Why the Flyers might trade Simon Gagne
by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2010 8:39 PM EDT
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UPDATE, Jul 2 8:36 PM: Simon has been asked to waive his no-trade clause, and he's reportedly done so, making this story all the more relevant. We're pushing it up top for that reason.
ORIGINAL POST, Jul 1 11:59 PM: Today's moves, on the first day of free agency, have understandably left a lot of Flyers fans upset. They didn't get a goalie. They spent $1 million on a goon with a girls name. People are pissed, and that's only been amplified by some rather somber rumors this evening.
According to two different reports from Rogers' Sportsnet in Canada, the Flyers have talked about moving Simon Gagne in a trade to free up some cap space. Sportsnet's Nick Kypreos said that there's "talk of Flyers trying to unload Gagne's contract," while Doug Maclean, an analyst at that network, said more bluntly that "Gagne has played his last game as a Flyer."
That second thought is no doubt a depressing one for anybody who's followed this team over the last decade. Gagne is the longest-tenured Flyer. He's someone who's poured his heart into Philadelphia and the Flyers organization since the day he was drafted, and he's responsible for countless memories in orange and black.
From his rookie season in 1999 to his game-winning goal in Game 6 against Tampa in 2004 to his two game-winners against Boston in 2010, Gagne is more a Flyer than any other player on that roster right now. We all want to see him win a Cup here and retire here. We all want to see his number retired into the Wells Fargo Center (or whatever its called in 15 years) rafters. The sheer thought of any of that not happening is enough to set off the saddest of our emotions tonight.
But for one second, let's try to put all of that aside. Any Gagne trade talks should be qualified of course, with the fact that he has a no-trade clause. We have a query out to Gagne's agent if the Flyers have in fact asked Simon to waive that NTC, and as of now we've yet to receive a response.
With that said, the Flyers can probably get around an NTC. Let's try to justify why the Flyers would opt to move number 12. This might be unpopular, but, well, here we go.
One thing we just can't hide about Gagne's recent career is that he's been a magnet for injury. He's missed 83 games in the last three seasons due to injuries, whether it be serious head injuries or relatively minor foot problems.
His declining health is just one of the reasons that Gagne's career in Philadelphia is coming to an end sooner rather than later, and that's with or without a trade of him this summer. The Flyers are looking at salary cap hell next summer, and with the aging Gagne set to become a free agent, it's widely thought that Paul Holmgren and the organization will part ways with him anyway.
When you think of it this way, that Gagne could and likely will be gone in a year anyway, it's a bit easier to understand why they'd think of trading him over a younger guy like Jeff Carter or Scott Hartnell.
Sure, there's the issue of Carter, who plays a position at which the Flyers are completely stacked. Personally, after watching him in the playoffs and, really, for his entire career, I would love to see the Flyers trade Carter over Gagne. He has the incredible knack to frustrate you time and time again, and that was amplified even more in Game 6 of the Cup Finals. Hell, if Carter scores on a wide open net in the third period, the Flyers could have won the Cup.
For that, he deserves our scorn, and he probably couldn't be further away on the popularity index than Gags.
But despite the fact that it might seem logical to ship Carter away, both emotionally and in the hockey sense, he's still a 30-plus goal scorer in the NHL with restricted free agency coming up in a year. There aren't many of those types of players out there. He's more of an asset to hold at this point than Gagne is, and that's just the harsh truth of the situation. While the Flyers are likely to lose Gagne in a year for nothing, Carter's value is only likely to go up.
No matter what happens, Carter will be more valuable than Gagne in 12 months.
He's only 25 years old, he's entering a contract year and he's going to be completely healthy in time for training camp. The Flyers can decide to keep him, trade him, or at worst, lose him to restricted free agency next summer, where they would likely get at least one first round pick for him.
I'm not trying to say it's not a good move for the Flyers to trade Jeff Carter now. I'm merely making the case as to why the Flyers would choose to send Gagne away now as opposed to someone like Carter in a salary-freeing move. Despite what many of us may think of him, Carter is still a hot commodity in the NHL, while Gagne is on the back end of his career.
Unfortunately, we need to take away our emotional attachments to these guys when thinking about their futures here. I love Simon Gagne and I want to see him retire a Flyer, but sometimes the business of the sport gets in the way.
