Dan Hamhuis Headed To Philadelphia?
by Travis Hughes on Mar 1, 2010 10:42 PM EST
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According to multiple reports, the Flyers appear to be close to a deal with Nashville Predators defenseman.
It's become clear that the team is at least up to something, with Riley Cote being put on waivers and Ray Emery being placed on long-term injured reserve, removing their salaries from the cap. Nashville traded for Edmonton defenseman Denis Grebeshkov earlier in the day, creating a situation in which Hamhuis is expendable.
The Daily News reported the rumors earlier on in the day, and now a few national services have picked up the discussions as well. Full details are available after the jump.
Here's what the DN ran with earlier today on their website:
NOW, with the deadline just 48 hours away, I am hearing from league and team sources that the Flyers are talking shop with the Nashville Predators.
That’s not surprising… the Flyers have connections to Nashville GM David Poile, they play in the West, and they nabbed Peter Forsberg from the Flyers a few years back.
The name I keep hearing is Predators defenseman Dan Hamhuis.
Hamhuis, 27, is due to be an unrestricted free agent come July 1. His current cap hit ($2 million) is pretty manageable to fit this season.
Interestingly enough, I’m hearing that the Preds would like to re-aquire Ryan Parent. Nashville drafted him 18th overall in 2005. Parent was part of the Forsberg to Philly swap, even though the Flyers knew about his back problems.
Dirk Hoag at SBN's On the Forecheck discussed Hamhuis in his analysis of the Grebeshkov trade. Here's some of what he had to say:
This is a significant addition to the Nashville defense corps, and likely clears the way for a Dan Hamhuis trade heading into Wednesday's deadline. Preds GM David Poile has often said that moving Hamhuis (who will be a free agent this summer) would be predicated on acquiring a veteran defenseman to fill his role.
Then, following that trade, Darren Dreger and Bob McKenzie of TSN had a few things to say on Twitter. The first message is Dreger and the second is McKenzie:
There is no question the Flyers have had discussions with Nashville regarding Dan Hamhuis. A young d-man is the asking price...likely Parent
Seems logical. Maybe to Phil[adelphia] for Parent. May have to wait for Cote to clear. RT @twiggyalien: Does Grebeshkov deal mean Hamhuis move close?
Of course, to throw the wrench into the well-oiled machine, we get this message from CSN's Sarah Baicker.
Nashville has reportedly asked the Flyers about a number of their players, but NOT Ryan Parent.
8:48 PM update from Baicker on Twitter:
OK so here's what's up guys: Nashville is talking to the Flyers about a number of players. Parent may be in the mix, he may not be.
It'll be interesting to see what happens here, but at the very least it seems that Hamhuis has a chance at being Philadelphia-bound. So let's learn about him a little, shall we?
Hamhuis is a 27 year old defenseman who signed a four-year, $8 million contract with the Predators in 2006. He has a cap hit of $2 million, but his contract expires in July. He's a very smart defenseman who can eat up a lot of minutes effectively.
Obviously, judging a potential deal can only be done by knowing what the Flyers are giving up. If it's the injury-riddled Parent, the move adds a solid contributor to the defense for the remainder of the season without taking away any of the current pieces, considering Parent has only played in 28 games this season.
More importantly, however, it gives Paul Holmgren and company a bit more flexibility this off season when Hamhuis' contract would come off the books. Because Parent was already against the Flyers cap instead of on LTIR as I originally believed, the cap savings really wouldn't matter in a Parent for Hamhuis swap. When other players get involved, of course, it becomes more interesting.
9:09 PM update It appears that more players may be involved, but a deal may not be completed tonight. Two messages from CSN's John Boruk on Twitter have complicated things even more, although the first one has been deleted since it's original posting.
Message one from Boruk, as archived by BSH:
RT @CSNFlyer: I'm told Flyers are not close to a deal with NSH, bc I don't think it's just Hamhuis for Parent. Dan Ellis could be part of it
I'm told Flyers are not close to a deal with Nashville as of Monday night. Dan Ellis NOT involved in a trade scenario...sorry.
Ladies and gentlemen, meet the circus that is the trade deadline.
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if its for Parent
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
JVR or Gagne? Yes, please.
How reputable is the CSN reporter?
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She’s pretty solid. Friend of the site actually, if I may go that far.
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by Travis Hughes on Mar 1, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks. I sure hope thats the case.
