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Leighton feels fine, he says, but Holmgren appears to have other plans

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ATLANTIC CITY -- Following today's 4-2 Phantoms loss to the Albany Devils at Boardwalk Hall, Michael Leighton said he felt good and ready to return to the Flyers. (Of course he did, who wants to stay with a team that has three wins and 22 losses?)

"I feel like I did what I had to do here and I feel good," Leighton said.  Paul Holmgren didn't seem so sure about that.

"We've got to get to Philadelphia now and get him checked out by our doctors," Holmgren said. "When the time is right, we'll do what we have to do to get Michael back on our team. Right now is not the time to deal with that. We have some other things we have to deal with -- Michael's injury and making sure he's completely healthy."

If Leighton is indeed ready to go as he says, the CBA says he must come off LTIR and return to the active roster by the end of his six-day conditioning stint. Today is that sixth day. In layman's terms, if he's not a liar, he's a Flyer again tomorrow. Again, Holmgren disagreed.

"I don't have to do anything [Monday]," Holmgren said. "He's on the injured reserve list and until we take him off, we don't really have to do anything."

What's that mean, then? If I'm reading between the lines, I'd say that Holmgren is shooting for a two-game extension on Leighton's conditioning loan. Since he's on LTIR, the NHL must approve such an extension, and the Flyers have to prove that he's not ready to return to the active NHL roster. Holmgren seemed confident that he didn't have to make a move just yet.

If that extension is approved by the NHL, Leighton would be eligible to play in the next two Phantoms games only. It's a one-time extension, so Leighton's going to be a Flyer by next Sunday at the absolute latest. 

Simply put, Holmgren appears to be stalling here. Leighton didn't look sharp in goal today. His notoriously bad rebound control hurt him a few times, including on an absolutely brutal goal in the third period that put Albany up two and essentially sealed a Devils win. It's understandable why Holmgren wouldn't want to mess with a goalie tandem that's working in Philadelphia while Leighton is still struggling in regaining his form with the Phantoms.

Holmgren doesn't think he has to make a move tomorrow, but that all seems contingent on whether or not the NHL believes Leighton is healthy. We'll see what happens in the next 36 hours or so, won't we?

UPDATE 10:51 PM - Chuck Gormley got a little more out of Holmgren tonight.

“We’ll get him checked out (physically),” he said. “I’m not sure if he’s ready for NHL action. Ideally, we’ll try to get him some more games somewhere else.”

Asked what options the Flyers have available to them other than the Phantoms, Holmgren said, “We’ll do what we need to do and you’ll find out then.”

There are only two types of conditioning loans that can be utilized by NHL teams, as outlined in Section 13.8 and 13.9 of the CBA. 13.8 applies to players not on LTIR, while 13.9 applies to players on LTIR. In Leighton's case, then, 13.8 is moot, and we've already been over the outlines governing 13.9.

If Homer has something up his sleeve to get Leighton some more games beyond what we've already discussed re: two-game extension of his current conditioning loan, I'm not sure what it could possibly be.

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1. Purchase pipe
2. Visit Leighton
3. ????
4. Profit

What can't Giroux do?

by tmurder on Dec 5, 2010 7:38 PM EST reply actions  

Need a catchy tune as well there gnome

G, the second coming of Foppa.

by JerseyDriver on Dec 5, 2010 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Any truth to the rumor Tonya Harding was seen at the game?

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think Homer wants to publicly admit he has few options, but it seems he has few options. Certainly Leights didn’t do much to improve his value through his performance this past weekend.

by memphisbrando on Dec 5, 2010 7:40 PM EST reply actions  

He does have one option that bsh.com failed to mention, and that is send Lieghts down to the minors and let him stay there till next season.

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

We’ve been over his options in about 9 other stories. That wasn’t the point of this story.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

True, but I was pointing out to memphisbrando that Homer does have some un-appealing options. I believe your logic in your other 9 articles, Homer waives Walker and keeps 3 goalies for awhile, but Homer does have other less appealing options.

