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Why Don't the Flyers Play in Front of Boucher?

Pretty much all year, we've seen Brian Boucher get the hard-luck loss.  He gives up 2 goals, the team scores 1.  If he gives up 1 goal, the team gets shut out.  If he has a bad day and gives up 4 goals, the team actually scores - three goals.  No matter what he does, it seems as if the team will score exactly one goal less than he gave up.

Boucher's record this year is 8-18-3.  Has he really played this poorly?  To answer that question, TImo Seppa wrote a great article on the subject.  You can read it here.  Here's a small recap.  If you breakdown every game started by the three Flyers netminders, you see not much difference.

A fellow Puck Prospectus writer - Rob Volllman - found that when a goalie has a save percentage of .913 or higher in a game, he's expected to have a .777 winning percentage.  A full breakdown is available in the article.

But what does this mean?  Ray Emery and Brian Boucher have almost identical numbers.  Both have 15 games of .913 or higher save percentage.  Both have 11 games of .899 or lower.  Why the disparity?

Jump to see a breakdown of Boucher's season.

Star-divide

First, let's look at the games where Boucher had a .913 or higher save percentage - but the Flyers lost.

  • Nov. 23 @ COL:  In relief of Emery, Boucher stops 13 of 14 shots.  He gets the loss - .929 S% 
  • Nov. 28 @ ATL:  Boucher starts and stops 17 of 18 shots.  The only goal against came on a two-man advantage for the Thrashers.  The Flyers get shut out - .944 S%
  • Dec. 10 v. OTT:  Boucher stops 23 of 24 shots, only allowing a rebound goal.  The Flyers get shut out - .958 S% 
  • Dec. 17 v. PIT:  Boucher stops 28 of 30 shots, the Flyers lose in a shootout.  Both goals came on the power play, both came on rebounds. - .933 S%
  • Dec. 19 v. NYR:  Boucher stops 22 of 24 shots.  The first goal came off a turnover, the second came off Ryan Parent's leg.  The Flyers only score one goal - .917 S%
  • Mar. 16 @ NSH:  In relief of Leighton, Boucher stops 24 of 25 shots.  He gets the loss in the shootout - .960 S%
  • Mar. 23 @ OTT:  In the game where Gagne was boarded, Boucher stops 24 of 26 shots.  The Flyers get shutout - .923 S%
  • Apr. 2 v. MTL:  Boucher stops 22 of 23 shots, but the Flyers get shutout - .957 S%

You want a list of all the games where Ray Emery had a .913 save percentage or higher - and still lost?

  • Oct. 10 v. ANA:  Emery stopped 31 of 33 shots, losing in overtime - .939 S%
  • Oct. 27 @ WAS:  Emery stops 32 of 35 shots, the Flyers only score twice - .914 S%

What about Leighton, you say?

  • Jan. 1 @ BOS:  Winter Classic, we all remember.  Leighton stopped 24 of 26 shots, gets the overtime loss - .923 S%
  • Feb. 3 @ EDM:  This one was rough too:  Ryan Potulny scoring with 17 seconds left, Flyers get shutout.  Leighton stops 26 of 27 - .963 S%
  • Feb. 6 @ MIN:  He stops 28 of 30 shots, the Flyers only score one goal against Anton Khudobin - .933 S%

That's it.  Six times Boucher starts, has a .913 save percentage, but the team only collects one point.  Four times, the team in front of Boucher couldn't score.  Emery has two starts where he has a .913 or higher save percentage, and the team collects one point.  Leighton has three starts, the team collects one point.

Four times, even if Boucher was PERFECT, he only had a 50% chance of winning - less if you consider how bad the Flyers are in the shootout.

After breaking down Timo's findings above, let's go back to his conclusion.  The team could expect to win 32.4 points in Emery's 28 starts; 32 points in Leighton's 23 starts; and 31.4 points in Boucher's 28 starts.  But obviously, that's not how it worked out.

With numbers almost exactly like Ray Emery's - when breaking down per game - Boucher only garnered 17 points to Emery's 33.  Take those four shut losses as the first step to wondering why Boucher's win-loss record is so bad.  That's four losses where Boucher only gave up 5 goals combined. 

