Monday Morning Fly By: Penalties and Phantoms News
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 9:04 AM EDT
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Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers-related news...
- Matt Walker may need surgery. Ironic: [CSNPhilly]
- Penalties are killing the Flyers: [Philly Sports Daily] [Daily News]
- The Phantoms started the weekend by beating Syracuse 3-2 [PostStar.com], and had a pretty goal from Eric Wellwood. Video: [PostStar.com]
- In that game, Johan Backlund stopped a four-on-none rush: [PSPhantoms]
- Sadly, they followed that up by blowing a 3-0 lead en route to losing to Albany: [PostStar.com]
- Funny story from Tim McManus: "Healthy scratch Logan Stephenson is entertaining some kids on the concourse. 2nd period underway." [PSPhantoms]
- The Phantoms are looking to receive a video board in their arena soon: [PostStar.com]
- Jakub Kovar stopped 32 of 35 shots in a 3-1 loss [euroflyers] before following that up by stopping 46 of 47, plus 2 of 4 in the shootout on the way to winning 2-1: [euroflyers]
- A Q&A with Bobby Clarke: [The Province]
- Video of Andrei Popov scoring a shorthanded empty net goal: [euroflyers]
- This is the 15th anniversary of the 1996 World Cup, which Bill Meltzer remembers: [Flyers]
- The Ducks sent Luca Sbisa to the AHL: [Anaheim Calling]
- Remembering NHLPA Hockey '93: [SBNation.com]
- An aggregate of NHL power rankings: [From The Rink]
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Well in the end I guess the Flyers really traded 2 first rounders for Pronger. Lupul was a waste and a team killer and Sbisa is turning out to be a bust. If he can’t get a look on that d-core something is wrong. But also in the end 2 first rounders was too much?
Just Call Me "M"!
Depends on the impact Pronger has for the rest of his contract. If he continues to do what he did last year, or close to it, then I think 2 first rounders is fair.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Sbisa is only 20 years old, will be a little while before we find out if he will be a bust.
by TheFlyingWooly on Oct 18, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been thinking about this all weekend, and I sort of mentioned part of it in another thread but I really think Homer needs to go.
Maybe I am overreacting after just 5 games, but honestly, in those 5 games have the Flyers actually looked really good in any of them? Have them actually had one game where they executed for 60 minutes?
I haven’t seen it yet.
Homer was given a gift last year. The Flyers made it to the Stanley Cup, fan confidence was sky high. Not only that but going into the off season Homer was even going to have some cap space to play with. Not a ton, but enough that he could make upgrades to the team and get them back to a position of being a real contender in the East. Except he didn’t do that.
In all my years of existence, which granted is not many compared to some others who frequent this site(26), it seems relatively hard, if not impossible to have a team make such a deep playoff run and still have the fan base pissed off at the GM before the following season starts yet that is what happened here in Philly.
Even in Chicago where they gutted the team the fans understood that it had to be done. Maybe they were still riding the emotional high of winning it all, and that’s certainly fair of them but we had a high of our own and yet…it’s no where to be found.
Instead of Homer upgrading the D and goal tending which was all he needed to do, he managed to drive out one of the most beloved players in the organizations history, off setting his salary with a glorified goon and a defense man that strikingly resembles a pylon, not up grade the goal tending situation, while overpaying to keep it stagnant I might add, and improve the D only marginally. Certainly not enough to warrant the money he spent on it. Mean while, the offense has continued to get worse.
This team, in my opinion is no better than it was last year. I guess the D is better but the offense is worse and the goal tending is the same. So really, given the opportunity Homer had to really improve things for this club he failed, miserably. The report that copper and blue did earlier in the week gives some real quantifiable numbers to it all, but in the end, this years version is no better than last years version. In fact, they might be worse.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Not say I’m agreeing or disagreeing, I’m just trying to make a conscious effort to no longer single out the GM and refer to the organization. I feel that, with some moves, there is pressure coming from the person above Homer. Until we bring in a GM that wasn’t involved with this team in anyway, I’m really going to think twice about how much freedom I view the GM having.
Even saying that, Homer still needs to manage the cap better, and work on his timing of his moves in the offseason.
Is this the right room for an argument?
I guess that’s a fair assessment. None of us really know what type of power Homer does or doesn’t have and how much influence Snider does or doesn’t have.
I would love to see the Flyers bring in someone from outside the organization…but I’m not sure if it will happen anytime soon.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Yeah, as someone that openly bashes Homer frequently, I’m now trying to distinguish moves that could have been influenced from Snider, from the ones that are on him, and he should have done a better job. But yeah, it’s hard to know.
Is this the right room for an argument?
I would say any big picture initiatives come from Snider, then its Holmgren’s job to make it happen.
And isn’t there a guy who’s job is to mange the cap? Even Andy Reid isn’t responsible for the cap.
Just Call Me "M"!
Well considering Reid’s inability to manage the clock it’s a damn good thing there is someone to manage the cap.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Two things Reid and Holmgren have in common. Winning!!! But clock and cap management are more important.
I wouldn’t give a whole lot of credit to Homer for the team winning games. Just like I wouldn’t rip him a whole lot for the team losing games. My issue is that he made the team worse this past off season instead of better when he had the means with which to do so.
Homer has made some great moves sure, but he has also made some God awful ones as well. Imagine what he could do if he actually understood the salary cap.
