Philadelphia Flyers Fan Confidence Rating: 1/26 Voting
by Travis Hughes on Jan 26, 2010 11:14 AM EST
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PrintUps and let downs have defined the play of the Philadelphia Flyers since the last time we checked in on fan confidence, back on December 23. The Broad Street Hockey Fan Confidence Rating dropped to just 28.3 percent that day, down more than 60 points from the season-high on October 5.
Since December, though, the Flyers have had mostly highs. They've climbed back into the Eastern Conference playoff race and while they've had a few losses here and there, they're still 11-4-1 since our last poll.
So how will that affect voting this time around?
You vote, on a scale of 0 percent to 100 percent, how confident you are in the current direction of the organization as a whole. That means that you're taking into account the team's on-ice performance, management and coaching decisions, and the overall status of prospects and the farm system.
Voting will be open for 24 hours, and the results will be posted on tomorrow morning and graphed alongside previous results. The current graph can be seen after the jump.
So, how confident are you in the current direction of the Philadelphia Flyers? Vote in the poll and let us know how you feel in the comments.
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Could someone please explain how you can be 100% confident in a franchise that mortgaged several future years (giving up three consecutive first round selections and doesn’t draft until round 3 this June) to win this season and is barely clinging to a spot in the playoffs?
Doubting Thomas
Or, Doubting MikeFive in this case.
I’m the 20 percent guy. That really only reflects my confidence in the team for THIS season. However, I don’t think I’ll be confident in this team until they get a new GM and capologist.
Sure, they’re playing well now, and they have a good number of prospects. But there is a huge gap between their NHL-level players and their prospects. Their best hopes for the future are still quite early in their development and could not step in right now if need be. And we won’t be able to retool and add depth until the offseason when some of our contracts come off the books.
If the team can stay healthy, Emery plays like he did earlier in the year, and Holmgren can add a 3rd-paid defenseman and a “depth” forward, then anything is possible. I really hope that this is the case. But honestly I’m starting to feel like I’m watching The Empire Strikes Back here. Whenever I watch that movie, some part of me still hopes that somehow the gang will get out of their jam at Bespin and get away safely, Luke’s hand and all. But I know how the movie ends – with the Rebels staring out into space thinking, “We’re still here, and we’ll get ’em next time.”
I’m tired of feeling that way about this team. “Next Year” was supposed to be “Now.” We were promised a Cup back in 1996-1997, even before the season began. Time for the Organ-Eye-Zation to put up or shut up.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I voted 0%. I’ve watched the Flyers since 1984 through many highs and lows.
I’m still a huge fan, but I define confidence as my faith that the Flyers organization can deliver the ultimate prize and that’s the Stanley Cup.
I have seen them come very close and seen them be as far away as possible to that goal. I just don’t realistically ever see this team being able to achieve this for whatever reason. They just don’t have the mindset to do it or they are cursed. I haven’t figured out which one yet.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 26, 2010 12:00 PM EST reply actions
can you list the top tier teams and the Flyers record against them so we can get this crap out of the way
Flyers vs. Top 4 teams in East Conference
Washington Capitals – 6-5 OTW, 4-2 L, 8-2 L, 5-3 L
New Jersey Devils – 5-2W, 3-2 W, 4-1 L,
Buffalo Sabers – 5-2 W, 3-2 L, 4-2L,
Pittsburg Pens – -5-4 L, 6-1 L, 2-2 SOL, 7-4W, 2-1 L
record = 5-9-1 not great but “can’t beat” not true,
also point out we got rocked by MTL two years ago in the regular season 0-4 outscored by huge numbers, yet beat them in 5 games in the playoffs
Here are the other top teams records vs. the other top 4 teams for comparison
NJD – 8-3 (4 wins over Pitt 3-1 vs. WSH)
Pitt – 1-5-1
Washington – 4-3-1
Buffalo 3-3-1
You and I both know that when push comes to shove, this Flyers team will not answer the call to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and solifiy themselves as top level team in the NHL by beating other top level teams. We saw it in the playoffs last year and the trend continues. You showed it, they are 5-10 against just the Penguins, Devils, Sabres and Capitals. Throw in their two loses to the Sharks and losses to the Avalanche and Canucks, 3 more top level teams, and you are looking at a lovely 5-13-1 record against teams that are ranked 1-4 in both the East and West. That has to say something . . .