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe this is payback for Leighton lying about not being wheelchair bound when he signed his new contract.

Mourning Gagne forever.

by ToddtheFox on Dec 5, 2010 7:42 PM EST reply actions  

That’s what i was thinking. Holmgren’s giving him the old middle finger.

What can't Giroux do?

by tmurder on Dec 5, 2010 8:28 PM EST up reply actions  

No, the payback to Leights is when he gets waived down to the Phantoms for the rest of the season.

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

… and don’t count on that happening, by the way. Homer is mad at Leights over the injury, but he’s not dumb enough to waive him.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

The waiving itself wouldn’t be dumb (granted, there are much smarter moves to make). The re-entry or waiving with trade offers, however…

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2010 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, they’re one in the same as far as I’m concerned though, because waiving Leighton now screws you later if/when an injury happens.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Johan Backlund baby!

Oh, wait. Good point.

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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess they could call up Riopel in the odd case that there’s an injury at the NHL level and Leights/Backlund are both with the Phantoms, right?

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Riopel isn’t on an NHL deal, so they’d have to sign him first. Judging by CapGeek, they only have one contract left in the 50 limit. Two if Tyler Hostetter’s contract slides (which I thought it already did, but am apparently wrong.)

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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Right on, I forgot he didn’t have an NHL deal.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

There’s always Brian Stewart!

Speaking, did he get new pads? Ones that aren’t puke green?

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Where have you gone, Sebastien Caron?
Our goalie carousel turns its lonely eyes to you…
Woo woo woo.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Dec 5, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Sabatien Caron can back him up.

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Isn’t he in Greenville? I didn’t notice him today, either way.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Greenville Road Warriors list Riopel as inactive on their website, I just checked.

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Riopel is with the Phantoms. Stewart is with Greenville. I think, could be wrong.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

For as long as Leighton is with the Phantoms, Stewart will be in Greenville. But with Backlund out for “who knows how long”, Stewart will be the backup unless someone clears waivers and is sent down.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 6, 2010 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

haha +1

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s way too true.

#1 Flyers Fan in New York

Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.

by Lindbergh 31 on Dec 6, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

They just shipped the tape from the game and the league approved it! Sarcasm

Flyers fan since 1974.

by ERH on Dec 5, 2010 8:00 PM EST reply actions  

Didn’t Homer make a lot of “I don’t have to do anything right this moment” type statements right as he was trying to move Gagne? I’m just drawing a parallel, it’s speculation of course….

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 5, 2010 8:38 PM EST reply actions  

Don’t recall that, but it may have something I missed along the way

G, the second coming of Foppa.

by JerseyDriver on Dec 5, 2010 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Sort of, Homer claimed he didn’t have to make any cap moves, which is what Gagne’s “trade” was.

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that’s what I was getting at. The “No, we’re fine, we’ve got time to get the cap straightened out” kind of stuff. I just can’t seem to find any of the quotes of that even though I’m searching for them

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 5, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ll tell you what. He was downright irritated when I walked up and asked the question. He was doing a fluffy thing with NBC 40 on hockey in Atlantic City, and I walked up and asked that question and he was not happy.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m having a really hard time picturing a fluffy hockey piece on NBC 40, but I’m going to have to chalk that up to the fact that everywhere we lived we always had both NBC 40 and NBC 3/10 available at the same time.

I could see him being irritated, but I can think of a lot of possibilities why it bothered him and it makes me wonder which one of those options is true.

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 5, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait… were you calling him on the fact that he did the same thing before moving Gagne, or were you questioning his judgment that he “didn’t have to do anything right now”?

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Dec 5, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Travis pulling the Gagne card would be hilarious!

