Tuesday Morning Fly By: What is the Deal With Turco?
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 10:14 AM EDT
in Morning Fly By
233 comments
Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Does anybody know what is going on? CSNPhilly asks if the Flyers are turning to Turco in their goalie search while...
- ...the Inquirer says "Flyers make pitch for goalie Marty Turco" only to have the next article in my RSS Feed be the Daily News with a headline reading "Sources: Flyers never made offer to Turco". You guys work in the same office!
- Oh, we finally have clarification (and a bit of public shaming) for media outlets who thought Evgeni Nabokov would be an over-35 contract. He's not: [Puck Daddy]
- A great look at Tomas Plekanec's contract: [Puck Prospectus]
- Dispelling the notion that Ilya Kovalchuk is the big free agent prize: [Behind The Net]
- You just knew the headlines would be bad, but the Blackhawks took the Stanley Cup in the Gay Pride Parade. Brent Sopel has some nice quotes: [Hockey or Die]
- Looking at the Rangers sudden problem re-signing Marc Staal: [Puck Daddy]
- Analyzing the Stanley Cup contenders budgets for the past few years: "When they say the NHL is now a young man's game, that's the truth -- youth serves when it's reached a talent peak prior to the big contract." [From The Rink]
- Jonathan Cheechoo and Ales Kotalik among those waived yesterday, possibly heading for buyouts: [Hockey or Die]
- Lastly, it's reported that Ryan Potulny was not given a qualifying offer by the Oilers and has become a free agent. Danny Syvret AND Potulny? That'd be a steal. [TSNBobMcKenzie]
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I’m not really concerned that we have basically no idea what’s going on. As long as Homer knows what he’s doing (and I think he does), we’ll just have to let things settle out on their own a few days from now.
I think it would be an excellent idea to at least look into Potulny for the third line. I’m sure he’d be fine as a right winger.
The unknown doesn’t bother me, it’s the contradiction in back-to-back Philly.com articles.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
What?
You don’t like bad reporting? What’s wrong with you…
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 29, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not necessarily bad reporting: Maybe they are just reporting different sources. But it certainly looks like bad reporting when your coworker reports the exact opposite right before/after you.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Just imagine going in to a meeting with your boss and you give a presentation that says “We just made an offer to buy Company X”. You get cheers, job well done, etc. The guy sitting next to you stands up and says “Despite reports, we did not make an offer to buy Company X”. Now everyone in the room is sitting there asking who is correct. Your boss, naturally, thinks one of you is an idiot since you should have known what was going to be said in the meeting.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Until your boss steps up and says, “Contrary to the previous reports which were in fact contrary to the truth…Company X has offered to buy us.”
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
haha, I get it! Newspapers are for sale!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I I just read an article in the paper stating, it was not for sale, just going into bankruptcy.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jun 29, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait a sec …… why the Fu@k am I reading a paper?
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jun 29, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m going to go out on a limb and just say that it is reporting. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck… it’s probably horseshit.
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 29, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
the word bad should be in there prior to reporting Otherwise my comment was damn funny…
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 29, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
This kind of "reporting" really annoys me; READ THE CBA before you write, reporter!
I mentioned this yesterday: the CBA is a pretty easy read, relatively speaking to many other contracts. I like Wysh, but he should be really taken to the woodshed along with everyone else for not reading the CBA on the over-35 contract. It does not matter if I know (or most of you), we are not not making $$ for our hockey expertise.
Get it together, “professionals”.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
“your” expertise"
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
This seems like a good time for me to go on vacation and unhook from the internet (yeah right, I’ll find a way…) for a few days until the dust settles! :-p
And I agree, Potulny does sound like a good idea.
just got back from such a vacation – Glacier National Park. no phones, no tv, no internet. It was awesome actually. Tho I was going crazy since I could get cell phone connection and was getting the Sharks updates. Alot of good that does when you don’t have a data plan and so can’t follow up on anything that is going on.
But … everyone should have at least a week disconnected. It’s relaxing. :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
"It's getting harder and harder to differentiate between schizophrenics and people talking on a cell phone. It still brings me up short to walk by somebody who appears to be talking to themselves." -- Bob Newhart
Ooh, very nice! :-)
I’ll be relaxing in/on/by a pond (technically a “coastal lagoon,” thanks wikipedia!) in RI. There isn’t internet at the house, but my wife is teaching an online class, so we’ll have to make a few trips into town for her to check up on it at a coffee shop or something. I doubt I’ll be able to resist checking up on the Flyers while we’re at it. ;-)
Glacier National Park is beautiful. My mom and my brother live in Whitefish, MT, so they (and I) have been to Glacier on many occasions. Where did you stay – on the park itself or in town nearby?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 29, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
in the park itself – Apgar Village. My boys and I loved it. Heck of a long drive tho, 1200 miles from SF. But really worth it. :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
"It's getting harder and harder to differentiate between schizophrenics and people talking on a cell phone. It still brings me up short to walk by somebody who appears to be talking to themselves." -- Bob Newhart
I know where that is – it is a lovely village. :)
I’m glad you had a good time (especially after driving so far… :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 30, 2010 6:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, and I’m not so sure Potulny would be a good RW. All I’m thinking is that he’s a left-handed shot. Not prohibitive by any means, just a lot harder.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
1) Any ideas what Potulny would cost us?
2) Why does there need to be secrecy about this, Management? We’re relatively sure we know what happened: you made a low ball pitch to Turco hoping he’d have the foresight to see the UFA market is not all that favorable to him, he said “I want more” which we’d be unwilling to pay, and now, after he has a look around, there’s the possibility of him coming back to us in a month and we knock .5 per off the initial offer. Publicize it and look smart already.
Homer a Suuuuuper Genius
How smart will Homer look if Hamhuis won’t sign with Pittsburgh and he takes a pick from a close rival?
Phigment
I’m not really concerned that we have basically no idea what’s going on.
I notice you don’t have a tagline…;)
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
que?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not really concerned that we have basically no idea what’s going on. As long as Homer knows what he’s doing (and I think he does), we’ll just have to let things settle out on their own a few days from now.
I think it would be an excellent idea to at least look into Potulny for the third line. I’m sure he’d be fine as a right winger.
by Ben Feldman on Jun 29, 2010 7:22 AM PDT reply actions
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 29, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re saying Ben has no tagline? Got it.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
That and
“I’m not really concerned that we have basically no idea what’s going on.” would be a good one. It’s a direct quote from the man for one thing.
