BSH Radio 5: Mike Boone of the Montreal Gazette Speaks About Hitler Comments
by Travis Hughes on Feb 18, 2010 12:09 AM EST
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PrintOn this week's edition of Broad Street Hockey Radio, we speak to Mike Boone, the columnist from the Montreal Gazette who compared the Flyers to Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany.
Mr. Boone gave us his justification for making the comments, which were considered outlandish by some and downright offensive by others. He also responded to a few questions and comments from BSH readers, as well as whether or not he feels he should be temporarily suspended from his position at the Gazette for the comments he made.
The conversation is an interesting case study in just how differently certain members of the traditional media understand the difference between what is printed in the newspaper and what is printed on the Internet. It's safe to say that those of us who are exclusively on the web see this divide differently.
Moving on, Ben joins the show and the three of us chat about the salary cap issues, or lack thereof, that the Flyers face heading into this offseason. We address criticisms of Danny Briere and go off on several tangents, including wondering if the Philadelphia Kixx are still around town.
We also answer a question or two from listeners ourselves because, well, it's the Olympic break and there's not much else to talk about.
Get the show after the jump.
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Apologies to one listener who called in with a question. You didn’t give your name, but you’re a girl (so that should narrow it down some). We did answer your question but there were some technical problems and we couldn’t get our responses on the show this week. We’ll include in the show next week, for sure.
Other people: call in or email us outlandish questions (I guess serious questions are okay too). We need stuff to talk about next week.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Technical problems?? Dammit.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, for whatever reason only my voice recorded on that part. You and Ben are just silence.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 17, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, so we have to re-record that?
Because I really really hope “Naked Pronger” didn’t get lost. That was comedic gold. And Ben’s description of the future Hart Trophy winner.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Not to take sides with Mike Boone, and what I think what he said was ridiculous, but I dont’t think that he only meant to compare the amount of hatred. Not the reasons for it. I dont (or atleast hope) that he meant to say that the flyers are anything close to Hitler and Nazi Germany, just that he has the same level of hatred towards them. Also its not everyday we hit a new level of hatred towards us.
On another note, I do think it was quite cool that you were able to get him on the show and sort of berate him for his comments.
He doesn’t concede this in the interview though. I would have been ok with it if he had said something like “Look, I was in the heat of the moment I said I hated the Flyers and I thought of the best metaphor that would illustrate my hate”. But he doesn’t, and it gets to a ridiculous point where he’s trying his best to show how the metaphor works. At least that’s what I understood.
His concession that he would never write it in the print edition, so what! He is a journalist so he should appropriately at all times. Who cares what form of media he pushes his opinion through. Paper readership is down, I think it could be argued that more people would access him through the internet than through the printed Gazette.
Also, here is a pic of Lavy doing his best angry face. What does this make you think of?
"NZFlyerfan"
In listening to the podcast, my question was quite rambling – as expected – but I was just completely flabbergasted at this guy. So, sorry if my question lacks coherence.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 9:22 PM EST reply actions
No it’s fine, I actually quite enjoyed the fact that none of you could get through a sentence without stumbling because of your disbelief of the whole situation.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 17, 2010 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
haha, ok good. Cause I had a hard time wrapping my head around his responses.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t believe Boone is Jewish, and he still went there with that Hitler statement. Culturally, he should have a hatred of Nazi Germany that no sports team could ever approach, even if it is hyperbole. I only have a small bit of ancestry that suffered through that genocide, and while I recognize that part of myself enough to have a black triangle pin I used to wear, my level of vitriol towards that Hitler imagery is still more intense than a sports rivalry. I could never imagine applying that as an analogy of my hatred of Crosby or anything. I’m with many others on the professionalism issue; he didn’t post that on a personal blog that’s completely unaffiliated with the paper, he was still acting as an employee of the paper in some fashion and should be held to some standard.
I wish I had seen this before, as I just noticed it, but I wanted to point this out to the group real quick. These are “The Rules” listed on the right sidebar of habsinsideout.com:
The Rules
Habs Inside/Out encourages lively debate, but there is a zero-tolerance policy regarding racism, profanity and behaviour that we deem to be offensive. We will, without warning, ban those who do not abide by this simple rule, so as to maximize the enjoyment of readers and participants of both sexes and all ages.
Just thought it was funny. Great show guys.