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Quite honestly, this is probably one of the saddest things I’ve written (outside of death-related, at least).
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I love the way that Gagne has played as a Flyer. But this is a business and all about the team. If it is better to trade Gagne for the team, then it must be done. Remember how Roenick agreed to be traded when the team got Forsberg? That is how Simon must look at this situation. I see Gagne as a great fit in Montreal, Buffalo, or Ottawa in the East. Out west he would be a great player to add to LA for his leadership (plus the Flyers connection there). I would love to flip him over Carter for this one reason – Carter is a sniper and just coming into his prime. Perhaps we can get a young goalie from the Kings or Buffalo for Gagne?
Phigment
I can see
why you would try unload Gagne while he still has value, but this feels worse than getting rid of Dawkins. Why not give him the option to retire…gain the cap space, and then work from there…
I will never be able to boo Gagne coming onto the ice if he plays somewhere else. He’s turning into our version of Ray Bourque…you can’t just trade that away. Hands down I wanted them to win the Cup for Gagne more than anybody else on that team.
Thing I fear with Gagne, is that it’s more like getting rid of Westbrook(who is done) than Dawkins(who actually had something left).
If that’s the case, he’s gotta be shipped out now while there’s something left. Guys don’t tend to get healthier the older they get…
It would suck though. As far as I know Gagne is the longest tenured Philly athlete. He and David Akers are neck in neck… but since one’s a kicker Gagne wins.
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True
Dawkins has something left whereas Gagne is getting old. I guess I’ve gotten used to Westbrook always being hurt, which isn’t fair because when he was in his prime he was top 3 in the league…I’ll save it for another blog and another thread though.
All I want is my omgagne
Done!? Did you see the playoffs? Even if you take a way his scoring power the man is still an amazing two-way player that has invaluable assets in his own end. Add into that a couple of OT GWGs in the playoffs…I don’t think the dude is done.
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by KreiderDesigns on Jul 2, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think he is either. We know he can still play when healthy… just how often do we expect him to be healthy?
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You have a point there, sir. He’s had an unfortunate run with injuries.
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"Good night. Good hockey."
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 2, 2010 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions
But I think the injury history is not as bad as we fear, too. His concussion treatments seem to have worked. If they hadn’t, he would have had another one after the Volchenkov hit, because he would have been that sensitive. His groin injury last year I think was more bad timing than anything, he just hadn’t rehabbed enough from surgery before that Team Canada skate. Obviously we don’t want that to happen again, but I don’t think that was a sign that it’s going to happen over and over again. His toe was a fluke, so that doesn’t worry me much. The fact that the concussions are no longer a real big issue is the main thing for me, because I don’t think he’s going to be forced to retire as early as some people think.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Concussions are always a big issue. That’s not something that can be written off. Another concussion can still end his career.
This is my only fear with the guy. You just ran through a litany of injuries and tried to write them off as flukes or nothing to worry about. I guess you could say that he doesnt have a chronic injury(although I’d say he could with the concussions) but that’s still a healthy list of injuries there. He’s still missed a lot of games the past few years.
Anything is possible, but I’d say it’s far less likely that at 30 years old he’ll get more healthy and miss less games than he has the last few years.
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I didn’t quite mean it that way. I have some experience with the type of treatment Gagne got for his concussions, and I speak from my own personal experiences that it really does make you a lot less sensitive to getting future ones. But of course any NHL player can get a concussion at any time, it’s not like it can never happen again. I wasn’t trying to write everything off, merely saying that I don’t think it’s as bad as some people make it out to be.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Do we know what Gag’s position on all this is? He’s never once (to my knowledge) complained about anything Philly related. Would he take a pay cut to stay here. He’s a lifer. I honestly cannot remember Flyers hockey without Simon. I will be deeply deeply saddened if he leaves and, so long as he doesn’t go to Pittsburgh, will root for him to score every single game, barring playoffs, that he plays against us.
Mancrushin' on Geoff since April 20
"Good night. Good hockey."