I agree with you. If the Flyers really get into gear and head into the playoffs “hot” like they did in 07-08 where they took down the Canadians and Capitals, then anything is possible. But right now, if the Playoffs started tomorrow, this team probably wouldn’t make it through the first round.
by Mitchell Green on Jan 27, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
We have some matchup issues against some of the top teams but that is why they are the top teams you can just make a move to through away the future to try to win NOW every year that got us nowhere before the lockout, we would just have to hope to get the right match-ups, get hot or get lucky with some post olympic breakdowns you never know. I agree we are not the best team in the league right now but then again how many times as the President Trophy Winner won the Stanley Cup or has the top seed in general won the cup. We are in the mix and have room to improve. The team is harder to play against when compared to last year and should be scary in a seven game series especially if we get going.
If the playoffs started today we would have Buffalo I am not blow away by the Sabers and we could probably get past them. We have played well against the Devils and in the end it comes down to Washington and Pittsburgh I am not scared of the Rangers Boston or Florida. I am more afraid of the Senators they have had are number a bit they would be tougher matchup than their record indicates.
If the playoffs started today we would have Buffalo I am not blow away by the Sabers and we could probably get past them. We have played well against the Devils and in the end it comes down to Washington and Pittsburgh I am not scared of the Rangers Boston or Florida. I am more afraid of the Senators they have had are number a bit they would be tougher matchup than their record indicates.
Everytime you post one of these ramblings diatribes dismissing the skill of every other team in the league as if it were a refill of coffee I become more convinced that “chrislanci” is Paul Holmgren’s alias.
the voting shows that you are clearly in the minority her in dismissing the skill of the Flyers being that only you mikefive and hockeyoutsiders have voted below 40 percent. I don’t think my statement dismisses the skill of the teams mentioned it is not the most strongly worded statement “probably get by” and “not scared”.
more convinced that "chrislanci" is Paul Holmgren’s alias
I still think you are Manny Malhotra’s agent so at least as the GM I am making more money than you.
only you mikefive and hockeyoutsiders have voted below 40 percent
Actually, there are 25 different people who voted below 40%…
By the way, agent’s make way more money than GMs.
not Malhotra’s agent take your 10% of 700K I am sure Homer makes more than that, at the time of my post 12 hours ago it was only 5 or so but 6% of the voting population is still a vast minority
Manny Malhotra’s agent has only one client… jesus.
Manny Malhotra’s agent represents Jesus? If so, he makes 10% of nothing, or maybe 10% of loaves and fishes.
“Manny Malhotra’s agent-ah! Has seen the LIGHT-AH! Now Manny Malhotra’s agent-ah! Has only one client-ah! JESUS!”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
unfortunately, management keeps proving the minority right.
I’d love to be proven wrong. Nothing would make me happier. There is absolutely NO comparison to cheering for a championship team. Almost makes me wish I followed baseball and was a Phillies fan.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 28, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
you can[’t] just make a move to [throw] away the future to try to win NOW every year
I know I had to make some corrections here, but your point is well taken.
The Flyers are second in all-time regular-season winning percentage, trailing only Montreal. Yet Montreal has 24 Stanley Cups and we have 2. Why is that? It is in part due to the fact that Montreal still managed to build through the draft even when they were winning Cups.
One thing the Habs made a habit of (pun intended) was trading solid veterans to bad / expansion teams in exchange for the latter’s top draft picks. The Flyers did something like this way back in 1975 after their second Cup. On draft day they traded Bill Clement to the expansion Washington Capitals in exchange for their first overall pick (Mel Bridgman).
Anyway, it now seems like we do the opposite, trading draft picks and prospects for already established players. It has not worked for us, obviously.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
There are examples on both sides:
Seidenberg for Nedved; Vandermeer and 2nd for Zhamnov and 4th; Williams for Markov; Woywitka, 1st, and 3rd for Comrie…
It works both ways.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 27, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Hence, I disagree with his assessment:
Anyway, it now seems like we do the opposite, trading draft picks and prospects for already established players.
