On media feuds, the motives of a blogger and why we all belong
Editor's Note: We try not to stray away from coverage of Flyers hockey too often, but as somebody who makes his livelihood in this new media world, and as somebody who deeply cares about the issues surrounding the coverage of our sport, it's hard for me to stay silent on this subject for long. If media issues do not interest you, feel free to skip this post. This does have a lot to do with what we do here at BSH on a daily basis, however, so if our motives interest you, please stick with it here. Just beware -- there are a lot of words down there.
As a sidebar to the Colin Campbell email incident, which just happened to be researched and made public by excellent Edmonton Oilers blogger Tyler Dellow, a light has again shifted back to the ever-changing relationship between members of the traditional hockey media and members of the new, fan-based Internet media.
The Score put together a great package last week on the topic, featuring comments from Dellow, Julian Sanchez of SB Nation's Pension Plan Puppets, former SB Nation hockey manager and current Globe & Mail Leafs beat reporter James Mirtle, Steve McAllister of Yahoo! Canada, and Damien Cox of the Toronto Star, who's often been a critic of the work done in the blogosphere.
It's a great piece that they've put together, and you can see it below.
There's obviously a lot to comment on here and a lot to debate and discuss. I'll give my take, as well as a bit of background on how we approach things here at BSH after the jump.
There's something about generalizations that piss me off more than just about anything. Politics, of course, gives us the best examples. Democrats are whiny elitists who listen to NPR while waiting for another government check. Republicans only watch Fox News and hate poor people.
It works just the same in sports, too. Flyers fans are a bunch of carnivorous pigs. Capitals fans have only been watching hockey since 2005.
None of these statements are true, but so many of us believe them, and as a result, we grow to hate each other.
If Capitals fans have only been watching hockey since 2005, then why should we waste our time talking to them? They clearly don't know what they're talking about anyway, right? So what if they show evidence that Mike Green actually can play defense? It doesn't matter. They don't have the hockey knowledge we have. They're from Washington.
And if Flyers fans are a bunch of classless assholes who get everything they want with their fists, then they're automatically wrong any time they speak up and say something's wrong with the way their team has been treated, right? So what if there's evidence to prove it? It doesn't matter. They're from Philadelphia.
Generalizations are a way of marginalizing the ideas of people that we disagree with, and as a result, things just turn into a giant pissing match.
Mutual disrespect
Getting to the point here, let's look at what Damien Cox had to say about bloggers.
Transcribing a bit from his talk with The Score:
I understand that's part of what people who consider themselves outside the mainstream media -- they want to portray themselves as somehow more honest, tougher, nastier. I understand that's what they want to do and to do it, they try to tear down other people and quite frankly, I think that's a waste of everybody's time.
[...]
Part of what concerns me about what I see is that there's an irresponsibility and no consequences. "I can say whatever I want about anybody and I don't even have to put my name on it." I can't see how that's good.
[...]
That's something I hear from people who are bloggers, as though what they've identified as "the mainstream media," somehow they want to suggest that these are all people who have been bought and are protecting the establishment and are not to be trusted. And that's their schtick. I get it. To the same extent, they feel like they're outsiders and therefore they're the only honest people in the business.
It's all a big load of stereotype from Cox. He talks like bloggers are The Other and that there's no trusting them. All of 'em. It's a universal thing.
I'm a blogger. I'm pretty sure I've never tried to tear anybody down. Sure, I've criticized people when I've felt it was necessary and I don't think any writer -- blogger or otherwise -- should ever be afraid to do something like that when they have the facts or a strong, fact-based opinion behind them. There's no apologizing for that, as critique is one of the main functions of journalism.
Clear from his words to The Score, Cox has a label on bloggers as people who are anonymous, irresponsible and unaccountable. They don't have to answer to anybody, and of course in many cases, that's the reality. We all know that anybody can start a blog and anybody can get their opinion out there.
But just as anybody can print and distribute their own newspaper if they please, it will only become influential if the work is quality. In blogging, the cream certainly rises to the top. If you do solid work, it gets noticed by people and it gains acclaim and it gets passed around, as was the case with Dellow's story on the Campbell emails. If there was no evidence to back up what Dellow was saying, that story is dead in the water.
More importantly, though, nobody would ever read Tyler Dellow's work again (a phenomenon that occurs whether a blogger uses a pen name or not, by the way). To say there's no accountability in blogging is an incredibly misinformed statement.
But to be fair, this generalization thing goes the other way as well. Dellow touched on it with The Score.
The idea that the mainstream media is somehow a trusted and reliable source just because they aren't fans of a team -- they have all sorts of other interests and all sorts of other reasons to report certain stories, not report other stories or take a certain angle on a story.
This is a common misconception that a lot of people have as well. When reading something that a blogger is writing, it seems and feels a lot closer to what you're actually thinking because, let's face it -- the blogger is a fan just like you.
