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Around SBN: Ray Allen Fighting Age, Injury And His New Role

Friday Morning Fly By: Well, That was Nice.

Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...

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(throws hands up and puts a small smile on my face.)
“Zac Rinaldo, your one crazy dude.”

Samesis

http://orangecrunch.blogspot.com/

by JpH89 on Nov 12, 2010 10:44 AM EST reply actions  

Looking at the Flyers stick problem, as they lead the league in stick infractions.

Can’t wait to see Cillo stache’s comment on that one… :-p

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!

by hintzy64 on Nov 12, 2010 10:49 AM EST reply actions  

I don’t think I have anything for that one yet, actually. Give me time

Let's do it again

by Cillo stache on Nov 12, 2010 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Very sobering, but very great article from Flyers Faithful on Pelle. Having attended the University of Maryland, Pelle’s story also makes me think of Len Bias, another star athlete whose life was cut short by a tragic, and illegal, mistake. While I’m not old enough to remember either of those incidents when they actually happened, both stories still resound very deeply within me. They’re important lessons for all to learn.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!

by hintzy64 on Nov 12, 2010 11:08 AM EST reply actions  

hopefully not first hand

by tmurder on Nov 12, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Right.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!

by hintzy64 on Nov 12, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep and the lesson I think HAS been learned. People now and should know better. Pelle wasn’t the first and he won’t be the last, although we all know we hope it never happens again. Anyone who has lost a family member to a drunk driver would probably protest but that doesn’t change anything. Pelle was a great goaltender..if you’re waiting for only perfect people to retire numbers for, take them all down!

God Bless The Flyers

by skootrboi on Nov 12, 2010 12:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Pelle only played 157 regular season games with the Flyers over 5 seasons (two of which he only played 8 games each). He just didn’t play long enough, regardlessof how you feel about the drunk driving. His number has been basically retired but not been put in the rafters. And I know Ashbee on played in 270 regular season games for the Flyers over 4 seasons, but his memory has helped raise a lot of money for a good cause, so I view that as a special circumstance.

Also, there is a huge difference between perfect people and someone driving under the influence crashing by a school and injuring two other people.

Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Nov 12, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I agree with that. Nobody should wear his #, but I don’t think he should b “officially” retired.

Samesis

http://orangecrunch.blogspot.com/

by JpH89 on Nov 12, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

If Vs. is going to have a hockey show on every night, they should have a once a week DGB spot

by Prometheus74 on Nov 12, 2010 11:22 AM EST reply actions  

Hat Tricks where one of the goals is on an empty net are not as cool as 3 goals against a real live goalie in the net. Yeah, I’m lookin’ at you, Semin.

Sarauj, Latvija!

by LVHokejs on Nov 12, 2010 11:22 AM EST reply actions  

He also had 2 assists but I get your point.

"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."

by boknows71 on Nov 12, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I could probably get two assists if I was on a line with Ovechkin and Backstrom

by youaretheman26 on Nov 12, 2010 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I want to make a joke involving the words “Carter”, “assist” and “frat party”, but my brain is too fried to piece it together at the moment. Maybe later.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!

by hintzy64 on Nov 12, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Carter made an assist when coach told him to be wingman for Richie at a frat party?

Hexwall.

by Philly4Cup on Nov 12, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

That’ll do, stick tap for that.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!

by hintzy64 on Nov 13, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I’ll allow it, he’s on my fantasy team.

Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.

by KreiderDesigns on Nov 12, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s my anti-Caps bias coming out. As a DC native, I’m subjected to alot of Caps swagger. Is it just me or is the upcoming schedule for the Caps looking less challenging (except for a certain game on the 20th). Hopefully, they’ll be overconfident and blow a couple of those games in the next few weeks.

Sarauj, Latvija!

by LVHokejs on Nov 12, 2010 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Their goaltending will start to falter IMO.

