Monday Morning Fly By: Game 1 Win, De Serres Gets Shutout, Multiple Heroes
by Geoff Detweiler on May 17, 2010 10:30 AM EDT
in Morning Fly By
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PrintToday's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Last night's NHL scores... Flyers 6 - Canadiens 0 (PHI leads series 1-0); Blackhawks 2 - Sharks 1 (CHI leads series 1-0)
- Recaps of last night's game: [BSH] [CSNPhilly] [NHL] [DelcoTimes] [Daily News] [Habs Eyes On The Prize]
- James van Riemsdyk gets some much deserved praise: [Daily News]
- A large part of the win came in chasing Jaroslav Halak: [CSNPhilly] [DelcoTimes] [Daily News]
- Michael Leighton will be getting a lot of press, but he's had quiet a start to these playoffs: [Inquirer] [Daily News] [CSNPhilly]
- Ville Leino, another guy who's stepped up these playoffs, was big last night: [Daily News]
- A vicious rumor started yesterday that Jeff Carter could be skating today and playing tomorrow... [CSNPhilly] [Daily News]
- Jacob De Serres stopped 31 shots to get the shutout over Nic Riopel and Moncton. Riopel made 34 saves in the loss. [Memorial Cup]
- De Serres' shutout was the first in Brandon Memorial Cup history. [Luber's Lounge]
- A look at expected shooting percentage for Round 2. A good read. [Behind The Net]
- Ranking the goalies by 50 and 90% true talent ranges. [Puck Prospectus]
- Conference Finals predictions: [Puck Daddy]
- The five most lopsided series according to Fenwick in the last 5 years: [Behind the Net]
- Johan Backlund has multiple options next year, outside the NHL: [euroflyers]
- Cup Winners Rank in Conference for the past 30 years: [Behind The Net]
- Pretty random: Jarri Kurri claims the Flyers asked him to come out of retirement for the 1999 playoffs. [euroflyers]
- Where the Flyers are compared to the Coyotes and Denny's supplier: [Puck Daddy]
- Presenting the 2010 Alternative NHL Awards: [On the Forecheck]
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The Puck Prospectus article on goalie skill levels was interesting. I’m not sure how useful it is as a predictor, since (as the author admitted) it doesn’t take aging into account, but as a start, it seems to have some promise. It also ties back in to DTrain’s article on where goalies come from, that it’s often not worthwhile to trade for a goalie or pay for an expensive free agent.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Dreger says Carter cleared to skate
http://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/14164684215
I am not going to get overly excited this time though so I don’t see another reporter bring me down
Good news for sure but honestly, as long as this team has a lead in the series I would not rush Carter back. As awesome as he is, and he is our best scorer and a good face off guy who can play solid two way hockey, I still do not see a point in rushing a guy back when things seem to be going well. But then again, if this Flyers team does not show up for game 2 and is handed a beat down like what they handed out last night then Carter might just be a guy who can reignite the engines much like Gagne did last round.
Certainly getting guys back can not be a bad thing and I understand the notion of not wanting to mess with chemistry but I refuse to believe that having Carter and Lappy(if he is every ready to return) sitting out when ready to play is better than having Asham/Nodl playing simply because things are clicking. Carter and Lappy are better than Asham and Nodl and it’s not even close.
Go Go Gadget Gagne
What if Broad Street Didn't Fight Back? History HAS been made. 5-7-10
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I see your point but I would try and get him back in for a game or two so he can knock a little rust off before the Stanley Cup(assuming we make it that far) so he doesn’t have to knock it all off that first game against either Chicago or San Jose.
I agree…it would be impossible to expect a guy to be completely ready to go in their first game back, and you certainly can’t simulate game experience in practice.
Go Go Gadget Gagne
What if Broad Street Didn't Fight Back? History HAS been made. 5-7-10
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Crosby slashes more than Downie?! Another reason to hate, I love it!
Mancrushin' on Geoff since April 20
"Good night. Good hockey."
by KreiderDesigns on May 17, 2010 10:46 AM EDT reply actions
Does he? Crosby slashes from time to time but Downie is a dirty player IMO.
