Bipolar Flyers disappear in third, lose to Thrashers 4-3
by Travis Hughes on Jan 28, 2010 10:48 PM EST
in 09-10 Game Recaps
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What the hell was that?
After a lackluster first period where the Flyers looked like they were turning a three-day-long hiatus into a fourth day, they came out in the second period and scored three Sportscenter quality goals (if hockey was still entertained on ESPN) to take a 3-1 lead into the third.
That comeback doesn't exactly correlate with the end result: the first game all season that the Flyers took the lead into the third and wound up not getting a point. Cue the music.
We can break down film and blame individual players for the Atlanta goals, like Matt Carle for basically holding Ray Emery out of the net on Jim Slater's game-winning goal. Or Claude Giroux, who just stood there and let Slater have the front of a wide-open net on that same goal. Or, Blair Betts, who did the same thing as Giroux on Slater's first goal. Or Chris Pronger and Matt Carle, who both let Ilya Kovalchuk skate through them to a loose puck, leading to a goal at the beginning of the third.
You get the point.
The problem is that all of these mistakes are symptoms of a team that just doesn't have the urgency to clamp down and win a hockey game when it's necessary. This quality isn't one that a Stanley Cup contender or even a playoff contender possesses. It's pathetic, and simply put, the Flyers need to get their heads out of their -- well, again, you get the point.
Did you want some more analysis than that? Oh, sorry. I'm going to mail it in during the third period.
After the jump, an updated look at the playoff picture, questions with answers and the comment of the night. Check out the new widget on the right sidebar of each page for the lowlights.
Playoff Race
- 5th: Ottawa - 55 GP, 64 pts (won tonight)
- 6th: Atlanta - 53 GP, 56 pts (won tonight)
- 7th: Philadelphia - 52 GP, 55 pts (lost tonight)
- 8th: Florida - 53 GP, 55 pts (didn't play)
- 9th: NY Rangers - 54 GP, 55 pts (didn't play)
- 10th: Montreal - 55 GP, 55 pts (didn't play)
- 11th: Boston - 51 GP, 54 pts (didn't play)
- 12th: Tampa Bay - 52 GP, 54 pts (didn't play)
- 13th: NY Islanders - 54 GP, 54 pts (lost tonight)
Questions With Answers
- Can the Flyers effectively shut down Kovalchuk? Nope. As mentioned, he skated right through the Flyers top defensive pairing to score the goal that gave the Thrashers the spark they needed to win the game.
- How does the power play fare tonight after it being a focus in practice on Monday? 0-for-3, but they had a lot more puck movement and it did look better.
- The Thrashers can be a streaky team, just as the Flyers can. Does either team seem to mail it in at any point during the game tonight? Um, the Flyers. Epically.
- Will the Flyers be in sixth place come the end of the night? No, but the Islanders didn't win so they're just in 7th. It's a lot of luck.
Comment of the Night
Someone needs to turn the switch to the "ON" position again.
>> jello44
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Comments
I said earlier that I wanted Giroux to get a star selection tonight, but the third star in a game we lost in regulation was definitely not what I was hoping for.
This game had long stretches where it bordered on being downright boring. Last I checked, we were in a playoff race and every point mattered. I don’t know what to say about the team just turning on and off like a light switch anymore.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 28, 2010 10:59 PM EST reply actions
Thrashers
You forgot about Emery doing his best fish impersonation on that Kovalchuk goal. He has looked bad this year when moving side to side in close like that. Just sorta flops and usually ends up on his belly, not upright in some type of butterfly so he covers at least some of the net because he doesn’t seem to push well.
All of that could have been avoided anyway, had the Flyers but scored a PP goal or two, or just finished any of the many chances they had. This team has a problem manufacturing goals when they need them, and that’s bad heading down the stretch.
You’re right, Emery didn’t look good tonight either.
Welcome to the site.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jan 28, 2010 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks, have been enjoying the blog for a while now, great stuff
by JerseyDriver on Jan 28, 2010 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
He had an x-ray after the game. Might’ve hurt himself on it.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Asham, that is.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jan 28, 2010 11:04 PM EST up reply actions
If we’re going down this road anyway, we should remember Boosh is 2-0 vs the Islanders this season.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 28, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Boosh looked horrible his last time out, and I hope they are going to get him some time, but I’d like to see Leighton, and since I’m going I’d really like to see a win—picked the Isles for a reason lol
by JerseyDriver on Jan 28, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
I was in the hospital for his only game since the finger injury, so I admit I didn’t see it. I was under the impression his finger hadn’t fully healed yet and he was still feeling vibrations in the cut the last time he played. I’m not actively campaigning for Boosh here, I just felt he should be included in the discussion.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 28, 2010 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
The game tying goal is the only defensive breakdown. And it’s because JVR is about 30 feet out of position. Its unclear exactly where Bartulis is from all of the video I’ve seen. Booth he and OKT allowed the goal scorer behind them because they were pinching at the blue line. Each one of them cutting off the outlet pass.
