Source: Flyers want young goalie to build around
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 11:18 AM EDT
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PrintFinally! In news that Flyers fans have been waiting to hear since the team traded for Eric Lindros, Anthony SanFilippo is quoting a source from inside the organization that the team's number one priority is acquiring a young goalie this off season.
Obviously, this is but one anonymous source, so it is by no means a guarantee. However, with the way this season has gone -- Emery, Boucher, Leighton, Backlund all getting hurt -- the team appears to finally want to resolve their goaltending issues once and for all.
The relevant portion of the quote:
"It's already been decided that our No. 1 priority for next season is to get a goalie. We have to go out and get that player and commit to him as our guy.
"It's probably going to mean somebody is going to have to be traded away, especially if we go after a young goalie on another team, but that's what we're going to have to do. We can't keep going the way we have been. The goalie has to be the most important target and we don't want to keep replacing one veteran with another. We want to get a guy who can be our goalie for several years.... We have to go in another direction."
You'll notice that there weren't any names mentioned in that quote, but SanFilippo proceeded to toss out Antti Niemi, Cory Schneider and Carey Price.
While it shouldn't need to be said, going out and acquiring any "young goalie" doesn't immediately mean you've acquired a guy who will "be our goalie for several years." But the simple fact that the team is looking to do that via trade should at least instill some optimism among Flyers fans.
This also could mean that the team is not going to resign Ray Emery or Michael Leighton, though that isn't guaranteed. Any trade with another team could mean Brian Boucher goes the other way, leaving the Flyers in need of a backup goalie. with Leighton or Johan Backlund being two possible targets.
But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. The news today is that the team finally realizes they can't just keep signing veterans and hoping they have another run or two in them. It also means that their many young goalie prospects (Joacim Eriksson, Nicola Riopel, Jacob De Serres, Adam Morrison) aren't any where near being ready to take the reins of the Flyers.
So, Flyers fans, rejoice. But stay modest, since this is just a quote from an anonymous source. Don't forget to head on over to SanFilippo's blog to get the whole quote and analysis.
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And since Holmgren went 1/3 in the plan he laid out for last offseason, I think you should probably put the cork back in that bottle.
problem with this plan now is that Holmgren already went all in with the Pronger deal and acquiring a young goalie that may/or may not be NHL ready means we’re probably looking at a few years before the guy is dominant and then the window to winning it all has closed.
Par for the course though with the Flyers, always seem to have a key piece of the puzzle missing. If they have a decent goalie, they don’t have enough offense on the wings, if they have a goalie and offense, the defense is terrible, etc. etc.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 29, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
possible “lost” reference?
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
Either way, that episode was nuts.
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by Travis Hughes on Mar 29, 2010 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That episode was rather awesome. I particularly enjoyed the contradicting (or not) manner in which the Black Rock came ashore.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I would totally crap my pants if they’d play the smoke monster noise after a goal instead of stealing the Bro Hymn from various west coast teams.
by BroadStreetBully on Mar 29, 2010 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Well they did say young…. I don’t think 33 is young even by the Flyer’s twisted definitions.
by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 29, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
This really doesn’t mean all that much to me. This team just has so many problems. While getting a good “young goalie” (whatever that means) is a step in the right direction, this team could have Luongo in net and would still lose. Not to mention that I don’t really trust the Flyers front office like Mario and Pdaddy already said.
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by Mitchell Green on Mar 29, 2010 11:37 AM EDT reply actions
you guys crack me up this is what you been clamoring on and on about for the entire season now you hear something that should make you happy and you still have nothing good to say about it jesus some name one thing Homer said he was going to do and didn’t
wasn’t trading Carter and didn’t
wanted to move to a more aggressive play style and did
wanted to upgrade Defense and he went out and got Pronger
more vets and role players to lessen the PK roles of top players added Lappy and Betts
Mostly because of goaltending injuries. I mean, they haven’t been playing great, but there’s a ton of talent on this team. The reason most people give in response to “Why can’t we string together 4-5 weeks of great hockey in April/May like we’ve done twice already this season?” is Brian Boucher.