Go Go Gadget Gagne
What if Broad Street Didn't Fight Back? History HAS been made. 5-7-10
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I guess it’s just different kinds of dirty, right? Downie is a potentially-dangerous dirty player, Crosby is dirty in much the same way Briere is. There are a lot of categories Briere was tied for the lead in, but the award went to somebody else because they played less games than Briere did.
by DragonGirl0583 on May 17, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with you completely. Crosby and Briere are sloppy dirty and Downie is just dangerous dirty.
Go Go Gadget Gagne
What if Broad Street Didn't Fight Back? History HAS been made. 5-7-10
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I think sometimes briere is just a victim of his size. he’s trying to get leverage against bigger guys and his momentum with the stick just causes lots of high stickings. I’m not positive on the stat I havent checked but that seems to be what I recall off the top of my head as most of his penalties.
by HankMonahan on May 17, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Even if that’s the case, watch Briere clip goalies, or stick guys in the ribs, or slash at their legs. Briere is a victim of his size in a league with an instigator rule. So he defends himself in dirty ways (a lot of time with his stick in pretty bad ways), or maybe he is just a little dirty anyways, or a combination. Either way, it’s much more than high sticks if you watch him.
He is definitely a little dirty regardless. I can almost live with a stick to the face if he is defending himself and has to go high to get at someone, but some of his stuff is ridiculous.
Go Go Gadget Gagne
What if Broad Street Didn't Fight Back? History HAS been made. 5-7-10
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
He’s a little dirty in the way Crosby is. I can deal with that. :P
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
by Mike B on D on May 17, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahaha oh yeah, I have zero problem with it (see below), I have a problem with the instigator rule that has lead to players resorting to that kind of stuff. I mean Chris brings up Gretzky and Mario, but they had guys like Semenko/McSorley and Caufield respectively to protect them. It’s just a different game today. Not saying stick infractions did not occur, but that stars didn’t have to rely on them.
I agree totally. I think getting rid of the instigator rule would lower the vicious hits and head shots as well. Seriously now… would you take runs at a player knowing a guy like McSorely was going to beat you to a pulp? Since the league is so stumped in how to stop things, maybe less is more as far as rules?
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Downie is the dirtiest and I love him for it he gets mad and hates to lose. He is flat out nasty like Bobby Clarke if he can’t catch you he will break your ankles. Crosby is dirty with stick work but I think most of it is behind the play stuff or after the whistles. Then he has the balls to complain, argue then cry about every call he gets. At least Downies goes to box without all the drama. At Downie for a rather small guy will also drop the gloves and stand up and fight unlike you know who.
See I have no issue with getting in guys faces and going after them but trying to hurt people, which Downie has done, on more than one occasion, that I do have an issue with. I agree with you about Crosby, a lot of his stuff is behind the play and after the whistle, which makes his act that much more revolting.
Go Go Gadget Gagne
What if Broad Street Didn't Fight Back? History HAS been made. 5-7-10
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
This city didn’t have much of an issue with Clarkie trying to hurt people. The Russians did, Kharlamov in particular.
The difference I see between Clarke and Downie is that from what I’ve been told and seen in replays, Clarke could reign it in when there was no point to it – he was the dirtiest SOB when it was a 3-2 game, but wouldn’t go after guys when it was 4-1 with 2 minutes left. Downie’s just random and goes after people when there’s no point to it.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Good point. I still like Downie I was sad to see him go but Hartnell, Briere, Downie, is just too many penalties for one team to have and Carle certainly hasn’t disappointed.
He was doing very well in Tampa last I heard. Tocchet (I believe it was him) had him on a short leash. If you can get him to play hockey rather than MMA on ice, he’s got very good hands. Aside from some crossed wiring, he could be a great player.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
by Mike B on D on May 17, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Crosby doesn’t get paid to fight, he gets paid to be on the ice. When he did fight he handled himself. I get your argument here, but seriously, apples to oranges.
And everyone knows he cries, we get it,; but he is playing golf now, so let’s not give him any more attention, he gets enough already.
