Wednesday Morning Fly By: Edmonton Game Day and Phantoms News
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 3, 2010 10:39 AM EST
in Morning Fly By
24 comments
Today's open discussion thread, including your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Last night's NHL scores... TOR 3 - NJ 0; TB 2 - ATL 1; WAS 4 - BOS 1; MON 3 - VAN 2; DAL 4 - MIN 2; PHO 1 - NAS 0 (SO); COL 5 - CLB 1; LA 2 - NYR 1; DET 4 - SJ 2
- The Capitals have now won 11 in a row. Seriously.
- The Flyers are still in sole possession of 6th place in the East.
- Last night, the Phantoms lost to Norfolk 2-1. Some of Tim McManus' assorted thoughts: "Of the two new players, defenseman Denis Bodrov and forward Mika Pyorala, Bodrov was much more impressive. Bodrov is a flashy skater and made a couple of brilliant pivots to keep the puck in the zone on a 4-on-4 in the first period. He also set up Marc-Andre Bourdon for a good chance. I didn’t notice Pyorala much." [PostStar]
- Patrick Maroon scored a power play goal to put the Phantoms up 1-0 last night, making that his 9th point in 7 games. [Tim McManus]
- One more Phantoms note: Tim McManus spoke with the Phantoms owner on the Phantoms playing in Philadelphia next year, the Flyers playing in Glens Falls next year, and how the construction is going in Allentown. [PostStar]
- Some pre-game stories on tonight's game in Edmonton: [Daily News] [CSNPhilly]
- More Matt Carle Olympic talk: [Daily News]
- Simon Gagne isn't worried about his goal drought. Really? [Inquirer]
- Is the youth movement in the NHL already here? Average age of the top three scorers on each team: [From The Rink]
- Hate the charity point (or the Bettman point)? Here's some fancy charts on expected winning percentage since the lockout: [Behind The Net]
- Some charts on how each team drafts. Spoiler: Flyers are far below average in "number of players playing on the team that drafted them" but just above average in "number of team-drafted players still playing in the NHL". So they can draft decently, but they don't care? [Behind The Net]
- You may have heard there's this guy named Kovalchuk on the trading block. Does he have an advantage playing in the Southeast Division? "For general managers, I think the implication is obvious: don’t acquire a player from the Southeast and expect him to match the offence he posted in that division. The reverse holds true for Southeast G.M.’s; players acquired from outside the division can be (as a rule) expected to exceed their results from outside the division." [Hockey or Die]
- Oh, and it appears Kovalchuk is going to Los Angeles. "Malkin to the Kings"? Maybe. Maybe not. [From The Rink]
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I like the South-East division argument. Carolina, Florida, Tampa Bay, Atlanta jesus that is nice both of teams to pad your stats against.
Florida has the best GA/G of the group at 2.75 good for 18th in the league
Carolina is at 3.20 GA/G at 27th 2nd worst in the East only better than Toronto
Atlanta is slightly better than the Hurricanes at 3.13 GA/G ranked 21st
Tampa Bay comes it at 21st with 2.84 GA/G
Ranking by worst GA/G in the East
TOR
CAR
ATL
NYI
TB
PIT
OTT
FLA
4 out of the 8 worst defensive teams in the East are in that division.
Wait...
What’s with the old-school photo? Are we going to lose Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals tonight?
If so, nobody get your hopes up when Murray Craven opens the scoring during a 5-on-3 power play in the first.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
haha, I wanted to mix it up.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 3, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
It is real important that the Flyers try to make some moves for this AHL club to Allentown. I really think the office is overlooking how important it can be.
I don’t think it’s just that, there’s been pushback on getting funding for Allentown. I think the state may have let Allentown institute a local-area tax to fund the arena, but they didn’t just get a check from the state or from the city to build it. If I remember correctly (and disclaimer, I live in Jersey, so I don’t hear everything), the state was kind of like “Hey we just laid out money for Pirates, then the Phillies, then the Scranton/Wilked Barre Penguins, now the Lehigh Iron Pigs; we don’t have anything to give you for an arena.” Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure the funds will take time before the arena can get built.
That said, I agree that it was a benefit to have the clubs closer together and be able to call up a player on short notice. The hour and a half drive from Allentown is a big different to the almost 6 hours from Glens Falls. But hey, it could be a lot worse, isn’t the San Jose Sharks AHL team in Massachusetts?
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 3, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, the Sharks’ AHL team is in Worcester, MA. LA’s team is in Manchester, NH, Florida’s team is in Rochester, and Atlanta’s is in Rosemont, Illinois.
