Penalty kill gets offensive in Flyers 4-2 home opener win
by Travis Hughes on Oct 11, 2010 11:01 PM EDT
in Philadelphia Flyers Game Recaps - 10-11
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PHILADELPHIA -- For a good bit of time in the third period of tonight's hockey game, it looked as though a weak goal allowed by Sergei Bobrovsky -- the first weak goal allowed in his career thus far, mind you -- could have been the turning point in a game otherwise dominated by the Philadelphia Flyers.
After that goal, the Avs really got a lot of jump and it looked as though they were going to overtake the Flyers, who really had dominated much of the game until that point.
Fortunately for the home team, a series of Craig Anderson flubs would cement the game late in the third. In a 2-2 game late, a combination of bad position and an inabilty to close the five hole were all Jeff Carter would need to bank a Mike Richards pass off of the inside of the Avalanche goalie's leg and into the back of the net.
It would be the game winner, but that was only solidified by another Anderson gaffe a few minutes later. With the Flyers pressing again and Carter positioned firmly in front of the crease, Anderson embellished a slight shove from Carter. The resulting penalty calls -- goalie interference for Carter, diving for Anderson -- would eliminate a potential Colorado power play and would lead to Darroll Powe's empty net goal.
The game wouldn't have been close, though, without a few lulls from the Flyers in the middle of play. After taking an early 2-0 lead on beautiful breakaway tallies by Claude Giroux and Carter in the first period, the orange and black were clearly rolling towards a romp. Colorado, clearly on their heels and a little over-matched, called timeout.
The Flyers didn't really capitalize in the rest of the first period, and a second period lull led to Brandon Yip's goal at 9:03. That allowed Colorado to stay in a contest they really had no business being involved in after the energy shown by the Flyers in the first period.
Nevertheless, the Flyers were able to overcome their own mistakes while taking advantage of Colorado's en route to the victory. After the jump, some bullet points on tonight's game, questions with answers and the comment of the night.
- Claude Giroux and Jeff Carter used the exact same move to beat Craig Anderson on first period breakaways.
- Mike Richards talked about the freedom Craig Berube gives them while on the penalty kill to jump up and create chances. It's a big reason for the shorthanded success the team had tonight. The first three goals were all created near the end or during a shorthanded situation.
- Sergei Bobrovsky did speak with the media this evening through a translator, but the crowd around him was utterly ridiculous. Afterward, one of the members of the Flyers PR staff gave Bob a little "thank you," to which the goalie responded with a thumbs up and a smile.
- Bob was a little jittery, but overall, he was solid.
- If Richards doesn't have the anticipation to jump up in the defensive end and pick off a Colorado pass, the Flyers don't score the game-winning goal.
- Jody Shelley played just 4:14 tonight. He sat on the bench the entire third period.
- In the third period, when the official signaled that Craig Anderson was given a penalty for diving on that decisive play with Carter, Avs captain Adam Foote was seen asking the stripes, "what the fuck is wrong with you guys?"
- In reality, it was a good call -- the perfect example of how a dive and interference (or a trip, etc.) can both be called and warranted on the same play.
- Nik Zherdev was absolutely destroyed by Ryan Wilson at one point in the game. He got up slowly but appeared to be fine. Keep your head up, man.
- Ian Laperriere's ovation during the opening ceremonies was just absolutely incredible.
- Chris Pronger looked good -- his usual self, even -- in his first game back. Peter Laviolette was impressed with his performance and his ability to calm things down.
- Laviolette also mixed up the left wing on the top line quite a bit tonight. He said it wasn't a knock against Dan Carcillo, and that he thought Carcillo played well. "Just trying to win a hockey game," he said. We'll see if he continues experimenting there, because Carter and Mike Richards certainly looked like they broke free a bit with a few other players on their line.
- James van Riemsdyk has been getting a good look on the power play. He seemed to do well placing himself in front of the net, a la Mike Knuble when he was here.
Questions with Answers
- Will the excitement and emotion of tonight's pre game ceremony carry over to the game? If you look at the box score, you might think so. Not necessarily, though. Both teams looked a bit slow off the bat.
- It's Sergei Bobrovsky's first real start in front of the Philly crowd. How does he respond? Again, a bit jittery but pretty solid overall.
- Invisible in the first two games, does the top line show up on the offensive end tonight? Yes, definitely. Helped along by the fact that the wing along side Richards and Carter was switched out at times for someone with a bit of pop.
- How long is the pregame ceremony? About 17 minutes.
- Chris Pronger is expected to return tonight. Can his calming influence help stabilize a defense that has been less than impressive thus far? Yes. It was noticable. Laviolette mentioned it as well.
Comment of the Night
Why the hell would you pay to stare at Coatesy’s back the whole game?
>> Ben Feldman
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Comments
Granted, I missed watching the loss to St. Louis this weekend, but I feel much more relaxed about this Flyers team so far. It is early so I am sure that can change, but I have noticed how I am almost unrealistically confident in their ability as a team. I am sure this can change quickly once they hit a losing streak but I really feel like they matured and found their form in the playoffs and that has continued so far.
They just seem more relaxed on the ice to the point where they dictate play a lot better. They have their weak moments where they are running around their own defensive zone but they have come a long way. They are going to be a very good hockey team this year and I honestly do not believe they are going to be plagued by the inconsistency we saw last year.
Hopefully, I won’t be eating my words later in the month…
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Oct 11, 2010 11:23 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, was thinking about it after the game tonight, and laid back was the term that popped up. Maybe too much at times, like when it seems like they’re slacking off almost. Still have yet to gel as a team, some line chemistry definitely happening. Will be happy when Z gets more comfortable and those three start running on all cylinders.