Doesn’t matter what he gets paid to do. The code of hockey states if you slash, spear, sleuth foot, run the goalie etc.. when you get called out on you dirty antics you can’t go hide behind the refs. You got to throw down and act like a man. You also can’t cry and complain and dive when someone uses those same dirty tactics against you. That is the difference. You can’t have it both ways or all ways in Crosby’s case. Crosby is great talent but if you accept the superstar treatment don’t get involved in the cheap shot bullshit. Skate away like Mario and Gretzky did don’t throw cheap shot slashes and spears into the pile.
Basically don’t start fights you are not willing to finish and don’t going crying when someone decides enough is enough and smacks you in the mouth.
Hence the comparison to Briere…Downie doesn’t make sense here, other than being on the slashing list with Crosby. Briere you can at least argue has some star power, Downie gets paid to be a pest (despite a very good year offesnively this year), Crosby and Briere get paid to put up points but will do some dirty stuff with their stick. Briere and Crosby are apples, Downie is the orange. Briere isn’t expected to answer the bell with a fight, why would you expect Crosby to? Just because you don’t like him?
Briere isn’t dirty with his penalties just stupid. They are all during the play trying to chase down the puck etc. Crosby and Downie both do their stick work behind the play and when the game is out of hand. When is the last time Danny threw a punch after a whistle. He doesn’t.
Last night, for one, but that was standing up for…Leino maybe I forget. Also, watch him, seriously have you ever, I love Danny, but he gets more sticks in people’s midsections behind the play than anyone I’ve seen. Honestly, watch him when the play moves the other way. Also, I find a punch after a whistle less dirty than a stick to the midsection when the play goes the other way.
I’m all for hating on Crobsy, whatever, it’s fine, just gets old. But don’t do it with a blind eye to the players on the Flyers roster. I have defended Briere’s contract on here, and him as a player, I love the guy…but, he is a little dirty, and to say he isn’t means you either aren’t paying attention, or are letting your hatred of Crosby blind you.
Getting this far in the NHL would probably mean you have to be willing to get a little dirty—especially when you are as targeted as Crosby or undersized like Briere.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
Oh I agree. My point is, you can’t really get on an opposing player about it, when your own does the same (or similar) thing. And you certainly can’t compare a superstar to a pest/resident knucklehead. Frankly I have no problem with either player in the “dirty” aspect. This is a different NHL than when the Great One played. You can’t rely on your tough guys to protect players anymore b/c of the rule changes. So sometimes, they have to stick up for themselves in other ways. Some players carry themselves better than others while doing it, which is why I understand the hatred some players breed for themselves; but both in this case do similar things to “protect” themselves.
Agreed and I have no problems with it. Don’t know why we’re talking about Crosby at all since he’s golfing right now.
I will say that when he was interviewed after the Habs ousted them and he said he wasn’t going to watch the rest of the playoffs…wow. Awesome that the “face of the league” has now said on national TV that he will not watch the remainder of the games because he’s bitter. I mean, I appreciate that he’s angry and competitive, but it’s not like he didn’t just win a championship last year or anything.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luuko
RE: Conference seeding….Montreal or Philly are going to be HUGE underdogs in the finals. Another potential “history will be made” moment.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on May 17, 2010 11:05 AM EDT reply actions
travis, did you get your bruins playoff towel?
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on May 17, 2010 11:55 AM EDT reply actions
No, but I shall accept donations.
Visit the BSH Store :: Get us on Twitter :: facebook, too!
Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. Got goaltending? Searching since 1987.
by Travis Hughes on May 17, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
10 bucks on ebay….surprisingly there are only 2 offerings.
we need to get a flyers fan in montreal to send you a towel from there.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on May 17, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Purchased. And I get a Celtics one too!
Visit the BSH Store :: Get us on Twitter :: facebook, too!
Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. Got goaltending? Searching since 1987.
by Travis Hughes on May 17, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, funny that the guy has to ship it to Philadelphia.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on May 17, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
In non-playoff news, Washington signed Backstrom to a new contract
10 years, $67 million, per the National Post
Honor is no substitute for victory.
What does Semin make? With Ovechkin and Backstrom, that’s what, roughly 30% of your cap in 2 players?