(I just realized almost no one will know this, but for anybody who was confused, the black triangle was the first symbol used for the Gypsies who were put into camps during the Holocaust)
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 17, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
I was a bit disturbed by it as well. I have a little Jewish heritage on my mother’s side, and her father was in the 8th infantry, which was one of the liberating units (Wöbbelin subcamp, Neuengamme concentration camp). I still have his unit pin, which I used to wear until the hinge started wearing down. I can understand the use of Nazi/Hitler imagery as a hyperbolic joke, or in the heat of the moment; I’m not particularly fond of either, but given the length of time and the sheer enormity of the evil, it’s hard to remain serious about it. However, I can’t understand the manner in which Boone has been using it, which appears to be dead serious and relatively thought-out.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Maybe I’m a cynic, but at this point I feel like writers make this outlandish statements solely for the publicity. He’s not worth the paper or internet space his words or printed on, nor our breath/efforts for that matter.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
He posted a link to the podcast (and this page, basically) in a post he wrote today.
http://habsinsideout.com/boone/29396
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
Is that actually a Nazi helmet?
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
Just a German army helmet. I’m not sure that means ‘Nazi’ since they originated in WWI…
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 17, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
//sputtering
Did anybody read the bottom part of that post?
Maybe I’m seeing things, maybe I’m interpreting it wrong… but didn’t he mean watching Markov play against Latvia?
My two cents after watching Andrei Markov play against Lithuania:
I love the guy and respect Markov’s love for his country.
The patriotism and blood of the Russian people defeated the aforementioned monsters in World War II.
But there are 5.75 million good reasons why the best player on the team should maybe have played against Philadelphia
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 17, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
This guy is just too much. First he disrespects our team, then he disrespects the finest country in the world!
We need Ben to get the contact information of those Latvian pirates and formally introduce them to Mike Boone.
Proudly supporting a Flyers team with "no honor".
The only reason the Russians got involved in WWII was because the Nazis invaded first.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
His position might be influenced from the Soviet Union’s total population death toll of 26.6 million….After bearing the most casualities in WW1 ( 3,311,000…approx 1 mill. more than the Krauts) next to the French (1,697,800) it’s no wonder why they put up a wall between them and Western Europe.
I totally didn’t hear him try and make the joke “I guess I should hold off on the Paul Holmgren as (somebody).”
Really? You’re going to make a joke? I can’t believe I missed that.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 9:37 PM EST reply actions
Pol Pot, I think.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 17, 2010 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, I had no idea who he was. Still have never heard of him.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, not exactly a nice comparison, I’ll tell you that much… became leader of Cambodia, did a bunch of terrible things which resulted in the deaths of about 20% of Cambodians (~2 million people, if I remember correctly?).
Something like that. This guy sure likes selective history, doesn’t he? Seems to have a thing for genocides, but doesn’t seem to remember the finer details of them (like the way he said the atrocities of the Holocaust didn’t happen “until 41”, I think that was his wording…)
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 17, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Well, when the genocides started are controversial. But that depends more on the definition of “genocide” than it does on when the murders started.
I’m having a hard time remembering my undergrad class, but wasn’t the tipping point Kristonocht (sp)?
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
If you only count when they got reckless and started mass murders, yeah it was a couple years after the Olympics. But the first camps were built in 33, and Kristallnacht was in ’38. People were dying before the Olympics, just not on a scale that made the world ready to intervene.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 17, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
I should clarify that, some world leaders did want to intervene earlier, but didn’t have the necessary support to do so. I was being unfair to the good guys the way I worded it.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 17, 2010 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
He says in his blog: “Anyway, I still think the Flyers are thugs who play ugly hockey.”
Ugly hockey that KICKS YOUR HABS’ ASS! I’d rather play ugly and win than play pretty and lose. Idiot.
He goes on to post probably the most vulgar response he got to his inane drivel, which I still say he posted in order to get the press. It actually seems to be too well written to come from one of our more vitriolic fans; I think he made it up himself.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Wow, there was so much edited out of this week’s podcast. Probably for the better, but… If we ever had an “outtakes” post, it would be completely ridiculous.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 10:02 PM EST reply actions
Really, I love the Flyers, but aren’t we just looking to gang up on someone here? I mean, come on. I think political correctness to the extent it’s pushed these days is absurd. I make jokes all the time about different races, genders, religions, everything. And when someone makes fun of me, I take it in stride. I imagine quite of few of the people on here are fans of South Park, Family Guy, etc….do you get offended at the jokes or topics on those shows? I think someone took a shot at the Flyers, and, being a Habs guy, we were just looking for an excuse to slam him. Was anyone HONESTLY offended by what he said? Does anyone here REALLY think he was comparing the Flyers to Hitler and the Nazi’s?
