Thursday Morning Fly By: Islanders Game Day, Duchesne to Backup Boucher, and Phantoms Miss Playoffs
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 1, 2010 11:21 AM EDT
in Morning Fly By
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PrintToday's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Last night's NHL scores... BUF 6 - FLA 2; CAR 2 - MTL 1; TB 2 - PIT 0; CHI 4 - MIN 0; DAL 5 - SJ 1; ANA 5 - COL 2; CGY 2 - PHX 1
- Montreal's loss last night puts Atlanta only 2 points out of the playoffs.
- Previews of tonight's game: [NHL.com] [CSNPhilly] [Lighthouse Hockey]
- The MSM trifecta is complete: The third Ville Leino story in three days. [CSNPhilly]
- As reported yesterday by euroflyers, the Flyers officially announced the signing of Erik Gustafsson. [DelcoTimes]
- Perfectly named story: "Phoenix Coyotes: WTF?" [Behind The Net]
- Fantastic breakdown by Tom Awad on the Flyers season. Jekyll and Hyde act analyzed. [Puck Prospectus]
- James van Riemsdyk is struggling. So he is taking advice from... Danny Briere. Is that supposed to cheer us up? [Daily News]
- Also in the above story is news that Jeremy Duchesne will be the backup tonight, as Johan Backlund is still out with a groin injury.
- This comes after Duchesne was pulled from the Phantoms game last night after "allowing 3 goals on 16 shots, including one from center ice." [Tim McManus] Awesome.
- The Phantoms lost 3-2 last night to officially end their playoff hopes. "Needing at least two third-period goals to stay alive in the playoff chase, the Phantoms took three shots. If that ain’t the season in a nutshell." [PostStar]
- Lastly, interesting story on a new medical procedure the Flyers have taken a liking to. [DelcoTimes]
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Commence with hoping that under no circumstance Duchesne has to come into the game.
Knocked on wood to be safe.
I’m really hoping the AHL puts the game highlights up today, because I really wanna see that.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 1, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
i know tavares is looking forward to playing the flyers.
side question:
would you have the flyers pull an ’08 pens move and potentially lose to have a shot at the devils in the first round?
this is, of course, hypothetical. at this point, i just want to lock up a playoff spot.
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
I would much rather see the team keep winning and make sure they are in the playoffs and not sitting in the number 8 seed. I DO NOT want to see Washington in the first round.
"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."
Flyers Television Play-by-Play Man: Jim Jackson
I just don’t want to see the Pens in the first round. In order of confidence: Devils, Sabres, Caps, Pens. If we get eliminated by the Pens in the first round again after the season we’ve had, there will be nothing redeeming about 2009-10.
Sam Carchidi is on Twitter now. Welcome him to 2009.
http://twitter.com/broadstbull
Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. Got goaltending? Searching since 1987.
/snore
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 1, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The Islanders pregame blog, http://sbnation.com/e/1163322, has not only an epic title, but also some interesting information regarding playoff data of the past couple seasons.
I loved every minute of it and I’m not even an Islander fan. If I wasn’t a Flyer fan, I’d want the Islanders to win just on the merit of how great that article is.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 1, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Another block quote from an article everyone has access to, but maybe the best way to sum up the Carcillo suspension, in my opinion.
But then I got a grip and remembered the league allows fights and aggression, but it does not allow your stick to be involved in your aggression under any circumstances — accidental or otherwise. In short, except when following through on a shot, you are always responsible for your stick, even more so than your elbows. You are allowed a gun, and you are allowed to hunt, but if you wave your gun in an altercation and it “accidentally” goes off, you’re responsible.
That makes sense. But the rule allowing for a match penalty requires an “attempt to or deliberately injure”. Even accepting that Carcillo is responsible for his stick, that’s a “high stick”. That justification does not explain the match penalty v. rule book contradiction, nor does it explain the equal punishment of ending Brian Campbell’s season v. making Clarkson bleed.
No one I know has a problem with Carcillo getting a penalty, and I personally have no problem with him getting tossed from the game IF it was to maintain order, even though the rules require an attempt to injure. But the suspension was just utter crap.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 1, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the league’s thinking — and I recognize it’s really, really dangerous folly to try to get inside the league’s head — is that a “high stick” is careless use of the stick during normal gameplay. But a “high stick” or any other use of the stick during an aggressive act/altercation is something else, and suspendable. In other words, if you’re attempting to injure with your fist — which is essentially what a fight is, though the league allows it in its honor code — you’re fine, but once your stick enters the equation, you’re not.
I don’t have the examples on hand, but I remember the league following that line pretty consistently(?!?) in the past. Honestly, I almost weighed in here on you guys’ thread afterward in support, because I thought Carcillo had been jobbed and didn’t deserve the match (and it takes A LOT for me to empathize with Carcillo). But then I remembered what I believe is that distinction.