BTW, congrats on your new gig.
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Thanks, appreciate it.
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by Travis Hughes on Mar 1, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
You would give up jvr for dan hamhuis?? Why
by flyers17 on Mar 1, 2010 8:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm a Preds blogger, pal
So JVR sounds good to me :)
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Just realized you are not a flyers fan, should of read more
by flyers17 on Mar 1, 2010 8:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not to hijack this rumor thread with analysis
But Hamhuis is pretty physical: He has the third most hits on their D-corps (97 hits in 57 games). He’s also a decent shot-blocker (68 in 57) with a very solid giveaway-to-takeaway ratio (39:34).
If he gets traded here, I’ll do a full write up.
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he's a great player
He’d immediately be your 3rd best defenseman, and on a team like Washington, he’d be a top pair guy for sure. We’d be getting completely fleeced if it was a straight swap for Parent.
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That seems a bit high… Pronger, Timonen, Hamhuis?… Carle, Coburn? I’m not so sure. I can see the argument for 4th, but I can only hope he’d be our 3rd.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Hamhuis is definitely better than Carle and Coburn in my opinion. If either Weber or Suter weren’t in Nashville, he’d be on the top pair.
I’ll be glad to give y’all a scouting report if the trade goes down.
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That would be awesome. I’ll do the same (assuming Travis is too busy with his SBN gig).
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
DM me your email on Twitter, please.
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Geoff is anti-Twitter. It’s at the bottom of the page next to his name, though.
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by Travis Hughes on Mar 1, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
No email next to Geoff’s name— I’ll just send it to the site’s email addy if it goes down.
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Oh, okay. I’ll DM you it on Twitter, then
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by Travis Hughes on Mar 1, 2010 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, and you obviously can’t compare those numbers to players on the Flyers: Nashville credits players with a lot more hits than Philly, same with takeaways. Giveaways seem to be only slightly more credited in Nashville than Philly.
Those numbers should only be looked at in the context of his teammates.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Is is effective, though? Here’s part of his scouting report.
Isn’t a physical defenseman, which somewhat limits his effectiveness against big NHL forwards. Is also a limited contributor in the offensive zone.
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by Travis Hughes on Mar 1, 2010 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
haha, yeah, it’s tough to gauge since Nashville counts a ton of hits. I’m not sure.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
IDK about you, but I occasionally find SBN scouting reports to be inaccurate. He has offensive potential but hasn’t had a need to show it with Weber/Suter/Franson all being better.
He can dole out the hits, and has the frame and wheels to keep with the best forwards. He’s usually matched up with your Kovalchuk-types.
Oh, and most awesomest hip check ever. I almost cried when I saw it live.
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uh, reply fail
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They’ve generally been pretty accurate in my experience, but I haven’t used them a ton. As far as I know, they’re from a third party service that’s widely used, so I’ve trusted them most of the time.
If you say he’s physical, though, I’ll obviously take your word as a guy who watches him night in, night out.
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by Travis Hughes on Mar 1, 2010 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
He’s not Weber or Pronger physical, but more physical than Suter or Timonen, I think (though its been a while for me on Kimmo)
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Im still hoping we can get some more German and Latvian players on this team.
"NO HONOR"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
Hanhuis has been on the Flyers radar for a while now, I think. I remember a year or two ago he was rumored to be coming here.
I’m definitely ok with Parent for Hamhuis straight up.
Oh, This is bound to be good
You can't, but you thought that You could
More importantly, however, it gives Paul Holmgren and company a bit more flexibility this off season when Hamhuis’ contract would come off the books.
That’s just wrong. It does nothing to help or hurt their cap number next year.
The only two ways that sentence can be correct is if (1) you’re comparing Hamhuis to some other acquisition on a multi-year contract or (2) if they trade away some player under contract next season.
Hamhulis is a FA after the season, so his 2mill comes off the books
"NO HONOR"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
The Flyers have $2m in cap space at this moment.
Situation A) If they add Hamhulis, they use that cap space, and on July 1 it reappears again when Hamhulis’ K ends.
Situation B) They don’t do anything, have $2m in cap space up to, on, and after July 1.
It’s the same outcome.
Yeah, but he gives us the better chance to win this year. If all the other teams in the east stay cold, and we get hot, you never know what can happen. at the end of the day, he makes us better for the preset and the 2 mill still comes off the books anyway, so why not make the deal.
