Thursday Afternoon Fly By: The End of an Amazing Season
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 10, 2010 12:41 PM EDT
in Morning Fly By
61 comments
Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Recaps: [BSH] [Second City Hockey] [CSNPhilly] [DelcoTimes] [Daily News] [The700level] [Puck Daddy]
- And man was that a weird way to go out: [The700level]
- Scoring chances from the game: [The Copper & Blue]
- But watch this shift from last night again. Scott Hartnell knocks down Duncan Keith, Jonathan Toews, and Brent Seabrook in order. Without falling down himself! [NHL.com]
- Danny Briere was, quite simply, a stud in the playoffs. [DelcoTimes]
- Paired with Ville Leino, that "second" line for the Flyers might need to be promoted: [CSNPhilly]
- What hurt the Flyers in Game 6 was a common theme: slow starts. [DelcoTimes]
- The Flyers made the Blackhawks earn it though: [Inquirer]
- And don't forget how improbable the run was to get there: [CSNPhilly]
- Ville Leino and Kimmo Timonen post-game quotes: [EuroFlyers]
- Marian Hossa talks jinx: [Puck Daddy]
- Something most people don't want to hear right now, but SanFilippo rightfully says it: This team still needs changes: [DelcoTimes]
- Jeremy Roenick was moved to tears over never having won a Cup: [Puck Daddy]
- Rob Blake retired from the NHL: [Fear the Fin]
- The other 14 teams who made it to the playoffs but have since passed away: [From the Rink]
- Explaining how the Northwest Division really isn't any better than the Southeast: [Behind the Net]
- How will NHL 11 be even more realistic than previos games? [From The Rink]
- Corsi numbers outside of the division with the score tied since the lockout: [Behind the Net]
- A fake Snoop Dogg/Chris Pronger video. Pretty funny: [Hockey or Die]
- Another fantastic piece from C&B looking at draft strategies and the "Best Available Player": [The Copper & Blue]
- Lastly, now that the hockey season is over, what is there to do? [Down Goes Brown]
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I’m sorry this took so long getting up, I really just felt like ass.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 10, 2010 12:42 PM EDT reply actions
wanted to come by last night and tell you guys how much respect and admiration I have for you team. Just didn’t seem the right time though.
In any regard, it was an extreme pleasure getting to know your guys better. What a bunch of studs. Briere, Hartnell, Leino (what a future!), Pronger, Richards and on down the line. Total stud team. Deep, fun to watch and tough!
The Leighton interview almost drove me to tears – go easy on that guy. He was great for you in the big scheme of things.
Unfortunately for all of us, we must wait some months before we have hockey again.
Hey, congrats on winning! You guys absolutely deserved the victory in this series. No hard feelings from me. You guys have a bunch of studs as well: Keith, Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp (I am glad he was able to find success), Seabrook, etc. Very fast team that plays exciting hockey that is fun to watch!
Proudly supporting a Flyers team with "no honor."
Cant think of a place to put this but
Idea for a Hartnell tee:
KD, draw an Image of Hartnell face-washing a guy, then underneath the image, have the words Face-wash (or face palm, whatever you like better). like the internet pictures that are usually so funny.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
I am not usually critical of AnthonySF but I think his piece is totally of base here.
this could have been the Flyers’ one and only shot for a few years.He basically implied that the Flyers window with this team has closed. Unlike the 2004 team I don’t think so at all about this team. Our core is young Richards, Carter and have yet to hit their prime. Giroux and JVR are on the upswing of very promising careers. Danny B and Gagne are barely over 30. Kimmo and Pronger are getting old but many D-Men are very successful past 35. We need to make changes yes but we have cap room to add the few pieces we need. We have a two year window here they way our cap is positioned and should go all in for those two years.
I've heard this before on NHL network too
saying that the characteristics of the players will grow tired of Lavy soon. And you can’t blame them, because they did the same thing with Hitch. I think Richie and carter matured and will succeed in the future, but its a fair argument.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Well
I can actually see where he’s coming from and I sort of share his POV. I really hope it doesn’t turn out to be the case, but it is difficult to make it this far.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I’m not sure. The window isn’t closed but it could be closing. We have a great core that has lots of room to get better (Giroux becoming the stud we know he will become, Leino showing why he was so highly thought of, Richards and Carter going into their prime, Hartnell and Briere returning to form, Gagne getting healthy, JVR developing into his potential) but we still have one giant, giant problem and that is the tagline for this site. We are still searching for the goalie that can take us over the top. I respect what leights and boosh did for us but it’s obvious that they’re not the answer.
by historywillbemade on Jun 10, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d say we have at least one more year. Our best line in the playoffs is signed, along with our top 3 Dmen, our captain, our leading goalscorer, our shutdown 4th line, and a Man Who Eats Grilled Cheese. Even if: a) Gagne fades (he mostly likely will), b) JVR’s development continues to be arduously long (it definitely will), c) Lavvy’s effect on the players dulls (unless he tones it down in the regular season, it will), and d) we need some clarity in net; the good news is we have a system that works with these players going forward (we think) and enough of the people getting pay raises have another year under contract.
because it’s true.
