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2010-2011 Philadelphia Flyers VUKOTA Projections

This year, for the first time, Hockey Prospectus published an annual preview of the upcoming season.  I'm sure many of you have either purchased or read Baseball Prospectus' yearly previews and this aims to be on the same level.  You may recall that we ran VUKOTA's projections for last year's team and commented on the limitations inherent on such a young system.  Well, it turns out VUKOTA wasn't far off at all.  In fact, the system over estimated what the team would actually do.

For those of you who are still skeptical about advanced statistics for hockey, that's perfectly fine.  These projections aren't the same as looking at Corsi or QualComp or GVT.  While VUKOTA does include GVT, we're not going to look at that here.  Instead, we're going to focus simply on the Flyers' projected games played, goals, assists, and point values for the upcoming season.  So, even those against advanced stats should continue reading as we can all agree that those are not "advanced" metrics by which to judge players.

Now, before getting into the numbers, let me first admit that I was given a free copy of the annual.  This wasn't so that I'd shill their book - though I will - but rather because I was already going to shill their work.  Plus, Timo Seppa asked me about my visual - yes, visual - opinions on individual Flyers, to help him write the Flyers preview.  So please, go buy the book.  It's available in a .pdf file for only $9.99 here, or in paper back on Amazon.com for around $20.

So with that, jump with us to see how the projections work and what they are.

Star-divide

Naturally, the first step in giving these projections is to explain what they are.  For this, I'll quote the introduction written by Tom Awad:

For example, in order to project a player like Vancouver's Dan Hamhuis, VUKOTA will utilize a large pool of historically comparable players - say, all defensemen who played the entire season between ages 27 and 28 - and see how they fared the next season, and then adjust Hamhuis' numbers depending on where he fits on that curve.  Mathematically, it's a combination of comparable player selection and multi-variable linear regression.

The introduction this paragraph was pulled from is really fantastic, for both believers and non-believers.  Nobody claims the methods are perfect, and Mr. Awad goes through both the successes and failures of the first set of projections, as well as the limitations not yet overcome and the improvements already made.  It's an honest look at a system that is good but not great.

Forwards

Alright, now to the numbers.  As a team, VUKOTA sees the Flyers changing very little.  They project to score one fewer goal while giving up three more than last year.  Despite this, they project to finish with 93 points, up five from the previous year.  This puts the Flyers in the top-ten of the league in all three categories.

All tables are sortable by column.

Name GPGAPtsPts/82
Blair Betts 62.1 6.3 7.6 13.9 18.35
Danny Briere 65.2 22.5 30.6 53.0 66.66
Dan Carcillo 63.7 9.1 11.5 20.6 26.52
Jeff Carter 77.4 35.8 34.1 69.9 74.05
Claude Giroux 69.8 19.6 31.7 51.3 60.27
Scott Hartnell 71.7 20.2 28.8 48.9 55.92
David Laliberte 30.0 5.1 5.7 10.8 29.52
Ian Laperriere 63.9 3.8 10.9 14.7 18.86
Ville Leino 53.9 10.1 14.8 25.0 38.03
Darroll Powe 60.4 8.7 8.0 16.7 22.67
Mike Richards 77.3 30.1 41.4 71.6 75.95
Jody Shelley 50.3 2.5 4.9 7.4 12.06
James van Riemsdyk 72.8 18.7 22.2 40.9 46.07

You'll notice that there are only 13 forwards included here and Nik Zherdev is not one of them.  Just like last year, VUKOTA cannot predict what a player will do after missing a year in the NHL.  Andreas Nodl is also missing. 

Next, you'll see that the last column is points per 82 games.  This is not in the VUKOTA projections, but rather something I added to give people context.  Since the Flyers only had three forwards play all 82 games last year (but seven play at least 75), it's unreasonable to expect a full season out of everybody.  However, just in case Ville Leino plays 75 games, you have an idea of what VUKOTAs projections equal over a full season.

Some interesting things to note here:

  • Not a single Flyer is expected to breach the point-per-game ratio this year.
  • Only Carter and Richards are expected to hit 25 goals, though Briere would hit 28 over a full season.
  • Only three players (Betts, Laperriere, and Shelley) are expected to see their points per game ratio decrease from last year.
  • Claude Giroux is expected to have a pretty big breakout year, going to 0.735 points per game, up from 0.573.