You actually put this team chance of winning the Cup at zero? I’m generally not optimistic, but I’m also not a fatalist.
I will go zero. I am looking forward to the offseason to really be critical of what they do and don’t do to change the last 10 years of mediocrity and let-down.
Just Call Me "M"!
I was telling my wife (a huge Flyers fan as well) the same thing. I want them to do well in the playoffs and go as far as they can, but realistically if they get out of the first round they’re overachieving. That said, looking forward to the offseason to hopefully correct some things.
Well, it’s mathematically not zero. It’s mathematically not zero for the Rangers or even the Panthers right now too. Realistically, though? It’s probably under 10 percent.
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by Travis Hughes on Mar 29, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
so you’re saying there’s a chance!!!!!!!!!!!
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by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 29, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Talent is one thing. Playing as a cohesive unit is another. How many big market teams in all sports do you see just buy up big names and throw them together? Granted, sometimes it works in baseball, but I don’t think that requires the same team glue that hockey does. Also, I’m not saying this is the case exactly with the Flyers, but I think the problem with this team isn’t lack of talent, but rather having a bunch of pieces that don’t seem to fit just right.
I agree. It certainly looks that way 90%. But if your complaint is “Homer didn’t give us a contender,” I don’t think that’s correct. I don’t think the team he gave us will win the Cup; but the fact that they still have a chance after the starting goalie went down is a sign that he’s done some things not wrong.
Of those mentioned, Price is the only option
Price has an awesome pedigree and would not be a big cap hit. Schneider hasn’t been tearing up the AHL this year and the Blackhawks won’t give up Niemi.
Let me toss out another name for speculation: Jonathan Bernier. He is, by far, the best goalie in the AHL, and perhaps the best prospect at his position.
Just beware, any of the above mentioned will cost the Flyers dearly. A top forward or defenseman will have to be moved. But, in my opinion, it has to be done — the Flyers have to get serious about their goaltending at some point.
Bernier is a great addition to that list.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I keep reading that Bernier’s the real deal, and Quick’s only two years older and has very much become LA’s present and future in net. So I’d without a doubt pursue him this offseason if I were Homer.
by Ben Feldman on Mar 29, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Two, actually. Lombardi was a scout here for a few years. LA is sorta like Flyers West, so maybe we could swing a deal with them since they took Jones “off our hands” for us…
by Ben Feldman on Mar 29, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
So what if LAK says they want to hold Bernier and offer Quick? Are you sold on him being a solid No. 1 for the future?
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
I think him being chosen for the US Olympic team, albeit as the third-string goalie, says something. I’d still want Bernier over Quick though.
I’d take either guy, especially if it meant we might actually be able to off-load some underperfoming parts. I’m not convinced we have anything that LA needs though.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 29, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, LAK isn’t going to just take bad contracts and underperforming parts. They need to start preparing right now for the salary cap hell they’ll be in when they need to re-sign Doughty and JJ.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
I don’t think they are going to resign JJ. Their GM seems to have a strong dislike him. JJ will most likely get traded.
Where did you get the dislike from? I’ve heard some knocks on UM but I thought they liked his progression. If they do move JJ they can probably get a pretty nice haul in return.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
Bernier has the pedigree for sure, but he has stalled in the last couple years IMO. Either that or LAK is being extremely cautious. Team USA picking Quick does say something, and in retrospect you have to like their player selection, but I am still undecided on Quick. One more year would probably seal it for me but I don’t know how much I’d be willing to give up for him right now. Might be a “sell high” situation for LAK if they think Bernier is ready.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
You know it’s bad when you have to create an additional rumor to make you feel good about the initial rumor. Still…Bernier would be more promising than another conundrum goalie (Price, Schneider) or one-year wonder (remember why you got Nittymaki?).
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by Bettman's Nightmare on Mar 29, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
You know it’s bad when you have to create an additional rumor to make you feel good about the initial rumor.