As for Reid…yeah he has won a lot of games, hasn’t won a ring though. Wade Phillips has also won some football games while in Dallas…two division titles as well…and he might be the single dumbest head coach in all of football. Brad Childress has also won some games and he is also an idiot. My point is, you can win games without being a great coach…those are just two examples. I actually don’t think Reid is all that great of a coach. He can’t manage the clock, he can’t make in game adjustments, he has yet to figure out that running is a good thing. However there are things he does exceptionally well…he is an excellent talent evaluator. Does well in the draft and seems to be pretty good at moving guys on when they are past their primes. But that doesn’t excuse him from his faults either.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
I don’t thing you can say after 5 games and 2-2-1 record the team is worse that it was last year when we only manage 88 pts in the regular season and squeaked into the playoffs. Leino and Pronger are still nursing injuries and chemistry is still be developed on the other lines. Patience my friend patience.
Patience. Patience my love. (0:39) :D
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
She compared you to Gollum, or Smeagol. I don’t know if I’d take that as a compliment. I mean look at the guy. :P
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Haha. I wasn’t comparing him to anyone, lol. It just reminded me of the scene, is all :D And the one who says that line is Gollum. ;)
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
But he’s nice, like Smeagol, so I figured I’d give him the benefit of the doubt there.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
He is nice but if you follow the dialogue you KNOW it’s Gollum and not Sméagol.
G: “What’s it saying, my precious, my love? Sméagol losing his nerve?”
S: “No. Not. Never. Sméagol hates nasty hobittses. Sméagol wants to see them… dead.”
G: “And we will. Sméagol did it once, he can do it again. It’s ourssss, oursssss.”
S: “We must get the precious, we must get it back!”
G: “Patience. Patience my love.”
:D
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Yeah, i get that. I memorized the books over 20 years ago. :P I was just joking that if you were going to compare him to one, it would be the nicer one. Even if they are both ugly and the same person.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Shelly’s 1.1 million and Walkers 2.7 million still don’t equal Gagne’s 5 million not matter how you do the math. So you have to consider Zherdev in there as well.
And Meszaros has played better than anyone of this site would have expected. He is playing close to 20 minutes per game. That is not 3rd pair minutes and is doing exactly what he is supposed to allow Pronger to play less. Pronger and Carle are down to 20 minutes per game and will probably get about 22 minutes per game when Pronger is back all the way healthy. Bartulis can’t play Meszaros minutes. He was only getting 11 minutes per game and looked horrible when doing so.
Meszaros replacing Oskars is not as you put it marginal upgrade.
It is only 5 games in. I personally Flyers looked really good against Tampa despite losing the game that forecheck was intense Tampa was opportunistic and capitalized on their good scoring chances. The Flyers did not. Our PP hasn’t got going yet. And their is some Flexibility in the Cap having Walker and Carcillo as pretty much being expendable that we can do something at the deadline. It is a long season. 2-2-1 with two games against Pittsburgh is not horrendous.
Currently Toronto is leading the Conference and The Islanders are leading the division with the Devils in 15th place. Do you really think those trends are going to continue. Also we are only 1 pt out of 3rd place behind those Islanders and the Penquins. Calm down.
I think we controlled the play for most of the games so far. Minus the 1st period against the Pens and Blues in the 1st two games of the season, and the 2nd period of last game against the Pens when we got behind the 8-ball with the penalties.
Chris, don’t make me repost how they could have kept Gagne during this offseason and added the same amount of value to the 3rd pairing/power play, and also improved in goal haha. We’ve been through that.
Is this the right room for an argument?
I must’ve missed that. And I’d love to read it. Any chance you could send it to my email? :D
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Yeah, I’ll search for it and pull it up, then send it to you Kat.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Thanks a lot!
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Read. Wish you were our GM :P
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
That is true. But I’m sure you’d see trading Gagne as the last option, not as the first. Right? Right? :P
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Haha, it depends who sends me more threatening emails, you or Snider hahaha.
But yeah, if I’m making a run at the cup this year, I’m not dumping his expiring contract with the flood of 3rd pairing talent, and cheap goaltending talent available this past offseason.
Is this the right room for an argument?
What if we changed “dumping” to “getting return for”? What we did was the former, but realistically, the latter should have been an option.
I honestly think that, in their mind, Walker was a necessary return for Gagne. I don’t think they were overly enthused with Bartulis at all – oddly enough, AFTER they gave him the contract extension. And I don’t think they’re happy with him now. I think they honestly thought they could rotate O’Donnell and Walker out of the 7th spot and they wouldn’t suffer for defensive depth.
I’m not excusing the Gagne thing, I’m just trying to think like Homer. It’s not an easy task.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
think like Homer
Try hitting the brick wall with you head. Then you might get the right feeling.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Shelly’s 1.1 million and Walkers 2.7 million still don’t equal Gagne’s 5 million not matter how you do the math. So you have to consider Zherdev in there as well.
When I said a defense man that resembled a pylon, I was thinking of Meszaros, not Walker, but since you mentioned him, Walker doesn’t exactly make Homer look like any great genius.
Yes Meszaros has played 20 minutes a game, which is great, and yes it does allow Pronger and Carle to play less, all good things, except he hasn’t done much in those games at all. Has he actually found the net yet on one of his shots? Seems like everything he shots ends up running into some type of police barricade on the way.
You are absolutely right, I don’t expect NYI or Tor to be anywhere near the top of the conference/division when it’s all said and done, but I do expect the Flyers to be there and based on what I have seen so far, I don’t think that will be the case.
Yes the Flyers have controlled parts of games, but they have yet to control an entire game, which, is something good teams do. Not every game mind you but they do it.
