Roster issues loom as Carcillo, Leighton get their practice on
by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 1:07 PM EST
in Philadelphia Flyers News
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Dan Carcillo returned to the ice today at the Skate Zone, according to Tim Panaccio, Steve Whyno, Sam Carchidi and Dustin Leed, all at the scene in Voorhees. Carcillo didn't wear the white jersey with the red cross on the chest to indicate injury, nor did he wear the yellow "don't touch me!" jersey, but he told the folks in Voorhees that he has yet to be cleared for contact.
At the end of the skate, as is typical with those out of the lineup, Carbomb and Michael Leighton teamed up to work with each other. According to Leed, both looked sharp.
Carcillo is about a week away from his return date while Leighton is a little further off, but the two do share one thing in common. It's not going to be easy for them to get regular playing time when they do return.
We've already been over the issues in goal. Bottom line: someone has to move, or the team will carry three goalies, and since it's unlikely that the team can afford to carry three goalies, in a roster-sense or a salary-sense, somebody will be moving.
A few weeks ago when Carcillo suffered his injury, it seemed like he'd be right back in his spot on the fourth line when he was ready to return. Now, that's not so certain. James van Riemsdyk has turned up his game. Andreas Nodl has turned up his game. Darroll Powe has kept his game highly consistent.
Most challenging to Carbomb's chances of returning to the lineup right away, however, is the play of Nikolay Zherdev. He's ramped up his game quite a bit recently and Peter Laviolette has rewarded him with more playing time and even power play time.
Who comes out of the lineup when Carcillo returns in a week or so? Here's what Lavi told the media, as quoted by Philly Sports Daily:
“There have been guys that have played well. JvR has picked up his game and is playing well, Nodl’s come in and played well,” Laviolette said. “Those things usually sort themselves out. We don’t have any decisions to make just yet. When we do, we’ll make ’em.”
What's the cliche? "Good problem to have?"
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Best case scenario, they drop Shelley and Boosh and use the same lineup with Leighton and Carcillo. But since the team has a hard on for Shelley, I’ll assume a better player will be sent down or waived.
Samesis
Best case scenario?
They’re both traded
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
By drop, I mean get rid of by any means. I assume Boosh will be traded for like a 6th and Carcillo will be a healthy scratch.
Samesis
I’d rather keep Boucher, because he’s the less expensive alternative, plus he doesn’t have this grand idea that he deserves to be the starter after last year. Leighton thinks he’s a starter, Boucher knows he’s a backup. Keep Boucher, trade Leighton, or demote him to Giant, Acme, or Pathmark
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
or demote him to Giant, Acme, or Pathmark
… the anti-Kurt Warner?
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
It could be worse. I could Dane Cook him and send him to a no-named Sam’s Club rip off in the Scranton area. BJs comes to mind
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
The following are facts:
JVR needs playing time in the NHL, and no goon or scrappy player should take that playing time from him.
Nodl needs playing time in the NHL, and no goon or scrappy player should take that away from him.
Try to trade either one or demote them
Boucher needs to be kept because him and Leighton are the same player, with Bouch being the better salary cap choice
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2010 1:26 PM EST reply actions
Try to trade either one or demote them
Wait. I am confused by what you are saying. Are you saying the Flyers should try to trade JvR or Nodl? Unless you are getting an amazing return JvR isn’t going anywhere. Nodl is really starting to show his potential, so I don’t see any reason to ditch him. Also, why would the Flyers demote them if, as you said, they need playing time in the NHL.
The goalie thing is a mess. I would be much more comfortable keeping Leighton, Boucher and Bobrovsky with the Flyers because I am paranoid about Leighton’s inclination toward injury, I don’t want Bobrovsky to be overworked and that I am perfectly comfortable with Boucher and think that he is a wonderful security blanket if things go terrible wrong, like they did last season.
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by Mitchell Green on Nov 29, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I think he means Leighton and Carcillo
DCCGDP 13,28,36
by Cillo stache on Nov 29, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
the try to trade either one of them refers to Carcillo Leighton or Shelley
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, yes that makes sense now. Sorry. I just read that weirdly.
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by Mitchell Green on Nov 29, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I worded it weirdly. Sometimes I write straight from my brain, and even when that happens, I skip some of those thoughts
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Keep Boosh over Leights
I agree they’re basically the same goalie – but if I’m GM I keep the goaltender without back trouble.
