Simon Gagne Out Three Weeks, Jeff Carter Out Six-Plus; Laliberte, Leino In For Game 5
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 4:05 PM EDT
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UPDATE 5:00 PM: Anthony SanFillippo reports that Carter will be on crutches for six weeks, meaning he would be able to return to the Flyers deep in the Conference Finals (again, by my quick estimation).
UPDATE 4:00 PM: The Flyers have announced that both Jeff Carter and Simon Gagne will have foot surgery on Friday. Gagne will miss three weeks, which would likely mean, by my estimation, a return around Game 3 or 4 Game 7 of round number two, should the Flyers get there. Carter is out indefinitely, according to the team. Tim Panaccio reported that he Carter was seen wearing a boot and wearing crutches today.
According to the Flyers' official site, both Simon Gagne and Jeff Carter will be out for tomorrow's Game 5.
Clearly, this is bad news. It's safe to say Ville Leino will play, but whether Riley Cote also dresses is unclear.
With this being the playoffs, the official release said they both "suffered injuries to their right foot" and are officially "day-to-day." It's pretty safe to say that a Flyers win on Thursday would be huge.
It also helps that the Flyers have more options than Riley Cote to suit up. Due to the expanded rosters for the playoffs, the Flyers could also dress Jon Kalinski, Andreas Nodl, or David Laliberte.
Figuring out who will play largely depends upon the line combinations, so lets have some baseless speculation, shall we?
Jump for speculation.
UPDATE 12 PM: Leino and Laliberte will replace Gagne and Carter, according to Anthony SanFillippo. Still, jump for speculation anyway.
In the last game before Jeff Carter returned to the lineup, these were the lines the Flyers deployed:
van Riemsdyk – Richards – Giroux
Gagne – Briere – Leino
Hartnell – Powe – Asham
Carcillo – Laperriere – Betts
Honestly, those don't really help since the Flyers are now without 2 of their top 5 forwards. With Carter out, I think it's more likely than not that Danny Briere slides back into the center position. Really, it's between him and Giroux, but Briere seems more likely. So Briere takes Carter's spot. Let's try these lines:
Carcillo - Richards - Giroux
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
Betts - Laperriere - Asham
van Riemsdyk - Powe - (fill-in)
Just remember this is pure speculation. Powe shifts back to center as Giroux gets bumped up to replace Gagne. van Riemsdyk could swap with Hartnell (JVR had more TOI than Hartnell in Game 4), but that a) is extremely unlikely; and b) would result in a rather small and un-physical line. Yeah, I invented a word. Got a better one?
Here's why I think these will be the lines: JVR already isn't getting much ice time, and he gets even less in NJ when he could be easily outmatched. When you shift Powe back to center, he won't be getting too much ice time either. Naturally, the two of them get paired together. Then, when you add the fact that you're inserting into the lineup someone who has played at most 89 minutes (Nodl) in the NHL this year, that fourth line won't see much time on the ice. Why not throw them together?
So you have a fourth line that will likely get less than ten minutes of ice time, does it matter which scrub you put in? Yes, yes it does. Simon Gagne kills penalties. So far this series, he has averaged just under 3 minutes of PK time per game. With him gone, Giroux (1:24 PKTOI/G) will likely double his PK time, with Darroll Powe (1:14 PKTOI/G) picking up some slack. You could really use somebody to play 70 to 90 seconds on the PK to replace the contributions of Giroux and Powe (who are replacing Gagne and Giroux, respectively). This leans me towards playing Andreas Nodl. He averaged 1:00 of PK time per game this year with the Flyers. He can definitely fill that role.
Now, some might say "but Gagne's a goal scorer! Carter is a goal scorer! Nodl isn't!" True. But Leino is a goal scorer, and neither Kalinski or Cote are. Laliberte did score 46 points in 66 games for the Phantoms, so he might have an argument to be one. But remember, these guys aren't going to score goals in the NHL playoffs. More importantly, the team isn't going to ask them to or give them the chance. Whoever gets inserted into the lineup will play on a little used fourth line. Any contribution from the new player will be a bonus, and as such, you should insert the guy who can actually fill a need: Andreas Nodl.
What do you guys think?