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Yes the Flyers have controlled parts of games, but they have yet to control an entire game, which, is something good teams do. Not every game mind you but they do it.
I disagree I think good teams find a way to win. That don’t have to control all 60minutes of the game they just have to capitalize on breakdowns and score the PP. Pretty much exactly what the Pens did last game. They found a way to win.
Exactly. Sometimes they find ways to win and other times they dominate from start to finish. The team has to be able to do both. To be honest the Pens didn’t find a way to win so much as hang on until they could cash in on their opportunities, it was a 5-1 game not a 2-1 squeeker.
That game turned on a dime though we controlled 90% of the play one bad line change bang goal. 1 bad turnover bang another goal. 2 posts by the Flyers. Then all the penalties bang bang 2 PP goals 4-1.
Hmm…great point. Thinking back on it now, we actually did play pretty well for most of the game. The Penguins just punished us heavily for our lapses. Still, I’d be happier if lapses of that magnitude didn’t happen (or if we could take advantage of other team’s lapses more often)…
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Maybe I am overreacting after just 5 games, but honestly, in those 5 games have the Flyers actually looked really good in any of them? Have them (sic) actually had one game where they executed for 60 minutes?
I’ve said this in other threads, and I’ll say it again here: Let’s be patient. Not only do the Flyers have a number of new players on the team, the existing players are adapting to Laviolette’s system. Remember, last year Lavy implemented a compromised, trapping version of his system because he didn’t have the defensive depth to handle his normally more aggressive style like we’re seeing now.
Plus, early season hockey is no indicator of how the rest of the season will go. Two seasons ago, the Flyers started 0-3-3; if not for 20 lousy minutes against the Rangers in the last game of the season, they would have finished with 100 or 101 points and would have been top-4 in the conference. Last year, the team started 12-5-1, and we all know what happened after that. The 1995 post-lockout Flyers had an awful 3-7-1 start before really taking off. The 1993-94 team started 11-3-0; they won only 24 more games after that and missed the playoffs.
If they’re still doing this in late November then we have a problem. But we’ve got to be patient for now.
That said, I’m no fan of Holmgren, nor am I a fan of how the organ-eye-zation fills its front office with loyal “family” members. That’s in part why I was praising Tampa Bay in the “Gagne is back” thread last week. The team and the front office sucked, so they went out and got Steve Yzerman, who is a bright hockey mind and no doubt knows what it takes to win in today’s game.
The Flyers have been resting on their laurels for too long. Back in the 1970s, when they had something to prove, they were one of the most innovative teams in the league. They were the first team to have an assistant coach, the first team to prepare for games using video, and they perfected the art of balancing talent and toughness in order to win a championship.
But the organ-eye-zation does not realize that those who helped to build the Flyers’ legacy of excellence are NOT the right people to build a team equipped to win in today’s game. And that’s never going to change until Ed Snider is out of the picture completely.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
^This. Snider still calls a lot of shots with regard to roster building, I would bet money on it. And because he wants to be hands on, he hires organizational soldiers and yes men, not unlike Jerruh Jones in Dallas. Jerruh is also turning his once proud franchise into a bit of a punchline.
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
You really cant blame Homer though. Look at this lineup and tell me how this team shouldnt be a powerhouse. Just like last year, I question how much the players actually care. You can’t blame Homer if the team is getting out worked and out played every game. And our D and our goalies look fine. Every game we should have scored more then we did. Now I understand a lot of people will say “Well they’re a playoff team, as long as they make the playoffs we have a legitimate chance.” and I agree. If we make the playoffs, I would say were are one of the best teams. But do you really want to risk a Boosh save in a shout-out on game 82 every year to even make the playoffs? I mean, its pretty pathetic how bad this team looked last year, and its the same this year.
he managed to drive out one of the most beloved players in the organizations history
Agree with beloved, but like I said when we made the trade, can we really say that Gagne is really the same player he once was? I loved Gagne when he was here, and I would have liked to see him retire as a Flyer. But at $5 million, we would need a lot more then a 15 goal scorer at best anymore. Its the drawback of the cap era, but besides Hartnell, Gagne was the odd man out, and he was more willings then Hrats to waive his NMC.
But even without Gagne, This lineup should still dominate teams. Im not saying they should be 5-0, but I thinks we all agree that they have been out played in all 5 games. And besides some great goaltending from Bobs in game 1 and a lucky goal by Carter in game 3, this team may very well be 0-5. 1 goal against the Blues? Only 2 against the Lightning(sorry Kat, but after their top 6, the Lightning are still not a playoffs team yet.). Maybe I over-rated the players. Maybe Carter and Richards aren’t all-stars. Maybe Briere and Hartnell aren’t really that good. Maybe Giroux and JVR aren’t the next big things. But look down this lineup and tell me that its isn’t at least somewhere in the ballpark of what YOU want it to look like. At the end of the Day, Homer built a team that on paper should at least be 100 pts. by the end of the year and plays very well in the playoffs. They should score 5 goals every game and only give up about 2. But again, like ast year, I’m going to question the players before I blame Homer.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
The $5 million cap hit isn’t Gagne’s fault. There was a discussion on BSH before about Meszaros and how he doesn’t play up to his contract. There were some good points thrown in the discussion. That you can’t really judge player’s abilities and whether he’s satisfying enough by his contract.
Gagne was given the 5 year extension (with 5.25 million cap hit) after the season he scored 47 goals and collected 79 points. The first season of this contract he scored 41 goals (68 points). After coming back from his concussion season he scored 34 goals (74 points). What’s your “15 goal scorer at best” comment based on? His last season when he played only part of the season, netting 17 goals (40 points)? Or his age? Seriously, tell me, because I don’t get it. I’m not saying he’s a 50 or 40 goal scorer but he can easily score 25-30 goals. And please, avoid the “injury-prone” argument, because the healthy/injured factor refers to every single player.