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I just asked “what happens tomorrow?” and that seemed to be enough to piss him off. He responded with the “we dont have to do anything” and I said “but the conditioning assignment ends tomorrow…” and he said “well he’s on LTIR” and then the NBC dude cut me off before I could continue.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I see. DragonGirl’s post (to which I assume you were responding in the first place) threw me off as to what the nature of your question was. Thanks for clearing that up.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Dec 5, 2010 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Just consider yourself lucky he didn’t forearm shiv you into the wall, and walk away after admonishing you to “pass the mic”.

by Gizmoitus on Dec 6, 2010 1:52 AM EST up reply actions  

haha, was he not doing media availability?

Either way, great job.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not really sure. I was talking to Luke Pither and I saw him out in the hall with an NBC mic in his face, so I scurried over.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Travis or Geoff (or somebody who knows) – what is the procedure to get Lieghts 2 more games with the Phantoms. Who does Homer have to call, who makes the decision, how do the doctors fit in (does the league take the word of the Flyers or do they call the doctors themselves). Can somebody explain the process?

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

This was a report from below, I see your response below and thanks.

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

You ditched Luke Pither?? How rude!

I bet he just didn’t think anybody who likes the Flyers would subject themselves to his neglected AHL hockey team. So he was surprised anybody had an actual hockey question, let alone a “I clearly read the CBA and know what I’m saying” question.

Again, good work.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, he was in his jock and clearly wanted to leave anyway. I don’t think he cared, haha.

I’ll tell you what, though. You’d think that after losing so much, it’d kind of just become the norm with the Phantoms. They were all visibly depressed in the locker room afterwards. A few guys were still slumped in their stalls with blank stares on their faces when I walked in… and that was a good 5-7 minutes after the final horn. It’s nice to see that they aren’t just mailing it in and that they care, because honestly, I think it’d be pretty easy to not give a shit at this point.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s good to know. Did you take a picture of DSOD for Ben?

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t see him after the game, actually. I think he snuck out when I was talking to Leighton. I wanted to talk to him, too. Oh well.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep, I remember that

by phinally on Dec 5, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Have you seen even seen NBC40 News? It is all fluff. The “What’s happening on town” pieces are shot with a cell phone.

Travis – Homer asking the league for 2 more games, how does that work? Who does he call on Monday morning (or today) to ask, and who makes that decision to allow Lieghts 2 more games. Doe the games have to be the next Phantom’s games, or can they ask for 2 more Phantoms games and play them next week? Is a Flyers doctor involved in the decision, meaning does he have any say in asking for the extra two games?

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 9:16 PM EST reply actions  

I thought the NHL got doctors involved that confirmed health stipulations, but idk how they could do that in a short amount of time

by phinally on Dec 5, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Here’s what the CBA says…


If the Club determines that it needs more time to assess the Player’s fitness to play,
the Club may file a written request by facsimile with the Commissioner’s Office, with a
copy to the NHLPA, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereof, to extend the Loan for an
additional two (2) games. The Commissioner, upon good cause, may approve the onetime
extension. The Commissioner’s approval shall not be unreasonably withheld.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks.

Assuming Homer does this, does Lieghts have to play the very next two games, or can the Flyers wait a week?

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m almost positive its the next two Phantoms games (Friday, Saturday) whether he plays or not. He could ride the pine next weekend, even, and he’d still have to come back to the Flyers on Sunday.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Got it, that was exactly my question.

I assume the Commissioner’s office and the NHLPA have the Flyer’s written request on their fax machine already.

by NickFotiu4HOF on Dec 5, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions  

All fairness aside, if Bobs wasn’t playing this well there wouldn’t be a Leights article about him needing 2 more days.

