Thursday Morning Fly By: Mr. Belding!
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 9:49 AM EDT
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Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Flyers are preparing for the draft despite this cringe inducing factoid: "The Flyers' second-round pick this year belongs to Los Angeles , who acquired it in a deal for Denis Gauthier in 2008." [Daily News]
- They're also starting (really?) their search for a goalie: [CSNPhilly]
- Speaking of goalies, I don't know who GCobb is, but he says no to Tim Thomas and Antero Niittymaki, but is okay with Evgeni Nabokov for "under $4 million": [GCOBB]
- By now you've heard about the Blackhawks/Thrashers trade, where Chicago cleared some cap space. [From The Rink]
- Great headline: "Dudes You Hated on the Blackhawks Now Dudes You Hate on the Thrashers" [The700level]
- Is Dustin Byfuglien overrated? [Behind the Net]
- The Hawks also traded Colin Fraser to the Oilers: [The Copper & Blue]
- "Thrashers Trade D Mike Vernace, F Brett Sterling and a 7th Round Selection in the 2010 NHL Entry Draft to San Jose for Future Considerations" [kausatoday]
- Official cap numbers for next season: $59.4 mil, $43.4 mil floor. [TSNBobMcKenzie]
- Outraged over the Hockey Hall of Fame inductees? It's your fault. [Puck Daddy]
- Craig Ramsey will be named the new Thrashers Head Coach: [tsnjamesduthie]
- Jonathan Toews is officially(?) the NHL11 cover athlete, except in Sweden and Switzerland. [From the Rink]
- New Islanders road jerseys, new Kings throwbacks, Sharks and Blue Jackets get commemorative patches, and the AHL unveils two logos. [icethetics]
- Joacim Eriksson participated in his teams triathlon, finishing 6th. Video of him finishing under severe cramps while "Gonna Fly Now" plays: [euroflyers]
- Analyzing PDO. Don't know what it is? Learn. [Behind the Net]
- Lastly, and completely unrelated to the Flyers, Mr. Belding threw out the first pitch in Reading last night. He's looking...pretty bad. [The Fightins]
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G-Cobb
The guy that sucks at analyzing the Eagles is now analyzing Flyers goaltenders! Ugh.
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
seems to me like he just read this site and our comments and ran with it.
I’ll take Nabby for $3MM please Alex.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Answer: What is a dream come true.
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 24, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes
The sport he played he even sucks at analyizing but I think it was one of his writers that wrote this and they are horrible as well.
I’m still laughing that Buff-what’s his goober, got traded to Atlanta. ATLANTA! haha, good luck seeing the playoffs for a while…(no offense meant to our friends over at the thrashers blog…)
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 10:10 AM EDT reply actions
Quick?
I hear some rumblings about trading for Jonathan Quick. If so, this should be cheaper than some of the other veteran free agents netminders floating around, but who would we give up for him?
In Latvia, they're rooting for Bartulis' team, the Filadelfijas Flaieri!
I read that he was the first to call the Chi-Atl trade? I assume this is false and that he simply picked it up 15 minutes after TSN was already reporting it and tried to claim it was his.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
No, he actually got it first — even Bob McKenzie said so.
by Ben Feldman on Jun 24, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
wow, he just made himself another $1MM in suckers subscribers to his website.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, and he was on top of Horton. It’s been screwing with my whole methodology of determining what rumors are potentially true and which ones are definitely false.
maybe Ek has some close ties with SE teams like Atl and FL because most of the media couldn’t care less about those 2 teams.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
This.
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by Travis Hughes on Jun 24, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
From the "Even a blind squirrel finds some acorns" file:
Bob McKenzie:
“In the interest of accuracy, @eklund reported Chi-Atl trade first.”