Hope the inconsistency is gone as well, and the losing streaks aren’t more than two games.
by JerseyDriver on Oct 11, 2010 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Our powerplay has been dreadful.
We looked very crap-tastic for a very long time
Bobs let in a weak one, but he saved our ass in the 2nd
Mez had his best game so far
Coburn had a solid defensive game
Pronger looked good, but he still only looked about 80%
and that diving call was absolute bull. Carter clearly clothes-lined Anderson.
This was a game from last year, where we looked like complete ass and somehow sneak a victory. We have to get better soon.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
The PP had flashes of good plays in this game, but for the most part our zone entrance was sloppy, far too many turnovers in the first 5-10 seconds of offensive zone possession leading to clears and sometimes breaks the other way.
Bob made a number of great saves to go along with a weak goal that could happen to anyone, so I’m not concerned about it. Looks like he just didnt feel it squeezing in his armpit. Did look for a while there like the Avs were going to steal this one away from us but Captain Mike and Jeff decided against it with that third goal.
I have to disagree with you on the diving call – I think it was goaltender interference but it looked as though Anderson had his arm wrapped around Carter’s as much as Carter was holding him. And while Carter did shove him a bit, look at that replay – he flopped like no one’s business.
Oh, just realized that should get some interesting comments
by JerseyDriver on Oct 11, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
looked like complete ass?
What game were you watching?! I agree we pretty much dominated this game aside from a few defensive lapses which led to goals by the avs.
by PhilsForever on Oct 12, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
But sitting a fighter on the bench is valuable in so many ways. Did you see how Shelley’s stare scared Wilson so badly, that he literally ran into Zherdev…amazing.
Yeah, I’m done with Shelley getting 4 minutes. Put someone you can trust on the ice on the third in the lineup.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Obviously he can’t skate well enough to warrant more than an average of about 4 minutes of ice time per game over the first three games.
Sad thing is, that’s a lot of money sitting up in the press box watching the game if you make him a healthy scratch and call up Nodl.
by flyerboom_6 on Oct 11, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Without Jody Shelley guys like Dan Carcillo, Blair Betts, and Darrol Powe are useless. These guys know that they can go wild and hit everyone everywhere because the other guys wont touch them because they know Shelley is on the team. If you have never stepped on the ice to play hockey against a team who has Eric Goddard on it, and you’re best weapon to counter is Dan Carcillo then you have no Idea what you are talking about. With Shelley in the line up everyone has more space… literally. Guys will not take liberties like they would with him out of the line up.
by orangeandblack20 on Oct 12, 2010 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions
But we didn’t have a heavyweight last year and I don’t see how anyones play has changed. This is terrible logic, because Shelley ain’t doing nothing if Lavvy doesn’t put him on the ice. And I commend Lavvy for doing it, because it’s not going to win hockey games.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Look at those guys last year, and how well they played. Betts was possibly the best defensive forward in the league. Carcillo was a penalty drawing machine. And when Powe came in to play, he has already played the same way, with or without Shelley.
Honestly that may have been the worst logic I’ve heard to defend Shelley yet, so I’m assuming you were being sarcastic. Not dressing a guy like Shelley will limit a guy like Goddard’s ice time to about 3 minutes or so…maybe. And when he is out there, your team will have a favorable match up they can take advantage of…I’ll take that any day.
Is this the right room for an argument?
He’s not being sarcastic, he really is that horrifically misguided in his understanding of hockey. He’s been parroting this retarded argument all off-season.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 12, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Prove it.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
There really is no counter-argument we haven’t gone through. So rather countering, I want to be shown something to convince me. Rather than just using cliches and inferences, show me.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I can be stretched to at least see where pro-Shelley people are coming from, but so far he hasn’t done anything. 3 games, 17 shifts, 13:47 TOI. And so far we’ve seen Bartulis and JVR run in St Louis, and Zherdev yesterday (although on a legitimate hit). I can’t recall anything from Pittsburgh except him taking a penalty.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
If the Flyers told Scott Hartnell “Do not fight, ever.” And he listened. And Dan Carcillo was not re-signed. And the team knew Laperriere would miss the season. And Jody Shelley signed for $800k.
In that scenario, I’d be ecstatic the team signed Shelley. But that’s not how it is. Because of that, Shelley will earn my scorn.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Perfectly said.
That way they wouldn’t feel compelled to play Shelley and could give Nodl time with Betts and Powe.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Oct 12, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
That is just the point, he isn’t there to do anything that would find a stat sheet. As a point getter roster spot he is a waste of time, but as an intimidating force used as nuclear weapons he fills a role that almost every team in the league fills nightly. There isn’t enough ice time to go around for all these defensive specialist energy forwards. Swap Carcillo and Nodl because in his 27:30 of ice time he only has a -1 to show for his efforts and he makes 1.1 million.
Just Call Me "M"!
He isn’t doing anything PERIOD. He plays 4:30 a night, can’t catch the guys he is playing and if he tries to start something he will give the other team a PP. Intimidation via Goons is gone in the NHL, it comes from guys like Pronger/Coburn/Richards rocking people who don’t keep their head up and going hard into the boards after the puck. Not a Gorilla on skates flubbing about like an idiot.
Carcillo can draw penalties, can score more than Shelley, can play an up tempo forechecking game. Shelley can do none of this.