I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.

by Christopher A on Dec 5, 2010 9:19 PM EST reply actions  

But

We’re lucky Bobs saved us and that Leights got hurt. He was a good piece of duct tape last year, but that’s it. He got paid very well for it now but we do not need his services or five-hole and rebounds.

by phinally on Dec 5, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I do also feel mean saying that so, to be fair, it’s up to him to prove his skills. If he can play like he did for us last year, I would be happy with him. In that case we have to worry about Boosh and he hasn’t done anything wrong so it’s a big cluster…

by phinally on Dec 5, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Your right Leights was duct tape let him go

MarioD’d

I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.

by Christopher A on Dec 5, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

If you mean truth’d then congrats you are right. Leighton is not a good goaltender, and he is vastly overpaid.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Dec 5, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

What, are you kidding me? The pessimism stems from reality

by phinally on Dec 5, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

He was but I do think he is better than Boosh over the long run. but I was just saying that a lot of MarioD’s shit last year was about him being a guess Duct Tape and not to place the future on him. That is what I meant. Just the same if Leights was out and all we had was Boosh and the other guy, can’t spell his name, we would be wanting Leights back. All I meant was if Bobs sucked ass we wouldn’t be having these posts.

I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.

by Christopher A on Dec 6, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s an entirely separate issue. And I think there’d still be an article, honestly.

by Snevik on Dec 5, 2010 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep, I’ve gotten a few emails tonight on this, stuff like “why do we care about Leighton? We have BOB!”

Not that I have to point out why this is important, regardless of Bob, but I mean… obviously it is, regardless of the current goalie situation in Philly.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

haha, oh people.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
SB Nation Philly - Associate Editor

by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2010 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

You’ve had an article on every minor roster move over the past two years. Including a few hypothetical/Calvert related ones.

by Snevik on Dec 5, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha, Geoff gets the blame on that second one, but every little roster move is important these days thanks to the cap.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 6, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not sure, are you complaining?

And yes, I take full responsibility on the Calvert one. But if you ever see that kid play, trust me, you’ll a) know his name; and b) understand why I have a crush on him. He’s a mini-Mike Richards.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 6, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not complaining at all. I’m saying it’s both a good thing and an explanation for why there’d be at article about Leighton regardless.

But I am making fun of your Calvert love.

by Snevik on Dec 6, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

haha, Fair enough.

Still, I can’t wait until you watch Matt Calvert play. Not only will you immediately know he’s playing, but you’ll understand my obsession.

Until then, I can withstand your fun.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 6, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

At first I was of the belief that we should just send Leights down to spend the season with the Phantoms. Naturally, I saw the Bobrovsky/Boucher tandem doing pretty well together and figured that there’d be no need for Leights. As the old saying goes, “You play for the crest on the front, not the name on the back.” This team owes Leighton nothing. What happened last season is in the past, and moving forward from this point the team needs to do what is in it’s best interest as a whole.

But then I got to thinking about things: Bobrovsky has played, at most, 35 games in a season. Boucher hasn’t played more than 40 in a season since 2003-04 (unless you count the 42 with the Phantoms in 2007-08. That doesn’t count the postseason. Frankly, I don’t think either has enough in the tank to carry this team all the way.

Of course, neither does Leighton. So when you think about it, neither Bobrovsky nor Boucher nor Leighton can do it single-handedly. But together—perhaps we’re onto something.

I know Homer likes the whole “8 defenseman” thing, but we’ve got Bartulis sittin’ around growing moss in the press box while Walker recouperates. I believe that sending Walker down to the Phantoms for the season is in the team’s best interest to allow Leights to stay up with the Flyers and take some of the workload off of Boucher and (more importantly) Bobrovsky’s shoulders.

by Timoner on Dec 5, 2010 9:52 PM EST reply actions  

LOYALTY!

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Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 5, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Loyalty : CBA concerns :: THE CODE : actually playing hockey.

by Snevik on Dec 5, 2010 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

You can’t keep a guy because of what he did. You’re right, the Flyers owe Leighton squat. If that’s the way the N.H.L. worked, Gagne would still be here.

by Flyersfan94 on Dec 5, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Waive Shelley (who cannot play or win a fight) and Walker (who simply can’t play). This frees up money and clears the ice for Carcillo to play on the 4th line. They can carry the 3 goalies to see how healthy Leighton really is before a move is made. They can also extend the contract of Leino with the money saved! The 2 guys I am suggesting to go have contributed ZERO to the team so far this year!