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 24, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, he was the third-string goalie for the American Olympic team (which isn’t saying much considering once you got past Craig Anderson at #4 there really isn’t anyone else of note — besides Boosh, of course). The Kings overplayed him last year (72 games) because Erik Ersberg is not an NHL backup and I remember at some point he did hit a wall and had to sit a few games. He only got pulled from four of those 72 regular season, which is really impressive and says to me that Murray either had zero faith in Ersberg or that even when he was giving up goals it wasn’t all his fault (Jones-laden defense not providing adequate support, etc.) — probably a combination of the two. He faced an average of about 27 shots against per game, and on average stopped between 24 and 25 of them. What we don’t know, of course, is of what quality those shots are, etc. He has a three year contract starting this season with a cap hit of $1.8 million, which sounds to me like a bargain. But, yeah, I’m not sure the Kings are ready to deal Quick just yet.
by Ben Feldman on Jun 24, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d say no, unless Carter was in the deal. However, having a couple goalie debates here recently, has made me think that Carter for any goalie is going to be overpaying, unless we’re getting picks or legitimate top 6 talent back.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
My guess is they would want Giroux or JVR more than they would want Carter
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 24, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
And probably a draft pick as well…
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 24, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Agree… Just saying in terms of what the Flyers have of value to trade (that is both in terms of talent and cost) JVR and Giroux should be at the top of the list. Carter is an awesome talent but he will cost some bucks this season and a lot more next season…
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 24, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
He most definitely hit a wall. He went through a stretch of some pretty bad hockey. I like Quick, so I’m hoping it was a wall, or just being lazy with technique rather than teams figuring him out.
I’m fairly certain Murray was stressing that he was just exhausted and needed a few days off, but I could be remembering wrong.
by Ben Feldman on Jun 24, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
He also played the later part of the year with a bad leg too, but their only other options were an awful Ersberg and rookie Bernier. So they he played hurt in the playoffs
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
I think they would’ve liked to play Bernier but he was in the thick of the playoff run in the minors wasn’t he?
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 24, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Looked to me like Ersberg would be the one gone this year when Murray played Bernier over him when Quick was injured/tired.
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 24, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Pierre Lebrun today:
L.A. goaltending story
Jonathan Quick’s name has somehow surfaced in Internet-fueled trade rumors involving the Los Angeles Kings goalie.
“Yeah, I read that the other day. There’s no way. He’s not going anywhere,” Kings GM Dean Lombardi told ESPN.com on Thursday.
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 24, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
woah
is no one else psyched that the cap this year rose over $2m to $59.4m? that’s close to $3m over the $56.8 cap we’ve been working with in our roster projections. As far as this year goes, that extra $2.6m might just allow us to get a goalie AND Coburn AND Hamhuis.
Not only that, but that bodes well for seasons going forward.
Am I overly excited???
If we sign Coburn for $2.8m and Hamhuis for $4m, we’ll have $5.243m to sign two forwards and a goalie. If we bring up Nodl as a third/fourth liner, that’s $4.443 for a forward and a goalie.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I’m hoping that is the scenario. I’d love to get Hamhuis for a little less, but don’t think it’s doable. I think Nodl is a perfect filler, then you have either a depth scoring winger or 4th line plugger, depending how they see Nodl moving forward, to fit in to the lineup, plus the potential of adding a goalie.
are you resigning Asham or Carcillo in this scenario? How about Powe? Just wondering.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I would consider bring Powe back, or Pyorala. I love Asham, but don’t see it happening. And Carcillo isn’t what this team needs IMO. Right there I wasn’t talking about bringing any of them back, just bringing Nodl up.
How much do you think Powe and Asham are going to command? Even if they get 10% raises on their last year’s salary, that’s only like 1.2MM between them.
I’d agree with you about Carcillo, they need to upgrade their RW.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure. I think the problem with Asham is he isn’t going to want to sit in the press box, he is going to want playing time, and I don’t know if he’ll get that here. I don’t think either will cost that much, and could easily be brought back. But if the Flyers can replace Powe with Nodl, and Asham with a better scoring depth winger for not much more than Powe/Asham combined salary that might be better.
it might be that Asham ends up being our 3rd line RW
performing with JVR and, like, Briere or Richards. Assuming Carter stays at C and Giroux moves.
yeah, Carter is going to have to play RW or be traded. I can’t see any other options either.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m still entertaining thoughts of getting Bobby Ryan and ish for Carter. Ryan and Afinogenov together should make about the same amount as Carter, so we could add two RWs (our thinnest position) for the cost of Carter and have that full $4.4m for a goalie.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I’m all for getting Ryan, that’s my dream scenario. Every day he doesn’t sign is another ray of light on that hope for me. Maxim, I don’t know, I feel like he may ask for more than he is worth. If we can get him at a reasonable price, sign me up.
