Flyers dig deep hole, can't climb out in frustrating Stanley Cup Final Game 5 loss
by Travis Hughes on Jun 6, 2010 11:55 PM EDT
in 2010 NHL Playoffs
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[Box Score] - [Wire Recap] - [SBN Game Page] - [Chicago Reaction]
[Corsi and Fenwick] - [Head-to-Head TOI] - [EV Faceoffs] - [Shift Charts]
Coming back from 0-3 holes has been a specialty of the Flyers this postseason, but this time around, that hole just continued to grow and grow and grow. The orange and black fought back several times, but each time, the Blackhawks had an answer. When the clock ticked to zero, it was the three goal hole that wound up being the final result.
But despite the fact that the Flyers played an atrocious first period, they still had a chance in this game in the final five minutes. That says a lot about this team and their character, and it also says a lot about the Blackhawks. They have no killer instinct. Despite five separate three goal leads, Chicago never had this game solidified until there were two minutes, five seconds left.
It's been a long, up-and-down season for these Flyers, and quite honestly, with the way the script has gone, we should've expected this. We should have expected this thing to come all the way down to the wire like this, and we should completely expect them to come out roaring when the puck drops in Game 6 back on friendly turf.
This series isn't over. This season isn't over. The Flyers have life, and there's no reason to quit just yet. A few notes after the jump, as well as a few questions with answers and the comment of the night.
- The officiating was a hot topic of discussion tonight, but while it was not good in any sense of the word (just ask Danny Briere's eye), it didn't determine the game tonight. Perhaps it could've determined the game if the Flyers got the four (or even five) minutes they should have in the third on the Briere high stick, but in the end, they shouldn't have needed a late power play to get themselves back in the game. They dug themselves a hole, and the officials didn't even supply the shovels.
- Briere returned to the ice just minutes after taking Duncan Keith's stick to his eye in the third period, but according to CSN's Sarah Baicker, "he's in such bad shape he can't talk to the media" after the game tonight.
- Chris Pronger had an absolutely terrible game, and as a result, the worship of Dustin Byfuglien begins. I mean, think about it. Byfuglien murders Pronger in the corner, but that hit is just a bump if Pronger is on his game. Byfuglien scores a dirty goal in the crease, but that's not a goal if Pronger isn't in the box for hooking. Number 20 has to have a bad game every series, it seems, but if you think he won't be back in full force come Game 6, you're highly mistaken. With that, Byfuglien will be frustrated once again. Book it.
- The home team has won every game of the Cup Final just three times ever. It happened last in 2003, when the Devils beat the Ducks in seven games. It also happened in 1955 and 1965.
- This Final is unfolding in very similar fashion to last years'. A Pennsylvania team loses the first two games on the road to a team in the Central Division. They come back to the Keystone State, win two games at home, before traveling back to West to get embarrassed in Game 5. That certain PA-based team would win two close games to end the series and win the Cup.
- The decision to pull Michael Leighton is not an indictment on his play if you ask me, although when asked, Peter Laviolette simply responded "we weren't good in the first period tonight." To me, that says, "we were bad and we needed a shakeup." Much like in Game 1, it's tough to blame one player on this loss. It was a team effort.
- On the same subject, Laviolette said he's not sure who is starting Game 6. Like the Post Game Live crew on CSN, I'd find it shocking if Brian Boucher started the game.
Questions with Answers
- Can the Flyers jump out to a hot start, or do they try to weather the early storm a bit instead? Too much weather.
- Jeff Carter wound up with a goal the other night on an empty net try. He's had his looks, along with the rest of the Flyers top line, in the last few games. Can the top line get on the board some more? Not really.
- The Blackhawks took a lot of stupid penalties in Game 4, mostly due to frustration. Will the Flyers goad them into some more of them? Nope.
- Chris Pronger breaks that record tonight, right? Sigh.
- Michael Leighton had his best game of the Final on Friday. He keeps it up tonight, no? Double sigh.
Comment of the Night
I will never drink Amstel Light again.
>> The DTrain
It's gonna be a long three days.
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Never understood pulling the goalie to shake the team up.
What is that all about? If the goalie’s playing well, you leave him in, if he’s playing poorly, you give him the hook. How does pulling the goalie tell the skaters that they’re the ones responsible for the deficit? To me, that canard was made up to make goalies feel better about getting yanked when they give up a few goals.
I know most of ya’ll are not Leighton’s fans but he did not deserve the hook tonight. This team played horrible in front of him. Booooosh goes in, team plays better and Booooosh still lets in 2 soft goals. And he did not get the hook. I just do not believe this was a good move and maybe the beginnning of the end of the run for our beloved Flyers. I have rarely disagreed with moves by the coach this year but I think this may haunt us all summer. I hope I am completely wrong……..
Regardless of whether pulling Leighton was a good decision, you don’t pull your backup and re-insert your starter in game 6 of the Stanley Cup Final unless the backup lets in four goals in his first four shots faced.
Right. Boosh let up one or two softies, but at the same time, he did stop a few shots that probably would’ve gone in on Leighton. The change wasn’t a game changer, and it won’t be a series changer either: Leighton will start in game 6, I’m almost positive about that. It’ll be the right call too, I think.
And for what it’s worth, I’m more of a Boosh guy than I am a Leighton guy, but I also don’t think Leighton should’ve gotten pulled tonight either. I said that after the first, and I’m saying it again now. Hindsight hasn’t changed a thing there for me.
Agreed. A couple of the goals Leights gave up, particularly the one that went in off his skate, weren’t unstoppable goals where he had no chance either. Neither goalie had a stellar night. I thought the switch was a message sending move, not a way of pinning all the blame for the first period on Leighton. I expect Leights to start Game 6, though.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jun 7, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I trust Lavy,
Some goals were a bit week, others were not his fault at all
I supported his decision to take him out for the same reasons stated above,…plus
Leighton needs keep his emotional, and mental health as sharp as posable
I dont believe for a second Boosh is complexly healthy
I fully believe Leighton will start
I think Lavy knows the Press needs something to talk about until the puck drops on..(gulp) 70+ hours from now
Keeping this decision a secret for now lets the media run around in circles ,
while he gets into the Flyers heads and gets them ready for Game six
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jun 7, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
gotta be boucher
I can’t believe people on this site are actually saying that it should be Leighton. Leighton has been shaky, at best, all series. The bank-in goal off his skate was a joke. Any NHL goalie makes that save. And does anyone remember that shot from the blueline he bobbled, and almost botched after the third CHI goal? The third goal, by Versteeg, should have been saved as well. I’m not making excuses for the skaters in the first period, they were unbelievably bad, but it very well could have been 1-0 after the first. The saves Leighton made were mostly shot directly into his chest. I’ve lost all confidence in him completelely. He gives me a heart attack on each and every shot on goal. Boucher at least makes the saves he should. I think people have a very selective memory because at least two or three goals would have gone in during the second if Leighton was in. Boucher might not be great, but he is at least steady. I know Leighton had the three SO’s, but that was against the joke Habs. As I said, Boucher might not be great but he makes all the saves he should, and even then some. This game would have been an outright embarrassment if Boucher hadn’t come in. Leighton can’t get it done. If he starts the next two games we’re absolutely done
right...
because it is brian boucher who is undefeated on home ice, oh wait, i believe that is michael leighton, the same joke habs that beat the capitals and the penguins? right, keep telling yourself these things, leighton gets the start at home
look, I loved every bit of the Habs series but we all know that they were an offensively challenged team. When Gomez, and Gionta are two of your three best scoring threats there is a serious problem. The hawks are much more powerful than the Habs and I think Boucher is the better option. Can you seriously tell me that Leighton doesnt make you shit your pants every time the Hawks have a decent scoring chance? I feel much better when Boucher is in net. I’m praying that Laviolette doesn’t go back to Leighton
Habs offensively challenged, Camelleri still leads the playoffs in goal scoring and hasn’t played in two weeks. Micheal Leighton has been insane at home and will start the game. He is the only reason why were have gotten this far. If Boucher game in a locked down the game maybe he would get the start but he also gave up 3 goals, and once again gets the loss.
Leighton in on Wednesday I’m sure.
They just need to stay the hell away from the Rink tomorrow and forget about this one.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
They just need to stay the hell away from the Rink tomorrow and forget about this one.
So did Laviolette practiced them on Sat. after Friday’s game?
Leighton is undefeated at home
Gotta ride that I guess
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 7, 2010 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions
They have no killer instinct.
Who do they think they are, an Eddie Jordan team?
by Ben Feldman on Jun 7, 2010 12:08 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Pronger has to play well
Here’s hoping it is a “bad game” and not “accumulated exhaustion”. Even defending on the EN goal, he did not look sharp. Others can mess up (like, for example, Carter) but without Pronger playing all-world we will get run over.
Maybe getting an extra day off will help him.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
The terrible first period and Richards/Leino’s consecutive failures to jam a puck into an open net on the PP ultimately did this team in tonight. But I agree with pretty much everything Travis said. We should have seen this coming from a mile away, and theres no reason to give up hope. Didn’t agree with the decision to pull Leighton but thats old news at this point.
