Thursday Morning Fly By: Another Win, Phantoms Win, and Carter in Olympics
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 11, 2010 10:31 AM EST
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PrintToday's open discussion thread, including your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Last night's NHL scores... Flyers 3 - Devils 2 (OT); NAS 2 - NYR 1; CLB 3 - SJ 1; MTL 6 - WAS 5 (OT); PIT 3 - NYI 1; PHO 3 - MIN 2; COL 4 - ATL 3 (OT); ANA 3 - EDM 2
- Recaps of last night's win: [BSH] [NHL] [In Lou We Trust] [Inquirer] [CSNPhilly] [DelCoTimes] [The700level] [SanFilippo] [Daily News]
- The Flyers are tied for 7th in the East after last night's win.
- The Phantoms beat Rochester 3-1 last night behind goals by Jonathon Kalinski, Sean Curry, and Jason Ward. Johan Backlund made 25 saves. [PostStar] [PostStar]
- Joacim Eriksson got the win in relief yesterday, making 19 saves on 21 shots. He is now second in the league with a 92.75 save percentage. [euroflyers] [euroflyers]
- Speaking of Eriksson, rumor is he's expected to sign with the Flyers this summer. [euroflyers]
- Tim McManus wrote a story on Mika Pyorala. [PostStar]
- The Capitals finally lost last night, but it wasn't without controversy. This goal has been compared to Sami Kapanen's goal against the Caps in Game 7, but what about when Scott Hartnell negated a Flyers goal recently? [Puck Daddy]
- Jeff Carter has been told to go to Vancouver Sunday in case Ryan Getzlaf can't play. [John Boruk]
- More Olympic stories: First, Chris Pronger and Team Canada [Inquirer], then Kimmo Timonen and Team Finland [Inquirer], and then back to Canada with Mike Richards [Daily News] and Jeff Carter [Daily News].
- Maybe this is Olympic news too, but Team Latvia deserves it's only bullet. Pride of Latvia, Oskars Bartulis! [Inquirer]
- Turco? Who needs Turco when you have Leighton! [Inquirer]
- A look at how shift length has changed over the past decade. [Behind The Net]
- Bob McKenzie looks at why Montreal won't be trading a goalie at the deadline. [TSN]
- After last night's game, the Flyers had to dig their cars out again. [Flyers]
- And finally, in case you missed it in Travis' recap, via Deadspin comes this hilarious video from last night's game:
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Does anyone understand why tomorrow night’s game is at 6pm? There must be some reason, but I can’t figure it out.
wondering the same thing myself. Maybe it’s because of the back to back scheduling?
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 11, 2010 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
i heard it had something to do with hockey night in canada, it is usually saturday but i think with the olympics starting saturday they moved it
Yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s the first game of a HNIC double header
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 11, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
couple olympic thoughts.
I’d be very concerned about Brodeur if I was Team Canada. He makes unbelieable close in saves, but he doesn’t look so good on the mid-range to distance shots.
I wouldn’t put Carter anywhere near Team Canada. His performance lately has been outstanding, no doubt, but the guy seems to have no heart at all. He’s like the tin man. J. Willis had a post of contenders, and to me Stamkos or St. Louis were way better options.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 11, 2010 11:00 AM EST reply actions
Setting aside your opinion of Carter, he’s on the team because he plays much better defense than either of those guys.
I’d like you to expound on that because Carter’s +5 is not significantly better than Stamkos/St. Louis +2. (I know, i’m not trotting out any fancy stats etc., i’m going to rely on you to do that) I’d think St. Louis ends up playing against a lot tougher competition than Carter does, Stamkos, maybe comparable. Both those players play on a team that is arguably quite a bit worse than the Flyers. I’m not sure I buy your position, regardless of my opinion on Carter.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 11, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
St. Louis and Carter are quite comparable, actually. St. Louis plays against slightly tougher competition with slightly better teammates, they both have good relative corsi numbers (Carter slightly ahead), St. Louis has a further spread in GF and GAON/60, but both are higher than Carter’s. And St. Louis has only a slightly higher offensive znoe start.
They’re pretty close, actually. Maybe a slight edge to Carter, but not by much.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 11, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Wha…wha…WHAT? You’re throwing out numbers in favor of the blind eye??