No, not offended, because it’s so outlandish and such bullshit that there’s no validity to it. However, the difference between those shows you mention and this guy is that they are satires and he is a supposed professional journalist. First rule of sports’ journalism is no cheering from the press box.
And bottom line, he is writing these kinds of things because he fully expects to be slammed for them. Incendiary comments increase readership and commentary. He’s counting on it.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Well, that was kind of my point. If it’s so outlandish, and there’s no validity to it, why was such a big deal made? If he had said Dan Carcillo was responsible for the earthquake in Haiti, (fairly outlandish, could have been) would we have been up in arms about it?
Really? That’s a shame. Do you take everything literally? Because Hugo Chavez actually said it was the US that caused the quake.
And people gave him sh*t for it, no?
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 17, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
Well, Pat Robertson said gays caused Hurricane Katrina. Didn’t he also say 9/11 was God spiting America?
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
Jerry Falwell said something about 9/11 being the fault of gays and non-Christians (I’m pretty sure I remember Pagans being called out directly in there somewhere….)
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 17, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
oooh, a new picture.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
The NYR media would LOVE it!
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Because he’s about to shove a puck in the dog’s face?
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, you meant mine. I thought you were talking about making a photoshop of Carcillo causing an earthquake. Did not realize you meant my little Flyer. Future thug, you know. And Nazi.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
haha, yeah. Should have clarified, sorry.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 18, 2010 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not offended by the direct comparison so much, it’s more like I’m offended by his attitude. He’s publishing crap like that on a blog affiliated with the major newspaper that signs his paycheck, where his own blog’s “rules” say you can’t post anything offensive or rascist, and then he comes here and tries to defend himself by saying that he should not be held to any standard of professionalism or journalistic integrity just because it’s the internet.
In the case of the shows you mention, you know it’s a joke, so even if you’re offended, you still know they intended it as a joke. This isn’t one of those cases, even though we believe he was doing it just to provoke a reaction, that’s not the context of the blog.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 17, 2010 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I’ll be honest, I didn’t listen to much of the interview. However, I’m just going by everyone’s initial reaction to the printed comment he made. I hear and read a lot of people in the world say stupid things, and for the most part I take it with a grain of salt, and move on. I can see what he said, make a relatively safe assumption that he doesn’t actually think the Flyers are capable of murdering millions of people, maybe call him an idiot, and that’s it.
But the issue is that there are a lot of people out there who actually do let their hatred of a team and their fans get to that level where they do stupid and dangerous things—and it’s these types of statements which I believe to be irresponsible and only fuel irrational hatred. They seem like throwaways because we have brains and can tell the difference between fact and fabrication, but there are a lot of stupid people in the world. That’s my only issue with stuff like this.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
And what difference does it make if an offensive remark is made as a joke or not? If I walk up to a black guy and tell him an utterly racist joke, I’m guessing I’m going to get the same reaction from him that a skinhead would if he walked up to him and called him a ( )…..isn’t that a bit hypocritical that it’s acceptable in one sense but not the other?
Freedom of speech means you are free to say what’s on your mind but you aren’t necessarily free from the consequences of said speech. If said speech gets you punched in the face or makes people flame you on the internet, thems the breaks. Doesn’t matter if it’s intended as a joke or not. The effect is the same as you say. But intent can always be argued in a court of law, not that it can always be proved.
Not to hijack this thread, but confinuing on the free speech theme—for all your Phillies’ fans out there—Wright shot the first arrow across the bow today by saying that he expects the Mets to win the NL East. Thoughts?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Yeah, uh, Jason Bay is gonna help that out a whooooole lot.
