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The Maturation of Dan Carcillo

When the Flyers traded for Dan Carcillo a year ago, the book on him was that he was an out of control rebel, who often times crossed the line with regards to vicious hits, irresponsible play and just flat out dirty hockey. When he arrived in Philadelphia, Carcillo didn't do much to change those opinions.

He took dumb penalties. He played over the edge, seemingly without regard for the fact that he took his team off the cliff with him every time he did so. His reputation as a passionate yet wild, ineffective trouble maker grew as the season went on, ultimately culminating with the mother of all gaffes: dropping the gloves with Max Talbot in what would turn out to be final game of the Flyers 2008/09 season.

No, his decision to drop the gloves with Talbot wasn't the deciding factor in that Game 6, but it certainly didn't help matters either. Until that point, Carcillo never helped matters (except for maybe that one time in Game 4 where he scored a late goal and then proceeded to pump up the Wachovia Center crowd to record levels).

These characteristics followed him into the 2009/10 season as well, notoriously punctuated by his cheap shot punch to the face of Washington's Matt Bradley back in December. Carcillo was suspended four games for that incident, but since then he's turned his season and his reputation among Flyers fans around.

Star-divide

Of course, he had already shown glimpses of becoming a smarter hockey player before then, most notably by simply drawing more penalties than he was taking. But the Bradley incident proved that he still had an uncontrollable side that could be a severe detriment to his team and even to the sport.

That's all but gone now, however. Why might that be?

It certainly could have been the suspension, a four game sit down that would have forced Carcillo to contemplate the effects of his actions on his team. Given the fact that it wasn't Carcillo's first suspension, however, and the fact that suspensions rarely turn players into repentant saints make this scenario seem unlikely.

This should lead us to believe that it was due in part to Peter Laviolette's influence, as the Washington game was the first of his Flyers tenure. It's noted on the record several times from his days in Carolina that Laviolette has a low, low tolerance for the nonsense Carcillo displayed that night. Mike Richards forced Carcillo, who wasn't on the docket to speak to the media following that game, to trudge out into the cameras and speak about his actions.

It could have been a decree from Laviolette or Richards could have done that on his own, but either way, it's interesting that it was from that point on that Carcillo began to rein in his behavior.

Since, smart play has become a not-so-shocking staple of his game. It slowly but surely has become expected for Carcillo to draw penalties more often than he takes them, and the fights he engages in these days are often calculated, strategic endeavors instead of reckless, adrenaline-driven fits of rage.

He's even added a bit of the scoring touch, and his fine play has been appreciated by his coach in more than just words. Carcillo is a now serving on Laviolette's top line, playing with Selke-worthy captain Mike Richards and the always smooth-as-ice Simon Gagne. He compliments those two with a perfect mix of aggression and hockey sense, giving the two point producers room to work while sometimes even stepping onto the score sheet himself.

Carcillo's intelligent play came to a head on Sunday night, as he stood in and accepted abuse from Toronto's Colton Orr without retaliation. It was the perfect reaction to Orr's advances in that situation. Orr had been at Carcillo's back for about five seconds, shoving him several times as the Flyer skated toward his bench. An initial cross-check penalty had already been called on Orr and Carcillo certainly noticed.

As he reached the boards, he turned to face Orr, who then engaged him with a few shoves to the upper body. As the linesman stepped in to peel Orr off of number 13, a frustrated Orr took one final swing at Carcillo's head. Another two minute penalty for roughing was rightfully handed out to the goon who, as Carcillo pointed out post game, doesn't really have much else on which to fall back.

Here's Carcillo, speaking about Orr and the Leafs postgame:

That guy, I‘m just never going to fight him. I mean, he plays three minutes a night. He doesn’t really do anything unless somebody fights him. I kind of knew he was going to run me there and then I sucked him into a few, and luckily we scored a little bit later.

They do it every game, they're doing it every game we play them. Every whistle they're in there. I mean, that's all they've got right now. What do they have, you know? That's all they're going to do. They’re just going to try and get up under your skin and make us take penalties. And we knew that. That’s just the type of team they are right now, and we’re just not buying into it. We’ve got bigger things to worry about.

