Potulny's Revenge: Ex-Flyer scores with 16.1 seconds left, Oilers win 1-0
by Travis Hughes on Feb 4, 2010 12:24 AM EST
in 09-10 Game Recaps
124 comments
We traded him away for Danny Syvret, and tonight, he made the Flyers pay with a game-winning goal 16 seconds before they would've sealed a point. Ryan Potulny, who now has 12 goals on the season, has a salary cap hit of 595 thousand dollars. Scott Hartnell makes seven times that salary and has the same number of goals.
Ryan freakin' Potulny.
The Flyers didn't necessarily deserve to win this game, thanks to not finishing on about 30 chances, but they didn't deserve to lose it either. Jeff Deslauriers stood on his head throughout and truly earned a shutout. Michael Leighton matched him at the other end but his offense just didn't give him the support.
Too many missed opportunities, too many bad bounces to simply chalk it up to unfortunate luck. Ryan Potulny never should've had the opportunity to win this game in the final minute, and that's all there is to it.
It's late and this is succinct, but there's really not much else to say. The Flyers won on Monday in Calgary because they were opportunistic and buried their chances. They didn't do that tonight and they lost two points because of it. Plain and simple.
After the jump, an updated look at the playoff picture, questions with answers and the comment of the night. Remember, you can see the lowlights in the NHL.com widget on the right sidebar of the site.
Playoff Race
- 5th: Ottawa - 57 GP, 68 pts (won tonight)
- 6th: Philadelphia - 55 GP, 59 pts (lost tonight)
- 7th: Montreal - 57 GP, 58 pts (didn't play)
- 8th: Tampa Bay - 55 GP, 57 pts (didn't play)
- 9th: Florida - 56 GP, 57 pts (didn't play)
- 10th: NY Rangers - 57 GP, 57 pts (didn't play)
- 11th: Atlanta - 55 GP, 56 pts (didn't play)
- 12th: Boston - 54 GP, 55 pts (didn't play)
- 13th: NY Islanders - 56 GP, 54 pts (didn't play)
Questions With Answers
- Can Leighton step in after not playing in eight games and put together a solid performance? Leighton was solid tonight, yes.
- Will the Flyers show up for a game against a sub-par opponent? It's hard to say. They didn't play terribly but they couldn't capitalize offensively. I would hesitate to say they didn't show up, but clearly there's another level they didn't get to tonight.
- How does Mike Richards follow-up his two goal performance from Monday? Kind of invisible.
- Can the Flyers play an all-around solid road game as they did in Calgary? Generally speaking, yes. On the defensive end they were pretty solid. Offensively, quite the opposite. They generated chances though.
Comment of the Night
So what’s the scoop on Danny Syvret?
>> Bruce McCurdy, writer at The Copper & Blue
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6th place, still in 6th place. Hot damn we’re still in the playoffs
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Feb 4, 2010 12:36 AM EST reply actions
Hopefully we can stay there.
We ostensibly have one of the easiest-remaining schedules out of anyone in the league. And yet we’ve thrown away at least 3 points in our last two losses. Not good.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
wanna know a funny observation tho?
We’re still going to go further than last years team. I don’t know man I just can’t be negative if this team makes the playoffs. Can’t quit on philly in the post season in a series. just can’t
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Feb 4, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
We can’t quit on them, but sometimes, they still quit on us by not showing up.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 4, 2010 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
I will never quit being a fan of the Flyers, but I’m also realistic.
Anything is possible IF you make the playoffs. But that’s a big IF.
We didn’t play badly tonight, but in situations like these good teams find ways to get the job done. We did not and lost a point because of it. If we miss the playoffs by a point, look no further than this game as to where that point should have come from.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I actuallly will look at the Pittsburgh game, but I get the idea. A realist would not see the Penguins where they are at today, or Philadelphia without a cup going on year 35.