Not that it necessarily makes sense. And not that the league would bother to actually explain its ruling rather than issue the generic “was suspended for an incident in Game #X.” And not that two games here vs. two games there makes sense…
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
I agree, and that’s why I don’t see any value to the objections, regardless of what the league rules may be.
Do I think there’s anything in black and white that states “Do what Carcillo did and it’s a suspension?” No. But I think he absolutely deserves to sit down, because he used his stick to cross check and (I hate to harp on this, but you know I will) it hit a man in the face. He’s responsible for that stick and those hands.
And my problem though is that a game misconduct is plenty. But giving a guy a two game suspension for an accidental cross check to the face doesn’t make sense.
- The play was reckless, but not intentional.
- The actual dangerousness of it can be debated.
- This could just as easily have been a 4 minute double-minor, but he instead he got 2 and 10 (Game).
- This was very clearly a “reputation” suspension because…
- There was no injury
So the reaction to all of that is to treat it the same as a slew foot, a check from behind/boarding, a blindside elbow to the head, and numerous others.
Which is telling all players in the NHL that if you make a DANGEROUS play, where you could have easily blown out a guy’s ACL, you give a guy a concussion, and you end a guy’s season, it will be treated EXACTLY like you accidentally cross-check a guy in the face.
Obviously, two games here would be fine if Cooke, AO, and Plekanec got at least 5 games (10-20 for Cooke, 5-10 for AO, 5 for Plekanec). But they didn’t. And that’s why the NHL sucks.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 1, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying the NHL makes sense. I agree the crimes you listed should have gotten heftier sentences. However, my only two points: 1. It’s still dangerous, even if it’s not hit-from-behind dangerous, 2. Whatever the rules have to say about intent vs. accident, it’s been clear for years that league expects to have control of your stick at all times. There are no “accidental highstick,” from a punitive point of view.
We seem to agree, for the most part, and just draw different conclusions. I don’t care about relativity here, I just care whether the punishment is right or wrong. I certainly think the NHL came to the conclusion of 2 games from the wrong angle—i.e. reptuation—but I agree completely with the amount of time he has to serve. And, come on, it’s just two games and it’s just Carcillo. Let’s find other things to complain about.
The problem is that the only reason that stick was high was because of Clarkson’s hands throwing off his gloves and knocking it up.
haha, I seriously just laughed at the mental image of Colin Campbell hearing the words “contributory negligence.”
Seriously, picture it. Once you do that, you’ll understand why “Clarkson contributed to the negligence of the play” truly doesn’t matter.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 1, 2010 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I might be stupid, but in refering to a match penalty, is “intent to injure” just a subset of that? My questions comes from the fact that Yahoo’s listing in the box score actually read “Intent to Injure” not “Game Misconduct” or anything like that for the penalty.
"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."
Flyers Television Play-by-Play Man: Jim Jackson
So there is a team that feels more slighted by the NHL and it’s disciplinarian than the Flyers?
I never knew.
The Red Wings probably have a stronger argument than the Flyers, to be honest.
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 1, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Any team that plays the Penguins probably has a legitimate case.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 1, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I see Campbell’s approach as, if it was done by a Flyer with a reputation it’s a suspension. If it was done by an anonymous Islander it’s a suspension. If it was done to an Islander it didn’t happen. If both are in the same game it’s a wash.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
Dominik, you sir are a genius. Nice pre-game article.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 1, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha, thanks. I haven’t been called that since breakfast, and I’m pretty sure she didn’t mean it.
For those remarking on the “hate/anger” — nah, no rage. Hockey is for entertainment purposes only.
Lighthouse Hockey: What's wrong with lotteries? I've been in lots of lotteries.
From that Puck Prospectus article:
Yet, at the end of the day––believe it or not––goaltending is a comparatively minor issue for the Flyers. As we’ve seen, Philadelphia’s Achilles’ Heel is their offensive inconsistency.
And I think this is the reason we have hope, still. Our goaltenders have been a mostly invisible variable in the success of this team.
good article, it put into words exactly what has frusturated everyone this season. If this team can heat up the offense for a 16 game stretch, we have a small chance.
course, I might win the lotto on saturday as well.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 1, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
lines
Anyone know what the hell the lines are going to look like tonight with Carcillo and Carter out.
Any chance of
JVR-Richards-Giroux
Gagne-Briere-Leino
Hartnell-Powe-Asham
Cote-Betts-Lappy (not that Cote will actually get any ice time)
I’d love to see it. I’ve wanted Richie and Rabbit together for a while now. Can’t be any worse than Hartnell or Carbomb.
According to Carchidi
Two of the lines will be:
Hartnell-Richards-Giroux
Gagne-Briere-Leino
I am guessing that the others will be:
JVR-Powe-Asham
LCB 2.1 (Cote kernel)
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
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