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 29, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
The more I think about it, the more I think we need to upgrade our defense and try and find the best/cheap goalie not named Leighton that we can.
My thinking is that if we improve the defense then that can mean a decrease in minutes per game for all of our top defensemen, hopefully allowing them to have a little more gas in their tank come playoff time. To me, upgraded the D will have a more dramatic effect on multiple people than just upgrading the goalie.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
best/cheap goalie not named Leighton
Robert Esche!
by Ben Feldman on Jun 29, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
That doesn’t exactly make me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
No…Nitty would.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I’m concerned about his hips. And lack of consistency. It seemed like he’d play so well for a few games in a row and when it looked like he was finally poised to take on the starting role … not so good.
by Ben Feldman on Jun 29, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely, and it is also a concern of mine, but I just don’t know how many good options are out there? Especially if we aren’t going to trade Carter as Homer seems to repeatedly indicate.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Yeah. Your only options that aren’t total trash are Nabokov, Turco (at a really cheap price), Mason and Ellis.
by Ben Feldman on Jun 29, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
From what I understand he sometimes has these flashes of greatness, but also has a tendency to let in some softies.
by Ben Feldman on Jun 29, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Unlike Anderson a year ago, I’m not convinced that Ellis or Mason can handle a #1 gig. Ellis seems like Nitty in that he does really well for a while and you begin to think he’s turned the corner and will be a solid #1 and then pffft — he falls apart and it’s gone. As you say, consistency. Would either be adequate behind a really good D? Good question. I think Turco reminds me of Spaceman Bill Lee now: pitch an amazing shutout or 1 run/goal game and then pffft — lost in space. You have 10 billion posts on Nabby, nothing I could say would do anything but be repetitive. I like that Ben Feldman’s plan. It reminds me of Alfred E. Neuman’s credo.
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 29, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Jean-Marc Pelletier!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, what couple from Atlanta names their kid Jean-Marc?
by Ben Feldman on Jun 29, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
"The other sorta-Canadian-playing-as-an-American-on-a-German-team is Jean-Marc Pelletier, the pride of Atlanta, Georgia.
Now I haven’t yet figured out which minor-league team Jean-Marc’s father was playing on in Atlanta in 1978, but goalie Jean-Marc grew up in Saint-Lambert, Quebec."
More on Jean-Marc and the Hamburg Freezers and owner Philip Anschutz here.
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 29, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
How about Clemensen from Florida? They are purging like crazy and after what I saw in NJ 2 years ago, he is an NHL goalie.
Phigment
Unless the Flyers give up something valuable for him, I don’t see the Panthers giving up a quality, inexpensive goalie like Clemensen. But you’re right — he would be worth getting if he were available.
by memphisbrando on Jun 29, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
should have signed him or Anderson last year
by historywillbemade on Jun 30, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you have one with his Flyers mask? Now, that mask was cool! :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 29, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Meaning Mark LaForest, that is…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 29, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Here it is! :)
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/gmpics.cgi?pic=46
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 29, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
great minds...
i was just thinking of him the other day… can anyone imagine pronger’s reactions/comments if he and roman (in his day) were on the same team????
by Elmo the faithful fan on Jun 29, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
"Whaaaaat's the deeeal with Turco?"
Why would you play the free agent market when the free agent market could play you? Come on, George!
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
by mikefive on Jun 29, 2010 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
haha, You’re always there to get my jokes. I thank you for that.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
The Dallas Stars have decided not to offer Mike Modano a contract for the coming season.
End of an era. How many records?
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
Truth.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Always a shame when a guy like that either has to go to a new team at the tail end of his career or retire. I hope he retires. I rather enjoy the rarity that is someone playing their entire career on one team.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I thought he did retire… what was up with the tear-filled goodbye?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
“After assessing our roster and where we need to go as a hockey team, we have decided to not offer Mike a contract and allow him to explore free agency on July 1,” Nieuwendyk said on the team’s web site. "If Mike decides that he would like to play with another team, we support his wishes. That’s part of the reason behind the timing of this announcement; we wanted to be up-front with Mike and give him the option to explore playing for other clubs on July 1 if he chooses." Dallas Stars GM Joe Nieuwendyk.
Link to Andrew’s Dallas Stars Page
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
by TopShelfTony on Jun 29, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Offers made to Coburn, Carcillo, Powe
supposedly the flyers made qualifying offers to all of them, so if thats an early indication, then we’re keeping all of them. And apparently between the cap room we have and having to carry a full roster, meaning pay guys to fill out the roster like Pyorala, Cote, etc. I think we’re only going to have enough cap room to get a goalie and a 5th defenseman.
We wont be able to improve any on the RW. Unless we trade Carter for an upgrade at 1st line RW, we’re going to have to just make some combination out of Gagne/Richards/Carter/Briere/Hartnell/Leino for the first two lines.
As far as the 3rd line RW, it would appear we’re going Carcillo there. There’s just simply no money for a 3rd line RW. And Carcillo isnt a bad option, like Asham he has some hidden offensive ability and he’ll protect Giroux and JVR out there. Although it doesnt seem Giroux needs much protection with how gritty he plays and how hard he’s able to check for his size – have I mentioned how much I love Giroux?
Anyways it would appear unless we trade Carter the lines are looking something like:
Gagne-Richards-Briere
Leino-Carter-Hartnell
or some other combination
JVR-Giroux-Carcillo
Lappy-Betts-Powe
Pronger-Carle
Timmonen-Coburn
5th defenseman FA-Bartulis?
G1 Hopefully Nabokov at a reasonable price
G2 Boucher
although moving Carter for Bobby Ryan and a 6th defensman in addition to who we are hopefully able to get for goalie and the 5th defenseman would be the best thing that could happen ever.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 11:44 AM EDT reply actions
Swap Carter and Briere…
I don’t see them messing with the Leino-Briere-Hartnell line, not at first anyway.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
you're right but...
I just think it’s a giant mistake to put Richards out on the wing for Carter, perhaps more so than breaking up the Leino-Briere-Hartnell line. Richards is just an all around better center, needs to be able to go all over the ice and not just one side. Relying on Carter’s defense to cover for what Richard’s covers on defense is going to end badly. And the Briere-Carter thing has never worked so I think what I put is the best option.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
having said that I too would be surprised if they broke up that line, but I think it might need to happen.