"NO HONOR"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
That’s a totally different topic than what I’m saying.
I’m merely saying this is NOT a move to free up salary next season unless some other Flyer is involved.
your right, but I was just pointing out why the move makes sense. I wouldn’t make this move if we decided to keep him after this season, or we are somehow able to trade Hartnell at some point.
"NO HONOR"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
You’re right. I was operating under the incorrect assumption that Parent wasn’t against the cap right now. Thought he was on LTIR.
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by Travis Hughes on Mar 1, 2010 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
Hamhuis’ $2 million cap hit comes off instead of Parent’s 855k cap hit.
That’s over a million in savings, which gives a bit of flexibility.
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by Travis Hughes on Mar 1, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
Update from @sbaicker
Updated the post above with this.
OK so here’s what’s up guys: Nashville is talking to the Flyers about a number of players. Parent may be in the mix, he may not be.
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kinda lame
I could’ve tweeted that. And I know nothing.
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So a potential Matt Clackson and Danny Briere’s abdomin for the rights to Terry Crisp deal could still totally be in the cards?
by Ben Feldman on Mar 1, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
+1 for the Matt Clackson reference.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
Come on gagne, goodbye gagne. Waive the NTC and go to nashville
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 1, 2010 8:56 PM EST reply actions
I'll take that
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I’ll cry, I’m warning you all. If Gagne goes I’ll have to take some time off from the Flyers to think about our relationship.
"NZFlyerfan"
Gagne was fun for awhile, but he’s not worth his contract. To classify his as a top scorer is a mistake. In his current state hes a 20 goals a year type of guy. That’s being generous
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 1, 2010 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
He’s exactly what he is on the Flyers: a second line player who is defensively responsible. On a bad team, he could be a first line player.
He was a good contract when he wasn’t injury prone. But injuries have turned his massive cap hit into something that needs to be forgotten
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 1, 2010 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
They wont trade Gagne. I would forget the notion, because this organization and the fans loves him too much. Think of it like the Upshal trade last year, lots of people will be pissed, and it will kill lots of chemistry. Plus you will be leaving either JVR or giroux on third line duty with Asham and (name random center to play out of position).
"NO HONOR"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
well, if Gagne’s gone, you can then play Leino or Pyorala.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
He’s the new “Cote” but with, you know, potential.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t even know how I would react if that trade went down.
Definitely confusion. I’d be happy because it would be a benefit to next season. Yet, I feel like Holmgren wouldn’t do it for that reason. I feel he would say that he thought Hamhuis was a better player than Gagne so he had to throw in a couple draft picks, and then I’d just be angry again.
I’m told Flyers are not close to a deal with Nashville, bcause I don’t think it’s just Hamhuis for Parent. Dan Ellis could be part of it
Hamhuis and Ellis for Parent and Boucher, then.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
haha, why not throw in Riley Cote too, then?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
OOOOOOH. I like it. Then again, maybe he just read Chris’ counter-offer to you and tweeted it.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
1.75 million.
So we have 2.625 million to play with at the moment. Ellis and Hamhuis will be 3.75 million, and we would be in the hole for 1.125 million until you count Parent and Boucher going the other way and we’re 655K under the cap (plus the cap space we already have).
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Its gets the Preds a guy who wants to be, and is good, as a backup goalie. And it gets them a young, RFA defenseman.
Not saying it happens, just answering the question of why Nashville would do that.
I guess that is better than the alternative, which is losing Ellis and Hamhuis for nothing at the end of the season. It just seems like its not an upgrade in either position which is strange for a team currently in playoff position
"NZFlyerfan"
But they are expendable pieces: they won’t be resigning Hamhuis and Ellis wants a starting job he isn’t going to get in Nashville (Rinne just signed). So they don’t want to lose them for nothing.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I was just working through that in my head. If Rinne goes down in the playoffs they would have Boucher.
They aren’t exactly in a “we must win now” mode as the Flyers seem to be, so don’t need to keep these two guys just in case something happens to someone higher than them on the depth chart
"NZFlyerfan"
The Predators may be in more of a win now mode than we’ve ever been in. Our finances need a playoff series win more than you’ll ever know.
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So management would want to keep both of those guys for a run at the Cup? Or trade them to get a lower payroll?