Meanwhile, the traditional media writers and reporters are different. They're not like fans. They answer to their editors who are constantly down their throats about assignments, and they need to keep their sources happy or else they'll lose they won't get those assignments done and they'll lose their jobs and their kids will starve and--
No, that's not really how it works. That stuff happens, sure, but there's a general sense sometimes among bloggers and even among a lot of fans that sports journalism works that way and only that way. It's a bad assumption to work from -- a bad generalization to make.
It's not a matter of trust or ulterior motives. That stuff works itself out, mostly thanks to the very art of journalism or the sheer science that says consumers will read what they believe is quality and trustworthy, and anything else will likely fail. Most journalists are in the game to get the story right, as are most bloggers.
That's the point to where this all boils down.
The lone difference
There's really only one major change in hockey coverage that's come with the advent of social media, blogs and the Internet, and it's a fairly obvious one.
The angle.
Traditional media members are impartial journalists. Bloggers are fans, or, as nails-against-a-chalkboard as it may sound to anybody who's been to journalism school (like myself, mind you), fan journalists.
Most of what we do here at BSH is fan journalism, and to brush us off and say what we do isn't journalism, as many like Cox surely wish to do, isn't really all that fair. Just because most bloggers didn't go to J-school doesn't mean that what that blogger has to say is any less important than what's written in the Sunday paper, nor does it make it any less sound on a journalistic level.
Here, we provide information and fact-based opinion. We're beholden to the truth just as is your typical journalist, we provide a forum for meaningful debate, and we're trusted by our audience to provide an accurate account of what we see. It may be considered a form civic journalism by many, but it is indeed journalism.
Our readers know up front, however, that our account is provided through a different lens, and as it turns out, there's a hunger for that. People like getting hockey news and opinion from somebody who's a fan like they are. This debate wouldn't be happening otherwise.
Cox and many like him have a real problem with this idea, and it's understandable. It goes against the grain of everything we're taught as journalists. As he told The Score:
The basic tenet of sports journalism, as far as I've been in it, is no cheering in the press box. And some places literally have signs, "no cheering in the press box." If your primary function is to cheer for the team, then you belong in the stands with the fans.
But despite objection, this is where things are changing, and this is where we get into the depths of what we do here at BSH and what many other great team blogs do around the hockey blogosphere.
As James Mirtle tells The Score, it's not necessarily a bad thing that there are journalists covering NHL teams that also want them to win the game at the end of the night. As he says, it's all about the shared experience for the reader. It's all about knowing that the writer is coming from the same spot you're coming from.
The motives of a blogger
I'm a fan of the Philadelphia Flyers before anything else. I don't have any other motives, and I think that as a fan journalist, people understand my motives. I want the Flyers to win the Stanley Cup. Plain and simple. That's why I wake up and run this Web site every single day.
I've been lucky enough to turn it into a livelihood and I'm humbled by the opportunity I have each day to do that, because it's not something that a lot of people have the chance to do. I'm also lucky enough to be in charge of the hockey wing here at SB Nation, where we have 36 hockey blogs that do great work every single day.
All of our blogs are fantastic, but as is the case with many different newspapers, they tend to have different styles -- different approaches to how they cover their teams or their particular subjects. The one thing they all have in common though, at least the blogs that cover a particular team, is that the bloggers run their sites out of a passion for that team.
That's the goal. We all want our teams to win the Stanley Cup. That's where our writing is rooted, and it's not something we should apologize for.
Here at Broad Street Hockey, we're privileged enough to be credentialed for Flyers games. That's something I cherish and call a privilege, but I also believe we belong there. There's a place for us in that press box and in that locker room because it gives a certain depth to our coverage, even if it's only background. The argument that fans should be in the seats and that they have no purpose in the press box is just silly.
A lot of bloggers, including many of our blogs here at SB Nation, don't want the access because they're afraid it will tarnish what they've been able to do. It'll change how they write. Or, they just prefer being on the outside.
I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because again, we all have different styles. Personally, though, I don't look at it that way. All the access in the world isn't going to change the fact that I'm a Flyers fan before all else, and that's what makes the writing of bloggers so valuable to people reading it.
Cox talks -- with a sizable amount of disdain -- about how it's the "outsider perspective" that makes this blogging thing so appealing to readers. If this is really true, then of course we're not needed in the press box. We're outsiders. We don't want to be there anyway. Unfortunately for the detractors who don't want bloggers in the sacred press box, that "outsider perspective" doesn't have much to do with why people read blogs.
Maybe I'm wrong or outside the norm, but I started reading blogs because of the shared experience that James Mirtle talks about. I believe that's why people come to this site everyday. Hell, it's why I read every comment on this site (although you guys do make it difficult...), it's why I read every other Flyers blog on the Web and it's why I read tens of hundreds of other hockey blogs. I care about what other fans think. It's all about the community we've formed. That's what makes this blogging thing so fun -- the shared experience.
