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Around SBN: Bob Sapp Denies Throwing Fights

A Possible Zherdev Trade

Nikolay Zherdev have been anything but a success for the Flyers this season. He started off in the pre-season playing well, but has tailed off over the coarse of the season. After starting the season playing on a promising top-line with James van Riemsdyk and Claude Giroux, Zherdev now finds himself alongside Blair Betts and Jody Shelley on the fourth line, with the occasional shift with Giroux and Jeff Carter. He has very little power play time as well. He finds himself in Laviolette's dog house more times than not, and communicates very little (occording to Tim Panaccio and Bill Meltzer) with the team besides Oskars Bartulis. So I thought of trade that seems logical to me.

Star-divide

To Washington Capitals: Nik Zherdev, To Philadelphia Flyers: Keith Aucoin and late round pick.

Reasons why this deal would be good:

-Zherdev would fit perfectly with the Caps. They play that type of European hockey that Zherdev is suited for.

-The Caps may be looking for depth scoring. With the departure of Tomas Fleischman, the Caps may looking for some extra help down the depth chart. It's not like the Caps are desperate for scoring (as we all know), but Zherdev would be a good fit on the Caps second line with Alexander Semin and Brooks Laich. Zherdev is a better suited second liner than Jason Chimera, Eric Fehr and Matt Hendricks, whom the Caps currently are rotating as the sixth forward in the top six.

-Aucoin would be a great asset to the Flyers' system. Aucoin is having solid season in the A.H.L., having scored 18 points in 11 games and being a plus 7 with the Hershey Bears this season. He could stay in the A.H.L. and help a desperate Adirondack Phantoms' team.

-This move would give the Flyers cap and roster space. With Zherdev gone, the Flyers would have room to insert Dan Carcillo into the line-up full time. Eric Wellwood would also have a chandce for more playing time with the Flyers, who was impressive during his short time with us. The extra cap-space would give Holmgren some breathign room with a descent amount of money under the cap.

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Two reasons why I think this is a bad trade.

1. As you said, Zherdev may be a perfect fit for the Capitals. I don’t think it would be smart to make a trade with the Capitals that would make them a tougher team to beat in the playoffs.

2. Zherdev can still score goals for the Flyers. He has 8 goals and I am not ready to write him off for the year.

by 6612 on Dec 8, 2010 1:15 AM EST reply actions  

After acquiring Denis Hamel, another mostly-career AHLer in his early 30s to help stabilize the offense, and Dan Jancevski, a 29 year old most-career AHLer on D, why do we another early 30s mostly-career AHLer on the forward lines? Yes, Adirondack needs offensive help now, but we also need legit prospects who might make it to the NHL someday to restock our system and help with the salary cap down the line.

Z is a rental anyway, and while he may be stubborn and difficult when it comes to playing the system, I’m willing to give him a little bit more time. If this continues, try to get rid of him a few weeks before the trade deadline. But I want to get something of value back, not a guy who can only help the Phantoms but never legitimately play for the Flyers.

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 8, 2010 2:00 AM EST reply actions  

Hershey and Washington agreed that it would help the young players to see through deep playoff runs and/or championships at the AHL level.

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by red army line on Dec 8, 2010 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Very true, but for that to actually help our young players, we’d need to have enough guys down there that we would want to get that experience. We’re lacking on quality prospects that would be developed and matured by a deep AHL playoff run, so having veterans help us get that run doesn’t accomplish much without the good prospects.

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 8, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

To begin, the capitals do not need a winger. They need a second line center. Does Zherdev fit that category at all? No. Why would they want to add another winger? He also would not fit where you say he would because Laich and Semin are not natural centers at all. If they were, their 2C problem would be solved already and Zherdev certainly isn’t filling it.

Next, we do not need/want Aucoin at all. He would just be adding another mismatched puzzle piece to the dismal phantoms. If anything, they need young prospects, not old players that will never make it to the nhl.

I just cannot understand how getting rid of Zherdev is a #1, #2, or #3 solution. He has 8 goals and 9 points in only 26 games played. That’s projected to 25.2 goals on the year assuming he doesn’t keep hitting the post. So why would that be an easy solution at all.

