So That Vokoun Is Pretty Good: Flyers Lose 7-4
by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 3, 2010 10:57 PM EST
in 09-10 Game Recaps
56 comments
Well today was not a good day. After sitting at a computer all day waiting for something (Tomas Vokoun, anyone?) to be announced, nothing happened. Then the Flyers stepped on the ice and got demolished.
There really isn't too much to say. Michael Leighton, quite simply, did not have a good game. Brian Boucher came on in relief and promptly gave up two goals, and - although he recovered - didn't look good either. So, when John Boruk quotes Paul Holmgren as saying "I never made one call on a goalie" in a mid-game tweet, you can forgive me for asking "are you PROUD of that?"
But enough of that. The Flyers had won five in a row, just won a game 7-2, and played the second game of a back-to-back tonight. Maybe Boucher should have started tonight's game, but it doesn't really matter.
The good news from tonight? Ville Leino and Ryan Parent both scored their first ever goals in the Orange and Black, Parent scoring his first ever NHL goal. Congratulations to those two.
What? You wanted more good news? How about more bad news: Jeff Carter and Danny Briere both scored goals, but they were on the PP. As a result, the pair going minus-3 on the night was especially depressing. Only four players outside of the new fourth-line (Leino-Betts-Laperriere) avoided a minus tonight - Pronger, JVR, Asham, and Parent - and the Panthers had 7 power plays. Seven! You're not going to win when that happens.
With that, jump for Questions with Answers and Comment of the Night.
Questions to Answer:
- With the assurances that nobody will be traded (ignoring waiver trades), do the Flyers come out like they did last night? Not at all.
- There were rumors of a potential deal involving Jeff Carter for Tomas Vokoun: In a ridiculously small one game sample, does Carter prove more valuable? More valuable? No. Not at all. But Carter did score on him, so there's that.
- The Panthers defense is... significantly weaker than it was on Sunday. Can the Flyers take advantage? No. Four goals usually warrants a "yes", but their defensemen did enough to win. And scored two goals (one empty-net)
- Nobody got traded or fired today, so can the team best their efforts from last year's game against Calgary (after Upshall was traded) and this year's game against Washington (after Stevens was fired)? Um... I must say the team as a whole did best their efforts from the Calgary and Washington games. But Washington was largely the result of a 9 minute power play, and the team quitting after that. Here, the team didn't play poorly (they didn't play well either), but were let down by poor goaltending.
Comment of the Night:
Nothing worse than looking forward to a game all day, and this is what you get….
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Im still glad we didn’t trade Carter for Vokoun. I like him as a goalie, but he is an up-and-down player, like, he lost his starting job last year. Carter is a 35-45 goal scorer for years to come, and while I would like cap space, I wouldnt want to to send away our best sniper for a goalie we could all hate by this time next season.
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"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."
Agreed. Carter for Vokoun strikes me as one of those trades where you give up far more than you should (Carter) because you can’t trade what you need to (Gagne, Briere, Hartnell).
I still don’t see this love for Carter. He’s pretty much a one trick pony…. he can shoot. He can’t hit…or won’t… and seems to get “the circles” in his own zone. (meaning he twirls in circles trying to catch up)
The Flyers should have sold while his stock was high. We won’t have his services after next year. Now, we’ll be the ones selling, and selling low, a center in a “center-rich” league, at the deadline next year….
But, you’re entitled to your opinion. I happen to think a goaltender is more important and more difficult to find, than a 50 point center in these days of the NHL.
Carter is more of a 80 pt center with 40 of the those points being goals. Not many 40 goal scorers in the league.
I agree there are not many 40 goal scorers in the NHL, maybe there will be 8 when the season ends but I don’t see Carter as an 80 point center.
Yes he had 84 points last year but the year before that he had 53 and he certainly won’t get 80 points this year. I think Carter is at best a 70 point guy.
I think it is safe to say everybody on the team is having a statistically disappointing year. I mean everyone including Richards, Gagne, Briere, Hartnell, Giroux. Pronger is the only one that is one pace to put up some great numbers. So what if he doesn’t get 80 points this year? He is still your best goal scorer and points leader and before the Florida game he was a +10, the highest of any forward on the team.