As a fan who writes about the Flyers on a daily basis, I know so much more now than I did three months ago before I had access to the Flyers. Each time I step in that press box or that dressing room, I learn something new about this team and about the players and personalities on it, and it definitely enhances my ability to cover this team on a more comprehensive level. It's become a vital part of what we do here, and for somebody to say we don't belong there just because we're fans is pretty ridiculous.
Balancing fanaticism with professionalism
We're in our first full season of having access to the team. As far as I know, I'm the only fan journalist that's been to every home game this season, and beyond that, there are just a few others there on a game-by-game basis. We're a small class here in Philadelphia, as is the case in just about every other NHL press box.
But as someone who's been there all year thus far, I can tell you that none of us fan journalists in the press box ever outwardly cheer for the team while we're there. Sure, in my head I'm going nuts when Claude Giroux makes a dazzling pass, and it helps that I can unleash that energy in our GameThreads, but it's a professional atmosphere.
You just simply don't outwardly show emotion. You don't wear your jersey in the press box. You don't ask for autographs in the locker room (or anywhere). You don't jump out of your seat when Sergei Bobrovsky makes a ridiculous save. There's a certain level of decorum, and yes, believe it or not, sports fans can be professional too.
I can only speak to what we do here at BSH, but that professionalism also carries over to what we write.
We take that fan angle. We're going to be sarcastic and we're going to poke fun at the other team from time to time and we're going to write with orange-colored glasses and we're going to do it without apology. To an extent, I think that gives us the opportunity to be a bit more free in what we say than the typical impartial writer.
We're allowed to have deep opinions on the game, and those opinions carry a lot of weight because, again, at the end of the day, our opinions are an extension of the hope for that ultimate prize at the end. We're not just writing to make a living. We're writing because we love our team.
That doesn't mean we aren't critical, of course. We're certainly not all "rah rah! Go Flyers! woo!" around here, and anybody who reads this site regularly knows that all too well. I'd say that more often than not, we're in a position to be more critical than even the most impartial of the traditional members of the media, and it's not because we don't have sources or anything absurd like that. No, it's much simpler than that.
We want the team to win and we're allowed to wear it on our sleeves. If Jeff Carter is playing poorly, we're going to say it because we want him to get better. We want what's best for the hockey team. That's what it all comes down to at the end of the day. And really, I've always thought that's the way it should be.
Room for everybody
Sports are inherently biased, right? At the core, it's all about you-versus-me, us-versus-them. There's no reason that all the writing around sports should be rooted in impartiality. After all, impartiality is something that really has no place in the sports experience for the most important people involved -- the fans.
That's not to say impartial reporting isn't needed in sports. It obviously is, and that's where the nexus between traditional media and fan media can become more of a partnership and less of a head-on collision. While it's certainly a war between the two parties in many places around the NHL map, I think we're sorting it out pretty well here in Philadelphia.
We typically don't report news here at BSH. We don't have the sources to do that sort of thing and we're not in that business. Leave that up to the traditional journalists. We cite those guys and girls every single day on this site and we're happy to do it. It's not what we do.
Here, we're in the analysis game. We're in the commentary game. We're in the understanding-the-sport game. We're in the figuring-out-what-the-Flyers-need-to-do-to-win-the-Cup game. When news breaks, we analyze it. We try to understand it. We try to figure out just how this is going to impact the Flyers' chances at winning hockey games.
We use numbers and we use facts to get a better, more in-depth understanding of what's going on with this team. That's what we try to do, and I think to this point, we've done a pretty solid job at it. The traditional journalists in this town have taken notice, too. More and more, our work is being cited in print around here.
The mutual respect that for some reason missing in many other places seems pretty evident, at least as we're involved, here in Philadelphia. I don't mean to imply that everything is all rosy and perfect here. We have to continue doing good work to prove we belong. After all, we're the new guy, right? A guy like Wayne Fish has been covering the Flyers for almost 30 years, and here we come strolling in thinking we're equal.
No, it takes time to build up that respect. I think that's understood, but that also doesn't mean that we should be shrugged off like we're just a bunch of pesky fans that don't belong, as guys like Damien Cox seem to suggest all too often.
All it takes is a little open-mindedness. A little less of the "bloggers are the boogieman" mentality. Traditional media has a place here. Fan media has a place here. It's really not as complicated as all the fighting makes it seem.
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Bravo
Great blog. Most fans I know read both bloggers and mainstream media to get information about the teams they root for. Veteran journalists like Damien Cox seem appalled that a blogger would have a rooting interest when covering a team. What about MSM members who have personal grudges against individual players.
In Philadelphia, Sam Carchidi’s well known dislike of Mike Richards led to a slug entitled “Captain Whine”. Further, even veteran writers have castigated individuals for not being more forthcoming in dealing with the media. I read coverage of my team to see as much information and opinion as I can.