The “initial rumor” does not mention names at all. The names listed above were mentioned by SanFilippo, speculating by himself names that fit the quote he got.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Nevermind, then…you know it’s bad when you have to create four rumors to make you feel good about the initial rumor.
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by Bettman's Nightmare on Mar 29, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I still disagree. I feel good about the quote, even without speculating names. Hell, this list would go on and on.
Why not add in Braden Holtby and Michal Neuvirth?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s just like someone else mentioned above…we’ve been down this road a few million times. There was exuberance when Emery was signed, too…kind of surprised we’re throwing in the towel on him already.
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by Bettman's Nightmare on Mar 29, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Nm, I didn’t see the “degenerative bone disorder” part of the injury…
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by Bettman's Nightmare on Mar 29, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ve been down this road before? I seem to remember a parade of veterans/guys supposedly in their prime constantly walking through the Flyers crease: Biron, Esche, Cechmanek, Vanbiesbrouck, etc. Esche was the closest this team came to a “young goalie”, but he wasn’t exactly highly touted.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure the problem was that they were veterans. I think the bigger problem is they didn’t play very well, or didn’t play very well for very long.
I mean, Biron was moderately touted, and performed about to expectations in the playoffs. Esche was what he was: young, one or two surprisingly good seasons, a hot mess after that. Cechmanek was a flier on a guy we thought had huge upside, but fell to his absolute batshit insanity. Vanbiesbrouck let in goals short side.
They all had different reasons for failing, none of which had to do with being sold as “in their prime.” While I agree that a young goalie would be great to have around if he could play consistently for 3-4 years, I wouldn’t attributed the failure of the Flyers’ plan as going after veterans. I’d see it as “these goalies weren’t good enough to win with these teams, regardless of age.”
I agree with everything you said. But I was responding to the notion that the Flyers have “we’ve been down this road a few million times.”
“This road”, assuming he’s talking about the story, is going after a young goalie who can be the guy for several years. The guys I named do not fit that description, thus we have not been down that road at all recently.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Looking now, that makes perfect sense. I thought you were making a statement by asking the question incredulously.
I’m generally an R-word at following these reply streams/who is replying to who/whatever the hell we are calling.
haha, no problem.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I was wondering where your interest would be on those guys. FWIW I think Neuvirth might be more available because he’s running parallel with Varlamov in terms of development. They could move Neuvirth and keep Holtby as the Plan B. Given how Holtby has played this year I can’t see GMGM moving him unless someone makes an offer he can’t refuse. Those don’t often happen with unproven goalie prospects.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
I feel like I said something about this earlier in the year, and I’d love to raid the Hershey Bears goalies. I’d prefer Neuvirth (he’s closer to being ready than Holtby and I don’t like Varlamov’s inability to cover the top of the net), but am curious how expensive he would be.
Assuming the Caps need defense, the Flyers might not have enough to swing that trade.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I should clarify: Assuming the Caps need proven defensemen, since I’m aware you have tons of stud defensive prospects.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. I can’t read GMGM’s mind so I don’t know where he thinks we are. I’d take Coburn in a heartbeat but I think GMGM may also do Neuvirth for a First and try to restock the pond. Carlson looks like he’s ready, and Alzner will almost certainly be up next year opening day. Another top 4 D would make me happy but I don’t know how much we can afford to pay them; we may have to roll with the prospects and save money with their ELCs.
Neuvirth is definitely closer to being ready and on most teams would probably have been in the NHL this entire season. Long term I could see him being better than Varlamov (and I could see Holtby being the best of the 3).
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
Well, get GMGM to take Coburn for Neuvirth, and then we can hold a trade faxing ceremony and declare our two fanbases united through our peace efforts.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
bravo, except you have to shoot mariod first.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 29, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know where Ben is but we had some peace efforts over the weekend.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
Well, he’s our Ambassador. Which means he’s probably out getting syphilis from your women.
(Ben Franklin reference, since it probably wasn’t that clear.)