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Feb 4, 2010 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
There are a ton of games we can look at. Tonight, the Pittsburgh game, Atlanta last week, the Winter Classic, just to name a few.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 4, 2010 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
How freaking poetic than an ex-Flyer scores the GW? Why, Lord, why?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
These things happen all the time to all Philly teams. Look at what Rod Barajas did to us this past season during the Phils/Blue Jays series.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Oh, God. Why you gotta bring him up?
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 4, 2010 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
We notice it when it happens to us, but doesn’t it happen to everybody? I feel like that kind of thing would even out.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 4, 2010 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
Probably.
Biron beat the Sabres four times last year.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Danny got a GW against them, too, to end that horrible losing streak in 2008…but he’s a good player. When ppl like Barajas, Helms or Potulny are the ones beating you, well…that sucks more.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Hasn’t beaten us though!
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 4, 2010 12:54 AM EST up reply actions
I can’t wait to watch Cy Myers and Pedro Feliz channel Ted Williams when we have to watch the Astros beat us ….it’s like upon signing with the Stros a player is forced to watch the 80’s NLCS Clockwork Orange style. I
And don’t forget, we could have Myers pitching the most dominant game of his career against us at the same time!
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 4, 2010 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
So what’s the scoop on Danny Syvret?
Comment of the night? Wow. Sounds like I’ve missed the back story entirely.
Any representative thread(s) you can point me to? I’m always interested in the careers of former Oilers.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
There’s been significant discussion, so you might be better off using the search feature. The general discussion has been less than positive, although he’s had good moments here and there.
by DragonGirl0583 on Feb 4, 2010 1:08 AM EST up reply actions
I would hesitate to say they didn’t show up, but clearly there’s another level they didn’t get to tonight.
Exactly. This is yet another example of attempting to win by doing the least amount of required work. Who’s fault is that? LEADERSHIP. Richards is the captain, its his job to get the team fired up. The only emotion I saw all night on the ice was Hartnell at the very end. The rest of the night they all just did their jobs meanwhile the Oilers played with overt desperation.
Also, there’s gotta be some backstory on that Laperierre fight. That was a little strange.
Apparently those two have a history from Lappy’s time in Colorado. Someone mentioned that in the game thread, maybe Bruce from C&B.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 4, 2010 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe Bruce can give us an answer when he pops back in.
Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Travis Hughes on Feb 4, 2010 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
I noticed that too. Very strange.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
They’ve fought before (Oct 12, 2008 and Oct 23, 2008). In the first fight, Stortini started it with a sucker punch to the face, then didn’t throw another punch until Lappy lost his balance and went to hands and knees, at which point he gave two or three shots to the ribs while Lappy was down. I think Lappy’s got a long memory.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
it’s pretty sad that grown men who are paid to do their job need Mike Richards to be a cheerleader to get them going. This wasn’t on Richards, despite him not doing anything, I thought he was more than “pretty invisible”.
The problem with last night was everybody trying to get “too cute” and make ONE more pass for the ESHPEN highlight reel goal. In Calgary, they crashed the net, working for the dirty goal, last night they reverted to the “let’s get some highlight goals”. In Calgary, they didn’t mind getting dirty, last night, it looked like nobody wanted to sacrifice anything. I’m sure you can point to this being a leadership issue, but I think it’s beyond that.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 4, 2010 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Richards is the captain, its his job to get the team fired up.
Stop with this. Richards is not the “rah-rah/in your face” captain you so desperately want for this team.
You know who else isn’t that kind of captain? Sidney Crosby. Just ask FrankD.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Feb 4, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Then he’s the wrong captain for this team. Because thats what they need. They need Pronger to tell them to get their heads out of their asses (Richards included) and play the fucking game.
Because Pronger can’t do that without fabric on his chest?
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Of course not. Because a team can only have one leader. The Coach and GM are excluded. The Alternate Captains are excluded. And Oskars Bartulis can’t turn around and tell OKT to get his head out of his ass and be smarter with the puck. That’d be stepping on Richards’ toes.
This whole “only one person can lead” thing is crap. Utter crap. Why would the team bring in Lappy for a “veteran presence” if he has to sit there in silence for fear of stepping on Richards’ toes?
