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Wednesday Morning Fly By: Recaps, GM Meetings, and Cavemen

Today's open discussion thread, including your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news...

  • Last night's NHL scores... Flyers 3 - Islanders 2; TOR 4 - BOS 3 (OT); CGY 4 - DET 2; NSH 2 - ATL 1; MTL 5 - TB 3; FLA 3 - MIN 2 (SO); VAN 6 - COL 4; OTT 4 - EDM 1; CLB 5 - ANA 2
  • Recaps of last night's win: [BSH] [NHL.com] [Lighthouse Hockey] [Daily News] [Inquirer] [The700Level] [CSNPhilly] [DelcoTimes]
  • Photos from last night: [Philly.com]
  • Apparently Dan Carcillo required 27 stitches to close the cut on his leg.  James van Riemsdyk needed "about the same on his chin."  I thought he got hit on the hand... [CSNFlyer]
  • The GM meetings led to a few stories.  Here's one showing what ideas are being floated: [Puck Daddy]
  • Obviously, headshots are being widely discussed. [Daily News] [CSNPhilly]
  • And there was an example of one last night when Ryan Whitney cross-checked Chris Neil in the neck. [Puck Daddy]
  • Another story on the Flyers' fourth-line.  But Laviolette doesn't like numbering them. [Inquirer]
  • Remember that picture of Carcillo as the Geico Caveman?  Here's video from the Winter Classic, where Carcillo shows evidence and proclaims both he and Ray Emery went as the Caveman for Halloween.  The caveman also had something to say to Scott Hartnell. [The700Level]
  • Speaking of the Winter Classic, don't expect one in Yankee Stadium any time soon. [SB Nation]
  • From Monday night's game, Marty Turco had a pretty funny reaction to Alexander Semin's shootout attempt.  I believe that's him laughing. [Puck Daddy]
  • Stats time!  Who are the biggest under- and over-achievers in Corsi numbers this year? [Behind The Net]
  • Looking at points percentage for forwards - the number of points a player gets as a percent of goals scored while they're on the ice. [The Copper & Blue]
  • And for defensemen. [The Copper & Blue]
  • Who will the Flyers likely face in the playoffs?  How about Buffalo or New Jersey. [Puck Prospectus]
  • Interesting quote regarding Sami Kapanen's brother.  Rather than repeat it, we'll just link to it.  It's definitely not appropriate.  Or accurate. [euroflyers]
  • This day in history:  The Flyers drop 11 on the Penguins in 1985. [The700Level]

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nothing for Cooke

That is ridiculous no penalty no fine no suspension nothing at all for a forearm shiver to the head. I thought hitting the head feel under the 2 minutes for Roughing, it should I kind of remember it being called that way. NHL is a joke, Cooke is a repeat offender anyone have a link to a statement from Campbell explaining why no action was taken.

by chrislanci on Mar 10, 2010 11:06 AM EST reply actions  

Where are you seeing that? Last I saw, they hadn’t made a decision on a suspension…

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Mar 10, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, supposedly the hearing is at 12:30, at least as being reported by Bob McKenzie from TSN. But he also stated his opinion that ’he’ll be surprised if he’s suspended’, maybe that’s what people are referring to?

by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 10, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Daily News article said no supplementary action was taken it didn’t mention a hearing or anything how long does it take that hit was when Sunday.

by chrislanci on Mar 10, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

League can wait till the teams next game.

by Pondhockey on Mar 10, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions  

can anyone find a screen cap of the hit (can’t use youtube at work)? i really want to make sure this wasn’t an elbow to the head.

Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance

by psudrozz on Mar 10, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Go to Puck Daddy on Yahoo Sports, they have it in the blog “No Suspension for Matt Cook for Blindside of Savard”. Rediculous.

by Pondhockey on Mar 10, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions  

in review, cooke uses his elbow. richards uses his shoulder. it’s distinct.

FTR has a similar post.

Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance

by psudrozz on Mar 11, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

i was watching the shootout in the caps/stars game, and turco’s reaction was priceless. i don’t think he was laughing-his eyes were wide open and he seemed to be saying “what the f$%k was that?”. it was more akin to one’s intitial reaction to the semin “o you brute” fight last year.

Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance

by psudrozz on Mar 10, 2010 11:35 AM EST reply actions  

I’m not sure if it’s him, but you definitely hear a laugh right as Semin goes into the boards.

Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 10, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya I noticed that too. I think Turco definitely said something because as Semin skated away he pushed his stick into Turco’s pad.

by flyrsfrk05 on Mar 10, 2010 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

pens vs boston next thursday evening.

I wonder what Jack Edwards’ laugh will sound like if there is some nasty retaliation.

see, what Boston should do is go after Pittsburgh’s best center. That would even things out in my mind.

Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance

by psudrozz on Mar 10, 2010 3:25 PM EST reply actions  

Vigilantism. I completely agree with this logic. It’s not just because it’s Pittsburgh, but because it’s sports in general. In baseball if you plunk one of my guys, I’ll plunk one of yours. This retaliation would happen regardless if there was a suspension or not. This is hockey, and maintaining elasticity is the top concern.

TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 10, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

and what play mailbox baseball with some else’s head who wasn’t invovled in the original incident…the research on concussions has really just begun and don’t expect, “oh, it’s not as bad as we thought”…

by j reed on Mar 10, 2010 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I think of it this way: For what reason did Matt Cooke hit Savard? It wasn’t premeditated, it was simply a player going across the middle with his head down. If say someone like Sidney Crosby or Jordan Staal were to being going across the middle with his head down, I don’t see how a Bruins player wouldn’t hit either one of them. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If Matt Cooke took into considerations the repercussions of his hit, maybe he wouldn’t have done it. But obviously he has no idea the price he has put onto his other teammate’s heads. I’m sure if more players thought about what they did, before they did it, there wouldn’t be this many dangerous hits. Maybe the proper reaction this time (dangerous or safe) will prevent this issue from happening again.

Hell, maybe this will cause the league to evaluate all of the teams, instead of just pointing the fingers at Philadelphia (amongst other teams) and acting like the issue isn’t nationwide.

TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 10, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I am definitely against this. Who knows what motive Cooke had and even though it was probably just him being a “dirty” player (although I can’t quite tell from the video), I know that Exhibit A in this whole mess is Richards hit on Booth (who while not in the echelon of say Crosby) is still the Panthers superstar. While most Flyers fans, myself included, believe the Richards hit was clean and an example of what happens when a player goes over the middle with his head down, there was also a large majority of people that thought the hit was dirty. How would have we felt as fans if say Tarnasky came across the middle in a subsequent game and took Carter’s head off, because that is essentially what we are advocating here.

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 10, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I am against it, too. It would turn too ugly. The league just needs to enforce the rules it currently has. Richards was at least assessed a penalty on his hit, so Cooke should receive a fine since he wasn’t penalized on the ice.

Cooke also has a history. So there is that. I thought guys with histories get more heavily scrutinized. Guess not.

"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko

by doubleh on Mar 10, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Someone will die and then prosectors and legislative bodies will get invovled.

by j reed on Mar 10, 2010 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

besides he looks like a snitch…so does Carcillo

by j reed on Mar 10, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

tell that to carcillo

Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance

by psudrozz on Mar 10, 2010 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

i think he knows that …that’s why I like him

by j reed on Mar 10, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

that’s kind of my point. Would you as a teammate give a shoulder to head hit if you knew that the same thing would happen to your teammate? The problem is is that in these hits Cooke as nothing to worry about. He didn’t get a suspension. He got a slap on the wrist and a don’t do it again. Perhaps Bettman would take these things seriously, if say a Bruin gave Crosby a concussion. But per the same rules, a suspension wouldn’t be given. The NHL is hiding behind their rule book because none of their stars have been on the wrong side of the hit. This problem doesn’t change until a meaningful NHL team loses a very important star

TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 10, 2010 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

BTW-your namesake has now played 2 straight solid games

Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance

by psudrozz on Mar 10, 2010 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

he’s having a down year. Luckily, he hasn’t been traded yet. I’d have to go get a new name

TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 10, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

What’s the ratio of permanent brain damage to justice served. And in the guilty by assosication scenario whose the sacrifical lamb that may loose the IQ points to the noggin’ knock. And whose to do the hurting cause they’ll be doing it to an innocent person, not an enemy combatant. And what happens if it gets out of hand, you assuming that fear will control people…historically that hasn’t keep the human race from killing one another as the recent sectarian slaughter of 200 nigerians attests. I think the solution might be technological like a sensor sewn into the uniform that tracks the whether or not the player arms reach a certain height. Sync it with the time of the hit that way there’d be little wiggle room argue.

by j reed on Mar 10, 2010 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Whose to say that prohibition of an act will stop the occurence? Drugs are illegal, yet they are still in mass use. The sensor business? If that were to occur, I’d turn the game off, put the controller down and walk away. As much as I’m concerned with these athletes and their brains, they’re undertaking a risk and being paid mightily for it. They choose to go out there and play a dangerous sport for our entertainment.

Those 200 Nigerians? The example has nothing to do with hockey, therefore I don’t see the point of it being on this board.

These NHL players are paid by the millions to play a contact sport. You want to prevent hits to the head? Have a protector on every line that protects the key players on your team.