This team hasn’t done it the easy way all season. No reason to think they would have done so tonight. Theyve met challenge after challenge and proven themselves time and time again all season. Now they just have one more test to pass. If they can beat this Chicago team two more times they are the rightful owners of the cup. if not, well the blackhawks were just a little better than us this year. This team has consistently proven themselves all spring. My homerism says theres no reason to think that will change over the next week
I am still oddly very confident about the Flyers in this series. We just got our asses handed to us, yet I feel like we are more than capable of winning this thing. I’ve never stopped believing in this team, but I almost feel like I am too confident. Am I the only one here?
Proudly supporting a Flyers team with "no honor."
*only one here that feels that?
/Hit post too soon
//I know I am not the only person currently reading this blog…….
Proudly supporting a Flyers team with "no honor."
There’s actually 44 people online right now. Crazy, right?
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by Travis Hughes on Jun 7, 2010 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
And yet no one is commenting…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
because not all of us that are up are Flyers fans and we figure you’d rather be left alone.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 7, 2010 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know what to say that's already been said
Getting that old sinking feeling again.
Who do you start for Game 6? Did the injury to Leighton really do him in last night?
Leighton was great in 3 and 4. Defense let both goalies down tonight. Leights is the starter. No question.
An Ohio fan of the Philadelphia Flyers, Carolina Panthers, Oakland A's, and Philadelphia 76ers. Strange? Yes. Very.
by chillicothe20 on Jun 7, 2010 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know how you can possibly trust Leighton at this point. The second and third goals should have been saved, no excuses. Boucher came in and gave us a chance. Boucher didnt have a chance on any of the goals he gave up. The Kane goal was an outright defensive disgrace by Briere that probably cost us the game. The Byfuglien goal was a one-timer he had no chance on (see the missed opputunities by Richards and Leino), and the third goal was a great shot in which Sharp had a wide open lane to skate directly into a great scoring area. People may say that Leighton played well the first ten minutes, but let’s be real, the Hawks shot directly into his body on most of those chances. They’re the only saves he’s made this series. Boucher has been way better this postseason. I’m not saying Boucher is great, or can win a game by himself, but he at least doesn’t give you a heart attack every shot on goal.
Just so you know, when an opposing player shoots right into the body/chest of a goaltender, it’s usually a sign that the goalie is having a strong game positionally, and getting square to the shooter consistently. I’m not saying who had the better game, just trying to give a little insight to your argument that seems to be that Leights only stops what is shot directly into him.
I agree on the second goal, that Leighton made an error, but that third goal was screened perfectly. It’s “on” Leighton in the sense that nobody on the defense made a mistake, but there’s no way he had line of sight on the shooter when the puck was released. That was a blind luck play, and his luck was bad on that shot.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
And the second goal bounced right back in front of the net. It should have gone around the other side but shit happens.
Yeah, but I still think Leighton misplayed it by not sealing off the post. It looked to me like he expected the puck to go around the other side and lost track of the play.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Watching the replay, he deflected the puck into the corner, straight to Bolland. It wasn’t going to go around the other side at all. He probably didn’t know Bolland was there – I hope he didn’t anyway – but Leighton should have gotten the primary assist.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s almost like Game 3 against Montreal. The necessary kick in the pants to win a few straight games.
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by Travis Hughes on Jun 7, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I hold the same opinion
I truly have confidence in the teams ability to physically, mentally, and emotionally bounce back and play their best game in Philly.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
+1
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 7, 2010 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmm…that’s a good point. We were pretty lazy in Games 2 and 3 against Montreal, but Leighton managed to steal Game 2 for us, further encouraging our bad play. Game 3 was the wake-up call, and we responded. I was hoping that Game 2 was the wake-up call for us in this series, because we improved so dramatically between the 2nd and 3rd periods. But last night was even more of a slap in the face. (Or “sack tap,” which the kids are apparently into these days) Man, I hope we can fight back once again….
I am not worried. We looked GREAT in Philly before, and we can in Gm 6. We probably had our best chances to steal the necessary game in Chicago in 1 and 2, but 7 would be a balls-to-the-wall free-for-all that we could win. I have every confidence we can force a gm 7.
An Ohio fan of the Philadelphia Flyers, Carolina Panthers, Oakland A's, and Philadelphia 76ers. Strange? Yes. Very.
by chillicothe20 on Jun 7, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I am in the same boat with you. I think the Flyers will come out and play their hearts out in Game 6, and you are right, should the Flyers force Game 7, it will be completely balls-to-the-wall, anything can happen, past trends be damned where there will be 1 winner, and 1 heartbroken loser.
Proudly supporting a Flyers team with "no honor."
History Would Be Made
If we fail then the whole world would fall into the (UC) abyss of a new dark age..
Let us brace ourselves to our duty, And if the NHL Empire shall last a thousand years, people will still say “this was their finest hour”.
/churchillian
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
Things I find interesting:
The Flyers first D-pairing was a combined minus-8. Chris Pronger was a minus-5, and in the box for another Hawks goal.
The Flyers third D-pairing was a combined plus-3. Lukas Krajicek had an assist and was a plus-2 in 9:07 of ice time.
Oskars Bartulis only played 1:58
Blair Betts, Ian Lapperiere, and Darroll Power all had positive Corsi and Fenwick scores
Claude Giroux was a minus-4
Blair Betts won 6 of 7 defensive zone draws
Mike Richards won 1 of 7 defensive zone draws, but 3 of 4 offensive zone draws
Both Briere and Giroux finished 33% or worse in the faceoff dot.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 12:57 AM EDT reply actions
Geoff, what are Richards face off numbers like in the defensive zone throughout the playoffs? And how do they compare to the other guys who take the draw?
Go Go Gadget Gagne
What if Broad Street Didn't Fight Back? History HAS been made. 5-7-10
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
That I do not know. The NHL publishes that data game-by-game but doesn’t compile it. Another one of the NHL stats mysteries.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Usually I am not a fan of the extra day off, and while it will certainly be torture on us fans, I see this as a positive for the Flyers. They have an extra day off, and thus an extra day to forget about Game 5, think about what they need to do strategically in Game 6, and just have a much-needed all-around regrouping and refocusing.
Proudly supporting a Flyers team with "no honor."
Agree. But the reason I did not reply to your earlier “very confident” post is that “it depends” on whether (1) Pronger can bounce back (2) Richie is not hiding an injury (3) Briere is not “really” hurt. The other stuff (like inability to pass, shoot and backcheck at points) can be fixed by Lavvy.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
I will be tortured until Wed, but I have exams to take between now and then. I agree the off day should help us. It slows Chicago’s momentum, and it gives us another day to make the necessary adjustments.
An Ohio fan of the Philadelphia Flyers, Carolina Panthers, Oakland A's, and Philadelphia 76ers. Strange? Yes. Very.
So I freely admit my bias
but I just watched all the goals Boucher gave up again, and I’m failing to see a weak goal. The first goal is clearly on Briere and/or the defenseman he was not covering for. The second goal was Byfuglien standing alone at the top of the crease on a play where every Blackhawk touched the puck. Now, here’s the third goal:
At that point – you can’t tell – the puck is either already in the net or careening off the post. First, my arguments:
- It’s a three-on-two with Carle back and Pronger backchecking
- Patrick Sharp is a sniper and he sniped a corner. He hit the freakin’ post after all.
- He’s in a ridiculously good scoring position, just above the faceoff dot in the slot.
- Boucher isn’t out of position. If he moves to his right, the far corner is wide open. His right skate is at the edge of the crease, partially to the outside of the near post. If this isn’t square to the shooter, it’s damn close.
But, as I’m not completely blinded by my love for the man, I see a few things that contribute to the argument that it’s weak:
- He doesn’t move a whole hell of a lot. I think this is mainly reaction time based on the proximity of Sharp and the speed of the shot, but it certainly looks bad in real-time.
- He isn’t out of his net challenging the shooter. Again, I think this is mainly because the entire defense backed in so he had to guard against Kane taking the shot, and he wasn’t able to get out farther before Sharp released.
- He didn’t drop to the butterfly. I threw this in because it’s just crap. No way does he stop that shot if he’s in the butterfly.
Now, I’m not opposed to being convinced otherwise, but I fail to see how this is a “weak goal”. Anybody want to counter?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
No weak
It was a 3-2. Kane is carrying the puck in, with an off winger(Bolland I believe), and trailer. Kane and Sharp are snipers
Boucher moves out, Kane keeps the Puck and Shoots-Scores
Boucher moves to block Kane (does here) drops back to Shooter-Scores quick wrister one timer
Boucher moves left Kane or Sharp shoot-score
D cover Kane, Sharp or Bolland Free
D cover slot and weak side Kane and Shooter free
D cover Kane and Slot Bolland free on weak side
It was a well setup 3-2. Triangle of forwards creating 2 passing lanes, and three shooting lanes for Defense man to cover outside stick and body reach or concede a shot/pass. The execution was good. Kane drew Boucher into the goal and right, Kane passed it quickly back to Sharp while Boucher is moving back to his left to cover as much net as normal, Sharp places the shot opposite direction of movement in the high corner. If Boucher does not move, Sharp has 1/3 of the far side of the net open.