There isn’t enough ice time to go around for all these defensive specialist energy forwards
There is plenty, we have no shortage of PK time to go around. We have had no shortage of late game lead protection so far. Nodl’s ability to start in the defensive zone and push the puck forward is something EVERY GOOD TEAM NEEDS LATE IN THE GAME.
Just stop with this intimidation stupidity. It is irrelevant, and Shelley is a total waste of a roster spot. This isn’t the 70s.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 12, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Tell that to all of the other good teams that employ a Shelley type.
Carcillo can draw penalties, can score more than Shelley, can play an up tempo forechecking game. Shelley can do none of this.
Let me know when this happens. And again for the cheap seats: “SHELLEY IS NOT THERE TO SCORE AND PLAY AN UP TEMPO GAME”
Just Call Me "M"!
Yes, cheap seats: Shelley is there to sit on the bench and yell. And stare.
It’s an effective use of $1.1 million.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, I really can’t. And it’s sad because you and I agree on one key thing here, that nobody is talking about: This team does not need both Carcillo and Shelley. We agree!
The problem is that, in arguing for one over the other, you’d rather a guy who can’t play hockey than a guy who can. Because he’s “intimidating”. But that intimidation doesn’t translate at all, since Shelley didn’t prevent the Blues from running Bartulis. Or the Avalanche from taking a run at Zherdev. Or running into Bobrovsky.
Bottom line, you say Shelley is there to intimidate and protect. But he isn’t doing either. When he does, come back and let me know.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t stop! The only run so far this season is JVR from behind. No one ran Bartulis. It is gotten so ridiculous that attempting a body check on a player is an insult anymore.
Just Call Me "M"!
So then, honestly: If he’s only out there to prevent dirty hits, and he failed to do that in at least one of the three games this year, how is he doing his job?
If you remove clean hits that could potentially injure a guy (like Zherdev with his head down, Bartulis with his head down, etc.), you’re making Shelley’s job even smaller. I’m sure you understand that, which confounds me.
If he isn’t going to protect his teammates from dangerous, but clean, hits, just how is he intimidating the other team from taking runs at his teammates?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
You are never going to stop guys from taking liberties. Hell idiots took liberties in the 70’s when you could just jump off the bench and pound a guy for good measure. I think my shelley point has gotten skewed from I value having the guy on the bench for the regular season grind in which most teams dress a heavyweight. I don’t want my pests, Carcillo, Lappy, Hartnell included fighting a heavy weight if he can avoid it. And the code if it is used properly is Orr doesn’t go after Carcillo if Shelley is on the bench, he waits his turn to challenge an equal. And they fight each other as a representative of everyone’s infractions.
Just Call Me "M"!
haha, I love that we just disagree.
If you aren’t going to stop people from taking liberties, and you know that any response from taking liberties will be a staged fight, what purpose does the staged fight have? You’re essentially saying: Hey, Mike Brown! Feel free to take a cheap shot on Kimmo. We’ll deal with that later. Hey, Carcillo! Go take a run at Phil Kessel. Don’t worry about it, Jody Shelley will fight Colton Orr, and we’re all square.
Meanwhile, Kimmo is out for a week and Phil Kessel is out for a week. But thank gosh we have Shelley on our team to set up a staged fight to show how you can’t do that. Except everyone knows they can, since Shelley will fight Orr.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 14, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Tell that to all of the other good teams that employ a Shelley type.
Tell that to the best franchise in Hockey. The Detroit Red Wings.
As for when Carcillo did that…. Last year ring a bell? 42 drawn penalties, a dozen goals and part of a great 4th line.
Shelley isn’t here to do anything, because if he does he gives the other team a PP. Which might not be that a big deal IF HE WASN’T REPLACING ONE OF OUR BEST PENALTY KILLERS. Face it, you’ve been embarrassed in this argument. Your response is basically that Jody Shelley looks mean on the bench and that people won’t run our players(they have) and if they do Shelley will respond(he hasn’t) and having him on the team is more valuable than a defensive forward for a team which will lead the NHL in PIM. Can somebody post the Star Trek face palm picture.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 12, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Bertuzzi, Probert! And they aren’t the best franchise in hockey. They have had a decade or more of success do to the 15 years of not even making the playoffs as a total joke. That group and that run is officially over.
Just Call Me "M"!
Bertuzzi is not a goon, he was a very good hockey player in his prime. Yes Probert, a dead guy, is intimidating other teams from the grave. The Red Wings have clearly been the best run franchise in the NHL for the better part of the last 15 years. They don’t have a goon.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 12, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
They had Brad May last year. But they are definitely the exception and not the rule in so many circumstances.
Just Call Me "M"!
You say Fedorick isn’t a heavy weight, but then now say May is…I don’t get your logic. You can’t go classifying light heavy weights as heavy weights now, when you tell Geoff they don’t count as heavy weights in another thread.
Come on M, at least be consistent.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Brad may is a lock down legitimate fighter. I guess heavyweight is a little misused. Cam Jannsens is not the biggest guy but he is a lock down fighter. And I would give the nod that Fedoruk although not great he is a definite fighter. Hell Cote is a heavyweight, in theory, but just can’t fight that well. He is like Favereau in the friends episode who always gets his ass kicked but doesn’t quit.
Just Call Me "M"!
There is no stat for intimidation. It would be interesting to actually ask some NHL players their take on a role like Shelley’s either on their own bench or the opponents. But I am sure the Pens didn’t put Goddard on the roster for his penalty killing skills.
Just Call Me "M"!