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That explains the wig…
It was a good time, any of your other DC residents can join us next time too, if they feel so inclined.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
I’m here, but staying fairly silent since I cannot let myself believe that getting Carey Price is actually a possibility for this team. He’s about sixtieth on the list of goalies I most want starting for the Flyers next year.
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by Ben Rothenberg on Mar 29, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this a Rothenboost, or true opinion? You should watch what you say from now on, you have mystical powers.
"NZFlyerfan"
This is true opinion. Does no one else remember him in the 2008 playoffs? He singlehandedly won us that series.
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by Ben Rothenberg on Mar 29, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, and weren’t they the number one seed? But didn’t he also have to deal with the crowd giving him some of the same treatment that ran Roy out of town? I’m not saying I definitely want him, but I’m not 100% against the idea…. I’m on the fence I guess.
by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 29, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but yes is also the answer to these questions:
Has he only won 13 of his 37 decisions this year?
Has he lost his last six playoff starts, including being pulled twice?
Has he been called out by teammates for not trying?
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by Ben Rothenberg on Mar 29, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t know, but I think getting it from the teammates is way worse.
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by Ben Rothenberg on Mar 29, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I got a real hottie today, just for you…
http://www.thedailyforehand.com/2010/3/30/1396618/kuznetsova-azarenka-sent-home-with
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by Ben Rothenberg on Mar 30, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions
What about Neuvirth?
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s too odd looking.
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by Ben Rothenberg on Mar 29, 2010 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Price is RFA if he is not going to cost a huge cap hit they can just offer him contract and work out the compensation I much rather get one of these young guys then have some over paid Vet on the downside of his career I think a change of scenery will do a ton for Price.
I would trade anyone not named giroux and jvr for Bernier. That kid is solid, plus you know he’s not gonna back up Quick. This deal would work well for both teams.
"Sugah n' rainbows"
"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
At least Bernier is a trade, and not dealing with the RFA compesation nightmares, which could encourage overpaying. I don’t want to give up Giroux either, he may be in a rut right now, but he’s got crazy amounts of potential I don’t want to give up. But I think my list of guys I wouldn’t give up is far longer than yours.
by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 29, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea I think seeing the conversation above singing RFA’s is not the path the Flyers can take.
Just Call Me "M"!
I think I at least partially started that on the other thread….. I had considered writing a fanpost on the numbers game of it, but I was originally going to wait til the offseason for that.
by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 29, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
hockeysfuture.com states that the kings weakness in their prospect system is their lack of left wingers, how about wellwood+maroon or rinaldo for bernier
by flyersfangiroux on Mar 29, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Good research. Do you know much about Wellwood, because I don’t. All I know is that he has a lazy, under-performing brother. And Rinaldo just got suspended 12 games, but I’d definitely make that trade.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 30, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, exactly. And if you think about it, that looks pretty fair. Maybe LA should throw in a pick, but it pains me to say that is probably realistic.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 30, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Only if we’re already conceding that JVR isn’t anything near what we want him to be. I think Homer would pull the trigger, because he’s impatient (and because he knows being a made man in Sniderland is like being a made man in a Scorcese movie—they’ll off you eventually).
This is on the assumption that there’s an 80% chance JVR isn’t a bust. I don’t know enough about Bernier, but looking at his experience, he’s got to be around the same percentage.
As in, I’d be against it, because I think there’s still a decent chance JVR is potting 35-40 goals a year by age 24.
But that’s exactly why I think it’s fair: There’s still a decent chance Bernier (who will be 22 in August) has a .915-.920 save percentage by age 24. That’s a pretty fair trade off.
I’m not saying I’d make that trade (or that I wouldn’t), just saying it sounds a lot more fair than Eric Wellwood and Pat Maroon for Bernier.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 30, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Goalies have a lot more risk associated with them that forwards. And some goalies like Leighton can dominate at the AHL level and be well Michael Leighton in the NHL. I would rather move Giroux than JVR, we need all the wingers we can get and for some reason this organization wanted to move him to center and Danny to wing.
From my research, both the Canadiens and Kings are very deep in goaltending talent/prospects, so it seems very legitimate to consider either team a trading partner.