Although if we move Carter for Ryan, then everything would be dandy.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think they will put Richards on the wing. I think he would be center with Carter on the wing. Despite the fact that Carter doesn’t like playing the wing and is our best face off guy.
I just think its foolish to limit Richards to just one side of the ice as you mentioned. Especially since Carter is rather one dimensional. Richards is a play maker and a great defensive forward. He needs to be the center on that or any line.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
agreed again, but...
for reasons you just said I dont see Carter lasting on the wing long.
I feel like he’s going to pout about it and not make the effort to become a good winger. And he is our best face off guy on a team that needs to win faceoffs more. And Briere is more versatile than Carter, he can play wing.
So again, the moment the Leino-Briere-Hartnell line faulters a bit or if the Gagne-Richards-Carter line stalls, your best option is Carter at center on the 2nd line and Briere on the wing on the 1st line.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
But Briere does so much better as a center.
I agree, I do think Carter will pout and he won’t give the max effort, and that is exactly why he has to be traded. He just has too.
But he probably won’t.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
we’re in agreement. Carter should go in favor of a top right winger, thats the solution, anything else is going to be a bit of cluster f**k on the first two lines and possibly get a bit hairy with egos and such.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Carter is going to have to play RW, that’s the only way I see it. Maybe Lavy will convince him that it’s the best thing for his stats etc. and he’ll buy into it.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
who knows
maybe this is the moment that leads Jeff Carter to become the next John LeClair.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
different wing, but nevertheless.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Lavy is going to give him the “We’ll play better” talk like he gave after Game 3 against Montreal. Except it will be “You’ll play better on the right side.”
Seriously though, the Flyers have this thing with drafting forwards and changing their positions. Gagne was a center in juniors and the Flyers made him a left wing. Giroux was a right wing in juniors and now he is a center. I remember they did that with other players too. Prospal was a natural center and was shifted to the left side; Zubrus was drafted as a center and shifted to right wing. Carter is only one in a long line of players to whom the Flyers have done this.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
it’s really the only way that Carter fits in the system. If he adapts, that first line is really, really good. I mean, outside of maybe the SJ sharks or the Capitals, I can’t think of a line that could boast the firepower of a Gags-Richie-Carter line that is firing on all cylinders and then to follow that with the Briere line, if they can even produce at half the rate of the playoffs, we’re in great shape.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
and that’s not even mentioning a little guy by the name of Claude Giroux on the 3rd line.
still amazes me that people could think of the flyers run as a fluke. it was just simply a team realizes its potential finally. It just took the better part of 9 months.
The Flyers are simply one of the most talented in the league, they were only holding themselves back. Oh and that tricky goalie position.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
it was still a fluke, but I’m not going to argue with results.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
if you think it’s a fluke then I guess you assume the Flyers have no shot next season?
fluke’s dont happen twice. And I for one think if the flyers make the right moves they’re right back in it.
I guess you dont because it’s still the same basic team as last year.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
fluke’s dont happen twice.
That should be the new James Bond movie.
Daniel Craig as James Bond in: Flukes Don’t Happen Twice.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
no, i didn’t say that. I simply stated this year was a fluke. Not every playoff season, do things break right for your team to get the bottom 3 offensive teams that made the playoffs in the same year. That is just downright lucky, no matter how you slice it.
With the right moves, (ie. get a guy in net) this team can challenge for the cup again.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s really not the Flyers, I would think, so much as hockey in general. Most of the good players coming through systems are probably going to play center being as that is the natural place to put your best player/skater/puck handler. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if it happens in every other organization.
Of course then again I could have no clue what I am talking about. It happens sometimes…
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 29, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
well
can Carter play 3rd line wing, because Carcillo plays his best on the front line. I just dont see Carcillo playing 3rd line.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
no, it’s a waste of Carter’s talent on the 3rd line wing. You don’t pay a guy $5MM a year to play that role. Carcillo works out fine for me on the 3rd line. He opens space for JVR and Giroux and actually could be really effective there.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
ok
but what happens when Giroux and JVR are making 5 mill and playing 3rd line. And, when you play with those two, thats like playing on some teams 1sr line, and most teams 2nd lines.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
when they are making $5MM, they’ll be the second line and we probably won’t have the 2nd line we have now as probably Hartnell and Leino will be gone and Briere will be centering them.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would Leino be gone? He’ll probably remain pretty cheap relative to his production and he’s just come off his rookie year.
Giroux and JVR can’t make 5 million and play 3rd line unless we load our cap space with forwards and neglect defense and goaltending completely, by that time Carter/Briere won’t be on the team.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 29, 2010 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
it’s a waste of Carter’s talent on the 3rd line wing. You don’t pay a guy $5MM a year to play that role
Which is why I want to pay someone else, who won’t bitch about playing wing, less money to play that role. I know Carter has been with the team for a while and, yes, it’d be nice to keep him around and let him be part of our future, but I just don’t see how he fits into the puzzle right now. We’d have to majorly throw things out of whack to accommodate him. I like Carter, but if he’s an extra piece and doesn’t fit our needs, his presence (and cap hit) are going to hurt us more than help us!
I know what you are saying, but this is one of the funniest things I’ve read, b/c it basically reads bump Carter off the first line for Carcillo…
In reality, you are saying Gags-Richie-Carcillo becomes the 3rd line, Hartnell-Briere-Leiono becomes the 1st and JVR-Giroux-Carter becomes the 2nd line.
isnt that a good problem
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
I’m not saying it’s good or bad, I’m just saying it reads funny. Personally I’d rather put Carter with Richie and Gags, let Carcillo walk, and try to sign Afinogenov or Nolan. And in my dream scenario Carter is playing on the coast that best reflects his attitude, and we have Bobby Ryan to play on the right side.
But if Carter and Carcillo stay, I’m fine with either line up option.
Afinogenov may be looking at the KHL, according to Nick Kypreos.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Maybe they just had a bad appearance in the Finals, but I didn’t think Gags/Richie/Carter had any chemistry…
You are basing that off of 6 games, give that training camp and pre season. If it fails at any point, switch up the lines with Carcillo making Richards the “3rd line center” and Carter the “2nd line center or wing”
exactly, give Lavy a chance to “coach” him into accepting the role, let him play their during the preseason, etc. and roll with it.
Also, being healthy will help with some of the issues (hopefully)
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
while im much more in favor of moving Carter for a true top line RW. We cant rule out the possibilities of Gagne-Richards-Carter.