Bartulis pinches a bit on the bench side of the ice, and along with Powe, forces the Dman in that corner to move the puck along the back wall instead of up the boards.
Once it moves to the other side of the ice, OKT moves laterally to do the same thing, preventing that outlet pass. Is this the right play? I don’t know. I do know that JVR is supposed to be in the neutral zone by now because he’s the left winger. Instead, he’s an entire zone’s worth out of position.
(Please note, the “passing lane” in this image is incorrect. The pass is received way closer to center ice, on the space in “Wachovia Center” on the Flyers side of the red line.)
Is JVR supposed to be covering the goal scorer? I don’t think so but I’m not sure. I do know he’s supposed to be in the neutral zone clogging up the passing lane down the middle of the ice. He’s not close to being there, and he’s not even skating to get there.
This is the most infuriating part. While all of this develops, JVR GLIDES through the offensive zone. I’ve carefully watched and drawn a line of the exact distance he glides for. But go watch the video and see how awful his effort is.
The breakdown is clearly amongst the third pairing dmen and JVR. But at least the two dman were covering Thrashers and forcing the play. I would guess that Bartulis was supposed to pinch, OKT was supposed to be on the goal scorer, and JVR was supposed to be in the neutral zone where OKT was. Thus its on OKT for taking the wrong man and JVR for doing nothing. But I don’t understand this system well enough to be sure.
by MarioD on Jan 28, 2010 11:25 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Forgot to add, the alternative theory is that when Bartulis pinches, JVR is responsible for taking Oskars’ position, and thus should’ve been back to cover the goal scorer. If thats the case, OKT probably should’ve abandoned the system at that point and covered the goal scorer.
Either way, Bartulis seems to be doing the right thing. OKT seems to have made an unwise, but logical, play due to miscommunication of where Bartulis/JVR are. And JVR is a 30 feet away from doing anything.
I agree with what you’re saying, but I disagree with your first sentence. It wasn’t the only defensive breakdown of the night.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jan 28, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. I meant that led to a goal. The other three goals are the two catching Emery out of position on the wrap around and the Kovalchuk takeaway. Even if you want to call them bad defensive plays, they weren’t complete breakdowns in the system of where players should be on the ice.
Fair enough, okay.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jan 28, 2010 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
JVR is supposed to cover the point when Bartuilis pinches in yet Bartulis is still sitting at the point where he shouldn’t be given the puck just reached the opposite corner. D-Man can’t let people in behind them nor can they pinch in before our forecheck gets established. Asham has to get on the forecheck quicker, everyone anticipated Kubina playing the puck around behind the net JVR, and Bartulis yet he had too much time to turn around and find Peverly breaking down the middle behind the D that was just a bad play all around by pretty much everyone on the ice.
Giroux’s turnover inside the blueline on the game winner was the biggest mistake of the night. He scored that pretty goal and tried to get too fancy should have got the puck in deep. Youth mistakes tonight JVR, Bartuilis, and GIroux led to 2 goals against.
Good breakdown, but goals two and three should’ve just never happened.
I really wanted to know why there wasn’t a delay penalty when the Thrasher took the net off when JVR went flying around it earlier in the period. Didn’t notice any contact (to the player) at game speed, and no replay that I saw to check
If you’re referring to when the goalie hit the net, I thought it was an honest play; Hedberg got out of position and didn’t realize he was so far behind the goaline and then his stick/blocker were tangled in the cross bar as he dove back across. The penalty is only when it’s done intentionally.
Yeah, I thought it was the d-man who knocked it off, not the goalie. Looked as if he was following JVR and bumped the net. Cause Hedberg was trying to get to the other side by that point. I was looking in front of the goal to see if he was going to be able to throw a pass and then saw the net off and a Thrasher right there.
by JerseyDriver on Jan 28, 2010 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
Also, with tonight’s performance, the Flyers coughed up the secondary tie-breaker to Atlanta.