I think knowing his injury history, he would take a paycut to stay. Not quite a drop to bargain basement levels, but I would think he would sign for say 3 – 3.5 ish, if nothing else.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
My only bad memory from a team perspective is that he did not accept the captaincy when it was offered to him. That has always bugged me just a bit.
Phigment
That’s neve been Gagne’s role. I don’t see that a detriment to him, I only see it as him knowing that he cannot serve the team best in that way. I don’t see him as a true leader and forcing him to be one might have caused a rift between him and anyone else in the room or in the organization. I’m happy he was never captain. He doesn’t need that kind of scrutiny.
Mancrushin' on Geoff since April 20
"Good night. Good hockey."
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 2, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. It would have been a redo of the Desjardins captaincy. I loved watching Rico play for us, but he was not a great motivator or leader.
I’d say Rico was a great leader at having an “A” role, but he was never meant to be the “C”. Some guys just don’t have the right personality for it, and its better for them to admit that they don’t have the right personality type for it then to take the C when they’re not the best person for it. There’s plenty of different kinds of leaders.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2010 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t see how this makes any sense, even from a business perspective.
My “friend” just FB’d me saying OMGone.
/cries.
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Considering our business it would be a bad move. We have TWO shirts about the guy!! Gah!
Mancrushin' on Geoff since April 20
"Good night. Good hockey."
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 2, 2010 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. First and only player…so far.
Mancrushin' on Geoff since April 20
"Good night. Good hockey."
by KreiderDesigns on Jul 2, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
ESPN Insider says...
Teams inquiring about Gagne have been met with silence.
This is from my friend and lets face it its ESPN so take it for what it’s worth. Also they make a note that it doesn’t mean that the Flyers aren’t willing to sell its just that the teams may not have anything of value.
Mancrushin' on Geoff since April 20
"Good night. Good hockey."
since when is 30 old
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
When you miss 70 or 80 games over the past few years?
But in general, 30 isn’t especially old for a hockey player.
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Right, Gagne is an old 30 though.
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2010 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
"Well, well! If it ain't Old 30!"
I will refer to Gags as “Old 30” from here on out. Just has a nice “grizzled prospector” ring to it.
Seriously though. Everything you wrote here makes sense from a salary cap / UFA vs. RFA perspective. It doesn’t mean we have to like it, but it’s the nature of the New NHL in the Salary Cap era. Gah.
Richard Nixon once said something like, “Politics would be a fine business if not for the Goddamn people.” Here, I would amend that to “Sports would be a fine business if not for the Goddamn people-moving.”
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
So, what you're saying is...
… we need to destroy the people mover!
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
HAHA that is hilarious! Tomorrow’s transportation today! I still don’t see everybody going around in those, I think these “automobiles” are still to primitive lol.
And the Monorail episode of the Simpsons!!! I remember that one when it came out, and I was just excited because Leonard Nimoy was on it (Huge Star Trek fan since forever).
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by red army line on Jul 3, 2010 7:50 AM EDT up reply actions
If Gagne leaves, I might leave with him. He is the reason why I love the Flyers, he is from my home town and he played for my home team. There’s only one other place where he can play and it’s with the Nordiques. I’m the saddest fan right now.
No doubt that Gagne out, Shelley in is a tough pill to swallow…
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4 goals in 4 games returning from injury with the Flyers 3 games down including an OT GWG in Game 4 and the GWG in Game 7. I’m not sure if you’ll make a legend out of that, but it’s going to go down as one of the biggest individual playoff stories in Flyers history.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2010 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
You were trying to argue Angrycoder’s assertion that “Carter is good at scoring goals when they don’t matter, Gagne can score when it matters most.” Gagne’s performance against Boston showed that he wouldn’t choke in the big moments, that when the Flyers’ backs were against the wall he would come out and be the one to keep them alive. And he didn’t do it once, or twice, but three times.
But then in the finals, what do you expect when you put two injured guys together on a line, with one of them playing in an uncomfortable position, against two of the top defenders in the league? He said that since his return against Boston he was in the most pain of his whole career. But despite that, Gags was the reason we weren’t out in the second round. Gags was the reason we’re strutting around like cup contenders when from November through to April we were a horrible mess of a team that looked like it needed to be blown up.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2010 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I was arguing his contention. If Gagne scored when it matters most, he would’ve scored in the Stanley Cup Finals…. WHEN IT MATTERED MOST.