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The only forwards available (besides the 12 who’ve dressed all series) are:
Ville Lenno
Riley Cote
Jon Kalinski
Andreas Nodle
David Laliberte
Not sure I even have a suggestion. I need to see what the lines will be and then what the holes are. Basically, who do they want to play center?
My guess is they do this:
Hartnell-Richards-Carcillo
Leino-Giroux-Briere
JVR-Powe-Asham
In which case the most logical player, I think, is Nodl to add to Betts-Lappy on the fourth line.
Alternatively, maybe they go something like:
Giroux-Richards-Carcillo
JVR-Briere-Hartnell
Leino-Kalinski-Asham
Powe-Betts-Laperriere
I really don’t like that at all, especially on the road. I think, and this is really just an immediate reaction so I may completely change my mind in an hour or so, I would go:
Hartnell-Richards-Carcillo
Leino-Briere-Giroux
Powe-Betts-Laperierre
JVR-Kalinski-Asham
And just hide that fourth line the same way they hide the third pairing, as best as possible.
JVR-Kalinski-Asham
If that’s the 4th line then I’ll take it. JVR’s made some mistakes but has played with a lot of jump in this series. Asham has had a good series too.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Kalinski is 11 for 30 on faceoffs this year. That’s 36.7%. Last year, he was 21 of 46 for 45.6%.
I don’t want him taking faceoffs. Powe was 48.7% last year, 45.2% this year. Yeah, he’s not much better. But Kalinski doesn’t help you on the PK, so why force him into playing center when he can’t help you in faceoffs either?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I like the lines though, and moving Hartnell to the 1st line to play Gagne’s place is actually a hell of an idea.
My guess is Thursday’s game is going to be downright boring, trap style hockey (on our part anyway) and we hope that either we a) get lucky and pull a win out of our ass or b) carter and gags are healthy enough to play game 6.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 21, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
But I like keeping Richie and Carcillo together. If Hartnell takes Gagne’s place, that line isn’t very good. Having Giroux take Gagne’s place and Leino take Carter’s is a lot better:
Carcillo – Richards – Giroux
Hartnell – Briere – Leino
then worry about the bottom two.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
see, i’m of a different mind. I think sometimes instead of showing less faith in a guy who is struggling, maybe you show the guy more faith. Kind of like “Scotty, we know you’ve sucked so far this playoffs, but now is the time to step up and show us the player we KNOW you are.”
Kind of a bit reverse psychology because we all know that Hartnell is much better than what we’ve seen on the ice this season.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 21, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
And in general, I agree. But Hartnell hasn’t “sucked so far this playoffs”, he’s sucked so far this year. He’s played with everybody except Betts and Laperriere. He hasn’t snapped out of his funk.
He’s a minus-3 with five shots and zero points in the playoffs. Add that to his regular season, and he has 3 points (all assists) in 17 games while being a minus-7. If I remember correctly, he spent most of that time with Briere/Leino and Carter/Briere.
You don’t promote a guy with 0 goals, 3 assists, and a minus-7 in his last 17 games while demoting a guy who has as many points in his last 2 games.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
perhaps, but I also know that that first line is hypothetically going to draw their best defensive coverage as well. So why not leave Giroux on the second line where he may draw the inferior defense?
It’s not like they have to leave Hartnell there for the entire game. Give him 1 or 2 periods to take his shot. If it isn’t working, drop him back to line 2 and put Giroux with Richards. Now is the time to try and fire the players up with positive reinforcement instead of dwelling on their disaster seasons. I’m waiting for Hartnell to rise to the occassion, I can feel him about to break through because I know the Hartnell of this season, isn’t the guy we stole from Nashville.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 21, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I just disagree that Hartnell – Richards – Carcillo would draw the top defensive coverage and Leino – Giroux – Briere would draw secondary coverage. I’d imagine it would be the other way around. Whoever Giroux is paired with (be it Richards or Briere), he makes a for a more intimidating matchup than Hartnell/Richards or Hartnell/Briere to me.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Two of those -3 were from an empty net goal against and the shorthanded breakaway Matt Carle coughed up.
So -5 with 7 points, all assists in the last 17 games is that much better?
Can't think of something catchy to say here...I suck.
Was anyone a plus in the last 13 regular season games? The Flyers were outscored by 7 goals in those games.
