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Despite agreement among Flyers & Pens fans, NHL botches Gagne goal call

Simon Gagne scored his sixth goal of the season tonight. The record won't show that, though.

With the Penguins on the power play in the second period of tonight's 7-4 Flyers win, Gagne poked at a loose puck in the offensive zone from his position along the goal line. The puck found it's way to the right goal post, where it met the pad of Pens goaltender Brent Johnson, who a second later found himself in the net with the puck.

Here's the video.

It was a goal. There's consensus on the subject from every corner of the Internet.

Obviously, Flyers fans thought it was in, saying in the Broad Street Hockey game discussion thread tonight that, among other things, "it looked in" and "that was so in." Typically though, fans of the other team --especially those in Pittsburgh -- won't agree with us on these things. 

Cue comments from the game thread over at Pensburgh:

That may have gone in

>> FrankD, a Penguins fan

That’s in.

>> Hegs, a Penguins fan

Phew! We dodged a bullet there. That should have been a goal based on what I just saw.

>> OlenWhitaker, a Penguins fan

As you can tell by that last comment, the Penguins did indeed catch a break, as the NHL said it was not a goal, ruling that the evidence was inconclusive. It's an understandable rule for sure, and when the initial call on the ice is 'no-goal', it has to be completely, 100 percent, without a doubt, unequivocally, conclusively, insert more adjectives here, a goal. On this play, league officials said that wasn't the case, despite the fact that Johnson was completely in the net and that he pushed his body out into the crease while the puck followed. 

Star-divide

But, okay. The puck wasn't seen in the net from any angle, and even if it was, it wasn't seen completely over the line, thanks in part to Johnson's black, puck-colored pads. Or was it? Here's The Pensblog on Twitter -- and yes, we're talking about that same The Pensblog.

love how FSN just showed the puck in the net replay

Yep, FSN Pittsburgh showed an angle, live on television, that put the puck in the net. Check the end of this video to see. Of course, the NHL cut it out of the video above. CSN Philly showed the exact same angle, and thanks to a few intrepid folks, we have screen captures of this angle.

 

If you watch the video again, you'll see the puck hit Johnson in the right pad (kind of, Evgeni Malkin's goofy face is in the way) as the goaltender slides back beyond the goal line.

Matt P of The 700 Level put these up on Twitter.

Pens-nogoal1_medium

From that look, you can't see the puck. It could be anywhere, including underneath his leg in the crease there. But here's the next screen cap from just a second later as Johnson slides his body out of the net.

Pens-nogoal2_medium

Hey there, puck. How you doin'? Clearly evidenced by this second screen cap, the puck is on the ice and not under Johnson's pad. Still, the photo is grainy and by rule the entire puck has to be across that goal line for it to be a goal, forgetting the fact that the previous photo proved Johnson was further back in the net and far enough behind the goal line to prove that the puck wouldn't have been on the line.

It's not like we have high-definition television sets with crystal clear pictures these days, affording us a perfect view of the puck across the goal line. Here's a screen cap courtesy of jello44, who posted this in our game thread tonight.

Pens-goal_medium

That's the puck. It's in the net. This angle was broadcast on national television in the United States and on regional television in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Millions of people were afforded this view. If we caught it, there's no doubt that officials in the NHL's war room caught it. Yet they still said that the evidence to overturn the call was inconclusive.

You can argue that, even in that clear angle, a hair of that puck could be touching the line. Sensible people will all agree, and have agreed tonight, that when combining all available views and evidence, Gagne scored.

We don't doubt that the NHL officials in the war room saw the play differently, and we reject any idea that there's a conspiracy here. Those in the war room probably agreed it was a goal, but they didn't see conclusive video evidence. 

When everybody knows it's a goal and the only thing standing between the right call and the wrong call is the rulebook, there's a problem in the rules. As stated, the rule makes sense to an extent, and you don't want to alter things so that you give officials too much gray area and force them into making a judgment call more than is necessary. There has to be some stipulation, however, that accounts for practicality. Officials have to be able to use their judgment when there's clear evidence a goal has been scored, even while there may not be conclusive video evidence.

You see the case above. Amidst one of the NHL's most vicious rivalries, there's consensus on this. Luckily, it didn't have an effect on the hockey game outside of a few momentum shifts, but that doesn't mean we have to ignore the fact that there's a problem here.