Maybe the Canadiens still covet Danny Briere? I have heard rumors of Hartnell going to LA much of this season.
I’d have heard a lot about Schneider and trading with a western conference team makes more sense as well.
Who knows, I’d still have rather had Vokoun at the trade deadline. That gives you at least one more season of above average goaltending before he becomes a FA and enough time to potentially groom a prospect who isn’t quite NHL ready.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 29, 2010 1:00 PM EDT reply actions
The Habs may still covet Briere, but I don’t think he’d waive his NMC to go there. He had his chance to play there and didn’t want to go. I get the impression that a lot of French Canadian stars don’t want to play there because of the absurd pressure.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
I’d love to get Price, but pardon the pun, the price probably won’t be right. Inconsistent goalie that likes to party so much that the coach/GM called into question his work ethic. Don’t get me wrong, that guy would fit in perfectly with this team, I just can’t see Holmgren wanting any part of more off ice issues, unless the Canadiens are offering him at a discount rate.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 29, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha. Good points. You figure either Price or Halak will be available and I’d probably lean toward Halak at this point (though maybe that means MON is as well).
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
Yeah, I’d prefer Halak too. But I think Montreal shares our opinions.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Who knows what the Canadiens will do. If we got Halak or Price for some prospects in the AHL or some 3rd or 4th line guys, I’d be fine with it, but I’m not that convinced that either of those guys is really the real deal.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 29, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty sure they’ll want more than that. But hell, Darroll Powe and Andreas Nodl for Halak in a second.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought
the rumor around January was that Montreal wanted Giroux. I have not made up my mind on Price but I think I would take that deal. I have definitely seen Price steal games But he has never played particularly well against us at least not lately. His save percentage is .912 which is 17th in the nhl same as Turco’s and Marty’s. Havalt’s is 0.922. However, Price has played better against playoff caliber teams then Havalt. and more often.
Here are GA for Havlat against playoff teams
NJ-4, OTT 2, Bos 3, La 4, Phi 5, Pitt 5, Bos 2, Van 2, Ott 2, Nj 1, Ott 4, Buff 4, Ott 1, Buff 6, Pitt 6,
Price Buff 2, SJ 3, Bos 1, Phi 3, Was 6, Ott 4, Was 4, Buff 1, NJ 2, Pitt 3, Phi 1, Pitt 1, Was 3, Pitt 3, Det 2, Pho 2, Bos 1, Chi 3, Ott 3, Col 3, Van 7, Buff 1
Basically you could trade Giroux and Boosh for Price and a 2nd or a maybe a 1st? Then sign Layton as backup. That would be the best Flyers goaltending duo in years I think. The downside is that Giroux is going to be a 70-80 point player and is all set for a break out year.
Giroux and JVR are (rightly) considered untouchables in this organization (along with at the very least, I think it’s fair to assume, Marshall, Bourdon and Eriksson). I’d also be hesitant to deal Lehtivuori, Bertilsson or perhaps Riopel at this point, but not totally against it.
As an aside, and I didn’t notice this until just now, but Hockey’s Future moved Eriksson up to the #2 Flyers prospect — behind JVR and ahead of Leino (who hasn’t played enough games to be considered a not-prospect), Marshall and Bourdon.
Who do you propose we trade for a goalie then? Maybe we could get Bernier for parts? Are just going to get a young talented free agent goalie? Also, I think if Montreal offered Price for any of Marshall, Bourdon, Eriksson, that deal would happen in a heartbeat. Those players certainly won’t be traded for another AHL player but if a proven NHL netminder you know they would…
I agree with you that JVR is considered untouchable. And Giroux is mostly considered untouchable. But Richards and Carter have the 1,2 center positions on lockdown and they are both young. And the one thing Holgrem has proven is that he is not afraid to make moves that he thinks are best for the team. And he is also willing to sacrifice the future to win now.
