Dan Hamhuis From a Nashville Perspective
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 19, 2010 6:35 PM EDT
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PrintBack at the trading deadline, Chris Burton from On the Forecheck offered to swap scouting reports with us on Dan Hamhuis and Ryan Parent if a trade went down. We had to wait three months, but the trade finally went down.
With that, Chris and I swapped words on the now departed players. Both of us have soft spots for the newest ex-member of our beloved clubs, so you'll have to excuse the nature of the posts. Yes, I'm still a Ryan Parent fan.
Chris posted my words on Parent, found here. But below is his take on Hamhuis.
First, take a look at the newest Flyer:
And here's Chris' take:
In Dan Hamhuis, the Philadelphia Flyers have acquired a player who does just about everything well, but nothing great (well, except for that hip check…). ‘Hammer’ is the perfect example of team player. He’ll adapt to whatever situation he’s placed in – whether it be the power play, penalty kill, or minute cruncher.
Perhaps the best way to describe his playing style is that of a combination between Predators Ryan Suter and Shea Weber. Hamhuis is lighter and less physical than Weber, but a better skater and passer. On the other hand, he’s a better hitter than Suter. Obviously, he’s not in the same category as the Predators’ defensive Olympians, and this comes back to being good at everything, but excelling at little.
His greatest strengths lie in the ability to break a stifling forecheck with his puck movement, or shut down an opposing team’s top player as he did many times with Nashville (Barry Trotz typically played Dan in the toughest spots, leaving Suter and Weber to carry the offensive load). Hamhuis’ weaknesses are in the incredibly frustrating mental lapse, such as a horrible defensive zone turnover or failure to communicate with his defensive partner, which was a common occurrence with Kevin Klein in 2009-10.
At his best, Dan Hamhuis is a top pairing defenseman with the ability to play 23:00 or more a night and in special teams situations. At worst, he’s a solid 2nd pair player prone to mental lapses. What you usually get is somewhere in between. Either way, the trade looks on the surface to be a Philadelphia win. Dan Hamhuis was/is the most coveted defenseman on the market in 2010, and with good reason.
A bona-fide #2 or #3 defenseman? He'll fit right in. Now it's just a matter of cost.
Thanks again to Chris and Dirk from On the Forecheck.
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Awesome.
Our blue line has potential to be tops in NHL.
I really hope Coburn resigns…….
"Can Geico really save you 15% or more on your car insurance? Is Mike Green really a forward in defenseman's clothing"
I laughed when I read this because you could mean:
a) “resign” as in to quit
b) “resign” as in to sign another contract
I wonder if signing another contract would be “re-sign”? I’m not sure, it seems to me like the hyphen is slowly fading away in its usage in English.
There is a movement to use the hyphen for the word “re-sign” (i.e., to sign up for something again) to differentiate it from “resign” (i.e., to leave a job, etc.). Although I don’t consider them to be authoritative in the sports world anymore, even ESPN uses the different forms in their crawl at the bottom of the page.
It is a logical way to distinguish one from the other.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 21, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Panotch just said on twitter that Hamhuis will likely be the 5th guy, I would want him paired with Kimmo and have Coburn be the 5th guy.
Hell of an expensive number 5. Course, I’m sure he’ll see plenty of time with all four others. If you’re keeping all 5, so much for Homer’s “we’ll be spending significantly more on our goalies.”
This could still be true
They had to pay less than $150K for Leighton, and, what, $1.5 for Emery? So, given that they signed Backlund, they will be paying more for goalies even if they sign Nitty (let alone Ellis or Leighton).
I’ve led the cheering for Hamhuis (although Chris apparently likes him even better than I do!). I actually hope that they sign both Hamhuis and Coburn (and in my dreams, then trade Carter for Ryan and Sbisa and/or some of our draft choices). Yes, this will give us a potentially inconsistent goalie. But the offense would be solid, with a terrific D. I think we would match up better with our Eastern foes.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
If I had the choice between having a franchise goalie or a deep, stellar defense, I’d take the defense. Heck, look what our shallow, stellar defense did for Leighton and Boucher last year.
by memphisbrando on Jun 20, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I'm still a Ryan Parent fan.
What’s wrong with that? He’s a young D with his future waiting for him. BOL, RP.
January 11, 1976
Parent
I still had high hopes for him. The trade’s still good I guess, although it depends on what we sign him for and how long (and whether he gets an NTC).
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 19, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds like the ideal steady D-Presence we would want on our 5 pair and PK. Hamhuis can carry Syvert or Bartulis that would be great he probably end up with 18-22 minute range and bring Pronger’s time in the regular season down some saving him for when it matters most.