It was high probability goal based on the setup, and not a weak goal given up by Boucher.
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
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by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 7, 2010 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed
boucher has to start game 6. if not, we’re done. I admire and appreciate everything Leighton has done for us this season,postseason but he has been horriblly shaky the entire finals. Even the most biased Leighton fan has to admit that he has gotten etremely lucky on alot of CHI chances this series, ie the chance in game 2 where the puck was literally sitting on top of his left pad and the Hawks were trying to ram it in and he had no idea where it was. If anyone tells you they don’t have a stroke/heart attack/aneurysm everytime the Hawks take a shot on Leighton they’re lying to you. It’s torture with him in goal. At least Boucher makes the steady saves
I think all of his goals are weak cause all season you can tell except for that last game of the season that they just don’t have great confidence in him he knows it that is why they always find the back of the net. I really felt like that in the Boston series. I hoestly feel Niemi isn’t great he left in four in a game where his team was being able to play any way they wanted. If we stuck with Leights we would have won.
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
by Christopher A on Jun 7, 2010 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
The only goal I am critical of was the Sharp goal but that is not weak Sharp is a good scorer. The only thing you could argue was the D took away the passes and gave Boosh a clear look at it and was really set to make a save. But one on one with Sharp is not something you want to give up. Either way though the Flyers opened it up to try to get back in the game and that is what happens. They got back in the game but in doing so gave up too many chances the other way. Boosh still gets the loss and after every game Leighton has gotten pulled he played extremely well.
Was that to me?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe it was to that blomsasn1tch guy. But that’s just my guess.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
Ok, I wasn’t sure.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah not you, you didn’t feel the need to repost basically the same thing 3 times last night like blomsasn1tch. It was a bit of overkill and PhilForever was totally justified with calling it out in my mind
yeah...sorry
totally was directed at blomsasn1tch, sorry about the confusion, the guy was just ridiculous
Just my thoughts on Game 5
1. The entire team played an awful game tonight. I didnt see a single player with a good effort out there. Particularly concerning to me, was Carter who looks completely lost. He short-circuits attacks constantly by shooting from retarded distances/angles, and 90% of the time it goes directly into the D-mans skate into the corner for a loss of possession. Also, Giroux looked terrible. It seemed like he had absolutely no presence in the offensive zone anid finished with a -4.
2. I’ve already posted my thoughts on Leighton/Boucher, so i wont put you throught that again.
3. To any Hawks fan who bitched about calls this entire series-stop it. I hate when people complain about calls but i thought that at least two HORRIBLE calls killed the flyers tonight. The call on Pronger was absolutely brutal. The Flyers had cut it to a two goal lead, and were carrying play and they call him on a “hook” in which his stick basically touched Kane’s body for a total of .3 seconds. That was an absolute killer. And then, the most attrocious non-call I have seen in a long time. How the hell doesn’t someone see Briere get wacked in the face like that? That should have been a 5 minute major with the chance to turn the whole game around. Attrocious. I’m really worried that Briere’s eye might swell up bad enough that he won’t even be able to play in game 6. He already was developing a black eye 10 minutes after it happened.
4. Even after all this I have an odd optimism coming out of this game. The Flyers played as terribly as the possibly could have and they were still in it in the 3rd period, and if those two calls hadn’t been botched it might have been different. I think there is a real lesson to be learned from this huge road game that can really help if this gets to game 7. If they win game 6 I feel pretty good about our chances. Remember, Pitt lost game 5 5-0 last year
I have no clue
how Keith didn’t end up with a penalty on Briere. On the Pronger hook, I thought it was justified while watching it at real speed. You Flyers’ fans probably feel the same as Hawks’ fans did after Game 1. It might be because I’m watching with more interest but this has been one of the worse officiated series I’ve seen in quite awhile.
Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'Sir' without adding, 'You're making a scene."
Yeah, I actually thought the Pronger hook was probably the right call. Didn’t like it at first, but when I saw the replay, it probably needed to be called. I’ll freely admit that game 1 was officiated in the Flyers’ favor, and the officiating had gone back and forth since then (equally terrible), but last night was the worst game of the series, as far as that’s concerned. Not that that’s what caused us to lose, most of us will admit that as well…
The “hook” didn’t seem to effect Kane at all, he did lose speed, stumple fall or anything and he still manage to get a shot off. I thought that call was weak. I think the media got in the officials head with all their complaining about Pronger. But like everyone else said stuff was missed on both sides and some weak calls on both sides. The Briere none call was though especially after the Hawks got a 5 on 3 in game 4 to give them a shot at the dramatic comeback I thought we would get the same thing there.
Nah, the hook didn’t effect Kane, not one bit. But the stick was between his arm and body, and he spun, which is all anyone would have needed to do to sell that call with a ref watching. I’m pretty sure they would have even called that on Chicago last night, had they done it to a Flyer.
That being said, I also think the complaining about the Flyers play made its way into the officials heads. The calls were inconsistent all night, in Chicago’s favor, and it was more biased than any game of the series. We need to play a million times better Wednesday night, obviously, but it’d be nice to have consistent officiating for once in this series. Nothing but a dream, I know…
Officiating has been bad
But you really can’t tell people to stop complaining about calls and then say that it was missed calls that killed the Flyers tonight. The 1st period is what killed the Flyers tonight. That non-call on Briere was brutal, but they missed the one to Campbell before that.
The Pronger hook was pretty weak, but you knew it was coming with all the borderline stuff he does. He just so happened to get his stick up on Kane, and superstars always get the benefit of the doubt.
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by HungryHungryPanda on Jun 7, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
“you really can’t tell people to stop complaining about calls and then say that it was missed calls that killed the Flyers tonight”
+1
Officiating has been bad all around, both teams have benefited from weak calls or gotten away with stuff at some point. Let’s just agree we all hate the refs, call it even, and move on. Done.
"But you really can’t tell people to stop complaining about calls and then say that it was missed calls that killed the Flyers tonight."
This, exactly. Officiating has been atrocious for both sides, let’s face this fact. At least none of us are saying it’s a conspiracy or anything. It’s just incompetence.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 7, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
or
we’re all just equal-opportunity lovers of tin foil
by puppetmasterp on Jun 7, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I honestly thought that Brier’s face wound was caused by the puck, not Keith’s stick. Even on the replays.
Granted, I had been drinking and have a crappy tv, but I can see how the refs could’ve missed it at full speed. But I swear the refs have senioritis or something.
Watch it with the jinxing!
Time for some thrillin' heroics!
by shinkicker on Jun 7, 2010 10:57 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
On the bright side
We are 4-0 in must-win games. Given that, I think this is right where we want to be.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 7, 2010 4:12 AM EDT reply actions
but the Hawks
are 2-0 in potential Game 6 road clinchers this post-season
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
never mind the fact that 4>2 is colored by comparing games to series
thanks, perspective! :P
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 7, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe it is also games to games, but no matter, it’s completely meaningless anyway. Everyone knows the Blackhawks have been good on the road, and the Flyers are about as resilient a team there is; but someone has to lose, and someone has to win. No sense coming here and raining on our optimism, which was the whole point anyway, finding things to stay positive about moving in to game 6, even if they are trivial.
it was tongue-in-cheek, hence the smiley
there are so many ways to look at the way this series has gone, although I’m surprised no one has yet protested being compared to the Cup Finalists last year. WE HATE THOSE TEAMS.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 7, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
This just in...
Both Chicago and Philadelphia are 3-0 in playoff series this year!
What are the odds? :-p
they'll never lose this series now!
wait, what?
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 7, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Bingo.
Game 7 goes to infinite overtimes. They’ll still be playing when the next season starts in October.
Unfortunately it will be shunted to the Versus alternate channel in favor of NBC late night and so we’ll never know who wins.
Those playoff beards
May grow very long in the course of game 7
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 7, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
A few random thoughts…
At first, I didn’t like having the extra day to wait for game 6, but now I think it will help those who got dinged up tonight (Hartnell, Briere, Richards, etc. – I think it will even help Carter).
We won’t have as poor a start to a game as we did tonight for the rest of the series – we simply won’t. I always thought that this game was more of a must-win for Chicago – it was good for either team to win this game (obviously), but, if we had won it, we would have closed out the series for sure in game 6. Chicago had to have this game to have a chance to win; I’m completely confident we’ll get game 6, and I like our chances in game 7.
I don’t want enter the whole goaltender debate, but I’d be shocked if Leighton didn’t start in game 6. A couple of the goals that went in on him weren’t stoppable; those goals were simply from a team flying around the offensive zone and a defense not keeping up with them. The hole at the beginning was ultimately preserved through the course of the game. The defense’s pride in their own play and Lavvy giving them a good chewing out will make them better the rest of the way.