I would rather send Carter for Halak and Plechenak, but I have beaten that to death by now. I am also vasilationg over either Carter or Giroux. I am afraid this organization will never value nor tap his skills. So I would consider either one who brought the most in return. But I would rather Halak, Bernier, Schneider or Niemi. Price is already out of this youth group and has some bad miles on him.
Just Call Me "M"!
Yea he is just not what the management of this organization have any experience with. they refuse to give him the center position with at least Gagne who can accept his creative playmaking. He is lost so far on this team playing the likes of Asham and JVR or Powe or any of the other run of the mill worker bees.
Just Call Me "M"!
I wouldn’t trade Giroux because you don’t have good players to utilize him I would rather see him moved to wing or go out a sign better players to play on the 3rd line.
He really should be the 2nd line center and Richards should be the 3rd line center grabbing his minutes on special teams. If we could move Briere and have Carter as the #1, well that would be the best move but that is to unlikely for a number of reasons.
Just Call Me "M"!
That is interesting idea, Hitch tried Richie as a checker and he was good at that role but he has talent to be a top line player he just needs to be playing with good wingers as well. That is the problem the only guy who doesn’t need wingers to succeed is Carter because his shot is so strong he can just carry the puck in shoot and score. We don’t have enough wingers to maximize the talents of all our centers therefore Giroux should be moved to wing.
I also believe while very talented Richards is more like a Poulin, or Brindamour. Two way center breaking down the oppositions best lines like Jordan Staal. That premise is based on having a balanced team. He doesn’t need to be a point getter to be important but he is more than capable and when a guy like Richards scores while shutting down the opposition it crushes them really like what Jordan Staal does. As you can tell I am a Staal fan.
Just Call Me "M"!
I thought Plechanak was UFA at the end of this year or did he resign? I don’t think Montreal would go for Plechenak and Halak for Carter. Plechanak has more points then Carter…
Yeah right! Two months ago before the second crash of the empire here they would have sent the owners plane. Now Halak has proved he is the real deal. But as for Plechanek, he refuses to talk contract with the Habs so they are going to lose him for nothing. And we can not afford to bid open market, but maybe if he was in a trade and they worked a contract deal with him early with some of the Carter money that could work.
Just Call Me "M"!
Let’s see. Last time I checked, there are some talented players on the NHL roster that many of us would not mind moving for the right return. Danny Briere? Scott Hartnell? Braydon Coburn? Ah, but Briere and Hartnell have a no-movement clause and no-trade clause, respectively.
As a player, you don’t want to be in a place where you’re not wanted. If you have a NTC/NMC and get asked to accept a trade, one of two things is likely happening: your GM likes you, but needs you to consent so he can get an even more elite player or because he won’t be able to keep you for the next season (see: Kovalchuk, Ilya; Hossa, Marian), or because ultimately you’re not providing what the team expects and they need to include you in a deal to fix that or another weakness.
Scott Hartnell loves playing here. Danny Briere probably likes it, too. That’s because the fans support them, and Hartnell in particular seems to really appreciate that. But if Homer asks one of them to waive their no-trade/movement clause, and they refuse, believe me, it won’t take long for the fans to know. And if they hear that the Flyers almost had top goalie prospect Jonathan Bernier, or are still trying but are unable to complete a deal for him, because Scott Hartnell wouldn’t consent to waiving his no-trade clause, so instead Brian Boucher and [insert random journeyman netminder] will man the crease, you think those fans are going to feel the same way? Sure, we all like Hartnell not just as a player but as a person, but quite frankly I would prefer Jonathan Bernier be on my team over Scott Hartnell. You think there wouldn’t be 19,500 people booing Hartnell the next time they could? And you think he’d want to play here anymore?
Now, what Holmgren would actually do is a different story. None of us can predict that, fortunately or unfortunately.
by Ben Feldman on Mar 29, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you serious? Do you understand the consequences of blackmailing your own players?
Lets just cut to the end of this conversation: In a million years, that will never and should never happen.
even if it did who is going to take Briere and his hit or Hartnell and his it for a promising young goalie? After the lock out trades do not work that way. You trade youth for youth vets for vets because the money has to match.