He was more willings then Hrats to waive his NMC.
How do you know? Did they even ask Hartnell?
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
My point want that he didnt earn his contract or that he wasnt playing up to it. My point was that This Gagne isnt the same Gagne. He looks different on the ice now, he plays a whole new game then he did before. Its a shame cause hes too young to have to do this, but with all his injuries he has no choice. Hes still going to have some great moments in his career, especially playing with Vinny L and Stamkos and St. Louis and Downie. But hes also going to have his slow moments like what we saw last year. Hes become a player whos still not a liability, but hes not the same asset he once was.
And I dont know about Hartnell, but I do know they were willing to trade him the the Oilers at some point. I’d of rather traded Hartnell over Gagne. I was just making an assumption because i know he didnt want to waive his clause before.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
But at $5 million, we would need a lot more then a 15 goal scorer at best anymore.
That’s not saying he’s not playing up to it?
he plays a whole new game then he did before
Could you be more specific about it? I’ve been watching him for years and I’m not sure I get you completely.
hes too young to have to do this
Again, what exactly?
But hes also going to have his slow moments like what we saw last year.
And this doesn’t happen to everyone? (with few exceptions, like the top scorers of the league, which I never claimed Gagne was)
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Here is where the injury prone issue comes into play. Who do you ask to waive their NTC Hartnell who consistently plays 82 games or Gagne who is kind of an unknown in terms of production because of injuries. Factor in Hartnell is the closest thing we got to a net presence power forward. Homer went with Gagne. I disagree as you do.
But one guy was going to get moved. If Hamhuis signed or if Nabokov signed here they were going to cost us around 4 million of money from the forwards.
How bout Jeff Carter? Doesn’t have a NTC to break…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
He is a combination of Gagne and Hartnell plays 3/4 a season with 30 goals and is younger than both guys. Why trade him?
/sarcasm
Please don’t answer we don’t won’t go over all again that 5 games into the season.
haha, I really wasn’t looking to get into a Carter, or a Gagne, or a Shelley argument today.
I’d much rather move along to Matt Walker or Peter Laviolette, honestly.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
But you agree with me right? RIGHT? I know you do :P
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Certainly. :)
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I just hope that something gels soon with all the different combos lavy is using. Maybe he is just testing the team depth. With respect to walker…I guess we just have the best hip/groin rehab. Is it something in the philly water?
by srv1084 on Oct 18, 2010 2:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Discuss his strategy for deploying his players. At this point, I have severe disagreements with how he is utilizing his bench.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Care to elaborate? It doesn’t look good I’ll admit, but is that due to Lavvy not putting the people in the right situations? I know he talked about how he didn’t like the chances they were getting at ES, but I’d say the power play is just as much of an issue. There is absolutely no creativity, and the only time they tried something different against Pittsburgh, they scored.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
How he’s allocating ice time, who he’s pairing together, and how he’s matching his lines up. Let’s look just at last game against the Penguins:
- Coburn – 6:40 SH TOI (O`Donnell – 1:52; Carle 2:46; Meszaros 3:31).
Why not spread that time out? Carle wasn’t getting any PP time (1:07), so at the end of the game, Coburn had 23:10 total TOI while Carle only had 15:32. This isn’t even mentioning Pronger (7:21) and Timonen’s (5:46) PK time on ice.
- Nodl – 0:00 SH TOI (Betts – 8:00; Powe – 5:46; Richards – 5:05; Giroux – 4:25)
Really? There’s a reason you dress Andreas Nodl, and then you don’t even use him? My gosh is that a lot of time for Betts. But how about knocking Richards and Giroux down to 3 minutes, giving Nodl 3:30 of PK time? Is anybody going to complain that Richards’ ice time is being stolen by Nodl? If you want him to have more ice time, STOP TAKING PENALTIES.
- Fourth Line – all three got less than 5 minutes of even-strength ice time. Again, this is because the team is taking too many penalties, but that’s got to change.
- Richards/Carter’s rotating winger – Through four games, it was Carcillo. Then it was Nodl, but even then, Nodl spent 1:30 less time than Carter did with Richards. Nodl only spent 5:30 with Richards, so how are they supposed to mesh as a line? When Richards and Carter aren’t showing chemistry, why are you giving up on the third piece, maybe finding chemistry between him and one of Richie or Carter?
- Briere’s matchup – He was on the ice for 12.4 minutes of even strength play. He didn’t face anybody on the Penguins more than 6.1 minutes. Can Laviolette not find a way to get him out against a line they can destroy? That’s weak. At home, you should never get your desired matchup less than 50% of the time.
- Crosby – Of his 9.6 minutes of even strength time, Lavy (well, Berube) got Coburn or Timonen out on the ice 6.7 minutes of that. Not good, but better. Except Richards was only out for 5.4 of those 9.6 minutes. Not concerned about which forwards go up against one of the top 2 players in the world? Why not? Is it because they were too tired from being on the penalty kill? Revert to top.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Legitimate issues right there. I do hope that it was a one game problem due to penalties, because the line matching has been ok during the other games in my opinion.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Yeah, so do I. But those are the things I’d rather be talking about…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Not at all. It’s bench management. There’s no reason for Coburn to receive three times as much PK time as Sean O`Donnell when there’s so much of it to go around, especially since the team supposedly has 6 defensemen they can trust in all situations.