I guess it depends what his definition of “now” is, now doesn’t it?
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 27, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
I posted a reply but then my netbook deleted it..
I essentially agreed with Geoff and apologized for speaking in generalities. I even threw in our vintage Montreal Canadiens-esque trade of 2003 (Fedotenko to Tampa for their 1st round pick; we selected Joni Pitkanen) to agree with Mario’s point.
However, in recent Holmgren-led years we have traded more prospects and draft picks than the other way around, so it seems to me. I’m not criticizing these moves; I’m just posting them as examples:
1. We gave Nashville back the draft pick they gave us in the Forsberg deal so we could talk to Timonen and Hartnell.
2. Traded Alexandre Picard (prospect) and a 2nd round draft pick to Tampa for Vaclav Prospal.
3. We traded Ned Lukacevic and a 4th round pick to Boston for Andrew Alberts.
4. Traded Scottie Upshall and a 2nd round draft pick to Phoenix for Dan Carcillo.
5. Traded Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa (prospect) and 2-3 draft picks to Anaheim for Chris Pronger and Ryan Dingle (bad prospect).
Even in the deal for Matt Carle we gave up a draft pick and a prospect (Steve Downie) but we at least got a draft pick back.
So to answer Geoff’s question, by “now” I mean “the last calendar year-plus.”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I still believe that the draft picks for Hartnell and Timmonen were negotiated during the forsberg trade. It gave Nashville the chance to make their playoff run, but they need they wouldn’t be able to sign either of those guys (both FAs at the ened fo the year).
They’re in the same part of the cycle the Phillies are in, which is the point when you’re using current talented prospects to improve the team immediately. The problem is that they made too many mistakes and wound up with a team that can’t contend and the cupboard is bare to fix it.
However, the biggest issue is that the types of trades you are talking about don’t really happen thanks to the salary cap. Veterans are of much less value now than draft picks and prospects (unless the “veteran” is the best defenseman in the game or whatnot). I mean, Bill Guerin was traded for a 3rd round drat pick last season (and it was conditional; it could’ve been as low as a fifth rounder).
The model of action you are espousing has been evolved out of this league.
I still believe that the draft picks for Hartnell and Timmonen were negotiated during the forsberg trade.
You’re probably right. When I heard that deal I thought that Homer had pulled off some form of grand larceny.
They’re in the same part of the cycle the Phillies are in, which is the point when you’re using current talented prospects to improve the team immediately.
The difference between the Phillies and Flyers is that the Phils won a championship. Therefore, teams are looking at their prospects and players as having more value because “they know what it takes to get it done.” That’s how the Avalanche remained competitive for so long before last year, and that’s how Detroit has been so successful. I can almost guarantee that if Pronger had not won the Stanley Cup with Anaheim, the Flyers would not have had to give up quite as much to get him.
The model of action you are espousing has been evolved out of this league.
You’re right about that. I’m not necessarily saying the Flyers should do EXACTLY that; I’m just illustrating it to show that they’re undervaluing the draft. That’s a holdover from Clarkie I think.
Three reasons that the Flyers really sucked in the early 1990s were:
1. They traded draft picks for less-than-stellar players. (Two first-round picks to Toronto for Ken Wregget?)
2. The players they did draft from the mid-1980s onward just flat-out sucked and could not contribute. (Craig Fisher, Kimbi Daniels, etc.)
3. They were behind the times when Russian players started coming into the league; by the time they were on board, the wheat had been taken and only the chaff remained.
Fast-forward to the Lindros era. The Flyers could not win with him because they could not build the right team around him. Maybe that’s because they depleted their system just to get him in the first place.
If the Flyers stuck with their core at the end of 1991-92, and if they accepted Detroit’s trade proposal (Federov for Butsayev), their core would have looked like this:
Fosberg
Federov
Recchi
Brind’Amour
Ricci
Duchesne
Galley
Yushkevich
Hextall
What do you think that team might have done?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Paul Holmgren has a very good track record with the draft. I don’t think Flyers’ prospects are under-estimated at all.