Gagne +5
Asham -1
Briere -1
Carcillo -1
Betts -2
Laperierre -2
Powe -2
Richards -2
Carter -5
Hartnell -5
JVR -6
Giroux -8
I’m not sure if you’re advocating for Hartnell to move up or not.
These stats aren’t helping the case that he deserves a promotion. Especially when it would be Carcillo who get demoted.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Im pointing out that beyond the general worthlessness of +/- anyway, saying “Hartnell was a -5” is really not even close to fair considering the context that only 1 forward on the team was a +, not to mention that his linemate, Carter, was a -5 in just 7 games.
However, if you want to (dumbly) use +/- to make an argument, Hartnell should be on the first line ahead of both of the other most likely candidates: JVR and Giroux.
Here’s something interesting, though:
4/11 Carter -1, Hartnell -1
4/9 Carter 0, Hartnell 0
3/21 Carter -2, Hartnell -2
3/20 Carter -1, Hartnell 0
3/18 Carter 0, Hartnell 0
3/16 Carter 0, Hartnell 0
3/14 Carter -1, Hartnell -1
In the eight games Carter missed, Hartnell was -1. In 7 games with Carter, -4.
But plus/minus isn’t the only factor. Generally, it is worthless, and it isn’t helpful right here, but the playoff performance so far coupled with the point production show that Carcillo should not be moved off Richards’ line in favor of Hartnell.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just going to say the same thing. Hartnell is just having an awful year and his numbers clearly bare that out.
It’s sad that with a 3-1 series lead, and having outplayed the Devils for 90% of that series, that this news coupled with my pessimistic feelings as a fan, I am not nearly as comfortable as I should be.
Can't think of something catchy to say here...I suck.
Not even taking Hartnell’s play this year into account, I don’t personally think he would mesh well with that line anyway. Giroux is a far better choice, imo.
by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 21, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he’s saying Hartnell – Richards – Giroux, not Hartnell – Richards – Carcillo
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I was replying in agreement to you:
But I like keeping Richie and Carcillo together. If Hartnell takes Gagne’s place, that line isn’t very good.
by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 21, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah. I lost track… Good.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with what you’re saying in principal.
But I’d rather have the best 3rd line possible (which means Powe with Betts/Lappy) before I worry about the 4th line.
I’m there too because that 4th line is going to see little to no ice time.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 21, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I also have to agree with Mario.
And I would like to say it is a breath of fresh air to see Mario contributing without cinical comments or fights over stats! (No offense Mario, it’s a compliment)
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Is Asham really that much of a drop off though? I agree with you in principal, but if you put Kalinski in at center, you’re probably going to try and avoid having him take faceoffs. And at that point, why not throw Nodl in at center instead, since he can effectively kill penalties.
The irony here is that you were the one to convince me that Nodl has value. I just now believe his value is only as a penalty killer (his offensive game is about equal to Darroll Powe’s), so when you lose a PKer, why not replace with one?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think I understand, where did the Asham comment stem from?
I’m saying you fill in your three lines as best as possible, then the leftovers for the 4th line are Asham and JVR, so you need a center, and Kalinski is the only center available. Just a simple analysis.
Cause if Powe is centering the fourth line (as I suggested), you don’t put JVR or the call up with Betts/Lappy. That would be Asham.
So you have Asham and JVR on the fourth line, I have Powe and JVR on the fourth line.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Even after the fourth line would be Laliberte/JVR/Asham?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldnt banish JVR to the fourth line. Id send Hartnell or Leino there. Leino may have been good from what we’ve seen from him but he has been sitting for awhile.
I don’t want Hartnell Richard Carcillo for the simple fact that Hartnell will kill RIchards mojo. We would see more of Richards trying to do too much without someone on that line with hands. Hartnell – Briere – Leino worked well in the two games they kept that line together. I would go with Giroux and Carcillo with Richards. Giroux at RW and Carcillo back to his natural LW position. JVR with Lileberte and Asham and leave the 4th line alone. JVR will now get a lot more PP time to play with the better players but for his regular shift he gets stuck with those too. The way the refs are calling things he will probably get more ice time on the PP with Richards and Giroux then he will will Asham and Lileberte at even strength anyways.