Second, Carter and Richards’ rotating winger is not affected by the PK, especially since none of those rotating plays on the PK (Carcillo, Nodl, JVR).
Third, matchups have nothing to do with the PK, but rather it’s Laviolette not putting his players on the ice in a position to succeed. And if you think the failure to match Richards and Carter up against Crosby is because Richards spent so much time killing penalties, then you ask yourself: Do you want Richards to spell Crosby 5-on-5 with Nodl doing his job on the PK, or do you want Briere facing Crosby at 5-on-5 while Richards rests from killing penalties?
None of those three (four from above) has anything to do with how much time the Flyers spent on the PK, but can be fixed with better bench management, including allocating PK time.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 19, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Only thing I can think of to debate was on point 2. We were trailing most of the game, so I could argue that he wanted Richards and Giroux out there more b/c of their potential offense from the PK (since it seemed that was the only way we were going to get a chance to score).
A) Gagne plays to the best that he can, But i dont see him being able to score more then 15 goals this year. His cap hit was too high for that production. Its not his fault, he was just the odd man out in the new era of the NHL.
B) Gagne always plays 100% on the ice. He plays with heart and hustle. But his skills have shifted towards a different role at this stage in his career.
C) Read above, now think of every player whos lasted a long time in the NHL. Lots of the older players who dont have the same skill-set they once did, so they are able to change their game to stay competitive in the NHl, even though they are no longer scorers. Most players do this at like 35 years old and only last about two or three more seasons. Gagne did this last ear at what, 30 years old right? I mean thats its a shame that he has to do this while hes still in his prime.
D) Hey, I think every one on the Flyers has slow moments, especially last year. But Gagne was MIA for longer stretches then anyone.
Im not saying that I’m happy hes gone, Gagne will always go down as one of my all time favorite Flyers, ever. I’ve owned 3 of his jerseys, because when it came down to it, I liked Gagne better then anyone else on the team at those times. But again, I agree with the trading of gagne because I dont think he brings enough to the table anymore for this team we have right now. Do I think Hes better then walker and a 4th, yes, but Yazerman is smart, and knows that his $5 mil isnt worth the player, so Gagne’s value goes down. I dont really think we would have gotten a better deal then what we did.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
A) First you said your point wasn’t that that he wasnt playing up to his contract. Now you’re saying that his production (15 goals which YOU are predicting) is not enough for his cap hit.
B) If you’re pointing to the fact that he’s defensive responsible, let me tell you that he’s always been.
C) Read above. I don’t see as much of a change in his game as you do.
D) You’re pointing out something I asked you not to do. His injuries. And it’s completely out of the point. When we speak about “slow moments” I assume it’s a lack of production while the player IS playing, non?
I’m not doubting your feelings (or whatever you want to call it) about Gagne. I’m only questioning your arguments.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
First you said your point wasn’t that that he wasnt playing up to his contract. Now you’re saying that his production (15 goals which YOU are predicting) is not enough for his cap hit.
I said that Gagne plays to the best of his abilities, But his abilities have declined enough to where he cant produce like a $5mil player.
If you’re pointing to the fact that he’s defensive responsible, let me tell you that he’s always been.
No, Im not pointing out his defensive responsibilities. But I will say that Gagne was an average defensive player early in his career, but since say 2004 he has become a great defensive forward. And I do see change in his play. Hes more of a sit back by the net for a scoring chance but also enough to stop a rush the other way player now, where before he used to be more of backchecker and puck carrier. Not to say that hes playing a style for better or worse, but Gagne has become a player who cant take the hits like he used to. So he has to adjust his game so he can still be as productive as possible. Thats a great thing to see a player do.
You’re pointing out something I asked you not to do. His injuries. And it’s completely out of the point. When we speak about "slow moments" I assume it’s a lack of production while the player IS playing, non?
You cant just say that we shouldnt take into consideration his injury risk, because he has a huge injury risk. One more concussion and his career may be over. He has to play the way he plays, not just for his hockey career, but for his own sake. When Gagne retires and hes long gone from he game and you look back on his career, your always gonna have the question of “What if?” From the age of about 28, Gagne was no longer in his prime. I know its not something you want to talk about, but Injuries are a huge part of his career now, its something you cant ignore when someone like Homer has to evaluate a player worth. Briere is the same way, Gaborik from NY is the same way. Thats why these players are so tricky and risky when people sign them or trade them.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
Just to use examples for injuries and how they effect players and GM’s:
If Lindros doesnt get hurt, he goes down as one of the greatest players ever.
If Hamilton(Baseball) doesnt become a drug addict and heavy drinker, he would be possibly one of the best players ever.
If Torres(soccer) doesnt always get hurt, hes would possibly be one of the best pure goal scorers ever. All three are superstars, but every owner in the world would think twice about having on their team. You have too look at what the potential injury risk is for everyone. and Gagne’s is higher then most other players.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
his abilities have declined enough to where he cant produce like a $5mil player
But this is only what YOU think. As I said, this is only based on the prediction YOU made.
cant take the hits like he used to
I just don’t think this is completely true. Granted, he might not throw his body as much as he used to but I don’t agree with a statement that he can’t take a hit. He can. As you can see here, here and here. All pictures are from last season so it’s not like I was showing you something old. He’s not a puck carrier anymore? Really? I don’t agree.
Yes, players adjust their game. They adjust it not only to their abilities though. The coaching system and the way your teammates play come into the picture.
And another point, what does his checking ability has to do with his scoring? I mean, you don’t need to throw one hit per shift to be a great scorer, do you?