"NZFlyerfan"
no
We want scoring in exchange for a good defenseman, we already have a great D and need a better PP
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but other then Hartnell, I cant see the Flyers parting with anyone else. Gagne wont go anywhere, and JVR is staying put too. unless that scorer is Asham or Powe, your going to settle for Hartnell.
"NO HONOR"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
3-way!
Nashville gets Raffi Torres
Philadelphia gets Hamhuis
CBJ gets Parent
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Odd, because the Flyers really need the same thing. We need scoring because Hartnell and Gagne are having down years, and Giroux is not producing as much as hoped.
Hamhuis would be a welcome sight on the Flyers blueline, but our D really seems to have settled in lately. I think they’ve allowed 2 goals or less in 13 of the past 14 games.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
untrue
Ellis is better than Boucher, from what I’ve seen of both.
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what?
Ellis is the same player as a backup or a starter?
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What are you talking about.
Ellis does not want to be a backup. Boucher is very good in the backup role. And signed for an extra year. That’s why Nashville would be interested in swapping Ellis for Boucher.
But…Ellis is a better backup than Boucher. So I have no idea why that makes sense. He’s enough better to where letting him walk is OK, and all of this is forgetting the fact that Poile does not want to trade him.
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When a guy all but says “I don’t want to be a backup” and the other guy has proven to be a very happy, and productive backup, you can’t possibly believe that the unhappy player is better as a backup.
Dan Ellis has been kicking ass for the better part of two years, largely as Rinne’s backup.
Not buyin’ it.
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Ellis, who will be an unrestricted free agent at the end of June, says he’ll test the market with the aim of being a starter.
But Ellis, who will be an unrestricted free agent at the end of June, said he likely would see what’s out on the market first since he’d prefer to be a starter.
“It’s a place that you love, and you love the group of guys and love playing here,” Ellis said. "But when they choose to go in a certain direction, you have to see what’s out there.‘’
…
“I have to think they’ll do whatever is best to help their team. I’ve always been a team player in that regard. If the best move to help our team is to move me, I’m all for it.
The guy does not want to be a backup.
ok, say you're right
Does Philly make him the starter?
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vancouver does have prospect goalie Corey Schneider, who won’t be playing for the canucks much now that luongo has his long-term deal and raycroft is the backup….
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You’ve been pushing him for months now!
Alright, alright. Andreas Nodl and John Grahame (he of the tryout contract).
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Ellis ESS%:
09-10: .925 (27 GP)
08-09: .919 (35 GP)
07-08: .927 (44 GP)
Boucher ESS%:
09-10: .923 (17 GP)
08-09: .925 (22 GP)
I’d say they’re pretty even, except Ellis can do it with a heavier work load.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
Did you happen to do the GAA?
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Eh, I’m generally not in favor of that due to obvious team influences, but:
Ellis:
09-10: 2.59
08-09: 2.93
07-08: 2.34
Boucher:
09-10: 2.84
08-09: 2.18
But, everything Mario said above.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
ESS has the same apples to apples comparison problem that GAA has, except it ignores goalie contribution on the PK. I’d argue it’s actually a worse metric.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 1, 2010 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
You’d be totally wrong.
It has nowhere near the problems of GAA. It’s a metric of what the goalie does with the shots he faces. GAA is a measure of goals allowed and is totally biased by the type of defense in front of him. ESS% is compromised only by a difference in the quality of shots against, a much much smaller compromise of its statistical value.
Assuming that the defense is doing largely the same things over a decent sample size, they’re capturing the same data, namely being how often the goalie lets the puck behind him. That’s the only thing that really counts when comparing goalies: how often does one let pucks in by comparison with the other.
ESS only captures even strength save percentage, not the entire time the goalie is on the ice. If we acknowledge that PK situations have an effect on the outcome of the game, I don’t see how throwing out that data improves your metric.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 1, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
You need to take the advice of your signature. You clearly don’t understand what ESS% is trying to demonstrate.
The defense on two different teams is NOT doing the same things. That’s why GAA is a terrible metric and ESS% is not. As I explained in my last post.
GAA is a measure of goals allowed and is totally biased by the type of defense in front of him.
ESS% is compromised only by a difference in the quality of shots against
Who, perchance, controls the quality of shots against? Surely not the defense in front of him.
And if your goalie is supposed to be your best penalty killer, as the old adage says, I’d like to know that information as well.