Rather than keep harping myself, two excerpts from TImo's conclusion:

it’s not surprising to find out that Boucher’s goal support has been 2.18 GF per game versus 2.89 GF per game in Philadelphia’s other starts – Not bad goaltending, not bad luck, but rather bad support. In comparison, the league’s worst offense, that of the Boston Bruins, has scored 2.48 GF per game.

Yes, Boucher’s been bad, but the team in front of him has been far worse. Philadelphia’s chances of beating out New York and of pulling off a first round upset rest with the Flyers’ skaters, not with their goaltender.

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Team Chemsitry

The Flyers have lacked focus and chemistry throughout the entire season and have endured injuries to key players during important stages of the regular season. Despite all that they still have more wins that NY, Boston, and Montreal. I think that when you have a group of multi-millionaires on the ice, summer vacation looming, and no chance of being traded, missing the playoffs is not that big of a deal! Unfortunately I will have to watch the final stand on TV in upstate NY and listen to Al Trautwig talk about the heart of the Rangers to get back in the playoff race, and hear flyer post game comments from the boys in orange and black like “we just did not have it tonight”. Lets go toronto and to the boys in black and orange please win one tomorrrow for all the fans that pay your high salaries.

by upstateNYflyersFan on Apr 10, 2010 12:54 PM EDT reply actions  

What is this team chemistry thing? We all watch the games and yes they’re talented so naturally we want to find some excuse for poor play. But why does it go to team chemistry? No one is really, truly in the locker room that is commenting on this, reporter or fan. Honestly, to me it seems like they get along great and support each other as well as any other team.

I really have no idea what your watching. As frustrating as it is, they play really hard.

Here’s the end problem. They’re on their third goalie and maybe they don’t believe he can take them all the way and maybe that is subconsciouly hurting them. They are playing hard though. I think you’re completely wrong.

by Will21 on Apr 10, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

i was referring to chemistry on the ice. they have tons of talent and they play hard. they just cannot seem to put it all together on a regular basis. i was not inferring that the locker room is divided i just feel that the combination of players on this team has been through alot this year but unfortunately cannot use it as a springboard to better performance.

by upstateNYflyersFan on Apr 10, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

This makes me sad…that is all.

"Good night. Good hockey."

by KreiderDesigns on Apr 10, 2010 12:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Boucher is not the problem

Hartnell made more money this season than all the goalies on our roster combined

by upstateNYflyersFan on Apr 10, 2010 12:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Hartnell isn’t the problem either. He is just part of it.

by EREX21 on Apr 10, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

just using him as an example. he is one of the spokes in our broken wheel

by upstateNYflyersFan on Apr 10, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

we need....

Upshall back

"Sugah n' rainbows"

"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."

by JpH89 on Apr 10, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

4 differemt people told me that last night at the bar.

Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance

by psudrozz on Apr 10, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Upshall back

4 differemt people told me that last night at the bar.

That makes five idiots.

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

You cant tell me that Upshall was not a bad player. Hes no superstar, but he is basically a 10x better Powe. He gave 110% every time, which is better then Hartnell or Richards ever do.

"Sugah n' rainbows"

"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."

by JpH89 on Apr 10, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lately carcillo has done just that.

by tmurder on Apr 10, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

The truly telling thing about those numbers?

Brian Boucher performed about as expected for his role. Which was essentially identical to Ray Emery.

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 1:06 PM EDT reply actions  

smart decisions

i am glad that i did not ruin my birthday last night by driving 1.5 hours to the garden to hear shirts and ties that call themselves hockey fans talk crap about how great the rangers are!

by upstateNYflyersFan on Apr 10, 2010 1:12 PM EDT reply actions  

instead i watched it on tv

by upstateNYflyersFan on Apr 10, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

whelp

happy bday, hopefully you get your present on sunday instead

by HankMonahan on Apr 10, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bad Chemistry

I said before that the team plays bad in front of Boucher. Its bad chemistry. In my opinion, they don’t trust his ability. And a lot of times he mishandles the puck or gets out of the net and then flusters the team. They seem to not know what to expect from him and get caught out of position due to him putting the puck in an unexpected place. Not solely blaming him, just an opinion

by paintedguy on Apr 10, 2010 1:22 PM EDT reply actions  

I have always viewed Boucher as a kind of hard luck player. He has always had some sort of weird karma around him. I would be curious to see statistics like what you have compiled above stretched over his career. I would expect a lot more of the same numbers and unfortunately the same results. But the truth is that although he is not to blame for the situation this team is in, he is not in any way the answer.