Erik Godard only played 45 games. And he made $750k doing it.
But even then, the fact that the Penguins have a goon on their team doesn’t mean it isn’t a wasted roster spot. It just means the Penguins wasted a roster spot as well.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
The instigation rule has taken out the use of intimidation as a tactic…when will you respond to that fact?
Is this the right room for an argument?
I agree with you even if you are being sarcastic, which i don’t believe you are. Look at the pens games last year with Rupp taking shots at everyone last year and no one is big enough to do anything about it. Teams know that sooner or later in a game shelley is going to be out there and it might not be right after the liberty has been taken but getting your face pounded hurts just the same in the next period as well.
Just Call Me "M"!
Because Scott Hartnell and Dan Carcillo biting people isn’t enough?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope. The best way to resolve those issues is Jody Shelley going out there and getting an instigator penalty. And really Geoff with the emblem on his jersey that could even be an instigator and a fighting major with no penalties from the other team. In fact, he could get a roughing… THEN an instigator…. THEN be the only player to go to the box for fighting. I’d say nobody could count how long the Pens PP would be, but Carcillo did that last year and it was 9 mins.
You all think I’m being sarcastic, but I’m not. The Penguins power play is so awful that might not be a bad idea late in the game if we have a one game lead.
:)
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 12, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
One goal lead, not one game.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 12, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
How the hell could Carcillo actually bite anyone and it was only Hartnell SUPPOSEDLY. I still doubt it ever happened and someone bit asham or something.
Just Call Me "M"!
Eric Godard really intimidated Hartnell there, didn’t he? Good thing the Penguins had him on their bench, or else that might have been a dirty game.
/sarcasm
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Hartnell had to sneak a bite in there so not to be to conspicuous because Goddard was on the bench. And truthfully Goddard was probably as embarrassed as every other hockey fan when Letang and Bylsma stood there like a couple of school girls trying to show his finger to the ref.
Just Call Me "M"!
technically it would be knawing, i cant imagine a four tooth gap does much damage. Kinda like a teething baby or a goat!
Let's do it again
by Cillo stache on Oct 12, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Meszaros Grading
Maybe we can get this going again…looking at you Snevik, Todd, and Geoff.
2.5/5
Seriously needs to be much better along the boards behind his net. Coughed up at least 3 pucks after he had established body position. It was frustrating b/c he put himself in a position to easily win the puck, but somehow managed to get outworked/muscled for it. He had a couple nice plays, but I remained entirely unimpressed. I was going to give him a 3 this time, but he hasn’t brought much in the ozone from what I noticed, so I kept him at a 2.5. I do think he can get better, and if he was stronger behind his own net, he could have easily been a 3.5.
Was is just me or did Timonen look a little slow tonight?
Is this the right room for an argument?
Mez had a good game tonight IMO, made a lot of good defensive plays.
I think age might be catching up to Kimmo, but he took a puck to the leg and another to the ribs early, so that might have affected his game.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
Like I said, I could have put Meszaros at a 3.5/5, but he continues to show an uncanny ability to lose pucks behind his own net that he has no business losing. Until he improves on that, I will continue to grade him harshly b/c those are the kind of turnovers that can easily end up in your own net. I kept a running count in my head tonight…things he did that made me happy, and things he did that frustrated me, 3 happy to 4 frustrating = 2.5/5. It’s basically an average grade to me to reflect an average game…did some nice things, but had some mistakes, that in the end, did not cost the team.
Is this the right room for an argument?
He (Meszaros) played better tonite than in the preseason and the first two games, but still needs to be better for the money we gave him. I’m hoping he’ll settle in and get more comfortable as the season goes along.
by flyerboom_6 on Oct 11, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I only listened to the game, and I think I only heard Mes’ name once. That’s gotta mean something I guess.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
I’ll give him a 3. I was admittedly sidetracked with my internet – stupid Comcast – so I wasn’t paying complete attention. I saw a couple shots of his get blocked – becoming a trend – and a couple poor boards plays. But I saw him make a couple good plays, showing patience, and other than that, I didn’t notice him.
Again, because I wasn’t watching for him, I’m really only judging off about 3 or 4 times I noticed him. He gets a 3.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
listen I HATE COBURN but he played a really good game tonight. We need to get our act together on the powereplay, and why not start nodl instead of shelly wouldn’t that make it easier to split richie and carts more often? I mean i get it u need a tough guy but what about Carbomb speaking of which he had great discipline to not get into a fight tonight after that guy was pushing him around
Coburn had a very Coburn-esqu game. Good play, bad play, good play, bad play. I mean, its hard to say Mez has a bad contract when Coburn gets $.25 mil less to do the same thing.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
i agree see the problem with him is he wont make the little mistakes the mistakes he makes are huge and just stupid plays
Coburn is just a dumb player when the pucks in his zone. he gets lost around his own net and looses his guy too much. He can get soft on the boards too. Hes really good at breaking up rushes though.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
Wow, it’s like you don’t watch the dmen cover their men at all. SO far this season, Coburn has had excellent positioning, and has been a beast along the boards.
Is this the right room for an argument?
From what I’ve seen, it’s other people losing their guys and Coburn trying to scramble to make up for others’ lack of tracking their man in the defensive zone.
by flyerboom_6 on Oct 11, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I was referring in general to his career. I though he had a very good first two games, I just though he had an average Coburn game tonight.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
I agree he has struggled in his career, but I also think his inconsistency last year was largely due to his inconsistency in pairing partner (I also think this is why Timonen’s advanced stats suffered last year). Timonen and Coburn together should have a very solid year, if they stay together the whole time.