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I just saw the highlights on NHL on the Fly. They used FSN Pittsburgh feed and even the Pens announcers were surprised that it wasn’t called a goal.

Thankfully that goal didn’t affect the outcome of the game.

Some think too much, then come too soon
I just curse the sun, so I can howl at the moon

by jello44 on Jan 8, 2010 1:14 AM EST reply actions  

That non-goal I should say.

Some think too much, then come too soon
I just curse the sun, so I can howl at the moon

by jello44 on Jan 8, 2010 1:15 AM EST up reply actions  

The problem I have is more along the lines of, what happens when this goes on during the playoffs and the outcome of games is affected? If there is no room for common sense in the rules, whose fault is that? And why do TV channels have access to shots that show it as a goal when the league’s “War Room” in Toronto does not?

"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27

by Mike B on D on Jan 8, 2010 1:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Remember the Flyers/Habs series a couple years ago, when they went to the War room about 6 or seven times. I swear to this day that they didn’t get a single one of those calls right, But then again, Toronto really dislikes Philly and Mont.

by JpH89 on Jan 8, 2010 2:03 AM EST up reply actions  

How long until Gramps writes a similar post, but with more indignity and conspiracy theories? Cause that’s what Philly wants, right?

Good job not sounding like a bitter and biased spectator, Travis.

Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 8, 2010 1:34 AM EST reply actions  

He beat me to the punch, by exactly an hour actually.

Calls it, and I quote, “dumb.”

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Jan 8, 2010 2:30 AM EST up reply actions  

By the way, that old lady behind Lavy is just creepy…

Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 8, 2010 1:34 AM EST reply actions  

She…. looks……exactly……..like…..Asham…….WOW!!!!! That may just be the creepiest thing ever on BSH

by JpH89 on Jan 8, 2010 1:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Quite honestly, I had no picture initially and she was the reason I threw that one in.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Jan 8, 2010 2:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I just feel badly for Gags. He’s been on the end of some really bad luck this season.

by doubleh on Jan 8, 2010 1:38 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah, but with the way he’s been playing, when it snaps he’s going to explode. He’s just been all over the place, especially these last few games.

"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27

by Mike B on D on Jan 8, 2010 1:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I guess that hat trick means very little?

by JpH89 on Jan 8, 2010 1:44 AM EST up reply actions  

No. Actually it proves my point.

"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27

by Mike B on D on Jan 8, 2010 1:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Ultimately, this is just more fodder for the rivalry.

by doubleh on Jan 8, 2010 1:47 AM EST reply actions  

I can’t really see how, especially that it really didn’t matter at the end of the day. Its not like it hurt/helped either team.

by JpH89 on Jan 8, 2010 1:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but the next time there is a bad call, this will be referenced. Even when you win, there are still things that make you angry about a game. Officiating, defense, whatever. The fact that it was the Pens that they beat helps, but you know what I mean.

by doubleh on Jan 8, 2010 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

As a pens fan, I am actually glad it did not affect the outcome. It WAS A GOAL. The refs botched it on the ice, not on the replay. The “unbiased” goal judges in PGH are never gonna turn the light on for that goal unless the ref points to the goal, and they wouldn’t anywhere else for that matter. But, the replay does not show the puck itself definitively in the net to overturn the call on the ice. The ref on the ice F’ed up.

I think it would be more fodder for the rivalry if it affected the outcome, but it didn’t. Your boys played well and deserved to win.

by Ulf Murphy on Jan 8, 2010 8:28 AM EST reply actions  

You keep this up and you’ll ruin my opinion of Pens fans online.

You’re right though, it would be worse if it changed the game. I don’t mind getting beat as long as it’s legit. Let’s hope they get this straightened out before the playoffs.

"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27

by Mike B on D on Jan 8, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m a little different type of Pens fan. My best friend’s Mom’s back yard ended at Rt 1, just north of Center City, my Dad was born and raised in Bridesburg, and I grew up about 2 hrs outside Philly. I bleed Philly in all other sports, but my pop moved out of Philly in 1962. He still doesn’t “get” Hockey and has refused multiple times to go to a game in person. I moved to Pittsburgh in 1990. Good timing to be a Pens fan. Because of my love for the City of Philadelphia (and my love for the Penguins (even in 04/05)) I am able to see through the bullshit on both sides.