Semin’s cap number is $4.6MM. Combined, the three of them should be around $20.84MM, or 37.5% of this year’s cap for 3 players.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I wonder how that compares with other team’s top 3 earners? And how many team’s top 3 earners are all forwards? Not sure what Green makes, so maybe I’m wrong..
Our top three are Briere, Timmo, and Richards in that order, and 6.5, 6.3, and 5.75 respectively adding up to 18.55M. Because of the way Pronger’s contract was worked he only has a 4.921M cap hit.
"Chris Pronger sneaked in the back door...banged it home."
Flyers Television Play-by-Play Man: Jim Jackson
I believe that starts next year, when his extension kicks in. The way I understand it, this year his cap number is 6.25, because it’s the last year of his previous contract.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Using this year's cap numbers (and Green makes more than Semin, so WAS still isn't three forwards highest)
ANA $17.4
ATL $15.9
BOS $17.5
BUF $18.7
CAR $16.1
CGY $19.5
CHI $18.0
CLB $13.9
COL $15.3
DAL $18.5
DET $20.2
EDM $15.2
FLA $15.7
LAK $17.1
MIN $15.1
MTL $19.1
NAS $13.5
NJD $16.3
NYI $12.4
NYR $21.4
OTT $16.9
PHI $19.1
PHX $15.3
PIT $22.4
SJS $21.4
STL $15.0
TBL $17.5
TOR $14.2
VAN $19.0
WAS $19.4
The average is $17.2 million for the top three players on a team. The low is the Islanders, at $12.35 million, and the high is Pittsburgh at $22.4 million. The teams paying three forwards the most money (some may have ties between the third forward and another player): Columbus, Los Angeles, Nashville, Ottawa, and Tampa.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Did we figure out the deal with Riopel? I assume if you’re still reporting on him, there’s no definitive word on him essentially being a UFA.
I’m getting about this close to paying to download the bloody AHL CBA, so I would finally have all the rules available to dig through and figure all this stuff out. I just haven’t broken down and been willing to pay the 10 bucks.
by DragonGirl0583 on May 17, 2010 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
This was McManus’ response when someone suggested the Flyers still owned his rights:
I was going by John Paddock’s word when he said Riopel is not under contract for next year. I took that to mean anyone could sign him.
I’m pretty sure McManus got it wrong by saying Riopel is a UFA. Just because he’s not under contract doesn’t mean anything: De Serres isn’t under contract either. I believe Riopel is still Flyers property.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on May 17, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
We have his rights, just no contract in place. Think about it, JVR was never under contract when in college or he would have been ineligible.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on May 17, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on May 17, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
But we know what happens at the expiration of an entry-level NHL contract (ie when you’re an RFA and when you’re a UFA), because that’s written in the NHL CBA. Because Riopel only ever had an AHL contract, I don’t know if the expiration rules are the same. We owned JVR’s rights in college when he had never had a contract yet; I don’t know what happens to the rights to Riopel since we’ve already signed him to something once and that first contract is expiring.
by DragonGirl0583 on May 17, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the best I could come up with from the CBA:
50.9(g)(iii):
“For a Player on an AHL contract with a Minor League Salary and compensation that could be earned in excess of the applicable amount set forth above in this Section 50.9(g), who signs an NHL SPC for the same season with the AHL team’s NHL affiliated Club, the Player must first clear the new Re-Entry Waiver procedure…”
Says nothing about the situation, except that the Flyers couldn’t call him up if his minor league salary could have been more than $105,000. All I’ve been able to find is that he signed “a standard AHL contract.”
Something else: He was drafted at age 20, so according to Section 8.6(a)(i), the Flyers have
“exclusive right of negotiation for the services of each Player selected and registered as against all other Clubs up to and including June 1 of the next calender year following the date of his selection.”
Plus, the following section says if the team offers an SPC by that date,
“the Club shall retain the exclusive right of negotiation for the services of such Player up to and including the second June 1 following the date of his selection.”