Flyers fan since 1974.

by ERH on Dec 5, 2010 10:03 PM EST reply actions  

Shelley is not dead weight. We can’t be blind to that fact. He has been fine on our fourth line as hard as it is to admit. I’d rather Carcillo be there, but Shelley isn’t hurting us. Walker, you are correct.

by phinally on Dec 5, 2010 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I’m not feeling the whole “Shelley is useless” vibe here.

Shelley is overpaid, particularly in the hard-salary-cap world of Today’s Game.

But he’s done everything we’ve asked him to do. Not his fault he’s making $1.1 million a year.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Dec 5, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

But he’s done everything we’ve asked him to do.

I guess no one ever asked him to actually win when he fights, then. Haha

Of the few things Shelley has been asked to do, if he completely fails as a fighter (which he has so far), I guess that is best situation for the Flyers. It means that he hasn’t been a complete defensive liability (he is actually a +1) and is not costing the team goals, which is really all you can ask from a 4th line.

I would still waive him in a heartbeat, no questions asked . . .

Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter

by Mitchell Green on Dec 6, 2010 12:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Would Carcillo actually do better?

by phinally on Dec 6, 2010 12:31 AM EST up reply actions  

He would try. Shelly just gets beat up, but Carbomb will try to at least throw a few punches in, regardless of size or weightclass. Shelly is a “legit heavyweight” which he isn’t doing a good job of and he fights down a wieght class mostly and still gets beat. Carcillo will fight anyone, which is some peoples problem with him, but wins more than Shelly.
Shelly has been an ok 4th liner, but lacks much talent

Carcillo's number one lover fan and defender

by Cillo stache on Dec 6, 2010 8:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m really not looking at their fighting b/c that isn’t the only thing that these players do regardless of what some of you think. Who is the better fourth line player is what I’m analyzing. And I think it’s closer than people want to admit

by phinally on Dec 6, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s really not, Dan Carcillo is clearly better than Jody Shelley in every way imaginable other than maybe fighting, and given Shelley’s penchant for getting his Riley Cote on that might be closer than most people think.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Dec 6, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I love you right now. Except I do feel he is better at fighting, but issall good!

Carcillo's number one lover fan and defender

by Cillo stache on Dec 6, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Considering that Jody Shelley is a freaking penalty machine….. yes Carbomb would do much, much better.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Dec 6, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m just playing devils advocate, b/c as I’ve stated many times, I want Carcillo in. But you cannot act like Carcillo doesn’t take a ton of penalties warranted or not. He’s is a penalty machine as well. The differences are Shelley seems to(or must b/c he’s still here) provide leadership and doesn’t make mistakes on the ice. Carcillo provides more energy, is quicker, but may make more mistakes.

by phinally on Dec 6, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

No, that’s just not true. Dan Carcillo draws twice as many penalties as he takes this year which is actually down from last year. He takes about half a penalty per 60 minutes.

Jody Shelley takes 3 times more penalties than he draws he leads the team in penalties taken per 60 minutes by a wide margin, loses almost all his fights and has no discernible hockey talent.

It’s not close, it never has been.

Jody Shelley takes about 2 more Penalties per 60 minutes than Dan Carcillo.

The bottom line is that he is not a better or more skilled hockey player, and he is failing to live up to a outdated and quite frankly borderline useless role. If he was drawing penalties and not taking too many then yeah I’d be fine with him but he is giving out PPs to the other team like freaking candy.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Dec 6, 2010 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

This is all true.