More than one person can lead. More than one person is responsible for not leading.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
They already fired one coach for poor leadership. I’m all aboard the train to ditch Lavi and bring in Hitch over the summer train.
OKT was in the press box last night. And, no, I don’t think the least veteran guy on the team could do that.
Pronger has publicly made obvious that he would do things differently, but Richards’ hadn’t asked for his help. Pronger can’t just jump in and start doing.
If Pronger is such a leader, why doesn’t he go to Richards and ask if he needs help instead of waiting for Richards to come to him. If he has a problem with the way the team is playing and thinks he can help then why wait for Richards, he should take the initiative and bring it up to the Captain. Instead he seems content to watch the team or Richards stay the same.
This is what he told the media
Pronger told CSNPhilly.com on Tuesday that Richards has not asked for his help and that he is wary of "stepping" on Richards’ toes.
You can choose to agree or disagree with Pronger’s assessment of the appropriate course of action in the situation. But that is his reasoning.
Pronger told CSNPhilly.com he is walking a "tightrope" in the dressing room right now.
…
"[Richards] hasn’t come to me [to] ask me anything, and it’s delicate because at the end of the day, it’s his team," Pronger said. "He’s the captain. He needs to show the rest of the players that it is his team. I don’t want to be the guy that has to stand up every day and tell ourselves to look into the mirror and play better and all this stuff.
"I don’t know if he is ‘rah-rah’ type or talkative type. It is a difficult tightrope to walk. I don’t want to step on his toes. Maybe he is evaluating. You can’t just jump into a situation and ranting and raving without understanding what has gone on here in the past, as well.
"He’s been here four years and sees how things have progressed from being a s——y team to a pretty good team, to having even higher expectations. I would think he has a better read on some of these guys than I do.
Again, agree, disagree, whatever. But there’s no question that Pronger is hesitant to jump in.
I agree that he is hesitant to get involved because he doesn’t want to step on anyone’s toes and I understand that. I think that if he were to go to Richards and maybe be more of a mentor than tell him what to do may help. That way he is going over Richards head and Richards will learn more ways to lead.
I’m not saying you are wrong. And I don’t really agree with Pronger’s assessment (though I’ll give deference since he’s got the experience and he’s in the locker room). But this is where we are and apparently Pronger isn’t willing to do that.
So, what’s the next course of action?
Giving the C to Pronger would be my vote, but somehow you have to do it diplomatically enough to get Richards to up his game. Kind of how they did it in San Jose with Marleau.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 4, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
I personally think that’s a terrible decision. Not to attack you or anything – you’re certainly not alone – but I just can’t agree with that. He’s 24 and signed through retirement.
Why someone (Lavy, Homer, Lappy, Pronger, Richards) can’t just sit down and have a talk saying, “Look, Richards is our Captain. But the Captain isn’t the only one responsible. Everyone in this organization has the right and the responsibility to speak up when they see something wrong.”
To go back to my previous thought, if Bartulis thinks OKT is doing something wrong, he should certainly go to Pronger, Richards, Lavy, or Homer and say something. For the more experienced guys (Pronger, Lappy, Kimmo), they should have the ability to say something without Richards getting upset. Maybe he wouldn’t, maybe he would, but he shouldn’t so what’s holding everybody back?
Lastly, if everyone truly is afraid of stepping on Richie’s toes, my question then would be why? Does he have a temper we don’t know about? Does he have the respect of everyone in the locker room which would immediately turn against the guy speaking up? Is it deference? Is it unfounded fear? These aren’t known and need to be known in that locker room.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Geoff, nothing you say would be viewed as an attack, I see your point. I just think that this team needs a shakeup. Richards isn’t going anywhere, he’s still the defacto captain of this team, he just needs to be sent a message that he needs to work a little on his leadership skills. This team has been wildly inconsistent for years now and if firing a coach isn’t the right trigger, maybe it’s time to start shifting fabric on sweaters and/or putting some of these high profile, highly paid guys in the press box.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 4, 2010 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
The inconsistencies are definitely a problem. But if the argument against firing the coach was, “it isn’t the coach that’s the problem, it’s the players” why does that not translate to “it isn’t the captain that’s the problem, it’s the players”? Obviously, Stevens could have done things differently just like Richards could be doing things differently, but I just refuse to accept that the entire team should be looking to one player and only one player to lead them. There’s a reason this team went out and got Lappy and Pronger in the off-season.