Neuvirth’D

"Call me dumb, call me stupid, whatever. I block shots."

by boknows71 on Nov 12, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Neuvirth I like, actually. He seems to have good movement in the pipes(like Bobs).

Varly I think is over-rated though.

Samesis

http://orangecrunch.blogspot.com/

by JpH89 on Nov 12, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Please tell me you have all seen this video already. It is hilarious that so few players on the Flyers can actually grow a real mustache. Flyers terrible mustaches.

"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."

Flyers Television Play-by-Play Man: Jim Jackson

by Psy09 on Nov 12, 2010 11:47 AM EST reply actions  

Does Claude say the f word?

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Hahaha, at first I thought the same thing but he actually says funny. Good catch though, I thought I might have needed to add a NSFW tag with it.

"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."

Flyers Television Play-by-Play Man: Jim Jackson

by Psy09 on Nov 12, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ll be sporting mine on Saturday, I expect you to be doing the same Detweiler.

Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Nov 12, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Even though I’m not growing one, I could easily shave into a pretty nice one.

But no, I will not be sporting a mustache.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s pretty much all I am doing…I figure I already look ridiculous, how much worse could it get.

Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Nov 12, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think many guys can grow good mustaches. Claude’s cracks me up because it’s thick but so ginger.

Richards and Carcillo look like porn stars.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Nov 12, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I love Carcillos and Giroux. Workin it.

Let's do it again

by Cillo stache on Nov 12, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I think giroux cheated by growing a beard fist and shaving everything else. Blair Betts’ stache is priceless.

Hexwall.

by Philly4Cup on Nov 12, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I can’t look away.

by ohnickels on Nov 12, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Neither can I. It’s strangely hypnotic.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!

by hintzy64 on Nov 12, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I literally stared at this for 3 straight minutes, it might have been longer but the guy I share an office with came back and asked what the hell I was doing…totally threw off the trance I was in.

"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard

by EREX21 on Nov 12, 2010 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Who all was in the BSH “contest”? Mine is coming in terribly as per usual.

Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.

by KreiderDesigns on Nov 12, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Mines going great!! Hahahh I kid. I don’t have one, but I am letting my hair get as big as she wants, its right around jew-fro now

Let's do it again

by Cillo stache on Nov 12, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Mines pretty full-on-rapist right now. I trimmed the edges too far, and it just looks awes-ful.

Mourning Gagne forever.

by ToddtheFox on Nov 12, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

mine is kicking ass, as usual

by hartmanzord on Nov 12, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Those really are lame mustaches – they should have waited a week and then filmed them. The background music for the clip was the band, Sparks. My brother and I used to listen to Sparks in the 70s. People thought we were nuts because they were so different than anything else at the time – brings back memories!

Sarauj, Latvija!

by LVHokejs on Nov 12, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Betts has that child molester look going on right now. whats the saying, not every everyone who has a mustache is a child molester but every child molester has a mustache.

by KyDi on Nov 12, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

With a Mustache you either look like a State Trooper, A Porn Star or a Child Molester. That would be fun game to play.

Carcillo – Molester
Pronger – Trooper
Betts – Molester
Carle – Porn Star
Carter – Trooper
Richards – Trooper
Giroux – Porn Star
Hartnell – Porn Star

by chrislanci on Nov 12, 2010 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL!
Bobrovsky?
Boucher?
Laviolette?

by orangeandblack20 on Nov 12, 2010 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

can Russians grow facial hair?

Samesis

http://orangecrunch.blogspot.com/

by JpH89 on Nov 12, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Rasputin wasn’t challenged in the facial hair dept.

Sarauj, Latvija!

by LVHokejs on Nov 12, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I want that beard, like yesterday.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Nov 12, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t sere their pictures. I am going from what I saw in the video and threw O’Donnell out because he was cheater with the whole beard thing he was rockin.

by chrislanci on Nov 12, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Uhhohhh.