I’m not familiar enough with St. Louis’ D, but they have the same DGVT score (2.6). Also, I know Carter is capable of playing great D, but that doesn’t mean he always does. I tend to agree with you, but not “much better”.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 11, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
HA. I think the translation is MarioD: I’m too busy/lazy and don’t care enough about this debate to go look up the Corsi.
Carter definitely has size on St. Louis and is probably more capable of playing more of a shut-down role. Whether he does that or not is debatable. St. Louis always seems like a firecracker on the ice to me. I like St. Louis better and I personally would like to see Stamkos there. He’s a kid, but he’s been playing out of his mind lately.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 11, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
The argument is who played better D this season. It’s what they’re capable of. And that’s something that relies upon scouting.
right, but I maintain that my scouting of watching both St. Louis, Stamkos and Carter is that Carter certainly probably has the best potential of the 3 to play a physical defensive game. Does he? Some nights, yes, some nights he doesn’t give a fuck, which is my premise that I wouldn’t want him anywhere near Team Canada. Let St. Louis do it, at least that guy seems to give 110% everytime he’s on the ice and his numbers are comparable, if not just as good as Carter’s and he has more offensive upside.
On that note, I’d rather have Stamkos, because here’s another guy that has taken his game to a different level in the last month, who seems to have a little more creativity in the offensive zone as well and he hasn’t been awful defensively.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 11, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
that Carter certainly probably has the best potential of the 3 to play a physical defensive game.
Ignoring “certainly probably”…
That’s all I’m saying. I believe thats what Olympic Teams base their selections upon.
I’m sure they do, I just don’t have to agree with their reasoning, when I’ve seen all 3 players play and put a certain weight on “how much effort the player seems to be exerting every shift”
Plus the numbers don’t lie.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 11, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Numbers don’t lie.
Im just saying they report performance, and Yzerman is looking at potential.
I think they assume that playing in the Olympics in Vancouver will get all the players to give their maximum effort.
you would think that getting paid $5MM a season would get maximum effort as well, but apparently this isn’t always the case (more perceived, I suppose)
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 11, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
One major, quite simple oversight in this entire discussion:
Getzlaf – right handed shot
Carter – right handed shot
St. Louis – left handed shot.
Simple. Stamkos was also just terrible last season and didn’t make the summer camp, the same reason Matt Carle didn’t get a good look for USA.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 11, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Stamkos wasn’t terrible last year. He may not have had a ton of points but a lot of that had to do with Barry Melrose very publicly stating that he didn’t think Stamkos was ready for the NHL and then not giving him much playing time. He had multiple games in which he was getting less than 10 minutes on the ice. It’s not a coincidence that once Melrose left/was fired and Stamkos started getting significant ice time that he started producing.
Sure he had some rookie growing pains but if you look at the whole body of work and take into account everything else, he did a pretty good job. Not to mention last year the Lightning were absolutely terrible as a team. I’m sure that didn’t help either.
Did anyone read yesterdays report that Forsberg actually took a plane from Sweden to Vancouver for the Olympics?
I dont know what the rest of the team did or how they are planning to travel 7,000 miles to get to where they are supposed to be but I thought the report was interesting.
Today the new TSN report is that Forsberg plans to play in the Olympics. Which makes sense because I recently read a report telling me he flew to Vancouver for the Olympics.
Here we go again
Ten worst contracts: Expensive Mistakes Linger
Briere is #3
Comments are the worst part. People are stupid. “If these guys had any pride and loyalty to their teams, at least some of them would offer back some of their salary to help out the team.” Really?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
On the bright side, Briere’s the best player on that list. I’d hate to be stuck with some of those other contracts.
Still $6.3 a year for the hit… just rough no matter how you try to be optimistic about it.
I will offer to shovel out their cars for 1/2 that price
by Prometheus74 on Feb 11, 2010 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of it is skewed by the economy, though. I mean, if everything hadn’t gone in the tank and the cap wasn’t going down every year, it probably wouldn’t look as bad in context. Still, in light of the previous season, and out of all the other free agents that were available, I think Homer made the right choice with Briere.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Does Briere really still fit this bill? He’s forth on the team in points, he leads the team in S% (if you don’t count David Laliberte?)