Wellwood is still called up. Hasn’t played. How’s he figure into this? Something has to be brewing.
IMO a trade involving Shelley, Carbomb, Walker and/or Leighton, where the Flyers lose some salary or gain picks, is gonna happen when folks are healthy again and have showcased some value, so to speak. Or possible waivers for one of the above.
by Georgia_Flyer on Nov 30, 2010 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
IMO, everything will work itself out… SOMEONE is bound to get hurt, in which then Carcillo will get back in the lineup..
The goalie situation will play out as carrying 3 for the time being, getting Leighton some games, then trading him.
If you keep 3, then who are you sending down from the present lineup?
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Matt Walker.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
This.
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by Mitchell Green on Nov 29, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Could also put Lappy on LTIR if we wanted right?
by philiafan14364 on Nov 29, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Right, but see the discussion below.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Not enough salary cap space. The only way Bobrovsky is here is because Leighton is on LTIR. When Leighton returns, someone (Lappy or Walker) has to go on LTIR or get waived.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
then the no brainer is Walker on LTIR
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, the no-brainer is Walker on waivers.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Listen, I’ve jumped on the Bouch train. There’s no need to undermine the authenticity of my posts with your logical corrections lol
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
91% of people say you should stop spelling it that way.
Otherwise, I apologize. haha
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I love democracy.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Democracy is the worst form of government… except for all the others.
That said, I prefer a republic.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
See, Boucher’s nickname is Boosh. But when I’m using Boucher shorthand, I call him Bouch
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
I fail to see the difference.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
The shorthand version of William is Will, but it’s common for many William’s to have the nickname Bill
William – Will – Bill
Richard – Rich – Dick
Johnathan – John – Jack
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure this works. No one whose name has been shortened from William to Bill or Richard to Dick is comfortable being called Will or Rich, respectively.
Well you wouldn’t call them that. You would refer to them as Will when talking about them to someone else, but to their face, they get a nickname
inter arma enim silent leges
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Nov 29, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I’m not so sure someone properly named William, who goes by Bill, would be referred to as Will by someone. Their name is either William or Bill. Introducing Will brings in a speaker-created shorthand that the individual doesn’t go by, nor will the listener immediately recognize.
If you told me about “Rich”, then I meet a guy named “Dick”, I wouldn’t know they are the same person.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking as someone named Richard, and known as Rich, if you yelled for Dick, I’d assume you were calling someone else
by Pocono Flyers Fan on Nov 29, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
What if they yelled Dick and actually were calling you a Dick?
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
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I’m sure it’s been done….but I refuse to give them the satisfaction by answering
by Pocono Flyers Fan on Nov 29, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Do we know why they haven’t put Lappy on LTIR yet? Honestly, I doubt he plays again this year. Everyone knows that. So why not just put him on LTIR and be done with it? I bet you Homer just thinks that he is being sneaky or something dumb.
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by Mitchell Green on Nov 29, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
There’s no benefit to putting someone on LTIR unless you can’t afford to carry enough healthy players. Keeping Lappy off LTIR allows the Flyers to bank cap space. Keeping Walker on the roster, however, negates that.
Either way, LTIR only helps when you can’t afford to call up someone’s replacement. This was something I didn’t realize at first.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Demote shelly to the phantoms
Trade leighton
by Phuck The Penguins on Nov 29, 2010 1:32 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
OR:
Trade Shelly to the Rangers for their first round pick (if you don’t think they’re dumb enough see: Boogaard, Derek).
Trade Leighton.
by The Gang Wins the Cup on Nov 29, 2010 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Hi Carcillo!!! I fell off the face of the earth for a few days but here I am right in time for a Carcillo story.
Demote Shelly, trade Leighton. In reality, it will probably turn out like so: Leighton starts a few games and bombs, Bobs is starter. Bobs is starter Leighton is backup, Boosh is dumped. Shelly stays in the line up for no goddamn reason, making me sad and angry. Carcillo is scratched for a long time, 3-11 games, and has to work his way back in.
My solution: Carcillo stays with me, Leighton gets dumped. Carcillo will be mine, my one man hockey team.
DCCGDP 13,28,36
By the way, I love the picture. The expressions are priceless, haha
DCCGDP 13,28,36
by Cillo stache on Nov 29, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
JVR and Zherdev are top 9 forwards. They have both shown that, even when playing on the 4th line (and this is no longer the 4th line of the chico and the men era).