Maxim only got $800k last season, or about $13k per point. The best value among our forwards was Giroux’s $17k per point. If we doubled his salary to $1.6m, he’d cost about the same per point as Asham, who was our second-best forward in points/dollar.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Yep
compared to what we’ve been contemplating, that’s downright reasonable. You don’t have to trade Carter or Briere in that scenario, at least until next year.
Still… we still have the problem of signing Giroux & Leino. All the same, another year maybe gives us more information about whether or not a guy like Leino is even worth resigning — maybe he performs brilliantly and proves the playoffs weren’t a fluke, in which case we have to trade someone to resign him… still, that’s not a bad problem to have, I suppose.
All in all, we're not that badly off for free agents next year
RFA: Carter and Giroux
UFA: Gagne, Leino, and Cote
That’s it. Seriously. And I can’t imagine a scenario where Cote’s re-signed for more than the league minimum (if he’s brought back at all). We’ll need to see how each of these guys does before projecting out, but I think the RFAs are the right guys out of that set.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
keys to that lock
i bet Gags takes less $$ to stick around… That would, if we have, let’s say, ~$2m in cap space this year after all’s said and done, leave us, approximately, $5m next year to sign Giroux, Leino, and Carter, and that’s without moving any other contracts (and assuming that every single deal signed this off-season is a 2 year deal or more, which is obviously absurd.)
Realistically, we could have around $10m again to sign Carter, Leino, and Giroux. Gotta assume 5.5-6m or so for Carter, but that’s still a deal more breathing space for the other two than we’ve been toying with. There’s a glimmer of hope for retaining all of them after all, especially if we can convince one of the group to sign a short term deal that will expire when Timonen’s contract comes off the books (he’s reportedly retiring after his current contract expires 2012-2013)
Mr. Belding
Shocked that he survived the heat to throw out that first pitch.
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
Analyzing PDO. Don’t know what it is? Learn
Done. I’ve been wondering what this was for a while now. Makes a lot of sense, the old regress to the mean.
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
I have no idea how to use it yet other than to say “Player X is really lucky, will regress to the mean”.
But I think that’s all you really need to know about it, haha.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Give it time- I’m certain you will find a way to utilize it. I have faith.
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 24, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, thanks.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess it could be useful for identifying over-achievers or under-achievers, and players/teams that are actually better than others if they sustain high PDO numbers
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
Yeah, but there isn’t much to analyze other than what GoPens did: Players regress to 100.0 eventually.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I have a feeling that everyone is going to know what PDO is next season, when Leino is a good prime example of it.
I hope I’m wrong, just have this feeling.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, yeah, but his playoff PDO (1095) kind of balanced out his regular season (965).
He’ll come back down, which I think everyone should expect. So he’s not nearly as bad as his regular season and he’s not nearly as good as his playoffs.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
right, but I’m hoping that his 965 in the regular season wasn’t a true indicator of how he really is or gulp higher than a full season will be…meaning he played really over his head in the playoffs.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah. I mean, he probably did play way over his head in the playoffs, but I highly doubt the regular season is a true indicator let alone higher than a full season.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m hoping this is the case, but there are a few things that C&B kind of made me think about…
a) that perhaps we should trade the guy now when his value as a playoff warrior is really high (is Byfuglien a good example of this?)
b) he was ridiculously sheltered during the playoffs which is a small sample size from which to draw a conclusion. Can Lavy really continue to put the second line out in most offensive zone situations for an entire season?