In fact, when a blogger such as yourself or Bill Meltzer writes about the sport, it carries more weight with me than a guy like Carchidi, who obviously isn’t nearly as well versed in the sport as guys like you and Bill who have been serious fans for years and write about the sport out of love, not because they got assigned to it.
Well done, Travis.
I particularly liked the closing, because I’m reminded of the Richards/Subban battle. Subban has a place in the NHL, but he has to earn that respect. So long as we (in particular, you, since you’re in the room) continue to earn respect, that respect should be given. But it isn’t automatic. Keep our head down, be professional, and it will come.
So far, you’re doing that. Kudos.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor
by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 11:09 AM EST reply actions
Your thoughts are pretty much how I try to describe the MSM-blog situation to my family and friends.
RE Damien Cox: He’s right when he says that bloggers don’t have to face up to anyone. That’s one of the strengths of bloggers. Being able to talk about issues that might get a writer’s credentials taken away is something that gives bloggers power to bring quality and important news to the forefront for fans.
Managing Editor for Brotherly Game, SBNation's Philadelphia Union blog and contributor for SBN Philly. // @scottdkessler
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
Well, Cox doesn’t go to practices or games or face the people he accuses of using steroids (Jose Bautista) either. What he means is that he doesn’t think, and this is a belief held by that idiot Bruce Dowbiggin too, that bloggers are legally liable for what they write which is patently untrue.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
The whole Jose Bautista situation was a feather in the cap for my hatred for Cox. He is one of the biggest hypocrites in media and his mustache is stupid, too (I couldn’t help myself).
Managing Editor for Brotherly Game, SBNation's Philadelphia Union blog and contributor for SBN Philly. // @scottdkessler
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
by Scott Kessler on Nov 29, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Access
Seems to me a blogger could have access revoked by a Club, especially should that blogger post crap and BS or innuendo that’s not based on any revealed facts, or doesn’t support the goal of audience and Club — that is, how can the Club be its best, and all the discussion that follows from it.
Bloggers are critical for that reason – the Fan who can write, has interview skills, and is passionate about the success of the Club is a benefit to both Club and Fan. And would be stupid to be “irresponsible” and post crap.
Well done Travis and keep up the good work.
by Georgia_Flyer on Nov 30, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
This entire post is amazing. I could not rec’ this enough.
Thank you for this post, Travis. Great job.
by AppleSweetRose on Nov 29, 2010 11:30 AM EST reply actions
Another reason
Mainstream Media types can not validate the work that is going on in the blog world because blogging is a direct threat to their livilihood. That is all this is about.
Damien Cox can not out and say anything positive about blogging because if blogging truly becomes an accepted and legitimized form of media to the general masses (you can argue it already is), then media companies struggling with that bottom line are going to look to these ‘fan’ journalists to provide content for a freelance price without any sort of benefits you pay an established columnists like Damien Cox.
I understand where he’s coming from even if I don’t necessarily agree. He’s from the old school where you pay your dues and put in your time to get where you are and you’re being asked to legitimize the new kid before they have travelled the same road you have.
Bloggers are a legitimate threat to these established voices and they know it. You only have to look at the steadily improving quality of the top tier online voices (This network and Puck Daddy spring to mind) to know that the old ways are on their way out.
I mean hell…Damien Cox has a blog, along with a lot of the most established voices up here in Canada when it comes to hockey
Damien Cox complains about blogs and the future of media but fails to grasp the current state of the business that he is in. It’s very hard for a journalism student to find any sort of job in the industry as is currently, especially in the sports journalism industry. To “put in time” one has to have the opportunity to do so and I know for a fact that if I graduated today (I’m a journalism student at Rutgers University) that I would not be able to get the same opportunity to “put in time” that Cox did when he got his own degree. Blogging is my way into the sports journalism world because it provides me with a way to do so. If Cox wants to fit against blogging then he needs to give a solution for how bloggers could otherwise break into his world the way he did, relative to the current climate of the industry.
Managing Editor for Brotherly Game, SBNation's Philadelphia Union blog and contributor for SBN Philly. // @scottdkessler
"College is only 4 years, but the Eagles are for life." - Ironhank
by Scott Kessler on Nov 29, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
If Damien Cox does fail to understand the state of his industry, it’s probably because he works for the #1 newspaper in terms of readership in Canada, and he also is a media personality on TSN, so he has a lot of different sources of income right now. If he worked for a smaller paper, or in a smaller media market, he probably would not have that same kind of disconnect.
To be honest, I actually think he does know his industry is in stagnant growth (and in some cases bleeding readers), and likes this kind of back and forth game. He likes making himself the target.
As for maintaining press box decorum, I can see his point. I will say this, though: it’s probably way worse at international tournaments… some country’s media is going to cheer for their team no matter what. :)
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
As for maintaining press box decorum, I can see his point.
I just see this as a complete non-issue. We can all be professional. It’s not too difficult.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that it can be upheld whether you’re a fan journalist or a sports journalist. I just see it from him as maintaining a standard.