The big thing to note, however, is the games played and goal totals. WARNING: If lots of numbers make your head spin, jump to the next paragraph where I'll summarize for you.  For these 13 players, VUKOTA only sees them playing in 818.5 games.  Assuming the Flyers don't fall into Devils territory, they will end the year with 984 games played by forwards (12 forwards playing in 82 games).  This is a 165.5 game hole, which will have to be filled by - not only Zherdev and Nodl, but - replacement level players; think Jon Kalinski, Ben Holmstrom, and Mike Testwuide.  Since both David Laliberte and Ian Laperriere are included in that, the Flyers are looking at having marginal NHL/AHL players dress for 259.4 games, or an entire fourth-line of replacement level players participating in an 82-game schedule.

More simply:  basically, adding up all the games played for those 13 players falls short of the number of games Flyer forwards will play this year.  So if you wanted to calculate how many goals Flyers forwards will score, this will come up short.  This is because every NHL team will dress players who weren't on the opening night roster, meaning they will need to rely on AHL callups.  The gap for the Flyers would require a complete season from a fourth-line of AHL players.  In other words, these individual projections aren't meant to be totaled and translated to the team-wide numbers, since there will be additions to the team that aren't as good as those listed above.  More on that later.

Now, before you flash back to the Laliberte - Ross - Nodl line from last year, know that Nikolay Zherdev has some numbers on which we can judge.  Because of Gabriel Desjardins' NHL equivalencies, Robert Vollman was able to adjust for age, player type, and era to come up with an 82-game projection for Zherdev.  While not quite VUKOTA, this is a good starting point.  NHLE sees Zherdev as scoring 16 goals and 39 assists in 82 games.  Since Zherdev has played 82 games in back-to-back NHL seasons prior to leaving for the KHL (and four straight 71 games or more), I feel safe saying VUKOTA would project Zherdev to play roughly 75 games.  That equals 14 goals and 36 assists for 50 points.

If you include Zherdev playing 75 games, the Flyers will then have a 184.4 game hole to fill.  This is not insignificant, since that's over two 82-game seasons of replacement-level players, but much more manageable.  Or, you know, the Flyers could get lucky and have their regulars play between 10 and 20 extra games each (Betts, Briere, Giroux, Hartnell, Leino, and Powe, specifically) making up a big chunk of it. 

Either way, this group - including Zherdev - is expected to score 207.1 goals.  That's pretty good, but what about defense?

Defense

Name GPGAPtsPts/82
Oskars Bartulis 51.8 1.6 7.4 9.0 14.2
Matt Carle 72.3 6.6 25.7 32.3 36.6
Braydon Coburn 72.9 5.5 18.3 23.8 26.8
Andrej Meszaros 68.3 5.9 15.4 21.3 25.6
Sean O`Donnell 62.1 1.4 9.4 10.8 14.3
Chris Pronger 72.0 9.8 35.8 45.6 51.9
Kimmo Timonen 68.5 5.8 26.6 32.4 38.8
Matt Walker 57.3 2.1 6.8 8.9 12.7

Breaking news: the Flyers have a LOT of defensemen.  You'll notice that only Pronger is expected to score 33 points this year, and he's at 45.  Also, Carle is right in line with Timonen points wise.  Even though I've compared the two before, I'm not sure if I'm ready to see them as equals just yet.

Outside of that, Coburn is expected to almost return to his 2008-09 production, scoring at a 0.33 rate per game this year.  Meszaros is right behind him at 0.31 per game.  Then the trio of Bartulis, O`Donnell, and Walker make up... very, very little offense.

The more astute of you are probably wondering how 8 guys with over 51 expected games affects the projections.  Well, the total here is for 525.2 games played among the defensemen, 33.2 games more than the team will end with (6 defensemen by 82 games).  This won't make much of a difference in the scoring projections however, since those likely to see less games (Bartulis and Walker) aren't expected to score anyway.

As a group, the Flyers can expect their defensemen to chip in 38.7 goals.  Now here's where it gets tricky.

Individual to Team - Why You Can't Do It

In preparing to write this, I realized the games played numbers didn't match up.  So I asked Tom Awad of Hockey Prospectus how the numbers are translated to the team scores.  Long story: In order to predict that the Flyers will score 235 goals (one fewer than last year), VUKOTA uses player GVT scores instead of their individual goals projections.  Since we aren't discussing GVT, we're just going to move right along.

Doing a rough projection off the 21 skaters above and filling out the necessary games played gets an expected goals total of 254.  Obviously, this doesn't take into account the difference between forwards and defensemen, nor skill level between 30 additional games of David Laliberte or Jody Shelley.

The long story here is: GVT sees the Flyers scoring the same amount of goals as last year, while VUKOTA sees the Flyers scoring more.  But normalizing for the league numbers, VUKOTA agrees with GVT, prediting 237 goals (one more than GVT, two more than last year).