It makes me wonder if the team has too many mild-mannered guys. I may be misreading the team, but Gagne, Richards, Carter, Briere, Giroux, JVR, Timonen, Carle, and others just seem like a core of “ho, hum, don’t rock the boat, just put your head down” kind of guys. Is that Richards fault? I don’t think so.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
nope, you’re probably pretty close to being right, but how do you make these guys care about doing their job? That’s what I’m trying to advocate. Maybe if they see their buddy Richards get a demotion, they realize they need to try harder? Seems unfair, but it’s a results oriented business.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 4, 2010 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
It’s times like this that make you appreciate what you had with a guy like Sami Kapanen. He didn’t have a letter on his chest but he hated to lose so much and he would hold his teammates accountable no matter who they were. He would also hold himself accountable. This is the type of guy that the team is missing right now.
how do you make these guys care about doing their job?
That’s the question. I wish I had an answer for you.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
my problem is that I have friends in the Philly area and they tell me that they hear whispers of Carter and Richards secretly hating each other. I know it’s probably a stupid rumor, like the Carter/Hartnell thing, but what if there is a grain of truth to it. How do you motivate guys (ie. if you are Richards) who secretly can’t stand you.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 4, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
I could see why those rumors exist. People will say, “But they hang out together all the time.” Simple answer: “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.”
However, Richards is now essentially the “boss” of people who are friends and that creates friction and bad blood in many cases.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
I’ve heard those rumors too. Something about Richards being jealous of Carter for getting picked ahead of him, and Carter being jealous of Richards for being the more highly thought of player and Captain.
I don’t put much into those types of rumors, but they’re certainly intriguing.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Crap like this just makes me hate this team. I feel like there are too many young guys on this team concerned with things that do not pertain to the game they are paid for.
This happens in every profession and is not singular to hockey or sports in general. It’s the job of a (good) GM to try to parse out this type of thing and put together a roster of similar mindset players with the correct skill sets to fill the roles necessary. I think we all know by now that Holmgren is not that GM.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Agreed, it is in all sports, and I am not blaming the players completely. Though in a perfect world they would just act like adults. But I agree, the G.M needs to put the pieces together and have a roster that can function as a unit and clearly the Flyers are not that. They are a team in name only. Or so it seems.
Coming from a similar cut-throat and competitive (but much less talented) theater world, I can tell you these types of situations are all too common.
However, what I will say is that they tend to drive the players more to compete with one another, so one would think they would push each other harder.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Nonsense
Really I’m sick of these ridiculous rumors. There’s a video floating around of the players waiting to board a bus, and some girl is hollering at Mike Richards. In the video, Richards is standing talking to Jeff Carter, and there’s another player there. I really don’t think that guys who hate each other stand around shooting the breeze. They don’t choose to go out and party and womanize together. It’s absurd.
Well, they get paid either way and all have NTC’s. There’s hardly motivation for them unless they all have the innate desire to win.
This was a similar situation we saw with early aught Phillies’ clubs—but I always thought we just lacked the pitching.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
they did….the Phillies deluded themselves for years into thinking Myers was a number one. He never really was….a good #2 but mentality wise a closer. And we traded away Gavin Floyd who as it turned out is pretty good..perhaps not a staff ace by still young , cheap and now more mature. Let’s face it when have we ever been a pitching club. Hamels was a gift from baby Jesus. He just went a little Damien last year. He hardly spent anytime in the minors so it’s not like we passed on some secret Phillies pitching prowess distilled from the bones of Lefty Grove. Kudos to the scouts. We were basically the Lite beer version of the Yankees for a few yrs. ….we could hit the piss out of the ball but were at times to cheap to buy quality arms or just signed duds or guys marginally better than average. Granted things seem different now esp when we aquired Lee and now Halladay but none of it would have happened hadn’t Myers torn his hip labrum. so ends this installment of my phillies pitching sermon.