I will say this for Meszaros…I noticed him more on the PK tonight, and he did well….except the pass to the point man off the Flyers faceoff win…I screamed some curse words there.
Is this the right room for an argument?
No, it’s just last year, every time he made a mistake, it ended up in the net. A mistake is a mistake, no matter when it happens and what the result is. Coburn’s mistakes in the first couple weeks last season all ended up in the Flyers net, which pretty much set up people’s perspective of him for the year.
FYI, he was not the Flyers worse Dman in turns of turnovers/takeaways last season of their top 4 Dmen…it was Carle. Both Pronger and Carle had more giveaways, and Carle had a worse giveaway/takeaway differential.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Coburn looks a lot better then he did lat year, but he still makes mistakes. like SJU said, his mistakes are usually more costly then Prongers and Carels.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
his mistakes are usually more costly then Prongers and Carels.
I have an issue with using this logic. Just b/c a player gets bailed out by the team, doesn’t mean his mistake was any different by someone who doesn’t get bailed out by the team. If I’m judging players by just watching them, I want to notice what mistakes they make regardless if it ends up in our own net or not, just like I want to notice the positive things a player is doing even if he isn’t scoring if I’m going to praise a player.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Anywho, I know you don’t like Coburn much, and are a big Meszaros fan…and you know I’m a Coburn apologist…so we’ll take this all for what it is…our opinions.
And with that I’m off to bed, a long day of work and golf is ahead of me tomorrow…and I think I have tickets to the USA game tomorrow as well. Man tomorrow might actually be fun.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Except Coburn is playing harder minutes, especially on the PK. He basically had one mistake tonight that sticks out, on the opening face off, and one pinch where I believe either Carcillo or Leino got lazy covering his man…but that isn’t on Coburn, it’s on Carcillo/Leino
Oh and Coburn makes $3.2 versus Meszaros $4mil…that’s a much more significant difference.
Is this the right room for an argument?
I though it was $3.75, but both contracts are pretty bad.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
Nah, Mesz’s is far worse…. The organization has at least seen Coburn do good things for us in the past, where Mesz is an unknown quantity as far as how he does on our team; add that to Mesz’s contract having 4 years vs Coburn’s 2, and I think the gap is pretty wide. Besides, Mesz’s cheap years in his contract are behind him, in that last year he’s going to get 5.5M in actual salary. I don’t want to watch us give a huge raise to a guy playing the way he has been.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 12, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I really hope the Flyers unload him ASAP or he is gone after next season at least.
But, like usual, Homer has dug himself into a hole that is virtually impossible to get out of. No one is going to want a shitty defender making $5 mil.. How infuriating.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Oct 12, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Coburn gets $800k less. As a #4 defenseman, not a #5.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
- In reality, it was a good call — the perfect example of how a dive and interference (or a trip, etc.) can both be called and warranted on the same play.
A good call that was horribly executed. Play should have been blown dead the moment either team established possession. Instead the Avs were able to skate down the ice and fire a shot off on Bobrovsky before the refs finally blew it dead. Had it been any other team besides the Flyers involved, I would have wanted the Avs to score on that shot just to see how that one would get explained after the game.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Oct 11, 2010 11:46 PM EDT reply actions
Not the best game in the world. Early season hockey at its less-than-finest.
But a win is a win and I’ll take it.
Bob likely couldn’t see Hejduk’s flubber shot until it was too late. It was just one of those things. He made up for it by stopping Quincey shorthanded and saving our asses.
Power play sucks right now but will improve. The Flyers usually have good special teams and this year will be no different.
I wish to God Zherdev would move his feet more. He seemed to be a little more confident with the puck tonight, but when he doesn’t have it he just stands there. This will hopefully change as he gets accustomed to playing in Lavy’s system / re-acclimated to playing in Los Estados Unidos.
Speaking of Lavy’s system, we saw it tonight, especially early on. Puck pursuit and good pressure on the Avs players who carried the puck and tried to make plays. It led to solid penalty killing and great defensive zone coverage, especially in the first period. Oh, and it helped the Flyers to score two goals.
If we can look forward to a season full of that system being played consistently, I foresee good things.
But for now, the subjunctive mood: Let us go, Flyers. I wish that you would go.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
From my angle in the seats…behind Hejduk and in line with Bob…it looked like a clear line of site. He just didn’t squeeze. It happened quick, but I definitely did not notice a screen…but I would trust a video replay more than my eyes on a bang bang play that initaially seemed innocent to me.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Have you seen this, have you heard about this?
James Wisniewski Taunts Sean Avery Oct 11, 2010
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Lol, that is hilarious!!! I didn’t see that but I’m glad somebody gave Avery some crap, I’m sure he’s done the same to others.
I do think he may get suspended though, but I’d think it would be worth it.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.
by Lindbergh 31 on Oct 12, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Its stuff like this that gives me hope for HBO’s 24/7 even if its going to be filming Pens and Washington
by Prometheus74 on Oct 12, 2010 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh my god, that’s funny. Doesn’t quite make up for how I felt about Wisniewski’s wining last year, but it does make me dislike him a little less.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 12, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Carter
Better to be lucky than clutch.
Sorry, couldn’t resist ;)
Is this the right room for an argument?
My perspective, through an admittedly alcohol induced haze…
Carcillo played VERY well. The one penalty he saw was Harntell/Lavvy’s, not his.
This is the kind of player he CAN be when his mind is on the game.