Carter had zero time to adjust to playing wing and he was hurt. So it’s very hard to say anything based on their Finals performance.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
the fact that we are even in a position that it looks like a serious possiblity that Carter and Richards will be playing on the same line regularly without stretching the team too thin on the 2nd and 3rd lines is amazing in it of itself.
A year ago we would have thought that impossible without having a non-existent 3rd line. But thanks to Leino, JVR finally joining the team and Giroux re-emerging and hopefully staying, well, here we are.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
no chance in hell Carter plays 3rd line wing. If he got moved to the 3rd line, at the least he’d be Center and they would move Giroux to wing. But that’s not happening either.
Carter is getting paid too much to be on the 3rd line. It’s not going to happen. Lavy nor the organization would want that.
As far as you’re argument for Giroux and JVR getting paid 5 mil a year and playing third line.
Easy there. We’re still a few years away from that. And by the time that happens. Something will have given with Briere and Hartnell. By that time Hartnell will most likely be playing third line if he’s still on the team. And Briere will either be traded somehow or playing wing or something. And by that time Gagne will probably have retired hopefully.
That means JVR is at least playing second line wing or 1st line wing depending how much he can improve. And Giroux if he starts hitting all of his potential will be 1st or 2nd line. Which is too say again that something will give with Carter.
This team wont have Giroux at 3rd line center forever, that either means Carter on the wing or traded. If Giroux is getting paid 5 mil a year, he wont be playing 3rd line anything.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
much in the same way that right now Carter being paid 5 mil means he’s not playing 3rd line.
If we’re going to speculate on the distant future then you’re looking at something like:
1st line: JVR-Richards-Briere
2nd line: Hartnell-Giroux-Carter
3rd line: who the hell knows
4th line: who the hell knows
id like to keep Leino, but I think there’s no shot we keep Leino next year unless we find a way to move Hartnell or trade Carter
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
i mean keeping Leino after next year
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
yup, I’m of the opinion that they will let Gags walk next year and use his money to resign Carter. That or Gags will take a pay cut, so they can resign Carter.
JVR will be with Briere and Giroux and maybe some of our talent in the AHL will fill the 3rd line…(haha, do we have talent in the AHL?)
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Gags should retire as a flyer, however due to our cap situation it will probably have to be more of his decision to stay than the Flyers ability to pay him.
If Leino kills it next year. This team seriously has to consider finding any means necessary to move Hartnell. Because Leino is very young and you lock him into a reasonable long term contract and that will be big.
But lets see how Leino performs over the course of a whole season first.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to clarify, I would rather move Hartnell, and at the end of next season Hartnell would have greater value than RFA Carter, but the NTC would still pose a problem.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 29, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
You are all "thinking in the box"
I wrote up something on this a few days ago.
There is no good answer to the lines as the roster is currently configured. If things stay as they are, then clearly the best line is JVR, Carter and Giroux. Carter is a good faceoff guy,not a good passer. Carter can play center on faceoffs (thus has the center title), Giroux the center while the puck is in play.
I don’t care who is 1st, 2nd or 3rd Irrelevant. I just want people to perform to the best skill levels (see Briere, Hartnell, and Leino during the playoffs). Yes, this potentially leaves us a “checking line” of Richards-Gagne-Carcillo. But that would be a heck of a checking line and create all sorts of matchup problems for the opposition. Start different lines each game/each period, etc.
Make the TOI even for everyone. I assume Carcillo gets less TOI in this scenario since Richards and Gagne would be on special teams.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
it doesnt matter if you care or not about the lines and think its irrelevant. I can assure that Lavy and Flyers do think its relevant.
And putting Richards and Gagne two goal scorers on a checking line is absurd. You will never see it. Ever. I would stake everything on the fact that you will never see Richards or Gagne on a checking line.
That being the case, its pointless to discuss since it wont ever happen.
Also JVR-Carter-Giroux is NOT the best line.
Giroux should be not be limited to wing. Giroux already plays better defense and checks better than Carter, and he has better ice vision than Carter, and he can potentially be a great goal scorer.
Carter can score that’s it. Which again is why Richards is even better as a center than Carter. Because even though Richards cant score quite as well, he does everything else better than Carter.
Giroux is Mike Richards with better vision and goal scoring ability. To split Giroux on the wing in favor of Carter would piss me off to no end.
Carter either has to be a wing for Giroux or they play on separate lines. Carter shouldnt even be a center on Richard’s line for reasons i stated above.
Carter is either going to become a winger or he should be traded for one.
Richards, Briere, and Giroux are all better all around centers at this point than Carter.
Carter’s ablitiy to score goals, but his refusal to use body the way he should and play defense as well as the others listed above, makes him a winger. Anything else is a waste of Richards, Briere and Giroux, especially Richards and Giroux.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 30, 2010 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Carter is the only center on the team that is big enough to play the wall consistently. He can become a nice shooting wing with the right center. Richards can be the playmaker for Carter.
Phigment
we’ve been over this. Carter’s defense replacing Richard’s defense on the wing would be a major deficiency.
Richards is an all aruond better center than Carter. Richards is a much better two way player than Carter, his skillset is one that you want covering as much ice as possible, not limited on the wing. We’ve all seen Carter not skate back on defense too many times. As far as your argument on Carter’s size to play the well consistently. That would be true if Carter ever used his size. He doesnt. Richards is much better at forechecking and backchecking than Carter, which is again is another reason he has to be at center not Carter. Even Giroux uses his body more than Carter, which is pathetic.
Carter does one thing great and that score goals, Richards doesnt score quite as well as Carter, but he does everything else better. Carter’s skillset as it stands lends itself much more to be a winger. Richards all around abilities which exceed Carter’s make him a much better center.
In short limiting Richards to be just a playmaker for Carter and limiting him to one side of the ice would drastically scale back what Richards does for this team. And it would become evident quickly.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 30, 2010 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions
“Carter’s defense replacing Richard’s defense on the wing would be a major deficiency”
that was poorly worded. the point is Richard’s defense at center would be sorely missed if we replaced Richards with Carter at center.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 30, 2010 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting read on Plekanec's new contract
I still think this will be one a couple years from now the Habs will facepalm over. But, looking at the numbers, it’s not as bad of a contract as I thought, hwoever, some of the contracts they use for comparison I don’t think are very good contracts either, so…we’ll see I guess.