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For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
Absolutely it’s a non issue.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
I’m not disagreeing with you that places in journalism are hard to get, but at the same time then you can see exactly why these MSM types do not like Bloggers getting any sort of mainstream acceptability. To go through the whole journalism system, from school to cub reporting all the way up to a large readership and your own byline, only to see the stereotypical amateur blogger sharing that stage with you despite not having the same sort of education and training could be tough to take.
Where he swings and misses is that a lot of the quality bloggers coming through are college grads (or future college grads) who are embracing the new media as a way to make a living in their chosen field as the jobs in the old world dry up. You make a very good point about that. The quality of the writing online is going up exponentially with the amount of journalism students/grads who are forced to find non-traditional means to make a living.
Basically though, this isn’t about bloggers (Cox blogs himself) and rather it’s all about ‘the elites’ at the top of the food chain looking down and feeling threatened by what is coming up behind them. To recognize writers from non-traditional mediums would put their places at risk. It is easier and more profitable to lump all bloggers together and dismiss them out of hand.
That’s what I was trying to say when I said the cream rises to the top in blogging. A mediocre writer isn’t going to have an audience. Seems pretty simple to me. I don’t think the stereotypical amateur blogger is ever going to get to the point where they’re in an NHL press box.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
WOW
No seriously, tell us what you really think.
I kidd. Nice work.
Leino = $$$
by flyerfreek on Nov 29, 2010 11:41 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Speaking of disprespect among media members...
It seems like Lambert and Wyshinski have taken jabs at BSH multiple times recently in the What We Learned section. I mean I guess it’s good they’re reading but it seems like they’ve been taking a lot of unnecessary jabs at what I consider interesting and well-researched articles by you guys even if I or any outsider would happen to disagree. Anyone else notice this?
Yeah, not sure what his issue really is with us. It just so happened to first rear its head this weekend… when we played his favorite team for the first and only time this year…. shrug
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Lambert’s just like that.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
by red army line on Nov 29, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
They both like Chemmy and I but they take jabs at us. We take jabs at them. It’s a jab-eat-jab world.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.
Wysh & Lambert
Enjoy jabbing in general, esp. Lambert – but remember also that they don’t like the Flyers. So expect to be jabbed a bit more. I wouldn’t take it personally.
by Georgia_Flyer on Nov 30, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with PPP that it’s definitely a jab-eat-jab world. I’ve never seen Lambert do it, but Wysh has also occasionally given props or credit to BSH in the past. I specifically remember a hint of jealousy when Slap Schtick first started, about how awesome it was and how they wish they’d thought of it. It’s definitely not a constant stream of compliments or anything, but I don’t think it’s blind hatred like Lambert.
They can’t always be lumped together as having the exact same viewpoint, even though both feel the Flyers are the enemy. For example, on Monday, Lambert wrote this in the What We Learned:
Philadelphia Flyers: Great boohooism over the Pronger/Avery Rule situation over at Broad Street Hockey. Yes, the officials should violate their collective bargaining agreement with the league to explain a painfully obvious call. Good work, everyone.While the same day, in the very next post, Wysh wrote:
The silliest thing, however, was the NHL’s explanation for the call, in which a league that adhered to a strict constructionist view of the rulebook on serious issues like hits to the head suddenly can ignore its own verbiage in order to justify a novice official’s mistake.
…
The Flyers were jobbed here. Case closed.
by DragonGirl0583 on Nov 30, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Let's split a hair here
I think a useful distinction to be made here is that within the traditional print media, you have beat writers, and columnists.
Beat writers are not in conflict with bloggers generally, they are the “boots on the ground” who provide the steady stream of news upon which our daily conversation is built.
Columnists, on the other hand, simply voice an opinion. It’s an opinion that is usually steeped in experience and “insider access”, but is usually devoid of any substantive analysis. This is the ground upon which the blog world makes the best progress, and represents the greatest threat to the status quo, like Cox.
On the Forecheck is SB Nation's blog covering the Preds (be sure to check out my discount offer on Nashville Predators tickets). Catch me on Twitter at @Forechecker, or join our legions on Facebook at Facebook.com/OnTheForecheck.
For the reasons you list, I very rarely read newspaper columnists. Never have, never will. Especially here in Philadelphia. They’re kind of out of my worldview, so to speak, when it comes to this stuff, but you’re right… that is a necessary distinction.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Well, It always depends on who’s writing IMO. Obviously the Inquire and Daily News have some “spotty” writers for all the teams (Although I think Seravalli has been good). And Anthony SanFlip is also very good. There are some bloggers who I really don’t care for either. I don’t get why some writers don’t like the bloggers. Maybe because they feel threatened or something.