The thing is, even when Carcillo plays “very well” he is still leagues below Richards and Carter.
I don’t think he had a bad game but there were numerous times last night where the Carcillo – Richards – Carter line had pressure, the puck ended up on Carcillo’s stick and he left a lot to be desired. Good example: Carcillo gets the puck along the boards just below the face off circle, fires an oddly angled shot, completely misses the net and almost kills the ref. I facepalmed.
He is just not offensively skilled enough to play on a line with them. He noticeably brings their line down. I still have trouble believing that Richards “loves” playing with Carcillo. Why? So he can have Carcillo there to squander scoring chances?
That line looked a lot better when JvR was with Richie and Carts toward the end of the game.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Oct 12, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Well he did play better than richards last night. I love him, but for godsake someone wake richards up! Slap him in the face or something…And Carbomb keeps players away from richards and Carter and gets the pucks to the net. He keeps a consistant energy level, so give him props for that.
Let's do it again
by Cillo stache on Oct 12, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Faceoffs
Betts: 6-4
Briere: 2-9
Giroux:7-7
Richards: 12-7
Carter: 0-2
That is one ugly record for Danny.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
I am Glad to see Carter make some noise. We have to get those point totals up if he is going to have any value on the open market. Hahaha. But seriously he is a very talented player when he wants to be.
Just Call Me "M"!
by MJDII on Oct 12, 2010 5:23 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
when’s that?
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 12, 2010 5:24 AM EDT up reply actions
to clarify, we need to find out when that is, so that we can finally harness this guy’s potential
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 12, 2010 5:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Usually when it doesn’t matter, but last night was the exception. He rarely scores a legitimate game winner in the third when it is on the line. And for you stat freaks out there don’t go looking at the GWG stats. They count the first goal in a 10-0 shutout as a game winner. We need Carter to seem prolific if nothing else to get value for him in his lame duck year.
Just Call Me "M"!
The funny thing is that he really didn’t deserve to score last night’s GWG. He really got lucky. Anderson is a good goalie but Carter’s game winner was as weak a goal as they come. Anderson basically kicked it in. So, don’t go giving Carter too much credit. Hahahaha
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Oct 12, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
with other players wives * coughhartnellcough *
Let's do it again
by Cillo stache on Oct 12, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
One major disappointment
The exclusion of Gagne from the pregame completely. I mean, seriously, the guy existed. I was hoping for some more acknowledgement and respect from the organization.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 12, 2010 5:26 AM EDT reply actions
Not that I totally disagree with you, but what would you have had them do?
Would have been nice if he was flown down for the event but I am sure they figure with him returning this week anyway it’s pretty much the same thing. Gagne will get his moment, he better.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
You could have at least shown his goals in the Boston Series. I am the critical one when it comes to Gagne, but even I think it is a bit ridiculous.
Just Call Me "M"!
Yeah I guess so. I am sure the Flyers want to distance themselves from him as much as possible though. A. Because he was so beloved and B. Because trading him was such a stupid thing to do. Especially when you consider who is now replacing his salary.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I’ve resigned myself to it, but even my fiance noticed it was odd. You heard specific players being called out in the NJ series, and then specific players being called out again in the Montreal series, but the Boston series highlights were oddly silent because they were avoiding saying Gagne’s name.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 12, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
So I guess we are back to the Flyers of last regular season? The one that was seemingly incapable of 60 minutes worth of effort?
Fantastic.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Not trying to be pessimist just a realist. This team is going to be around 5-6 in the east and they are going to be jekyl and hyde all year long. They essentially have the same questions and holes as last year. Especially on offense. The defense is getting a pass from me until December. Defense is about familiarity to the system and the pairings. This offense is still center heavy and the wing position is really weaker then last year without the enigmatic Gagne. I expect better years from Hartnell and hoping for Zherdev to pay off, but really the rest is the same if not weaker. If Bob becomes a phenom of course things will be better but I am hoping for him to just become legitimate and not hide the problems of the team.
Just Call Me "M"!
For the most part I agree with you, but the defense should be improved, which should help to improve if not mask the goal tending questions.
Personally, I would rather the Flyers go all in with Bob this year and see what he is made of rather then even wasting their time with Leights and Bouch. Maybe that is unrealistic if not all together wrong, but I am just so desperate for this team to find a young goalie and establish him as their guy for the future.
As for the offense…the PP has looked dreadful and I can’t really explain why. I feel like Pen’s fan in that regard. So much talent and they can’t get it done. Maybe it’s the system. Maybe it’s just gelling together I have no idea. I do however really think that having Carcillo on the first line is doing more damage than anything else.
As for 5-6th seed…honestly, I think this team is a top 3 team in the East. Maybe I am being optimistic(which would be very unlike me) but I am not really impressed with the East as a whole. I think the Caps will be up there points wise, but not nearly what they have been. You can thank a much improved Carolina and Tampa Bay(play off sleeper) for that. The North East doesn’t really do it for me at all. Maybe Boston will win that division, but honestly, I think the best teams are in the Atlantic. I think the Pens are the class of the division with the Flyers right on their heels. I honestly think the Devs are going to take a major step back this year.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
If the Pens win the Atlantic, that puts the Flyers in the 4th spot at best. I tend to agree with you and M…they’ll be somewhere in the 4th-6th seed come playoff time.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Well like I said, i think they are a top 3 team in the East. Very possible if not likely that a top 3 team in the East, or the West for that matter may not finish with a top 3 seed.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Washington will feast on the south…1
Boston is best in the Northeast…2
Pens can win the middle division (and are better on paper especially when Staal gets back)….3
Buffalo is better then people know(and could lay some lumps on Montreal Toronto and Ottawa)…4
Devils always seem to perform during the season…5
Flyers…6(hopefully they overtake Devils)
7/8, Any combination of Ottawa, Tampa, Carolina maybe Atlanta or Montreal
Just Call Me "M"!