[EDIT: This probably should be a fanshot, even though its apropos of nothing currently, I’ll do it right. Give me a few hours and I’ll going to do a thorough examination of what the Flyers’ actually produced (however many transactions down the line it took) from the draft history decade…]
I’m talking the value of draft picks, not so much the value of prospects already within the organization.
I think Homer does a decent job with planning for the future, but he does a lousy job with the day-to-day stuff. If they want to keep Stevens in the organ-eye-zation, maybe he can assist Homer. One of Stevens’ strengths, after all, was the day-to-day preparation for games. (His players didn’t follow through, but it wasn’t because Stevens didn’t prepare them.)
That said, maybe Stevens can translate that attention to detail into an asset for the front office.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Im confused. This is what I was responding to:
Therefore, teams are looking at their prospects and players as having more value because "they know what it takes to get it done."
And its probably going to take a couple days for me to write that post looking at drafts, but its fun. There are some flat-out insane wheelings and dealing that went down.
we acquired 3 veterans over 30 years old = Pronger, Timmo and Prospal (2 being long term signees annual ALL-Stars)
also added young guys under 25 in Carcillo, Parent, Hartnell, Dingle, Matt Carle, Coburn
only deal the resembles the Amonte, Zhamnov, Nedved, Oates deals of the past is the Prospal trade
Right, but you can’t undervalue draft picks. I know that most guys who make it to the NHL are 1st or 2nd rounders, but still.
Remember how excited everyone was/is for Joacim Ericsson to get here? He’s a 7th-rounder. Draft picks are never a bad thing.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Travis, Ben and Geoff talked about the issue in the most recent BSH radio show that if the Flyers were to trade away established veterans for prospects and draft picks at the deadline, it would send the message to the fans that the Flyers do not believe that they can win the Stanley Cup this year. Also, if Ed Snider has any sliver of hope that they Flyers can, in fact, win the Cup he wants them to add established players, whether rental or not, to help them in the Playoffs.
Now, I do not believe that all hope is lost. This is a decent team that, if they gel and work out the kinks, has the potential to do well in the Playoffs. They are built for a long playoff run. However, they haven’t proven to me that they have what it takes. In agreement with you, Mike, I propose that the Flyers re-rout their ship, try to accumulate draft picks and prospects and replenish the dried up fountain of youth by dealing their “established” players.
Would that send the message that the Flyers are packing it in for the year? Maybe. A lot of fans would take it that way and a lot of fans would be really upset. But, you’re right, Mike, our approach hasn’t worked. Something needs to change but its hard to change when you are the Flyers and you are doing almost everything exactly right (read: being a consistently top tier team that almost always makes the playoffs and has a serious shot at contending for the Cup) yet falling just short. That is hardly reason to blow things up and start fresh. We haven’t come close to a Penguin, Capital or Blackhawk experience where we sucked for so many years there was no other choice but to start fresh.
It would be a complete 360 degree change in approach and mindset for the Flyers and in the short term probably would suck. But, some solid evidence shows that it might be the way to go, especially these days. I don’t know. Just a thought. Opinions?
by Mitchell Green on Jan 27, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
to be fair
MTL won a bunch of those in a 6 team league and have been in the league for 100 years not quite the same in the post expansion era where they won 6 and we won 2 to be fair
you can[’t] just make a move to [throw] away the future to try to win NOW every year
I believe Carter, Richards, JVR, Carle, Giroux, and Coburn and all part of the future and not “established veterans” and therefore should not be traded, that is what I meant by that statement. The other guys all have NTCs so I rather stay pat this year take our run hope we get lucky, and let these younger players continue to develop. Next year the cap situation gets better hold out and see what can be done. Do you think this team in more competitive this year than last? I do and that is why I voted 80%. Baby Steps…
I Grade as if this poll was conducted on a weekly basis
Wether or not they have a draft pick to use at 11:35 am on 6/27/13 has ZERO bearing on giving them a 70%
What dose go into the factoring is
1) The noticeable improvement over the past 5 weeks
2)Having 3 fill days to build upon the foundation Lavy has set down
3)How pathetically poor a lot of other teams are playing now
4)Listening to Stevens on Vs. last night I realize how lethargic and monotone his voice is, and how it would be impossible to fire up the players by talking! I like the guy but Im glad Laviolette is in.
