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Around SBN: How The Kings Beat The Coyotes: Lather, Rinse, Repeat

ECSF Game 2: Time on Ice Numbers

More of this would have been good.  (Photo by Elsa/Getty Images)

The Flyers find themselves down two games to none and there are plenty of reasons for that.  Each game had different reasons for the Flyers coming up short, but Game 2 was interesting in that all five goals were scored at even strength.

In a growing trend, the previous game's goats rebounded, but those who had a bad game last night are some familiar names.  Overall, the Flyers as a team improved.

The Bruins outshot the Flyers 27-26, a lot more in line with what everyone expected this series to be.  At 5-on-5, the Flyers outshot the Bruins 20-18, which is a good sign, but giving up 3 even-strength goals is a problem.

Jump for the zone-start bullets and Corsi table.

Star-divide

For the full zone-start information, click here.

  • The Flyers had 14 offensive zone faceoffs and 13 defensive zone faceoffs, 5 of which came after an icing.
  • Darroll Powe and Matt Carle led the team with 3 icings, with Hartnell, van Riemsdyk, Briere, and Parent each having 2.
  • For the non-icing defensive zone starts, Darroll Powe and Dan Carcillo led the team with 4 each.
  • Peter Laviolette only had 8 opportunities to put people out for a defensive zone draw, and he clearly chose not to use Ville Leino (0), Arron Asham (1), Andreas Nodl (1), Danny Briere (1), and Claude Giroux (1) for those.  The only two that really surprise me on that list are Nodl (Betts' and Powe's winger) and Giroux (60% on faceoffs for the game).
  • Naturally, the three guys with the most offensive zone draws come from the previous list, as Briere (9), Leino (8), and Giroux (8) led the way there.

For the full Corsi and Fenwick information, click here.

Player Goals Saved Shots Missed Shots Fenwick Blocked Shots Corsi
Krajicek 0 2 3 7 1 2 -7 0 1 -8
Coburn 0 1 5 5 2 3 -2 5 7 -4
Betts 0 1 4 3 1 0 1 0 4 -3
Carcillo 0 2 5 7 0 3 -7 2 3 -8
Nodl 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 3 -3
Richards 1 1 5 2 0 1 2 5 3 4
Hartnell 1 2 6 6 0 2 -3 3 6 -6
Pronger 2 0 10 3 0 1 8 3 2 9
van Riemsdyk 0 1 3 3 2 3 -2 2 0 0
Leino 2 0 7 4 1 1 5 4 1 8
Carle 1 0 12 2 0 1 10 5 6 9
Giroux 0 0 10 5 0 2 3 2 3 2
Boucher 2 3 18 15 3 6 -1 9 10 -2
Powe 0 1 3 5 1 3 -5 1 3 -7
Ross 0 0 1 3 1 0 -1 3 0 2
Timonen 1 1 3 6 2 3 -4 4 4 -4
Asham 0 1 4 1 1 2 1 1 1 1
Briere 2 0 6 5 1 1 3 4 2 5
Parent 0 2 3 7 1 2 -7 1 1 -7

Just like last time, the three best performers are in bold while the three worst are in italics. 

Shots on Goal

As mentioned above, the Flyers outshot the Bruins 20-18 at 5-on-5, which is promising. And there were good signs in the form of Danny Briere and Ville Leino having a markedly better game.  Both finished plus-2, and Leino outshot the Bruins 9-4.  The best performers last night, however, were Matt Carle and Chris Pronger.  Neither allowed an even-strength goal against, and Carle outshot the Bruins 13-2 while Pronger finished 12-3.  Having the first pairing only give up 2 shots on goal while playing over 17 minutes is fantastic.

Most importantly, though, were Ryan Parent, Lukas Krajicek, and Dan Carcillo ending up in the dreaded italics (seriously need some better graphics) with the worst Corsis, which should come as no surprise since all three finished a minus-2 on the night.  On top of that, half of all Bruins shots on goal at even-strength came when they were on the ice.  Each of those three allowed 9 Bruins shots on net, yet none of them played even 11:30 at 5-on-5.  Not good, gentlemen.  Hopefully returning to the Wachovia Center gets them a more favorable matchup.