TAKE THE FALL, ACT HURT, GET INDIGNANT

by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Mar 10, 2010 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Whose to say that prohibition of an act will stop the occurence

I guess we should stop prohibiting murder, cause it keeps happening.

Drugs are illegal, yet they are still in mass use

Because fear of imprisonment isn’t a strong motivator. Just as fear of violence isn’t or getting ass raped buy Bubba John Jack. Or the death penalty. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have a legal system. Just because it’s a contact sport doesn’t mean you signed up for an intentional 30 mph no-play blindside or elbow in the the face. Concussions will occur it is part of playing the game, and someone could still die but if the hit is legal then yes its unfortunate result of playing the game as intented but what your advocating is intentionally smashing someone’s head or no-play blindside at speeds up to 20-30 mph. That’s assault and that’s against the law. And assigning someone whose athletic talents bring little to the game to do in today’s game which is considerably faster and stronger is ethically questionable to say the least. It’s 2010. Besides isn’t this why they have the fights? They are harmless (see post below). I have no problem with those. And with parity why spend money on some unskilled player, which most of these guys are when you need a someone to who can contribute to wins. As to the concussions consider this: just getting boarded can cause more brain damage than getting punched in the face or kicked in the head which I can speak to. Not over a long period of time…by incident. It’s the rapid decleration that causes the problem because the brain slams into your skull for the most part (see post below). I have no problem with contact sports, I watch MMA..I kickboxed. Hockey despite the bar fighting is not a combat sport. There is nothing sporting, skilled or honorable about a 200 lb man reaching considerable speeds and intentionally hitting people in the head or no-play blindsiding them . And for your system of justice to work who are gonna be the first handful of victims because according to your logic fear inspires obedience and they have to have something to be scared of. And so by your system what if someone dies at the hands of said enforcer who is sent out dole out some justice…it’s not like a boxer dying, it’s a combat sport where the purpose is to inflict harm on one another. This is not the intention of hockey from what I understand.

by j reed on Mar 11, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I would say a consequence of more finese play is the tendency for players to skating with their heads down as with the Devil’s kid…his head was down for the entire play. He was oblivious. This tendency doesn’t apply to all of the players in this category but they all can’t be as gifted as the Ovies, and Sids. My sensor idea wouldn’t work I reviewed the various hits over and it’s not feasible. The one thing that might work is that players for this type of check must not sure up with their shoulder by taking one hand off the stick and forming an “L” with a bent elbow. Perhaps that is not standard checking techinque but it will require guys to hit with the backside or side of the shoulder would dissipate the force more and possibly have the same desired affect of keeping the opponent from making a play on the puck.
There is a reason why tight-ends are big and are over middle guys in football and why many a receiver drops a ball in those stituation either because they get hammered or their scarred of it. Some of these kids are just skating thru the middle like la de frickin da. That’s one thing I have to say about our boys they for the most part they skate with their heads up….

by j reed on Mar 11, 2010 3:18 AM EST up reply actions  

have a ice brawl…they are harmless other than comestic damage…the force you generate is lost to the ice. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction can be demostrated by throwing a punch on ice in skates. There is little to no friction force from the ground to counter the rotational force the body genetates to punch something. Thus you slide backwards. Obviously when one guy falls to the ice then you have a real bare knuckle fist fight which is when eye sockets can get crushed. Boarding and 30 mph illegal checks have the potenial for more damage because once against the boards the forces are no longer dissipated to the ice as in the aforementioned example which means the kinetic energy of a 20-30 mph 200lb man is transfer to the intended target . The open ice hit not only takes advantage of the speed of the of the hitter (X) but that of the hit (Y) as they are usually moving fast. In this stituation the Y’s velocity decreases the time of contact between the X and Y. This means more force accoring to the impulse momentum equation which is force equals momentum (mass * velocity) divided by time. Think boxing. A boxer will mitigate the force of a blow he can’t otherwise avoid by leaning or shifting his weight back which increases the time of contact between his face and the oncoming glove. In reverse, the stituation is all smell the glove becuse the boxer is moving into the punch and thereby decreases the contact time. The issue with either scenario is the rapid decleration. As per inertia, when the human body declerates quickly the brain hasn’t… literally. Why, because it is suspended in cerbrospinal fluid that supplies the brain with nutrients. Think car accident. The car stops but he body inside (if not harnessed) doesn’t until it meets something to stop it. To your brain that’s your skull. The luger’s brain who died at games probably looked like mashed potatoes. The recent studies on rats showed a flattening and elongation of cells in certain parts of the brain. Researchers don’t know the the exact relationship between this and post concussed side effects but unlike muscle and other soft tissue of the organs which are for the most part too elastic to transmit forces, to see this in a mammillian brain which is relatively soft, I think “THIS IS FUCKING BAD” a fair assesment.

by j reed on Mar 10, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  


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