If just those two teams are tied in points and wins at the end of the season, the next tie-breaker is “points against tied teams”. Right now, Atlanta is up 4 points to the Flyers’ 0. They have a home and home in mid-March, but the best the Flyers’ can do is tie that up with two regulation wins and push it to goal differential.
Obviously, this isn’t a highly likely scenario, but with so many bunched teams, it could be the difference somewhere.
Well, I suppose we could say they’re another Philly team and are destined to let us down. And they have looked great at times, no matter what team they are playing, but just can’t quite get it all together, and then keep it that way. Flashes of greatness, and the winning (streaks and games) are happening when they are pouring 4 plus goals in a night, and it’s hard to lose when you have that much O, but D wins championships. Every sport. All the time.
No, the D is steady, its usually the O, they can eaither get you 7 or put up an egg. They are like Jackle and hide.
"NO HONOR"
The defense was atrocious tonight, if you ask me. Pronger and Carle each had terrible games, Coburn played pretty well, but OKT and Bartulis just aren’t good. A lot of that is OKT dragging Bartulis down, but still.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Jan 29, 2010 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Well, for me, I wouldn’t say that Pronger was terrible (although I was sad to see him get caught flat footed by Kane the second time, but at least he forced Kane wide and around the net and didn’t let him just walk in front), but I was more disappointed in him. That massive human Pavel Kubina was EVERYWHERE last night, being chippy and pushing us around. And at some point I would have liked to have seen this “edge” that Pronger is supposed to play with. He is the only one on this team large enough to step up and put Kubina in his place, and I would have liked to have seen it last night. Not that I advocate Pronger fighting all the time, he’s obviously too valuable, but once in a while he should absolutely be dropping the gloves in defense of his teammates.
"He told me, 'Keep your head up.' I didn't realize he meant the whole season."
I wouldn’t say Pronger was terrible, but he didn’t have a good game. Like 6e said, he got caught flat footed by Kane and he also let Kovy go right around him on the second goal. He did make some nice plays, but two lapses in focuses led to two goals.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 29, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
I just don’t get those criticisms.
First, Kovalchuk skates away from where Pronger is, not past him. Pronger was along the boards for the faceoff. Kovie took a direct line to the net that was higher in the zone than Pronger. Was he supposed to anticipate that Carle would fumble with the puck and hook Kovalchuk as he skated by drawing a penalty?
As for the wraparound goals, Pronger called out the forwards for letting the guy through the neutral zone with speed. Pronger forced him all the way out wide and behind the net, which is a pretty good play. On the first one, Betts fell down and turned the puck over in the slot, trapping Carcillo in front of the net, and causing the odd man rush which allowed that speed. On the second one. Giroux turned it over, got back into the play but Carle blew his coverage and took Emery with him.
I’m asking what Pronger could’ve reasonably done differently?
No, Pronger was definitely pretty solid last night. He had some real nice defensive plays several times.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 29, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
All those are reasonable. And I’m not saying Pronger is responsible for Kovy’s goal – Carle fanned and Emery flopped – but Kovy was Pronger’s man (they lined up next to each other on the faceoff) and Pronger stopped skating when he saw the puck next to Carle. By the time he realized Carle fanned, Kovy was in alone and Pronger was just standing there. He stopped skating assuming Carle would clear the puck rather than follow his man.
He’s absolutely right to call out the forwards for letting Kane go through the zone with speed, and he did the best he could do once he got beat, but he gave Kane the boards and allowed him to make it a foot race before he even crossed center ice:
Why not step up or get in his way at that point? You have a two-on-two, quickly becoming a three-on-three. He could have easily taken Kane and Giroux naturally takes the trailer. Instead, he allowed it to be a foot race, which he would inevitably lose.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 29, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Why not step up or get in his way at that point?
Not sure if thats true, but Chris Pronger is never going to beat Kovalchuk in a foot race. Pronger relies on positioning, and in this case, the faceoff forced him to start the sequence out of position.
Why not step up or get in his way at that point?
In the neutral zone? If he steps up, Kane, with speed, flips the puck in the zone and goes around Pronger or draws an interference call on Pronger.
Whoops, that first block is supposed to be:
but Kovy was Pronger’s man (they lined up next to each other on the faceoff) and Pronger stopped skating when he saw the puck next to Carle.