Those are the words that follow the actions of a smart hockey player. Carcillo didn't hurt his team at a time where taking a penalty would've negated a pending power play. Instead, he stood there calmly, intelligently taking the abuse from Orr, whose stupidity wound up costing the Leafs another penalty. Just the gravy on top.

Of course, in Toronto, they're not exactly viewing this under the same light.

Here's SBN's Leafs blog, Pension Plan Puppets:

The first period was a gong show in large part because of Colton Orr. After two regular season games and a pre-season game I think it should be very clear that Daniel Carcillo is never going to engage in fisticuffs. Flyers fans can pretend that he was just being smart but Carcillo then tried to fight Jeff Finger later in the game because he knew Orr was stapled to the bench.

First off, Carcillo made it quite clear why he's not fighting Orr: it's pointless. At the same time, to state that it's 'very clear' that Carcillo is 'never going to engage in fisticuffs' with the Leafs is pretty hilarious, considering he's done it three times since this preseason.

Meanwhile, we can just ignore the logic that says fighting a guy in a situation that would negate a power play and challenging a guy right after the opposing team has tied the game to give your team a boost is the same thing. Fighting Orr would have been unbelievably stupid, but fighting Finger to spark your team after the Leafs tie the game?

Calculated, strategic.

The rest of the league likely won't recognize the strides Carcillo has taken in his game. To them, he'll continue to be the worthless piece of... oh, what's the word?, that's right... chicken**** that he's been known to be his entire career. That's fine by us. 

To the Flyers fans who know him best, Carcillo is rapidly becoming one of those guys who you'd hate to play against but absolutely love to play with, which might be the biggest compliment you can give a hockey player. He'll continue to become the fan favorite Paul Holmgren promised he'd become in this town when he traded for him a year ago.

Keep on hating Dan Carcillo, hockey world. He loves it.

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Both sides are right.

The NHL is now a league where being “smart” and being “chickenshit” aren’t mutually exclusive. Trying to get somebody to punch you in the face, and then standing there with a smirk, has become a legitimate strategy. And Carcillo’s becoming one of the best in the league at it.

If Flyers fans really think this is all a good thing, then go ahead and cheer him on.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Mar 8, 2010 10:13 AM EST reply actions  

Orr provoked him and he didn’t do anything about it. It’s not ‘trying to get someone to punch you in the face’ because he never did anything to force Orr to go after him.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Mar 8, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe not immediately before the play, but let’s look at this history this year. Carcillo fought Lee Stempniak in the pre-season, a guy who never fights anyone. He also fought Schenn, who does fight but is hardly a heavyweight, and even tried to fight Niklas Hagman of all people. He’s trashtalked the Leafs bench. He was even fined for giving them the throat slash. For him to turn around and act like it’s the Leafs who are trying to “get up under your skin” is kind of embarassing.

None of which excuses Orr, by the way, who needs to be smart enough to understand what kind of player Carcillo is. You don’t have to like it, but you can’t play right into his hands. I like Orr but he was a cementhead last night.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Mar 8, 2010 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

This is all very true.

One of the points I’m trying to make — well, the only point — is that he’s grown a LOT since the preseason.

Still, even then, I think there’s something to be said for the fact that in each of the fights with Leafs this season he was pestered first. It’s not like he’s out there running a guy like Schenn and then fighting him. Schenn clearly challenges him, there.

He talks about the trash talking thing and how the Leafs try it but the Flyers don’t give in. The Flyers, led by Carcillo, clearly give the trash talk right back but the difference is that it obviously gets under the skin while the Flyers clearly don’t care too much.

That’s smart. It’s strategy. Saying that Carcillo is chicken**** for doing so is implying that he’s afraid of Orr. That’s not correct.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Mar 8, 2010 11:01 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

That’s smart. It’s strategy.

Probably true on both points. I just wish the NHL hadn’t evolved into this.

Saying that Carcillo is chicken**** for doing so is implying that he’s afraid of Orr. That’s not correct.

If Carcillo’s as smart as you think he is, he should be afraid of him. He lost to Jamal Mayers, I don’t think a fight with Orr would go well for him.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Mar 8, 2010 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

The laundry list of “Things That I wish the NHL hadn’t Evolved Into” is so long, we could probably start our own blog and have a topic to write about everyday for a month, unfortunately.