Mourning Gagne forever.

by ToddtheFox on Dec 6, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

My Solution:

Waive Walker. Bring Leighton back, let him play in 15 straight games, re-injure himself for the rest of the season and let Bobs/Boosh finish the season.

(/sarcasm??)

by KornontheKobb on Dec 5, 2010 10:07 PM EST reply actions  

Then, in the offseason, trade Leighton for a low-level prospect whose name rhymes with “Matt Walker” (Pat Faulkner?) and a 4th round pick.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Dec 5, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

http://www.hockey-reference.com/player_search.cgi?search=pat+faulkner

Damn.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Back to the drawing board!

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Dec 5, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Or just a William Faulkner paperback and future considerations.

by Snevik on Dec 5, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Original hardcover of As I Lay Dying and a 4th Round Pick.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Dec 5, 2010 10:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Leighton isn’t worth that much. Maybe a paperback. Or maybe a 7th and a trip to Oxford MS? (home of William Faulkner!)

Thinking about asking my employer for an 11-year contract.
Trade Leighton.

by Bud in TN on Dec 6, 2010 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

I think that waiving Walker and maybe seeing how Leighton is is an idea, but there is just no place for him. I’m all for the old motto “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it” and I think Boosh and Bob are just fine so throwing in Leighton may create a problem. Since there seem to be no more options after this extension, I really don’t know what he can do.

If he re-injures himself or gets a new injury does he have to come off of the LTIR or no matter what he has to come off?

#1 Flyers Fan in New York

Good bye #12, you will always bleed Orange and Black.

by Lindbergh 31 on Dec 6, 2010 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

For all Leighton didn’t look too sharp, it was a fun time and a good atmosphere. It was fun to get to cheer for DSOD and watch Rinaldo hit literally everything on the ice and see Bernie “coach” mites during the intermissions. Good to hear the Phantoms get louder cheers than “our” Albany Devils, too.

by ohnickels on Dec 5, 2010 10:25 PM EST reply actions  

Gormley got a bit more out of Homer over the phone, apparently. Not much, but its something. Updated the post with it.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 5, 2010 11:02 PM EST reply actions  

Maybe this has already been said but . . .
Ideally, we’ll try to get him some more games somewhere else.

When Homer says “somewhere else” hopefully he means trading Leighton to an entirely different NHL franchise so we don’t have to ever talk about his poor rebound control and gaping five hole again. . .

Formerly known as "flyrsfrk05"
@Mitchman88 on Twitter

by Mitchell Green on Dec 5, 2010 11:50 PM EST reply actions  

Travis, in the course of you covering this issue, what do you think the overall attitude towards Leighton in the inner Flyers circle is? I know that a lot of us, as fans, seem to not want him anymore despite the fact that he did take us to the Stanley Cup Finals (and then let in that Patrick Kane shot…) Even in the offseason a lot of us just wanted to ditch him, which is pretty unusual for a SCF goalie. But do you think the upper management look at him from the same perspective?

Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.

by PursuitOfLappyness on Dec 6, 2010 1:18 AM EST reply actions  

I get a general sense (and it’s nothing BUT a general sense, so please don’t read into it any more than that) that they’re kind of pissed at him over the injury thing this summer. If that’s true, I think literally anything is possible with regards to Leighton. They could waive him, trade him, or just forget about it and make him the starter again. Who the hell knows?

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 6, 2010 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

OK thanks.

Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.

by PursuitOfLappyness on Dec 6, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel kinda bad saying this but I like Bobs better….loose Leights

Carcillo's number one lover fan and defender

by Cillo stache on Dec 6, 2010 7:48 AM EST reply actions  

I am in total agreement. Bob has better rebound control than Leights plus he’s quicker. Have to stick with BOB!!!!