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a valid point and I definitely think Holmgren should listen to offers, but he’s already pretty cheap ($800k) and I don’t think you’re going to find a better player for that much money.
If someone wants to overpay for him, sure, but he shouldn’t be shopped.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
So what does it actually stand for? Seems goofy as fuck to have 2 articles (1 linked directly, and one linked in the articlde, ) and neither of them saying what it’s an acronym for. I feel like I’m in elementery school with this secret code bullshit sometimes.
by BroadStreetBully on Jun 24, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s a really good question. I have no idea. I googled it, went to Vic Ferrari (the creator)‘s site, and still couldn’t find it.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
According to PPP:
PDO is an advanced stat first introduced by and named for PDO, a frequent commenter in the Oilogosphere. It was developed by Vic Ferrari at Irreverent Oiler Fans.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Ah, thank you!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Bobby Ryan vs. Ryan Getzlaf
I know this was posted over in the awards show post, but their video short last night was awesome. Nice work by the NHL marketing department.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 11:33 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah, I meant to include it. Damn.
Thanks though. Everybody should check it out.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
And buying a house in the Hamptons
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 24, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Whoa
And I love Marleau, I mean that I love him but uh- whoa… Just whoa.
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 24, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
that’s where they used Nabby’s $$
Also, i think it’s safe to think that Jumbo Joe is going to be playing his last year in a sharks sweater.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Oops – said the same thing below – should have read other people’s comments first. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 24, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, now we see where Nabby’s money has gone to instead of him.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 24, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
In unrelated sporting news, New Zealand ties with Paraguay 0-0 which means they are eliminated (undefeated) from the Football World Cup. Going back to bed now, sad.
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
We have room on our bandwagon.
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by Travis Hughes on Jun 24, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, please. Everyone else on planet earth, including the refs, will probably be rooting for Ghana.
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 24, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
At least Ghana has Michael Essien.
Go Blues!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry for the result.
You guys did extremely well.
We came seconds away from going home undefeated as well.
Unlike France and Italy, your country can still be proud!
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jun 24, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
NZ can only be proud, and like Prometheus74 said, the two countries who competed in the Championship game of the World Cup in 2006 cannot be.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 24, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks all for kind words. I’ll reassess my bandwagon position at the end of this round. I think I’m leaning towards Netherlands, cos they are orange
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
Haha
that’s my logic for liking them too
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 24, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Holy moly. It’s finally over. Isner won the fifth set 70-68, and the match
And the stats:
http://sports.yahoo.com/tennis/news?slug=reu-wimbledonmahutisnerrecords_factbox
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 24, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Quick vs. Bernier
Its no surprise that LA is shopping one of those two. I was having this discussion last night when i came to the conclusion that I think I would rather take Quick over Bernier. Even though I still believe that Bernier has the higher ceiling, Quick has been a top goalie two years in a row now. So while Bernier may need a season or two to develop into the game, Quick can come in next year and make us better right away.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Where are people seeing that L.A. is shopping a goalie?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, it’s all Eklund.
So, yeah.
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by Travis Hughes on Jun 24, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, so L.A. is doing what any smart team would do: Keep two really good, really young, really cheap goalies on the team since they cost $2.64 million combined. Why trade one of those now?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/37797154/ns/sports-player_news/
Yep, all Eklund right
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
1. Carchidi speculation (god knows where he got that “enamored” from, since we haven’t heard that anywhere else)
2. Bleacher Report
3. Speculation based on different Carchidi speculation
May as well be all Eklund.
So everybody and there mother is awful at reporting hockey? I mean, all you need to do is type in: Kings, Flyers, Goalie, Trade and a million different articles come up.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Do you account for the articles that are like the threads on here. We like Bernier/Quick, we probably have the pieces to make it work, it’s a nice thought and maybe a possibility. That doesn’t mean there is any actual discussion or makes any of those articles the mighty e5 ranking. Most of those are articles of possibilities, not actual rumors of discussions or “tire kicking”.