Look, I’m a huge Gagne fan, but this Carter hatred makes me think the McNabb haters were reasonable folks. It makes me ashamed to call myself a Philadelphian. If we turn on a player like Carter this badly, frankly, we don’t deserve to win a Stanley Cup.
The Flyers’ goal scoring during the Stanley Cup Finals
Game 1
Leino, Hartnell, Briere, Betts, Asham (lost 6-5)
Game 2
Gagne (lost 2-1)
Game 3
Briere, Hartnell, Leino, Giroux (win 4-3)
Game 4
Richards, Carle, Giroux, Leino, Carter (EN) (win 5-3)
Game 5
Hartnell, Timonen, van Riemsdyk, Gagne (lost 7-4)
Game 6
Hartnell, Briere, Hartnell (lost 4-3)
He may only have scored two goals, but that was equal to Giroux and greater than anyone not named Leino, Briere or Hartnell. So after his Boston heroics, it’s competely unfair to single out Gagne who was, as I said, hurt, playing on a line with an injured out-of-position teammate, and matching up against two of the top defenders in the league.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2010 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but if you break those goals down, his second goal was in absolute garbage time. Chicago was barely trying.
But I’m not singling out Gagne. You’re right, only three of the forwards showed up. But somehow, this means Gagne is some sort of Clutch God, the hockey version of Derek Jeter, and Jeff Carter is a choke artist.
Neither is true. People choose to ignore that Gagne was ineffective against New Jersey and Chicago and focus on his great games against Boston. Just like everyone remembers his goal against Tampa in Game 6 and forgets that we might never have had to be in Game 6 if he had showed up in Games 1-5 (or 7).
Jeff Carter won us Game 4 against New Jersey, Game 5 against Montreal and clinched Game 4 against Chicago. All while injured. He also had a good series against Washington two years ago and was one of the only Flyers to show up against Pitt in the ECF. But he’s a choke artist and needs to be run out of town.
It’s annoying. It’s Chelsea Dagger annoying.
Let’s not blame either of them for the finals, really. We were here speculating that Richie was hurt, we know Carter was playing through pain and so was Gagne. Then they were treated as the top line, so they took the a lot of punishment from the Chicago D. There’s a reason why none of the 3 were as effective as we wanted them to be in the Finals, and that was as much of a line issue as it was an issue with any individual.
You criticize Gagne in other years, but Carter can be criticized in other years too. I don’t think Gagne’s performance was nearly as bad as you claim it to be in 2004, Gagne (and Handzus) had 5 goals that playoff season, more than anyone not named Keith Primeau. And that was after Gagne had the worst statistical full season of his career, so he wasn’t exactly “hot” going into that offseason.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I can stop reading after your first sentence. Yes, let’s NOT blame either of them for the finals. We’re in complete agreement there and I wish more people were as reasonable as you are.
As for 2004, that’s actually more an implicit critique of the idea of clutch. Gagne is treated as a god for his goal in Game 6… but he was scoreless in the other six games of the series. It’s like how Adam Vinatieri is “the greatest kicker ever” because he shanked kicks in Super Bowls.
Well said
I like Simon Gagne a lot. But when people start up with this preposterous Carter vs. Gagne argument it makes me want to put my head through a wall.
I bet both will be gone before the UFA starts next year.
Its better for Gagnes family that he gets to move during the off season
Carter will be a bit ticket during the March trade deadline
Spacing them will also give us more than if they were both on the trade block at the same time
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
But Jeff Carter sucks.
Let's go Flyers!
by OrangeAndBlackk on Jul 3, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not seeing the Carter hate. I’m just seeing a rational deal. He has no NTC/NMC, is on his last year or so of contract and has a ton of value. Plus we have an excess of centers. That makes him an option for a trade. It’s not a matter of want, it’s a matter of trying to fill holes and he may allow us to do that.
That and not blowing money on another thug… sigh
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Yeah right
So when Carter lead the NHL in the 2009 season in Game winning goals those didn’t matter.
Before this season one of the knocks on Simon was that he wasn’t a big playoff performer.