You can also trade youth for veterans (like Caputo for Ponikarovsky).
But I agree you can’t get youth for veterans.
Sure you can… like Ponikarovsky for Caputi.
I agree that getting youth for Briere or Hartnell would be tough though.
Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. Got goaltending? Searching since 1987.
by Travis Hughes on Mar 30, 2010 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Wasn’t 30 year old Skoukla a part of the deal?…sounds like a way to clear some Pens. cap space as part of the price that the Leafs had to pay for Caputi
your example does not match for several reason
1.yes veteran defense man Skoula was part of that trade…http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=4960708
2.Ponikarovsky makes ~2.5 mil. Hartnell makes over 4.
3. Ponikarovsky is UFA and his hit only applied for a couple of months.
Maybe we could pull a fast one on Bob Gainey but he is no longer there GM.
if your addressing my commnent then perhaps you interpreted it incorrectly because it essentially agrees with your initial assertion. In order for the deal to go down the Leafs had to take on the Pens. sunk cost for Skouloa in addition to the more value older winger in order to get Caputi, the play they really wanted.
Skoula was thrown into the trade to make the deal work for cap seasons on Pittsburgh’s end. He’s earning $575,000 this season and will be an unrestricted free agent July 1.
In other words in a capped contact sport you don’t trade youth for veterans unless there is an emergency , or the other team takes on a dead weight role player/grinder contract to increase your cap space.
I suppose however sometimes taking on another team’s cost is done out of neccessity since the one team might not be able to absorb the the new salary of the player without unloading more contracts. Still, the bottom line is the only viable trade options I see is either Jeff Carter, Girioux or a bushel full of prospects. As to the prospects, I don’t know their names let alone how they rank among others in the league to be of any value to other teams. I keep up with the Phillies more than the Flyers and that’s just too many prospects to remember without the brain cramping esp with the scandanavian and russians names…forget it.. Maybe JVR and Carle or Coburn might entice teams. I just don’t the sport well enough to make that judgement.
It’d make for some solid entertainment, at least.
Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. Got goaltending? Searching since 1987.
by Travis Hughes on Mar 30, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Having the conversation?
After the pittsburgh douche this weekend, I haven’t recharged enough to conduct dumb arguments yet.
Hah, I’m kidding.
Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. Got goaltending? Searching since 1987.
by Travis Hughes on Mar 30, 2010 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if they still covet Briere, since the media, fanbase, and possibly even front office have a complete hate campaign out there against him. They may covet others on our team, but not necessarily others I’m willing to give up. You know how they have their stance that all French Canadian players belong to them….
by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 29, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but if he went there, they would change their tune in a second, and if he managed some reasonable production up there, all would be forgiven. I’m not sure that it wouldn’t be a good thing for him, because it can’t be fun to be the guy here who everyone talks about as “the guy we overpaid for who is keeping the team from making the moves it needs to win a Stanley Cup”
Nothing to do with any of this…but a Flyers reference nonetheless…
http://deadspin.com/5502826/philadelphias-mls-team-plays-dirty-like-a-philly-team-should
didnt know foot-faries could get physical haha (no-offense meant, i actually enjoy playing pick up soccer games)
by flyersfangiroux on Mar 29, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The other guys...
Where does this put all the goalies they currently have signed? Honestly, if Emery and Leighton didn’t get injured I think the Flyers would be much higher in the standings. Not to shit on Boosh (I love the guy), but his playing style isn’t fitting with the current defense. (He needs more support than Leights and Emery, but that’s an argument for another day.) The organization has young goalies in their system as well. Duschene, Backlund (27 is still young in goalie years), Riopel, and now Hutton. These are young guys, mostly untested. And I’m sure if the team gave them confidence they would perform their best. I know hockey is a business, but these are people who want to play for a team that believes in them
I can read the future, while lesser men read comic books.
Emery, Leighton, and Backlund are all UFAs at the end of the season.