I think it is Leighton is coming back more likely then not with this signing or Carter is going to get moved. Forget big ticket goalies Nabokov and Vokuon now.
We're running out of Nashville players to steal.
If we don’t sign Ellis, most of the rest have long-term contracts, or stink, or will be considered Marketing saviors by Predator management (see Geoffrion, Blake, the poor man’s answer to Bobby Ryan in a Flyers uniform). In particular, we should avoid their forwards other than Hornqvist. Of course, we’d take Suter or Weber, but good luck with that.
However, many of the fans would love to get Hartnell back (you can’t believe how many people still wear his jersey in the stands).
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
In particular, we should avoid their forwards other than Hornqvist
I don’t think you’ve heard of Colin Wilson, have you? Basically, Joe Thornton with balls. Obviously, he’s not there yet, but give it time.
Suter and Weber are totally untouchable, in my mind. And no thanks on Hartnell.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
Twitter/Cycle Like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Jun 19, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Wilson is fine, but I’d put him no higher than a JVR skill level. That might be worth checking out, absolutely has potential but not someone who is “head and shoulders better” than most of the rest of our forwards right now.
Hornqvist is RFA I believe. But of course if we make a hostile bid (even if we could!) that might put our, uh, “memorandum of understanding” in jeopardy. :-))
While I understand that “knowledgeable” fans would not want Hartnell back, I’m guessing you’d be ok with, say, Legwand for Hartnell. :-))
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
Even allowing for the fact that he made the trade
and naturally he’d say what he has will replace Arnott I think David Poile’s comments on Colin Wilson are interesting: (around 2:45 mark)
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 20, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Good link, thanks. Interesting interview. However, seems like he was touting Parent almost as much as Wilson (and we know how well Ryan played this year. :-((. ). But Poile is right that they are stacked at defense (and thus Hamhuis was expendable).
I’m pretty sure most of the Nashville public don’t understand how brilliant Poile and Trotz are, given that they have yet to ever win a playoff series. Other than the Forsberg fling year (when they were eaten by Sharks) they have had a seriously constrained budget, yet they have almost always been competitive. (Course, the Legwand contract was stupid).
Just hard to believe Harry, how Poile has aged. I remember his Dad as an exec of the Flyers.
/takes out false teeth and adjusts cane and bifocals.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
I don’t have a problem with him touting Parent: I think he’s going to be very good — D men (with a few notable exceptions) generally take more time to develop. Given that they are stacked at D, he’ll get the time and learn from some top D-teachers and play in a good system for developing D — that’s how they got to the stacked D position.
The Nashville public are not alone if they don’t appreciate the skills of Poile and Trotz. I don’t think the rest of the NHL fans do either.
I remember Trotz with the Pats. Give me back my teeth before I whack you with my cane. And those are tri-focals. Kids these days, I mean really.
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 21, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Wilson is fine, but I’d put him no higher than a JVR skill level. That might be worth checking out, absolutely has potential but not someone who is "head and shoulders better" than most of the rest of our forwards right now.
I don’t know how much you watch the Predators, but this is incorrect. Wilson is, at full potential, a number 1 pivot in the NHL. If he pans out, he will be better than almost every Flyer forward. Obviously, he’s not there yet, but he’s an elite talent.
I wouldn’t even think twice about turning down a Legwand/Hartnell swap. Legwand is invaluable in the current system.
On the Forecheck: preaching the Predators' gospel to the unwashed masses.
Twitter/Cycle Like the Sedins
by Chris Burton on Jun 21, 2010 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Wilson: “Oh yeah, the boy can play…” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnpTt0wmUrE
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 21, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
But if JVR pans out, he’ll be an elite talent and a top line winger too ;)
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 21, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Nashville
Their 1st round picks from 2000 (#6 overall: Scott Hartnell), 2001 (#12 overall: Dan Hamhuis), 2002 (#6 overall: Scottie Upshall) and 2005 (#18 overall: Ryan Parent) have now all been traded to the Flyers at some point. I predict (hope) we’ll take the 2003 one next (#7 overall: Ryan Suter).
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 19, 2010 9:34 PM EDT reply actions
posted this elsewhere, before the rumors that Coburn is staying, but...
some kind of big trade is in the works for a goalie or for a big time RW in which we move Hartnell + Rights to Coburn + pick.
Would Hartnell + Coburn + pick get us Vokoun? I mean the Panthers arent going anywhere. Goaltending wins in the playoffs but it doest get you there if you cant do much of anything else. Hartnell can still be a solid no. 2 offensive guy if he plays smart, and Coburn still has solid potential on defense and they get a pick to help them build. We get the number 1 goalie we’re looking for. Plus I’m not sure what Vokoun’s contract is, but wouldnt that trade clear up some cap space and help us sign Hamuis?