You don’t often get to play the worst playoff qualifying offense in the playoffs, nevermind the 3 lowest qualifying offenses in the playoffs in the same year.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 10, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
You can’t describe this feeling. We didn’t reach our dream, so we can’t really jump in the air. We’ve built this for ten months, and when it hits a wall like this, you can’t describe how it feels. It will be tough to get over this. It’s going to take a long time for sure. It’s going to be in my head for weeks.
I’m here only to win the Stanley Cup and everything else is just a sidenote.
You never know if you get to the finals again. I don’t have many years left. I’ve played so many years without getting this far. Time will tell, you never know.
Kimmo’s words, my sentiments.
C&B
Great job they do over there. Surprised by their Carter praise and interesting to read that Campbell made a great defensive play on Carter’s chance with a minute and a half to play.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 10, 2010 3:03 PM EDT reply actions
apparently they like taking shots rather than burying shots. Sure carter takes tons of shots and can score tons of goals but all to often does he misses his chances.
by historywillbemade on Jun 10, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
So
what do you guys think about Leighton? Carter?
"But yeah…like CC…I harbour no ill will." - VancityDan
by Chuckles Canuckles on Jun 10, 2010 3:13 PM EDT reply actions
While I appreciate all that Leights gave to the team, I know he isn’t the long term solution and let in some soft goals. He is nothing more than a backup and should not be signed as a starter. I don’t want to trade Carter but he really didn’t help the team and if it takes trading carter to get the pieces we need to win the cup then we should trade Carter
by historywillbemade on Jun 10, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
hope we don't trade Carter in the offseason...
Yes, Briere Leino and Hartnell were great in the playoffs, but I worried that they’ll cool down during the regular season again. If so, we’re going to need Carter as a big goal scorer, which I’m pretty confident he’ll return to. If Carter gets traded, I doubt it will be in the offseason. We need to see how this team preforms once we get back to regular season hockey. If they continue to play like they did the playoffs, then I think we can say bye to Carter. But right now, trading him would be a risky move because we don’t know if the Briere/Hartnell/Leino magic will continue.
"Win today, and we walk together forever"
I almost forgot!
Did anybody else hear Doc Emrick last night near the end of the broadcast?
“Two words, no, three words: ‘The beards come off.’”
Blackhawks Cap
just read on twitter that Toews winning the Conn Smythe is going to cost the Hawks 1.3MM in bonus money against the cap next year.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 10, 2010 3:46 PM EDT reply actions
Wow. Homer looks cap-competent compared to those guys.
Also, does anyone know if Johnsson gets his name on the Cup? Played for Chicago in 8 regular season games after being acquired at the trade deadline, then he got a concussion.
Nope
I believe the standard is 40 games with the team or an appearance in the Finals.
I think Chicago can petition the NHL to get his name added though, it’s probably got to be approved by some board somewhere b/c the team only gets an allotted amount of names.
Mancrushin' on Geoff since April 20
"Good night. Good hockey."
by KreiderDesigns on Jun 10, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
the cap is going to kill them. They have 14 players signed and are already over. The still have guys like Niemi, Sharp, Buff, etc who need to get resigned or get raises. Flyers should offer RFA Niemi an offer sheet. I’d give up a pick for him.
by historywillbemade on Jun 10, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i can’t wait for them to assign Campbell to the minors. If we think the Briere contract is hard to move…wait until they are trying to deal him.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 10, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
The hawks basically have no leverage in the offseason.
by historywillbemade on Jun 10, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve heard rumors that Sopel could be in the minors too.
At $2.33 mill cap hit, I can’t help but think Garrett Klotz + 5th Round pick gets him in orange and black. The ’Hawks are that desperate.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 10, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I should say, even then the Flyers should spend that money elsewhere.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 10, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t he have to go through waivers to get there though? He would be a steal at half-price
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
Oh yeah. So if he just gets sent down, someone could claim him. I’m willing to bet on that happening.
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
Sent down and recalled.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 10, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
If he goes into waivers a team could claim him for full price, but if he gets brought back through re-entry waivers then a team could claim him for half his salary. Right?
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
A lot of teams are going through cap hell
I can imagine this happening to us in the future too. I hope Homer’s taking notes because I think it is possible to build a sustainable team in the cap era.
Well if you can do it on Eastside Hockey Manager….it must work!
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 10, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The Hawks Cap Hell is a lot worse than anyone else though:
With Toews’ bonus counting against next year’s cap, they are now $98k OVER the cap for 2010-11 with only 14 players under contract. They have Niemi, Hjalmarsson, and Ladd as RFAs.
They have to sign at least 6, likely 8, players while doing it for NEGATIVE $98,000. Players are going to get moved, and it won’t be easy.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 10, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
The Campbell and Huet deals eat up over 12 million from their cap. I think that’s at the root of why they are so deep in the mess right now.