If you didn't understand this, feel free to ask.  Just know that team totals are different from individual totals for a variety of reasons, most notably the Adirondack Phantoms.

Fun With Alternatives

Because I'm evil, I decided to look at expected numbers from those players the organization either parted with or did not sign.

Name GPGAPtsPts/82
Arron Asham 61.7 8.9 12.0 21.0 27.91
Simon Gagne 64.7 23.0 27.1 50.1 63.50
Bill Guerin 66.2 16.6 22.6 39.2 48.56
Kurtis Foster 64.0 9.1 29.7 38.8 49.71
Jay McKee 58.1 1.4 7.8 9.2 12.98
Danny Syvret 34.7 2.2 6.1 8.2 19.38

Here's where it gets fun. 

  • Asham - He's projected to produce almost exactly the same as Dan Carcillo (two fewer games, 0.2 fewer goals, and 0.5 assists more), for $400,000 less.
  • Gagne - His point total is projected to be between Hartnell (48.9 pts) and Giroux (51.3 points), which is right where Nik Zherdev's NHLEquivalencies are at.  Overpaid at $5 million? Certainly.  Still a solid top-6 player? Certainly.
  • Guerin - Here's where we really get upset.  Guerin, released from a tryout, is projected to score nearly double what Dan Carcillo will this year.  Instead, the Flyers passed on having someone who can be expected to produce as much as JVR this year (72.8 GP, 18.7 goals, 22.2 assists).  Frustrating.
  • Foster - Ah, a favorite of ours. He is expected to score as many points as Bill Guerin this year.  That should say all you need to know.  But just in case, if he were on the Flyers, he'd be the second highest scoring defensemen on the team behind Chris Pronger.  For $1.8 million.  Tambellini with a good signing?  Shocking.
  • McKee and Syvret - The epitome of "just for fun".  Neither one of these guys are any more than a #6 defenseman, but VUKOTA sees them as a better option than Matt Walker and Oskars Bartulis, respectively.  We'll miss you, Offensive Dynamo.

Conclusion

Hockey Prospectus sees the Flyers performing just as they did last year.  Scoring the same amount of goals, while giving up the same amount.  But individually, the Flyers are expected to perform at fairly conservative points-per-game ratios:

Name 07-0808-0909-10VUKOTA
Betts 0.09 0.12 0.29 0.22
Briere 0.91 0.86 0.71 0.81
Carcillo 0.42 0.19 0.29 0.32
Carter 0.65 1.02 0.82 0.90
Giroux -- 0.64 0.57 0.73
Hartnell 0.54 0.73 0.54 0.68
Laliberte -- -- 0.13 0.36
Laperriere 0.27 0.26 0.24 0.23
Leino -- 0.69 0.20 0.46
Powe -- 0.18 0.24 0.28
Richards 1.03 1.01 0.76 0.93
Shelley 0.11 0.06 0.16 0.15
van Riemsdyk -- -- 0.45 0.56

You'll notice that the one that really stands out is Claude Giroux, who is expected to set a career high in points-per-game.  Besides that, both Powe and van Riemsdyk are expected to see moderate jumps.  Everyone else is about as you would expect.

For those that want to know about the goaltending projections, I suggest you buy the book.

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Such a tease with that last sentence…

I wish more people who are all about Carter and the one year he had over a point per game would look at your last chart. It tells you a lot. I’m not saying he can’t do it again, I’m just saying that year was the exception not the rule (same with Hartnell).

Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Oct 13, 2010 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

How about Rich?

I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.

by Katchis on Oct 13, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well Richards, it seemed like the rule was that he was a point per game player, then last year he had a “down year” (still pretty darn good, hard to call it a down year). Where as, everyone was claiming Hartnell and Carter had “down years” last year, but their stats from last year were more in line with their historical performances (meaning their good year was the anomaly, not last year).

Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Oct 13, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mhmm, that makes sense. Thanks :)

I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.

by Katchis on Oct 13, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can only slam Paul Holmgren so many times before I say “I just don’t feel like it right now.”

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I feel like someday in the middle of a rant I am just going to black out and wake up alone in a dark scary place.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Oct 13, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think Carter is a point per game player either. I certainly think that he is a 40 goal scorer and the predictions are only 4.2 goals short of that 40 goal mark.

by chrislanci on Oct 13, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I think he is a 35 goal scorer, and his predictions are only 0.8 more than that ;)

Haha like you said, I just have an issue with applying that term unless players have hit that plateau more than once.

Also, I wasn’t referring to you actually…I know shocker.

Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Oct 13, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Phew...