In every series, we have had one game per series where we just didn’t play a good 60 minutes of hockey (game 2 vs. NJ (although that wasn’t a bad game either), game 3 vs. BOS (again, more mediocre than bad, but still our worst game that series), and game 3 vs. MON (a true butt-kicking that most resembled game 5 of this series). Every time we responded with great games (yes, “games” – plural) afterward. I’m expecting the same in the last two of this series. One silver lining, comparing this game to the bad Montreal game, is that they were able to score. You might say, “Big deal”, but it is – it showed that they were willing to fight until the end. Yes, Gagne’s goal didn’t help them get on top or to force overtime, but it showed that they are determined to get goals regardless of the score. They won’t fall this far behind again – that determination will matter in the last two games.
So, rest up, keep the faith, look forward to Wednesday night, and keep your calendar open on Friday night – you will be busy watching a SCF game 7 live on the TV or computer.
Go Flyers.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 7, 2010 4:50 AM EDT reply actions
P.S.
Travis – very good write-up up top too. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 7, 2010 4:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks O&B
That’s the calming voice of reason I really needed this morning. I was really furious last night. Threw my beloved Hextall jersey in the corner in the final minute and left it there in a heap until this morning. Didn’t speak a single word for the rest of the night, and my wife knew to leave me alone. Even woke up in a bad mood this morning, and my entire body aches. I was frustrated after Game 2 (even after we bounced back in the 3rd period), but last night really cut me deep.
You’re right though, we have had a bad game in each series and each time it acted as a catalyst to spark us on to multiple brilliant performances. I expected Chicago to fight back and take Game 5, and so they did. As usual, in true Philly style, we’re just gonna have to do this the hard way.
And I’m with you, all arguments about relative difficulty of each goal aside, I think we’ve gotta go with Leighton. It’s just a confidence thing. If we switch goalies now, it says we’re panicking and unsure what to do. Putting Leights in is ballsy, it says we’re confident he’s our guy, and the team is gonna step up and protect him. Nothing against Boosh, he’s done his fair share, but I think playing Leighton is psychologically the right thing to do.
You're quite welcome! :)
Joy shared is doubled; sorrow shared is halved, as the old expression goes. It’s one of the nice thing about blogs (when used properly, that is).
There WILL be a game 7 this year, and I like our chances in it. :)
GO FLYERS!!!!
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 7, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
ugh
That was a horrible game, start to finish. I was really hoping the Flyers would’ve showed up after the momentum built up from Games 3 & 4, but just like the rest of their season, they’ll have to do this the hard way. Can’t wait til Wednesday!!
I wish I could forget about this game. Haven’t been successful yet so far. Damn. Sleeping only for about 5 hours and now being forced to studying? Blehk. Anyway… I was wondering…
Do you think Lavy makes some changes coming Game 6? In the lines or the lineup.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
Im not expecting any major changes
We will have home ice so we will get to put our players on the ice, and always get the match ups we want.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
I think home ice is an advantage for the Flyers not b/c Lavy gets what he wants with match ups, but more so b/c Q goes apesh*t with match ups and seems to do more harm then good. Either way, advantage Flyers.
i have not seen matchups against the Hawks be that effective on the road
until this series. Lavy really knows what he’s doing there, must give credit.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 7, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Few thoughts
Leighton starts, he played really well at the start and no one helped him out, did Boosh even flinch on the Sharp wristshot?
Bounces really went Hawks way
Calls really went Hawks way
To say the entire team played bad so to deny the awesomeness that is Leino, sorry he wasn’t perfect, see Gagne goal
Should Carcillo have started last night and should he start Wednesday for a physical presence?
Thank God we have 2 days off
Leino was by far our best player last night. Whatever he’s doing, I hope it rubs off on the rest of the team.
Leino in general
I have to admit I didn’t give Leino ANY respect at all as a player coming into this series. And he’s impressed the hell out of me over the course of the series, i was just wrong about him i think. he may not have had his best night, but i still think he played solidly in comparison to the rest of the team.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 7, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Should Carcillo have started last night and should he start Wednesday for a physical presence?
Thank God we have 2 days off
Completely agree on the second point.
I think that JVR earned the right to stay in the line-up last night. Car Bomb can go off positively and negatively – we can’t afford his potential downside, IMHO.
However, it may be a moot point – if Briere and/or Hartnell can’t play, he’ll most likely be in.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 7, 2010 8:49 AM EDT reply actions
Even though I LOVE Carci, I really do, I’d rather not see him in the lineup for Game 6. I’m too scared that having him on the ice would only lead to too many minutes spent short-handed. Yes, for sure he can draw retaliation penalties and get under people’s skin but I feel like he’d be trying too hard to hit anything and anyone and he’d probably get another call for completely clean hit, as we saw it in Game 2 (? – not 100% sure there). There’s a high possibility of reputation calls.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
Carcillo
for sure. He can get under the Hawks skin and perhaps draw some dumb penalties. The Hawks will be tight in game 6 because they have heard the rumblings about no killer instinct. A guy like Carcillo can get at them and get them to make some stupid decision.
hmmm ...
Tough call. I’m more concerned about the complete lack of performance that Carcillo put in during his last game – he looked completely lost. His first game in the Finals he brought his game, but then somehow he was just skating around in Game three. If injury forces Lavvy’s hand, then having Carcillo becomes inevitable, but otherwise I doubt the lineup changes at all.
That said, I was wishing he was in the lineup last night – I wanted to see the Asham – Lappy – Carcillo line on the ice towards the end ….
by MaximumTalbot on Jun 7, 2010 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Gotta be Leights
in goal on Wednesday. Undefeated at home, played top notch goal in games 3 and 4, and has really only had one bad game which was last night. He’s gotta be the guy Wednesday, but with a pretty short leash. Boosh has come in and played solid when needed, and he needs to be trusted to do so if they call on him. I think the Flyers win a close one on Wednesday and then we have an absolutely amazing game 7. At that point, it will be tough for our boys, but I think they have a real shot.
“To be honest, I’m fucking pissed off. It was the game of our lives and we’re that weak in the first period.”
That’s what Kimmo said.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
Kimmo is always honest.
He also knows they’ll be ready on Wednesday AND Friday.
GO FLYERS!!!!
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 7, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Killer instinct
The Blackhawks have no killer instinct. While I’d love to debate Travis on this point, he’s dead on. It’s the most frustrating thing about this ‘Hawks team. They’ve generally been a great 1st period team all year, but never seem to quite put the nail in the coffin. Hell, they’ve pulled this shit with weaker teams like Minnesota and Dallas. It’s infuriating. Luckily, they have the offense to win games like last night.
Great recap, but how was Byfuglien’s goal dirty? I thought that was the prettiest goal of the game. I love those little redirects through the 5-hole. They don’t pop the net all pretty-like, but they take a hefty amount of skill to pull off.
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jun 7, 2010 9:13 AM EDT reply actions
I think he meant “dirty” not in the way that you read it.
I don’t know if you know much about the Flyers in the mid-80’s, but we had a guy named Tim Kerr who scored a lot of these “dirty” goals, i.e., a huge-bodied man plants himself in front of the net and basically tips any shot approaching the net and/or bangs in rebounds (multiple times if necessary) – no one can move him from the spot because he’s so big and strong (sound familiar?).
So, “dirty” not in the sense of “undeserved”, but more in the sense of “unpretty” (i.e., not a twisted wrister or a slapshot from the slot).
Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and you admitted you like goals like these; thus, you wouldn’t use “dirty” in describing them (I empathize – I loved Kerr’s goals… ;)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 7, 2010 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah, I see
We play the Canucks a lot, and they have whiny players (e.g. Kesler) who like to complain about goals like that being “cheesy” or “dirty”… so I guess it’s just my conditioned response to take it that way. Fucking Canucks.
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jun 7, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
actually thought that goal wasn't as dirty
as, say, Bolland’s goal in the first or Hartnell’s in the 2nd. I think I consider goals dirty if they are the product of a timely rebound and opportunistic positioning— Buff’s goal had him well placed in front of the net, but it was also the product of tic-tac-toews (haha, sorry, got that from a comment on SCH) passing.
This comment is neither here nor there, but I just wanted to chime in with my opinion. I’ve been going around calling goals ugly or pretty and I thought most everyone had the same definition.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 7, 2010 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
The speed at which the Hawks played in the 1st period is unsustainable. The Hawks use their speed to force turnovers but also to compensate for blown assignments, breakaways and odd man rushes they are suspectible to. As the game progresses and fatigue sets in the Hawks don’t really adjust their game and no longer have as much speed to compensate for any mistakes or blown assignments. As the opposing team are forced to open up to catch up after the Blitzkreig the Hawks have enough depth to exploit the the opponents defense that is now pressed to play more offensively. At this point the Hawks are just trading goals. It’s a gamble that has paid off thus far.
Trading goals
This is usually the case, but we have seen several blown leads this year, against teams much much weaker than the Flyers. A win is a win, but I’d like to avoid the ulcers.
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jun 7, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
-their forwards just crushed us on the forecheck.
-our passing was atrocious. it was almost never tape to tape.
-couldn’t really get a decent bounce. chalk it up to crappy ice if you want, but the hawks had to play on it as well. that said, their ice sucks.