I guess he should probably be producing at a PPG clip for his salary.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 11, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I mean he should be producing at a better p/g clip, but he’s fourth on the team in that category. Maybe he’s not worth 6.3, but he’s definitely worth 5. And on the open market, that’s the price you pay. Small gripe.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 11, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
I know the author, I might send him an email. I think Drury is a far worse signing.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 11, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Briere has been a little bit of a bust this season but so have all the rest of our top 6 forwards except for maybe Carter lately. On the other hand Briere has always played well in the playoffs which is something that doesn’t get looked at that much in these lists. Overall I say the jury is still out on Briere’s contract.
This is assinine. Briere is a better player than Drury and signed for nearly a million less that summer. Yet Drury isn’t even on the list?
Exactly
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 11, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
maybe Wes was trying not to pile on the Rangers, who already had 2 guys on the list.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 11, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
yes, of course, I’m hoping you realize I was being incredibly sarchastic.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 11, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Seravalli also said Carcillo had a full practice today, so he’s not injured from the blatantly uncalled trip last night.
nice.
still, i think carcillo needs a rest. methinks he is not used to an increased playing time.
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
He’s averaging 10:52 this season. Last year with Phoenix he was averaging 11:58.
I think he’s a bit banged up and will benefit from the break as much as anyone on the team, but its not due to increased playing time.
Well it might be due to increased playing time…do the numbers you just put out there include time in the penalty box?
I agree. Now Carcillo is only getting a break at the end of his shift when he goes to the bench, when he used to get at least 2 minutes halfway through his shift
"NZFlyerfan"
Did you change your name, NZ? Or should I say Todd.
by Mitchell Green on Feb 11, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
huh. nice find.
just seems like he has an increased presence out there. maybe that’s where i erred.
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
Carcillo seems like he is on the ice more because he is one of the few that actually busts his ass on every shift.
by SanDiegoScraps on Feb 11, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Carcillo has been one of the hardest working players out there on the ice. As soon as Lavi got ahold of him, and smacked him around a little he’s been GREAT. Hard working, controls the game’s momentum and obviously not afraid to fight.
\m/ \m/
Yes, but the decrease in penalties/general stupidity has really cut down under Laviolette.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 11, 2010 8:52 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree. He took a 10 minute misconduct in a tie game two nights ago. He also had his three game suspension under Laviolette.
Yeah, but a new coach isn’t instantly gonna make him change his act. Lavi obviously was working on him, and it didnt all take into effect until after the suspension and the Bradley situation (That was such BS, by the way)
Either way, you are completely correct that he’s been that way since day one, but he’s gotten SO much better on all fronts since then.
The three game suspension came literally on the same day he met Peter Laviolette.
Since then, he’s played much much smarter hockey.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 11, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Digging out of the snow
Why the heck are the Flyers players digging themselves out of the snow. Cant Snider pay someone to help out with it?
Agreed. But that lot doesn’t look bad at all compared to last time, it at least looks like the driving lane was plowed. But I’m not 100% sure it’s the same lot.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 11, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
new game opener video thing
http://flyers.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?catid=774&id=59779
Dunno if y’all have seen this, but here’s the new video they’ll be playing at the Wach before games for the second half of the season.
I approve.
That’s not going to encourage people people around the league to drop their “All Flyers are goons” mentality, that’s for sure. It played into the stereotype a little much, considering we seem to be battling against the stereotype every day.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 11, 2010 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
I think we care about this more than the Flyers do. They’ve never tried to distance themselves from this image and seem to relish it, in fact.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
I’m only trying to point out what we’re going to hear from outsiders and the MSM, really. The fan base isn’t going to have a single problem with it, it just isn’t going to change any minds of the announcers, media, or refs who think we’re all goons.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 11, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
With so many Olympians on this team they better do something big come playoff time. I want to see nothing less than an ECF so this Olympic run better wake up some of our guys and inspire them to bring it every game from now on, and that includes the ones sitting at home watching- ahem Briere, Gags, Hartnell. Go Flyers go!
We only have 5 (4 guaranteed), so we’re not quite leading the league in Olympians, we’re in the middle of the pack. (That said, we do have the same number as the Pens and more than the Caps). I too want Gags, Briere, Hartnell, etc to come back after the break ready to go, so we can handle it if the others are exhausted.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 11, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Line-up for tonight...
So will all the Flyers Olympic bound players be on the ice tonight or will they be in Vancouver for the opening ceremonies?
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