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by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 1, 2010 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
And if your goalie is supposed to be your best penalty killer, as the old adage says, I’d like to know that information as well
Shoudn’t you look at that using a different metric then?
Both GAA and ESS% are flawed, but ESS% takes out the fact that during a PK the goalie is disadvantaged.
"NZFlyerfan"
Yeah, I personally don’t like either stat all that much, but I think ESS is marginally worse. You really have to look at a whole lot of things when you evaluate a goalie and can’t really rely purely on the numbers. IMO goalies and defensive defensmen are the hardest players in the game to evaluate because their contributions aren’t easily quantifiable or separable from team data.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 2, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Which is why I said it has the same apples to apples problem that GAA has. If you’re using it to compare goalies across teams, it’s not that meaningful.
Example: Luongo had a great ESS% yesterday and it wasn’t because he was playing well. The only valid comparison is another goalie on the same team, behind the same defense over a good number of games. Using it across teams is, at best, no more useful than using GAA. But, since it disregards critical minutes for a goalie, it’s actually worse.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 1, 2010 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
You’re wrong.
I’ve already explained to you why you’re wrong and you’re ignoring statistical proof.
Go read and learn about it. But stop with the stupid ESS% is the same as GAA argument because its flat out wrong.
So Tuuka Rask and Tomas Vokoun are the only goalies better than Semyon Varlamov? Not buyin’ it.
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by red army line on Mar 2, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Do you even read what people write, or do you just type things to see what will happen? Go back and read my post, then come back to me and explain where you have any statistical proof.
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by Knee high to a duck on Mar 2, 2010 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
It has nowhere near the problems of GAA. It’s a metric of what the goalie does with the shots he faces. GAA is a measure of goals allowed and is totally biased by the type of defense in front of him. ESS% is compromised only by a difference in the quality of shots against, a much much smaller compromise of its statistical value.
You are 100% wrong.
Runs:ERA;GAA:ESS%
Isn’t Runs more like GA than GAA? GAA ~ ERA, doesn’t it? More like
Runs: hit% against :: GAA : ESS%
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Mar 3, 2010 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
Chris, the difference is that Mario is saying Boucher is happy in the backup role, where Ellis isn’t. Because of this, he would be better to be playing behind Rinne, not necessarily that Boucher is a better goalie than Ellis.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
I understand what he's saying
What I’m saying is that with Rinne’s inconsistencies, its a much, much safer bet for us to stay with Elly because he is the better goalie than Boucher.
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by Chris Burton on Mar 1, 2010 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. And I agree with that, even though I love Boucher.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Man crush, even.
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by Travis Hughes on Mar 1, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
And if ellis is unhappy, he can be a detriment to the team.
Not to mention Boucher is under contract for next season, and solves a problem Nashville will have in June.
If they’re not confident that Rinne is their starting goalie, they shouldn’t have signed him to a contract extension with a $3.5m cap hit for the next two years. Regardless of whether you trust Rinne or not, the Predators organization has made their decision and Rinne is their starting goalie for the future.
I think every goalie wants to be a starter. The vast majority don’t make it “a detriment to the team”
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by red army line on Mar 2, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
I agree. Just because Boucher has not openly said he is pissed about being a back up doesn’t mean he is happy about it. It just means he is more professional than Ellis.
I do think though that if Nashville becomes a winner Ellis will be happy. I’m sure Martin Brodeur was pretty happy even though he was a backup in Vancouver.
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Mar 2, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
I’m told Flyers are not close to a deal with Nashville as of Monday night. Dan Ellis NOT involved in a trade scenario…sorry.
by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 1, 2010 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
what an f-d up day
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I'm so confused
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All these expiring contract talks, have we really become the Knicks of the NHL?
"NO HONOR"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
Everyone needs to re-read the info we’ve got today. It’s not Parent Nashville wants and Dreger says its a young dman: it’s going to be Marshall or Bourden.
If the deal goes down, it’s going to be (Ellis and Hamhuis) for Boucher/Leighton, Bourdon/Marshall, and Gagne/Hartnell. Thats the only way I see it making any sense.
Let me rephrase:
The above I think is what Hashville proposed. I think Holmgren is proposing Parent in place of Bourdon/Marshall.
See DragonGirl above.
Not bloody likely.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I don’t know then. But there’s something going on. If this was just Hamhuis for Parent it would’ve been announced late this afternoon.