Also, I watched the video: Pronger stopped skating because he had nowhere to go. Carle threw a chop block on Pronger:
Except he had already stopped skating long before Carle got in his way.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 29, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
however, if Carle doesn’t completely whiff on his clearing of the puck, it wouldn’t have mattered anyway what Pronger was doing. The actual bad play was Carle seeing Kovy bearing down on him, panicking, taking his eye off the puck (instead of calmly trying to coral it) and then completely whiffing on the clearing attempt. That can’t be on Pronger who was probably shifting to skate up ice out of the zone thinking Carle wouldn’t blow the clear.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 29, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
You can see in that picture that Gagne went to the near boards to receive an outlet pass. If Carle has the puck, Pronger obviously isn’t supposed to skate at him, which I guess is the better point.
Carle should’ve had the puck, and the Flyers were spreading out to break out of the zone. There was no reason for Pronger to even be defending a forechecker (Kovalchuk).
absolutely, Carle completed fooked it up and subsequently fooked up the GWG as well. Emery didn’t play awful, he didn’t come up with anything spectacular, but he certainly got ZERO help from his defenseman.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 29, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
If Kane flips the puck in the zone, problem solved. No rush, no out of position, no foot race. How is dump and chase not optimal in that situation?
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 29, 2010 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
No. The worst case for the Thrashers is that the exact same thing happens: Kane grabs the puck, goes around behind the net because its a set play and they score. If Kane flips it soft enough, he has a two on one around the dots with him and the goal scorer against Carle.
and again, this play is on Carle who decided to stop at the exact wrong time. Carle got caught trying to take Kane (who Pronger had already effectively boxed to the outside). The correct play (even though Pronger was semi-beaten was to take Slater bearing into the slot. Instead Carle decided much too late to take Slater (probably because Emery was in position to challenge Kane-which he should be seeings that Kane had a step on Pronger which blocked off Carle’s path to Kane). Carle sees Emery at the last minute, stops short, but still blows him over, leaving Slater standing uncovered at the front of the net.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 29, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
in summary, Carle should have taken Slater, regardless if Kane had beaten Pronger or not. Emery gets the shooter and Kane has a low percentage shot. Pronger is still enough in the play to clear a potential rebound. Bad play by Carle, not Pronger.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 29, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Which is reinforced by the fact that Giroux clearly expected Carle to take Slater, hence he moved down to cut off the wrap around attempt. If Giroux expected Carle to take Kane, Giroux would’ve marked Slater.
Carle’s head was clearly up his ass on that play. On the replay, i imagined Carle as Homer Simpson…“d’ohhhh” as he completely eliminated Emery from the play.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 29, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
I am not a real big hockey fan but
it seems that there are a couple defensive guys that turn over the puck alot. Am I wrong?
Answered my own question with this find:
Anthony J. SanFilippo:
2. The defense is too thin. Chris Pronger and Kimmo Timonen are fine. Matt Carle had a bad game, but is usaully reliable. Braydon Coburn hasn’t been the same since the 2007-08 playoffs when he got hit in the face with a puck.
But the rest of the defense is shaky. Oskars Bartulis has the makeup to be a decent NHLer, but not right now. Ole-Kristian Tollefsen gambles too much and his injuries have limited him from making up for his little mistakes. Even Danny Syvret, who is hurt and Ryan Parent, who had back surgery, are suspect. Sytvret as offensive skill but makes too many mistakes on D. Parent could be a very good shut down defenseman, but can;t stay healthy enough to find out.
They have four defensemen. The third pairing has just been a rotation of awfulness all season.
Parent is the only one of the four worthy of playing every day in the NHL, but he has a chronic back injury which has caused him not to play since I think January 3rd and he just had surgery with a six week recovery estimated. This is his second full NHL season but injuries have limited to just 59/134 games over the last two seasons, when he was supposed to be getting the seasoning and maturity to be a develop into a shutdown dman.
Syvret is awful.
OKT is awful and brittle.
Bartulis is very young and has never been in the NHL before. He could be serviceable one day but he’s been rushed to the NHL due to the above. When Parent was healthy, Bartulis was paired with Timmonen and played quite nicely. Now, Bartulis is the stronger of the his pairing, and there’s no way he’s ready for that.
And a filthy pass to set up Asham, and a filthy pass to set up JVR, and a filthy toe drag in the first that didn’t lead to anything, but was still sick. He definitely deserved the top star in that game, but when your team blows it in the third like we did, it’s tough to give it to him over Slater or Kane.