I think I’d stay away from Turco. He is declining with age and you can probably get equal results with less of a cap hit. I’d rather we sign Theo,Ellis, or Mason than go to Turco. I really like the idea of Nabby for 2 years at $4.5 million a season. I think the market will play Nabby right into our hands as there aren’t many teams searching for starters (Atlanta, Tampa, Philly, San Jose) and an abundance of goalies. Nabby ain’t going to San Jose so that leaves Tampa, Philly, Atlanta. Atlanta is still building and wouldn’t try for Nabby so that leaves Philly and Tampa. If Nabby wants to win, he will come here and he’ll have to do it at a reasonable price b/c market leaves him no leverage.
by historywillbemade on Jun 29, 2010 1:28 PM EDT reply actions
Nabby ain’t going to San Jose
I don’t know, I’m in the secret hope that something magical will happen and we don’t lose him.
(yes I like my fantasy world at times)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
"It's getting harder and harder to differentiate between schizophrenics and people talking on a cell phone. It still brings me up short to walk by somebody who appears to be talking to themselves." -- Bob Newhart
I’ll agree on staying away from Turco, I’ve just never been that impressed by him.
I’ve been to enough Caps games to confidently say DO NOT SIGN JOSE THEODORE.
Ellis and Mason appeal to me, they put up similar numbers to Nabby and Turco last year, but are younger and cheaper. Mason is a little older than Ellis, so I think I like that bit of extra experience.
So Mason is my pick, but they really are separated by subtleties at this point, IMO.
by hintzy64 on Jun 29, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ellis or Mason aren’t bad options but I’m holding out hope that we can get Nabby as I think that for the right price and term (4.5 million/year for 2 years), it gives us the best chance of taking the cup. I think I’d say Nabby>Mason>Ellis>Theo>Turco
by historywillbemade on Jun 29, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Recommended for the all caps statement. Thank you thank you thank you.
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 29, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
why? Jose was actually pretty good for WSH last season and a lot of knowledgeable Caps fans will tell you that. Once again, for the right price and term, Jose is an upgrade over anything we currently have.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t want a goalie listed under 6 foot until I see how they perform with the new sized leg pads that will be proportional to height. Maybe I’m making a mountain out of a mole hill here, but I have a suspicion those small goalies that are so “strong down low” will be seeing a few more pucks squeeze between the wickets next season.
As long as those wickets aren’t as big as Leighton’s, I’m fine with it. My god, there were times you could drive an f’ing mack truck through his 5-hole.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I’ll be happy as long as Leights isn’t back
by historywillbemade on Jun 29, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s fair, but you don’t want a goalie who’s listed under 6 feet next year when this new rule starts in my mind either. You can’t predict how it will effect their performance. Granted they are pro’s, and should adjust, but I’d rather not take a risk on a goalie that will have to make the adjustment, and stick to goalies that won’t have to make the major adjustments.
that’s a fair point
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought that whole change was more to shrink the size of equipment the bigger guys wear, not to penalize the small guys? The only articles I’ve seen have always ended in “hoping to see more specifics soon”.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 29, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, it really only effects the shorter guys for the leg pads. I forget the specifics, but basically guys like Manny Legace, who was 5’10" but wore 38" pads can’t wear them any more. Rinne, who is huge, can keep his 38" pads, but that is now the cut off for pad height. A lot of shorter goalies wear pads that are, proportionally speaking, far too large for them. This rule will mostly effect goalies under 6’ as I understand it from talking with guys that play goal and understand the equipment sizing better than I do.
What I remember: the distance from floor to middle of knee cap + no more than 55% of the distance from kneecap to pelvis (top portion of pad coverage) + distance from top of boot to bottom of the blade (depending where they take this measurement from, goalies with larger feet may get an additional height advantage).
This rule change basically is telling the world, once and for all, yes, size indeed matters and provides you with a measurable advantage.
I see what you’re saying, I was referring back to the first article linked from Puck Daddy, with the Gary Bettman “I wouldn’t mind if there was a little more open space to be shot at”. I linked that below, since it seems contradictory with the actual rule change.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 29, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Alrighty, I am so confused now….
Bettman said he is concerned about uniformity and consistency in goaltender’s equipment as well as size.
“I think all goaltenders should be on equal footing,” Bettman said. "I think if you’re a goaltender who is wearing smaller equipment, you shouldn’t necessarily have to play against a player who is more aggressive in terms of what he’s wearing when he’s wearing stuff that maybe isn’t necessarily for his protection but is being used as a way to help keep pucks out of the net. That’s not what the safety element of goaltender equipment was for.
“Goal-scoring is down a drop. Goaltenders are bigger, both physically and by the equipment they wear. And I wouldn’t mind if there was a little more open space to be shot at.”
Article 2:
The rule, which would start next season (2010-11), is in direct regards to the size of thigh rises, chest protectors and pants. Smaller goaltenders will now be limited to the size of the pads they are wearing, while bigger goaltenders will most likely still be able to wear their XXL (sometimes XXXL) chest protectors and pants.
…
What I find so interesting about this video is right at the end, when Whitmore mentions that form-fitting is the ultimate goal. How can this be considered at all fair? As most fans know, scoring has slowly gone up since the Lockout ended. Is it really necessary, or does it even make sense, to penalize smaller goalies while allowing the bigger ones to stay big?
Those two articles don’t say the same thing.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 29, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I’ve found several conflicting stories about what is actually happening. Most of the conversations I have are with guys that play goal.
I know at one point it was all about the rises, and the uber big calf protectors that were allowed on the new narrower pad widths. Basically they stopped pucks that would get by the first edge of the new narrower pad. So those are part of the form fitting element changes.
Then height came in to play. At one point Legace (5’10") was allowed to wear the same length pads as Rinne (6’5") b/c the pads were capped at 38". Now I keep hearing, and reading stuff on the length being proportionate to a goalies height, but I have yet to read an official rule from the league on it. I have just read a bunch of discussions on boards about the rule change.
It’s so weird to deal with the risers based on height, I can’t see how they’ll be able to deal with that effectively. Just because you’re a certain height doesn’t make everyone’s proportions the same.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 29, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
No the risers, and calf protection I think is a uniform change, it’s a half inch less for risers that are allowed now, it has nothing to do with goalie size. It’s a universal rule to cut down on the goalies findings ways around the narrower width pad rule change.