-the announcing last night was piss poor.
in playing their worst hockey of the series, i am proud that the flyers never gave up. character indeed.
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
Doc Emrick Drinking Games:
1) drink when he says “knifed”
2) drink when he says “armbands” or “stripes”
3) drink when he says “helter-skelter”
4) chug when he says “bedlam”
Any others? Those are the first four that come to mind.
I would say
5) drink when he says “DRIVE!” but that would result in alchohol poisoning in 100% of games he announces.
’HIT THE POST WITH THE SHOT!"
Every freaking time a player hits the post.
Proudly supporting a Flyers team with "no honor."
If these officials keep being paid in Chicago. I hope in a game seven and we are losing I hope who ever is on the ice in the last minute pulls a Hextall and just start beating the shit out of them they are pussies they look scared in Philly must be cause they know the can’t just elbow eveybody in the head. OR NBC and NHL way of trying to make a game seven undeserved.
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
if you're scoring at home
that’s a total of one game out of five where the Hawks have had the PP edge.
Gentlemen! I have invented...this thing!
I feel you don’t have to score on the power play. Many games this season the Flyers lost where the team had like 10 pp but score only one of them. But the Flyers could never get going because they were down a man all the time this game showed that to me bullshit calls make a team skiddish and then down a man a lot takes away alot of time to comeback.
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
by Christopher A on Jun 7, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
situational calls
you have to look at the situations too though. it would have been pretty nice for the flyers to get a gift 5on3 to get them back in the game last night like CHI had in game 4. Overall the Flyers have gotten more calls but when you call two bullshit penalties in a row to give a team life in a must win on Friday and then miss at least a double minor-probably should have been a major-highstick that could have put the Flyers back in it then there is a clear advantage. Not to mention the fact that the weak Pronger penalty completely killed the momentum the Flyers had after cutting the deficit to two. It just pisses me off that the Chicago whining to the league office probably had a huge role in last night’s game
don’t do this.
chicago people complained the entire time the series was in philly. it wasn’t the refs that won the two games for the flyers, or lost it for the hawks.
last night wasn’t the refs fault. yeah, they missed a few calls. shit happens, and i’m guessing the flyers aren’t sitting around complaining about the refs.
Eat what the monkey eats, then eat the monkey. -U.S. Navy survival guidance
jezus, Richie, Gange and Carter need to show up! I know they’re playing against the best defensive pairing of the Hawks, but they looked like complete shit. Our second line is keeping us in it. Maybe our first line needs to be broken up like the Hawks did?
agreed
I agree. Gagne and Carter especially look fucking terrible. Carter killed at least 4 or 5 rushes last night by shooting from retarded areas that had no chance of going in. Gagne looks to me like he’s playing soft. I saw at least two situations where he mad a bad play because he didnt want to get hit
Gags might not be at his best, indeed, but he’s definitely not that bad nor he’s playing soft. He had 3 hits last night (5 in Game 4 which was the second best of all skaters in that game), 4 shots on goal, 1 goal and was even in +/-. Yes, he had some bad turnovers or passed the puck right on the stick of a Hawk but I saw him redeem himself many times, maybe not with scoring or big hits but with pretty good backchecking.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
I hate to say this, b/c I really like Jeff Carter, but with the way Briere and Leino have played these playoffs, Carter sure is looking like off-season trade material right now…
by SanDiegoScraps on Jun 7, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to make a fanpost on this sometime in the offseason
But I think to sustain this team into the future and to enable the resigning of Giroux and Leino, Carter may need to be traded. If we could do a Kessel-like trade for Jeff Carter (i.e. trading for a couple of lottery picks), I would do it instantly, even if I don’t think I could imagine the kid we spent the lockout season hyping up in another team’s jersey.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jun 7, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I used to maintain Carter was the #1 Flyer
but it is getting to the point that we could go on quite well without him, given our young core of Giroux, Leino, JVR and the like.
An Ohio fan of the Philadelphia Flyers, Carolina Panthers, Oakland A's, and Philadelphia 76ers. Strange? Yes. Very.
by chillicothe20 on Jun 9, 2010 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Feeling calm today...
After the losses in Games 1 and 2, I felt terrible. Those were close games, and the Flyers put forth the requisite effort to win, but for a variety of reasons it just didn’ t go our way. Winning Games 3 and 4 was great because we saw the Flyers playing the game they needed to play. Last night, just about every player in orange and black was completely flat, so we got trounced. I make no excuses about officiating because that wasn’t the reason for the loss. So, as I said, I don’t feel bad today, because I felt a game like this was coming, but I’m glad it’s over and we can move on. A couple of days rest, and back on home ice, I feel confident we’ll see the Flyers back to form, and then we’ll force a Game 7 to decide the outcome. And remember, if you had told any Flyers fan in mid-December we’d be preparing for Game 6 of the SCF, they’d have called you nuts. Go, Flyers – I believe!
In Latvia, they're rooting for Bartulis' team, the Filadelfijas Flaieri!
Agreed.
In fact, I’ll go one further – I think it may be a great thing we did get trounced instead of losing a close one again (of course, winning would have been better than both, but we’ll deal with the loss we have at hand).
Any lingering complacency should be thoroughly purged now. The message has been delivered: play like crap, get pounded. This is a lesson they won’t need again (yes, they shouldn’t have needed it in the first place, but, apparently, the more difficult the situation, the better for our team).
I feel great going into the last two games – I know they’ll respond in Philly, and I like our chances in game 7.
GO FLYERS!!!!
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 7, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Last night sucked monkey balls. But, normally when we lose like that, I feel like I’m going to throw up. For some reason, I felt calm last night, not because we still scored on Niemi but because it became clear to me that we were due for a dud.
Game 6 will be a dog fight. The Flyers better come prepared for the biggest game of the season. Backs are against the wall, its do or die.
LETS GO FLYERS!
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09
twitter: @princessblueezy
we were due for a dud.
This is probably true. You are one of many who have said this. Practically everyone I’ve talked to has said this, in fact.
I counter with the same point: You can’t lay an egg in the Stanley Cup Finals.
I would also counter that we had a defensive dud in Game 1 of the series. It does not auger well for us.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
This was a dud at the absolutely wrong time.
Chicago is better than us. They have more talent at forward and a legit 3rd pairing. They’ve shut down Richie, Gags, Carts, and G. They’ve done everything that they’ve needed to do.
That being said, if we can win game 6, game 7 is a no holds barred anything goes game. But, it’s a big IF for us to win game 6. We’ll have to throw everything at the Hawks to win game 6 and we haven’t played a complete game yet here in the playoffs.
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09
twitter: @princessblueezy
I would argue that Chicago also had a “dud” in Game 4. If not for the officiating making 2 bogus calls to give them a 5-3 in that game (wasn’t one a penalty on Hartnell for banging his fricking stick on the boards, and the other was a very marginal hook), Chicago didn’t play well at all.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 7, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Triple Sigh
More Leighton bashing. This guy could win every game for us and I still think he would get whacked on this site.
Was he good last night? No, he wasn’t.
Was Boucher any better? No, he wasn’t and he certainly DID NOT give us a chance to win the game.
Seriously, the Flyers played so bad in the first it could have been 8-0. Chicago had 14 scoring chances for the love of…
"Game 7's are tough... It's a game that's made for men and our guys proved to be men today." -Laviolette
Leighton
I know some people are killing Leighton but before the Hawks started scoring he made a ton of good saves. The Hawks way over 10 scoring chances in the 1st the 10 minutes and Leighton was “standing on his head”. If he can see it I am confident that he will stop most shots. The Hawks played great in the 1st and took many chances with the D pinching so much if we could have just made one clean pass to get going the other way that game could have been completely different.
Either way no matter how bad you lose it only counts once. Detroit hammer Pittsburg 5-0 in game 5 last year so this means absolutely nothing especially with the heart and guts that our squad has shown all playoffs.
Agreed. So did I. Even after the first goal, which went in obviously only because Prongs deflected it. That was unfortunate but I still believed Leights is at his game. But after the second goal which was absolute fluke and partially bad play by Michael, I started to worry… But then again… I didn’t want him to be pulled.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
I understand the pull was to shake things up, but I honestly was happy with the period Leighton put in when you consider the amount of quality chances he faced. He honestly had a really good period (I know that’s hard to believe with 3 GA). The way the 1st two happened, I kind of figured it wasn’t their night, but i thought until the 4th goal went in, they should stick with Leighton. It’s not like we haven’t seen Leights shut the door before (see game 7 Boston), and I know Chicago is a offensively gifted team, but I still feel until 4 went on the board without the Flyers having 1, you stick with Leights. But you can’t really question the genius of Lavy this post season, so it’s hard to argue against the switch there.
Hawks played great in the 1st and took many chances with the D pinching so much if we could have just made one clean pass to get going the other way that game could have been completely different.