“Only four players avoided a minus tonight (Pronger, JVR, Asham, and Parent)”
Ville Leino, Ian Laperriere, Blair Betts and their collective +6 take issue with that statement.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Mar 3, 2010 11:28 PM EST reply actions
Oooh, completely an oversight. Fixed.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 4, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
1 game.
Before this we were 18-7-1 in our last 26. So now were 18-8-1 in our last 27. I blame it on back-to-back at this point more than anything. I say wait a few games before panic mode.
And too bad we have what, three more sets of them this season?
We didn’t do so badly when we played back-to-back against Montreal.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
What’s the use of panicking? We can’t make any trades or control what the team does. We can just root and hope for the best.
If they miss the playoffs, I’ll only be really pissed if Holmgren doesn’t get fired. But I think there’s too much pride and talent in the room for that to happen.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
What would people panic about?
Does anyone honestly think this team is anything but a one and done? Because I sure don’t. Last night and the night before did not change my view at all. They are inconsistent at best and that doesn’t get it done in the playoffs.
No I certainly don’t expect them to win every game from here on out, but just like the Flyers were 7-3 in their last 10, they also went through stretches where their record was very much below 500…that is what you call inconsistent.
I would love for someone to show me if the Caps, or Hawks or Sharks, or even the Devils have lost more than 3 games in a row all season? I bet you they all have, maybe once. That is what you call consistent and that is why they have a legit chance to win a cup and the Flyers don’t.
I don’t expect the Flyers to win every game but I expect them to beat the teams they should, and the Panthers, losers of 7 straight are a team they should beat. Easily.
Caps lost 4 in a row from October 6 to October 12, and have lost 3 in a row 4 times.
Biggest Hawks losing streak is 3 from January 30 to February 5.
Sharks lost 5 in a row from December 3 to December 12 (STL, CAL, LAK, DAL, PHX). Other than that, they haven’t lost more than 2 in a row.
The Devils have lost 3 in a row three times, but not 4 in a row.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Vokoun wasn’t that great. 4 goals against hardly made me yearn.
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Four goals on 42 shots against is not bad. It’s not stellar, but he did what most goalies are expected to do – stop 9 out of every 10 shots.
It’s better than giving up 4 goals on less than 20 shots.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Ben, you are too fixated on the number of goals, rather than the body of work. Yeah, 4 goals is a lot, for a game. But, the Flyers also had 42 shots on goal. (Same as the Panthers BTW) As well, it’s already been explained that he stopped better than 90% of the shots faced, which is what is expected for your starter.
The four goals Vokoun gave up…. were “A” quality scoring attempts and/or deflections that a goaltender has a 50/50 chance to make.
There were at least another baker’s dozen of “A” quality scoring attempts by Philly that were vacuumed up by Vokoun for a faceoff, no rebound, no juggle. Just a “Thanks for the puck” and a wave of the glove to faceoff circle left or right.
His positioning was superb. His movement fluid, and he aggressively challenged and cut off angles.
Leighton, as per usual, looked surprised just about every time he made a save. He couldn’t control his rebounds, as usual…. and his glove was slower than the service at Denny’s after 2 AM. If a team shoots against him and hits the net…. he’s in deep shit. The defense in front of him has been pretty good at blocking shots or limiting the screens. We just saw what’s going to happen against a determined and good opponent.
Boucher… well, flopping around like a flounder at low tide. I’ve seen Men’s League goalies with better positioning and reactions.
Am I the only one who thought he was going to put that puck in off the end boards by himself?
Vokoun for Carter should have been a simple decision. A center like Carter, who will be dealt next year ANYWAY (We won’t be able to afford him) isn’t worth a goalie that is tied for the league lead in shutouts, #2 in save %, 12th in the league in GAA (while facing the MOST SHOTS AGAINST)
While I’m ranting… damn that albatross, Mike Rathje. Damn him right to……grrrr
Once again Dinky, Carter is under contract next year and he contract expires the same year as Gagne so he can easily be afforded. He already counts for 5 million he his not going to get more than 8 million (probably not even close) and that would be reduced by length of contract. Also is RFA so we have the right to match and draft pick compensation.
Keep in mind, folks...
A couple of younglings really stepped it up for FLA tonight. Jason Garrison and Shawn Matthias played lights-out – simply the best NHL games of their short careers. Even we were surprised at what they had in them.