I like Simon and would like to see him stay, but specious Jeff Carter bashing does nothing to address the points of the article. With that said I don’t see Simon being dealth with his No Trade from a team that is built for another cup run, especially when we’re already short wings.
Can’t really picture Gags in another jersey. I wish that teams would stick it out with guys like this. Great comparison to Borque, but he was traded to a team that was likely to win the cup because he was at most going to play two more years and Boston was doing the right thing sending him somewhere he had a chance to win one. The Flyers have long claimed (and usually are) a “family” oriented team, and trading Gagne away right now because it’s a “good business move” would really @!TF%$^ suck, and make me not believe the talk anymore. His best chance to win a Cup is here right now.
Man this is a bad way to cap off the day. I was disappointed with half of the stuff we did (Leights, Shelley, and overpaying for Coburn, but I’m happy about Meszaros and O’Donnell), but hearing this about Gagne makes me sad.
Gagne is my favorite player on this team and has been one of my favorite all time Flyers. I think even though he has had some bad injuries, he has a lot left in the tank still and I don’t want to see him go (the playoffs this year says that he’s definitely not done). He has been very important to us scoring many timely goals. I feel that without him we wouldn’t have had a chance to make history against Boston. Because he has a NTC I hope (selfishly) he won’t waive it and stay in Philly. He seems like the type who will definitely take a pay cut to stay with the Flyers and help the team keep Giroux and Lieno. If he gets traded it will be my least favorite move Holmgren has made and will ever make.
As much as Carter can score, Angrycoder said it best:
Carter is good at scoring goals when they don’t matter, Gagne can score when it matters most.
That is why I’d rather move Carter. He will give us more value with whatever, hopefully lose some salary and allow us to keep everybody we need to next offseason, and Gagne re-signs a cap friendly deal and retires as a Flyer and gets to hoist the cup here, and we’ll see the number 12 be hoisted up into the rafters.
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Unfortunately, he seems to be both the kind of guy that would take a paycut in his salary, as well as the kind of guy that would waive his NTC if he feels the Flyers need him to leave.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2010 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
well said
carter doesnt seem like a bad guy, but just a guy who is selfish with the puck. this is why he cant play with briere or giroux. all three of those guys are at their best when the puck is on their stick. briere has shown himself to be extremely effective with leino. ville also likes to carry the puck, but unlike carter, he kept danny involved, and feed him the puck. all carter did to get briere involved was let danny chase down his rebounds. carter doesnt need great players to be successful. he needs guys who dont mind digging the puck out and doing the dirty work, getting in front of the net and banging in rebounds. this is why something has got to give. briere or carter have to go. I cant see carter going to the wing.
by Champ Anderson on Jul 2, 2010 4:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Quoting angrycoder
was your first mistake if you’re trying to actually make an argument.
For the love of my fandom....
Please just let Gagne retire here. :[
I’m blaming fucking Jody Shelley for all of this. =/
Let's go Flyers!
and Leights. ugh for the cost of both of them we could have a better goalie. that’s 2.6 million right there which would have been enough for Turco
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure whether everyone saw this:
Talk of Flyers trying to unload Gagne’s contract to soften cap number. A source confirmed he name was brought up in the Tampa talks.
Sending him out to Tampa would be pretty harsh as well, because that team’s still in the midst of a rebuild. He would be going from a team looking to win now to a team that isn’t a cup contender.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2010 1:54 AM EDT reply actions
Actually, if Gagne plays on a line with Stamkos and St Louis, he could have a monster season. Then he becomes a UFA. He’d probably be able to either name his price or pick what team he wans to play for. That might be the nicest thing we could do for him (or, ya know, KEEP HIM!!!!).
Homer: Sorry, Simon, we’re going to move you in the interests of your career. See, we think you’ll have a better points total playing on the wing with Stamkos and St. Louis, as opposed to Richards and Carter. What more would you want in a contract year? The cup’s overrated! So do we have your agreement?
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2010 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions
As I said, the best thing to do would be to KEEP HIM!!!!! (I don’t think it can be said without multiple exclamation points). But if you were going to trade him, it seems like that’s the best option.