This is what I was thinking. . I felt that Leighton performed well other than the second goal. I felt that Laviolette didn’t gauge the stituation very well and should have had us dig in more and set up in something like the shell the Bruins use. It worked for the Preds. With a team like the Hawks that swarm with reckless abandon, it seems that this type of defensive set up gives you more changes to counter punch. It worked for the Bruins on us for a few games. I don’t think is the way for us to play the whole a game as the Bruins learned, but just something we should use to withstand the Hawks blitzkreig. Once the Hawks fatigued a bit then we should have pressed. Which is kinda of what happened but we were to far behind and had to open the game up too much which is what the Hawks really want – a shoot out. We were a bit flat but asking our guys to match that insane pressure in the first period even if we weren’t would have been dumb – were not as fast and not as young as the Hawks.
When we were down 2-0...
If you told me it would be 3-2 at this point, I’d have taken it, especially with Chicago’s road win streak going like it was. I’m still cautiously optomistic.
Upon moving to AL, I let my wife decide who she would root for. After one day at a new job full of Bama fans, she met me at the door with a hearty cry of "WAR EAGLE"
by SandMountainTiger on Jun 7, 2010 10:18 AM EDT reply actions
The Last Stand
Everything aside from what happened in this game, looking at things overall. Asking to beat the blackhawks 3 or 4 games in a row was too much.
But I still believe we can back to back again being that there’s one home game and one potential anything can happen game.
The Flyers need to just make one last stand at home. After that we go into game 7 with a nothing to lose mentality. We’re the underdog on the road. We just sell the fuck out on everything. Doubleshit Pronger and Timmonen and Carle as much as possible. Crash the net everytime. Just balls to the wall everything.
But first we just need to play one more great game at home. Then all bets are off.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 7, 2010 10:33 AM EDT reply actions
doubleshift
whoops. but yeh. doubleshift
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 7, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to nitpick, but the way Coburn has played for the majority of this series, and the playoff in general, I would include him in the Prongs, Timo, Carle list. It looks like Coburn has developed quite the nasty streak, and I hope it’s here to stay.
They need to pay Coburn this offseason. He’s been a beast and if he can keep it up… it’ll bode good things for the future.
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I’m hoping they get him at a reasonable price given his offensive production fall off. But honestly, I’ve been very happy with him.
Absolutely. I still have right in front of my eyes the play he made at the end of the Game 4. Toews nearly tied the game there. Hadn’t been for Coburn and his “gloves save”, we wouldn’t probably be here right now.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
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- “glove save”
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
Coburn
he has def stepped it up. But he still has the tendency to make the bad turnover. However in the interest of not totally tiring everyone out, I agree Coburn should be included in that foursome of doubleshifting.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jun 7, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I feel like his turnovers are exaggerated b/c his have ended up in the back of the net more and are inprinted in our memories. Here are some quick stats for perspective, but I should note these don’t say where the turnover occurred, or what the result was, it’s just a count. these are Giveaways/Takeaways for the Reg Season and then the playoffs:
Carle 64/34; 15/12
Pronger 58/40; 16/9
Coburn 45/22; 14/10
Timonen 35/37; 9/7
Timonen looks to be the best here during both regular season and the playoffs of our top 4, Coburn has not been the worst in either. Granted, you may want to normalize this for TOI, but I’m lazy.
Timo was great last night and has been quietly great this entire playoffs, IMO. He just get’s overshadowed by Prongs.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 7, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Copper & Blue
Didn’t like Boucher….and I tend to agree with their assessment. I know none of the goals were bad, but you just absolutely need your goalie to make a big stop or two in a comeback situation and Boucher didn’t do that. I thought Leighton was decent, maybe unraveled on the 2nd and 3rd goal, but damn, he was getting absolutely blitzkreiged for the first 10 minutes. How about the team start playing before the end of the first?
Secondly, I’m so glad we still have Jeff Carter. That guy has been amazing….*end sarchasm
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 7, 2010 10:40 AM EDT reply actions
Have you watched the replays again today?
- Solid save on a near Hossa breakaway. Kimmo did a solid job though, too.
- Pretty good save on a two-on-one shot by Toews.
- The first save may not have been anything special, but he held his ground and made the second save while a Hawk was falling on top of him.
There’s only one other save on the NHL highlight reel and it’s just a Kane turnaround that Boucher deflected into the corner, but he made at least 3 huge stop in the second period after Briere totally effed up the coverage. He kept it a 4-2 game while the Flyers were missing open nets until Pronger went to the box. He did his job last night.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought Boucher was fine, but I also thought it was a bit premature to pull Leighton. Now, the rest of the team, that’s a different story. Flat as a pancake, but a few moments made me think we might get back in it. But it just wasn’t meant to be last night. The many missed opportunities on open net were painful, but for me, the sloppy passing and turnovers in the neutral zone just had me fuming. That said, I don’t feel too bad today as I think we’re going to play fine back home on Wednesday and force a Game 7. Sarauj, Flyers!
In Latvia, they're rooting for Bartulis' team, the Filadelfijas Flaieri!
Yeah, I feel comfortable saying Leighton made some huge stops in the first 10-12 minutes of the first period. Even some Boucher might not have made. But Boucher did the same thing in second period, stopping some Leighton might not have made.
Long story: Both goaltenders made some huge saves, Leighton cracked under the pressure of his team collapsing on top of him, and Boucher isn’t good enough to rescue a sinking ship. Neither goalie should be the focal point of last night because we all know they aren’t good enough to win games when the team in front of them plays that poorly.
But, here we are talking about which goalie is worse…
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if HO was bringing up a who is worse scenario. I think he is just stating Booosh didn’t make the saves when the Flyers needed them, that’s not saying he didn’t make good saves, and it’s also not saying Leights would have. It’s more of, in that scenario, with the team getting within 2 goals 3 different times, he needs to step up and make one of those save on goals 4, 5, or 6. Obviously neither of them are Finals caliber goalies, but HO was making the point of Booosh not seizing the moment if you will…at least that’s how I interpreted his comment.
that’s exactly what I was saying. Both Boosh and Leighton made some absolutely wonderful saves. The stop on Hossa on the breakaway was great and both other examples Geoff pointed to above, were also solid. I’m not hacking on Boucher or Leighton, both might be considered equally as bad last night (despite the team as a whole were abysmal) however, sometimes you need your goalies to make the RIGHT or TIMELY save and in this particular instance, I don’t think Boucher did. Right when we pulled it to within 2, bang it was in the back of our net again.
If you want to place blame on anyone last night, I’m ready to start the “which alien race took Jeff Carter, please return him”….
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 7, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess my problem is even putting Boucher in the conversation of two goal lead quickly goes to three. The first goal he allowed is unstoppable. Eleven minutes went by after the Flyers brought it to within two before the second goal he allowed, and it was on the PP. The Flyers bring it back within 2, but 10 minutes go by before Sharp scores to put it back to three.
That’s 21 minutes of trailing by 2 and being unable to bring it closer.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you missed what I was saying. I agree, the 3 goals Boucher let in were tough saves to make, but unfortunately, the team at that point, needed Boucher to shut to door completely. It’s not his fault that that was an impossible task, it’s just the way it is.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 7, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, certainly. I didn’t think HO was bringing up a who is worse, but I’d argue that Boucher did make those saves. Those three saves I linked to were pretty big saves. He kept it a two goal game. In that time span, Richards and Leino missed wide open nets. With the saves Boucher made, it could have easily been a tie-game.
Just because Pronger goes to the box and Byfuglien scores on the PP while standing alone in front doesn’t mean Boucher didn’t step up when the game was within two. He did, but the Flyers couldn’t close the gap. And after JVR scored to bring it back within two, Boucher may not have made any huge saves, but 10 minutes went by where he didnt’ allow a goal and the Flyers couldn’t score. Carter had one dribble wide, there were plenty of bad bounces, and then a three-on-two goal is scored by a sniper.
Both goalies stepped up, but the team couldn’t support them. Neither Leighton nor Boucher played any different last night than they have all playoffs. But neither can stand on their head for more than 10 minutes. Look at Boucher in Boston Game 1.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree Geoff, there is plenty of blame to go around before pointing the finger at the goalies, unfortunately, in a situation where you are down a couple of goals, the team has to play less defensively, meaning the goalie is going to have to stand on his head. Unfortunately, like you indicate, neither of these goalies is good enough to do that, which is a point that I hope Homer addresses in the offseason.
Now I can just hope that Leighton continues his unbeaten streak at home and that Friday night, the team doesn’t dig themselves a hole in the first 15 minutes of the game, that they have to rely on their goaltending to keep them in the game, while they try to climb out.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 7, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok. Now I fully understand. You’re saying the team needed them to stand on their heads and they didn’t, not because they should have but because they can’t. Small misunderstanding.
But yeah, was it you who said the official who said “we had the guy all along” is probably pooping himself right now?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
no, it wasn’t me.
when do we get to start discussing Carter’s worth….
and Leino is awesome, although he’s being really sheltered if you look at zone starts….
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 7, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha, yeah, he’s extremely sheltered.
And any Carter criticism needs to be prefaced with “two broken feet”.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
true, true.
I assume that two broken feet translates into stone hands….
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 7, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure it does. It’s hard to get your hands back when you’re not playing at 100 percent. Everything feels off.