Im just making the point that there is speculation, its not just me pulling shit out of my ass. Like I said, i dont know why Im the only one who wants either of these guys. Maybe i over-rate them because I like LA, but I still think both of them (and Schnider) are better thennVolk, Thomas, ellis, mason, and nabby.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
I certainly agree. I would love to see Bernier or Quick in a Flyers uniform on October 7. However, Lombardi has said he hasn’t considered moving one of his goalies, and Homer has said he hasn’t considered moving Carter. So until we have reliable reports about people inside or around one or both organizations suggesting things have changed, how can we assume they have?
I don’t think anyone is debating that the Flyers aren’t a great fit for a trading partner for the Kings, the problem is that I don’t see why the Kings need to make this deal.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I think most everyone here would love one of the LA goalies. This was all just Geoff asking if there was substance to the rumors…you know how reliable the source is. We aren’t saying you made it up or anything, we were just stating that this is mostly an Ek rumor for right now, nothing more, nothing less, so let’s not get our hopes up. At least that’s the way I meant it. I wasn’t trying to take a shot at you, just answer Geoff’s question. And I don’t believe Geoff was trying to imply anything with his qeustion, he was just curious.
Exactly. I was simply asking where the rumors that the Kings were open to trading a goalie. Those links don’t say the Kings want to move one, they say the Flyers like Bernier and Quick.
None of this was a stab at you, JpH, I just had no idea where people were seeing that they were on the block. Nothing I’ve seen – including those three articles – suggest that they are available.
We all know what I think of Carchidi – lump him right in with Bleacher Report and Eklund – so I don’t take any of those links more seriously than my Matsumoto for Calvert rumor.
Until I see a Kings source say they are looking to move one of them, or open to hearing proposals, it’s all just conjured up by people who want the Kings to trade a goalie.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
My thing with any rumor site is that, most of the time, they are gonna be wrong. Eklund will report anything he hears, like hes supposed to do. But most of the those rumors fall through anyway. I would say, what, 10% of all trade offer are actually accepted on the first call, and then maybe like 30% actually go through.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Right, but there’s no way to know whether Eklund “heard” from someone else or “heard” himself say it. He has no credibility whatsoever.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
A “friend” I have actually told me that the conversation below is the ACTUAL conversation that happened…..
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
And im just saying, Im “fairly” sure that the flyers, have at some point in the past few weeks, contacted LA to try and acquire one of there two goalies or vise versa. wether the team answering the calls are listening, I dont think anybody, you, me, Travis, Eklund, can say that.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
right, but the conversation went something like this.
Homer: What will it take for you to deal me Bernier or Quick.
DL: How about Giroux or JVR?
Homer: Straight up?
DL: No both.
Homer: oh, ok *hangs up phone
Intern to DL: So who was that on the phone?
DL: Paul Holmgren, he wanted to know if I would trade Bernier or Quick
Intern: And what did you tell him?
DL: That I wanted JVR and Giroux
Intern: One or the other?
DL: No, both. *everyone has a good laugh
Intern on phone w/ friend: Yeah, DL told me that Homer wants Quick or Bernier and he told them he wanted Giroux and JVR and we all had a good laugh.
PRESTO, rumor started.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure why LA would be shopping both or either for that matter. Quick is signed to a very affordable contract and Bernier is on his EL deal for one more season.
If I was LA, I’d bury Ersberg in the minors, call up Bernier, let him backup Quick and then give Bernier like 30 starts or so and try to find out which goalie shines.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
two things wrong with that:
A) Quick has played exceptionally well the past two years, so playing him in a reduced role is just gonna piss him off and he’ll demand a trade anyway
B) Ersberg has a 1 way deal, Bernier has a two way. The team still makes money when the AHL team playes well and makes the playoffs. So staring Bernier in the NHL hurts both the production of both the LA and Manchester. The drawback, that he leaves in FA because he knows he’ll never get the shot in LA
So by bringing up Bernier, they lose Quick, and have a very possible dropoff in wins. But by starting Quick, they know there still a legit playoff team, but lose Bernier to FA. The Kings are losing 30+ goals in Frolov, so they’ll gladly take a carter/Hartnell/Briere for a goalie that they, realistically, can afford to lose.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
I’m not sure it’s an absolute like you’re saying.