BTW, if you think the typical Pens fan is bad, try being an Eagles fan in Pittsburgh. Steelers fans are the WORST ARROGANT, BIASED PRICKS you could ever meet.

by Ulf Murphy on Jan 8, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

So, since you seem reasonable and you have Philly ties, we could totally convert you.

What’s your price, sir?

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Jan 8, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I respect the Flyers and actually want them to succeed when they are not playing the Pens. I think the Flyers have a great young core in Richards, Carter, JVR, Carle, Giroux, etc, and I look forward to the possibility of this rivalry being strong for the next decade. BUT, When the Flyers play the Pens, I want the Flyers to die. Not quite as bad as having a girl break up with me for being “a barbarian” when I cheered Michael Irvin getting his head smashed into the turf at the Vet effectively ending his career (GO BIRDS), but it is genuine hatred when they play. I am just able to sift through the bullshit and don’t wear rose colored Pittsburgh glasses.

I would hate to pretend I could even be Judas. Not enough money in the world to convert, but you could probably give me a 10 spot to give up my life-long love of the Sixers with the way they are playing. :)

by Ulf Murphy on Jan 8, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

BTW, see ya next time they play.

by Ulf Murphy on Jan 8, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Isn’t it safe to say at this point that the officiating in the league is just brutal? We have several goals/non-goals that just prove this point. I think Detroit (as much as I hate them) have been robbed of at least 2 goals that were clearly goals stretching back to last year’s playoffs.

This isn’t even considering how sloppy/unconsistent the calls on the ice are.

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 8, 2010 10:07 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed, and there’s really no reason for it, considering they have a direct line to guys who make the final say with several television screens/angles at their disposal. I mean, you can sometimes understand why the officiating in the NBA is so bad—sometimes—but when you have the ability to overturn bad calls and don’t/can’t because you’re restricted by the rulebook—it’s time to change the rules.

by doubleh on Jan 8, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Unconsistent? Me do believe thats uncorrect? Haha, sorry, just busting your stones a little bit cause of the “Managing Editor” signature.

by Pondhockey on Jan 8, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

HA. you got me before I got to finish my first cup of coffee…however, as managing editor I have the right to make up as many words as I want.

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 8, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

to me, the crosscheck on asham was a worse no call

sure this was a goal, but if the league is as concerned with hits from behind and head injuries, they should ask their referees to look RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR FACE and make a call: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zun2TYgiLIs

by PoorSports on Jan 8, 2010 10:50 AM EST reply actions  

Do what the NFL does.

The NHL should harness the power of technology / the interwebz and have a small monitor at the scorer’s table / where the zamboni is / between the benches. The monitor would be connected to the network of TVs in the War Room. Thus, the referee who made the initial call on the ice and review the video right along with the War Room.

To me, this makes sense because the referee on the ice is the one who makes the judgment call in the first place. If the War Room cannot come to a clear conclusion, they always defer to the referee anyway, no? Instead of the ref just talking to the War Room and hearing what they see, he can watch right along with them. They can explain how they see it, while the referee has a chance to review his own call (much like challenges in the NFL).

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Jan 8, 2010 11:17 AM EST reply actions  

you (more or less) stole the words out of my mouth, travis: it should not be legal for goaltenders in the NHL to wear black pads. period. i don’t care what your team’s colors are. fleury can wear bright yellow pads, and emery can wear bright orange. it doesn’t matter, as long as it isn’t puck black.

by eeeeee on Jan 8, 2010 11:34 AM EST reply actions  

But then you still have black pants – which took away a Detroit goal against Anaheim last year.

Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 8, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

fair enough, but it’s still something that could be easily implemented that could help alleviate some confusion in situations like these. it’s not exactly a big concession- i know how superstitious goalies are, but surely not too many of them would care about changing the color of their pads, would they?

by eeeeee on Jan 8, 2010 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Not at all. How many of them wear white pads because they blend in the with ice, boards, and netting?

I was just playing devil’s advocate, that’s all.

Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Jan 8, 2010 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

HAHAHAHA

Have you met a goaltender??? They’re loons!!! Roy talked to his posts, but apparently the posts only spoke french. Mike Richter could only sleep on certain sides of hotels when he played on the Jr. Flyers. Didn’t have anything to do with the moon or which way the hotel faced. Just when he got to a hotel he knew where he had to sleep. I mean really are you that suprised? What sane person would be willing to try to stop a frozen piece of rubber coming at them close to 100 mph? Goalies have to be the smartest of the players on the ice, but they also need a screw loose to be good at it.

by Pondhockey on Jan 9, 2010 4:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Why does the NHL not use technology to fix this problem? I can drive 500 miles into the Sahara desert and a GPS can tell me where to find the next watering hole, but the NHL cannot add a chip to the puck and a laser line sensor under the ice to determine if the puck fully crossed goal red? As far as cost, tell the fans who catch pucks that they can get a certified,signed by the teams star “normal” puck to turn in the expensive puck. Or else just have security confiscate it.

by Ulf Murphy on Jan 8, 2010 11:40 AM EST reply actions  

I think this is probably coming sooner rather than later. At least I hope.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Jan 8, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Really it the cost shouldn’t be that big of a problem. Tennis uses it in there balls and they toss them around like beads at Mardi Gras. But yeah, the technology is there, why not use it. You could probably even have it transmit a signal to set off the horn when it crosses the line.

Just a thought of the problems they might have. Anyone remember those Chinese pucks they used to make? They were a tad heavier then a normal puck and had small metal pieces in them that made the puck break apart quite easily. I’m wondering if an electronic chip would compromise the dexterity of the puck.

by Pondhockey on Jan 8, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

The technology isn’t that expensive, actually. Don’t know if you could use an RFID tag type item (what’s in EasyPass or on your cc’s) which are tiny, and almost weightless (they put them inside DVDs and on hospital bracelets, too) as those are able to be tracked via computer. The only issue with the technology is how to store it properly so that it isn’t rendered ineffective (placed near magnets, etc.) and the construction as you note above.

by doubleh on Jan 8, 2010 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree that if the technology is there then use it but in regards to putting a chip in the puck, i don’t see how this can work. The entire puck has to cross the line, if you were to put a chip in the middle that would just prove that the puck is on the line rather than fully crossing it. I wish they could figure something out so they can solve all of these intent to blow problems or even in last night’s case, just flat out missing the goal. Maybe if they put the tranmitters behind the line but still I don’t know if this will still work

by flyers17 on Jan 8, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

If they could actually give the goaltender the power to become invisible there would be nothing impeding the vision of the referees or the cameras. Only problem would be the skaters running into the goaltenders because they can’t see him. And if they knocked him out and he was laying unconscious on the ice no one would know about it until it was too late. I will have to work on that one a little bit more, oh well.

by M from Pdaddy on Jan 8, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Then how would they hand out their random goaltender interference calls? Of course, it would make it easier for certain players to skate into the goalmouth with the puck in their lap unimpeded (or seemingly so).

by doubleh on Jan 8, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea that one is going to have a lot if residual issues, above the whole invisibility thing of course.

by M from Pdaddy on Jan 8, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

They’ve already done this. See Crosby’s goal on Biron in last year’s playoffs. Apparently however, the only goalie the NHL has succeeded in making invisible is on the Flyers.

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 8, 2010 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Shouldn’t be that big of a deal. All pucks are the same size and as close to perfectly circular as can be set 4 (or however many to be as accurate as possible) in each puck an equal distance around the circumference and then set the laser line behind the goal line the same distance that the chip is from the end of the puck.

by Pondhockey on Jan 8, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

That would be pretty cool. How about they could even make it glow on the ice, you know, so it would easier for people to follow the game who never have and never will care about the sport. I am going to call bettman. Only kidding about that part. LOL that was an abomination. And if they give out autographs just make sure it isn’t Cote because poster av3206 might get a little sensitive about it. :-) (That was a fan post joke) Man I like winning it just puts you in a good mood all day doesn’t it.

by M from Pdaddy on Jan 8, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a fantastic idea. It would eliminate a lot of BS calls for sure. But then I’m sure the refs can find other ways to throw a call or two since we’ve seen many phantom penalties on our team alone.