Wow, this post gave me headaches. Haha. I usually give up midway through when reading stat-like article but I made it through this one. To say that I understood much of it would be a lie but the Conclusion is really interesting and sort of easy to understand. “Fun with alternatives” was easy to follow too.

All in all… Great post, Geoff!

I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.

by Katchis on Oct 13, 2010 3:04 PM EDT reply actions  

haha, thanks. I tried really hard to make this simple, even with that middle paragraph that was admittedly more difficult to follow.

I should probably have written a (And here’s that paragraph without numbers) paragraph after half of those…

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I added a paragraph after the one I personally found most troubling, including a “skip ahead if math hurts” warning.

I’m sorry you didn’t benefit from that, but it was your idea. So if that helps someone, you deserve the credit.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

It definitely did help me to understand it. Thanks a lot!

I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.

by Katchis on Oct 13, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, VUKOTA likes Hartnell alot more than Geoff did in his “Big 4” article. I remember debating him on the point that he was underrating Hartnell, but the 0.68 Pts/82 VUKOTA prediction was even higher than what I argued for. Kind of odd considering his age and history.

by cocon1120 on Oct 13, 2010 3:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Very astute observation!

VUKOTA sees him missing 10 games, yet still scoring 49 points. That would only be the second time in his career he scored more than 48. I’ll stand by my 45-point prediction, disagreeing with both of you!

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone want to give me a quick rundown on what GVT is?

by craigg747 on Oct 13, 2010 3:16 PM EDT reply actions  

It stands for “Goals Versus Threshold” and it’s very similar to the VORP (value over replacement player) stat in baseball. It’s basically how many more goals a player contributed to his team than a “replacement level” player would have.

Last year, Pronger led the Flyers in GVT with 18.5. He was 4th best in the league amongst defensemen, behind Duncan Keith, Mike Green and Drew Doughty. Basically, it’s just another way to measure players across teams.

It also isolates offensive contributions from defensive contributions and shootout contributions, which I find particularly useful. But that’s a bit more complex.

by cocon1120 on Oct 13, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great job.

I was going to say one of the big things it does well is account for ice time. My biggest gripe – and why I don’t rely on it any more – is that the defensive calculation isn’t dependent on the individual player’s performance, but rather his team’s performance. It’s still a useful tool, just not one I’m willing to use like WAR for baseball.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not particularly good as a predicative tool, but it works fairly well at showing how a player did in the past. Sort of like how VORP was extremely high on J.A. Happ’s 2009 season while WAR was much less kind, because they took into account BABIP and strand rate.

We just don’t have a WAR-type catch-all stat yet in hockey, although I suspect someone will come up with one in the near future. Still, I really like GVT because it gives insight into players who are underrated by the public at large.

by cocon1120 on Oct 13, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you hit it exactly right in that first sentence. I still think, though, the it’s biggest problem is assessing the value of a particular player’s contribution on defense. As it stands right now, GVT credits you with your team’s success, then adjusts for ice time.

My big example from last year (besides Scuderi v. Jones) was the Flyers DGVT scores: “Lastly, Claude Giroux (1.7), Scott Hartnell (1.7), Dan Carcillo (1.7), Darroll Powe (1.7), and James van Riemsdyk (1.6) have virtually identical DGVTs. Did they all contribute the same on defense? No.”

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow I didn’t even know Abe Vagoda was still alive let alone have the energy to put out all of these stats.

Just Call Me "M"!

by MJDII on Oct 13, 2010 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I would like to point out Carcillo our 20 pt per season guy is currently playing with the two highest predicted point totalers on the team.

Also I know 2nd year players are hard to predict with this system. But JVR has to get more than 40 pts in the season.

by chrislanci on Oct 13, 2010 5:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Nice charts

Presentation is the key when displaying this kind of info, and you nailed it Geoff.

To me, perhaps I am biased, but I would pick the over on a lot of the forwards points totals. Especially considering I think many of them will play more games than are predicted.

Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.

by ToddtheFox on Oct 13, 2010 5:27 PM EDT reply actions  

haha, to be honest, I provide the data and the tables. Travis makes them sortable and makes them pretty.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh. Nice job, Travis. Too bad there are no Nodl projections, eh?

Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.

by ToddtheFox on Oct 13, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sadly, no.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m more pumped about the tables than the actual content of the post, if we’re being honest. Geoff knows this.

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by Travis Hughes on Oct 13, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha, this is why I never feel bad asking you to do the code.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

/nerdgasm

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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.

by Travis Hughes on Oct 13, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

For sure, without charts, this post is just an unreadable pile of numbers.

Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.

by ToddtheFox on Oct 13, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, and:

To me, perhaps I am biased, but I would pick the over on a lot of the forwards points totals. Especially considering I think many of them will play more games than are predicted.