5) Nine games before the Olympic break and except for NJ the opponents are not doing so well
Wether or not they have a draft pick to use at 11:35 am on 6/27/13 has ZERO bearing on giving them a 70%
You’re not answering the question, then:
That means that you’re taking into account the team’s on-ice performance, management and coaching decisions, and the overall status of prospects and the farm system.
Actually it was intended to be a weekly poll.
Having the odd schedule early on in the season and how busy Travis had been (no blame) It hasn’t worked out to be weekly
Who knows after the Olympics it might be.
So instead I invite you to go make your own poll so you dont have to repeat yourself so often
by Prometheus74 on Jan 26, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
It’s a weekly account of:
the team’s on-ice performance, management and coaching decisions, and the overall status of prospects and the farm system.
If they had made a trade for more draft picks this week, your grade would change.
It doesn’t mean “We only grade on the past week” it means each week you evaluate the near and long-term state of the franchise.
Yeah, even if it was at one point intended to be a weekly thing, I never intended for it to be just a review of the week.
It’s a current thing. How do you feel right now? If the last week makes you feel better or worse about the team, vote accordingly. But I never intended for it to be like a power ranking type deal.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jan 26, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
The CURRENT DIRECTION of this team is what the question asks.
I only said 60%. So I’m not that guy saying were 100%, I know we need work. I’d love a new pair of 3rd d-men, but 20%? This team is a good hockey team. We’re starting to click. There are two teams better than us in this conference. Caps and Pens. Thats it. If we get a lucky playoff spot where we don’t play these teams I don’t think we’ll lose. Who cares about next year. There is plenty of time to focus on that later. This team, right now, it’s direction, is not 20%. Who knows, we make a few trades in the offseason and our future’s set. Thats what we do. Think back. Forsberg, Hatcher, Pronger. This organazation does a great job of taking older players, surrounding them with good teammates and prolonging their carriers. Say what you want but with one pick up next season we’ll be fine.
by orangeandblack20 on Jan 26, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
I have to agree with Mario, it’s extremely difficult to try to make an argument that today, in this moment, in our current state, with the way we’re playing against decent teams, that we’re better than the current state of the Devils or even the Sabres, without even getting into the rest of the conference.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 26, 2010 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
I apologize for that horrific run on sentence, now that I look back on it.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 26, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I am really not sure how you can say teams with better records and Miller/Brodeur guarding the net are inferior to this team. It is a bit of a pipe dream. If anything I’d say we are pretty close with Pitt(slightly behind) and the 4 teams clearly better than us are the 3 div leaders and Ottawa.
by You don't have to be sweet, to be good on Jan 26, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
Our season is split into thirds. First third we could beat any one on any given day. Second third we couldn’t beat the pee wee teams. Now we can beat anyone. We’re 3-0 against both the NJD and BUF in the first and recent thirds of the year.
by orangeandblack20 on Jan 26, 2010 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
But how to do you know which version of the Flyers will show up in the playoffs? Last year, we played much better for parts of the regular season then we played at the end.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 26, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
i agree in part...
big improvement under Lavy but the team is not that good… no bonafide first line RW… only 3 and half denfensemen… and nothing in the pipleline… and no draft choices forever… no excuse for this… holmgren is just not a very good GM… sorry, i always thought highly of him as s player… if they fall out of contention they should trade the whole damn team for picks and start over!!!!!
by Elmo the faithful fan on Jan 26, 2010 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, our pipeline is pretty good, just not ready yet. We’ve got a lot of great defensive prospects, our goaltending prospects have been looking better, and we’re stocked on centers(Even if they might not be top 2 line centers). Wingers seem to be the teams only real weakness as far as looking at prospects.
i voted 60%
meaning the flyers are marginally better than half the league.
that’s all i have to say about that.