1) Do the Kings own their AHL team in Manchester? I don’t know and am too lazy to look it up. If they don’t, the team doesn’t make money off them.
2) Quick burned out last year, so starting Bernier 25 times and Quick 57 (15 games less than this past year) would not only help the team, it would help Quick. And if he’s going to demand to play in 72 games, he’s clearly delusional. That’s not at all healthy.
3) If they had a Quick/Bernier tandem, how many more games would they have won? Again, Quick tired down the stretch and his play suffered. If you give Bernier (or hell, even Ersberg) more than 10 starts, both Quick and the backup (whoever that is) will play better.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah, I’m clearly buying what you are selling. I don’t see how Ersberg’s one way deal would prevent them from burying him in the minors. He’s only costing them 750K.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
1) the owners still make money, just like Schnider makes money off the Phantoms (or used to when they were here)
2) read above, Quick played hurt at the end of the year (trust me, he was my fantasy goalie, and before his injury he was the #1 goalie in fantasy). And its not that hes demanding to play 72, but he should demand that hes an all star goalie who doesnt deserve a goalie controversy
3) Bernier played 4 games last year and was great, but he was still a rookie, and when was the last time a rookie goalie carried a team to glory? not saying he wouldnt be better then Leighton,Boosh,Backlund,Emery tandem. My whole point was that, LA is rumored to be shopping a goalie, and that we have the firepower to snag one, and that I think it would be better for both sides if we got quick over Bernier, because LA is still a good third line and bottom 6 forwards from being elite, but they still have a good nucleus that will make the playoffs. And Quick is better for the flyers because we are in win now mode and Quick is more readily able to come in and help us now the later.
I mean, seriously, everyone would trade Carter for these ancient goalie, but wouldnt trade him for the younger goalies that are, by all accounts, almost just as good.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Just being nitpicky
As to “everyone” and speaking as a brilliant arm chair GM (you can’t deny it) I would not trade Carter for any goaltender. Not straight up, in a package or otherwise. Now if it is 1992 and you’re talking abou Brodeur or Roy then maybe I would consider it…
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 24, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, but the Flyers aren’t in a good position to make that deal with LA because clearly they hold the upper hand. They have 2 great goalies who are cheap. If the Flyers and Blackhawks proved anything this year, it’s the fact that the key to winning is not overpaying for the goalie position. So what is in it for LA to make them want to trade either of those guys? I’m not saying they won’t listen to offers, but IMO they aren’t going to make a deal unless they are clearly winning the deal because frankly, they have no need to make a deal if they don’t want too.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Do they own the upper hand? LA needs to replace frolov more then anything. The Flyers need a goalie more then anything. Its not like I said “carter and only Carter” as a trading bait. Hartnell, Briere? its not like we dont have a huge abundance of fire power, with both JVR and Giroux playing 3rd line as it is. and both Carter and Briere are fighting for that 2nd line C sport, so both are easily tradeable. and Hartnell is, well, Harnell. all three will get us a goalie and another good RW (maybe Justin Williams) straight up
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
do they need to replace frolov? Seems like getting a guy that scores around 50 pts a year wouldn’t be all that big a problem.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Ouch- that man hurt me sooooo bad in my fanatasy league this year. I drafted him in the 8th round- expletive rant-
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 24, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s always been overrated. His 35 goals the year he was LA’s only offense boosted his stock way more than it should have.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well:
1) Snider made money off the Philadelphia Phantoms because he owned a stake in them. Unless the Kings owners also own the Monarchs, they aren’t making money off of them, just like Snider isn’t making money off the Adirondack Phantoms.
2) I’m of the belief that any goalie should welcome a challenge (Ersberg isn’t one, Bernier is) and if they don’t, the teams should force them to play for their job. It’s one thing to have a controversy (Biron/Niity every. single. year.) and another to have goalies push each other (Vanbiesbrouck/Boucher; Cechmanek/Boucher; Cechmanek/Esche; Esche/Niittymaki, etc.) Obviously, Quick is a lot more secure in his job than any of those guys were, but if he’s truly an all-star goalie, he wouldn’t be in an controversy.