I don’t completely disagree with you on the injury risk. Yes, there is always an injury risk, especially in hockey. But frankly, I’m sick of the opinion that Gagne’s risk is higher than others. Concussion and post-concussion syndrome are very serious, very. But this could happen to anyone. Any player can go out there, got checked and boom, he’s done. Even without prior concussion record. Yeah, a concussion may leave some tracks on you thus enlarging the risk a bit, but people always claim that Gagne had three concussions, which is not true either. He had one, which got aggravated by the upcoming blows he received later into the season. Plus, Gagne’s doctor diagnosed the Bouwmeester and Staal hits as more whiplash than concussions. So this “Gagne gets checked and he’s done” rhetoric is not as justified as most people think.
But the reason why I wanted to avoid this “injury-prone” topic was not because I’d like to ignore it. Initially, I didn’t want to hear it as an answer to my question Why do you think he’s a 15 goal scorer at best?
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
I’ll counter that they built a lineup with 5 players who have to play center to be successful. They built it to play with three scoring lines, but only 8 scoring forwards. They built it with knowledge that two players were severely injured, but didn’t replace them.
They built holes in the lineup, which we are all now complaining about. Carter can’t play with Richards, but that’s how the organization built it. Carcillo can’t play with Richards and Carter, but that’s how the team was built. They built it with 8 defenseman, paying a guy $1.7 million to not play. They built it knowing Laperriere was going to be out for awhile, but signed Shelley anyway. They signed Leighton despite his injury, and are now relying on a rookie goalie to be their savior.
Question the players? Certainly. Question the positions they were put in by the organization? Definitely.
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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Still haven’t tried moving Giroux to the wing.
I don’t see how Carter and Richards production at 3 pts each in 5 games says they can’t play together. I am sure that puts them right on pace for the VOKUTA predictions.
They built it with knowledge that two players were severely injured, but didn’t replace them.
Assumption that can not be proven.
Walker is a backup and come playoff time if he is not needed that money will be used elsewhere to gets us a winger. Or they will give Guerin a call once the give up on the Carcillo, Nodl with Richards and Carter experiment.
5 games is not enough to say
Carter can’t play with Richards
They played together in the playoffs and were just as ineffective. We had this conversation in the summer.
As far as 3 points in 5 games, how about the fact that they have each been on the ice for 2 Flyers goals and 4 opposition goals? Or just watching them fail together?
As far as “assumption that cannot be proven”, Holmgren said “we didn’t know much” when they signed Leighton. So they knew something. With Laperriere, they also knew he still had a spot on his brain when he played in the Finals, so they knew he was injured, they just didn’t know how severely. So, that’s a fairly safe assumption.
You’re paying $1.7 million for a “backup” who not only won’t be used in the regular season, he won’t be used in the playoffs. That’s a terrible, terrible use of money.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I want to see Nodl-Richards-Giroux they have good chemistry on the PK. JVR-Carter-Zherdev would be the other line. Between JVR-Giroux-Zherdev nobody is looking to shoot. But I think Carcillo has more do with the lack of production and the fact they were matching up against Crosby in two of those 5 games. I am not ready to call it quits on that line. Give them a real winger before you write it off.
You make excellent points here, but you’re willing to separate Richards and Carter, then say that we should give them more time.
And the Flyers gave them [Richards and Carter] a real winger last year. I’d rather not say his name again, but you know who I’m talking about.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
All of that before I trade Carter. Give him more time to at least past game 10 if not move him back to Center and try Giroux with Richie they should be on the same TOI schedule anyway both playing PK together. Then consider trading Carter if that fails.
But that’s the thing: Carter’s game is suited to the wing. Giroux’s is suited to the middle. If Carter is unwilling to score his goals from the wing, that’s on him. Don’t mess with Giroux just because Carter can’t/won’t transition.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 19, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
As in the last five times the Flyers lost in the Cup finals or the ECF they have incorrectly determined that the team was in a good position when in fact most of these accomplishments were born out of circumstance and overachieving. I asked this question shortly after the finals were over and you are 100% correct in that this team is not better then last year and last year is another exception not the rule. This is going to be a roller coaster year of this team looking dominating after looking completely inept. In the end if they make the playoffs it will be in one of the last 3 spots. Then who knows?
Just Call Me "M"!
Although at least in 97 they had a superstar dominating the league to convince them that they were going to be able to make it again. And in 2004 I feel the Flyers could have won the cup, and if 04/05 wasn’t locked out they could’ve made a very big run again. If the Olympics never happened in 05/06 and Forsberg never got injured, then that could have been the year too.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 19, 2010 4:54 AM EDT up reply actions
What the hell are you doing up at 4:54 am? You state a lot of could of would of should of but in reality the Flyers have been built to win with guts and overachieving. In 97, the only real shot, because they got to the final, they failed to surround that superstar with the kind of talent it required. I know we have fond feeling for those teams but in reality they were a three man team with no goaltending. I know Terry Murray said they choked but if you look back and compare the rosters they had absolutely no chance of winning that cup that year whatsoever. 04 they couldn’t get past the lightning, that is not getting close.
Just Call Me "M"!
In ’04, they did have a a ton of injuries, especially on defense. Was the defense already bad? Yeah, but they had a chance.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 19, 2010 8:32 AM EDT up reply actions
That is just it. I have been watching for a long time and thought as a lot of people did, but looking back talent wins cups, heart and guts only gets you so far and if you get lucky you might steal one, but really they just didn’t have the overall talent. People thought the 70’s were lucky wins but looking back they truly were one of the most talent groups of players in this league’s expansion era. Even the king goon was a scorer in the minors and had the ability to score 20 goals, which a couple million dollar players these days aren’t even capable of doing.