Let's do it again

by Cillo stache on Nov 12, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Carcillo is def porn star.
The others I think are reasonable.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!

by hintzy64 on Nov 13, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Soooo I just watched that. I have some things to point out:
-Dan Carcillo has the facial hair follicals of a 12 yearold. Its sad.
-JvR still looks about 14
-I want to lock myself in a closet after seeing Richards stache
-I wana see how many times Richards gets pulled over with the stache. No way he is allowed near an elementary school with that.
-Matt Carle has the cutest attempt at a moustache, he should get some markers or an eyebrow pencil and draw it in
-Even Giroux’s face folicles has more talent than everyone. Damn overacheiver. But I love it.
-I have taped a paper moustache on my face (I’ve been home alone for 3 days, I’m getting creative) Its nice.
-Jeff Carter need to shave that off his face. Right now.
-Hartnells is nice
-I did not know Pronger could grow a stache
-Betts is funny and horrendus
-Canadians of different regions often have great difficulty growing stches, lay off Carcillos!!
-Powes was better week one, I don’t know what happened
-Carles’ close up looks like he only has 10 hairs
-I have horrendus spelling and grammar
-Shelly and O’donnel don’t get a write-up on this.

Let's do it again

by Cillo stache on Nov 12, 2010 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

JVR seems to have a good attitude about things. I hope he maintains this attitude, even if he gets sent down to Adirondack.

by memphisbrando on Nov 12, 2010 11:56 AM EST reply actions  

Just stumbled upon this article, and it's fantastic.

Looking at what teams have a “true number 1 center” and whether you need one to be successful. Hint: It certainly helps, and the Flyers have 3: [Pension Plan Puppets]

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 12:17 PM EST reply actions  

That means that the Flyers. Are going to win. The Stanley Cup.

/genehart

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Nov 12, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Um. Not quite.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

will Giroux be there this time next year though?

Samesis

http://orangecrunch.blogspot.com/

by JpH89 on Nov 12, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

No, because he has yet to reach 0.95 points once, let alone more than once, in the last four years (the first criteria) and he has not yet hit 65 points, let alone “consistent 65+ point player”.

So he’s at least two years away.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m glad we have a veteran presence on our team with Mike Richards. Those 1007 seasons under his belt really bring some good leadership.

by craigg747 on Nov 12, 2010 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow. Thank you for this.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah Mike. This is very well written and a very big eye opener. Thank you.

"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."

Flyers Television Play-by-Play Man: Jim Jackson

by Psy09 on Nov 12, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec’d

Formerly known as JFein

by Justin F. on Nov 12, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Great post

by srv1084 on Nov 12, 2010 2:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Nice post..and I don’t feel called out. A lot to think about for sure..thanks.

God Bless The Flyers

by skootrboi on Nov 12, 2010 4:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Thank you. Good job for you, keep going. None of this has effected me too personally yet, but would rather have it not. I’m choosing to step back and look at how others have done and what has happened before I do anything. I have plenty of time to screw up, I don’t want to start early. I’ve seen people go down the wrong path, but have seen very few come back. One of them is a person very close to me, so I guess this does resign in me. I’m staying straight and doin what only I can do, and not going to let myself do anything too regretful. Thank you a lot for this post

Let's do it again

by Cillo stache on Nov 12, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Great, just a great post.

#1 Flyers Fan in New York

Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.

by Lindbergh 31 on Nov 12, 2010 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks everyone.

My point in writing that was not to draw attention to myself or pat myself on the back, for what it’s worth. I just wanted to highlight how complex and misunderstood addiction is. My insertion into the story was solely to add credence to what I was saying. I hope I didn’t come across as Mr. (Formerly) High-and-Mighty, because that wasn’t my intent.

Thanks again.

On another note, let’s go Flyers! I’m going to eat at the Green Rock Tavern tomorrow night after my studio session. Last time I was there when the Flyers played the Panthers:

  • David Booth got knocked the f*** out;
  • JVR scored his first NHL goal; and
  • The Flyers won 5-1.