Who is that 3rd line center?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Laviolette has coached a good series. He’s not going to put Riley Cote in during a game like this.
After Leino, Kalinski is the best of the bunch. If he plays, then he can say, “Skating in Game 5 against New Jersey… an indescribable feeling. It’s life-flowing.”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Whoever plays the best team defense
to make up for Parent and Coburn’s aimless skating would be helpful
Well that sucks!
So what do you guys think are chances are for winning Game 5 without those two in the line-up?
Updated story with my suggestion. And you all know how much we (me specifically) trash Andreas Nodl. But right now is where he has value.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 11:48 AM EDT reply actions
Updated story with the news..
Leino, Laliberte in.
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You mean the Adirondack line? He played with Nodl and Ross in Colorado, but I think you mean before that happened, right?
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, most of hte time he spent with Nodl and Ross… I’ll look into it in a sec.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
He spent 33.55% of his even-strength time with Carter and JVR, surprising.
Only 11.3% with Kalinski and Nodl. 16% with Powe and Giroux.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I would have rather seen Nodl in this spot. I don’t see Laliberte getting any significant ice time to generate much offense, and although he has been a disappointment, I think Nodl has displayed his defensive upside in his opportunities with the big club to make him valuable in a game without last change. Granted this is just my opinion from watching the two play with the Flyers (small sample), and I don’t have any stats to back this up. Also, I’ve had a man crush on Nodl since he played with St Cloud State, so my opinion is biased; I think I’m the only proud owner of a Nodl St Cloud State jersey (note the use of “proud”).
Well, you have me on your side.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Richards, Briere, Betts, and Powe would be the four centers. In my lineup anyway
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m bothered that this will hurt JVR’s effectiveness. He’s looked good, and Hartnell is the most useless Flyer since Pat Falloon.
But… I love the Laliberte call. Don’t know why, but I always like seeing him on the ice. This is nothing but a gut feeling.
I’ll settle for one. We always seem to get one out of the new guy.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 21, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m thinking that MikeFive is closer. I see tomorrow going:
Flyers 13, Devils 1
Laliberte: 6 Goals
Carcillo: 3 Goals
Pronger, Richards, Giroux and Briere each with one.
Parise for the Devils (credited, Scott Hartnell scores an own goal)
Brodeur makes 4 saves, Boosh stops 48 out of 49 shots.
54 minutes of the game spent on special teams.
wait-jvr looked good? he continually turned the puck over and tried the same outside move twice against a defense that wasn’t college level. he also took a stupid penalty when richards got destroyed on the board.
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
Standing up for you Captain on what many believe should have been a penalty against Zubrus is a stupid penalty? Isn’t that one of those “forgivable” ones? Obviously, it’s not Kimmo’s hook, but it’s also not a Briere high-stick or a Coburn hold, let alone a Hartnell goalie interference.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention it was a terribly called penalty. Absolutely shouldn’t have been called there.
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by Travis Hughes on Apr 21, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
On lone ranger rushes that is what you do you try to skate through everyone and wait for the line change as long as it his doing in the offensive zone not the neutral zone that doesn’t bother me. Richards penalty he stuck up for his teammate who flat out got ran at. Of all the damn penalties called in that game I don’t mind that one on bit.
Or you toss it in to the corner so you don’t end up with a turnover mid line change. I appreciate his effort, but sometimes I wish he would either fire it on net and try to force an offensive zone draw or just toss it in the corner for the whole sale change so there isn’t the chance of getting caught in transition during a change.
One on one with a defender it is unlikely the guy is going to strip you clean to make an play in transition both those rushes the puck ended up in the corner. If you dump on Broduer he has a better chance of make an outlet play in transition with the way he handles the puck. So far it hasn’t cost us.
Nah, RW
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish I could think about all this so pragmatically as you do guys… think of lineups and such. But I’m just this one crazy weirdo who’ll be just weeping over the loss of Gagne. Somebody should slap me… any volunteers?
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Weep not for Gagne,
For he had been snake-bitten
Before his toe broke.
Consider that a slap in haiku form.