Living in Orlando, and with the new Amway Center being set up for ice hockey, I’m kinda hoping the Rochester Americans move down .Florida’s ECHL team is the Everblades, down in Estero, so acquiring the Americans would both put hockey back in Orlando and have both of Florida’s minor league affiliates in-state.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Would that dilute the market, though? I looked at the numbers for the old team in Orlando, which I understand was a lower league than the AHL, but only a handful of times over the years did they match or beat the current average attendance in Rochester. And Rochester is way down, so that average I used to compare is a lot lower than the average was a year ago.
I got my numbers from here: Minor League Attendance Trend
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 3, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Forgot to mention, there is that uphill battle against uprooting one of the only two AHL franchises that’s been in one city continuously for a long time. They’ve been there for 50 years, I don’t think the prospect of moving is going to be taken lightly.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 3, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t realize the Americans had been there that long. They’d probably be a bad choice to move, then. I only looked at them because of their connection to Florida. The Seals did have bad attendance, but they were only in Orlando for two years, and then out in Kissimmee (which is in a mostly rural county and had a population of about 60,000). The Solar Bears, on the other hand, didn’t have bad attendance, considering pro hockey only reached Florida in 1992 (and the first college hockey game was in 1989, between USF and Georgia State):
1997-98: 7,320
1998-99: 6,586
1999-00: 6,429
2000-01: 5,157 (this was the year we knew the Solar Bears were being dropped as part of the IHL/AHL merger because the DeVos family could only keep one team, and chose the Griffins)
For comparison, that 2000-01 attendance, the worst the Solar Bears had, was better than the attendance of every AHL team except Hartford, Philadelphia, Providence, Rochester, Syracuse, Wilkes-Barre, and Worcester. I could deal with being eighth in the AHL in attendance.
Orlando’s still not a great hockey town, but it’s improving. There are 8 college teams in Florida. Five (UCF, FGCU, FIT, Embry-Riddle, and USF) are relatively local. Most are Division III, but FGCU is a Division II team, in the same conference as Temple and Penn State. There are amateur leagues now in Orlando at DeVos’ RDV Ice Den, from Mites to a 35+ league. If the NHL really wants to spread its brand, it could do worse than the 82nd largest metropolitan area in the country.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
I did use the Seals for comparison, since they were the most recent pro team.
I’m not saying Orlando can’t get a team in some league, I just didn’t think an established AHL team would uproot to move there given the past attendance of the Seals.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 3, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, it may be worth mentioning that the Seals years of existence (and of dismal attendance) directly correlated with the years the Lightning were good. That’s why I asked about diluting the market.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 3, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Tampa/St. Pete isn’t that close to Orlando, though. Orlando to St. Petersburg is 104 miles. Philadelphia to New York City is 100 miles. I realize the populations aren’t similar, but within 100 miles of the Flyers, you have the Devils, Rangers, Islanders, Hershey Bears, Wilkes-Barre Penguins, Reading Royals, Trenton Devils. Within 100 miles of the Lightning, you have diddly and squat.
And going back to the Seals, their first two seasons their attendance was on par with the lower AHL teams. Once they became the Florida Seals, they were in the utterly atrocious Silver Spurs Arena, which is a rodeo facility with a seating capacity of 8,000.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Moving a team down to Florida may help the occasional call up, but just remember, there are no AHL teams in the south. The closest team would be the Norfolk Admirals, where Rochester plays near numerous teams in NY/Ontario. So how cost effective would that really be?
More cost-effective than the Abbortsford Heat being 1,124 miles from the next closest team? And that team (the Moose) is 728 miles from their nearest division team, the Griffons. Orlando to Norfolk is 649 miles. Orlando to Albany (the farthest team once the Phantoms move to Allentown) is 1,208 miles, or slightly more than the distance the Heat travel to their nearest opponent.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Don MacLane said he was speaking to scouts and there apparently is some talk about Hartnell. Not sure if it is either other teams inquiring about him or if the Flyers are actively shopping him.
Some think too much, then come too soon
I just curse the sun, so I can howl at the moon
I read that somewhere too. Something about Hartnell generating interest throughout the league.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 3, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately, yes.
Some think too much, then come too soon
I just curse the sun, so I can howl at the moon
Although there is some stipulation that we can trade him to the team that has the highest waiver priority for “Future Considerations”.
Some think too much, then come too soon
I just curse the sun, so I can howl at the moon
What team has the highest waiver priority Toronto or Edmonton. Hartnell for Kaberle? The cap numbers match up Hartnell is younger, under contract and takes lots of Penalties which Burke loves right.
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New Jersey
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Pittsburgh
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Philadelphia
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