Just Call Me "M"!
The 03-04 team had talent, though: Primeau, Zhamnov, Roenick, Handzus, Kapanen, Gagne, Amonte, Recchi, and LeClair up front (that’s a pretty good top-9) with Johnsson, Pitkanen, Markov, Malakhov, Timander, and Ragnarsson in back. Not exactly world beaters, but that’s a solid top-pair, a solid second-pair, and an above-average third pair.
With Esche in goal, that team had plenty of talent. When Dennis Seidenberg is your 7th d-man with Patrick Sharp only playing 12 games, you have depth.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 19, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
(sentimental sigh)
Oh the times when I rooted for the Flyers only because of one particular guy :P
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
OT
I watched “Miracle” last night for class and Lindbergh was in goal for Sweden in the 1980 Olympics.
Since Lindbergh was drafted by the Flyers in 79, wasn’t he considered pro? Or because he didn’t play in the AHL till the fall of 80, he was still an amateur player and could play in the Olympics?
Thanks!
I think it was the latter. Amateurs played in the Olympics up through 1994. But a good number of those amateurs had been drafted by NHL clubs, especially later on. Peter Forsberg scored the gold-medal game-winner for Sweden in 1994 and he was drafted by the Flyers in 1991. Eric Lindros, drafted by the Nordiques in 1991, played on the 1992 Canadian Olympic team. The 1992 US team had several players who were property of NHL clubs as well, including Ted Drury, Marty McInnis, and Ray LeBlanc. And wasn’t Mike Ramsey on the Miracle team?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I think only the NHL was counted. IIRC, that was the compromise agreed upon, that the “no professionals” rule would apply only to the highest professional league in countries with multiple leagues, to keep from unduly penalizing nations with extensive “semi-pro” systems.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Thanks for the answer!
Yes, Mike Ramsey was on the Miracle team. In a way, I sometimes wish that amateur players still played in the Olympics and give them the opportunity to play at that level.
Shopped.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Oct 18, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Well he’s wearing an orange t-shirt and has a hockey-related sign, I really doubt he’d do that. He’s better than that. Besides the lighting and resolution are completely different than the rest of the pic.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Oct 18, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s also not scaled properly to match the size of the people around him. And the edges, the edges! Sorry, it’s not even a good photoshop job…
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Totally agree.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Oct 19, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Definitely.
Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Oct 19, 2010 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions
It is five games into the season, we have people coming off injuries that aren’t themselves yet (Pronger, Leino), and we haven’t dug ourselves any kind of hole yet.
Breathe.
Peter will drill things into this team during these days off and they’ll continue to get better. Penalties and powerplay efficiency are correctable flaws.
Man, you guys are really putting me into Five-games-in-calm-the-fuck-down mode.
I don’t even like being in that mode.
Me neither.
I love it here and everything. I really do. If they didn’t close, I’d never leave.
I played guitar at my friend’s wedding on Saturday and missed the game entirely. So yesterday, I came here with baited breath. It wasn’t too bad, thankfully.
But yes. We’re five games in. Let’s dump the Negadelphia stuff unless it becomes necessary, m’mkay?
That said, I will relate a funny Negadelphia story from the wedding: My friend and his wife are both big Phillies fans. When the Phillies lost, my friend’s wife said, “They wouldn’t have lost if we were watching! Oh wait, that’s the negative Phillies fan in me.”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
4 on Zero??!?!?!??
Explain how this happened ??
"Success is not the result of spontaneous combustion. You must first set yourself on fire." --Fred Shero--
haha, I wish I could.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll like this a lot more if Lavy starts using him when he dresses him.
Is this the right room for an argument?
Exactly.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
How much practice time did Nodl with Richards and Carter before the Pens game. Did that have anything to do with Nodl limited action?
But yes it that game Richards shouldn’t have killed 5 minutes of penalties, Lavy should have used Nodl. I think Richards comments and my comments on this site will fix that for next game. Given this post which I am surprised wasn’t brought up in the Fly-By.
If Carcillo gets benched and Nodl starts I am crediting this post. And then we would all know that more important people in the Flyers organization, besides Mike Testwuide, read this site.
Chris, I am loving the use of correct grammar, punctuation and capitalization! Keep it up! haha
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Oct 18, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha, for the record I was being serious, not trying to be a jackass.
I know people complain about your unique style of writing so I just thought I would commend you for the change :)
I am pretty much useless on Twitter anyway so I’d actually recommend no one follow me anyway lol.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Oct 18, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont :( just cause i really really like carcillo. Im biased in my opinion. And honestly, when Noodles played Saturday i didn’t notice him. He didn’t really DO anything
Let's do it again
by Cillo stache on Oct 18, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
The Flyers Real Problem So far
You can blame holmgren all you want, but the problem is the players. And the biggest finger to point is at the captain. He showed up out of shape. He consistantly makes low percentage plays in the offensive zone. He actually put himself in the same catagory of player as Cindy Crosby and wined about the refs last game. It will be no time before he runs the coach out of town for being too demading. He’s a great player with a bad attitude. And sadly, i think it rubs off on some of his buddys on the team.
I dont know how you think he showed up out of shape. Or that he makes low percentage plays. My problem with Richards is that you dont know who your going to get. You either get a guy who looks hungry, and looks like hes willing to do whatever to win. Or you get a guy whos just skates with the flow, isnt looking for plays, and gets pushed around.