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by Travis Hughes on Jun 7, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t disagree, but in seriousness, I am a little disappointed that the Flyers rushed him back for game 4 vs. Montreal. He wasn’t needed in that series at all.
I’m not saying that throwing him into the fire in the SC finals would have been optimal, but at least he’s more than the 60% he’s playing at now and not to question Lavy, but he should be centering a 3rd line like Savard was in Boston. He’s getting the tough minutes against the top lines on 2 broken feet. No wonder Richards and Gagne are dragging the line around the ice.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 7, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not opposed to that, but then does Giroux move up with Richards and Gagne? Do you leave JVR with Carter? Because you then have a third line that is now pretty much useless.
Now, maybe Carter can destroy the matchup, but ~60% Carter probably isn’t enough to overcome Kane/Sharp (the two players JVR and Giroux played the most against last night) if he can’t beat Versteeg and Bolland (Carter’s matchup last night). Then you factor in that both JVR and Carter are fairly similar players (not too strong in the corners unless they want to be; Shoot first mentality; either shoot wide or into the goalies chest; etc.) and it looks like it doesn’t matter where he plays.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
you are absolutely correct, which is exactly what I knew you were going to say. So basically Lavy is f’d, which I wouldn’t argue with.
However, I might tinker with, Giroux to the first line (i think he did play some there last night), Powe/Betts (who is the center on the 4th line?) centering the 3rd line and Carter centering the 4th line.
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by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 7, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Betts centers the fourth line. But then you’re separating Betts/Laperriere or you’re putting Carter with those two, which… is pretty much wasting Carter. Having Powe center Asham and JVR makes JVR the scorer, which he OBVIOUSLY is, but I don’t like that.
I think I agree that right now, Carter doesn’t fit anywhere nicely.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
alright that thread was long and that should go all the way up there with Geoff’s comment about Carter
haha, it did. No worries.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree as well. It’s just what the team needed at the time, and ,as unfair as it is to Booosh to say this, he was the one in there that needed to make those saves, as unstoppable as they were at that time. I don’t think we really disagree here, you can’t fault Boosh for any of those really, you just wish he could have stopped one of them is all. Wish is not an expectation, just a hope for soemthing the team needed.
Yeah, now I understand.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Nothing like watching this travesty with a Devils/Rangers fan (don’t ask) who’s cheering for Chicago just to be a pr**k..
The Flyers didn’t do anything right last night and they couldn’t even have the decency to take a Blackhawk down with them. Boo. I don’t blame officiating; I blame an unprepared team that just stood around and let that first period happen and it ended up killing them. The Hartnell penalty opened the floodgates. Boo again.
The way Chicago feels about Pronger is the way I feel about that Dustin Byfugly—what a cherry-picking bastard. I want that lard ass back to crying our of fustration next game. I sports hate the hell out of that mofo.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
How about watching the game with Panthers fans cheering for Chicago just to be pricks?
That’s right, all game I had to listen to fans of the most inept franchise in the NHL talk shit about the Flyers.
Ooh, I feel for you. At least the Devils/Rangers have had some history of winning. And it makes more sense for them to root against the Flyers, since it’s the same division. Panthers? Don’t they have their own rivals?
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
Panthers? Don’t they have their own rivals?
I think you have to have some history to have a rival. They’ve made 3 playoff appearances in 16 years, and none in the last 10. I guess you could consider the battle for Florida to be a rivalry, but even the Lightning are usually better than the Panthers.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Lightning are way better than the Panthers any-timeeeee. Even when they suck just like they do right now (Bolts, that is). It’s usually only Vokoun who keeps the Kittens in the game.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
At least you have Stamkos and Hedman to be excited about.
Go Go Gadget Gagne
What if Broad Street Didn't Fight Back? History HAS been made. 5-7-10
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I sure am excited about Stamkos (How awesome was to realize that when Crosby gets to win the Rocket Richard Trophy for the first time in his career, he has to share it with Stammer? What a bliss!)… not that much about Hedman but we’ll see how it goes with him.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
Oof, that’s rough. My wife isn’t into hockey at all (don’t ask), so she usually roots against the Flyers (even to the point of researching dirt on the Flyers players online, cuz she’s awesome) just to mess with me. But she’s left me alone in this series, she clearly knows this one is important.
If by “awesome” you mean “worthy of divorce,” then sure…
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by Travis Hughes on Jun 7, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahahaha, believe me man, I was impressed when she came home one day last summer and said “so I heard the Flyers traded for some guy from Anaheim, and they led the league in fighting majors last year, so he should fit right in.” It’s the sincere effort to rile me up that shows she cares! Keeps me on my toes, she does.
Hey, at least she doesn’t go all pod people on you and blindly adopt all of your teams like most women I know. I hate that.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I went out with a guy who turned out to be Habs fan. He was being a typical Canadiens fan after Game 3. After Game 5? He never called back. Poop.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
I have a friend whose father is a judge, if you are serious about this divorce talk I could get this thing pushed through before game 6. You could have the house empty and guilt free by the inevitable and unavoidable game 7. Just let me know.
Go Go Gadget Gagne
What if Broad Street Didn't Fight Back? History HAS been made. 5-7-10
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I’m calm. If there’s one team I trust in this type of back-to-the-wall situation it’s the 2010 Philadelphia Flyers. We all know that anything could happen in Game 7. The only task right now is getting there.
At this point it is certainly more about what the Flyers need to do than anything. There is just no way they can play like that again or they’re toast regardless of how Chicago plays. However one thing disconcerts me greatly The Chicago line juggling. I hope that they merely appeared to be clicking that well due to our bad play. I respect their team and there’s no denying how impressive that group of Top 6 Forwards is. There needs to be some serious laying of the law to set the tone at the start of Game 6. I’m talking about viscous, merciless Pronger elbows to the grill. If the ref calls it, elbow his ass too. Beat these bastards like an old rug. Thats how we get to Game 7.
DAMN YOU PATRICK SHARP. I LOVED YOU
I'm all for Pronger elbows to the grill, with the Refs calling them
Something we can agree on! lol
The line Shuffling, I think it is a bit of both. Philly not knowing how to respond to spreading out Hossa-Kane-Toews-Buff-Bolland-Versteeg-Ladd-Brouwer through 3-4 lines, and Toews-Kane-Buff resulting in having more ice to work with. Kane was able to do his skate around half the rink thing, Toews was able to carry the puck into the zone slot and corners and played better on the boards, Buff could establish position. It will interesting to see what happens for Game 6. But I would expect those 8 to be spread over 4 lines again.
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by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 7, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
So long as they call them evenly
On Buff, too. It’s not like the Blackhawks team is full of angels. They’ve gotten away with plenty in this series, too.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
The Refs suck
The NHL needs to take a page from the NFL on dealing with refereeing games.
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 7, 2010 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m still not clear on why Keith’s high stick to Briere which caused profuse bleeding was not atleast a double minor.
In Latvia, they're rooting for Bartulis' team, the Filadelfijas Flaieri!
The only thing I can think of
It was missed by all four officials, or one may have seen the puck hit his visor and left enough doubt that it was not a stick. IDK
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
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by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 7, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, and it was really only missed by 3, because the other linesman had his back to it while he was dropping the puck.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Because these refs are fucking blind.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
But then again,
it certainly is not the first DM Highstick missed these 5 games.
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
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by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 7, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Hold on
Because a player is bleeding, does not mean it must have been from a stick. If the Refs/linesman do not see the stick hit above the bottom of the chin, you can not just correlate bleeding with a stick then. A puck to the face can also draw blood, which is not a penalty.
Missed Call surely.
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
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by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 7, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
More times than not it’s a stick, though. Especially when it’s someone of Briere’s stature and it’s not like he’s known for blocking shots (or defense of any kind).
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
It did happen off the faceoff
The Puck DID hit him in the visor at least, if not the face, and it does not matter if the player is known for blocking shots, that should not be a consideration on penalties ever. But regardless, I do not want refs just to assume a high stick any time a player is bleeding from the face, I want them to see it being a high stick. It do not want a DM High stick called because a player is bleeding from the face that may have come from the puck, a check into the boards, or a rough hit when the players head was low(legal hit, just a rough hockey hit).
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
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by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 7, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
From the on-ice replay, the puck never got within three feet of Briere’s head. The high-angle made it look like it hit him, but at the level the referees would see it at, it was clear the puck did not make contact with Briere or his equipment.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Fair enough
Regardless, if none of the on ice officials see the stick hit the face, there should be no call. I do not like the idea of “assuming” it was a stick because a guy is bleeding.
But once again, it was one of many missed calls of this series.
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 7, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, his eye looked absolutely awful after that. can’t imagine what it looks like this morning.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 7, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Lets be real if our goaltending was like game two all those line changes and paid refs your team would be beaten down. Your team still gives up 4 goals on a game that I saw they show have hve had 7 to 2 the Hawks are no better than the Flyers If I knew going in to the game that I would be thrown in the box for a crowd noise I would be playing a little shitty. That what make the fans at the UC whinny little bitches.