"He told me, 'Keep your head up.' I didn't realize he meant the whole season."
on the plus side, tonight while drunk at the bus stop a female Penguins fan did threaten to punch me in the face after I asked her who was on the 91-92 Stanley Cup Champion Penguins team. I was wearing my Pronger jersey and she had the thought to say the Flyers suck. This led to a disagreement, where she expressed her Penguins fandom, in which case I asked her to name me 5 Penguins from the 91-92 Stanley Cup Champion Penguins team. She responded by saying I only know players that have played while I was alive. A fellow Flyers fan walked by and said Flyers, and the troll of a Pens fan ran up to him while saying back to her friend I want to punch that guy (me) in the face. This has no relevance to tonight’s game, and I don’t doubt for a second some of you are wishing that she did punch me in the face. I ended the conversation with get Malkin and Crosby’s dick out of your mouth, and then said Alexander Ovechkin is so mean then proceeded to give the crying motion while yelling out wah wah wah. I enjoy State College, Pennsylavnia for this reason amongst others
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jan 29, 2010 1:53 AM EST reply actions
haha, how the hell old is she? 18? Still, I could name 5 Flyers from the Stanley Cup team. Hell, I could name 5 Penguins from the Stanley Cup team. Didn’t she watch Sudden Death??
I liked the story, BTW
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 29, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
these are disappointing times Geoff, and I need to take some victory from the night. No, I ran into her last night (not drunk, and much more polite, she apologized). She was 21. My roommate explains to me (he’s also a Penguins fan) that it’s a bit of an inferiority complex. Despite winning a cup last year, it seems Penguins fans are chomping at the bit to explain to the big brother on the other side of the state how much better they’ve become, and theyre not a joke anymore. It makes sense actually
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jan 30, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Thank god I only watched the first two periods of this crap.
Emery has really not impressed. Put Leighton back in. It wasn’t broke, we shouldn’t have fixed it.
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“It is disheartening,” captain Mike Richards said. “We seemed to be great in that situation all year.”
You have got to be kidding me. Could he make it anymore clear that they were resting on their laurels and just expected the game to finish itself?
In comparison to Richards’ mouth agape shock, Pronger actually addressed the problem, discussing the team’s attitude in the third and what’s wrong:
“We’re controlling the game. For whatever reason, we didn’t come out with the focus and intensity or whatever the right word is,” said veteran defenseman Chris Pronger…. “That’s a team we’re fighting. We’ve got to understand that going into the game. I thought we did . . . You have to have that killer instinct to get that next goal and put that team away . . . that we’re going to dominate teams in the third period.”
I just don’t see Pronger quietly taking a back seat for long. I think he’ll ride out this season, and he is going to have one hell of an exit interview. And I’m not so sure you’re going to see Richards with a C and Pronger wearing orange on opening day.
Pronger
I think what would be more likely is that Pronger is given the C and Richards an A. I don’t think they’ll ship out Pronger after one year, and I doubt he’ll want to give up on the team so quickly.
Richards has the potential to be a great captain but he needs to step down and learn from Pronger for a while.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Taking the ‘C’ from Richards is the best idea at this point. As many have said, look at Marleau in San Jose, he had the ‘C’ taken away and is flourishing. Richie CAN be a good Captain, at this point in time, he just is not ready.
Some think too much, then come too soon
I just curse the sun, so I can howl at the moon
Some guys just aren’t right for the C – anyone remember Tocchet? Maybe Richie’ll be a good Captain in the future, but Pronger seems a better fit at this point in time.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Yeah, Tocchet sucked as the captain. He was easily our best player for the three years before his captaincy. Then he sucked. Then along came Recchi.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
no, Richie is “C” material (despite what Mario says) he just hasn’t effectively learned to swallow his pride and enlist the aid of the other leaders in his locker room.
There is a book on leadership that says any effective leader learns to harness the other leaders in the organization. Instead of seeing Pronger as a “threat” he should make him an ally.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 29, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Does this team seem to have too many cliques to you guys, too? It’s like the certain groups keep to themselves and there’s not much cohesiveness. Perhaps they need another team bonding activity like before the good season 2 years ago.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Was that the year they did the ropes course?
by DragonGirl0583 on Jan 29, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Yep. Whistler or whatever it was. I guess in the end it doesn’t really matter and these guys are all professionals and should be able to play at a high level wherever they go; but, hell, I was in the theater for a long time and even we did team bldg exercises at the beginning of every show. It certainly wouldn’t hurt to mix them up some.
Those were the little things that Stevens did that I liked; switching lockers and stuff like that. It may seem silly, but it’s the psychological side of sports, where even the little things can yield results.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Interesting
Last night after the fight, Richards and Kovalchuk stood around waiting for the referees to tell them what the penalties were. Pronger skated over to find out what was going on. Richards met him before he got to the refs and the two chatted for a minute. Pronger went back to the bench and Richards went back to the refs.