I’ll miss Gagne too, but the team will just have to step up without him.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Thanks for the slap! But don’t get me wrong… I believe we can pull out a win on Thursday even without Gags (and Carter). I just wanted him to put a tally #19 behind Brodeur’s back… he was so close many times before during this series, it’s unbelivable. And now he’s out.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Most of his season has been like that. I’m right there with you on this – I feel bad for Simon. He’s one of the most consistently hard-working players on the team, but this year he has been injured and has not gotten the results.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
He’s been great after the Olympic break. I also remember the December game against the Rangers, when he scored the natural hat trick (I have it saved on dvd, uhm… talk about obsession). Yes, he’s one of the most consistent players. When he’s healthy, he really is a force. But so far in this playoffs, he’s just been very unlucky. Hence he doesn’t get enough credit… in my opinion.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
haha, I take comfort in knowing that you slide a couple pieces around, and the drop in production isn’t that bad. Don’t get me wrong, I love Gagne. But Giroux steps into his spot completely: On the first line, on the PK, and probably on the PP, though he was already there.
Briere slides into Carter’s spot and Leino slides into Briere’s. This, to me, is a much larger drop in production, but same skill set.
Then, you really just have to replace Giroux on the third line – which becomes the fourth. Yeah, you basically relegate JVR/Asham line to almost no ice time, but that’s why I wanted Nodl so that we still have some value.
Oh, I also wouldn’t be surprised to see JVR get some PP time, since he’ll get very little ES time. Unless Hartnell gets benched/dropped again.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
This just means we get to bring them both back for game 7!!
….too soon?
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by KreiderDesigns on Apr 21, 2010 12:16 PM EDT reply actions
i think that lavvy believes the flyers can beat the devils without the two of them, so as a precautionary measure they are being sat out. that being said (plugs ears with fingers) LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALACANTHEAR YOU LALALALALALALALA
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Maybe the Flyers should look into Skate Fenders.
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by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Apr 21, 2010 12:18 PM EDT reply actions
i was some what shocked i never heard anyone mention those in any of the broadcasts regarding carters return. i knowother players in the league use them after foot injuries why not ours?
Go Go Gadget Goddamnit!
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by KreiderDesigns on Apr 21, 2010 12:27 PM EDT reply actions
Richards
He went down ackwardly last night and seemed to be favoring his shoulder. I know he had shoulder surgery last off-season (right?). No indication on him being injured is there?
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by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 21, 2010 12:27 PM EDT reply actions
Good point. I noticed that too, hopefully it was just a stinger.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I vote to give Laliberte a chance. That kid’s got talent and if we don’t piss him away I’m sure he’ll make the cut either this season or next. =)
I can read the future, while lesser men read comic books.
That’s a lot more optimism than I have. He’s not bad, but at best, I see him as a third-line player.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
But he’s not there yet, and I guarantee that third line will be more like a fourth line if it is in fact JVR-Laliberte-Asham/Powe
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Two players went down whoever they bring in is not going to be there time to put on your big boy pants and step up.
Again, this is why I wanted Nodl. He could actually, you know, fill a role. Laliberte is a scorer. He’s being called up to be a grinder. It doesn’t fit him.
Unless, of course, they give him playing time with people who can score.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
StubHub has tickets for tommorrow’s game for less than 50 dollars before service charges. That’s insane. I wish I lived closer to Jersey.
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by KreiderDesigns on Apr 21, 2010 12:33 PM EDT reply actions
If I had a car, I’d so be going. By myself.
Shit, I might take the ridiculously long train ride.
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by Travis Hughes on Apr 21, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Give me gas money and I might consider it.
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by KreiderDesigns on Apr 21, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
If I could afford to go I’d offer to take you, but your gf would probably get mad anyway.
by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 21, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm, I don’t think that last part came out the way I meant it to…. I think you probably know what I meant though.
Sorry, I’m a zombie today, I was too tired to even go to work today.
by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 21, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
are you really good looking? If you aren’t then most woman won’t care, haha.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 21, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Ouch. Apparently I can’t even be average looking and know anything about hockey….
I meant that at 20, I probably wouldn’t have been too happy about letting my boyfriend go to a game with someone I’ve never met.
by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 21, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
it wasn’t meant as an insult or demeaning to you. I was simply pointing out that even if my significant other would kick my ass to go to a game with someone else, she’d probably kick my ass less if that person was significantly worse looking than her. I don’t claim to understand woman, I’m just pointing out my observation in this department.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 21, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I get the “They could play but let’s see if we can close out this series with a depleted roster so they get a long, long rest” vibe here.