Just Call Me "M"!

by M from Pdaddy on Apr 10, 2010 1:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Look, he makes the occasional lunge play that is amazing but he always seems to give up 3-4 goals when he needs to stand on his head. You need a goalie that can just shut down a team that puts on consistent real pressure during a game. Boucher, just like Biron, doesn’t do that. The D can and does need to play better but you can go to numbers and just say poor Boucher. Numbers in hockey often lie more so than any other sport.

by Will21 on Apr 10, 2010 2:20 PM EDT reply actions  

he always seems to give up 3-4 goals when he needs to stand on his head.

The team’s third-string goalie, a career backup, and a ten-year veteran who just last week won his 100th career game… This is the guy that you need to “stand on his head”? Talk about misplaced expectations.

Numbers in hockey often lie more so than any other sport.

Which is the point of this post. Boucher is 8-18-3 this year. His save percentage is awful. His gaa is awful. Those numbers are lying. Boucher has played just as good as Emery or Leighton this year, but he doesn’t have results. He lets up 5 goals in 4 games and he’s 0-4-0. He had just as many terrible games as Ray Emery, but everyone says Boucher sucks. He doesn’t. That’s the point.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 10, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

But… he does suck. If you put together a highlight reel of the goals he’s let in, he’s let in a lot of goals I think a healthy Emery would have stopped. He’s a third string goalie (for a reason) who has let in a good amount of goals most 1st and 2nd string goalies in the league would stop. I’m not saying it’s his fault and I don’t hate him. He’s just a third-string goalie. He’s not nearly (and hasn’t been) as good as hardly any other starting goalie in the league. You need to watch the games and situations and actual goals (Not saying you haven’t) to see why he’s nowhere near the level of the normal healthy 1st string goalie in the league.

by Will21 on Apr 10, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would say he’s a backup goalie, but this is exactly my point. He’s not a starting goalie, so why does everyone expect him to play like a starter?

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 10, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes he has let in a lot of goals, but his lack of support in front of him would have given him a free pass on most of them. Look at all the one goal or shutout losses. A pimply-face severely obese nerd can score more than this team’s offense.

by Kanayd on Apr 10, 2010 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

1.) I don’t want to start a fan club for him, but I also don’t think he hasn’t gotten a fair shake. They don’t pay any of these goalies like NHL #1’s. You get what you pay for. It sucks how they have backed themselves into a corner with big contracts and NTC’s for most of the top forwards who haven’t earned many of their pay checks this year.

I also think it isn’t fair when people only seem to take shots at low cap cost guys who play hard every game and earn their money filling the roles they were signed to.

I don’t live in the area so on DirecTV I am forced to watch the other teams or national broadcasts about 90% of the time and it seems that a significant amount of the goals being let in by the Flyers are redirections or deflections off their own players, which even those announcers comment were not really savable, nothing the goalie could do.

2.) I am happy they made the playoffs and that they are playing NJ, personally I would have benched Carcillo and or Hartnell for both games this weekend and played Leino and maybe whomever was the highest scorer on the Phantoms.

3.) Can anyone answer why Carle is rarely thrown under the bus as some of the other defenders? (He did have a descent weekend), but his season numbers are inflated playing with Pronger. Here again another guy with a large cap hit long term deal and instead, Coburn (who I agree is having his worst year) is blasted almost daily?

4.) I was disappointed at last year’s trade deadline, they needed to improve in front of their goalies and face-offs, they didn’t. All they did was mess with the team chemistry (Upshall, never my favorite, but provided an offensive spark). and brought in the guy that probably cost them the series against the Pens (and the game Friday night) by giving the other team a focus when they were at a very low point or a critical PP.