Further, when someone gets hurt in the top-9, who do we have to move up there right now? I know, I know: Zherdev, Carcillo, and Wellwood in that order. Out of those three, who is actually a top-9 player? I know again: Zherdev. An injury is going to happen, what don’t people realize about that?

Continuing, Zherdev makes 2 million dollars. That is cheap. He is worth more and arbitration said so with the Rangers. We got him cheap and he is a great player to have especially when we’re trying to ice the best team possible. People also have this grand idea of stocking the farm at his disposal because other teams will want him for a cup run. WE want him for a cup run. We would never get equal value in a trade so why do people fail to see our playoff run? It does not make any sense at all to get rid of him.

Again,
Who has contributed the least to this team?
Walker.

How much does Walker make?
1.7million.

Regarding capspace, in your eyes someone who will contribute 20+ goals but makes 300k more is the better move than someone who has done literally and absolutely nothing. That’s nonsensical.

by phinally on Dec 8, 2010 2:08 AM EST reply actions  

Also, if you think Carcillo should be playing, why not just suggest sit Z and play Carcillo without a trade? If there is a trade, we need someone who can play in the nhl or early picks/prospects. Wellwood shouldn’t be sitting in the pressbox either, he needs to play.

by phinally on Dec 8, 2010 2:37 AM EST up reply actions  

What does Carcillo bring to our table?

Man Crushin on Bob since 2010

by orangeandblack20 on Dec 8, 2010 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

a terrible ’stache

by hartmanzord on Dec 8, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Power play opportunities.

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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 8, 2010 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

In fairness to Z, he has not done poorly drawing penalties as Todd pointed out in the other thread.

Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Dec 8, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Geoff, you should know better than to say power play opportunities. I should have asked what does Carcillo bring to the table with respect to Zherdev. Carcillo draws 1.1/60 and takes .5/60. Zherdev takes .8, which is worse, but he draws 2.1 which is almost twice as good.

Man Crushin on Bob since 2010

by orangeandblack20 on Dec 8, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t know this was a Carcillo v. Zherdev debate. I thought it was simply a “what does Carcillo bring”.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Dec 8, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I would compare Zherdev’s last full season to Carcillo’s last full season if you want a better comparison. To use a quarter of a year where Carcillo has been injured is not particularly a good comparison.

Carcillo’s value is that he draws penalties, get opponents off their game, provides energy, and drops the gloves when needed. That was the question. Carcillo and Zherdev and particularly easily comparable players, but Z has done a good job in the penalties drawn category this year.

Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Dec 8, 2010 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

A small girls happiness?

Seriously:
Energy
someone who can actually legitimatly fight (coughShellys a failurecough)
Size and Grit!!
Puck movement
Blocked shots in the same way Giroux scored
has the ability to make intelligent plays

Carcillo's number one lover fan and defender

by Cillo stache on Dec 8, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know if Carcillo is a better fighter than Shelley

by ryan1 on Dec 13, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

They should fight to settle it.

Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!

by hintzy64 on Dec 18, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

shelley would knock him out. carcillos a middleweight

by phinally on Dec 18, 2010 6:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not suggesting this. Flyersfan94 has an elaborate plan, that I’m sure you read because it’s this thread, about eventually getting Carcillo in the lineup. I was further proving his/her plan over-the-top and fallacious.

by phinally on Dec 8, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The ability to win some fights, and the ability lose a fight without entirely losing our respect? Oh wait, I guess that’s an argument for putting Carcillo in the lineup, but not an argument for sitting Z. Definitely drawn penalties, like Geoff said, he’s just gotta be careful not to be too obvious.

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 8, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

See my post above, Zherdev is 2.1 to .8 while Carcillo is only 1.1 to .8.

Man Crushin on Bob since 2010

by orangeandblack20 on Dec 8, 2010 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

He has played less games than Z.