I think the point here is not so much about the game last night as it is more about how Carcillo has gone from being a bonehead to being almost Sean Avery Jr.

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 8, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m with you. Just that it’s a sad day in the NHL when being “almost Sean Avery Jr” is seen as a worthy aspiration.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Mar 8, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

February 1, 1993 was a sad day in the NHL. This is just reprecussions from then.

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 8, 2010 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah… Dave Andreychuk’s last day as a Buffalo Sabre was pretty sombre.

(Oh, that other thing. Yeah, that hasn’t worked out too well either.)

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Mar 8, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

BURN!

Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.

by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think this stuff is anything new. I’ll defer to mikefive below on that one.

But you’re right, he probably wouldn’t beat Orr. He’s not really a strong fighter, he’s not really a big guy. But he’s clearly effective, proven by the fact we’re having this discussion right now.

Nobody around here really cares that Hartnell was embarrassed by Phaneuf last night. The goal there is to get the Leafs best(?) defenseman off the ice for five minutes, and that’s a great exchange.

It’s the same logic. Carcillo fighting Orr does nothing. There’s no point. If you want to call him chicken**** for not fighting a guy that can’t actually play the game, that’s fine too.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Mar 8, 2010 11:29 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

You thought Hartnell was embarrassed by Phanuef? Maybe we saw a different fight, but I remember two guys squaring off, locking up, throwing maybe a punch and then falling down. It could barely be classified as a fight from what i saw.

by JasonB on Mar 8, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Hartnell was flat out embarrassed last night. Phanuef beat him rather handily. I don’t think Hartnell even got a punch in.

Secondly, Schenn is their best defensemen. Not Phanuef.

by EREX21 on Mar 8, 2010 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Did Phanuef get a punch in? Maybe one? Like I said, what I saw could barely be classified as a fight.

by JasonB on Mar 8, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

hartnell got the first punch in. didn’t do anything after that.

still scoring it 10-9 phaneuf, tho’

Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance

by psudrozz on Mar 8, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe embarrassing isn’t the right word, but it’s not as if Phaneuf lost the fight. Hartnell looked kind of goofy in the whole process, without a doubt in my eyes.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Mar 8, 2010 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Hartnell looks goofy every fight, and they all look like the one last night, lots of whiffs and they all fall down.

"NO HONOR"

"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."

by JpH89 on Mar 8, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I fail to see how anyone could be considered to have “lost” that “fight.” Maybe I’m remembering it wrong, but I saw two guys wrestle for a second and then fall down.

by JasonB on Mar 8, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Any fight

where one combatant has the chance to fix his hair before a punch is thrown should be stopped right away.

by boknows71 on Mar 8, 2010 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Evolved from what? This type of play has existed for quite a long time. Claude Lemieux, anyone? Pat Verbeek? Tocchet and Clarke did it on our side. Goading a dumb penalty out of the other team’s muscle is an art form, and one of the least regrettable ones in hockey. Turtleling, diving, and slewfooting, on the other hand…

By the way, while Carcillo’s game has gained some discipline, but let’s not claim “It’s all gone now.” He got the better of a very stupid player last night. To think the same can’t happen to Carcillo at the hands of Kennedy or Bradley is naive.

by Snevik on Mar 8, 2010 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s been several months since he’s made a glaringly stupid play. It’s not ‘all gone" — I believe I said ’all but gone’, but those are semantics — but he’s vastly improved and he’s done the same thing in several different cases against several different players in the last few months.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Mar 8, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I retract the ‘naive’ comment. I misread the phrasing.

And clearly, there’s a difference between the Bradley KO and, say, his interference penalty the other night. I’m just hoping he continues to refine his game and avoid the Hartnell-level-stupid penalties, as well as the McSorley-level ones.

by Snevik on Mar 8, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Certainly. Still a work in progress, of course. The difference now is that it’s ‘in progress.’ It’s great to see.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Mar 8, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s tough for anyone who doesn’t watch the Flyers every game to believe how quickly he has shown improvement. I won’t lie, some of us are in disbelief too. But the trajectory of his transformation is accelerating in an exponential way; his rate of improvement seems to be getting faster and faster. No one would really see that without watching all the time, so we know that no one outside here will understand. I don’t think he’s a perfect player or anything, but he is radically different from how he was 6 months ago, 3 months ago, or even 6 weeks ago.

by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 8, 2010 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

…he is radically different from how he was 6 months ago, 3 months ago, or even 6 weeks ago.