Could have been that Pronger just wanted to find out what was going on and bring it back to the bench, but it well could have been Richards saying “I got it covered.”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
You guys are forgetting though, this team had never lost with the lead going into the third. 23-1-3 or something like that. I’m sure if I asked any of you if you’d take that record we all would agree, yes. Yeah the one loss sucks, and the three OT losses aren’t fun, but this team has been more of a 08 Brade Lidge than an 09
by orangeandblack20 on Jan 29, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
That’s a false statistic and a misleading comparison.
The Flyers have coughed up many leads in the third. They just hadn’t lost the game in regulation before. The accurate comparison for what you’re talking about is the number of times Lidge blew a save and the Phils still won the game.
The Flyers were inches of post from blowing a two goal third period lead to Carolina on Saturday. They allowed Columbus to climb into that game last Tuesday by scoring late in the third to cut a lead in half. Etc. etc. all season long.
Evander Kane is still skating and Pronger has long stopped chasing him. Pronger looked like a 35 year old player in a 25 year old player sport. I watched the game replay at 10 pm just to see if it could look any better but to no avail it looked even worse. I will go on with my life for yet one more season.
by MJDII on Jan 29, 2010 6:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Also, in regards to possible roster moves, I originally figured we needed a scoring winger and a solid 5th defensemen for Carter. But wasn’t sure if that could get it done but now it is apparent Coburn is easily a solid #5 so we really need a #4 and a scoring winger. Again moving on with my life.
by MJDII on Jan 29, 2010 7:37 AM EST via mobile reply actions
On the flyers Leadership (or lack of it)
Good God, what a terrible performance last night. Giving away a 3-1 lead is inexcusable! Where is this teams Leadership? Where are our “high salary cap” players when we need a goal? Richie? Carter? Danny -Boy? Gagne?
We need the leaders to step up in important game situations! Thank God for our role players like Asham, Laps, Carcillo, and Blair Betts. These guys are OVER-ACHIEVERS and this City has always loved over-achievers.
We need more effective leadership at critical times. Richie, Carter, Briere, and Hartnell need to score goals at crucial times. (JVR has more game winners). Isn’t that what high calibre players do? Score when their team needs it most.
How many Alternate captains does this team have? Timonen, Gagne, Pronger, and others, BUT NO LEADERSHIP during crucial periods or games. What Gives?
Maybe the team should watch videos of true leaders that wore the Flyers crest. Over-achievers like Clarke and Poulin, that played well above their skill set. Players that were the difference in games because they wanted to be the difference.
Philly is a blue collar city with a strong work ethic. I would like to see this attitude on the ice!
Wake up Orange and Black!
re: Leadership
Remember when Richards was supposed to be the second coming of Bobby Clarke in the leadership department??? Not even close…he’s flat and does not inspire his teammates.
Give Richards the “A”, and Pronger the “C”…you’d see a quick turn-around in intensity and no laying-down at critical moments.
The 3rd and 4th lines are absolutely carrying the whole team – and not just in heart and energy, but SCORING. WTF??? Three goals in a game, and not so much as an assist from a top-six forward. I realize there are games like that, but this has been a pretty consistent occurance lately. Frankly, I wouldn’t know what to do in Lavvy’s position.
by penguinsfan on Jan 29, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Also, we’ve played like ass in the black jerseys all year. We bring them out for small occasions, and play even smaller. Hang em up.
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Broad Street Hockey.
Carle had a hideous game. needs to stop watching the puck and move his feet… seriously need that 4th defenseman via by trade – or pair up prongs with someone else.
to set the record straight ive been saying break up the D pairings ever since the ‘Flyer depression’ started
by fitzy first on Jan 29, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
It's my fault
I decided that instead of DVR’ing the game I would watch it live. I know everyone has said these things about the game, but let me give you my thoughts for my own sake
OKT and Bartulis are f’ing awful. I thought I would never miss Randy Jones so much. Hell, I didn’t think I’d miss Kukkonen so much. Geez, even Chris Therien was better. (ok, that might have been a bit of an exaggeration…)
Carle was terrible. Just a bad game. I’m sure everyone has them, but when you only have 4 legitimate D-Men (and I use that term loosely because Coburn was pretty bad too) and one guy has a bad game, you’re pretty much fooked.
Giroux is sick. I love that kid. As for the top 2 lines in general, thanks for eating up 30 million in cap space and doing jack. I love how this team makes marginal goalies look like future HOF’ers.