I may be wrong on the height. Everything I read stems from an article in the Hockey News and has never become official. I no talks in thorugh October were all saying the NHL would like to see it in place for next season. However, I have yet to see anything official come out after that, I just kind of assumed b/c at the time I read most of the stuff on it, they seemed dead set on applying that change.
Upgrade of Leighton is not Theodre in my opinion, nor would Theodre be an upgrade over Boucher or Backuland now that I think about it. He over pursues the puck, does not line up correctly to shooters. Athleticism, yes. Focus on playing his position, no. And he is too old for that as far as I am concerned.
I can’t speak for any majority or minority of caps fans and am not too concerned about what they think. If Theodre was good or just good enough he would have been the starter for the Caps in the playoffs, he wasn’t.
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 29, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
didn’t he win like 17 games in a row at the end of last season?
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, I guess I can’t argue with that…
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 29, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I think my main point is that virtually anything is an upgrade over Leighton in my opinion.
Would I love to get Vokoun. Absolutely, but I’ll settle for Mason, Ellis, Turco, Nabokov, Nitty, Theodore, hell, I even think Manny Legace deserves a look and for the right price, they are all a better bargain than Leighton at $2MM (if that’s the number he’s looking for)
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s fine I just disagree. I like Leighton. For whatever reason he did well here. I think he has earned the right to see what he can do for a full season.
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 29, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
fair enough, but if the professionals (ie. GM Holmgren) felt he earned the right, I doubt we’d be shopping for another guy. That’s all I’m saying.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
That's why
I get paid a shit ton of money to post half assed comments here as opposed to a shit ton of money to draft, make offers to, and sign hockey players to professional hockey in the NHL for the Philadelphia Flyers.
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 29, 2010 4:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What about the kids?!?! Remember the children, people!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Willie Huber just died yesterday:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=533148
I remember he was tough for us to play against when he played with the Rangers; I had forgotten that he had spent any time with us, but apparently he did.
R.I.P., Willie.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 29, 2010 2:31 PM EDT reply actions
The Oilers put Ethan Moreau, Robert Nilsson and Patrick O’Sullivan on waivers. I think any of these three would make great additions to the Flyers.
Nilsson is a good young winger and I’ve always been a big fan of O’Sullivan from his days in the juniors when I’d watch him. Moreau would maybe be the least out of the three I’d want to sign, but what he offers in leadership, I’m sure would be beneficial.
Nilsson and O’Sullivan are centers (just like Potulny), so I doubt the Flyers pick up their salaries. Moreau is more likely, but they’re on waivers for a reason: In case Edmonton decides to buy them out.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I was using the NHL stats page which says they’re both centers. But judging off faceoff numbers, they clearly aren’t used as centers.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I know this hasn’t come up in a long time, but maybe our fears of losing the rights to Nic Riopel when we sent him back to Moncton were unfounded. He’s on the list of players attending prospect camp next week:
http://www.csnphilly.com/06/29/10/Prospect-Camp-Opens-Monday/landing_flyerandice.html?blockID=262930&feedID=6572&qv=1#bp
Good find. I wonder how they decide who is invited and not. Joonas Lehtivuori is absent from that list.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe there’s a distinction between “scheduled to attend” and “invited”?
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 29, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm, good point. Hopefully that’s the case, unless JLoo is just so awesome it’s not fair to the others.
(Yes, I think that should be his new nickname.)
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, I’m never too sure of it myself. It’s the ‘ivuo’ part that always trips me up.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I usually end up with “Lehtivori” and can’t figure out what letter I’m missing or where it goes. On a bad day, it winds up as “Letivuri.”
Honor is no substitute for victory.
that first one isn’t far off. And since he’s never mentioned anywhere outside of this site and Tim McManus’ PostStar, I think we’re already far ahead of the curve.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I was relieved to see his name on the roster. Interesting that they’re leaving Eriksson in Sweden.
I think they’re leaving Eriksson in Sweden for a few reasons: a) he’s already jumping to a better league with a new team, he should stay focused on that; b) he likely won’t be coming over to north america any time soon; c) why have him play on the smaller rinks for a few weeks and then go back to the larger ones? By the time he gets adjusted, his confidence may be shot; and d) Do they need him? There are already 6 goalies scheduled to attend, why crowd it even more for a guy you won’t have in your organization (NHL, AHL, ECHL) this year?
But yeah, I was looking for his name too. I’m just okay with it being absent.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
carter...
he just dosen’t fit… i’d hate to see him go but the team need two RWs… trade him for a 1st line RW… cut asham… keep carcillo for the 4th line and occasional 1st line duty…. pick up a scoring threat for the 3rd line… add one more good D man… and 2011 will be a great year!!!!
by Elmo the faithful fan on Jun 29, 2010 3:16 PM EDT reply actions
yeh… we’ve all been through this already…
there is no room for a 3rd line RW major upgrade – Carcillo will be the guy there, Powe will be on the fourth line regularly.
They’ll pick up a goalie and a 5th defenseman.
What happens with the first two lines and Carter remains to be seen, although indications are Carter is staying.
We really dont need to re-hash this stuff at this point.
The main points of discussion at this point are the goalie and 5th defenseman. Nothing else major is likely. Coburn, Carcillo, and Powe will be back. Asham won’t be.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 29, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t be so sure on the 3rd line winger yet. Someone might spring lose for somewhere. I really loved Carcillo on the 4th line. Betts and Lappy were solid on D all year but they are were so much more effective offensively and on the forecheck at the beginning of the year when Carbomb was playing with them.
Any chance in hell Pronger and Timmo can convince Teemu to sign here on the cheap. JVR-Giroux-Selanne would be fun even thought Teemu is about as old as both JVR and Claude combined he still netted 27 goals in 54 games that is 0.5 G/G. He was only getting slightly over 17 minutes per game too.
yeah that would be fun
but I think he’s said he’s either resigning or retiring. Might cost too much to convince him to do otherwise, especially when it’s not like Anaheim is devoid of talent.
And his deal would be an over 35 year old contract without a doubt. He is friggin 39 jesus. What is it with guys who where the number 8 and playing forever.
What is it with guys who where the number 8 and playing forever.
It’s a nice round number with no sharp edges to cause inadvertent injuries.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
by The Dark on Jun 29, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Holmgren hints in TV interview there’s problems w/Coburn re-signing
Because there wasn’t already enough uncertainty.