I also would like to see them move Carcillo to clear some more room. Powe can do the job on the 4th line with Betts and Lappy. And although I’d like to see us sign Recchi for the 3rd line, we might not have the room, so perhaps resigning Asham is the best move.
And if we’re not moving Carter, then I guess the 2nd line would probably be Leino-Carter-Briere. I mean unless you keep Briere as a center, but then Carter would have to be the center on the 1st line with Richie on the wing. And I think you have to split up the scoring numbers of Richards and Carter. So again you’re probably looking at Leino-Carter-Briere. Which is solid. But we would still need someone for Richards and Gags.
Depending on our cap room I think if we could get Colby Armstrong to rework his contract that would be the best case scenario. Armstrong was solid on the Pens, his numbers took a hit this year playing on the Thrashers with rookie Evander Kane. If you pair him with Richards and Gagne, he might rediscover his scoring ability.
But if we dont have the cap room, maybe we bring in Recci to play the 1st line with Gagne and Richards. I know Recchi is not a number 1 liner anymore, but we might not have many options and Recchi and Gagne have plenty of experience playing with one another. And Recchi is a grinder, tough guy to play against, and he can still be a deceptive scorer. It wouldnt make our top line by any means deadly, but surely an absolute pain in the ass to play against. And with the Leino-Carter-Briere line and JVR-Giroux-Asham line backing it up. That’s pretty good.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 20, 2010 7:36 AM EDT reply actions
if im wrong im wrong
just my gut feeling, but if we’re not moving Coburn or Carter it looks like the goalie situation isnt changing.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 20, 2010 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Source? Hope it’s not Hockeybuzz.
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by red army line on Jun 20, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
No way they split up Lieno-Briere-Hartnell if there all still flyers
by orangeandblack20 on Jun 20, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s the cap era, and IMO Hartnell and Briere you look to move if you want to keep Carter (especially Hartnell).
Plus, small sample on that line. Leino could be a stud, but he could just as easily revert somewhat back to his Detroit form.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
матовая Клими, Михал нуивирт ваш папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
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by red army line on Jun 20, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Carter staying, Coburn staying...
so if Hartnell is the only guy they’re trying to move, are we really going to get anything back for him to fill our remaining needs – golie, top line RW. If Coburn is staying then our defensive needs have been completely addressed as they can be with the fearsome fivesome of Pronger, TImmonen, Carle, Hamhuis, and Coburn. But is that it?
Can we really get anything for a Hartnell-Carcillo-pick(?) package? Sidenote: I would much rather us resign Powe over Carcillo for the 4th line, and if we have to resign Asham for the 3rd line thats fine. And if we’re not moving Carter, then our 2nd line will probably be Leino-Carter-Briere. So that still leaves us needing help for Richie and Gags.
Unless if we just move Hartnell for anything, and clear the cap space, we would have room to go and sign a guy like Colby Armstrong for the top line, not that he is a top liner right now, but he would probably be the best UFA RW out there to add to that line. Or do we convert a left winger like Tanguay, Ray Whitney, etc.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 20, 2010 8:14 AM EDT reply actions
Can Richards play wing?
We’ve established that Carter is a poor fit on the wing and that Briere’s much better at center. Could Richards fit on the wing? Would he be happy there? If it works, that would go a long way to solving a lot of the Flyers’ roster problems.
Richards on the wing
he played it in the olympics. here’s the problem. do you really want to compile Richards and Carter’s goals on one line? I dont think so, in the end it will probably end up cutting both their production a little bit. It’s better splitting up that production across two lines.
And either way, if they move Hartnell, that still leaves you looking for a RW to play on either the 1st or 2nd line, regardless of the arrangement of Richards/Gagne/Carter/Leino/Briere.
and you could move Giroux up on right wing, but again, then our 3rd line is kinda crap. Giroux can lead a line on his own and he should. Giroux and JVR played well together, they should stick together, our 3rd line is much more formidable that way.
I think our best way to go is to re-sign Asham and Powe who are both cheap and do a good job of filling out our 3rd and 4th lines, and moving Carcillo’s contract to free up some cap space for a winger for the 1st or 2nd line.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 20, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, actually that would be a good thing. Considering that our other 2 top lines are going to be scoring lines as well and we’ll have a solid defensive checking line. It’s not like the putting carter on the 3rd line is going to make him or this team better than if he was on the first line.
Most great teams have a super line. Why not us?