by Kanayd on Jan 8, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but that’s because we still hold the “Broad Street Bully” moniker and the fact that we have Carcillo and Pronger just as incentive to overanalyze everthing the Flyers do. We also have a goon for a GM and… well… being an ice hockey official is just a really tough job. We get the luxury of HD and replays while refs have to follow EVERYTHING that goes on during a game in that specific incident. I know ref bashing is a popular thing these days, but give these guys (or at least some of them) credit for working hard at doing it. They’re expected to keep up with the speed of an NHL game, all the while having to dissect and interperate every action that goes on during games. If I learned one thing from playing hockey, it’s that a ref will NEVER cost you a game. Might make it more difficult, but a few blown calls will not negate what you did with the rest of the game. Make your opportunities count and don’t dwell on what should or shouldn’t have been.

by Pondhockey on Jan 9, 2010 5:00 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree in part

the refs do a damn good job… not perfect but damn good and they almost never cost a team a game…over the course of a series or season their impact is neutral…as for the flyers GM being a “goon”… and labeling pronger and carcillo “goons”… that i’d take issue with that as evidenced by the fact that both carcillo and pronger are clearly able to alter their style of play at will… in other words they can play the game as it requires… as to Holmgren… i don’t think he’s the sharpest gm… too many dubious value trades… too much spent on briere… too many excellent exflyers producing for other teams.

by Elmo the faithful fan on Jan 9, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, the moniker fits. Carcillo is second in the league in penalties, lead the league last year and is constantly having to worry about supplemental discipline coming down on his head. Pronger was voted in the top 5 for dirtiest players last year in SI’s players polls they do. Oh and I probably couldn’t count their suspensions together unless I put sandals on. Again, doesn’t mean they don’t play well, just saying neither is going to be up for a Lady Byng anytime soon.

by Pondhockey on Jan 9, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I know you were just kidding, and this is more of just an idea, not really a good one. But what if all goalies could be invisible. Not actually invisible, but blue screened. Make them dress up in blue or green or whatever color they use and when they go to the War Room they can take the goalie out of the pic and you’ll be able to find the puck everytime. I don’t know if that is actually feasable, but it might be cool to look into.

by Pondhockey on Jan 8, 2010 3:51 PM EST reply actions  

Now that was just outlandish :-)

by M from Pdaddy on Jan 8, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha, yeah I know, little wacky, but would be pretty cool if you could pull it off. I’d guess the puck sensors would be a little more practical.

by Pondhockey on Jan 8, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Well maybe just slightly more practical then my idea of superhero invisibility anyway.

by M from Pdaddy on Jan 8, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I may be forced to hijack this idea…

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 8, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Can I get residuals if this thing actually takes off?

by Pondhockey on Jan 8, 2010 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, you can have the royalties that I make off of it.

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 8, 2010 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Superhero Invisibility? Sorry but I think that scientist dude from the fantastic four might have a problem with that buddy.

by M from Pdaddy on Jan 8, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Link to my story, haha

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on Jan 12, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

As a Flyers fan it kills me to admit the Pens have a good team, even though I know how they tanked so many years to get the draft picks, but the bias towards them is so F*ING OLD already. It’s simply amazing the video (the unedited one) clearly shows the puck over the line, the still pics show the puck over the line, yet the refs fail to see this. I mean come on, when the other team fans and announcers are admitting it’s a goal then man up and give it to Gags. Luckily for us it didn’t make much difference but it’s the principal here. The bias is old and the refs blowing calls is old. The NHL needs to get refs who know wtf they’re doing and can call games consistently.

by Kanayd on Jan 8, 2010 8:25 PM EST reply actions  

It is strange how some sports seemed to have embraced technology while others haven’t. Football (soccer) is the biggest culprit, see Henry’s handball set up against Ireland. But hockey doesn’t seem to utilise all the advances available to produce the best and fairest result. Two big sports that use fancy technology would be tennis and cricket. Cricket, although it is one of the most traditional sports, has 3rd umpires with video to view and they have this awesome piece of technology called hotspot. Basically its a thermal camera and they use it to see whether the ball hit the bat or not by viewing heat transfer.

Yet in hockey they have two video angles to view goals from. Doesn’t seem like they are doing all they could. We got to see the angle where the puck goes in, did Toronto have the same clip available? If so, that is a serious blunder in terms of that game. And if not, its even worse for the league and sport.

by ToddtheFox on Jan 8, 2010 8:31 PM EST reply actions  

Technology can make a Goal Judge obsolete but the union will not allow that to happen!