But for me, It comes down to who I think writes the best articles, is fast, reliable, and has mostly similar ideas about what’s going on with the team. I don’t really like Panotch’s ideas or articles(I think he’s way too biased on players), but he’s always the first to know(probably from being on CSN). And I don’t really know how Carchidi has a job, but I do know he’s good with the people that follow him(he always replies to my Twitter whenever I respond to something he tweets). I know this is just my opinion, and you obviously know more about the industry then I will ever know. And you get more access then other sites too. And personally, as much as I actually dislike the media and even the fans in this town, I don’t think we are the worst. As bad as the writers are here, you can see that most of them are actually into the team. All that said, I still think your the best, and nobody has a better catch phrase haha.
Samesis
Columnists, on the other hand, simply voice an opinion. It’s an opinion that is usually steeped in experience and "insider access", but is usually devoid of any substantive analysis. This is the ground upon which the blog world makes the best progress, and represents the greatest threat to the status quo, like Cox.
I’m going to write my own post on this but that was one point I made – a bit differently – in the section that got cut. Breaking news, in the age of Twitter, is almost of no value and does not distinguish one reporter from another. What is most valuable now is the analysis of the moves that sets people apart and frankly, on most beats, the best bloggers are beating in the biggest names’ brains.
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Question
I just posed this question on Twitter as well. I don’t see many beat writers with issues about blogger access. In fact, one of the best in the business actually helped the fight here in Minnesota. I don’t ever seem to read or hear of the beat writer causing the fuss.
So, the question is this. Is it the columnists, the opinion guys, that have the issue? We are on their territory more than we are on the beat writer’s territory. Cox is not a beat writer. He is a columnist. He gets paid for his opinion, and that is what we provide. Opinion (based in fact hopefully) about what the team is doing.
Thoughts on that? None of the facts first guys seem to have much issue here.
Editor:Hockey Wilderness Assistant Editor:SBN Minnesota Owner: Komissaari erämaa
Rule #17: You may not impersonate representatives of Hockey Wilderness and handout NHL themed wrist bands.
Dammit. Should have read Dirk’s post right above this.
Editor:Hockey Wilderness Assistant Editor:SBN Minnesota Owner: Komissaari erämaa
Rule #17: You may not impersonate representatives of Hockey Wilderness and handout NHL themed wrist bands.
Sorry Dirk. Ignore I was here. * walks away in shame *
Editor:Hockey Wilderness Assistant Editor:SBN Minnesota Owner: Komissaari erämaa
Rule #17: You may not impersonate representatives of Hockey Wilderness and handout NHL themed wrist bands.
Even still, the angle we come from is a totally different angle than that of a newspaper columnist. We’re fans, they aren’t. They have opinions, but they’re still coming from a much different place than we are. They’re still the impartial journalist telling it as they see it, and we’re the fan journalist telling it as we see it. They’re still totally different in my eyes.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Well… they claim to be impartial. Most of the columnists here in MN have lived here their entire lives. They grew up watching these teams, cheered for them when they were young. They can’t just suddenly shut that off, right?
Editor:Hockey Wilderness Assistant Editor:SBN Minnesota Owner: Komissaari erämaa
Rule #17: You may not impersonate representatives of Hockey Wilderness and handout NHL themed wrist bands.
I think it’s different in Minnesota… the columnists here don’t even like hockey, for the most part… but I see what you’re saying. Still, they’re writing from the perspective as an impartial witness, not a fan, and that’s what makes the difference, IMO.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
In smaller markets, the beat writers do op-ed pieces as well. Not as many, but it’s not unheard of.
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Our beat writers occasionally do opinion pieces for the Sunday paper.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Great post – you said a lot about how I feel much better than I could have said it.
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Excellant Work, Travis
Well thought out piece of fact based “opinion”. Personally, I think Damien Cox sees the writing on the wall as far as the newspaper business goes and is trying to justify and protect his own job. The rise of the internet represents a very real threat to the survival of nerwspapers as we know them.. I won’t argue the merits as to whether this is good or bad, but the more people turn to the internet for their news and op/ed regarding their favorite teams, the less relevant newspapers become.
My problem with the Great and Powerful Oz (aka Puck Daddy) is that his is supposed to be a national blog and he too often allows his “homerism” to bleed into it. However that is “my” problem and if I choose not to read him, then perhaps Yahoo will find someone else to take his place
by Pocono Flyers Fan on Nov 29, 2010 12:45 PM EST reply actions
It’s all about adaptation. Newspapers may die very soon, but what impartial journalists — a columnist or otherwise — do will never die. The business side needs to adapt to change, and so far they have not done a good job of that, and as a result they’re struggling. These guys don’t have to feel threatened… they just need to adapt to the times. At least that’s how I look at it.
I don’t think Wyshynski lets his homerism infest his commentary one bit. And he’s at least up front about it, which is really all we can ask for from somebody commenting on league-wide issues. I think that’s the one thing that impresses me most about him, actually. It’s really, really difficult to do that.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not as sold on Wysh keeping bias out of his columns. The first thought in my head after reading his Pronger piece was “wait a minute, Wysh wrote this?!”