Hopefully, the Flyers win by a similar score, and JVR scores if he makes the lineup. I wish no harm to David Booth.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Nov 12, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

i remember...

the shocking news the day after the crash and then the aftermath and the effect it and on the team… it was a very sad and painful time for flyers fans and it took years to heal…to change the subject slightly, i am very disappointed in the development of JVR as a player… sad to say i don’t see the point in even sending him to the phantoms… i know its may sound harsh but at this point he’s a giant bust… he just dosen’t have the talent and drive to succeed in the nhl as a power forward… too bad they blew such a high draft choice on him… better admit the mistake and get him as far away from the team as possible!!!!

by Elmo the faithful fan on Nov 12, 2010 2:07 PM EST reply actions  

Really? You can make all these conclusions after 90 something games in the NHL? You can say, with authority, that JVR is an absolute bust?

He’s still only 21 years old. Obviously he’s been playing like crap so far this year, but it’s still possible for him to develop. To call him a bust is severely jumping the gun.

by Phalange on Nov 12, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I see JVR’s draft as the poor man’s #1 and #2 from 2005 draft class (Corsby, and Ryan). Ryan came from Major Juniors, which, I would argue, better prepares you for the NHL, and Ryan still required some AHL seasoning before he came up to the NHL permanently. Ryan spent 2 years in Juniors after he was drafted, the spend the equivalent of 1 year in the AHL. After JVR was drafted, he spent two years at UNH, and had a 7 game stint in the AHL. The kid still needs some time, especially before anyone calls him a bust.

Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Nov 12, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Too late to send him to the AHL now, so what do you do with him?

by edbro on Nov 12, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know, and that is the dilemma. I agree you can’t send him there now, but I think you have to just play him. he isn’t going to improve by sitting out, and with so much invested in the kid, you have to start playing him and hope he improves.

This was more to just say JVR can’t be considered a bust yet.

Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Nov 12, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I said this earlier in the season as I believed he was somewhere in middle limbo. However, I now believe It might not be too late for his career. Send him down until the playoffs start and see if he has gotten his confidence and excels at the AHL level. He might be able to take Shelley’s spot for the playoffs. But as for him playing on this team he just isn’t ready to compete with a team that is now taking off like a rocket. If this were a young and learning group he might be able to go through the ups and downs with a group of up and comers.

Just Call Me "M"!

by MJDII on Nov 12, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he will have to pass waivers. So you’ll lose him if you try sending him down.

Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.

by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 12, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions  

JVR? no, not yet.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 6:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahh OK, in that case I wouldn’t mind sending him down. I thought it was 60 games in the NHL and then you have to pass waivers.

Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.

by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 12, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I went back and checked. I thought that at first too.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

He could replace Powe of the Carter-Giroux line. But the way they are playing I am not going to touch that line even though Powe isn’t putting up points either.

by chrislanci on Nov 12, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

For goodness sakes the kid is younger than Bobrovsky. Give him some time. Sure he has played like crap thus far in the season, but he has shown flashes of brilliance over the course of the 90 something games he has played in, including almost single-handedly carrying the team in the first period of Game 7 against the Bruins. One month of sucking at the age of 21 years old does not a bust make.

Formerly known as JFein

by Justin F. on Nov 12, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Completely agree. Very few sophmores don’t go through slumps. Just from watching him it seems to me he is trying to play like others on the team and get way too fancy which is understandable when in a slump. He just needs to get back to playing his game.

by srv1084 on Nov 12, 2010 2:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Agreed but 1st he needs to identify his game.

by chrislanci on Nov 12, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

100% agreed, we’ve seen the talent and potential that he has, it just needs time to develop. We can’t really decide if he was a bust until his playing career is over, and maybe not even then!

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!

by hintzy64 on Nov 12, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I don’t think anyone knows what his game is gonna be like over the long run and he is so young. I think this benching is a good plan but I have a feeling he’ll have a sleeper role in this season.