That happens against the Flyers. Just ask Jeff Deslauriers and Anton Khudobin.
Are you saying that the Panthers are all Jedis?
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Only on Wednesdays, for some bizarre reason.
by Donny Rivette on Mar 3, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure why FLA owns us this year. This was disturbing. Even though we waxed the bolts last night, way, way too many quality scoring chances given up in both games. Hope it’s rust from the break for everyone but richards and pronger.
Wow, just watched the highlights. Leighton was TERRIBLE! It looked like he was really struggling to see the puck all night. Even on saves that he made, he looked slow and his reactions were terribly delayed. I am hoping it is just a one game occurrence though. Poor, Boush. He didn’t seem to fare much better.
Boosh at least got better as the game went on, so it’s easier to believe his troubles were rust (we’ll know better if he starts against Buffalo or at least plays again soon, it really has been an awfully long time since he saw game action). I think both goals he gave up were on the first 3 shots he faced, and then he didn’t give up anymore on the remaining 13. I’m not trying to say he was perfect or anything, but he did start to get it together.
by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 4, 2010 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
Just no heart again. Maybe everyone was tired of being worried about being traded. You think Leighton would have came out pumped up after the organization basically said you are our number one we believe in you. Many goals later Boucher goes in and has a chance to just slow down the game and make some saves and gives up a bad goal, but the defense is not not at fault. Where is the defense clearing the front of the net our we really going back to them not playing physical.
Comcasts hit of the game a joke of pronger basically hugging a guy to the boards. And I can’t believe with have anybody with a no trade clause. I thought you had to be a star to have one of these. Hartnell is not a star he is a good player but way overpayed and just makes bad decisions. His role should be to keep the puck in the zone and hustle into the corners leave the shooting to Carter and Briere. I am not panicked, I believe in the team just sad to see some of the same things still plagueing us.
Well it looks like we are in for a rough ride boys and girls. At this point in the season after the trade deadline I am not even confident we can make the playoffs.
Homers piss poor cap and draft management is basically going to screw this team for the next two seasons.
by LegionofDoom on Mar 4, 2010 7:07 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Thank God
They don’t play the Panthers anymore. They’ve had their asses handed to them each time.(Minus the Booth hit game)
This game was pretty tough to watch. What i noticed was that Leighton kept the Flyers in it longer than they should have been. No defense at all in this game. Seems like every two minutes the Panthers had a breakaway. Poor game all around. And just like old time Too Many Penalties!
Leighton kept them in the game? Are you serious? He let 2 soft goals go right between his legs and was compltely out of poition on the 2nd goal. I’ll let him slide on the first goal, but the other 3 were 100% on Leighton. The defense wasnt great but no way the last 3 goals against Leighton should ever go in.
by edbro on Mar 4, 2010 8:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
For having a reputation of being “bullies,” I’m amazed at how poorly the Flyers responded when the Panthers came out swinging in the first.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Mar 4, 2010 9:00 AM EST reply actions
I’m completely over calling this a coincidence. When Betts and Powe both play, the Flyers win. When one or both are out, they lose. Who cares what the reason is – if its nothing more than good luck, so be it, because they need the points right now! Here’s hoping that his ‘bruised’ foot isn’t more severely injured than they’re letting on. On a related positive though, Leino looked pretty good – aside from the fact that he still ‘looks’ like a Red Wing; you know, that gaunt, bearded, slightly smug look.
And to all the doomsday posts – one game doesn’t ruin a season. Leighton may not be the second coming of Patrick Roy, but he’s done pretty darn well for the team thus far. I’m willing to allow one stinker as he gets his feet wet for the playoff run …
some of the players look like they need to shake the rust off from the break. leighton, krajicek, and betts are two examples; they look a step off the pace when compared to pre-break levels.
i am blowing this off as a one game anomaly. sometimes, shit just doesn’t go right.
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"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Two weeks off then back to back with travel and that game looked like it, I would have imagined a split in those two should have been expected problem was that we could have won that game but Leighton didn’t have it. Florida has really gotten up to play us after the Booth hit. Every goalie has bad games and Leighton didn’t even get the loss is this one. How he responds after a bad game is going to be a true test. Once again it looked like we tried to do too much especially Hartnell forcing passes and taking penalties. I am so glad the Olympics is over so now we can get back to all the fun ticky tack hooking penalties Bettman loves so much, and alternating power plays who needs 5 on 5 really.