Honor is no substitute for victory.
by The Dark on Nov 30, 2010 12:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Tremendous piece, Travis – a really well put, well thought out and balanced look at an ongoing issue. Like you guys, we’re fortunate enough to cover a team that includes us as part of the media and treats us the same. And in fact the Caps have one of the more open policies towards bloggers in general, which has its downsides (not everyone credentialed to be in the press box necessarily belongs there) but ultimately means the team gets better coverage from a broader range of voices than just the beat reporter from the Post.
Leonsis was smart enough to realize that would be a benefit and the organization has been amazing in carrying it out. And it’s been huge for Caps coverage, particularly in a town where the Redskins are king – no matter how crappy they may be or how many TDs they may give up to the Eagles in the first five minutes of a game…
But as you say, it’s all about adaptation. Those who get that the future of journalism is across multiple forums and intertwined with new media – using things like blogs and Twitter accounts maintained by beat writers – and who understand that to coexist with the fan journalists is in their best interest, will last long after newspapers in their traditional format die out. It shouldn’t be about us vs. them, it should be us plus them.
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Parallel
The business side needs to adapt to change, and so far they have not done a good job of that, and as a result they’re struggling. These guys don’t have to feel threatened… they just need to adapt to the times. At least that’s how I look at it.
Today, I see “traditional journalism” in the same spot that the music industry was in at the end of the 1990s. MP3s came out and suddenly, music was being heard out of computer speakers. More importantly, music was being shared in an entirely different way. Some of it was even being put out there for (gasp) FREE. It took the industry a little while to catch up, but obviously they have. People are just as likely – if not more so – to buy albums from the iTunes Store than they are to buy them from a traditional record store.
There are good and bad sides to the industry’s adaptation. My problems with the industry aside, the advances of technology have still been more beneficial than not to artists. Some have been signed to deals by putting their music on sites like MySpace and Bandcamp. Others have gotten noticed due to YouTube; Justin Bieber is an example of this, but so is Pomplamoose. Who is Pomplamoose? They’re that almost-too-cute boy-girl duo you’re seeing in those Christmas-y Hyundai commercials. They did a YouTube cover of Beyonce’s “Put A Ring On It,” got 6 million views, and Hyundai came knocking.
My point is that the music industry adapted to the changes presented by new media. It was not without kicking and screaming for a little while, as traditional journalism is doing now. But it adapted and now artists who present their work digitally are being taken seriously by everybody. It’s win-win until an artist gets a major label deal, but that’s neither here nor there.
The reason I’m bringing this parallel up is that I believe traditional journalism will eventually acquiesce and find a way to allow itself to coexist with new media. My hope is that, in so doing, it does not co-opt new media in the way that the music business did. I would hate for AOL Time Warner, for example, to purchase SB Nation and begin to filter down instructions as to what constitutes “acceptable” fan journalism.
The fact that you (Travis) have parlayed this site into a career is a credit to your hard work and journalistic integrity. In other words, you’ve been doing something right and you’re being rewarded for it. That said, the reaction of other SB Nation writers who do not want the same level of access that you have does not surprise me.
they’re afraid it will tarnish what they’ve been able to do. It’ll change how they write.
If traditional journalism / the mainstream media manages to co-opt, or buy out entirely, networks like SB Nation, then certain bloggers WILL be forced to change how they write, yourself included. But we’re not there, at least not yet.
My hope is that honest fan-based reporting such as yours continues to gain in acceptance. But my hope is also that the hard work that you and others have done does not eventually lead to the other side of the mountain, where blogs like this become “just another mouthpiece” for large media companies, whatever that may mean.
I’m not trying to sound conspiratorial or anything, for what it’s worth. This stuff is an all-too-common occurrence. Something new comes along; it gets noticed because it is good; it gains in respectability; it gains in popularity; it causes some discomfort among the status quo… and then one of three things happen:
- Its popularity ends, for one reason or another, and it is swept into the dustbin of history;
- It is co-opted or brought out entirely, and made part of the mainstream; or,
- It somehow manages to exist and thrive on its own, according to its own principles.
I hope the last holds true for you and everyone at SB Nation (and other blogs) who are fighting the good fight and keeping things honest and fresh.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
All of those concerns you outlined in there certainly important. I think about that quite a bit, in fact, but I know that SB Nation isn’t selling any time soon. It’s definitely fair to think about as something that may happen down the road, though.
I kind of lean back on the idea that I’m always a fan first and I hope that’s what carries us through, and no matter who is in charge of things on the business end, the goal is for them to realize that’s what makes this whole thing so popular. If we stay true to that, I think we’ll be fine.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I know that SB Nation isn’t selling any time soon.
Good to know.
I kind of lean back on the idea that I’m always a fan first and I hope that’s what carries us through, and no matter who is in charge of things on the business end, the goal is for them to realize that’s what makes this whole thing so popular.