That’s why I prefer using the PP/G table at the end, as it gives a better idea of what VUKOTA is trying to show. Their games played metrics are often conservative – the method for computing that makes this outcome inherent – which is why I like extrapolating it out to 82, as well as expressing it in terms of 1.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know you didn’t include Goaltending information, but mentioning the estimated goals scored total as the same as last years begs the question, what about goals against? If we look at just GF and assume that it will end up the same as last years total and then take the notion that the defense has improved (whether in the sense that you have a 3rd pairing that can take some minutes from the top 4 to keep them from wearing down, or in the sense that you have a 3rd pairing that is competent enough not to suck as much as last years 3rd pair), one would be led to assume that the goals against projection would be on the lower side of last years total.

And how would the differential translate into conference positioning? Example, last year we had a differential of +11, which ended up translating to 88 points (41-35-6) Colorado had the same differential in the west and ended with 95 points (43-30-9) 3 extra points from the commish, and 2 more wins I’ll credit to the higher goal total compared to us (236 PHI, 244 COL). If we think that the defensive improvement would deduct 3 goals from last years total, and take the one extra from the GF projection above, that improves the differential to +14. Last year, Detriot had a differential of +13 close to 14, and ended up with 102 points, (44-24-14), so can we take this information to project that the Flyers will win 2-3 more games this year than last year?

by bfrank27 on Oct 13, 2010 5:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Right under the bolded word Forwards – which, admittedly isn’t the best place for it – you see this:

As a team, VUKOTA sees the Flyers changing very little. They project to score one fewer goal while giving up three more than last year. Despite this, they project to finish with 93 points, up five from the previous year.

That gives them a goal differential of +7.

But I’m rather impressed that you brought up the goal differential and how it affects the projections. The way to explain how the Flyers goal differential will decrease, but their points are expected to increase is that last year, the Flyers goal differential suggested a better team than 88 points.

I like how you’re thinking, but the Flyers should have won 4-5 more games last year than they actually did. So this year, with a lower total, they should be expected to win 2-3 more than they did last year.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah, I missed the second part of that first sentence.

by bfrank27 on Oct 13, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Though, it would seem that OTL points kind of throw off the estimates, Example, Boston had +6 differential last year, had fewer wins, substantially fewer goals for, though likewise goals against, yet finished with more points in the standings thanks to OTL’s. So that in mind, is offense or defense the more important stat to determine wins, points, and how does the OT point effect these stat calculations?

by bfrank27 on Oct 13, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, OTL throw a wrench it in. I’m not sure which is more important between offense or defense. That’s a good question.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 13, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

It looks like it switches up in some cases. For example two top teams last year won a lot of games by outscoring the opposing offense (WSH, SJS) another few teams won a lot of games by shutting down opponents offense (NJD, CHI). But in the playoffs, when facing the same team in a series of games some of the teams who won one way did not have the same success as they did in the regular season (WSH was shut down by MTL’s defense, we broke through NJD’s defense like fatso breaking through a buffet line). But some did have success (CHI’s defense I believe was a huge factor in every series for them).

by bfrank27 on Oct 14, 2010 9:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Wow. Lots of math and no real content.

Since hockey is not an individual sport none of this really matters. I just use the EYEBALL test. I watch the guys play and then determine if they are any good. Everyone on here HATED the Meszaros trade because of his stats – looks pretty good to me. Everyone on here HATED the Shelley signing – looks like crap to me!

Zherdev is giving the Flyers exactly what I thought he would. Some WOW moves, lots of bad defensive coverage, and some skill on the shootout. He will also drive the coaches insane. So in my book he is 4 for 4.

Phigment

by Phigment on Dec 17, 2010 1:42 PM EST reply actions  

No real content? None of this really matters?

Are you ignoring how accurate this is? That should be all the proof you need that a) there’s plenty of content; and b) it does in fact matter.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999 and Matt Calvert since May 2010
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 3, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

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The 2011-12 Philadelphia Flyers season in GIFs
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The Beauty of Being a Sports (And Flyers) Fan.

Recent FanPosts

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Could Parise and Weber be in Flyers' future?
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SB Nation app
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Hockey Stick Help
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Ilya Bryzgalov has chance to take shot at Flyers fans, does
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Can the Flyers win the Cup with Bryz?
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Flyers in the Off-Season
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Flyers West

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Managing Editor

Screen_shot_2012-01-09_at_12 Travis Hughes

Associate Editors

67865_878600804923_14200876_46395212_2220_n_small Geoff Detweiler

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Contributors

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