Where do you think is the best place to trade him to? (again, this is like answering what the best method of execution is, the answer is obviously none, but if you NEED to pick one…)
It may seem irrational in some respects (but we are talking about trading Gagne, and I would really want to KEEP HIM!!!!!!!!! above all other options), but I would like to trade him out West to one of the contenders. If we’re salary dumping then we’re looking for picks and prospects, and a contender will probably be more willing to give us a larger package of picks and prospects while also giving Gags a real opportunity at a cup. It would also mean I most likely would be able to safely root for Gagne, and that unless the Flyers face that team in the finals, we won’t have to worry about playing against Gags or the possibility of Jody Shelley laying some dirty hit on him at some point.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2010 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Hahah…let’s just wait and see on the rumors. I would rather waive Leighton, Cote, Bartulis and Shelley, freeing up about 3.6 million dollars in cap space. Then grab a real 3rd line winger for about 2 million, somehow reverse time and outbid the Rangers for Biron (because, you know, he’s 600k cheaper than Leighton), sign Powe for 700k, and keep Gagne. That would give us enough space to work with too.
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 2, 2010 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m relatively new to this site. I’ve been a hardcore flyers fan for about 14 or so years now. And I’m 20 years old. Therefore it’s obvious what Simon means to me.
I never fathomed the idea that he was loved this much. Obviously ye flyer faithful love all of our heros who don the orange and black, except Jody Shelley (TWO girl names might I add), but even at games I had no sense of the insane and borderline cult-ish Gagne man-love until BroadStreetHockey. I would be so hurt if he left this team in the midst of a re-load season where we’re getting ready to actually legitimately make a run at that god damned cup. There’s so much going right at the moment and it would just be a shame
That being said the Flyers are in quite a pickle with the cap. All options need to be explored. I don’t think anyone should ever be completely untouchable, that just undermines the team aspect to begin with. If a Gagne deal makes extreme sense then it needs to be welcomes in Flyers nation and on this site. We will always have Gagne nostalgia to look back on.
If they trade Gagne, then they need to sign Nabby and get a winger.
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Please No
Gagne has been a Flyer all his career and it would be a dumb move to get rid of him. In my opinion, Carter is the ideal choice. Next year both are going to need new contracts, gagne would prolly take a pay cut (4mil/season) while Carter would ask for more. Gagne is clutch at the best of times and plays well with Richie. Plus, Carter is a center, where the Flyers are stacked right now, and the Flyers could get more for Carter like a descent right wing plus a one or two good prospects (which they desperately need). And for the record, Homer I like you, but what were you f***ing thinking with the Jody Shelley signing? Both Carcillo and Powe are better, and come at cheaper prices
exactly. the Shelley move is mindbogglingly stupid
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I tended to agree about the Shelley move, too, until I thought that guys like Colton Orr, Boogaard, and that knucklehead Matt Cooke might think twice about skating as freely as they often do against the Flyers. I know the NHL has moved away from the enforcer role, but I still think they have some value in situations like that. It’s been ages since we’ve had anyone that can actually define enforcing as other than taking enough punches to the grill to make your face look like hamburger meat.
But, that said, I’d hate to see Gags go because I do love him. I’d rather see Carter gone, but that’s mainly because he has the tendency to infuriate me with what looks like semi-lazy play. Gags has missed a lot of time with concussions and injury, though. And I wonder if he might be considering hanging it up. Bad concussions are no joke.
I love the Flyers so much I even went to Bobby Clarke Day Camp.
by billy_pilgrim on Jul 2, 2010 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
the only way the shelley move makes sense is if carbomb is gone but I’d rather have carbomb b/c he has shown ability to score goals and even play on top line with ritchie. To me trading Gagne only makes sense if they can go get a wing and Nabby
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Q: Now that you have Jody Shelley, where does that leave Dan Carcillo?There’s always GM speak involved here, but nothing is set in stone for his departure yet
Well, he’s on our team right now. I don’t think you can compare the two really. Obviously they’re both tough players. Danny’s shown the ability at times to play up and down our lineup. To say Dan Carcillo is a first-line player is probably a little bit of a stretch, but he played it at times this year and actually produced some points for us when he was in that situation. In our viewpoint, I think they’re both in our lineup, and those are awful tough guys… we’ll be a hard team to play against. I think our fans are certainly going to take to Jody Shelley just the way they took to Danny Carcillo.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
ok so the plan is to clear space for Carbomb and a goalie?