Unfortunately it comes down to unions. Ever Major sport has Unions for everyone involved. From the players on down to the “cold beer here” dude.

Refs, Umpires, Goalie Judges, Line Judges, Line Official, etc, are all are protected by a particular Union. That union will do everything in their power to make sure their members jobs are secure. They do not care for the fan, or the sport. Their one and only job is to do what is best for their members, regardless of how it affects others. That is in essence the sole purpose of a union.

In some sports the officiating union may have allowed technology to aid in officiating, but they create the wacky protocol to insure ALL of their union members jobs are indispensable, and often created new officiating job.
an example
Tennis judges unions allows limited use of technology to aid a disputed call b/c they made sure everyones jobs are still secure. All 7 or 8 of the line judges. and chair umpire, as well as the new Replay Judge.

However some unions are stronger than others and the strong ones do not have to compromise at all unless they become weak
an example
MLB Umpires Union just allowed a little technology to aid in their jobs, after years of struggle. However they will do everything in their power to keep it at a minimum. In fact the Umpires Union made frantic phone calls which lead to making FOX stop airing the pitch placement graphic on TV when repeated questionable calls were being made during the world series. Anyone notice FOX stopped using the technology?
  
Now, as for the NHL
Technology can make a Goal Judge obsolete but the union will not allow that to happen.
The union can make new adjustments to allow technology to aid in their members ability to get the call right… But will not do so until they have to, or can get something in return. Its their job to act that way.

Its the ugly side of the business

by Prometheus74 on Jan 8, 2010 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

To an extent it’s already happened. Goal judges used to sit behind the goal. They don’t anymore. It’s only a matter of time before their jobs are totally gone.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Jan 9, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Your right, they lost their rinkside seats but they still have a job, plus now some boys in Toronto have permanent jobs.
My Guess is if they put a chip in the puck, Im assuming the Union will make sure to keep the goal judge. Their roll dwindled down to manually press the button that turns on the lamp.
The Toronto group will be used review the electronic chip data in the puck, only when the refs view is obstructed or his call is questioned.
Furthermore they will somehow add some jobs.
Lets say they add a group in Montreal overseeing everyone in Toronto just in case they can not see the data properly because the Boys in Ottawa didn’t fly over to turn the computer screen on properly.

by Prometheus74 on Jan 11, 2010 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

An NHL executive said last night that replay officials in Toronto were not given the proper replays by Fox Sports in Pittsburgh on Thursday, when they ruled that Simon Gagne’s goal did not count against the host Penguins.



Fox did not send that replay to Toronto officials until after the puck was dropped following the ruling.

Philly.com Sports

Why hasn’t the NHL fined FOX Sports or the Penguins? You know that if it was Comcast who “forgot” to send in the one angle that just happened to show conclusive evidence of a goal against, Snider would instantly be fined $25,000 and the organization would be ridiculed by every other NHL fanbase — again.

by Ben Feldman on Jan 10, 2010 10:18 AM EST reply actions  

It isn’t worth fining them because that would be like taking back their own money after investing so much in the Penguins success.

by M from Pdaddy on Jan 10, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. You know, guys, I know how you hate when posters talk about conspiracy theories, but how can you read crap like this and not think about them? I don’t think that the league is anti-Flyers by any means, but it surely does seem pro-Pens.

Treat them as you would any other organization and fine the crap out of them.

Oh, and BTW, during the Leafs-Pens game, the officials went back and gave a goal to the Pens even through it was ruled no goal by the officials and play resumed. Why was that allowed to happen when it wasn’t allowed in the Flyers-Pens game?

by doubleh on Jan 10, 2010 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

The Penguins don’t control what goes on at FSN. I wish they did, though, because Mike Lange would still be on television.

I bet there’s a shakeup at FSN, though, and there damn well should be assuming the NHL isn’t lying to cover their own asses (and I wouldn’t put that past them).

by JustinM on Jan 12, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

And I actually said on Pensburgh that if the Penguins hadn’t already lost that game, I would have been okay with the NHL forcing Pittsburgh to accept a forfeit, again assuming the NHL is telling the truth.

by JustinM on Jan 12, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  


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