I don’t think you are giving the South, namely Carolina and Tampa much if any credit at all.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Not until they earn it.
Just Call Me "M"!
by MJDII on Oct 12, 2010 9:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They both played pretty damn well last year down the stretch once they finally got healthy. I guarantee that they both make the playoffs this year.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Both? Interesting.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
In my world:
Washington
Pittsburgh
Boston
Buffalo
Philadelphia
Carolina
Montreal
Tampa Bay
Bookmark it.
That’s right…no Devils. No Rangers.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
And you’re putting Carolina over Tampa?!
Color me shocked.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah…the bottom three are a bit of a toss up for me. But I trust Carolina a bit more for some reason. Though I do love and loath(2005 playoffs) Tampa at the same time…
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Fully understandable.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I say:
Washington
Philadelphia
Boston
Pittsburgh
Buffalo
Tampa
Toronto
Montreal
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I would love that. I would equally love giving Toronto a first round beat down.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Love the avatar, by the way. I was at a friend’s house watching the game when that happened. I think it was even funnier because we had the TV turned down and the radio up, so we couldn’t hear what Dubee was saying.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Hahahah thanks.
I just love it because up until then I thought Roy O was incapable of smiling.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Don’t you remember this:
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Is that a smile? It’s like a smirk/smile. It’s a smirkle.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I’d call it a “grin”
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I can agree with grin. I’m so mad I missed seeing that game
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 12, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I left early with a migraine. What’s worse?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Depends on the migraine. I get them to the point of puking, so I would have to go with that.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
haha, so do I.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
They are the worst. I think part of it has to do with me sitting in front of a computer for 9 hours a day for work, on top of what time I spend on at night.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Yeah, that doesn’t help. But the alternative is sunlight, which hurts too.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
True…I keep sunglasses in my desk. I share an office so if it happens and he isn’t here then I just turn off the lights for a bit. Does the trick sometimes.
Really I want to convert my desk into a napping area like George did on Seinfeld.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
haha, It’s a BOMB!
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I was driving home from Montreal that night, and didn’t get into radio range until it was too late. I didn’t hear about it til the next morning when you linked it in the comments somewhere.
Although if anybody can sympathize with you about a migraine, it’s me, considering I’ve been hospitalized by them enough times. If yours are even 25%-50% as bad as mine, I’d say yours was worse.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 12, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, It’s amazing how many people on here get migraines.
I was lucky that night, able to catch it with a visual stimulant to take my pill, but I was so weak, I couldn’t sit there. Got home in time to see Oswalt make that catch.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t blame you, they’re horrid. I’m glad you were lucky!
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 12, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Seeing the Houston game or the one the other night? You didn’t miss anything with that Houston game? That was one of the most upsetting losses of the regular season.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
It was upsetting and ridiculous, but it was interesting.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I heard that on the radio on my way home. Had quite an argument over whether he should have been tossed or not with a Tigers fan.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
He shouldn’t have been tossed, he also shouldn’t have been baited and stared down like he was. It was a total hack move who apparently didn’t understand, or didn’t care about the situation at hand. Howard didn’t do anything wrong until he was tossed. The fact that he did what he did after getting tossed(running down the line after the ump) and didn’t get suspended by MLB shows how much the ump screwed up. MLB for once, didn’t want to make the situation worse.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
No, I did mean the Houston game.. I realize it was disappointing, but I hate missing the game when crazy things happen and having to find out about them later.
by DragonGirl0583 on Oct 12, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
In the last 10 years (of finals), the Stanley Cup champions have played in the following divisions:
3 from the Central (2 were Detroit)
3 from the Atlantic (2 were NJ)
2 from the South East
1 from the Pacific
1 from the Northwest
I think they’ve earned it…
Is this the right room for an argument?
And I believe those 2 South East teams were Carolina and Tampa.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I mean I see what M is saying…b/c of the market’s they play in, it’s hard to build long term success. But the fact remains, they have shown the ability to bring up cheap talent, and put the right pieces in place to win it all, so you can’t just discount them.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Flash in pans both. And if they are competing for the playoffs then that pits the flyers further down. I forgot the rangers in thy mix but fuck the rangers
Just Call Me "M"!
by MJDII on Oct 12, 2010 9:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don’t think the Rangers will make the playoffs. So yes, fuck them.
I will give you the flash in a pan for the Lightning but the Hurricanes have been a competitive team since winning the Cup. I know they did not qualify for the playoffs the following two years but they did finish the year with 88 and 92 points respectively. Good enough in some years. Two years ago they lost in the ECF. And if it were not for an absolutely horrific start last year I think they could have been in the playoffs again.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
“- Claude Giroux and Jeff Carter used the exact same move to beat Craig Anderson on first period breakaways.”
i respectfully disagree. while both finished backhand to top shelf, they both took distinct approaches to get there.
otherwise, am liking what i see out there (and very good writeup, BTW).