Fenwick (SOG + Missed Shots)

The Flyers again gave up more missed shots, but this time it only resulted in a minus-1 (24-23) Fenwick.  Giving up 6 missed shots isn't bad, especially since it seems as if Jeff Carter misses the net six times a game by himself.  The same three players should be commended - Carle, Pronger, Leino - for their excellent Fenwick scores, just as the same three - Krajicek, Parent, Carcillo - are guilty. 

The redeeming stat for Carcillo is his zone starts.  He had 5 defensive zone draws (4 non-icing) and only 1 offensive zone start (4).  Those are tough minutes, and while others had similar defensive numbers, he wasn't given a chance to start in the offensive zone and counteract his poor positioning.  Carcillo wasn't good, but he wasn't given much of an opportunity.  Krajicek (-2) and Parent (-1) on the other hand, have no excuse.

Corsi (Fenwick + Blocked Shots)

The Flyers lost the Corsi battle 34-32, but they only blocked one more shot than the Bruins at even-strength, so the Flyers got more shots through to the net, but directed fewer shots.  Either way, it was a pretty evenly matched game in terms of shots.

Again, there really isn't much to say about Corsi that wasn't already addressed in the two previous paragraphs, except to say that Andreas Nodl and Jared Ross were vastly underused - for good or bad, and I think bad - and their stats are thus minimal.

Conclusion

It's becoming common, but every game there seems to be a handful of players who had superb games and a handful of players who had terrible games.  Game 2 was no exception and it was Krajicek and Parent's turn.  Again, not too surprising.

Honestly though, you have to wonder why Powe (-7) and Hartnell (-6) got the minutes they did.  Powe played really tough minutes (7-3 defensive to offensive zone draws), then added over 5 minutes of PK time.  I wonder how tired he was by the end of the game, and if Andreas Nodl was able to stay awake.  Powe played well last night, but his ice time needs to be better distributed.

Hartnell - with yet another bad game - had some tough minutes (5-2 defensive to offensive), especially since 2 of those defensive draws were caused by icings, but his play didn't warrant the ice time he got either.  Asham could have easily taken some of his minutes, and maybe the results would have been better.  Then again, Parent and Krajicek could have played better, or the power play could have converted, or... you get the point.

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Calling Dr. ??

Don’t know if this has been covered, been busy last 2 days. But according to Savard, Carcillo is a dentist. “Dr. Carcillo” who would have thought.

by Crosby sucks on May 4, 2010 8:47 PM EDT reply actions  

This is all over other topic threads. Old news.

Mancrushin' on Geoff since April 20
"Good night. Good hockey."

by KreiderDesigns on May 4, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Bruins effectively having 3 half decent scoring lines means that Lavvy can’t hide Parent and Krajicek against a non threatening 3/4th line like the Devils had.

New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan

by ToddtheFox on May 4, 2010 9:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah. Krajicek got stuck playing against Andrew Ference (good matchup), Marc Savard (bad matchup), Michael Ryder (eh), Sobotka (eh), Lucic (bad matchup)…

Game 3 will be interesting.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on May 4, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Krejci, Bergeron and Savard are pretty decent down the middle. They don’t have the greatest wingers I guess is the only advantage, outside of Recchi and Lucic.
More defensive responsibility for the center playing with that pairing?
 
I haven’t watched much of the games, are the forwards forechecking at all because the Boston defense looks a bit shaky under pressure

New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan

by ToddtheFox on May 5, 2010 3:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Miroslav Satan seems to be scoring a bunch, I’d put him as “not bad for an old man” of a winger.

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on May 5, 2010 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry I’ll give you Satan as well.

New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan

by ToddtheFox on May 5, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

They’re forechecking pretty well, but I’m not ready to say their forecheckers are causing the Flyers turnovers.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on May 5, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

they aren’t. In general, these teams are both real even. There have been stretches of Bruins domination and stretches of Flyers domination. The goals for the most part have been average and neither goalie has been spectacular. In fact, I felt both games could have gone either way. There also hasn’t been incredible shifts of momentum, like for example, i might have thought the Briere tying goal in game 1 would have carried over to the OT period or the Briere tying goal in game 2 in the dying seconds of the second, would translate into something to start period 3, but it didn’t.

Obviously, I think the Flyers can win games 3 and 4 or they could lose them and we could get swept, but it’s not going to be because Boston is significantly better than us, they’ll just catch more breaks.