There must be a number of other pieces involved. And there’s only two reasons I can think of delaying the deal:
1) The only pieces I can imagine being argued over are Bourdon/Marshall or Parent.
2) The agreement is in place and the teams are waiting for someone to waive a NTC.
I think it might be a three way, because no way in hades Poile’s only return for DH is Parent—he’s explicitly stated we need scoring now.
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Maybe in addition to a scorer. Hamhuis is far more valuable than Parent.
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That’s not what’s being reported.
And you are wildly overvaluing him. Continued from above when you said he’d be the third best Dman in Philadelphia.
Look, all I’m telling you is what I know. I follow Nashville hockey as close as it can be followed, and I try to keep homerism out of posting on other SBN sites. Poile wants scoring, unless he’s gotten hit in the head and wants to add to our litany of young D which would be stupid.
Parent is worse than Weber, Suter, Klein, Franson and Sulzer, and will be worse than Blum, Ellis, and Laakso.
Also, I know Hamhuis, and he’s just plain better than Coburn or Carle, whether you want to believe it or not.
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If they wouldn’t trade Marshall for Pronger, I doubt that they would for Hamhuil.
"NO HONOR"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
Which would explain why the deal is being held up, and maybe will fall apart. If thats the scenario.
That said, I have no idea what the organization wants with MAB. All I know is that the Ducks wanted Marshall, but the settled for Sbisa. The Flyers could have offered MAB, and Anaheim turned that down. I think both players are 1st and 2nd pair dmen, but I do know that Homer really values Marshall, so I can assume he wont be going anywhere.
"NO HONOR"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
Updated the story
… with messages from Boruk.
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Mixed feelings
Hamhuis would be an excellent upgrade on defense, and his hipchecking ability would quickly make him a fan favorite. But losing Marshall, a dependable defender of the not-too-distant future is too much for a UFA-to-be. Also, if we are talking trade with Nashville, we better be asking about Ellis.
by memphisbrando on Mar 1, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
a few nuckers at Nucks Misconduct are thinking Hamhuis should come to vancouver. one person specifically suggested that demitra would be involved in that trade…..
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no real source though
just ideas, right?
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yeah, just ideas.
a couple people suggested we try for hamhuis, and Space Weed suggested that Demitra would be perfect to send to Nashville in return.
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"God forbid Canadians try and feel any pride at all for any of our accomplishments without some American telling us we aren’t quite as good as they are. All things are relative, and relatively speaking, we freaking rule." Pamplemousse
GO CANUCKS GO!
3-way with Vancouver, then. You guys can just send Kesler over here whenever’s good.
Wishful thinking, I know…
To quote A Tribe Called Quest, “So what’s the scenario?” There are too many anymore.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
we are not trading kesler!
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"God forbid Canadians try and feel any pride at all for any of our accomplishments without some American telling us we aren’t quite as good as they are. All things are relative, and relatively speaking, we freaking rule." Pamplemousse
GO CANUCKS GO!
what if you can't resign him?!?!
Hamhuis for Kesler!!! MAKE IT HAPPEN GILLIS! :P
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i’d be shocked if the extension wasn’t signed by july.
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"God forbid Canadians try and feel any pride at all for any of our accomplishments without some American telling us we aren’t quite as good as they are. All things are relative, and relatively speaking, we freaking rule." Pamplemousse
GO CANUCKS GO!
he’s a RFA right?
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Mar 1, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
believe so, something like that.
i’m still pretty new to all these restrictions, last summer was the first time i ever paid any attention to trades and contracts.
Official Ambassador for Nucks Misconduct.
"God forbid Canadians try and feel any pride at all for any of our accomplishments without some American telling us we aren’t quite as good as they are. All things are relative, and relatively speaking, we freaking rule." Pamplemousse
GO CANUCKS GO!
I know. I wouldn’t either. Bob Clarke wanted him when he was still the Flyers’ GM but nothing happened.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I really hate Kesler, not for his playing ability, but for starting fights with Umberger at OSU.
"NO HONOR"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
yeah, he can really be a SOB on the ice.
Official Ambassador for Nucks Misconduct.
"God forbid Canadians try and feel any pride at all for any of our accomplishments without some American telling us we aren’t quite as good as they are. All things are relative, and relatively speaking, we freaking rule." Pamplemousse
GO CANUCKS GO!