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
If anybody clicked the faceoff link – Thank you Travis!!! – I found something interesting:
- Meszaros had 1 defensive zone, 5 neutral, and 1 offensive. He’s being hidden. Yes, he’s paired with O`Donnell (1-4-1), but I’m very intrigued with how this will change throughout the season
I didn’t look to see if that one defensive zone was an icing or not – that takes some time – but I’m fascinated.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 10:11 AM EDT reply actions
I’ve been trying to avoid stats for the sake of our in season analysis. And for the sake of discussions with JpH on the dmen.
Is this the right room for an argument?
haha, not even zone starts? I just find it interesting.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Stop tempting me…I’m doing my best not to say Meszaros’s Corsi seemed to benefit from spending a lot of time out on the ice when Giroux was out there, yet Coburn’s suffered b/c he was matched up most of the night against Stastny’s line, or Duschene’s line. And that doesn’t even get in to zone starts.
Also, if I remember correct, Meszaros’s defensive zone start came on a kill. And if he promptly “cleared” the puck right to their point man’s tape. Which immediately resulted in a shot on goal.
Is this the right room for an argument?
I also compare his Corsi to the team. It was equal.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I just have a feeling all year I will be in this Coburn versus Meszaros discussion with JpH, so I’m looking to compare the two…without the use of stats.
Is this the right room for an argument?
I think both Mez and Coburn are both equal. I’ve always said that. Mez makes more money but both contracts are bad. they would both be #3’s or 4’s on most teams. Why do you keep making it seem like Im calling Mez a top 10 defender and Making Coburn like a scrub?
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
Because saying they are about equal is an epic insult to Coburn.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 12, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do you keep making it seem like Im calling Mez a top 10 defender and Making Coburn like a scrub?
I don’t, I say you have a tendency to defend Meszaros and I have a tendency to defend Coburn. And given we started this discussion after the 3rd game, I can see it being a continuing theme. Why are you acting like a child when I simply said I think we’ll be talking about these two with each other a lot this year?
Is this the right room for an argument?
Oh, and the zone starts are even-strength only.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t necessarily mean HE is being hidden. I mean you have Pronger and Timmonen out there… Wouldn’t you rather have one of them on Offense/defense. Meszaros is a good skater and a decent puck mover, not a bad guy to to start in the neutral zone.
Now obviously I am sure to an extent he is getting sheltered, but it is not like the guy has been Ryan Parent bad. In fact, if he was making 2 million dollars he’d probably be pretty popular. The issue is just that he is in no way worth 4 million friggin dollars.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 12, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Your last paragraph is exactly my point. If Randy Jones was an overpaid #5, how is Andrej Meszaros a “good deal”?
Onto your first paragraph: You’re right that it doesn’t necessarily mean he is, but I did mention he’s playing with O`Donnell, which may be the reason. And I’m certainly not saying he needs to be hidden (not yet), but that he currently is. Even more than that, though, is the fact that he isn’t being used in the offensive or defensive zones. Against Pittsburgh, he was sent out for 1 non-icing defensive zone draw, 6 neutral, and 3 offensive. Against St. Louis, it was 3-1-5. Against Colorado, it was 1-5-1.
So far this year, he has been sent out for a defensive zone draw 5 times in 3 games. O`Donnell was sent out for 4 non-icing defensive zone draws in a single game. Twice. I’m more than willing to say the team is still figuring out Meszaros and doesn’t quite know how they want to use him yet. But up to this point, he’s being sheltered away from the defensive zone. And yes, as a comparison, Bartulis was sent out for a non-icing defensive zone draw 7 times in 2 games.
Bottom line: When both Bartulis and O`Donnell are sent out into the defensive zone more times than Meszaros, I’m intrigued. (Side note: Bartulis has 6 offensive zone draws, or the same amount per-game as Meszaros. So it’s not like Mesz is the “offensive specialist” either).
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ve talked about this before and have a Meszaros hating bromance(at least his salary). Trust me, I am with you all the way.
Honestly, this move might have made sense on one condition. Might, as in I could see Homer’s faulty logic, but at least he was trying to use some logic. That would be if we had 4 very good lock down defensemen who were not very good offensively. Is Meszaros you try to get a PP QB, puck mover and shore up your third pairing. Shelter him with zone starts to get some production from your blue line and put him with a good lock down defense man in even strength situations
What I just described could not be farther from the reality of the Flyers roster. All of our top 4 have at least above average offensive skill. We needed cheap reliable 3rd pairing guys(Like O’Donnell). So in essence, Holmgren is an idiot and offsets every good move with an awful one. Gets Zherdev —> Loses Gagne. Gets O’Donnell -—> Meszaros. Gets Leino -—> Carcillo trade/Metro waiving/Jones fiasco….
It amazes me how obscenely good this team could have been if Holmgren made the right moves. We’d be a contender for the freakin presidents cup.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 12, 2010 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Trust me, I’m with you on the hating the acquisition thing.
But right now, I’m not even passing judgment on his play. I can’t tell yet what is going on with him, but I can’t help but notice how the coaches are using him, which is extremely fascinating.
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SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched the game
Who did laviolette put on carter and richards line other than carcillo where they had more room and were more successful. I did not notice too closely.
JVR was with them a couple times.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
One of which resulted in the GWG.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 12, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
JVR paired with richards and carter would be a killer first line, I hope it stays that way.
by PhilsForever on Oct 13, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
the caption to the third picture in the gallery:
Philadelphia Flyers’ Patrick Maroon, top, checks Colorado Avalanche’s Philipe Dupuis in the first period of an NHL hockey game, Monday, Oct. 11, 2010, in Philadelphia. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)
Isn’t that Meszaros?
Hexwall.
Yeah, it is.
Maroon wore #41 last preseason.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 12, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
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