Why do you assume a split in the back to back was expected?
The Panthers blow. Flat out, they blow. They had lost 7 in a row, and have now scored more than 2 goals in 2 of the last 16 games, ironically, both against the Flyers. So yes, I will agree that they have certainly gotten up to play the Flyers but the Flyers certainly make it easier for the Panthers by playing the way they did last night.
I was listening to the game last night on the radio, first time I had done that all year and it amazed me to hear C.T mention how the Flyers were playing atypically and they were better than what we saw last night.
No they weren’t and no they aren’t. The Flyers will maybe give you one 60 minute effort every 4-5 games, which means games like last night are very typical. As was the game against the Lightning. The only difference was the result. The Flyers were able to hang around with the Lightning and then exploded. Last night the Panthers had them by the balls early and that was that. The Flyers maybe played 20 minutes of solid hockey, maybe, and it certainly wasn’t 20 minutes in a row.
So… what you’re saying is that it’s the exact same thing we’ve seen all season? Forcing passes, poor, lackluster play, and an inconsistent effort.
They should and could have won both games. They did not. Leighton was BAD. But the team defense was bad too. And they should have been able to press that defense harder, especially after they traded away 2 of their top D men. I dislike Bettman as much, if not more than anybody, but players playing poorly is not his fault.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Stop.
Must we over-react to one game?
Yes, last night was lousy. And, the score notwithstanding, Tuesday was pretty lousy too. But the fact of the matter is that the players (except for our Olympians) still need to get back in sync.
They haven’t played together in two weeks, and then they played back-to-back nights. They weren’t skating together either of the last two nights – at least not until the third period last night. It’s not like they were playing that way when they won 4 in a row before the Olympic break. You don’t sweep two home-and-home series playing like that. They were playing the system well and skating together. Once the rust comes off then they will play that way again.
I usually exercise 6 days a week. Sometimes, for whatever reason (illness / crazy work schedule / travel / etc.) I will miss a few days. When I get back to the gym, it takes me a minute to stretch and warm up, but once I get going I feel invincible. (See: Tuesday night’s game against Tampa.) The next day I still get through my workout, but I undoubtedly feel more tired and “off” than the day before. (See: Last night against Florida.) After that I’m fine.
The Flyers had a long layoff, had energy once they got going in Tampa, and then came out flat last night. It’s physiological, folks. They’ll get over it. I’m not drinking the orange and black Kool-Aid and pretending that everything is wonderful, but I’m not going to jump off the Ben Franklin Bridge because our 5-game win streak came to an end.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Who’s reacting to one game?
The way they played last night is just a continuation of how they played in Tampa, and how they played about 55 of the other 60 games this season.
Last night was not an aberration, it was the norm.
Inconsistent. Its been bandied around a lot this year but it describes this team perfectly.
Its not over-reacting to just this one game, but we’ve all seen the same thing happen many times this season. They are frustrating because they should not be losing to teams like the Panthers, Wild and Oilers but do.
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New Jersey
|
82 | 48 | 27 | 7 | 103 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
82 | 47 | 28 | 7 | 101 |
|
Philadelphia
|
82 | 41 | 35 | 6 | 88 |
|
New York Rangers
|
82 | 38 | 33 | 11 | 87 |
|
New York Islanders
|
82 | 34 | 37 | 11 | 79 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
Flyers Schedule
Next 5 Games
|
@
Pittsburgh
|
Thu 10/07 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
St. Louis
|
Sat 10/09 | 8:00 PM EDT |
|
Colorado
|
Mon 10/11 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
Tampa Bay
|
Thu 10/14 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
Pittsburgh
|
Sat 10/16 | 7:00 PM EDT |
Last 5 Games
|
Chicago
|
Wed 06/09 | OT - L 3 - 4 |
|
@
Chicago
|
Sun 06/06 | L 4 - 7 |
|
Chicago
|
Fri 06/04 | W 5 - 3 |
|
Chicago
|
Wed 06/02 | OT - W 4 - 3 |
|
@
Chicago
|
Mon 05/31 | L 1 - 2 |
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