God Bless The Flyers

by skootrboi on Nov 12, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

FYI it took John LeClair 3 seasons to become a premier goal scorer. Tim Kerr roughly the same amount of time. It took Mike Knuble close to 5 to pot 20-30 consistently. Search the stats for many “power forwards” and you’ll see the same pattern.

It has to be much tougher to be an effective power forward, so don’t go running off and labeling JVR a bust just yet.

by Phalange on Nov 12, 2010 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

To add to my Ryan point, I think Bobby developed very fast for a power forward.

Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Nov 12, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s not a matter of just time. His hockey maturity and general pro hockey IQ is behind what some of the players you mentioned where when they started. The only exception maybe LeClair but lets face it he “became a premier goal scorer” playing next to one of the best players of that entire era. When three out of five players are constantly paying sole attention to one player it opens a ton of space and time. He had the skills to finish but the curve was skewed.

Just Call Me "M"!

by MJDII on Nov 12, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

JVR has the skill. He can skate and pass and is a great size and hands. He just has to find a role and style to make him effective against NHL competition. Bright side is if he doesn’t break out he will remain cheap on the cap when his entry level deal is done. He did put up almost 35 pts last year plus 6 in the playoffs so he certainly belongs in the league.

by chrislanci on Nov 12, 2010 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea, but given enough time, he should be able to develop that hockey maturity and hockey IQ. I’m guessing you think he’d be able to do that at the AHL level?

by Phalange on Nov 12, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think you have any other option. I didn’t believe this earlier this season and I thought he should have been in the AHL all last year. He has to get back to basics playing a ton hockey.

Just Call Me "M"!

by MJDII on Nov 12, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Let’s throw him in a Delorean and send him back to next year, that probably would’ve been the best scenario.

One could make the case that spending the whole season in the NHL should’ve helped him develop his hockey sense and commitment better, but that didn’t seem to be the case.

by Phalange on Nov 12, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, I saw that you dropped a well-placed “No Jagr?” comment on Puck Daddy. Well played good sir.

by Phalange on Nov 12, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

You also have to take into account the talent level of this team. Its gonna be tough to break into the roster.

by srv1084 on Nov 12, 2010 2:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

FY everybody, I updated the update on the BSH Pick-Up game thread.

Flyers Fans: We've survived Lock-outs, Lindros and Cooperalls. If you want to get rid of us, you'll have to split an atom or two.

by KreiderDesigns on Nov 12, 2010 3:36 PM EST reply actions  

Backes re-signs $4.5M/season for 5 seasons. I think the world of Backes but St. Louis paid too much to re-sign him.

by memphisbrando on Nov 12, 2010 4:12 PM EST reply actions  

Samsies. He is getting more money than Hartnell. Hartnell signed when bigger contracts where getting handed out. Hartnell was a higher pick and more productive at the point of signing. And we still overpaid Hartnell at that time. Backes is overpaid now for sure.

by chrislanci on Nov 12, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Panaccio saying the Flyers can, and want to, resign both Carter and Leino.

I question Panaccio’s math on the cap in this article.

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."

by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Nov 12, 2010 4:27 PM EST reply actions  

And everyone else on the planet, but wanting to and being able to actually do it are not possible. See ya Jeff, Giroux took your dinero.

Just Call Me "M"!

by MJDII on Nov 12, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

If Panaccio is to be believed, the team is about to throw a 10-year, $60 to $63 million deal his way. Sounds like Jeff isn’t going anywhere.

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."

by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Nov 12, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Well I sure as shit hope not! He isn’t 6 million dollar material on this team. He better start scoring when the team is tied in third or behind a friggin goal not ahead by 3.

Just Call Me "M"!

by MJDII on Nov 12, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

awesome $6mil+ cap hit for a player who I still doesn’t fit in to this team’s makeup.

By next year this team will have 13 centers, 8 dmen, and hopefully 2 goalies; though they may choose to go with a center and a dman in their place.

Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Nov 12, 2010 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

The Cliff Notes for any lazy readers...
  • Team is preparing a 10-year, $60 to $63 million deal for Carter.
  • Adding Giroux’s $3.75 million hit and Carter’s assumed $6.3 million hit, that leaves the Flyers with $7 million in projected space (personally, I don’t think that can be correct, but that’s what Panaccio said).
  • He thinks Leino should get a $1.5 to $1.6 million, 3-year deal.
  • Unsure if Zherdev will be back next year.
  • “There is talk within the organization” whether both Shelley and Carcillo are necessary.
  • Darroll Powe may also not be brought back.

Again, this is all “according to Panaccio,” so take it with whatever sized grain of salt you think a Panaccio story is worth.

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."

by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Nov 12, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

There is no way Leino signs for $1.6.

Mourning Gagne forever.

by ToddtheFox on Nov 12, 2010 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

To be clear, I meant $1.6/year for 3 years. I’m sure your reply won’t change, but just in case there was any confusion I wanted to clear this up.

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."

by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Nov 12, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I really don’t see that happening still. I think he deserves at least a $2.5 contract.

Mourning Gagne forever.

by ToddtheFox on Nov 12, 2010 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s 26. This is his payday. He’s been one of the best Flyers on ice. If he’s signing anything less than 2 it’s for one season.

Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.

by PursuitOfLappyness on Nov 12, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

* "There is talk within the organization" whether both Shelley and Carcillo are necessary.
* Darroll Powe may also not be brought back.

Why?

I understand the Shelley / Carcillo deal, but Powe brings a lot of versatility to the table. He’s like a smarter Derrick Smith. You need guys like that in order to win.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Nov 12, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Sacrificing role players in order to add more superstars is a recipe for disaster. Just ask the NYY.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Nov 12, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Or the New York Rangers of the early 2000s, for that matter.

At least the Yank-Me’s won some championships. Those Rangers were the hottest of hot messes.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Nov 12, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Slightly higher salary cap can cover a lot of mistakes.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Nov 12, 2010 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

What I meant to say was higher salary with no cap…

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Nov 12, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree, but I don’t know if it’s worth speculating about yet. Too bad Shelley is the only one with a contract after this season.

Mourning Gagne forever.

by ToddtheFox on Nov 12, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Am I a lazy reader?

Just Call Me "M"!

by MJDII on Nov 12, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I know I am.

Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est.

by doubleh on Nov 12, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not, but I do play one on TV.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Nov 12, 2010 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Let’s do the math:

Add: Carter at $6 million, Leino at $1.6 (No way, BTW)

Don’t re-sign anybody else.

Waive Matt Walker, LTIR Laperriere.

That leaves $4 million to sign 5 players.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Ville Leino ($1.600m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Scott Hartnell ($4.200m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Jeff Carter ($6.000m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m)
Andreas Nodl ($1.000m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Michael Testwuide ($0.900m)
Ben Holmstrom ($0.750m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.925m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Kevin Marshall ($0.845m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m) /Michael Leighton ($1.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,467,262; BONUSES: $2,222,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $155,238

You re-sign Nodl at $1mil ($150k raise), Powe at $925k ($200k raise), call up Holmstrom, Testwuide, and Marshall, and you have $155k in cap space. If the cap goes up, you can give that excess to Leino (since there’s no way he signs for that cheap).

No more three scoring lines – which I’m okay with – but hell. I don’t think people will be happy with that lineup.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Does Wellwood make more money Geoff? I can’t believe he wouldn’t be one of the guys you had planned to call up after his prior stint. Unless you’d rather just have him get more experience in the Minors because he is so young.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 12, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

ooooh, good call. Completely forgot about him.

If you replace Testwuide with Wellwood (which makes a lot more sense) you have $215k in cap space, not $155.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

One season of that and people will be screaming about getting Mike someone who can play on his wing and score.

Also, the bonus cushion is huge. I’m really hoping O’Donnell and Bob don’t reach whatever they have to, because that could affect the cap for next season.

