair Betts. [BSH]
If Betts is all but officially on the roster, that would mean it's down to Pyorala and JVR for the final spot. But could Dan Carcillo be in jeopardy of losing his job? [Flying P Blog]
Tim Panaccio begs the question -- is van Riemsdyk NHL ready? He contrasts JVR's situation to that of Claude Giroux, who struggled in camp last year but learned a few lessons with the Phantoms before making an impact midway through the season with the Flyers. [CSN Philly]
Frank Seravelli of the Daily News thinks JVR has the edge. [Frequent Flyers]
According to the numbers, though, JVR might not even fit under the cap. Or he will. The facts are limited and incomplete. The rules of the CBA concerning player bonuses are what complicate things, and nobody can seem to have a straight answer on what JVR's cap hit actually is. Still, we try to figure it out. [CSN Philly] - [FanPosts]
Meanwhile, the odd man out will be heading to the Phantoms, who opened up their inaugural training camp in upstate New York yesterday. People in Glens Falls are excited, to say the least. [Post-Star - article & video]
Peter Forsberg is making news again. Yeah, we're not interested. [Frequent Flyers]
A fascinating (statistical) look a junior players cracking NHL rosters in their first season, and whether or not it alters their development. [Mile High Hockey]
Versus has a new ad campaign, and it's quite awesome. If only everybody could see it... [Puck The Media]

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“Defense? Who needs defense?” – Oh Caps fans…

Broad Street Hockey -
Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 24, 2009 8:46 AM EDT reply actions

the blog about Carcillo losing his roster spot is wishful thinking. I understand the need for toughness and goonery on a hockey team but we have three guys (Pronger, Laps, Asham) that can slug AND play AND they are not borderline insane. Do you think we can pay phoenix say like…2 mil. to redo that trade? (im joking)

all along ive been saying we should just stick JVR in the minors and let him develop but ive since changed my stance. everyone else that was chosen near JVR’s draft position is already contributing, in this camp hes shown that hes ready to join his fellow draftees.

If I had things my way, Betts Pyorala and JVR would all be in the big leagues, with either cote or Carcillo losing their slots.

when is management going to stop yapping about Carcillo’s “offensive upside”, didnt they learn frm steve downie? even if Carcillo doubles his point total from last season hes almost guranteed to have the same amount of penalty minutes/stupid penalties.

by njh3293 on Sep 24, 2009 9:08 AM EDT reply actions

im guessing your not a carcillo fan huh???

not saying the guy is a God or something, but Carcillo is better then you make him out to be. He does have good offensive upside(look at the sick goal the other day, and he led our team in goals in the playoffs). I don’t think he is better then an average 2nd line or a good 3rd line player, but with the offensive talent on this team, there is a great chance he can have 15+ goals and 35+ points. He should have less penalties then last year and i think by the end of the year he will be a fan favorite.
and if anybody on this team is borderline insane its gotta be Hartnell

by JpH89 on Sep 24, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions

He led the Flyers in the playoffs in goals? With 1? No… Gagne had 3, Knuble had 2, Giroux had 2, and Carcillo had 1 with every other forward on the roster. Carcillo had 24 points in ’07-08 in Phoenix — his best season. And he was on one of the top two lines, got power play time, etc., if I remember correctly. 35+ points seems not feasible.

by Ben Feldman on Sep 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Yahoo says he had two with gags, knuble and gags with two also, so my bad i know better not to trust yahoo stats. Yeah his best year was 24 points, with an awful Phoenix team. Hell Cote can possibly get 8 goals with phoenix, but Carcillo never played with Doan(best player) and he will get to play with either Danny, Richi, Gags, Giroux, Carter, Hartnell, etc….. I know a lot of people just hate on Carcillo because he was “replacing” Upshall, who i too loved and still wish we had, but just because you hate the guy because of being part of a trade doesn’t mean he isn’t a decent player. Like i said, not making him a God, but he definitely deserves more praise then what most fans give him.

by JpH89 on Sep 24, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

I’m not hating on Carcillo for replacing Upshall, he’s just borderline worthless. you cant compare Carcillo’s penalties to Hartnell’s. As much as Hartnell hurts the team with his incessant minors, they are almost always a result of him playing hard but not having the pure skill to keep it under control and within the rules. Nevermind the fact that he contributes on the score sheet.