Then in the offseason they addressed those holes (Pronger & Betts) and then most of the rest of the team took a step back (Hartnell, Briere, Carter, Giroux, Richards, Gagne). I wonder who was thinking that van Riemsdyk would just play through his 2nd half rookie struggles, was pure desperation.

by McCrimmonMellanbyBrind'AmourUmburger on Apr 12, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

To your #1 there, I mentioned yesterday (not here, but at the meetup) that I don’t think many of the goalies we’ve drafted recently have gotten a fair shake by this organization. Now that I’m home to look it up, only 4 goalies we’ve drafted in the last 20 years have gotten ‘significant’ playing time with the Flyers (for this paragraph, I will define significant as 50 games or more): Tommy Soderstrom, Brian Boucher, Antero Nittymaki, and Roman Cechmanek. How many of those 4 guys were treated well and treated fairly by the organization and fans? I don’t think any of them truly did… while they had bright shining moments, they were torn down emotionally as soon as something went wrong.

by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 12, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

And yes, if they’re going to win the Cup he will need to stand on his head a few times throughout the playoffs. Everyone knows a goalie needs to do that. I don’t care what he is or what he’s capable of, I’m just saying to win it all, he needs to be able to do that.

by Will21 on Apr 10, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, this team isn’t going to win the Cup. But if they want to, they have a lot of things to fix before “Boucher needs to stand on his head.” They can start with stopping the defensive breakdowns (Ex: Jody Shelly’s goal last night), then stop taking so many penalties (Ex: Pittsburgh game above where both goals came on the PP), and move onto scoring (Ex: Any of the four games Boucher stood on his head, but the team didn’t score).

If all of that is fixed, and Boucher still loses, then it’s his fault. Until then, the team needs to start playing like they have a backup goalie in net and not like they have Roberto Luongo back there.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 10, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess I’m just not sure what current NHL games you’ve been watching that don’t have all the problems you’ve just listed. Every team has breakdowns, penalties, and games where they don’t score. You’ll complain forever about those three things no matter what team you root for whether it’s the Capitals or Islanders or anything in between. There will be a few defensive breakdowns in every current game you watch. It’s a matter of if the goalie stops a few of them and doesn’t let in any soft goals.

by Will21 on Apr 10, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Certainly. But Boucher didn’t let in any soft goals the last four games, but the team is 2-2-0. And everybody is questioning the goalie.

All I’m saying is that Boucher is not this team’s problem. But everyone loves to point to the NYI game – where the first three goals were not at all his fault, by the way – or the MIN game. For every NYI or MIN game, I’ll show you an OTT or MTL game. Which brings us back to – Boucher is what he is. If you want a scapegoat, look to the 18 guys skating in front of him.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 10, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Boosh

I don’t think he is bad; it’s just that the team plays badly in front of him.

I don’t expect him to be here next year because he probably wants a fresh start. I could see him going somewhere like Calgary, where they will be re-tooling with cap issues-a-plenty AND in need of a backup. They ain’t keeping Vesa Toskala, that’s for sure.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Apr 10, 2010 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

He’s from Massachusetts, has lived in Philly for the majority of his professional life, why on earth would he want to go to Calgary?

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s played there before.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 10, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s played there before.

And?

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does he have a No-Trade Clause? Assuming he doesn’t, it doesn’t matter where he wants to go.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Apr 10, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

he probably wants a fresh start. I could see him going somewhere like Calgary

You’re the one who said he’d want to go to Calgary.

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

He said he could see him(Bouch) wanting a fresh start and he could see him going to Calgary.

He did not say that Bouch wanted to go to Calgary, which is what you are implying.

The reality is, the Flyers could trade him anywhere they want and he has no choice but to go there.

by EREX21 on Apr 10, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can’t have it both ways.

Either Bouch wants to be traded and the Flyers follow his wishes or the Flyers don’t care what he wants.

If the Flyers don’t care what he wants, then why on earth would they trade him?

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I did not imply that Brian Boucher wanted to go to Calgary. Here is my whole quote:

I could see him going somewhere like Calgary, where they will be re-tooling with cap issues-a-plenty AND in need of a backup.

If I was unclear I apologize; but I was actually implying that Calgary might be interested in Boucher because they will need an affordable back-up goalie. I don’t think that Boosh is going to say “Trade me to Calgary!” on Monday, but if he does want to be traded, I wouldn’t be surprised if Calgary came calling. And if they did, it’s perfectly reasonable to see why Boosh could be dealt there. It has nothing to do with his wishes.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Apr 10, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

But your "whole quote’ ignores the sentence in front of it

I don’t expect him to be here next year because he probably wants a fresh start.

implying that he would request a trade.

There’s still no basis whatsoever to think that Brian Boucher would be traded this summer.

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

implying that he would request a trade.