Mourning Gagne forever.

by ToddtheFox on Nov 12, 2010 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

haha, oh yeah, the bonus cushion is huge.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

If Bob plays here I don’t see how he doesn’t reach his bonuses, whatever they are.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 12, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

One more thing. f it becomes apparent that one of those guys is going to hit bonuses and push us over the cap could we waive a guy late. Think Walker or Boucher?

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 12, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but that doesn’t help much since the cap is calculated daily. If they reach their bonuses and the Flyers don’t have any room – which they likely won’t – those bonuses count against next year’s cap. On top of potential bonuses he receives next year.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Right But am talking preemptive moves. I am pulling this random scenario out of my ass here, but let’s say Bob has bonus for winning 30 games that would push us over the cap. When he gets to like 28 or so could we waive Walker and not be over? Or would the money we’ve been paying Walker count up to that point?

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 12, 2010 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

The money we’ve been paying Walker counts up to that point. So if Walker gets waived in January, he will have spent (pulling this number out of my ass) 100 days on the roster. With a daily cap hit of $9,140, the Flyers will be on the hook for $914,000 of Walker’s cap hit.

Thus, they will only “save” $786k of his cap hit, since they have to calculate the cap daily.

Is that clear enough? If not, check out this page from CapGeek: http://www.capgeek.com/tracker/team.php?team=24

You can see how it works by looking at Eric Wellwood. The Flyers won’t have to pay his $580k (or whatever) cap hit if he never gets recalled.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahh Ok, that makes sense. I wasn’t sure it it was just you can’t have had over 59.4 playing for you at one time or whatever.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Nov 13, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

haha, There’s that too.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 13, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Team is preparing a 10-year, $60 to $63 million deal for Carter.

NO! A thousand times! Sign him for 3-5 years at $4.5-5 mil. Or TRADE HIM PLEASE!

He thinks Leino should get a $1.5 to $1.6 million, 3-year deal.
Someone tell Panaccio to wake the fuck up and join the real world. I hope Leino only wants $1.5 mil. but I will be absolutely stunned if he gets less than $2.5 mil.. How does Panaccio have a job reporting on hockey? Baffling.
Unsure if Zherdev will be back next year.
Not surprising. Zherdev has so much talent but he just cannot seem to make everything click. Unfortunately, they won’t have $ to sign a legit replacement for him (whether that is a scorer or a defensive specialist) and we’ll be stuck with someone like Testwuide. Gag.
"There is talk within the organization" whether both Shelley and Carcillo are necessary.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I love how the organization only just realized this. Fucking idiots!
Darroll Powe may also not be brought back.
AHH! I am going to pull my hair out. Recipe for disaster. Lets let go of one our best penalty killers, has chemistry with Betts and comes cheap as shit considering what he does for this team.

Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter

by Mitchell Green on Nov 13, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

The only benefit to Carter being locked up long term is a smaller cap hit…that being said, I would rather they trade him than sign him for 3-5 years. Just my opinion though.

If Carter does not come back, Leino does not, and that I have an issue with.

"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard

by EREX21 on Nov 13, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Is $6-6.3 million a “smaller cap hit” though?

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 13, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya, he may not necessarily get $6 mil. every season depending on how they structure his contract, but regardless of that, wouldn’t he be a $6 mil. cap hit not matter of how the contract is structured (if it is in fact $60 mil. over 10 yrs)?

Regardless, from what I have seen from Carter, he is not worth the money that they are going to give him. And the, Jeff Carter will be the Andre Iguodala of the Flyers. He is a very good player but cannot be the lone star expected to carry and lead the team. When surrounded with talent and the opportunity to be that “Scottie Pippen” role player, he will do well. There is nothing wrong with that. However, $6-6.3 mil., to me, is elite forward money in the NHL. Jeff Carter is not an elite forward, in my book and there is no way Jeff Carter deserves more money than Mike Richards.

Yes, there are holes in this argument, but you get my point.