Funny how this is brought up after every loss. And you can take that story out of context that was not written yesterday or this week but when. How about on DECEMBER 1st. Things might have changed by now Pronger has been with the team more. This is such an none issue. Did the Steve Yzerman and Mark Messier teams lose a game against a team below them in the standings. They lost a 1-0 game on the road to worst team in the league well guess what that team does have 18 wins. It is an 82 game season you can’t win every game. MarioD loves to rehash this after every loss and doesn’t comment at all following a win except to say with yeah well they were supposed to beat that team. Well if we are supposed to beat everyone besides WSH, PITT, NJD, SJS, and LAK I guess we are a pretty good team after all.
I function well enough to do a perfect imitation of you during your London trip. M from PDaddy responded as if I were really you.
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2010/1/12/1248583/oh-you-wanted-goals-flyers-pound#
Edmonton EDMONTON.
You’re kidding me.
We can’t put A goal the worst team in the entire league? It is surreal this team.
Travis Hughes to be awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for Sports Blogging for having to do this post game write-up
by j reed on Feb 4, 2010 1:14 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Just curious
Does anyone expect the Flyers to do anything but get blasted in the first round of the playoffs, if they make them at all? Because I sure don’t.
It all depends on the matchup…
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
Really? Because I don’t see a team currently seeded ahead of them that the Flyers can beat in a 7 game series. Maybe Buffalo. Maybe.
I can see Ottawa, and I would be intrigued by series against Buffalo and New Jersey. If they can move up, I like series against Tampa and Montreal, or really anyone below them right now…
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
Hard to see them moving up when the team ahead of them has won 10 in a row. Yes the Flyers have probably the easiest remaining schedule of the teams in the Eastern Conference but they just lost to the worst team in the league so it is hard to expect them to do much of anything. They have yet to show me that they can consistently win games, especially games they should win.
Can someone explain to me why Gagne is still on the first line?
No Trade Clause
Just like the rest of the squad who knows they dont need to dig deep b/c they are set in Philly for years!
I understand the contract part, maybe I should rephrase… why is Hartnell still on the ice? Any AHL prospect could score zero goals, take a ton of stupid penalties, and flail around a spastic and fall on his ass every shift.
Don’t forget about all the intercepted passes. My liver is screaming.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
JJ Jinx
I had a bad feeling about this game after Jim Jackson spend the first 5 minutes of the game explaining how we haven’t sweep an Alberta road trip (Oilers and Flames) in over a decade, and how we are 0-5-2 in Edmonton and haven’t beaten the Oilers in well forever. I didn’t make it through the whole game so I won’t comment on the specifics but we need another winger bad or should just go with two top line. Hartnell and Powe and are killing us and bringing down their linemates. I would put them together with Asham on the “No Hands” line and promote JVR and Giroux. From the 1st period what I saw they missed on some good chances and then from what I am reading got to too cute.
Hartnell is killing us, yes. Powe, not so much.
The guy I sit next to at Flyers games has long been saying that Hartnell is not a good fit for Laviolette’s system. I’m starting to agree.
Hartnell needs to do three things, in essence:
1. Get to the front of the net and cause havoc.
2. Score.
3. Not turn the puck over.
He’s been okay at best on point number 1; he’s well off-pace re: number 2, and he’s been abysmal at number 3.
I know he is the kind of guy who gets under the opposition’s skin, but seeing as how we have players like Lappy, Carcillo, and Asham – even, to a lesser extent, Richards – Hartnell’s “agitator” role is redundant. I would trade him for a more even-keeled power forward in about 5 seconds, NTC be damned.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
True, but I wasn’t talking specifically about last night. I was responding to this:
Hartnell and Powe… are killing us and bringing down their linemates.