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
Same
I think this team has a lot of talent in some areas(Center, top 2 pairings) and glaring needs at others. This team looks great on paper, but the pieces don’t fit together as well as they should and we need help at the blue line on the bottom 2 guys. Simply put too many Centers not enough wings and the Randy Jones fiasco shafted us. That said, if we are willing to make some tough trades(gotta give up value to get it), I think we could be a contender. I am sold on Emery personally, I like the guy a lot and think once he gets sharp he can steal some games. Certainly not an elite guy, but a lot better than he is given credit for IMO. Anybody know when Gags contract runs out? Dude doesn’t have it anymore. And we are seriously reaching milk carton territory with Richie, he needs to show up.
by You don't have to be sweet, to be good on Jan 26, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
way too many holes
poor management… no vision… no plan… poor trades… poor contract decisions… if they don’t make the playoffs… it would be my vote to trade the whole damn team for picks and start over… the problem is holmgren is not the “man”… a good soldier but that dosen’t make him a great GM!!!!
by Elmo the faithful fan on Jan 26, 2010 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
I voted 50 percent because I’m an eternal optimist, but uh, yeah. They probably don’t deserve that just yet.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Same.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 26, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I voted 40% but now think that is to high. Considering we only have a 1% chance to win the cup…http://www.playoffstatus.com/nhl/nhlpostseasonprob.html
i voted 30%
… so we are in agreement….worse yet the outlook is bleak with no 1st round picks until the next century… management has no plan… the best defenseman in the farm system is denis bodrov… are you kidding me? seriously… the only hope is for snider to sell the team… holmgren needs a brain transplant… he is no judge of talent… anybody want upshall, umberger, sharp, sbisa, lupol, knuble ? even alberts would look pretty good right now… don’t get me wrong, i like a lot of the flyer’s players… but there are no real stars (maybe pronger was at one time)… the best to hope for is a an early elimination every year.
by Elmo the faithful fan on Jan 26, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
That says were worse than the Coyotes.
by orangeandblack20 on Jan 26, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
The Coyotes are a pretty solid team, believe it or not.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 26, 2010 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Who wins a 7 game series. Us or them?
by orangeandblack20 on Jan 26, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Coyotes: 30-18-5 in the (currently) stronger of the two conferences; Flyers 26-22-3 in the weaker of the two.
Season series: Coyotes 1 – Flyers 0
The bookies are going to put the odds in the Coyotes favor.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 26, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
I just saw the Coyotes come back from a 2 goal deficit against Detroit with 1:30 to play and win it in OT. Phx would kick Philly’s ass in a 7 game series the way this team mails it in at the end of games.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
What does that even mean… This team has played very well over the past few weeks.
by orangeandblack20 on Jan 27, 2010 2:04 AM EST up reply actions
I would certainly hope us, but it’s far from guaranteed. The Coyotes are a good team with very good goaltending.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 27, 2010 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
I voted 50%, translating to: meh. We’re winning games again but we don’t seem to be able to beat quality teams. Assuming we make the playoffs, how can we even expect to advance if we can’t beat teams currently in playoff berths? And I’m not talking about a normally good team in a slump like the Pens a few weeks ago or a so-so Rags team. Also, no draft picks until the third round (since we all know we aren’t winning the Cup THIS year) so we can kiss goodbye any good picks by the time we get our turn, and with the salaries pushed right up against the cap that means, most likely, no decent trades without giving away the farm again. However, I did increase my confidence vote from the 20% I think I picked last time because Lavi’s system is in place and the effects are slowly coming to surface. The guys are playing harder and smarter and we’re taking fewer penalties (except for those phantom calls- can’t do anything about those.) Now if we can just go out there and beat the Caps or the F*ING Pens when they’re on their game I’ll have more confidence. Until then it’s another season of disappointment. Welcome to Flyers hockey.
I voted 30% because in the grand scheme of things, short of a miracle on ice, this team is not wining a cup and that is the only direction a team should be aiming for, not sneaking into the playoffs with the salary cap maxxed out. I am 0% confident in the GM which ultimately is the person responsible for creating the team and correcting it’s current course. I am about 50% confident in the players and the coach because they are doing the about all they can with the personnel that they play with and have been given use.
you can fool some of the people...
i agree… this team is toast… with no 1st round draft choices for the next how many years… no star quality players and cap problems… holmgren played too many games without a helmet!!!!!
by Elmo the faithful fan on Jan 26, 2010 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
I voted 80%
We are solidly back in playoff contention, and to me 100% confident would mean I think we could win it all. 80% = playoffs, and maybe a 2nd round exit.