We have 2 problems: Shelly and the Flyers’ inability to see that he’s the problem.
With the success the team has had, they probably will not want to mess with something that has been working. The Flyers will move who they can, and in this case I am afraid that it will be easier for them to move Carbomb.
Leighton is not as easy a decision. I believe that Leighton was retained because Jeff Reese likes Leighton and believes he has the potential to continue to improve into a true #1 goalie. Reese and Leighton had a lot of success last year, and continuing to work together.
From a salary cap point of view, the most likely thing is Lappy going LTIR. Considering his situation, it’s probably what makes the most sense and actually reflects the reality of his situation.
I’ll respond here rather than a new comment, but this isn’t directed to you.
LTIR is not at all optimal. For anybody. It should be used only when you need that player’s salary space. Lappy should not go on LTIR until Matt Walker is off the team. Nobody should go on LTIR unless necessary. Honestly, it would have been better for the Flyers to waive Walker as soon as Leighton got hurt, that way the team didn’t waste any space on LTIR. Instead, the Flyers could easily rectify the situation by waiving Walker now.
LTIR should be avoided at all costs.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, thanks for the response. That makes more sense now. Another question though. Why is it that LTIR should only be used when you need that player’s salary? Why does it matter? There is no time limit someone can be on LTIR?
I guess your argument would be so that Homer doesn’t use up the LTIR cushion of that player’s cap hit and then have to deal with making room for his cap hit when he comes back?
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by Mitchell Green on Nov 29, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Placing Lappy on LTIR doesn’t take his salary off the cap. So the Flyers will count his ~$1.1 mil cap hit against their upper limit regardless of whether he’s on LTIR or not. Placing him on LTIR only lets them add a player they otherwise wouldn’t be able to afford.
Bringing that back to the daily calculation: If you put Lappy on LTIR so that you can carry three goalies, the Flyers will be over the salary cap for the entire season. They would simply be granted a cushion at the end of the year up to the total (number of days * the daily cap hit) of those players on LTIR.
So right now, the Flyers have spent ~$19k more than the salary cap. But that’s covered because of the LTIR cushion. So right now, the Flyers would be unable to take on any salary through the end of the year (that changes if they go some days without a player on LTIR this season) because they are technically at the salary cap.
Right now, they are spending ~$4,000 per day over the salary cap. That equals ~$850k over the cap at season’s end – forgiven due to LTIR – but if the Flyers wanted to trade, say Matt Walker for a guy making $2.5 million per year, they can’t due to LTIR. Even though they could have, had they never had a guy go on LTIR throughout the year.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
So in your opinion, do you consider the teams use of the LITR to be another example of cap mismanagement or was it done out of absolute need?
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
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It’s done out of need. The Flyers couldn’t have afforded Bobrovsky without Leighton going on LTIR.
Is it mismanagement? Not really. It’s a solution to mismanagement. And I think Holmgren/the organization has done a good job of using it at little as possible.
When people – including Holmgren – say they want to have some room/flexibility in salary entering the season, it’s because they don’t want to use LTIR just so they can call up Eric Wellwood to play 5 games.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Not a problem.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
The problem is that I think the Flyers believe that Walker could be an injury sub in case one of the top 6 D men go down. I know we have Bartulis, but the club obviously isn’t sold on him in that role or they never would have made the Walker deal in the first place, since they were trying to salary dump.
I disagree with the premise that the simple fact that the Flyers got Walker means they wanted him. It’s highly likely – as many people have said – that Yzerman wouldn’t take on $5.25 million in salary without giving up $1.7 million.
Further, an injury sub should not cost $1.7 million. Ever.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, Geoff. I think that when John Boruk specifically reported that the Lightning facilitated the trade, it gave me the impression that Yzerman wanted to get rid of Walker and Homer just took him.
by DragonGirl0583 on Nov 30, 2010 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
My Solutions
Trade Leighton to……………………….wait for it……………………….Carolina for a 3rd (or a 2nd if Homer is a master horse thief….er, I mean horse trader). Try and trade Walker to anyone for a bag of pucks and a sirloin steak for Bob. If there’s no takers, waive him to the Phantoms and recall him as soon as possible so someone will reclaim him on re-entry.