I don’t see why this is a big surprise. I’m sure his offer was a standard 110% raise on his last year’s salary. Coburn probably wants to be paid like Matt Carle, which means the two sides are roughly $2MM apart.
Like we’ve already discussed, if someone comes in and offers him $3MM plus, Homer’s going to jump at the 1st and the 3rd round picks. If it’s less than that, we’ll just match seeing we all expect him to sign between $2MM-2.5MM anyway right?
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s just hope that if thats the case the offer sheet comes when there are still good veteran options available.
Question?
Assuming Hamhuis doesn’t sign with the Penguins and hits the open market on July 1st and Homer somehow gets him to agree to take 4.5MM or gives him a front loaded contract that eases our cap hit to about $4MM a season…would we still own the Penguins 3rd round pick? I’m thinking yes…
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 29, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think so. I think the pick is contingent on him signing before July 1. But I could just be making that up.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
We secured the Pens 3rd pick no matter what happens
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jun 29, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
The pick belongs to the Flyers no matter what … even if on July 1, the Flyers sign Hamhuis to a contract. Now THAT would be very embarrassing to the Pens.
by memphisbrando on Jun 29, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
it’s going to be a very nervous and anxious week (or more) for flyer fandom. The goalie situation is the one that has me the most anxious b/c I feel like they can either a) fail trying for the top talent (Nabby) and then lose out on promising options like Ellis or Mason and end up with Niitty/Biron/Leights,or b) overpay for Turco, Nabby, or Theo and bust out in the playoffs again, while someone like Niitty or Ellis catches fire for some other team.
by historywillbemade on Jun 29, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Montreal just acquired Dan Ellis’ rights as part of a deal for Sergei Kostitsyn. I figure though at this point, based on Ellis’ tweets, he wants to test free agency.
So they traded one young goalie for another young goalies rights?
Makes total sense.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Ellis is 30.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
I can see why Montreal would do this, but Nashville seems an odd fit for Kostitsyn. They like overachievers there, not naturally-gifted players with bad attitudes.
I think Montreal is going to sign Ellis
Agreed. This is somehow about Ellis and getting “something” for him.
I’m pretty sure Ellis put out a tweet that was posted here at BSH last week that said his time in Nashville was over…and he said in the tweet he was in Montreal (he is not from there). I immediately was curious, since this occurred right after the Halak trade. So Ellis in deep negotiations with the Habs is not a surprise.
But getting Kostitsyn is indeed a surprise. I wonder if there is another shoe to drop. Frankly, even if it was Boyd for Kostitsyn straight up, that would be a weird trade from a Nashville perspective.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
I feel your pain. :-))
But this points out, at the least, that all the people saying we can get Ellis for $2 million, or Coburn for $2 million, are absolutely whistling in the graveyard. I’m not arguing that Ellis or Coburn are worth more, I’m saying that there are a lot of bad GMs out there.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
This could actually work for Montreal though. Ellis has been in this situation before behind a young up and comer and possibly isn’t a legitimate #1 anyway
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
Actually Behind the Net doesn’t think Ellis should sign with the Canadiens for pretty good reasons.
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
He was in Montreal last week?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone posted a link to his tweet.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
Ellis tweets
Very excited about the trade! Its an honor to be part of a team with such great tradition and passion! Hope we can figure something out!
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
I went back two weeks and haven’t seen a single tweet of him being in Montreal.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry. Apparently hallucinating.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
Todd, agree with all of your comments, and BtN’s. However, see my earlier comment about “bad GMs.”
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
ok let’s look at this from a new perspective. What are the other teams that are looking for goalies? What are those teams likely going to do? That should give us a fair indication of how things will work out for the Flyers.
So here’s the teams I think are likely in the market for a #1 goalie:
Atlanta-
Tampa-
San Jose-
Philly-
by historywillbemade on Jun 29, 2010 7:45 PM EDT reply actions
Very good analysis. Except I can’t see them signing Biron, more likely Leighton. (Which means, unlikely for either).
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
So basically it’s Philly, Tampa, and San Jose in the market for a starter. Given that Nabby isn’t going back to San Jose, he’s either a major rebuilding piece in Tampa for like 4-5 years or will have to suck it up and take w/e homer offers him
by historywillbemade on Jun 29, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Precisely. I don’t feel too bad. This UFA goalie crop isn’t anywhere near as good as it will be next year, but between Turco, Nabokov, Mason and Theodore we should be able to get a goalie that has #1 experience.
Also, a Sharks fan that was here was asked whether Nabokov could go to the KHL, his response
Doubtful. Nabby wants his name on the cup.
He’s mentioned that more than once. Also, while the salaries are great (er…borderline insane), level of play in the KHL is lower,as is the prestige—stepping backwards isn’t something he’s into.
If he wants to win a cup, is there a better place than Philadelphia?
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
Yeah, I just hope it’s a matter of him having to come to terms with what his market value is and just accepting a hopefully cap-friendly deal. Ideally, no more than 4.5 million a season and no more than 2-3 years. If he wants to win, he will give w/e Homer gives him. We might just have to wait him out and then we should be able to get a great deal on him.
by historywillbemade on Jun 29, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I was glad to read that for 2 reasons
a) it makes Philly the most attractive and likely spot for him
b)I don’t want a goalie who isn’t passionate about not wanting the Cup, and who isn’t willing to sacrifice a bit to earn it!
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jun 29, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I read somewhere (maybe even here?) that KHL isn’t an attractive option because of the travel — certainly nothing like taking a charter flight to the next game. Nabby’s signing in the NHL, and if he wants to win, Philly’s his main destination. But he won’t get a contract anywhere near $6M/season in the NHL, no matter what.
by memphisbrando on Jun 29, 2010 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't discount the Reese factor
In my opinion, one of the main reasons Leights was so good in net was Jeff Reese’s coaching. He seemed to get Boosh and Rayzor on track, too. Maybe he can do the same with Backlund or another goalie signee. Reese’s role in helping the Flyers make it through last season is overlooked and under appreciated.
by memphisbrando on Jun 29, 2010 9:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think we really need a top goalie coach in the AHL
We’re going to have a line of guys come through there. Ideally (but not likely) each one of them will graduate from AHL level to be an NHL caliber backup/starter, which means that they’ll either be trade value or our ‘goalie of the future’ (GotF). If we can get someone in there to make them be studs at that level and hone their game properly, then it may be worth it in the future, even if it’s as part of trades. At this stage we’ve got Morrisson, Riopel, Bobrovsky, Kovar, Eriksson and Backlund right off the top of my head with DeSerres being let go despite a decent season with Brandon.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 29, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m honestly impressed you remembered Kovar.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 29, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m thoroughly confused by the whole DeSerres situation, and not just by the fact that we didn’t decide to retain him… I’ve read reports that he was supposed to re-enter the draft, but then he wasn’t selected; I know that makes him a UFA and any team can try to sign him, but I’m surprised no one used a late round pick to just put him into their system without having to commit to an actual AHL or entry-level contract. I realize he has a bit of a history of inconsistency, but I can’t help wondering if there’s some piece of information the NHL scouts know that we don’t.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 29, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Reports that he can re-enter the draft? I’d love to see those.