Right, but if he does that, he doesn’t have a choice as to where he would go. Besides, if he wanted to be traded, and Calgary were the only interested team, would he say, “It’s too cold there!”? No.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Apr 10, 2010 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, you’re leaping to this conclusion that:

a) He would want to be traded
and
b) The Flyers would want to trade him

There’s no basis for either of those suppositions

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

So why would he have wanted to go there before?

The answer is the same as this one: A) It’s not his call; B) He wants to play

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 10, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats not what Mike implied.

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s from Massachusetts Rhode Island

Fixed. Plus, you could easily say:

He’s from Rhode Island, has lived in Philly for the majority of his professional life, why on earth would he want to go to Phoenix / San Jose?

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Apr 10, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because Phoenix and San Jose are warm weather, American cities, not Siberia.

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Boosh is a legend in Phoenix. And SJ gets cold, its the same weather as SF and Oak.

"Sugah n' rainbows"

"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."

by JpH89 on Apr 10, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Boucher's stats are misleading

The questions with a goalie are what kind of goals does he let in, and when does he let them in?
If you watch Boucher, he tends to let in at least one and most times two bad goals, goals that an NHL goalie is expected to stop. And the Rags game winning goal was a perfect example of when a goalie HAS to make the save. Boucher had a terrible angle and was still moving when the puck went over his glove, and there was no other Ranger in sight so he could concentrate on the shooter.
It tells you everything you need to know when management was willing to put an untested Backlund in rather than go with Boucher. He sucks.
Anyone want to bet whether Boucher serves out his contract next year with the Flyers in the NHL?

by paolipress1 on Apr 10, 2010 5:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Disagree with everything. You look at that game,
Goal 1 – PP goal, if anyones fault it would be Pronger
Goal 2 – Coburn…
Goal 3 – Great goal, helped by Carle deflecting the puck and putting it on Dubinsky’s stick and Pronger being a bit weak
Goal 4 – I am positive that was deflected by Carle. I saw an angle where Boosh seemed to have it lined up from the point of the shot but then it went high
If that Shelley goal went in, then maybe you could argue Boosh cost us the game but he simply did not.

New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan

by ToddtheFox on Apr 10, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only thing I disagree with is goal 2. Coburn played a loose puck/made himself an outlet for Kimmo. That goal is on JVR for not even attempting to keep his man from going straight to the net.

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I said the same in the game thread last night about Coburn, but I would say either JVR or Giroux could have actually picked up the open man (even if he would have been JVR’s man in theory, G still watched it happen). Both had a clear view of the open man, but both skated away.

by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 10, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure where Giroux was on the ice?

The puck went backwards and JVR skated around Shelley towards the neutral zone, for no discernable reason whatsoever, without touching him. Giroux should’ve been on the other wing, against the boards, no?

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Giroux and Coburn had the best chances of getting Shelley.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Apr 10, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not the guy who lined up directly next to him on the faceoff and was responsible for covering him (JVR) ???

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

But he booked it to the point, as if his “man” is the guy at the blueline. Which it is. So, no. If that puck gets drawn backwards, It is not his job to go back with it.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 10, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just because he covered the wrong man doesn’t make that new guy his man.

His man is the guy right next to him who he’s not supposed to let walk in on goal all alone while he skates away from the play.

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wingers are responsible for getting to the point on defensive faceoffs.

"Good night. Good hockey."

by KreiderDesigns on Apr 10, 2010 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not when you win the faceoff.

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

So JVR is supposed to throw a pick on a guy who is trying to get to a puck? That’s a penalty.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 10, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s supposed to stay between that guy and the net. That’s called EVERY FACEOFF IN EVERY GAME.


by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

He heads to the point to cover his man. And if Coburn doesn’t eff up right there, JVR can expect a puck off the glass right to where he’s going.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 10, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

No. If Coburn gets the puck its going behind the net to Giroux.
1) JVR won’t be able to get to the boards in time for that pass
2) There are five men between the puck and that location where you think he would be
3) Even if the puck magically got there, JVR is going to get steamrolled by the right defenseman and turn the puck over.

Thats the worst play they could ever think to execute.

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, JVR goes to an open area of the ice. I didnt see the whole play, but from that screen, it looks like hes just getting open. As it looks, there are 3 Flyers and 3 Rangers fighting for the puck, so there really isn’t a need for him to go there. Again, I didnt see the play, but it looks like your arguing that all 5 players should be chasing the puck at all times.