SKEWED SAMPLE SIZE

Carcillo's number one lover fan and defender

by Cillo stache on Dec 8, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Can they just “dump Walker?” kick him off the team and not pay him? Is that possible? We all want to dump Walker and we have all said it multiple times, so I don’t know why you keep saying it. My feelings towards dumping Z are this: yes he can score and has talent, but doesn’t fit. Why pay a spotty player who doesn’t fit in instead of Ville, who scores and passes all the time and does fit on the team. Z doesn’t ever seem to want to pass and is rathur stuck up if the rumours are true. Do we want that?

Carcillo's number one lover fan and defender

by Cillo stache on Dec 8, 2010 7:53 AM EST up reply actions  

NHL contracts are guaranteed, so it’s not like you can cut him (in the offseason) like the NFL or release him like the MLB. The only real option is a buyout, and that incurrs a cap penalty. To be able to get him completely off the books for next year, we’ve gotta trade him or get another team to claim him on waivers.

But you’d dump Z for no return, too? Sure he doesn’t fit here, but wouldn’t you want to get value in the trade, even if it’s a decent prospect?

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 8, 2010 8:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Z and Leino aren’t likely in conflict. Yes, it makes more sense to pay Ville, but we don’t have to do that until next year. Zherdev is just signed for this year, so if he doesn’t fit in by the end of the season he won’t be brought back.

 No sense in just dumping him because, as much as he hasn’t panned out the way we’d want him to, he is still a contributing player that the team has for a discount. How many fourth lines contain 25 goal scorers?

Just sit Shelley, and we can get Car bomb back in for you.

by The Gang Wins the Cup on Dec 8, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

We can put him in the ahl and he would be off the cap. I keep saying it, because it is a simple solution that people don’t understand. People also do not understand that we already have ville leino. There is no need to sign him right now, let alone form this team around next years contracts. If Z is fucking up the team in a month or two, then get rid of him. It’s too early right now though

by phinally on Dec 8, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Zherdev’s got a bargain contract. If we trade him we trade him because he doesn’t fit in our system but we acknowledge that in another system he could become a big point scorer. We trade him acknowledging that on a points/$ basis he could be amazing for the team we trade him for. Hence we don’t just trade him in a salary dump that does nothing. I would only trade Z to a team out West looking to add that last bit of depth scoring for a 1st rounder or top notch prospect.

Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.

by PursuitOfLappyness on Dec 8, 2010 3:33 AM EST reply actions  

This move would give the Flyers cap and roster space. With Zherdev gone, the Flyers would have room to insert Dan Carcillo into the line-up full time.

I’m down with that.

Carcillo's number one lover fan and defender

by Cillo stache on Dec 8, 2010 7:53 AM EST reply actions  

Bad Trade

1. This is a bad idea because like many above have said the Caps do not need Z and he can score with the Flyers. The Caps need a center not a winger.
2. If they trade him they need to get someone who can play in the NHL and score too. I propose someone like the Sharks for Logan Couture or Patrick Marleau. Maybe to the Oilers for Magnus Paanjavari. Keep them in the NHL too.

by FlyersFan20 on Dec 8, 2010 8:37 AM EST reply actions  

P.S.

The Caps pick we would recieve would suck because they will probably have the 28th- 30th pick late rounds.

by FlyersFan20 on Dec 8, 2010 8:48 AM EST reply actions  

P.S. Again

With those picks we can only hope we draft someone that could be a Zetterberg or like Bobs.
Those chances happening for the Flyers is zero-to-none.

by FlyersFan20 on Dec 8, 2010 9:25 AM EST reply actions  

Exactly. trading Zherdev for a late round pick would only amount to the Flyers using that pick on another fighter

by njh3293 on Dec 8, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I would not move Zherdev until the trade deadline. He is not a cog on the team, but he could become valuable if a key forward is hurt. He is merely a cheap luxury for the Flyers. I do not see him being moved.