Obviously the only way they sign 6-8 players for negative is by getting rid of costly assets. Even if they sign them at league minimum that will cost them 3 million at least. Getting rid of small guys is counter-intuitive, as you are trying to fill the team. So you’ll have to move some of the bigger contracts to make sapce.
The guys they’ve got under contract that are sufficiently cap costly to move that are not named Kane/Toews/Keith are: Hossa, Sharp, Bufflin (why doesn’t he just spell it that way?), Seabrook and Sopel. Bufflin and Sopel only hit 3 and 2.3 on the cap respectively, so if either of them are moved then that doesn’t solve the problem. I could imagine teams being way before trading for Hossa’s crazy long contract. So to me this means that Sharp/Seabrook are coming off Chicago’s books soon. Sharp has a cap hit of 3.9 million signed through to 11/12 after which he goes UFA.
And everyone says the cap will go up 2 million (which would help Chicago greatly), but as MarioD pointed out, it would take a major concession from the players for this to happen. Part of me sort of wants it to stay the same for one season just for the enjoyment value…and then rise by 4 million next season when we are re-signing Giroux and Leino.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 10, 2010 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
err…add Versteeg and Bolland to that list who are likely to be leaving. Well, they are definitely more likely to be leaving than Sharp and Seabrook.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 10, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
So basically…. the Hawks are fucked with or without the cap being raised.
Schadenfreude is delicious.
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09
twitter: @princessblueezy
I dunno maybe we should ask Pens and Hawks fans if it was worth tanking for half a decade to build a contender. Would it be better than the almost-but-not-quite schtick that we have dealt with in Philly for 30 of the last 35 years?
by historywillbemade on Jun 11, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Well… is ten years of pain worth one cup?
I’m on the fence of thinking yes. But I like having a team that competes and front office who want to win BAMN.
Damnit, Homer, just get a fucking good young goalie to build around!
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09
twitter: @princessblueezy
This^
A lot of people say that they would trade 10 years of losing for one championship, but then as soon as the ticker tape and champagne bottles are cleared away and the reality of the new crappy seasons set in, the complaints come out in full force.
Personally, I don’t think it’s worth it. Suffering for 10 straight years and having absolutely no shot at all to win it versus being good enough every year to contend. A lot of things have to break your way in order for you to win a ‘ship and you do really have to be “in it to win it.” I’d rather be competitive than be eliminated by January.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
This ^ and the one above ^^
I’m pretty proud of the way we compete without the tanking and the drafted superstars.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 11, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
So am I
Building through free agency is difficult, especially in the new world of the salary cap. The Flyers refuse to suck in order to get high draft picks for years on end, and I appreciate that as a fan. Some people would rather trade places with the Pens, but I’m sure the threat of having your favorite team moved to Kansas City because no one’s going to games anymore would not sit well with some. Extraordinary measures had to be taken to save that franchise. I never want to see that happen to the Flyers.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I think Homer's trading has helped a lot
In the past we had the benefit of being a big market team with a devoted fanbase that could afford to keep their prospects. But in the salary cap era Homer has really pulled off a few swindles that have kept us in the thick of things. How many teams can say they bounced back from bottom of the league to conference finals in one season? How many teams can say their only no. 1 pick in history was the year after they won the cup finals because they traded for it (Mel Bridgman, 1975 draft)? The Flyers have been amazingly successful over their entire existence. Really all that is missing are those lost cups.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 11, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely agree.
Well said.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 12, 2010 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions
we have lost 6 in the finals the last 6 times we’ve been there, can you imagine if we actually won some of those but then again every loss w/ the exception of this one was vs a dynasty. I think I’d rather have a constant contender than tank. The Flyers have shown that they can build through the draft without being tanking (Richards, Carter, Giroux). This team is built in a lot of different ways: draft, free agency (Briere) and most definitely trades (Coburn, Carle, Leino, Pronger, Hartnell, Kimmo)
by historywillbemade on Jun 12, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
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Atlantic Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
New Jersey
|
82 | 48 | 27 | 7 | 103 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
82 | 47 | 28 | 7 | 101 |
|
Philadelphia
|
82 | 41 | 35 | 6 | 88 |
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New York Rangers
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82 | 38 | 33 | 11 | 87 |
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New York Islanders
|
82 | 34 | 37 | 11 | 79 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
Flyers Schedule
Next 5 Games
|
New Jersey
|
Tue 09/21 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Toronto
|
Thu 09/23 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Toronto
|
Fri 09/24 | 7:00 PM EDT |
|
@
Minnesota
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Sat 09/25 | 8:00 PM EDT |
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@
New Jersey
|
Tue 09/28 | 7:00 PM EDT |
Last 5 Games
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Chicago
|
Wed 06/09 | OT - L 3 - 4 |
|
@
Chicago
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Sun 06/06 | L 4 - 7 |
|
Chicago
|
Fri 06/04 | W 5 - 3 |
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Chicago
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Wed 06/02 | OT - W 4 - 3 |
|
@
Chicago
|
Mon 05/31 | L 1 - 2 |
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