I hate trade deadlines
"NO HONOR"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
You don’t love this??
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 1, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
and the fact the we are getting worked up over something that may not even happen till Wednesday, or at all.
"NO HONOR"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
Following the trade rumors at the trade deadline is better than watching tv IMO. The suspense…the drama…the cheers (and sometimes tears) from the fans…how can anyone not love this?
I am always glued to my computer ALL DAY on deadline day. I can’t wait until Wednesday.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Question: what is the issue with holding onto Hamhuis for next year? He sounds like a pretty solid defenseman, and would help out our depth
TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 2, 2010 8:51 AM EST reply actions
His contract expires at the end of this season and they haven’t been able to negotiate an extension.
I think he is asking why the Flyers would only trade for him to rent him and not try and resign him for next year.
There are though 30 GMs out there. One of them will no doubt be willing to overpay, if not more.
Ovechkin = Green Backs
by red army line on Mar 2, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
What if they resign Hamhuis and let Coburn walk. I know Coburn is a RFA so idk how that works. That Hamhuis is playing a top 4 role and getting paid the right amount.
They have to offer Coburn a contract (“qualifying offer”), which is a raise (5% I think) from his most recent salary. If another team offers something higher, the Flyers can match it or let him walk, receiving draft picks whose location is depended on how much he signs for.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 2, 2010 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
Geoff, why do they have to offer Coburn a contract? What if they can’t afford to offer a contract?
For example, say everyone on the roster but Coburn was contracted for next year, some of those contract’s with built in raises, and those raises take them up to the salary cap. In which case they can not afford Coburn at all, so why do they have to offer him a contract when his is up?
I honestly have no idea, thus why I ask.
They don’t have to offer him a contract. However, if they don’t tender a Qualifying Offer, they’re not eligible for Draft Choice Compensation, per 10.2.ii of the current Collective Bargaining Agreement. Since Coburn makes over $1M, the Qualifying Offer is his current salary. The 5% raise is for players making between $660k and $1M (it’s actually 5% or $1M, whichever is less), and under $660k is a 10% raise.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Ah, thanks for clearing up the raise issue. I remembered reading it, and apparently it was in dealing with Ryan Parent, not Coburn.
But you’re absolutely right. Have to offer to get pick compensation, don’t actually have to offer at all.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 2, 2010 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
I’m still trying to wrap my head around some of the things in the CBA, so chances to reference the straightfoward parts are helpful. There’s so much in there where you’ll be reading section A, which references section B, which references sections Q, W, and T.2.a, that it gets rather convoluted when talking about things like waivers, or what exactly the different Groups of players are (Coburn will be a Group 2 player, since that’s how the CBA refers to RFAs). Something fairly simple like Qualifying Offers is a nice change from figuring out how the heck we actually managed to waive Syvret.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
haha, exactly. The CBA is really, really difficult. Mario’s the expert, DragonGirl is probably the second most knowledgeable, and now we have you learning. Awesome. I’m probably 4th already.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 2, 2010 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
I heard Coburn and Parent would both be going to Nashville in the proposed deal for Hamhuis and hopefully if that happens we would have enough cap room to go after a winger I am so tired on Powe and Carcillo playing with Richards and Gagne.
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New Jersey
|
82 | 48 | 27 | 7 | 103 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
82 | 47 | 28 | 7 | 101 |
|
Philadelphia
|
82 | 41 | 35 | 6 | 88 |
|
New York Rangers
|
82 | 38 | 33 | 11 | 87 |
|
New York Islanders
|
82 | 34 | 37 | 11 | 79 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
Flyers Schedule
Next 5 Games
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Thu 10/07 | 7:00 PM EDT |
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@
St. Louis
|
Sat 10/09 | 8:00 PM EDT |
|
Colorado
|
Mon 10/11 | 7:00 PM EDT |
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Tampa Bay
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Thu 10/14 | 7:00 PM EDT |
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Pittsburgh
|
Sat 10/16 | 7:00 PM EDT |
Last 5 Games
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Chicago
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Wed 06/09 | OT - L 3 - 4 |
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Chicago
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Sun 06/06 | L 4 - 7 |
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Chicago
|
Fri 06/04 | W 5 - 3 |
|
Chicago
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Wed 06/02 | OT - W 4 - 3 |
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@
Chicago
|
Mon 05/31 | L 1 - 2 |
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