Funny, I voted 60% for that exact same reason.
I like Lavvy and his system. The play has definitely taken a turn for the better. The player management (cap included) needs work. But there is enough of an upside that things still look manageable for the future.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Were we duped by stories that the Flyers were going to win it all in the off season? The hype around this team made for great expectations which are proving to be far too hopeful. I think if we were to look back almost everyone could see we don’t have a great team, but a good team that has some holes eg goal-scoring RW, defensive depth.
To come up with my vote of 60% I took a step back and thought about where I thought the Flyers would be now compared to their actual position. They are better than half of the teams in the NHL but some of the moves regarding the draft, cap constraints and the organisational depth makes me think the Flyers aren’t in the top 5 or maybe at a push top 10.
Square Peg, Round Hole
I was wandering do you think the issue with tthe team is that it hasn’t really changed it’s philosphy to match changes in the game? I came across this and wondered if this is an example of the phenomenon. It is discusses fallout from the Flyers boycott of Russian players when the USSR began too crumble:
“However, the ramifications of the Flyers initial boycott were that the Flyers got a late start into tapping into the now-open Russian market, which spilled over into an early scouting disadvantage during the early period after the Soviet Union dissolved. Indeed, during the 1997 Stanley Cup finals, the Flyers were defeated by the Detroit Red Wings who had a sizable contingent of Russians.
In a sign of just how much times had changed, during the 1990s, the Flyers employed a full-time scout, Evgeny Zimin as their main scouting representative for Russia and outlying former Soviet republics. Still, Snider’s Flyers have never had a large Russian presence.”
Not that we need Russians…just citing an example of the difficulty the team seems to have adapting…
In some aspects, perhaps. The whole notion of Flyers Hockey being rough and ready needs to go. Look, polyester is over, disco is gone, the BeeGees are finished, the 70’s long past. Let the Broad Street Bullies go. The modern game has moved on, and the team has too. Management should follow. Sorry… It’s a peeve of mine that they truck out the Bullies when they KNOW they aren’t going to do well. I’m tired of them drumming up the past to cover the shortcomings of the present.
We now return to your previously schedule thread.
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"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Isn't it?
Honestly we don’t even dress a true fighter, Our 4th line is all in the plus and has been killing penalties. Betts is one of our most valuable players. We are talking about a team with Giroux, Carter, Briere, Gagne, JVR, etc. None of those guys are goons. I think a lot of time our reputation precedes us as a goon team and people/fans use it as a tired cop out, and sadly refs subconsciously gives us unwarranted penalties for it.
by You don't have to be sweet, to be good on Jan 26, 2010 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
A good chunk of the Russian players we have had here were not that good.
Andrei Lomakin? Slava Freaking Butsayev?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
That’s because they were godless, soulless, evil commies back then. Now that most of them were born after the fall of the wall they are human again. It is a whole new ball game.
by You don't have to be sweet, to be good on Jan 26, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
If memory serves, the Flyers had an opportunity to get Sergei Federov. Detroit had his rights and they desperately wanted Butsayev, who was supposed to be the better of the two players. We said “No.”
Butsayev came here during Lindros’ rookie year. Can you imagine what this team would have been like with a core of Federov and Lindros?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
draft picks ... really
worse yet the outlook is bleak with no 1st round picks until the next century… management has no plan…
this is not the NFL, it will take 5 years for the most part before a 1st round draft pick unless they are a top 5 pick can have any real impact on a team and so many picks will not cut it look at the JVR draft year all those 2nd tier guys (5-20) are not even close to making an impact. So lets say we win a playoff round then get bounced in the 2nd a fairly optimistic scenario are you saying next year if we had the 15th pick we could plug him in on our roster and now we all of a sudden a contender for the cup? That is not how the NHL works.
So you are saying if we didn’t have Pronger but instead Sbisa and 3 more prospects you would vote higher even though this year we would be in like 11th or 12th place.
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