The use of the present continuous/progressive tense in “are killing” suggests that these players have both been “killing” the Flyers for some time. “Are killing” suggests a continual, ongoing action.
That description fits Hartnell far better than it fits Powe. That’s all I’m saying.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
O lover of stats, please look up the Flyers’ record with Darroll Powe in the lineup.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Why? To prove that there’s no correlation between Powe in the lineup and performance?
A team’s “record with Player X in the lineup” is about as relevant as looking up a team’s record in certain colored jerseys.
I will give you a few fun stats, though:
Goals Against, per 60 minutes of time on ice:
Kalinski (10 gp) 3.54
Powe 3.11
Bartulis 3.07
Nodl (15 gp) 3.07
Syvret 2.54
He actually is high on the team in GF/60, exactly cancelling out his defensive deficiencies (though that may be an error because it seems odd to be the exact same number.)
How about the other players on the ice?
Qualteam .037
Qualcomp (-.046)
CorsiQT 2.623
CorsiQC (-.325)
Either way you look at it (goals or shots) he plays against poor competition with above average linemates.
don’t bother with all the stats if you watch the games you can see that he doesn’t add any offensive to the lines, they have been shuffling him all over the damn place they should just shuffle him to the Phantoms and try someone else. Nothing personal but Powe is a role player and top 6 forward is not his role.
I like Powe don’t get me wrong I don’t like on my top two lines he is just not a top 6 guy he has speed and grit but hands of stone. I rather have Carcillo up there then Powe he has some skill but he Carcillo-Betts-Lappy line is playing so well.
I agree with you on Hartnell 100% he is probably the worst passer on the team especially from the forward position. I have learned one thing this season is that playing down low in front of the net takes a lot more skill that I thought it did. As Yoda once said, “size matters not” or in this case size is not all that matters.
Re: Chico and The Men, they are too good of a unit to break up. I hope the Flyers re-sign Betts.
Chico is not effective on the top-2 lines, though. I agree that Powe is not the answer but he has shown the ability to thrive in those situations. (The Birere-Giroux-Powe line had its moments last year, no?)
I’d really rather we take our lumps this year and take it from there. Hopefully next year guys like Giroux and JVR are ready to contribute more regularly. We’ll see.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Briere-Giroux-Powe
only 1.69% of Briere’s EV TOI last year.
Briere-Giroux-Asham
20.81% of Briere’s EV TOI last year (highest)
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
’d really rather we take our lumps this year and take it from there. Hopefully next year guys like Giroux and JVR are ready to contribute more regularly. We’ll see.
I agree with you on that no need to gamble this year it is certainly not a all or nothing year a buyout might be in order in the off season to unload some contracts or something to try to rebuild this teams chemistry up front. I don’t think there is one single move that will be guaranteed to put us over the top and like we all pretty much said the organization needs to stay patient not go for broke at the deadline.
After the game, I really wanted to blame the missed PP opportunity. I feel like that happens a lot. But I have no idea how/where to find what the Flyers PP% is in the third period, let alone the PP% in the last 10 minutes of the game. If anyone knows how to find that (or do the work to go through game-by-game) that’d be fantastic.
But in my cursory search, I found out that the Flyers have only scored 47 third period goals all year (55 games), 6 of which (presumably) have been empty net goals. That 47 is good for 21st in the league. Washington leads the league with 77 third period goals in 56 games.
Ughh.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 11:24 AM EST reply actions
Good point.
My largest issue with this team is their inability to win games that are tied going into the 3rd period.
Honestly. What do they think is going to happen in the playoffs (if they even get there)? They’re not going to be carrying 3-1 leads into the 3rd period every night. A lot of games will be tied going into the 3rd.
This year we are 3-8-1 in that situation. That is more troubling to me than our record when we come into the 3rd trailing.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
JVR
Since Mario hasn’t said it, I will. JVR was really the guy that was invisible last night. The kid is just soft. I’m sorry, but he is. There was a point in the third where the Flyers were cycling, Giroux had the puck in the corner with an Oiler on him. JVR was on the half wall with an Oiler in front of him. The puck squirted out up the boards and instead of going hard into the Oiler and aggressively punch the puck back into the corner and to Giroux, JVR half-assed it, barely touched the Oiler and the puck was cleared easily. That is just one example, but there were several others where JVR just wasn’t physical enough.