I guess that’s why I’m hesitant to heap too much praise on the guy. Just a few weeks ago, this was the guy who was making throat-slashes at the Leafs bench, and doing his pathetic “look at me” routine at the Winter Classic.

Maybe he’s figured it out. But I want to see him do it for a little while longer before deciding he’s a changed man, and not just another embarassing “agitator” who happens to have managed to stay out of trouble for a few weeks.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Mar 8, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

wait, I can get on board with you not wanting to heap praises on the guy just because he takes the “high” road against Orr (which probably saved him from an ass kicking)

However, you cross the line when you trash his act at the Winter Classic. That fight at the winter classic was solid gold and everything that is still “right” about hockey (although THAT list gets smaller everyday).

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 8, 2010 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Going off the ice doing the rock star hands (and then doing a 360 in the penalty box to make sure everyone saw him) isn’t something I want to think about as being right with hockey.

(And yes, that applies to Orr against the Sens on Saturday too. Win the fight, go sit down.)

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Mar 8, 2010 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Nono, the thing that was so great about the fight at the Classic was that the Classic is the “Evil Dictator’s” showcase game. It’s been the one thing that hasn’t been tarnished by “old school hockey”.

Carcillo basically gooned up the commish’s annual “look how great i made the NHL” game. Then he made devil horns to salute him. Plus he allegedly was drunk the nice before and bragged about doing it. That in alone is EPIC.

I’m disappointed that the commish had the ref’s fix the game so Boston won, but hey, at least we had Carcillo rockstar, although i do see your point, I just spin it differently in my head.

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 8, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t have a problem with that, and wouldn’t even if it was a guy from another team (OK, I’d yell at the TV when it happened, but I’d be fine with it after the game). Guys like Chico are a dime a dozen, relatively speaking. He’s not the next Gretzky, or the next Gagne. He’s a mucker who does a little scoring, a little fighting, and a little agitating. Coming up with a schtick makes him more memorable and gets the fans more into it, which helps both with the immediate game and with his popularity, which may help him in future contracts. Maybe it’s not something that’s “right,” but if it’s wrong, than I don’t wanna be right.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Mar 8, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t have a problem with his stuff at the Classic or the throat slash thing because in no way does that stuff hurt the team or the game.

It’s entertainment.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Mar 8, 2010 11:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Stop right there I haven’t read any further than this comment yet so if this is beating a dead horse, so be it. CARCILLO IS NOT A HEAVYWEIGHT! He is a medium sized pest that isn’t normally afraid to drop the gloves, but to put him in the heavyweight category is ridiculous.

by M from Pdaddy on Mar 8, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, that’s a good point. Luke Schenn (who’s “no heavyweight”) is 10 pounds heavier than Carcillo.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Mar 8, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Keith Jones used to be really good at that, too. There is nothing new with this strategy at all. Players always try to draw penalties, whether by dropping their sticks, falling down, or getting punched in the face. Carcillo used to be the one going to the box for punching the opposition; he has changed his tune and the Flyers are reaping the benefits.

Trust me – if he were on the Leafs you would LOVE him.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Mar 8, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I think at this point, the Leaves would love ANYONE with an ounce of talent on their team.

Oh, This is bound to be good
You can't, but you thought that You could

by jello44 on Mar 8, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

the toronto game showed a dan carcillo that made smart plays, was in the flow and didnt take untimely penalties. this is who i want to see – yes sir… keep the guy on the first line if it stays this way…

by fitzy first on Mar 8, 2010 10:16 AM EST reply actions  

Not only has he improved on-ice but he’s become a go-to guy for a great soundbite after a game like this. In addition to what is quoted above he also said something to the effect of “Yeah, there are a lot of minor leaguers on this [Toronto] team.” You could hear a couple reporters chuckle.

-KreiderDesigns
"Good night. Good hockey."

by KreiderDesigns on Mar 8, 2010 10:36 AM EST reply actions  

I was saying all through the first few months of the season that Carcillo’s immaturity was my issue with him, and so I am pleasantly surprised with his newfound ability to keep himself in check. It’s not like I never want him to fight or take penalties, because he should when it’s necessary, but he didn’t have the ability to make that distinction in the past. Props to him for getting better at it, and to whoever has had a hand in helping him with it.