Also, I strongly dislike signing a player for 10 years, especially in the salary cap era.

Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter

by Mitchell Green on Nov 13, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

haha, the thing is I agree with you. I just don’t think $6-6.3 million is a “smaller cap hit”. If locking him up long-term creates a “smaller cap hit”, I don’t think $6 million satisfies that.

That’s all. If it’s a ten-year deal, it better not be for more than $5.5 per.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 13, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

All I said was a smaller cap hit, I didn’t say it was an acceptable cap hit. But a cap hit of 6-6.3 for 10 years is obviously lower than a cap hit of say 7 mil for 3 years. Is it an acceptable difference? IMO, no. But that was all I was saying.

I wouldn’t resign carter for 1 year let alone 10, but that’s me.

"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard

by EREX21 on Nov 13, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I’m not questioning that. I’m not even trying to argue.

I’m just saying if $6.3 is a “smaller cap hit”, something is seriously wrong. Because there’s no way he’s a $7 million player.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 13, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough. Personally, in my clearly biased mind…Carter is not much more than a 4.5 – 5 mil player. He’s just not.

"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard

by EREX21 on Nov 13, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya, I totally agree with both of you. Looking forward to be being furious when Homer overpays him and further fucks our cap situation.

Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter

by Mitchell Green on Nov 13, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Well I can’t say I am looking forward to it but I have accepted it’s inevitability and plan on bitching and complaining like never before when it happens.

"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard

by EREX21 on Nov 13, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Start you bitch and complaining NOW

As per Bob McKenzie:

Jeff Carter has agreed to terms on an 11-year, $58 million contract extension with the Philadelphia Flyers. AAV of $5.27M.

Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter

by Mitchell Green on Nov 13, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Well I’ll be honest….that isn’t as bad as I thought it would be. That being said…this sucks…say good bye to any flexibility this team was hoping to have one Briere’s contract ends. All I want for Xmas is Homer out of a job.

"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard

by EREX21 on Nov 13, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Rough Estimation

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Scott Hartnell ($4.200m)
Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.270m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.900m)
/ Darroll Powe ($0.900m) / Ville Leino ($3.000m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) /
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m) /Michael Leighton ($1.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,516,429; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $1,583,570
-———————————————————————————————————————————————
Leaves $1.5 mil to spend on a 7th defensemen and a 12th and 13th forward. Yikes! Hopefully Leino won’t get $3 mil and we can save $500k to $1mil

Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter

by Mitchell Green on Nov 13, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

The one true beauty of this…when Carter’s contract finally expires…Kovy’s will still have not one, not two but three years left on his.

"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard

by EREX21 on Nov 13, 2010 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Deep breath; ok. I’m going to say this. There is a 67% chance Carcillo and/or Powe are gone next year. I said it.

Let's do it again

by Cillo stache on Nov 12, 2010 5:02 PM EST reply actions  

I think Carcillo has an 80% chance of being gone.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 12, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Mustache aficionados city-wide have a 100% chance of being sad.

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."

by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Nov 12, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless he has some extraordinary rest of this season and makes himself irreplaceable or takes a serious pay-cut to play in Philadelphia, I’d say he is 99% gone.

I love squeezy mustaches as much as the next 17 year old high school girl who is obsessed with ugly hockey players but I would rather the Flyers retain any other player, except Shelley, than Carcillo.

Sorry Carrie :( haha

Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter

by Mitchell Green on Nov 13, 2010 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Sigh. I think I can deal with obessing with him on a different team. And he isn’t (that) ugly! I like you used my name, by the way.

And I say 67% cause we all have witnessed the stupidity when it comes to drafts. I mean, its a miracle in it of itself he was resigned after the first year. He has come a long way, and is getting very good.

Let's do it again

by Cillo stache on Nov 13, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Whelp. Evelyn years is a long time.

by Snevik on Nov 13, 2010 4:58 PM EST reply actions  

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