Based on that, I think the Flyers retain his rights until June 1st, but even that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. GMs need to offer him a contract while the NHL season is still going on? Either way, my late-night research should at least make you rest easy for another 2 weeks.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on May 18, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
But an AHL contract is not an NHL SPC. Remember, anyone who has any form of NHL SPC is on the 50 man contract list; Riopel never was. Riopel signed an AHL SPC.
With that, Riopel is not covered in any way by the NHL CBA, he’s covered by the AHL CBA. I have no idea how you retain rights if they’ve signed an AHL SPC, and whether they become an RFA, UFA, etc when that expires. I’m not paying to download that CBA unless I hear it’s renewed, because the current one expires in August.
by DragonGirl0583 on May 18, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I understand all of that. The first block quote was just saying that the Flyers couldn’t call him up. The second and third block quotes dealt with negotiating rights after being drafted. I’m not sure if signing an AHL contract cancels those clauses out, but the Flyers have his exclusive rights until June 1st.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on May 19, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
“Briere has one of the top points-per-game numbers in Flyers history. He is producing 1.03 points per game in the playoffs, third all-time behind Ken Linseman (1.29) and Eric Lindros (1.14).”
from ESPN
Honor is no substitute for victory.
The Rat has the highest points-per-game rating for the Flyers in the playoffs, huh? Wow.
Dude was Steve Downie: The Prequel.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
So we have “The Rat”, “Jelly Head” and “The Sugar Plum Fairy”
that’s quite a lineup.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on May 17, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Why won’t the url post. I put it on Youtube like someone suggested and it still won’t show up here.
"All hail the Flyers" Jim Jackson.
by darkside3744 on May 17, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I click on the part that says link then it asks for the URL and I put it in there and hit submit.
"All hail the Flyers" Jim Jackson.
by darkside3744 on May 17, 2010 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Just copy-paste the link into the body of the text is easiest
The alternative puts the link in arrows, but has this > < / a >. If you type the name of the link between >< it will give the link a name
eg broadstreethockey
Hope that makes sense, it barely makes sense to me
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
Won’t let me copy-paste it into the body. When I post it comes up as nothing.
"All hail the Flyers" Jim Jackson.
by darkside3744 on May 17, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
You can’t copy-paste?
Are you sure you’re copying it right then?
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2010/5/17/1475309/monday-morning-fly-by-game-1-win#comments
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
You’ve gotta give it text for the link, I’ll try to make it one step easier than Todd did… Type something, say “Video”. Highlight whatever you typed first, then click the link button, and it’ll put the link on the word “Video”. There has to be something in there for us to click on.
by DragonGirl0583 on May 17, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Please work
<a href="http://" >Game 7 final seconds in the Wachovia center.
"All hail the Flyers" Jim Jackson.
try two
<a href="http://" >Video
"All hail the Flyers" Jim Jackson.
by darkside3744 on May 17, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
< a href= “http:// ”http://www.1234.com" target="_blank">www.1234.com " target="new"> YOUR LINK NAME HERE
It should look like this without the spaces. As DG said, you type the name you want the link called, then hit the LINK button, should look like this does.
Then “Preview” and make sure it looks right; i.e. Just the name of your link in BOLD
by JerseyDriver on May 17, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol, well, that didn’t work right Broad St Hockey
Was done by typing “Broad Street Hockey after new”> HERE < slash a >
And when I hit LINK BUTTON I typed www.broadstreethockey.com for the site name, and checked “open in new window”
by JerseyDriver on May 17, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m going to have to try this tomorrow cause I’m tired and nothing seems to be working.
"All hail the Flyers" Jim Jackson.
by darkside3744 on May 17, 2010 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the best I can do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuSGdmEpk-s
"All hail the Flyers" Jim Jackson.
That was wonderful! :) I would have been in that crowd if I were still in the States.
It was amazing to see the enthusiasm from those witnessing history.
Thank you for sharing this! :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on May 18, 2010 7:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey, what was the name of that Gazette writer that called the Flyers “nazi’s”? I just read an article on philly.com about a Gazette writer getting his car trashed at Game 1.
It wasn’t the guy who wrote that article on philly.com.
by DragonGirl0583 on May 18, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
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