I’d like to see Giroux at center rather than Briere. What do you think of:
21-18-13, 48-28-22, 45-36-Laliberte, 14-11-45
Otherwise, I don’t mind 13-18-28, 19-48-22, 14-11-45, 21-36-Laliberte.
You have Asham twice and Hartnell missing from your first one.
Personally, as a JVR fan and supporter, I don’t like putting him with Richie and Carcillo. JVR played well with Richie before, and I would be more open to that at home, but not in NJ.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Hartnell with Powe. Alternatively, Hartnell and JVR could be flipped, but there’s no reason to put Rabbit on the ice at all unless he’s on the top two lines. He’s been awful so far this series, we need to shake the hell out of this baby.
Well, he barely played in Game 1, I thought he played great in Game 2, and well in Game 3. Last night, he was largely absent until a really good shift in the 3rd before taking the penalty.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a huge apologist for JVR (nearly got his jersey over Roo), but he hasn’t looked good to me for a single moment. Passable play at best, when he’s not turning the puck over or putting his head down to try and pull a drag move on an NHL defenseman.
Look, I want him to be good. That’s why I want him on a line with two opportunistic scorers (when Carcillo does score, it is cashing in on opportunities, that is) who backcheck hard.
Right Wing
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
so maybe I missed it, but is either one of them (Carter or Gagne) going to be returning soon? Is this just a way to rest them up for the next series?
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Philadelphia Flyers / Columbus Blue Jackets, 'nuff said.
They are “day-to-day.” That means they could be back soon or never. No one knows (in Queens of the Stone Age voice).
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
good band….
http://www.easports.com/player-hub/360/zsmooth0 - (NHL 10)
Philadelphia Flyers / Columbus Blue Jackets, 'nuff said.
by PhillyPhan85 on Apr 21, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure it ’s a NE Patriots type injury situation.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Apr 21, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Lines
I’d like to see
hartnell-Richards-carcillo
giroux-briere-leino
jvr-powe-laberte
lappy-betts-asham
by flyersfangiroux on Apr 21, 2010 3:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
With the powe line only takeing ozone faceoffs
by flyersfangiroux on Apr 21, 2010 3:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thank goodness we did not call up Riley Cote.
Leino should be fine and apologies for my ignorance, but I really have not been able to follow the Phantoms this year. What kind of forward is Laliberte? Is he going to be a huge offensive liability out there or should he fit in nice with this team? Thanks!
Proudly supporting a Flyers team with "no honor."
46 points in 66 AHL games. He’s an offensive guy, but he won’t be ready to contribute offensively this postseason. In his previous call up, he fit in pretty well (playing with Carter and JVR most of the time), but how well he fits in this time around depends on who he’s playing with and what’s asked of him.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
He was called up earlier this year? Why don’t I remember that?
Proudly supporting a Flyers team with "no honor."
Not sure. I don’t remember him playing with Carter and JVR, but I was there when he scored his first NHL goal. He played 11 games, scored 2 goals.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
2 versions of lines:
Carcillo-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Lappy-Betts-Asham
JVR-Powe-Laliberte
I like Carcillo with Richie and Leino must play on an offensive line. Lappy & Betts are mainstays together.
Carcillo-Richards-Asham
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR – Giroux – Powe
Lappy-Betts-Laliberte
Personally I like sterngth at centre in all lines & I feel that Giroux is soooo much better at Cente than the wing. In this case, Laliberte would not play much at all and I’d spot in (double shift) various forwards throughout the game in his place. Adding Asham on the Richards line may not be a great fit but I think he’s had a very strong series so far.
The first set is obviously more likely but hey the second set is something to talk about….
Shaker
Hate that second set. Can’t put Laliberte on our best defensive line, can’t pretend JVR-Giroux-Powe is a third scoring line, can’t pretend Carbomb-Richards-Asham is a legitimate dangerous scoring line.
Agree entirely
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
1.) I think they should put Leino on the Richards line.
2.) move Briere to center and put Laliberte in his wing spot.
All of the lines are have been effective recently, IMO some of that has to do with continuity. I would leave the other lines alone.