I’m sure that will come, but last night was a great example of the kid needing to use his size more than he does.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 4, 2010 12:34 PM EST reply actions
I agree. But is the argument that he’s not mentally prepared for the NHL or physically? Because he was exactly where he should be positionally, which was Mario’s argument in regards to Atlanta’s goal.
You’re right (Mario pointing out how few hits he has is a perfect example) but he’s at least showing that he will be a very good NHL player, he just needs time. Take that to mean he should be in the AHL, whatever, but what you’re saying can be easily fixed with coaching. Just like the Atlanta goal.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
You’re right (Mario pointing out how few hits he has is a perfect example)
Just spent five minutes trying to figure out where I posted that so I could link to it…
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2010/1/31/1285843/meet-lukas-kraijcek-your-newest#30078461
but what you’re saying can be easily fixed with coaching
I would say experience, not coaching. Otherwise I agree. None of my criticisms have ever been of JVR’s skill or talent. It’s his decision-making. And its not even that he makes stupid decisions, almost all of his poor choices seem to me to be things he could get away with doing at the NCAA level and hasn’t yet adjusted to realize he can’t do it in the NHL.
Experience is a good point. I still think coaching can correct a lot of his problems, but coaching is worthless without experience. And experience is worthless without a coaching to explain what he did wrong and how to fix it.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
As much as he needs a coach, and probably coaching will expedite his development, I have a high enough opinion of him to think that he could figure it out on his own, too.
Either way, this is why it’d be better for him to be getting 19TOI with the Phantoms than 12TOI with the Flyers.
which is my point as well. That third line was at times really good last night and could have been a difference maker if JVR would have been more aggressive.
The problem is that this team can’t really afford for him to be “learning on the fly”, especially now when every point counts.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 4, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
And that’s perfectly valid. But is him “learning on the fly” really what’s holding this team back? It’s not like they have someone in Adirondack that can do what he does, and do it better. Hartnell and Gagne aren’t scoring and Powe is playing in your top-6.
I just think there are other areas to criticize before JVR, although that doesn’t mean I think he’s free from criticism.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
and you can make the same criticism towards any 20 year old rookie in the league he is a rookie going to make rookie mistakes thinking too much, JVR would be destroying the AHL, just like he did in the NCAA and not learning anything and next year he would be worse for it . He might not be scoring at the pace he could but he is not hurting this team with his lack of defensive understanding or turnovers. His +7 season mark is much better than I expected or MarioD -30 prediction.
yeah but I hope hockey isn’t like baseball….the time baseball players spend in the minors is testament to how ass backward the sport is in embracing modern princples of sports training. I imagine hockey to be more evolved in this regard because I can’t but think that ex- Soviet and eastern bloc. trainers didn’t pass along the sports science they essentially pioneered in the 60’s and the 70’s to teams in the NHL
hockey isn’t baseball because it is a much more physical sport as a rookie you are skating and hitting guys you have been playing the game at this level much longer than you, a 20 year old kid is going to be behind things on a the strength side of things he has to put on more weight and get stronger I think Carter entered the league at 170 – 180 lbs and is playing at 200 lbs now JVR is built a lot different and should be playing in the 220 – 230 range.
But then I have to ask would he be better as the star of a really really crappy AHL team or as a secondary player on a middling NHL team?
Like I said last year and at the beginning of the year, the best thing the Flyers could have done with him is put him on the Giroux path: Have him play 30-40 games in the AHL and call him up. They didn’t do that, and I was okay with it, but that would have been optimal.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Feb 4, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
that’s what I was actually HOPING for pre-season.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Feb 4, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Do these guys spend enough time (self-motivated that is) in the video room? If not we need Utley to smack them in the nuts with a baseball bat. That dude is as relentless as a serial killer out of crack. I wonder if they’re is a Hockey IQ test and if so I want to know the scores…..are the we Brain or are we Pinky…..hmmmm. Narf.