Carcillo on the other hand racks up penalty minutes by taking cheap shots and barking at officials. Hartnell is out there to play great hockey and he happens to rack up penalty minutes along the way. Carcillo is out there to start shit, and every now and then he happens to play some hockey along the way.

There was one game last year that really cemented my opinion of Carcillo. I think it was against Ottawa, but he was sent to the box for something questionable. After he was released from the box he continued to bark at the officials, landing him another minor and a misconduct. the guy is mentally unstable on the ice. I hope he proves me wrong but I dont see it.

by njh3293 on Sep 24, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions

the shot at Hartnell was a joke njh

by JpH89 on Sep 24, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions

hartnell

stop complaining about hartnell .. hes likea sean avery .. hes important to this team .. hescores goals.. and he lights the fire under this team .. carcillo isnt terrible .. hes an ok third line player.. JVR should be the second line wing.. put briere n giroux on third line..andwehave balanced scoring

by jack is better than asante on Sep 24, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m not entirely sure the argument to lay off Hartnell is strengthened by the comparison to Avery.

And it’s definitely reasonable to think Hartnell needs to take less dumb penalties. As njh said, there’s a difference between Hartnell’s penalties and Carcillo’s, but the underlying need to reduce penalties applies to both.

Broad Street Hockey -
Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Sep 24, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions

JIBTA, like i said, the shot at Hartnell was a joke

by JpH89 on Sep 25, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions

“didnt they learn frm steve downie”

I thought I heard that Downie was doing pretty good in TB…

by philiafan14364 on Sep 24, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Reports are saying that he has been doing well on TB’s top lines, which is no surprise honestly. I think we all knew Downie was a skilled player, but sadly he let the negative aspects of his game cloud the positives. I do not regret the deal to get Carle and give up Downie. Downie turned out to be good trade bait after never really solidifying himself as one of those players that teams are willing to put up with because of his potential. In this situation, his potential just wasn’t worth enough to the Flyers and that is saying a lot.
We’ll see though. Downie is still young and I am willing to bet he will loose his cool and still do some really dumb stuff.

by Mitchell Green on Sep 24, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions

So are we just assuming that Cotes a goner?

by philiafan14364 on Sep 24, 2009 3:01 PM EDT reply actions

He’ll float around as the 13th.

by SJPhillyVT on Sep 24, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions

This seems right. I don’t wanna believe that Stevens is inept enough to think he really deserves one of the 12 forward spots.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Sep 24, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Sadly no by the looks of it.

by Mitchell Green on Sep 24, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Questions

JVR, Pyorala, Betts are competing for two spots. Is that assuming a 21 player roster or a 22 with Cote as the 13th foward?

Why has Powe been given a guaranteed spot on the team? Certainly rather have Carcillo then Powe in my top 9. Powe is a 4th liner if your 4th line is already Lappy-Betts-Asham, Powe can be sent down no problems. Plus he has a two way contract.

I don’t think Homer wanted to trade Downie but injuries on the blue line and the poor play of Steve Eminger forced his hand. Either way you move Downie for a top 4 defensemen for the next 5 years I say job well done.

Comparing Downie to JVR is also like oranges to apples Downie is no where near the level prospect JVR is (number 2 overall), Downie was the 27th pick or something like that and at the time of the draft rated much lower a late 2nd early 3rd rounder. Not every prospect is the same there are no rules for when the time is right you Giroux looked awful in camp last year after a full run in the QMJHL. He needed time to adjust to the pro game. JVR is much bigger and can stand in with the big boys and looks great in camp what else more does he have to do to earn a spot.

Bottom Line:
Right now JVR is better fit on the 2nd or 3rd line than Powe, Asham, Cote, or Betts. If anyone disagrees with that statement please feel free to explain your logic.

by chrislanci on Sep 24, 2009 5:52 PM EDT reply actions