To do another parallel, there are even examples of this in the crooked music industry. Built To Spill and Wilco are probably the best examples of bands who got popular enough to be on major labels just by doing what they did. And those two bands have had a lot of control in what they’ve done since getting “big” – and remained popular. So it’s rare, but it happens.
The flip side would be MTV and VH1 – both of which became popular for showing music on television. Now, they do anything BUT. What made them good and popular when they started is NOT what makes them popular now.
At any rate, I agree with you and hope you’re right about SB Nation. If you have time, I recommend reading my link above re: the music industry. It’s an older article from 1993 or 1994, but it still holds true today. In particular, pay attention to the part about A & R men. What you said about SB Nation’s popularity reminds me of them.
Plus, Steve Albini will remind you of MarioD in some ways. It’ll be a flashback of sorts.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Funny read on the music industry piece.
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by JerseyDriver on Nov 29, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
A MAINSTREAM PERSPECTIVE
I think you did a fine job with your analysis Travis.
Unfortunately, too many of my colleagues in the mainstream media do, in fact, look down on the blogger nation as a phony breed of wannabe journalists.
They couldn’t be further from the truth.
Are there miscreants out there who post stuff on blogs that is either false, or intentionally misleading or inflammatory just to draw attention to themselves without any substantiated information to back their position?
Yes.
But for each one of them, there are a dozen folks like you who are willing to work hard and be professional about their job.
I personally find it refreshing to see so many new faces at Flyers games offering a different perspective than the staid peephole presentation the mainstream writers have provided for generations.
It’s good to see guys like yourself and Steve Whyno and Dustin Leed trying to be trailblazers in this town as to the way the sport of hockey is covered and presented to the public.
I used to champion myself as the voice of the fan, and while a part of me still likes to think that exists on some level, the fact of the matter is you guys are the real voice of the fan because you are, in fact, fans.
As someone who grew up here and lived and died with the Flyers’ teams of the mid/late 80s (I’m dating myself here) and the Lindros era, I can only wistfully wish that an outlet like the one you provide existed for fans like myself.
Alas, we never had anything like it, so when we all became members of the media (and I know I am in the minority, but I never attended a journalism school, nor never had a journalism class in college) we were taught to check our fandom at the door and become objective drones.
It honestly sucked. There I was, a sanitized version of my former self, sharing only the information that I deemed newsworthy with the public.
But now, thanks to bloggers like yourself and Web Sites like SB Nation, I don’t have to conform to that antiquated style.
I can offer more opinion (and at times let that screaming teenager of yesteryear’s emotion seep through), more analysis and follow much less of the stoic pattern I was told to use.
I can overstep boundaries that in the past I could never traverse. Hell, three years ago, I wouldn’t have been allowed to write this post on your Web site!
But we are in a Brave New World (shout out to Aldous Huxley… one of my inspirations to become a writer in my high school days) where those who adept succeed and those that don’t are left to grumble and subsequently fall behind in the wake of a revolution.
I know that many in the hockey media are opposed to including bloggers in our fraternity. We’ve had several meetings about inviting bloggers into the Professional Hockey Writers Association. I have been a champion of their inclusion. I am often shouted down by the “holier than thou” and the “self-righteous” of information dissemination.
As such, we still sit today as two separate groups. But, I can say there is a groundswell of support starting to form out there. Folks like Rob Rossi in Pittsburgh, Cory Masisak in Washington and Tracey Myers in Chicago are all starting to join the cause.
I remain optimistic that it won’t be long before the vocal minority is in fact a majority, and we can lose the labels of “mainstream” and " blogging subculture" and all share press boxes without resentment.
And then maybe you guys will have your own sources to protect! LOL. Although, I will say, that there have been times that my best source has called me at 7 a.m. to curse me out for something I wrote, so we’re not always THAT protective!
Keep up the good work.
by Anthony SanFilippo on Nov 29, 2010 4:53 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
As you can see… there id evidence of my lack of journalistic schooling…
That should read “nor ever” not “nor never” in the sentence about college classes
… and after my Huxley reference, it should say “those who adapt” not “those who adept”
God thing my editors have journalism degrees!
by Anthony SanFilippo on Nov 29, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
What he said.
Blogging on hockey at The Globe and Mail
by James Mirtle on Nov 29, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
Great to hear from you, Anthony. And thanks for supporting folks like Travis, et. al., and the other great work on SBNation.
OTOH, is it really a good thing to have Rob Rossi on your side?
by Georgia_Flyer on Nov 30, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Depth
The reason I’ve always sought out sites like this, and the Philly.com forum, and CSNPhilly is because you get both info and stories you don’t see in the Papers and their websites.
Inky and DN are getting on board, but if I wanted to know anything from camp, practice, who’s starting/not starting — it was really rare to find that stuff on Philly.com. Seravalli changed that, Timmy P has come a long way by tweeting that kind of stuff. But here (and the Post-Star coverage of Phantoms) is where you really get good information.
Thanks to all you guys at BSH.

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