I know the Brandon blog I’ve been reading said he can go back to Brandon (which is truly remarkable) but I didn’t see any of that.
I’m just sad because I’ve grown to like the kid a lot, mainly due to actually speaking with him. But he did go 18-1-1 at one point this past year. Yes, his team was pretty good, and yes I’m citing wins/losses, but that’s nothing to scoff at.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 30, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
They’re not exactly cited reports, but it popped up in an awful lot of places; including the comments section of the original article from Luber’s lounge reporting that we didn’t give him an offer. Some examples of things I saw today in my massive effort of googling to figure this out:
Example 1:
The Philadelphia Flyers goaltender Jacob De Serres will re-enter the 2010 NHL Entry DraftExample 2:
MOVEMENTS & INJURIESExample 3:
6/01/2010 Unsigned; will re-enter the 2010 NHL Entry Draft.
Philadelphia goaltending prospect Jacob De Serres was not signed and he will go back into the draft.Last the original article from Luber’s Lounge, with the comment at the bottom:
He was a third-round pick in 2008 and is coming off a season in which he went 25-8-2 for Brandon and Seattle of the WHL. My guess is that the Flyers wanted him signed for third-round money, and he felt his win/loss performance warranted better than that. Just a guess.
De Serres would re-enter the draft but would become a UFA if he is not selected.Not all the most reliable sources, but this is just the ones I was able to find again relatively quickly. I saw that statement in a lot of places today.
The only exception to this for ‘08 picks would be if they are 1989-born players.
However, I would say it’s doubtful an NHL team would use a pick on De Serres when they could sign him as a UFA the day after the draft.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 30, 2010 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Clicking on Example 2 you’ll see his goalie stats, which regressed since the time we drafted him. in 2008, he was the number 6 ranked goalie prospect and we took him in the third round. (Cite: his NHL prospect draft card from 08)
Those stats don’t look all that great, despite his record his stats haven’t looked anything like 2007-08:
(I’m going to do the highlights by hand because blockquoting a table just looks terrible)
Season / Team / GP / Record / GAA / SV%
2009-10 / Bra / 32 / 25-5-2 / 2.70 / .905
2009-10 / Sea / 3 / 0-3-0 / 5.00 / .851
2009-10 / Totals / 35 / 25-8-2 / 2.91 / .899
2008-09 / Sea / 32 / 11-16-0 / 3.41 / .883
2007-08 / Sea / 34 / 20-11-1 / 2.28 / .922 ** This was his draft year
2006-07 / Sea / 20/ 7-9-2 / 2.79 / .900
2005-06 / Sea / 3 / 3-0-0 / 2.79 / .903
That said, I was still all for keeping the kid, even if it meant an AHL contract the same way we did for Riopel last year. Then he still could have been sent back to Juniors, but we got to hang onto him longer.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 30, 2010 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions
He certainly fell off the wagon. I hear that is the deal with young goalies anyway. Get a whole bunch of them and hope one of them turns out OK.
New Zealand's 4th best Philadelphia Flyers fan
I’m still liking Riopel’s stats. He followed up his 08-09 GAA with Moncton of 2.05 with a 2.06 GAA in 09-10. Moncton is a strong team (they won the Q) with defenders including guys like Brandon Gormley, but those numbers are still insane and must reflect the quality of the goaltender to some extent, considering he’s now put them up over multiple seasons. His performance in the Memorial Cup wasn’t anything to write home about though, especially his third period performance against the Calgary Hitmen, when they put up 4 goals on 13 shots to end up winning 5-4.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 30, 2010 4:35 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s probably worth mentioning as a disclaimer that Riopel is older than DeSerres and was drafted at 20 as opposed to 18; and Riopel went undrafted the first time; so in a way we are comparing players who weren’t in the same place developmentally at the time they were drafted.
Riopel’s stats, to open them up for discussion:
Season / Team / GP / Record / GAA / SV%
2009-10 / Adk (AHL) / 10 / 4-6-0 / 3.35 / .893
2009-10 / Monc (Q) / 25 / 19-5-0 / 2.06/ .918
2008-09 / Monc (Q) / 59 / 43-15-0 / 2.01 / .931 ** This is his draft year
2007-08 / Monc (Q) / 47 / 15-29-0 / 3.04 / .910
2006-07 / Monc (Q) / 37 / 17-12-0 / 3.35 / .894
Note that in 2006-07 the first year we see for Riopel, Nic is 17 at the start of the season. Our stats for DeSerres go back as far as him being 15 in 2005-06. We see Riopel have his career year when he’s 19, while we see DeSerres have his at 17. It can be argued on how much of a factor that really is, but I don’t think the discussion is complete without adding that information.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 30, 2010 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, but he did start to turn it around this year, which is why I’m surprised no one just dumped him back into their farm system with a late pick to snag his rights just in case he makes a resurgence. Having a great year at 17 and then rough ones at 18 and 19 can sometimes be attributed to simple things like growing 6 inches and not really having a good awareness of yourself anymore, or other similar development issues. Obviously I don’t know the real story, but I would think NHL teams would rather watch him for one more year and see if he keeps it together, rather than sign him as a UFA and actually commit money. And I do think it’s too early to see the league give up on him entirely.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 30, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I hope he finds a team somewhere. Good work with the numbers.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 30, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Love it
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
by PatterPoet95 on Jun 29, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
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| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
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82 | 48 | 27 | 7 | 103 |
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82 | 47 | 28 | 7 | 101 |
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Philadelphia
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Fri 09/24 | 7:00 PM EDT |
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Sat 09/25 | 8:00 PM EDT |
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