by Pocono Flyers Fan on Nov 29, 2010 2:04 PM EST reply actions
Ooooh, I do not want anybody claiming anybody on re-entry waivers.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
It’s a last resort for me as well, but I have a hard time that the Flyers will find a trade partner for Walker, and I’d rather waive him then our Latvian Wolf.`
by Pocono Flyers Fan on Nov 29, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Right. But there’s still no reason to bring him up through re-entry.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
If it clears 850K off the books when he’s never going to contibute to the club, it does. I’d much rather do that than just bury him on the Phantoms all year. The young D down there need playing time, even if it creates astronomical minus numbers
by Pocono Flyers Fan on Nov 29, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Well, first, why clear only $850k when you could clear $1.7 million? And if my interpretation of the CBA is correct – which it may or may not be – that’s $850k for three years.
Secondly, burying him on the Phantoms doesn’t necessarily take ice time away from the young D. J.P. Testwuide and Logan Stephenson are AHL veterans, and they aren’t taking ice time away. With four veterans (Testwuide, Stephenson, Jancevski, and Syvret), Boudon and Gustafsson have still played all 23 games. Marshall has played 22. Lehtivuori has played 21.
Not only could Walker just be a healthy scratch, but he could force the prospects to have even more competition (since right now, they’re only really being pushed by Stephenson/Testwuide, two fairly unimpressive players) which makes them better.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Meh……well, if his cap hit will be more than his salary, than bury his ass and cut him free during the summer
by Pocono Flyers Fan on Nov 29, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
His cap hit is more than his salary this year, but not the next two years.
Either way, how do you just “cut him free” during the summer? NHL contracts are guaranteed. You either waive him or trade him. Even if you give him the Huet treatment, I’d imagine you’re still paying his salary.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 29, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
It’s definitely the entire length of the contract. Case in point: Avery is still half price for the Rangers.
by DragonGirl0583 on Nov 30, 2010 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
Really?? I didn’t even look for current examples.
Thanks.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 30, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Yep. Claimed in the first year of a 4 year contract… if you look at the Stars’ team page on Capgeek, you see for 2010-11 and 2011-12:
REENTRY WAIVER LOSSESI’m sure the Rangers are still laughing about it.
Avery, Sean " $1,937,500 $1,937,500
by DragonGirl0583 on Nov 30, 2010 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
oh man, they have to be.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Nov 30, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Here are a couple things that I consider to be facts:
JVR, Nodl, Z and Powe are mainstays on the roster. All 4 of them have ramped up their game offensively and for the most part defensively.
The Flyers do not need two goons(short hand for guys who bring almost nothing to the table in the 5 minutes a game they get except maybe a fight which Carcillo may win and Shelley will probably lose.)
Shelley is not going anywhere, mostly because only Homer would be dumb enough to give him the kind of contract that he did, and thus, no one else wants him.
Bob has earned the right to be the starter this year and possibly going forward. Boucher is a backup, we all know this. Leighton in my opinion is a backup who played exceptionally last year. Either one of Boucher or Leighton has to go. I prefer Leighton goes because Boucher is cheaper, and is only under contract for this year, so if we need to find a cheap back up next year we have the flexibility to do so. Problem is…who wants Leighton and his contract? Besides Homer? Anyone? Bueller?
With that said…Boucher will get traded. Walker will get waived…if not Homer will get shot and lost in all of this will be Carcillo being a healthy scratch until someone gets hurt.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Actually, I think that Boosh’s salary and his acceptance of his role will keep him here. Leighton’s contract is not all that eggregious for a starter in the NHL and I believe will not hinder his ability to be traded, expecially to a team which is hoping to at least make it to the playoffs this year (i.e. Carolina, Colorado….even Ottawa)
by Pocono Flyers Fan on Nov 29, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, I think that Boosh’s salary and his acceptance of his role will keep him here. Leighton’s contract is not all that eggregious for a starter in the NHL
I agree…except Leighton is not a starter in the NHL. Not really. He is a career backup who was thrust into the role of starter when the teams starter and primary backup were hurt.
BOILER UP!! 2010-2011
"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
Very true, but I beleive that carrying your team to the SCF’s gives you enough street cred to convince some GM to drink the Kool-Aid
by Pocono Flyers Fan on Nov 29, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
grammar police here
unlikely that the team cannot afford to carry three goalies
I smell a double negative
Hexwall.
Also just an incorrect sentence. Should be CAN, not CANNOT. Fixed, thanks.
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by Travis Hughes on Nov 29, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
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