This part I’m basing this entirely on my first impression from last night, because I can’t find a replay of the shoving match after Carcillo’s non goal (if anybody else saw it or recorded it, please tell me if you saw the same thing I did). If I saw what I think I did, it would add another layer to Carcillo learning some self control. When they were all grouped up in a scrum at the time, Carcillo appeared to be unconcerned with the people who were trying to mess with him, and seemed to focus all of his attention on trying to deal with the guy who was pushing Gagne; it looked like he was trying to pull Gags back and get in there to protect his teammate. If that’s really what happened, it would say to me that he’s truly learning. If I’m seeing things, then well, just ignore this entire paragraph.

by DragonGirl0583 on Mar 8, 2010 10:43 AM EST reply actions  

Phenauf is such an awful hockey player. Terrible defenseman, and makes way too many goon plays. Nobody knew that the play was offsides, and if he did know, why was he still trying to play after the whistle. All that play showed to me was a guy picking a fight(with Gagne of all people) after a goal. There is no lace for that in hockey, and how he didnt get more then a minor is insulting in itself. I won’t touch Orr, I’m fairly sure we all know him from his NYR days, but its good to see Toronto keeping its stand on being an awful team full of talentless goons. At least the Flyers can say they contend year in and year out.

BTW, I assume you all know about my deep hatred for the three Eastern Canadian teams.

"NO HONOR"

"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."

by JpH89 on Mar 8, 2010 11:12 AM EST reply actions  

Apparently

That’s what Leafs fans want from their team.

I hope Orr keeps playing like that for the rest of the season. He is the only thing worth watching on this team.

But we’re the Nazis…

by JasonB on Mar 8, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

You left out the best part :

To me, seeing the Flyers being made to look like pussies in their own building was far more entertaining than winning a game that doesn’t really matter.

Yeah, like they’re going to lower themselves to the Leaves level, hey thanks for all those Power Play opportunities, too bad they couldn’t score on all of them.

Also, what the hell is their obsession with the Flyers anyway? Leaves fans always seem to have some sort of comment for anything about the Flyers,did I miss something? I mean, other than the what, 2 or 3 times they met in the Playoffs?

Oh, This is bound to be good
You can't, but you thought that You could

by jello44 on Mar 8, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

We were made to look like pussies in our own building? That’s news to me.

Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Come on, Geoff. See the light. You’re only coooool if you take out the other goalie.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Mar 8, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah because looking cool is what gets you points in the standings…and yet Flyers fans are the ones that have an inane desire for a bloody showcase rather than a winning hockey team…it all makes sense now.

by EREX21 on Mar 8, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, then if Leafs fans talked to Penguins fans, they should agree that Mike Richards is the epitome of cooool

Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2010 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought your team not stepping up to defend Leighton after Orr blew him away was pretty pathetic. I might have missed something that your team did to exact some sort of retribution, but the Flyers of old would not have taken that. Somebody would have come to Leighton’s defence after what Orr did to him. Nobody did as far as I saw. Hence the your Flyers looked like pussies in your own building comment.

by Pyramid Power on Mar 9, 2010 5:56 AM EST up reply actions  

And that was immediately after Carcillo took the other cheek or between the cheeks depending on how you view the situation.

by M from Pdaddy on Mar 9, 2010 6:57 AM EST up reply actions  

The Flyers are pussies?

Well, you know what they say, “You are what you eat.”

by Phalange on Mar 9, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Damn, you got us there. Wow if only we could be tough like the leafs, instead of worrying about stupid things like winning hockey games and making the playoffs. If only we were more like the Leafs.

by Pondhockey on Mar 9, 2010 9:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, heaven forbid we be smart enough to let Orr take the stupid penalty, rather than retaliate and end up in a 4-on-4.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Mar 9, 2010 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

See, you think not retaliating is “pretty pathetic” and makes one a “pussy”. But taking three cheap shots at a guy who isn’t retaliating is pretty pathetic, and running over a defenseless goalie is not only pathetic, classless, and stupid, but it got your guy benched for the game.