Riopel will be in juniors again next year. Hutton hasn’t even graduated college yet, and he’s actually only on an AHL tryout contract, so he isn’t even signed for this year, let alone next year. Duchesne… is not very good.
Boucher is the only goalie in the organization with an NHL contract for 2010-11.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
What about the talks to sign these guys? I don’t know how well Emery is going to hold up (the hip condition is pretty bad and it’s a shame because he’s young and talented), but I think Leighton would be a good goaltending choice next season.
And have you seen Duchesne? He’s not bad when he tried. Problem is that the Phantoms aren’t what they used to be in terms of talent… =(
I can read the future, while lesser men read comic books.
Well, I don’t want them to sign Emery or Leighton, and even if Duchesne is resigned, there’s no way he’s an NHL goalie next year.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 29, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Geoff are you sure Riopel has another year of Juniors left this is his fifth season I believe and is now 20 years of age, born of Feb. 20 1989. I think 19 is the last year for Junior eligibility.
Not positive. I was just going on the assumption. Can’t find the rules anywhere, but Ben Feldman and Travis corrected me on the Fly By thread as well, so I think you’re right.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 30, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Price
If they bring in Price that’ll give Richards, Carter, et. al someone else to go out boozing with. I’m sure they miss Lupul and need a third to fill in on those excursions down to Temple’s campus.
I’d love this as a story on here. What has the injury count been for our goalies compared to goalies in the rest of the league over the past decade? If all goalies get hurt as much as ours, then OK I get it, they contort themselves constantly. But if not, there really has to be questions about the Flyers trainers. Nittymaki, Biron, all the names from this year. What is going on?
And not just goalies. I don’t know what the comparison is to the rest of the league, but it seems like we’ve seen many a groin and hip turn into glass and shatter, only to be hastily glued back together and have the player return way too soon so they can break it apart again. But we hear a lot that Jimmy McCrossin is one of the most respected trainers around the league, so…
Maybe it’s the doctors they have perform things? I’m not sure. But I with Gagne’s hernia surgery earlier this year that when they have the same surgery in the same spot, I always wonder if it was done right the first time
by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 29, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not the doctors, for two reasons
1) I believe they still use the Rothman Group, don’t they? Those guys are fucking awesome ortho surgeons. (Disclosure, one summer of law school I worked with the firm that defends their malpractice cases.) They’ve done a lot of revolutionary stuff and are just really good docs.
2) That said, the Flyers have surgery performed by lots of other doctors. I know Dr. Byrd in Nashville, TN performed multiple surgeries on Randy Jones and Gagne just last season.
It’s not all Rothman…. I remember Gagne’s hernia surgery this year was at Hahnemann, and their official partnership is with Virtua now, isn’t it?
by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 29, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t really pay attention. Just make sure you aren’t confusing sponsorships with treating physicians.
I understand that, but I know some things have been done there, so I’m not sure if they really even have one official place that’s their go-to anymore.
by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 29, 2010 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
wait, you’re a lawyer? Ok, that explains a lot.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 30, 2010 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
or there is an underlying weakness that went unaddressed earlier in his career…at this point it is hard to override all the compensatory neuromuscular adjustments the body has made. Usually requires the athlete being shut down for six months. This is acts like a system reset for the central nervous system. Now the neuromuscular memory specific to the sport will not undermine corrective measures made to solve the aforementioned weakness.
I know what I said is speculation, it’s just a question I always seem to ask myself.
by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 29, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
and it is a valid one…those in the case of high dollar athlete I’d say it is less likely. Unfortunately this stuff is difficult to figure out …lots of variables in hockey esp the contact aspects and ice related falls.can make it difficult to determine if it’s a chronic overuse injury or one of accident (contact or fall), or both.
In hindsight, Gags probably should have voluntarily not participated in skates at Team Canada orientation, but it’s hard to fault a guy who cites winning a gold medal as a favorite memory for not wanting to hurt his chances by doing so. I don’t think he thought it would happen, and it could have happened in camp here too if it didn’t happen there, but his body wasn’t ready for that tryout whether he even knew it or not.
by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 29, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
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