by Giroux Rules on Dec 6, 2010 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I am very conflicted. I have a soft spot for Leighton. It’s a small one, but its there. I think that in the back of my mind I hope he comes back and provides solid goaltending, and adds to the good tandem we have already with BOB and Boosh. I can"t figure out why Boosh is always getting crapped on. Consumate teamate, provides good work in relief, and doesnt cost all that much. Its like he is a throw away player that you keep just because you MIGHT need him. It’s like he is the chubby fat kid, with the lisp and pigeon toed, who is alway the last to get picked for dodgeball, who always gets drilled in the face and laughed at, but always gives 100%, has the rocket arm and gets the job done, but gets no respect . Boosh does his job. Granted he isnt a #1, but is Leighton worth #1 pay, or for that matter, a #1 goalie. I can pretty much assume that everyone here is in agreement that BOB isnt a flash in the pan. So we just foresake whats working, and throw Leighton in there, drop Boosh to the Phantoms and what, HOPE for the best? I here alot about BOB not being conditioned for the long haul. I honestly believe that he is a much better option “TIRED” than Leighton is “HEALTHY”. This is a good problems to have I suppose. We do have dead weight in Walker, with adequate relief on defense in the Latvian Wolf and 2nd times a charm man Syvret, that free’s up CAP space, with dumping one or both (Leighton-Walker) gives us options to pick up a true winger to compliment a potent offense, that is in need of that “FINAL PIECE”. As a fan, this kind of stuff isnt that big a deal, because we"re winning, so LETS GO FLYERS, keep winning and this BS can stay in the shadows till Homer screws it up totally, or fixes it. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, PAY VILLE LEINO. Just sayin.

Leino = $$$

by flyerfreek on Dec 6, 2010 9:53 AM EST reply actions  

Paddock speaks

From a DN article today:

“Mike was down on his conditioning and there’s really no decision that needs to be made right now,” Paddock said. “We’ll bring him back to Philadelphia, there’s some issues that we need to look at with his injury. We’ll get him checked out by our doctors thoroughly and we’ll work from that once we get that information.”

That first sentence is just so completely, factually wrong.

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by Travis Hughes on Dec 6, 2010 10:13 AM EST reply actions  

Wait…the Flyers F.O is putting a spin on an injury?

Never.

BOILER UP!! 2010-2011

"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard

by EREX21 on Dec 6, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Interesting, because unless I’m reading something into it, yesterday, Leights says he’s pretty much ready to go, then today he’s backed off and said I may need more time, may not be 100%. Is that someone telling him what to say or is it me?

G, the second coming of Foppa.

by JerseyDriver on Dec 6, 2010 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I would be willing to accept that he is spewing the company line.

BOILER UP!! 2010-2011

"You can commit no mistake and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life." - Jean-Luc Picard

by EREX21 on Dec 7, 2010 7:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I liked the waive shelly/walker save Leino option. I do think that Leights is a rental goalie and keeping all three could help us win two more games this year, that is until Leights gets hurt again in 3 weeks. Plus we have to extend Leino his beard is awesome!

by sjuhawks42 on Dec 6, 2010 11:53 AM EST reply actions  

But Walker makes more than Leighton so all we would need to do right now is waive Walker. Leino does not need to be “saved” right now. Why is that imperative at this point in the season? We have him right now, nobody else can sign him.

by phinally on Dec 6, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, basing this years team on next years hypothetical signings is completely pointless.

by phinally on Dec 6, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

It is that kind of thinking that got us into salary cap trouble in the first place.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Dec 6, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

While I agree with you entirely, I’d just like to clarify that sjuhawks’ implication is not accurate: Waiving “Shelley/Walker” doesn’t allow the club to “save” or “extend” Leino unless another team claims Shelley/Walker.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 6, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

So stupid question then. Most of the time you have a contract, and you need/want to get out of it, you pay it off, or pay a penalty and it’s done. So is there something in the CBA that prevents the Flyers from doing just that? Pay out the contracts, say Leights and Shelly, let them go, and you have your cap space.