Phigment

by Phigment on Dec 8, 2010 10:55 AM EST reply actions  

Caps Salary Cap

Does anyone know IF the Caps have room under the salary cap to take Z of our hands? I also think we’d be better off trading him to the West where we wouldn’t have to play him until the SCF.

by flyersphan17 on Dec 8, 2010 11:01 AM EST reply actions  

They do have room. About 1.8 million it looks like but they’re carrying a lot of players. 8 D-men and 14 forwards

by phinally on Dec 8, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Although, to be fair, if the Flyers thought he was such a shitty player that he should be traded for a career AHLer — the OP’s suggestion being Aucoin — I wouldn’t be too worried about facing him. If he’s the kind of guy you don’t want to face you probably want to keep him around.

by The Gang Wins the Cup on Dec 8, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I just don’t understand why we need to trade him at all. Even if we did, I wouldn’t do it for a career NHL player. I do it for the highest draft pick we could get.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Dec 8, 2010 11:15 AM EST reply actions  

I am not against the Flyers keeping Zherdev for the year, but if we trade him for a NHL player like Couture or Paanjavari who are both rookies and could have long-term payoffs for the Flyers instead of even thinking about keeping Zherdev after the season.

by FlyersFan20 on Dec 8, 2010 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Has to be much more than Zherdev in that case.

My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
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by red army line on Dec 8, 2010 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

No way would the Flyers get any of those guys for Zherdev unless the opposing GM is high on meth.

What can't Giroux do?

by tmurder on Dec 8, 2010 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Let me restate that
I hate Jeff Carter’s contract so lets offer Carter, Zherdev, and possibly one of our young defenseman prospects like Kevin Marshall whom it was stated at training camp that he will probably never have the chance for the Flyers roster in the near future.

by FlyersFan20 on Dec 8, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Carter has an excellent contract and that is the worst trade ever…You’re suggesting Z, Carter, and Marshall for Couture? That would completely blow up our team. Now not only are you getting rid of one person, but three, two of which are on the Flyers. So you want to replace one of our best scorers and a skilled winger for a rookie?

by phinally on Dec 8, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Carter, Z and Marshall aren’t getting traded in a 3 for 1 for anyone other than Steven Stamkos or Drew Doughty.

Simon Gagne may move between towns, wear new jerseys and call different arenas home, but at the end of the day, he will always be a Philadelphia Flyer.

by PursuitOfLappyness on Dec 8, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t mean Couture specifically and definitely more than just him and what i mean by hating Carter’s contract is the years it has not the money. I would all be for the trade for Doughty

by FlyersFan20 on Dec 9, 2010 8:47 AM EST up reply actions  

You have to understand that the years are what makes it a great caphit and thus a great contract. And shit, we don’t need another dman haha

by phinally on Dec 9, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

That was supposed to say career AHL player.

Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"

by Ed Van Chimp on Dec 9, 2010 11:20 PM EST up reply actions  

here we go again

more people wanting to trade zherdev while he is blamed for not scoring goals, playing on the 4th line, and ALWAYS getting bumped around when the flyers are behind and need goals. the dude is getting no time to make chemistry with anyone. terrible

by mincxubusc66 on Dec 8, 2010 11:23 AM EST reply actions  

Don’t worry, this is a horrible idea in general (especially for the proposed return), and most people who are agreeing with it don’t understand the fact that Z is on a 1 year affordable contract, and that his contract is not keeping the team from extending Leino during the season (since Z isn’t on the books next year).

Your Zherdev jersey should survive the season. He is second on the team for ES Goals per 60 minutes, he is doing exactly what the team signed him to do…score goals…and he is doing it at a reasonable price. He isn’t getting much of an opportunity on the PP, so you can’t ask him to score where he isn’t playing.

Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Dec 8, 2010 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I would love to here the arguments from people who said this trade would be good….

by phinally on Dec 8, 2010 11:38 AM EST reply actions  

I think they voted it would be good just to troll us into bashing it.

What can't Giroux do?

by tmurder on Dec 8, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

It boggles my mind that it’s even this close. I feel like most people thought this was such a horrible idea that they didn’t even dignify it with a vote.

Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Dec 8, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I guess none of the regulars have bothered to look at this

What can't Giroux do?

by tmurder on Dec 8, 2010 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

with nodl’s recent success, id like to see a nodl-richards-z line.

by mincxubusc66 on Dec 8, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I will say I don’t like Giroux and Carter together, and putting Z on that line, IMO, adds to the problem. I just don’t like what I see from that line as far as playing style goes.

Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Dec 8, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

That line with Carter,Giroux and Z consists of a horrible shooter (Carter) and future Hall of Famer in my opinion and according to Simon Gagne the next Peter Forsberg(Giroux) and a guy who hates to pass (The Enigma a.k.a. Zherdev)

by FlyersFan20 on Dec 8, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

If we’re making broad generalizations on style of play; I’d rather look at that combination as a guy who hates to pass (Z), a guy who hogs all the shots no matter which lines he’s on (Carts), and a guy who really should be shooting more because he’s got skills but doesn’t have a “shoot-first” instinct. Sure, G can feed the other two, but that mix of guys holds G back from his potential.

Plus, Carter is capable of being defensively responsible, but sometimes he’s lazy about actually doing it. I don’t want G to have to carry all the defensive burden for that line on the night’s that Carter isn’t motivated to backcheck. Too often those shots that get ripped wide become chances going the other way and I’d rather not wear G out that much. Better to isolate Z and Carter from each other, in my opinion.

by DragonGirl0583 on Dec 8, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

This is roughly why I made my statement.

Geoff has Boosh, Mike's got Powe, Nodl is all mine!
Is this the right room for an argument?

by DLJr on Dec 8, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ll agree with that.

by FlyersFan20 on Dec 9, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

hmm that’s a bad typo haha

by phinally on Dec 8, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that we should hold onto Z until the trade deadline. If he has produced consistently, the team feels that he is not a key part of the line-up, and a Western Conference team is interested in him, I say trade him. Trading him now is not the answer. Retaining Z in case the injury bug bites is a good option, and who knows, maybe he just needs half a season to adjust back to the North American style of the game. If he figures himself out and finds consistency, he could have a break-out second half. Maybe a WC team will put an offer on the table the Flyers can’t refuse. Then again, it’s unlikely that would happen.

by hartmanzord on Dec 8, 2010 2:18 PM EST reply actions  

Hold On

Just a few answers to ome critisim. For one, Brooks Laich IS a natural center. Although he is not a finess one he is a solid 2n line one. Two, I’m not saying “trade Zherdev at all costs”. In my opinion, Zherdev is getting the shit end of the stick here and I would like to see him get more top-nine minutes. All I’m saying is that he’s kind of a waste on the fourth line. I didn’t know Aucoin was that old so that is my bad. I just gave the Bears’ roster a quick look and saw Aucoin who was having a good season. I don’t expect the Caps to trade a promising player for a rental.

by Flyersfan94 on Dec 8, 2010 8:02 PM EST reply actions  

Laich’s a natural center in the same was Tomas Fleischmann is. They were in their younger days, but have been almost always on the wing in the NHL. Laich does a decent job as a center, but he’s not more than a good band-aid for scoring line center.

His main value is work in the corners, defensive awareness/PKing, and banging in pucks around the net. He’s not a puck distributor or a shooter.

The Bears last season were loaded. This season, you’d do better looking at WBScranton, I think. Hershey in terms of guys who are close to if not already NHL-good doesn’t much—Aucoin, Perreault, A. Gordon, Beagle, and McNeill, probably.

My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
If you don't know how to use Timeonice, read this.
"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays

by red army line on Dec 9, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

This is what I was getting at.

by phinally on Dec 9, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

If we give Zherdev to the Caps we better get someone who can make a major contribution AND make them a worse team. It makes no sense to get better if you make your direct opponent better. We can make the Isles better but not the Caps. I went ape shit when we gave Hamhuis to PIT, but we obviously knew they weren’t going to get him signed (I hope).

Man Crushin on Bob since 2010

by orangeandblack20 on Dec 8, 2010 8:26 PM EST reply actions  

I think we definitely knew what Hamhuis wanted and it was a great strategical move

by phinally on Dec 9, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

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