I do agree though that Richards play rubs off on the guys. When Richards is good, the teams good. When Richards is bad, the teams bad.
Flyers 10-11 season slogan: "Remember Emery?"
I actually agree with this.
See, we don’t hate each other!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
you dont know who your going to get. You either get a guy who looks hungry, and looks like hes willing to do whatever to win. Or you get a guy whos just skates with the flow, isnt looking for plays, and gets pushed around.
So he’s the Flyers? Yeah, that seems about right.
Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.
by KreiderDesigns on Oct 18, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Truth. If we can get his ass motivated, the team will follow. This seems to happen every year, and it takes some bad losses to get the players fired up. Once they get that chip-on-our-shoulder attitude though, we’re nigh unstoppable. The problem is getting them there without having to wreck our spot in the standings and fire people first.
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
Hows about bribing him with shots and hartnells wife? That’l work! i know it will!
Let's do it again
by Cillo stache on Oct 18, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Same category as Crosby? Do you mean when he said something along the lines of he’ll fight Cooke when Crosby fights Carcillo? He’s looking at it from a value standpoint. He plays even, PK and PP…does cooke? So why should he take himself off the ice for 5 mins by fighting Cooke. He just used Crosby – Carbomb as his example.
Not actually true. Carcillo only plays 5 on 5, Cooke is one of the Pens best PKers, so really it’s not the same if you want to be technical about it. Plus Richards, as much as I like him, isn’t going to win the Richard trophy anytime soon.
Is this the right room for an argument?
But they have the SAME name!
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by Travis Hughes on Oct 18, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on we all know any time the Pens go on the PK it quickly gets negated by another penalty the other way. Allowing us to marvel at Crosby Malkin playing 4 on 4 hockey. It is post lockout hockey at its purest, Crosby with all that space to dazzled, dangle and dive to draw the 4 on 3 PP for the Pens.
I think this is all well covered by NHL rule 87.66.
Richards would gladly fight Crosby but we know Cindy won’t even think about that.
Heres some proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xer26VfOyMo
Tim McManus is awesome. Seriously. The Phantoms would be completely irrelevant if it wasn’t for him. What fantastic work he does.
by rmg4519 on Oct 18, 2010 1:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed entirely.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Oct 18, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec’d for utter truth. Dude is awesome.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Oct 18, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Clarke knows
I loved this line fron the Clarke interview:
“I just felt Lemieux whined too much about the rules of the game. He’d get 200 points a year and he was complaining. That bothered me.”
Sounds like Crysby learned from the best.
From Parts Unknown...
Currently behind enemy lines, plotting to blow up an Igloo.
You else is very glad to see this? I know I am. For me, this is very encouraging. This is why I don’t think the Flyers will be quite as badly plagued by the inconsistent and lackluster hockey we became so frustrated with last season. Lavy still has no qualms about making the reigning Eastern Conference Champs do wind sprints.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Oct 18, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I know I’m happy. Whatever a bag skate actually means, I know it’s something to do with hard work
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Mourning Gagne forever.
Its basically the same as suicide sprints done in basketball and soccer practices.
The best example of a bag skate that I can think of would be in the movie Miracle where Herb Brooks forces the team to do this, as referenced by doubleh below.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Oct 18, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, even though I think Lavy has been part of the problem thus far in some ways. I always like a coach going, “oh you shit the bed that game huh… guess what you get to do now, skate until you puke.”
Is this the right room for an argument?
He juggles the lines a bit much and too quickly for my taste as well.
Bag Skate. I know you saw this.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Hate on me all you want, but this has to be said. Ganges gone. Theres nothing we can do about it. Stop arguing about it. He was then and this is now. The trades are over, we have who we have (coughsadlymessyzaroscoughcoughwalkercough) so lets move on shall we?
If you read that and didn’t want to bludgeon me with a hockey stick or skate, thank you
Let's do it again
His name is Gagne. And if you mean the discussion I’ve been having with JpH89… well, if you actually read it you would know it’s not about the trade as much as it is about Gagne himself. It started off because someone mentioned the trade, yes, but it’s not solely about it. So relax.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Im all already relaxed (eating brownie batter is very soothing) hahaha but i meant in general. Not towards that. It is pretty much mentioned about every other thread, and I don’t quite comprehend why. I understand he was a great player and gave allot to the team, but its time to move on.
Let's do it again
by Cillo stache on Oct 18, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Well some things go deep. For some (me included) Gagne means everything, he was the one they thought of when the Flyers were mentioned. We all agreed it’s time to move on… but it’s not always easy thing to do. As much as you can’t comprehend why we still linger on it, I don’t understand why you’re so whatever about it. Live and let live ;)
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch! ... #1 mission? Kill Holmgren.
Caption
Is Pronger doing a farmer blow there?
“I’ll show you what I think of this game.”
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.
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- Coyotes vs. the road warriors: Can Phoenix end LA Kings’ road domination?
- Coyotes, Kings Game 5 preview; Claude Giroux has fun; PK Subban on the ladies (Puck Headlines)
- Stanley Cup Final schedule released; Game 1 on May 30, Game 7 would be June 13
Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- Oilers president Lowe says vacant coaching job not discussed with Sutter
- Eastern Conference champ to host Game 1 of Stanley Cup final on May 30
- Rangers, Devils brush away rhetoric, prepare for crucial Game 5 in East finals
- Rangers, Devils all even heading into key Game 5
- 2012 Stanley Cup Final to start Wednesday, May 30th