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jun 20, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
If we do move Hartnell, that leaves us with a surplus of centers who could play right wing but would be better off at their natural positions (with the exception of Giroux). At this point, with the cap space dwindling with the likelihood of signing Hamhuis and Coburn, I’d rather try playing Richards and Carter on the same line. I’d actually like to see Richards at center with Carter at wing. I know Carter “doesn’t like” playing wing but I’d rather have Richards setting up the plays and carrying up the puck (even though Carter has a better faceoff percentage). Meanwhile, at third line, we need to sign a cheap UFA RW that’s better than Asham. @bleedorangewhiteblack: You mentioned Recchi. I like that too, but I think I saw somewhere that he strongly prefers to finish out his career in Boston and will try to resign with them. Sidenote— Giroux isn’t going to play on the third line forever. We need to get him on the first line. Maybe when Carter’s contract runs out?
In a perfect world, we’d have no cap, Carter could play wing, Hartnell wouldn’t fall randomly, and Leino’s chin would act like a second hockey stick and make him an even better dangler. But it’s not. Seeing as Carter’s the odd man out in our whole center situation, he’ll have to make a personal sacrifice and hopefully it’ll work out for the better of the team.
by Giroux-ling for Cheese on Jun 20, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Would anyone else be comfortable with Boosh and Buck as our goalies next year? It seems like a bad idea, but Im actually thinking it could work. If we resign Coburn and Hamhuis we have a crazy deep and talented D line. I think both Stanley Cup finalists proved that you dont need a top notch goalie (or even an average one really) if you have a good defense. More proof of that is when Brodeur went down for the Devils last year and Kevin friggin Weeks held down the fort effectively.
Also, there really is no decent free agent goalie option out there that would be much better than those two that we could realistically afford.
by philiafan14364 on Jun 20, 2010 11:22 AM EDT reply actions
This would make it so we can keep what we have. All we would have to do is resign Powe and find a 3/4th line option at RW.
by philiafan14364 on Jun 20, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I like it a lot more than Leighton/Boucher only for salary cap reasons. While I really like both Boucher and Backlund, having them as our goalies (with only Sergei Bobrovsky behind them) still scares me. There’s a reason the two of them will only cost $1.725 million against the cap. They’re not NHL starting goalies and that makes it very risky.
I’d feel a lot better if the team traded for a Jhonas Enroth/Michal Neuvirth type player to stash as the #3, but that’s very unlikely.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 20, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I think this is the most interesting offseason along with 2007 in a really really long time. We basically have to make another major trade IMO and I can’t wait to see what it is.
I like Backlund from what I have heard, but not as our starter. I don’t think we need a great goalie, just a guy to block the puck. At the same time I am not comfortable giving 82 games to like likes of Brian Boucher and Johan Backlund. I think we need a guy with more experience.
I still think Carter may be on the outs because it makes no sense to me to give up one of the few wingers we have, and the guy will bring back a ton in return.
Anybody else think it is possible e deal carter for a player below his value and picks and then parlay those picks into something else in a completely separate trade?
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
by Ed Van Chimp on Jun 20, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Between salary and position demands, I think Carter is out. That frees up some cap room and gives us a piece to help bring in players to fill the holes. Sounds like Hamhuis will work well in this system and shore up the third pairing. The biggest poieces you have to move are Carter and Giroux. Which do you move?
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
I know that many would agree with you, but, from the talk I’m hearing, I really think Carter is staying. Frankly, the feeling I have is that Hartnell may be the odd man out.
I alos think that there may be far fewer moves in the works than many are expecting. IMHO, they will re-sign many of the pieces that we already have (Coburn et al.), and pull one more trade for a winger. From what I’ve seen so far, and from reports I’ve read, I’d be surprised that there were many more moves than that.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 21, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
What does everyone think Carter will ask/get next year?
by philiafan14364 on Jun 20, 2010 11:28 AM EDT reply actions
Just a guess: $6.5M/year. Probably will want a long-term deal with a no movement clause, too.
by memphisbrando on Jun 20, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Flyers can hold out on that one, I think. That’s more than Backstrom got, and Backstrom is three draft years later and as good if not better than Carter. I think he could get signed for as little as $5.7 million long term. Of course shorter term bumps it up.
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by red army line on Jun 20, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Carter cares more about the money than the chance to play for a serious contender, meaning he’d rather get mega bucks than stay in Philly for cheap. Having said that, I don’t think 6+ million is unrealistic if you consider there are teams out there more than willing (and stupid enough too) to sign him for a long term contract in the neighborhood of what Hossa got. And coming from a SCF team makes him more attractive, but that’s just my .02 worth. I do think he’ll be gone very soon though since we’re loaded at center and he can’t play win effectively. He’s just a victim of being the odd man out, otherwise we’d probably try to keep him.
Carter to LA?
LA has the cap space so send Carter to LA for Jonathan Bernier and a couple picks. This will free up some cash and get a good young goalie in return.
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