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on May 5, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I agree with that.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on May 5, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

it’s actually kind of frusturating, because with NJ or even WSH, you knew that if you could shut down Ilya/AO and maybe the second line, that you would win. Here, you just have to play balanced hockey and hope you get more breaks than the other guys because nobody in Boston is really lighting it up except for maybe Satan…

Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com

by HockeyOutsiders on May 5, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is why I didn’t want to play the Bruins. Ever since they needed to make a push for the playoffs, it seemed like they started to get timely scoring, which had been their main weakness up until that point. They are a frustrating team that knows how to play in close games, that works hard, and that is well coached.

by DLJr on May 5, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also just found this…

Puck Prospectus: BOS vs PHI by the numbers

I’m not 100% on GVT but its still a good read, maybe would have been better a week ago though.

It gets really boring on here at night. Sigh

New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan

by ToddtheFox on May 5, 2010 6:17 AM EDT reply actions  

I’ve soured on GVT.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on May 5, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

But…why?

I don’t really know what it means I just like looking at the numbers and seeing that the Flyers are better

New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan

by ToddtheFox on May 5, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because it under-values defensive contributions, mostly due to the fact that it takes team defense and spreads it out evenly based on ice time. So guys like Pronger who allow under 2 goals against per 60 minutes of ice time don’t get credit for that, but instead have the team goals against per 60 minutes (2.4) allocated to them based on ice time.

Basically, it’s good at calculating forwards contributions, but it’s not able to accurately reflect role-players contributions. Just look at Ian Laperriere’s GVT for the year: 1.8 Most of that is due to his -1.0 OGVT, and his DGVT is decent, but Danny Syvret had a GVT of 1.2 for the year. In nearly a quarter as many games. Really?

Lastly, Claude Giroux (1.7), Scott Hartnell (1.7), Dan Carcillo (1.7), Darroll Powe (1.7), and James van Riemsdyk (1.6) have virtually identical DGVTs. Did they all contribute the same on defense? No.

Oh, and having Randy Jones be more valuable per game to his team than Alexander Frolov, Rob Scuderi, and Matt Greene tends to make me think the stat is flawed.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on May 5, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

To expound on the DGVT scores:

Compare these two players:

Carcillo: 835 ESTOI, 1.73 ESGAON/60, 1.7 DGVT
JVR: 899 ESTOI, 2.43 ESGAON/60, 1.6 DGVT

Didn’t Carcillo contribute more defensively than JVR? But they’re only ~0.1 off in GVT. Or:

Giroux: 1063 ESTOI, 2.54 ESGAON/60, 1.7 DGVT
Hartnell: 1029 ESTOI, 2.62 ESGAON/60, 1.7 DGVT

Giroux also had 74 minutes of PKTOI to Hartnell’s 28. Did they contribute the same defensively? No. Giroux was better, but not in GVT’s eyes.

But really, the argument shouldn’t even be that convoluted: Just look at total GVT and see that Lappy is at 1.8 through 82 games, and Syvret is at 1.2 in 21 games. Did Syvret really contribute two-thirds as much as Lappy? Or, even better, did Syvret really contribute two-thirds as much as Lappy did in a QUARTER of the amount of time? I mean, Syvret is an offensive dynamo and a Norris Trophy candidate, but still.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on May 5, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Simply confirming Leino’s been a beast. How Hartnell gets as much time is simply ludicrous. I’m sure if we survive until game 5 and Gagne makes his possible return… Hartnell will stay and Leino will sit….

Please Peter. Pick some lines and stick with them, tonight. The rotating circus last game was impossible to watch and your team was obviously confused.

by Dinky on May 5, 2010 10:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Well, Leino was atrocious in Game 1 (possibly as a result of Briere), but I tend to agree with you.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on May 5, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps the thought is that at any point Hartnell will start playing to what he is capable of . I say this without any statistical comparsion to his output last year (other than scoring which is obvious) so if I am wrong whip me gently please.

by j reed on May 5, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re right to say that’s the hope.

I don’t see them benching Hartnell (or JVR) at all. If Gagne comes in, Ross likely comes out. Whether they deserve the ice time their getting is another matter, but it’s a pretty good indication of who the coach would dress. Yeah, Ross got more ice time than Nodl in Game 2, but one of those two would be scratched and not the guy who’s averaged 15 and a half minutes of ice time in the playoffs.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on May 5, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

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