So while you are over here thinking Orr made us look weak and stupid, he was on the bench being punished by his coach for being stupid and undisciplined. Who’s right? You or Ron Wilson?

Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 9, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

If Orr wasn’t benched for almost the rest of the game, I’d agree with you. He may have played like two more shifts after that in a close game.

Broad Street Hockey - SB Nation's Philadelphia Flyers Blog. Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Travis Hughes on Mar 9, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, I just looked it up (I thought he was benched for the entire game) and he had 5 shifts in the 1st period (one after the interference penalty), 4 in the second (2:27 TOI) and 2 in the third (1:21 TOI).

More than I thought. But yeah, I agree with you, as evidenced by my above comment.

Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 9, 2010 12:56 PM EST up reply actions  

My simple point is that the Flyers had plenty of chances to gain retribution immediately after the play against Leighton by Orr – or later. That did not happen. I was and will always be surprised.

These are not the Flyers that I know. It was strange. I am not condoning what Orr did at all. I am condemning it. So to see the orange and black do nothing, well, what would Dave ‘The Hammer’ Schultz say? What would Don ‘Big Bird’ Saleski say? What would Andre ‘Moose’ Dupont say? What would Ross Lonsberry say? What would the Watson brothers say? What would Freddie Shero say? What would Gary Dornhoefer say? And on and on – you get the point.

Don’t get me wrong here btw: I happen to be a Leaf fan who is very much interested in the fortunes of the Flyers. I like your team dating back to the Broad Street Bullies era, and some awesome series with my Leafs hence my handle Pyramid Power.

Anyway, take care gentlemen and I will always be very grateful to your team for dispatching the freakin’ Canadiens in five two years ago. Awesome! Hope your team goes deep again this year, and eradicates two of my most hated teams if possible – the Canadiens and Senators. That would be very nice.

by Pyramid Power on Mar 9, 2010 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

They’d say: “Making other teams more interested in retribution than playing hockey is exactly how we won two Cups.”

by MarioD on Mar 9, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think they would say that at all. Fear and intimidation is what won the Flyers those two Cups along with the amazing goalkeeping of Bernie Parent. And the Clark/Leach/Barber line was pretty damned good too.

I would think they would say there is something wrong with our guys today: why the hell didn’t they take care of business against Orr and anyone who messed with our sacred goaltender in the way that he did? I hope that does not happen again.

But this team certainly are not the Broad Street Bullies and this is 2010 not 1975. So a little unfair of me to make those remarks comparing teams and eras. Just having a little fun.

by Pyramid Power on Mar 9, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

MarioD

The Bullies certainly were masters at getting other teams off their games though. Can’t disagree with that at all.

by Pyramid Power on Mar 9, 2010 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I have to admit – I was expecting Orr to get wailed upon during his next shift after running Leighton. And when it didn’t happen, I felt like the Flyers weren’t enforcing some respect for their goalie. THAT would have been the time for Carbomb to go nuclear on the guy – or better yet, Lappy could have punished him. I am assuming that Leighton himself said something about preferring a win over retribution, and the team respected his wishes. That’s the only way I can see it justified.

by penguinsfan on Mar 9, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, agreed. Carbomb would get firebombed by Orr though imo. I don’t know a Flyer that would be able to go nuclear on Orr. Not Lappy, not Hartnell, not anyone. Not important though in today’s game – in the playoffs. The Flyers won’t need a world-class enforcer then of course.

I am assuming it was Laviolette that reined in the team, and said let’s just get two points and get the hell outta here. I think the two teams play again if I am not mistaken. Maybe Laviolette said we’ll get Orr next time when we are safely in the playoffs – hopefully. Very puzzled by that. Wonder what the Philly hockey sportswriters, media etc….. had to say about that incident?

by Pyramid Power on Mar 9, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Carcillo’s goal, offsides or not was f’ing beautiful.

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on Mar 8, 2010 11:18 AM EST reply actions  

ice time

I really think the discipline has a lot do with the ice time he is getting now. I imagine he likes to play and get out there instead of taking penalties and sitting in the box. When he wasn’t getting much ice time under Stevens what is the difference from sitting in the box for 5 minutes after fight or sitting on the bench for 5 minutes between shifts.

by chrislanci on Mar 8, 2010 11:44 AM EST reply actions  

Homer was right.