Wright’s an idiot, but of course he has to say that. The Mets don’t concern me until they get through a month without a major injury.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 17, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, the reporters explicitly asked him this type of info and he was fairly effusive in his praise for the Phillies. I sort of like Wright—even though he plays for the wrong team—and he’s just trying to show some leadership, I guess. I’d rather it come from him that some new guy like K-Rud last year. I don’t have a problem with it; I just wonder when the Braves enter the fray. They (Chipper) say they are above stuff like this (trash talk) and yet they trash CBP every chance they get.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Chipper is a different kind of dbag in my mind. I can’t stand that guy.
I generally don’t mind Wright, except for the fact that he’s much more of a pretty boy than Utley, a guy who he could be compared to talent-wise. I do think that Wright is a bit of a tool, though. I mean, you’d never see Utley posing like this:
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 17, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
Where did you get those?! I’ve been trying to find those for the past year! ERRRR
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 18, 2010 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
haha, me too.
I Google’d ‘David Wright pretty boy’ and it was in the first page of image results.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 18, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
WARRIORS....METROSEXUAL STYLE
Press release for the off, off Broadway musicial rendition of the 70’s classic The Warriors
Wright must be remember how far Beltran’s remarks got them last year, and trying to replicate the results…
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 17, 2010 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not a perfect comparison when you’re dealing with a TV show, but if you walk up to somebody, they really don’t have context if they don’t know you. And plenty of people do get offended by TV shows, but I can deal with them in context because I know what they’re going for and I can choose not to watch. Regardless, I’m not the right person to ask when it’s acceptable and when it’s not, because I can’t give you an objective answer about anything Holocaust related.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 17, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
The problem I have with just ignoring stuff like this is that, pretty soon, all of the Holocaust survivors, the people that all directly experienced it and the people that know those people are going to be gone.
If we trivialize the Holocaust now, which I think what we do when we just ignore this sort of thing and chalk it up to ‘not being PC’, we run the risk of forgetting how terrible the Holocaust actually was.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 17, 2010 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
You’re completely right. There’s already very few direct survivors left, and the stories of those survivors plus the people who knew them are now pitted directly against a group of world leaders who are going out of their way to try to prove it never happened at all. We already trivialize it too much, in that my nieces and nephews who are in school now are getting an overview of the story instead of the whole story. This is going to sound really pitiful, but we can’t forget the details of how we overcame it either, because those stories are getting lost too. It’s very rare to actually hear about how the Danish resistance managed to smuggle like 95% of their Jews to safety, or how when Germany seized control of Sweden’s telephone network the Swedes tapped the lines and ended up providing information to the Allies.
But like I said, I’m incapable of true objectivity here.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 17, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
A bit of a tangent…check out the movie “True Believer” if you haven’t seen it ….deals alot about the weight of history and jewish identity of jews a few generations removed from the Holocaust era…besides it’s a damn good movie. Also the paintings of the German artist Anselm Kiefer ….alot of work dealing with German cultural identity that is haunted by its past.
You know, I see what you’re saying, and I think it’s ridiculous when people get offended by South Park and Family Guy, but to me, any Nazi/Hitler comparison is just completely out of line.
It didn’t make it onto the podcast, but there’s something to be said for politicians comparing “Obama’s Death Panels” to Hitler – at least they have the supposed genocide/politics/head of state in common. But any reference outside of politics is just so ridiculous as to cause bewilderment.
Now, neither is appropriate, neither is accurate, and both are just trying to get attention, but the political reference is more… transparently ridiculous (although just as dangerous), whereas sports references aren’t always so innocent. And that, to me anyway, is the distinction.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 17, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
Wow.
You guys do all of the cool stuff when I’m in the studio.
I used to do audio preservation work for the Museum of Jewish Heritage in Brooklyn. I cleaned / edited / transferred many interviews with Holocaust survivors from tape to CD. Suffice it to say that I learned a lot more about the Holocaust from the survivors than I ever did from the history books. All of the interviews I heard were from Jewish folk; I did not hear any from Roma peoples or any other marginalized group.
It doesn’t bother me that the guy compared his feelings for the Flyers to his feelings for a bad person. I cringe whenever a name like Hitler’s is tossed around so lightly, however. If your feelings for a hockey team are the same as those you have toward a dictator who tried to create a “master race” by killing millions of people, your priorities are not in order and your perspective is severely skewed.
Now is as good a time as any to remind ourselves that “It’s only a game,” non?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Woooo my question made it on the radio good show guys keep it coming… i figured you guys would enjoy this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4Qg14HMP-4
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