3) I entirely agree. But I just think the rumors are created by a) people who are Flyers fans; b) Flyers writers; c) completely unreliable “reporters”. I just have no belief that the Kings are shopping them. I’d much rather Quick too, but I don’t see why L.A. would trade either one of them yet.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, that settles that.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m still not sure what it settles. I would think any businessman would do what is in the best interest of the NHL team. I would think a tandem of Quick/Bernier, with Quick getting less playing time would mean more wins for the Kings plus a shot at actually doing anything in the playoffs because their starting goalie hasn’t been wore out playing 95% of the season games.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, good point. It settles the “do the Kings make money off the Monarchs” at least.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
we should ask the guys over at the SBN LA Kings site if they think the team should trade either of their goalies. I would think their response would be “if the return was great…” (read, if some idiot was to make us an over the top offer)
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Like umm Giroux and JVR? Just throwing it out there…
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 24, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I already did
There’s a fanpost there by the name Bernier where they replied to my inquiry
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 24, 2010 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh man I’m so happy that G Cobb is now commenting on all local sports. It used to be that only Eagles fans were subjected to his misspelling, poor grammar, and general nonsense.
Not even joking, it’s worth reading what he says for a laugh.
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He started off well: I was nodding when he said no to Tim Thomas, then Antero Niittymaki. But why he chose those two names… who knows.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
personally, I’d take Nitty at $1MM over Leighton at $1MM, any day of the week and twice on Sunday. If it comes down to that of course.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I would too. But that doesn’t mean I want Nitty. It means I really don’t want Leighton.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 24, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
B'hawks Fraser sent to the Oilers
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=532631&cmpid=rss-News%20in%20English
I think this is going to turn into a flood soon…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 24, 2010 12:54 PM EDT reply actions
They will probably start trying to package their draft picks with some of the costlier contracts they have- I’m looking at you Huet and Byfuglien.
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 24, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
almost done
if they get rid of Steegs, then the Hawks can sit back and begin to fill in the holes and make any adjustments moving into the summer.
tpanotch
#Flyers and Dan Hamhuis camp are NOT close on a deal
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
He probably wants $5MM, has enough current contracts to support his position. Homer is offering $4MM, which is really all he has in budget.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
What we have not been considering in our capgeek/projected roster discussions
We’ve all been excited about the cap being raised to $59 million, assuming that will allow more people to be signed.
I’d now like to welcome in to our discussions Adam Smith, noted 18th century scholar and hockey fan.
If the cap goes up that amount, the first reaction will be that agents will say, wow, more $$$ for us (supply/demand curve shift)! The immediate reaction has now been received by Homer from Hamhuis’ agents: “Hey, that $3 million in cap hit is now available, how about $5 million as a negotiation starting point?” Now, there is no way in the universe Danny H. (hmm, do we have any more Dans to sign?) is eventually going to get anywhere near that, but until the market clears, sometime after July 1, they will be at stalemate.
This could seriously complicate Homer’s strategy of “first mover advantage” and also will allow for more crazy moves by some of our lesser-skilled GMs (Rick Dudley?) to complicate the market.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
I think we traded Parent for a 7th rounder and the opportunity for negotiating a deal with Hamhuis. The chances of us making the deal with Hamhuis aren’t that good, which is why we got the compensatory pick in the first place.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 24, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is that Danny and the rest of the market will be messed up potentially now. And I doubt Homer was looking forward to that 7th rounder. He thought Hamhuis would sign. Note, however, several sources have said that the Flyers did not have a deal “in principle” prior to the deal while he did with Hartnell and Timonen…but of course, that was for amount over the market clearing point. Again, Adam Smith says, “Homer, this isn’t going to work”.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
The Flyers say their scouts were "talking things over"...
…but I think they were just playing with the iPad.
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