"Sugah n' rainbows"

"We will steal the show, jolly Rogers go, we are wolves of the sea."

by JpH89 on Apr 10, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

JVR goes to an open area of the ice

And that would be a fantastic thing if he ever did that in the offensive zone. But this is the defensive zone, and its the last thing you want to do.


but it looks like your arguing that all 5 players should be chasing the puck at all times.

I’m arguing that he should stay with his man in the D zone. Then, they’d have the Rangers outnumbered in that puck battle and could send it around to Giroux, forcing the Rangers Dmen to retreat and the Flyers would start their breakout.

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

And yet, amazingly, that’s not what NHL players do.

Watch this video of a Flyers defensive zone faceoff win, and you see Joe Thornton come into the camera while the winger who lined up next to him doesn’t go with him.

Or look at this image from Atlanta, where they win the defensive draw and the winger goes to the blue line:

JVR did what he was supposed to. Yet you still bitch that he didn’t take an interference penalty to save Braydon Coburn’s ass.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 11, 2010 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

1) That video shows Thornton skate to the corner. And whoever the wing is DOES NOT go forward into that dead man’s zone.
2) There is no image.

3) Most importantly, you’re not looking at players in the same formation.

I have no idea why they were set up with Giroux on that far wing, but when you do that, its about getting the puck to the far wing. There’s no reason to do what JVR did.

by MarioD on Apr 11, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Watch a hockey game. Today’s game saw the winger skate to the opposite point EVERY single time his team won the defensive draw. Every. Single. Time.

You are just flat out wrong.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 11, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually did pay attention.

And EVERY SINGLE TIME the inside guy on D harrassed the man next to him, and once his team had possession of the puck, started moving.

NEVER, did he skate around the offensive player and allow him a clear path to the goaltender.

by MarioD on Apr 11, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you’re wrong.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 11, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right.

Every team in the league plans, on defensive zone draws, to leave the other team’s left winger alone in the slot.

Have even thought about how fucking stupid your argument here is?

by MarioD on Apr 11, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mario, you’re wrong here. Winger responsibility in the defensive zone is the defenseman. Take your JVR witch hunt somewhere else.

The left wing on the draw is not JVR’s man. JVR’s man isn’t even in the picture.

The center and both defensemen are liable for the other team’s forwards on the draw. Been playing hockey for 20 years, and your assessment is dead wrong.

by Dinky on Apr 11, 2010 3:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

That’s if you lose the faceoff.

In that formation, the goal is to win it back to the Dman and its JVR’s job to keep his man from intercepting the Coburn to Giroux pass.

by MarioD on Apr 11, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

IMO the second goal was a bad play by the two defenders and the wing, but it was also a lot of luck and perserverance on Shelley’s part

New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan

by ToddtheFox on Apr 11, 2010 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, we win, we’re in and probably get the Devils in the first round.

So, you’re saying there’s a chance….

by Dinky on Apr 10, 2010 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Montreal and Toronto tied in the 3rd.

by EREX21 on Apr 10, 2010 9:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Well it’s in ot so now they can’t get 7th right? only 8th which means the caps if we win right?

by ryanitus on Apr 10, 2010 9:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Canadiens can only finish in 7th or 8th.
No. The Flyers can only finish in 7th or 9th.
The Rangers can only finish in 8th or 9th.

by MarioD on Apr 10, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Toronto wins in OT.

by ryanitus on Apr 10, 2010 9:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Win and the Flyers face Jersey. Lose and the Rangers face Washington.

Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?

by mikefive on Apr 10, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wrong

If the Sabres beat the Devils tomorrow and the Flyers win – they’ll play Buffalo.

I have respect for most sports fans with 2 exceptions: NY Ranger fans who grew up in New Jersey, and Dallas Cowboy fans who can't name the capital of Texas.

by Cherno77 on Apr 10, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

In regulation. If the game goes to OT devils have the tiebreak in more wins.

by bfrank27 on Apr 11, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I personally think Bouch has allowed too many soft goals BUT he is a back up goalie. And given that position, he has played overall outstanding. This blog did a great job putting that into perspective. And with the lack of production of goals, that is the reason we are in this position. Personally, I think many have been too tough on Leighton, I believe he was our best goalie this year. Opinion.

by DeanH on Apr 10, 2010 11:41 PM EDT reply actions  


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