I don’t think Homer should make ANY moves at the deadline. This season is clearly lost (whether they make the playoffs or not, they will be golfing soon enough) and he can only overpay in the market. If he was to get rid of a blue chip asset (ie. Carter) for picks and the future and get someone to overpay for him, he should do it, otherwise, just do nothing. Use the off-season to rearrange the deck chairs.
We should do a confidence poll now. This surely looks like a 68% headed in the right direction team.
The only redeeming fact of my night was that I DVR’d Gary Unmarried. I love that show.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 29, 2010 10:01 AM EST reply actions
To put in perspective.
The things I loved about the team 3 years ago are the things I hate about the team this year.
"NO HONOR"
Mistakes killed us we beat ourselves again and struggle against teams that have really good offenses. The 3 teams in the east that score more goals than us have pretty much owned us this year Pitt, WSH, and ATL. Why is that because the capitalize on our mistakes. This game reminded me of the latest Washington game in that regard.
The View From Section 214
Giroux’s goal was spectacular. I have dubbed that line Claude Van Asham. I hope Ash is okay and Lavi keeps them together. Aside from JVR’s “rookie mistake” that Mario outlined above, I thought he played with a lot of energy. He sees the ice well.
Carle had a horrible game. Once in a while he has a real clunker like that, but he is not the reason we lost. It was a total team effort.
Gagne has really hit the wall. He’s trying but he just can’t get anything going. Powe tried too, but Richards was in outer space. That line cannot cycle down low for whatever reason.
The guy next to me said “Hartnell is a bad fit for this system.” That may or may not be true, but he sure doesn’t look good right now. He won’t get his usual complement of 25-30 goals this year. He’ll be lucky to get 20. Fifteen is more likely. Missing an open net is not a way to help one’s scoring.
My friend and I came up with some hoagie-related jokes. Hoagies, Diet Hoagies, Hoagies Zero, and Diet Hoagies Max: The First Diet Hoagies… For Men. My friend also said that Bob Clarke came across as a “fake Clint Eastwood” so we now refer to him as Clob Clarkestwood. Thank God Clob Clarkestwood is not our GM anymore.
Here is the ideal scenario for the Flyers:
1. Make the playoffs just so Anaheim’s draft pick (acquired from us) is not too high.
2. Get swept in the first round.
Hopefully the above will lead to:
3. Holmgren’s dismissal as GM.
4. Richards’ demotion from the captaincy, and the return of Captain Elbows.
5. Various players being allowed to “walk” so we can use their cap money for free agents (UFAs) and draft picks (RFAs).
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Nice work, I agree on all points.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 29, 2010 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
What cap money?? These are all the contracts that run out in early April:
Carcillo
Asham
Betts
Powe
Pyorala
Coburn
Parent
OKT
Syvret
Emery
Leighton
The equal a grand total of $8.2m against the cap right now. To replace them, the Flyers would need to add, at minimum, four forwards, three defensemen and a goaltender. Even if every one of those eight players they need to fill out the roster cost the league minimum, they’d have a grand total of $4m freed up.
Except the cap is going to go down since league revenue is down another 2% this season. I forget how it gets figured, but lets say its a direct 2% cap decrease; thats about a million and a quarter drop in the cap.
They are definitely going to have to trade someone away. Whoever that is, should probably go bye, bye at the deadline (we’re looking at you Jeff Carter)
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 29, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Here is who you re-sign
Carcillo
Betts
Powe
Leighton
possibly Asham
I’d say they should go after Dan Ellis in goal, trade Hartnell for a legitimate power forward who sets up in front of the net and doesn’t do stupid shit, and get two more defensemen – a second-pair and third-pair guy – either via trade or free agency.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Depends
I should have put a “possibly” in front of his name.
It would really depend on what they do with Boosh. If they keep him, then let Leighton walk. If they trade him, then re-sign Leighton.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I could see a team like Edmonton wanting him. They have basically no goaltending talent in the pipeline from what I understand (at least not for the next few seasons), and while they aren’t a very good team anyway, they’re even worse because Khabibulin is out and they have nobody to throw in there. They’ll need a capable backup next season who could step in if Khabibulin goes down again and Boucher fits that bill.
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by Travis Hughes on Jan 29, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
They’ve got that kid Dubnyak on the roster, I think they’re trying to evaluate exactly what they’ve got in him, and they’re basically trying to lose this year anyway.