G, the second coming of Foppa.

by JerseyDriver on Dec 6, 2010 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, there’s buyouts, but those don’t come off the cap completely…. At the risk of making the explanation too simple, they basically stretch 2/3 of the cap hit over double the length of the contract (in most cases, which includes Leights, Shelley and Walker). But the normal window during which you can do a buy-out is over the summer, anyway. There’s a lot of crazy rules with buy-outs, so it’s far easier to just link to CapGeek’s buyout calculator breakdowns for Leighton and Shelley, since they’ve already done the work.

Basically, it’s not a good idea for this team, when we’re in a position to be able to afford their actual salaries in the minors if they get waived. It’s true that we can’t sign someone like Leino to an extension if those guys get waived because their salaries are still “tagged” for next year, but it gets them completely off the cap in the current year. A buy-out doesn’t help us for this year like waiving them would, the buy-out cap penalty would still reduce the available cap space to spend on other players, and they’d be saddled with the cap penalties for twice as long as they’d be paying them to play in Adirondack. Of course, the ideal situation is for them to get waived and picked up on the way down (where the other team would take their entire contract), or a trade that doesn’t result in us taking one-way salary back. Then we would get space for both this year and next.

phinally did have one good point up there, that as much as we want to lock up Leino right now, the bigger issue with him is that we make sure he has good faith that we want him back. For one thing, he’s going to be trying to earn an extension, so there is the theory that some guys play better when they’re trying to get a new contract. Secondly, as long as negotiations continue, nothing prevents us from signing Leino’s extension say after the trade deadline, at which time maybe we can make some room for an extension. Worst case scenario, he can be signed first thing on July 1st. The rules for a new SPC are completely different from those regarding an extension signed before the season ends. It’s not time to panic yet; we have to see how Homer does getting out of the current mess this week before we start having anxiety attacks over Leino’s new contract.

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 7, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the info

G, the second coming of Foppa.

by JerseyDriver on Dec 7, 2010 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

No I know, because Walker and Leighton’s cap hits still count towards next year. When would we be able to sign him and go over the cap if necessary btw?

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Dec 7, 2010 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

After the draft, before the start of free agency (if they want no one else negotiating against them). Similar to when they re-signed Leights last year, same time frame. They can be over the cap until the end of September I believe, and send players up and down without having to go through waivers as well, but I’m not certain of the exact date.

Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Dec 7, 2010 9:22 AM EST up reply actions  

The 10% off-season bonus cushion where the cap can be exceeded to make roster moves is defined as July 1st until the last day of Training camp in 50.5.c.(B):

Nevertheless, in order to ensure that Clubs may have sufficient time and flexibilit y to plan their rosters during
the off-season, the Upper Limit shall be temporarily raised
by ten (10) percent to permit Clubs addit ional flexibilit y
with their Averaged Club Salaries during the period from
July 1 unt il and including the last day of Training Camp.
On the day following the last day of Training Camp, the
Upper Limit shall again be lowered to the level as
calculated in Section 50.5(b), and all Clubs must once
again be in compliance wit h the Upper Limit from the day
following the last day of Training Camp until and including
June 30.

They definitely extended Leighton in that window between the Draft and July 1st last year, but I’m not sure they went over the cap to do so, or that they would even have had the option to do so if they wanted to. Rather, I’d speculate that the more likely explanation is that on June 30th they had more cap space for the current year (2009-10) because they knew which performance bonuses had been earned and which ones had not, and the unearned bonuses came off the 2009-10 cap. The formula for calculating how much room you have to sign an extension uses the amount of space available in the current year, so those bonuses falling off could actually allow extra room for an extension.

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 7, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t believe they went over the cap to do so, just wanted to bring up the fact that the Flyers could do that if needed.

Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Dec 7, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I was going from Ed’s original question, because he asked when we could go over. It may not be what you meant to say, but I interpreted your response as an answer that they could go over right after the draft.

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 7, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Ah got ya, no, not at the draft.

Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Dec 7, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

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