Didn’t Homer say it when he traded Carcillo trust me Flyers fan are going to love this guy. I it took a while but Homer was right on this one. Rick Tocchet in 3 years hopefully.

by chrislanci on Mar 8, 2010 11:48 AM EST reply actions  

side thread:

tocchet 1989 vs carcillo 2010- who ya got when the gloves drop?

at this point, i’d still give it to tocchet. tocchet had better balance and footwork. and a stronger mullet.

Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance

by psudrozz on Mar 8, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Tocchet would have eaten him alive.

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Mar 8, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Man I hate to chase you around disagreeing but I have to lay a Blasphemy charge on you for that comparison. Rick Tocchet was the total package. To even think Carcillo is on pace to accomplish what Rick Tocchet did in his worst years is kind of crazy. Rick Tocchet was holding down 50 and 60 point seasons while accumulating more than 100 plus PIM . But again as I said in the Gagne fan post I love your positive enthusiasm. Stay that way.

by M from Pdaddy on Mar 8, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Chico Carbomb...

I knew you guys would all come along…eventually. When he left Phoenix, I was pretty bummed because I saw all of this potential in him that was not being developed at all here.

Happy to see it happening for him now and to see him thriving…

Support Coyotes Hockey - Five For Howling
(Oh, and go Philly teams as well!)

by Jordan Ellel on Mar 8, 2010 12:16 PM EST reply actions  

Mor,

you should be more concerned about losing your entire team!

Cheers! From your friendly hockey board troll.

by Goon-Squad on Mar 8, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah,

I heard they were running off to Winnipeg in the middle of the night or something…

The only place this team is going is the playoffs…

Support Coyotes Hockey - Five For Howling
(Oh, and go Philly teams as well!)

by Jordan Ellel on Mar 9, 2010 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey, I’m in that picture, right over Carcillo’s right hand, in the grey hat.

Awesome.

by zachtbhood on Mar 8, 2010 2:02 PM EST reply actions  

That’s pretty sweet.

Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Mar 8, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey, go figure. Lavi’s passion has sparked a complete change in attitude and playing style from a Flyer many checked off as being another dumb goon. Something Stevens “I like standing behind the bench and making mildly disapproving faces at my team” couldn’t pull off.

Wasn’t it MarioD who claimed Lavi’s coaching styles would result in the team falling apart, not playing better?

(Hint : It was.)

Also… Is it just me, or did Stevens remind you of anyone?

by BroadStreetBully on Mar 8, 2010 3:05 PM EST reply actions  

Fantastic. I’m still angry at Bill Watterson for taking away the greatest way to start a day….

by Vansteel on Mar 8, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

True, but to be fair, at least he went out on top. Look at some of the other strips that are still around but have outlived their prime. Garfield is a prime example of a comic that should have ended about 5-10 years ago and I LOVED Garfield growing up.

Oh, This is bound to be good
You can't, but you thought that You could

by jello44 on Mar 8, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

The likeness is uncanny.

Oh, This is bound to be good
You can't, but you thought that You could

by jello44 on Mar 8, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Just curious, do you watch some other team play hockey and pretend its the Flyers?

by MarioD on Mar 8, 2010 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

just curious, are you always a douchebag or is it just your online persona?

by hockey punk on Mar 9, 2010 2:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Would that make Scott Hartnell Calvin? ;-) And as you know, the Flyers and Hobbes both wear Orange and Black.

Alas, C&H is missed… and with good reason. It was funny. While it is missed, at the same time, Watterson did shut it down before he had a “Jump the Shark” moment…

Let's go Caps!

by MikeL-Caps on Mar 9, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Much like Berkeley Breathed with Bloom County, which is easily my all-time favorite.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Mar 9, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Also very much missed… along with Gary Larson and The Far Side….

Let's go Caps!

by MikeL-Caps on Mar 12, 2010 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Mike Richards forced Carcillo, who wasn’t on the docket to speak to the media following that game, to trudge out into the cameras and speak about his actions.

Not bad for a guy who is constantly being questioned for his leadership.

by M from Pdaddy on Mar 8, 2010 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

Travis, you are a funny man.

"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich

by CP2Devil on Mar 8, 2010 8:26 PM EST reply actions  


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