I wasn't even a year old but I stayed up to be outside the Vet with my Dad and Mom when the Phillies won the World Series 1980.
by Christopher A on Jun 7, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
hey, you're kind of making Flyers fans look bad
paid refs? really?
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 7, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s one fan. Don’t lump us all together.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
This one guy/comment is pretty easy to see
as well, I let you finish the statement
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 7, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
oh, quite the opposite
I know he’s probably more the exception than the rule. Thought I’d be helpful and point out he’s not doing his fellow fans a favor.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 7, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
lol, you're welcome
we all have those types.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 7, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
While he doesn’t speak for all of us nor do I but I’d like to say I find it odd that we see more of you after you win but not after you lose.
Surprisingly they are in better spirits, too. Imagine that. Before, we were all dickheads, because the Flyers were winning. Now, we’re cool. If the Blackhawks do win the Cup in Philly, I promise you one thing: I won’t be here, because I won’t be cool with that. I will want blood. And I don’t want to see any fing Chicago fans over here talking any kind of smack or I will seriously lose my sh*t. I am a redhead, after all, and violent by nature.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
I find showing up only when you win and looking to converse is a form of passive aggressive trolling. A few Hawks fans have the sense to make sure to have come by when they lose.
passive aggressive trolling is a little severe
but hey, you’re entitled to your opinion. Obviously, if you’d rather not converse with Hawks fans I’ll gladly limit the comments I make. This is your blog, after all.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 7, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, as I said below, going over to the other site after wins just seems more natural. As long as you don’t go over and gloat, I see nothing wrong with people traveling across sites. It’s the ones who come over and don’t say anything or act like they’re in the majority that find trouble.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Also referred to as Douchebags, perhaps even a Douchenozzle!
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 7, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Love the term “Douchenozzle”!
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
well we stayed away last night or sure, thinking that was just a bad idea all around. But Geoff and Travis were noticing that no one was here in general, so it looked like fans from both sides kinda stayed away.
That happened after the Game 4 loss at SCH though. not only that we weren’t over here, but that the comment count at SCH was RIDICULOUSLY low that night and during the off day. And for most part it stayed that way until a few hours before last night’s game, when the posts finally started to pick up again.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 7, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
It could be that I’m older and not used to the openess of the blogosphere but I never post on other teams boards in post season competition and certainly not on any rival teams board at any time during the season.
I’m the same way. I absolutely don’t want to see the other teams’ fans celebrating when they win and I don’t want to see them bitching when they lose, either. Some people get a perverse thrill out of seeing the other teams’ fans suffering. Schaudenfreude.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
that's fair
the biggest reason i go on other blogs (really more so after round 1 of the playoffs) is
1) to watch for blatant extreme-trolling (which we had some issues with these playoffs, and it makes us look really bad), and
2) because homer comments are homer comments no matter who you root for. I get annoyed with commenters on SCH who can never concede a point for the other side or make a counter point. It adds nothing to my understanding of hockey and I genuinely learn a lot by being here.
But yes, I see you points.
by puppetmasterp on Jun 7, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The reason I come here
Your guys actually post previews and post game reactions, and I’ll be damned if I’m going to be reading anything from the MSM on this series.
"I have only space enough to add: against the assault of desperate pandas nothing can stand."
-ChicoMaki (channeling Mark Twain)
by HungryHungryPanda on Jun 7, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait till we play the Penguins and we either all go over there or invite them over to us for the game threads. It can be a great experience
It boggles my mind that some people with great hockey knowledge and passion, who appear to be well balanced and sane, could chose to devote such love for a team such as the Pens.
Pens suck
and for now….. so do the Blackhawks
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
in general, or just me?
I haven’t been around much for either SCH or BSH the last five games due to real life commitments, but this postseason I’ve tried to see what the other team’s blog is saying. Personally, my comments will decrease on opposing team’s blogs after losses, but that’s me biting my tongue. I think, for the most part, that it’s general fan behavior, however. I’ve noticed the same from fans of other teams who go to SCH.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 7, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think it’s natural for people to stay on their own site after losses. Generally, you blame your team for losing more than the other team for winning – human behavior – so you don’t really care what they’re saying about their team and don’t want to hear what they say about your team.
But after a win, you’re curious to see what the losing team has to say. Who do they pin the loss on, what went wrong, etc. And it’s always a good idea to tone down the comments when you stray far from home, but generally, fans who come over with an inquisitive and reasoned mind find little trouble. Unless you go to PPP where they just hate everybody.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Caution is good
I think the only thing I said, until the discussion of Sharp’s goal, was telling some asshole troll to STFU. It was easy to see nothing was to be gained by adding my two cents.
ART.I§8-11; AM I-XXVII
James Madison is my Hero!
by Toews-makes-funny-faces on Jun 7, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, I believe I said thanks for that, too.
Indeed, this was not a fun place to be last night, even for Flyers fans.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
sometimes I'd even stay away from SCH!
But seriously, I try not to act like an asshat so let me know if I am.
Have never actually gone by PPP all that much—I didn’t realize that was what they were like. Always gave me the impression that they’re cool, but admittedly, I haven’t been around many Leafs fans.
But when it was suggested to him that Toews v. Kane seems likely to become a sidebar to every future international hockey tournament, he smiled and said: "I'd like us to win something together, too."
(Tweets @ChiBlackhawks and blogs at Blackhawks Down Low.)
by chiblackhawks on Jun 7, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
haha, the PPP reference was made slightly in jest. They’re definitely good people, but they have a… unique perspective on things. They’re hysterical, so long as you aren’t easily offended.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Three more random thoughts from last night:
1) Where was our timeout?
2) Can’t blame Richards for being a lefty on that should-have-been-slam-dunk. Tough to elevate on the backhand.
3) I blame NBC for taking their “iso cam” off of Pronger for the night.
2) You can’t blame him for being lefty, but it would have been nice for him to take a second to settle, look and fire rather than redirect it back into a sprawling Niemi. It’s tough to do in that situation, but I would have thought he realized he was relatively uncovered and had some time there.
Yeah. That’s tough. It sucks, and you wish he would have realized he had another second. Hell, maybe he could have even collected the pass backhand, move a step to the left and deposit it forehand. Then, he’s at least moving away from anyone potentially there and allowing a harder shot.
But he wasn’t in optimal position to do that and he still fanned on it. So, he rushed the deflection and didn’t even get good wood on it. Unfortunate, and there are other things he could have done, but those things happen.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jun 7, 2010 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I agree, it was just frustrating on 2 levels. One, he could have done more there, and it could have changed the game. Two, and far more irritating than frustrating, Niemi gets credited for making an “amazing save” when all he did was have Richards shoot the puck back into him. It’s only frustrating b/c I’m still of the mindset that Niemi is a mediocre goalie comparable to Theodore as your numbers suggested, and I don’t like being wrong, especially when, in this case, it was the result of luck.
See, I thought he had to shoot quickly to maintain the element of surprise on Niemi. But you’re right, he probably did have a sec to settle the puck and put it up high. I’m just saying if I was in the same situation, I probably would have shot as quickly as possible too. (Except I’m right-handed…)
Oh don’t get me wrong, when I should take a second, settle, and shoot, I always try a redirect or one timer…and then when I should redirect, I usually try to settle it and peak. You can almost always count on me screwing that up, but then again, I’m also not captaining a team in the SC finals but rather trying to keep my ever saddening hockey career going in men’s leagues.
yeah, but most people that you read this morning, will admit that Niemi had a bad game. 4 goals on 27 shots is not good, especially given the fact that chicago had a nice lead and should have been able to play better defensively…Just because the NBC announcers think and say one thing, doesn’t make it right.
Carter, Leino and Richards all had open nets during that sequence, I think and none got the job done. Excluding Leino, that’s the fact that our top line can’t get it done is the more troubling fact, not that Niemi is playing great, because other than game 2, he’s not.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 7, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, just frustrations from the night boiling over. And to be honest, I didn’t even expect them to win, I figure this was going 7, with each team winning their home games before game 7, so I really shouldn’t even be this upset. But I am what I am.
I’m actually not really upset. I figured Chicago would come out with a head of steam and if we got out of the first period 0-0 or just down 1-0, we were fine. We didn’t do that, so move on. Chicago was in a must win game, if they lost, they were done, everyone knows that….they are much too good a team though to just roll over and quit so it was going to take a lot better effort than last night to get it done in Chicago.
I always thought Chicago needed to win this in 5. The reasons for this is that I don’t think they will win game 6 in Philly and if this goes 7, the road teams have been pretty damn good all playoffs.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jun 7, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I had the same feeling as you for the progression of the series. They really would have preferred to win in 5 – now, they are in the part of the series where we can do (and have done) well.
I’m looking forward to Wednesday AND Friday.
GO FLYERS!!!!
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jun 7, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Carter, Leino and Richards all had open nets during that sequence, I think and none got the job done. Excluding Leino, that’s the fact that our top line can’t get it done is the more troubling fact, not that Niemi is playing great, because other than game 2, he’s not.
Why is this troubling? We might be resilient but were not consistent. Just like the Phillies. It’s nerve racking.
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