So let’s say the Oilers decide to trade for Bouch for next year, anyhow. What do you think they’ll give up for him? They don’t exactly have need to acquire him. A sixth round pick?
I fell in love with Scott Hartnell last year. This season he has been absolutely terrible. Period. (although props to Laviolette, because last night for the first time in two years we saw Hartnell do something on a breakaway other than deke backhand and throw it on goal)
Not that I’m trying to take away from the awfulness that was our third period, but man Atlanta got away with a lot in the last ten minutes of the game. It started with that shift where Hedberg cut off Richards behind the net long after he had gotten rid of the puck and it culminated with Hedberg taking that dive at Gagne. I’m sorry but you can never convince me that that’s not a penalty, especially when Hedberg clearly lifted his pads to trip Gagne, because he thought Gags might get by him by jumping over.
But yeah, another game, another depressing loss. Laviolette should have had these guys ready to come out shooting in the third period, knowing what Atlanta does to teams in the third (+25 +28 goal differential and all), and what happens? A goal against in the first minute. And no offensive pressure until the final four minutes. Geez.
"He told me, 'Keep your head up.' I didn't realize he meant the whole season."
Brilliant
Did you want some more analysis than that? Oh, sorry. I’m going to mail it in during the third period.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I'll second that
And someone yelled at me for saying the Flyers mail it in regularly during the third period on a thread a few days ago.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
I do not understand why the Flyers get away from their system whenever they have a third-period lead. “Oh, we made you play our game and we have all the momentum. But hey, we’re good sports. We’ll let you play YOUR game and we’ll just try to get the momentum back if you tie us or take the lead.”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
It’s called “sitting back,” and it’s what teams with a lack of leadership do. Something has to give here. It’s not the coach. Perhaps the players don’t entirely fit the system, but I actually think they have the talent to run it. They are lacking in blue line depth; that we all know.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Much of team seems to rely on aggressive, instinctual play which downplays tatical nuance and untempered led to the alot of penalties. The latter has seen drastic improvement but the team’s hockey IQ hasn’t. climbed much at all. But if Carbomb can improve in this department so can others. Perhaps Pronger could direct players on the ice more effectively as captain. But I think in most sports a team’s lack of consistiency that contradicts their true talent level often indicates weak tatical understanding of the game. It also could be incompatible parts in the team’s design. We understand this half of the defintion of gamesmanship; " use aggressive tatics such as physical and psychological intimidation or disruption of concentration, to gain an advantage over one’s opponent" but not, the other half which is “the art or practice of using tactical maneuvers to further one’s aims or better one’s position”. The first wrap around goal was forgiveable but the 2nd one was just flat out embarassing. That’s like having your queen taken by the 5th move of a chess match….just tactically oblivious.
I really think we are overvaluing the talent of some guys right now. Bottom Line is that Richards and Gagne simply aren’t top 6 forwards right now. Richards I think is a slump, but I think Gags is done.
by You don't have to be sweet, to be good on Jan 30, 2010 3:07 AM EST reply actions
who to trade?
There lies the question…who to trade. Who has value on the market? Who doesn’t have a no trade clause?
The answer is Jeff Carter. I do not know how much “value” he has on the market. Great season last year and is 3rd in shots this season (a meaningless stat to me). He doesnt fit the Flyers mold and good luck trying to find a video highlight of him throwing a check. Possibly the best wrist shot in the league (who cares if it doesn’t hit the net or cause a rebound). He is the obvious choice to trade!
Others to be considered:
Gagne- A classy guy, with good skills, but who will take the risk with his history of injuries? He is not a high value player.
Hartnell- He keeps things loose in the locker room but his skills are not the best. Has issues keeping the puck in control and on his stick. He is gutsy in front of the net but is a liability due his inability to stay out of the box and his “dumb” plays (throwing his glove at an oppossing player on a break-away)
Briere- has a no trade clause and is a SUPER Individual! Has had issues with injury and probably has value to The HABS, at best.
Who I would like to trade:
Braydon Coburn. I dont get him at all. Possibly the best conditioned and physically fit player on the roster. He was at the top of his game last year, until he was hit in the face with a puck. Has good skills but his mental approach to the game is in question big time. He is slow to react in sitations around the crease and it seems like he simply forgot how to play defense.
I think Gagne and Hartnell both have no trade clauses, as well as Briere. Carter makes the most sense on every level. He has value, we have too many centers that can play on the top two lines so it would not leave the position weak and his contract allows it. If you can fill a couple of holes with him by getting some players with short contracts it would also allow some cap room if the players don’t work out.
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