While they are winning making too many changes is not a great idea, but I have been hoping that they would bring up Leino and bench Hartnell. I have been a huge fan of Gagne since his rookie year, but I think all of these injuries and recovery periods have affected his offense. Injuries suck, but as long as they keep winning this might be a great opportunity for Leino to audition for next year.
by McCrimmonMellanbyBrind'AmourUmburger on Apr 21, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Simon could return to action in three weeks. Jeff is out indefinitely.
http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=526463
Well that’s just super.
Anybody eles ready to jumo out of a window or off a building…WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."
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So Laliberte was called up to continue the illusion that the team has three scoring lines. I don’t like that at all, but I’d be surprised if the lines weren’t:
Carcillo – Richards – Giroux
Hartnell – Briere – Leino
JVR – Powe – Laliberte
Asham – Betts – Laliberte
Granted, there are plenty of other combos, but with Gagne and Carter out for awhile, Laliberte will likely get 9 minutes a game. The best thing to come from the surgery news is that it explains why Laliberte is in and Nodl isn’t.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, oops. I meant:
Asham – Betts – Laperriere
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Apr 21, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Leighton to RW?
Is Carter going to get surgery? Did we ever figure out which foot was the problem last night?
It’s the right foot, the opposite of the one injured before. Both players will have surgery on Friday.
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by Travis Hughes on Apr 21, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Despite this news, I’m still strangely calm. Maybe its because I already knew it wasn’t our year, maybe because we were doing well against NJ w/o offensive contributions from Jeff and Simon…. I don’t know. I just want to make it to the next round before going golfing.
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Ouch. Panotch just updated his article to give specifics of the surgeries….
Gagne has a fracture in his right big toe. He will have two screws inserted into it surgically on Friday and should be out at least three weeks. Carter is also scheduled for surgery to have a plate inserted into his right metatarsal. He’ll be on crutches for approximately six weeks.
Go Go Gadget Toe Screws!
Hey DG, any interest in going to the game tomorrow?
Mancrushin' on Geoff since April 20
"Good night. Good hockey."
by KreiderDesigns on Apr 21, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if I can…. Thursdays are normally my day off but I called out sick today due to fatigue, so I’d only be able to go if I’m recovered enough to get up early tomorrow. I know that sounds really lame, but it’s the truth.
by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 21, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions
(If you actually want to discuss going, just email me (using this as my yahoo ID) rather than letting this thread get miles off topic, okay?)
by DragonGirl0583 on Apr 21, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re fucked. They should win one of three games against the Devils, but I’m not sure they can beat the Caps without both of those guys.
Not to mention the Caps will be nearly a month into their annual steroid cycle, which I believe would put them at peak condition.
I agree, it would be tough to outgun Washington’s offense with a healthy roster. Without Gagne and Carter? Almost impossible.
I do hope that I am I wrong.
Thats what I was thinking too. A lot of the Caps forwards have size and speed, and losing Carter means down the middle looks a bit tiny. I was hoping to see Gagne lock Semin down for an entire series to show him that a winger can’t just coast and score highlight reel goals
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Wait, how do we know that one of them isn’t trying to get their wife pregnant? (BTW, do men actually take women’s hormones to help with the pregnancy process? That keeps coming up in MLB suspensions—Manny and now Volquez—is it really that common?)
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
The female hormone is taken when coming off a steroid cycle to help with the adjustment period.
It was explained in great detail back when Manny got suspended, I forget the exact science of it, though.
ESPN is a rip...
I was watching sports center and they did their 3 minute hockey segment with Matthew Barnaby and then asked him which series in the East is the shakiest??? Figures he would cop out and say the Philly series because Gagne and Carter are out so that makes us vulnerable….what a crock of shit! I love these analysts and announcers making “safe” predictions for the playoffs…grow some balls and go out on a limb! I would personally say Boston/Buffalo is more shakey considering the fact that they have played OT in almost every game…plus you got to factor in that til Game 4, Carter and Gagne(who actually never showed up) haven’t provided any type of offense. So really losing them isn’t as big as people think….but it is a quick and easy answer so whatever…..haters!
http://www.easports.com/player-hub/360/zsmooth0 - (NHL 10)
Philadelphia Flyers / Columbus Blue Jackets, 'nuff said.
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