But that precisely when the experienced players need to step up their games….They know better, he might not. If I ever use a helper on a job that is still a little wet behind the ears I make sure to pick up their slack because they still haven’t developed the endurance, dexeterity and foresight that guys who have been around a little longer possess. I don’t want to coddle the guy but it certainly doesn’t help if I let him navigate thru the learning curve by himself and the work doesn’t get done or in the case of the Flyers, watching a W turn into a L.
JVR isn't the problem
The problem is that Laviolette still hasn’t figured out who his goto people are on this team. When your most consistent line is your 4th line, there’s a problem there, and you can’t just say it’s with individual players. Part of the problem with the team this year is that they can’t seem to find combinations that click with each other, again with the exception of the 4th line. When you have as much shuffling as the Flyers have had, it’s no surprise that people don’t seem to have chemistry or know what to do with each other. JVR looks confused sometimes, probably because he is. Giroux looks confused, Richards looks confused, Briere looks confused - it’s one of the most confused looking groups I think I’ve seen and part of it has to do with the pressure and the sense of panic that has surrounded this team since the season began.
When you start pointing fingers at Hartnell, who was one of the most consistent workers on the team last year, you also have to start asking yourself, if he’s been put in a position to succeed. The best lines in the NHL are ones where the players have a good sense what their linemates are going to do, and what they as a line are trying to accomplish.
I could go on at length about this subject, but since this is focused on JVR, let’s look for a second at the roles of the line:
What he should be doing:
Giroux – Carry the puck, make plays in the offensive zone
What he does:
Carry’s the puck, makes plays, forechecks and cycles around the boards
Asham should be strong on the forecheck, hitting the defenseman and looking for rebounds around the net and the high slot
What he does:
Carry’s the puck when he has a chance and launches shots from the wing, if he doesn’t get picked off trying one too many toe drag moves.
JVR:
Should be strong on the forecheck, cycling only when needed, crashing to the net, and cycling around the High slot.
What he does:
Goes behind the net and cycles.
The net result: If Asham or JVR lead an attack, there is never another winger there pressuring the defense, so there’s a lot of individual efforts off the angle. Many of these are shots that the worst goalie in the league eats up.
When that doesn’t happen, you will often see all 3 of them behind the net, or cycling along the boards, while at no time putting any sort of pressure on the defense.
Are the players expected to sort this out themselves? Someone in the coaching staff needs to draw up a plan for these guys that involves creating scoring opportunities.
get the two best scoring lines going and we will be fine… l like the idea of demoting hartnell to the third line. i dont like the weakness we have on the first and second line wings, ie- powe and harts… someone here said bump up JVR and Claude. i like that idea only jvr isnt ready… so that leaves one empty hole on the top line… too bad we cant get a ray whitney or a frolov
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New Jersey
|
82 | 48 | 27 | 7 | 103 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
82 | 47 | 28 | 7 | 101 |
|
Philadelphia
|
82 | 41 | 35 | 6 | 88 |
|
New York Rangers
|
82 | 38 | 33 | 11 | 87 |
|
New York Islanders
|
82 | 34 | 37 | 11 | 79 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
Flyers Schedule
Next 5 Games
|
New Jersey
|
Tue 09/21 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Toronto
|
Thu 09/23 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Toronto
|
Fri 09/24 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Minnesota
|
Sat 09/25 | 8:00 PM EDT |
|
@
New Jersey
|
Tue 09/28 | 7:00 PM EDT |
Last 5 Games
|
Chicago
|
Wed 06/09 | OT - L 3 - 4 |
|
@
Chicago
|
Sun 06/06 | L 4 - 7 |
|
Chicago
|
Fri 06/04 | W 5 - 3 |
|
Chicago
|
Wed 06/02 | OT - W 4 - 3 |
|
@
Chicago
|
Mon 05/31 | L 1 - 2 |
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