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know what the hell the plan is, at this point I’m just praying he has one at all
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
trade away talent to clear up space for carbomb and probably a 34+ year old goalie might not be wise
well perhaps more along with that, like whatever the return is for gagne. maybe picks or prospects and maybe enough space to go sign Afinigenov or Svatos
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Gags worth the money... for one more year
I think gagne has the defensive pedigree to warrant keeping him around one more year. the guy has had some tought breaks recently, pun intended. you cant fault the guy for breaking his foot blocking a shot. there is a lot to be said about the fact that he is one of the longest tenured philly athletes. lets not poo poo that. right now, gagne is not worth 5 mill. he is a FA after this year, and I would have to believe he would work with the club on taking a home town discount. if trading gagne is about ensuring room for giroux and leino, then its a mistake. if gags is traded, all it does it raise more question about who will be on the wings. if claude giroux is our 3rd line center, and is subjected to an entire season with jody shelly as his RW, I am gonna flip out.
The logic for the move could be explained endlessly, and I would still hate it and oppose it.
I just hope the move doesn’t happen.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 2, 2010 6:05 AM EDT reply actions
Not sure that rumor can be trusted
I think the blogosphere has been inundated with hear-say because of a lack of trade activity in the last few days. Gagne has a no-movement clause, so I seriously doubt he gives that up on a whim. It’s much easier to move a player with a conventional no-trade clause or one without any stipulations than trade a guy with a NMC.
Remember that rumors had us signing Colby Armstrong, Anton Volchenkov and Dan Ellis yesterday, too.
by memphisbrando on Jul 2, 2010 7:02 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Remember that rumors had us signing Colby Armstrong, Anton Volchenkov and Dan Ellis yesterday, too.
I wish they had of instead the shit moves they ended up making. Thanks to Homer’s incompetence as a GM, we are now worrying about Gags getting dumped for cap, when, starting out yesterday, we actually had money to spend and no cap issues.
Leighton is now overpaid and not qualified to be a starting goalie. Mezaros was already overpaid and now he is on our books. Coburn is now overpaid. O’Donnell is being overpaid as a 38 year old 6th defensemen. And the cherry on top; wonder goon Jody Shelly (who has a grand total of 16 goals in his career) is making over a million dollars.
Goodness, and somehow Holmgren didn’t even address the team’s two biggest needs in all that mess!
Honestly, it doesn’t matter who is getting dumped for cap, because no one should have to be dumped yet! The only reason we now might need to dump cap is because Homer royally fucked everything up.
Honestly, Homer’s utter incompetence as GM is mind boggling. And the best part is, there is pretty much nothing he can do because he has hand cuffed himself so badly.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2010 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
What a difference 24 hours can make. Yesterday at this time, I was full of anticipation and this morning, the reality of the of the bad moves Holmgren made is just unbelievable.
In Latvia, they're rooting for Bartulis' team, the Filadelfijas Flaieri!
seriously. I am ok with some deals (o’donnell, mezsaros) but shelley, leights, and coburn are all overpaid. Homer probably could have gotten a cheaper 5th d-men as well (mez makes $4million) like foster. Should have saved the money spent on shelley, and leights and got a goalie. To see a goalie of Nabby’s caliber sitting out there to be had for a reasonable price, makes me slam my head against the wall. Mez better be good, and leights better pay on his head. If we dump Gagne and do nothing with the space we get in return, I am calling for Homer’s job
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Funny to think about...
For the price of Mezsaros and Shelley the Flyers could have Martin. I have to think Martin >>> Mezsaros + Shelley. But that doesn’t really help the current cap situation anyway, just another depressing thing I thought about yesterday.
DLJr once again Martin wasn’t going to sign here to play on the 3rd pair neither was Hamhuis neither was Volchekov. Hockey players don’t care as much about the money as other athletes. We were going to be able to convince a big ticket D-Men to come here and play on the 3rd pair when the rest of the league would be able to give them the same money and they could be the top guy. Getting PP minutes, making All-Star team etc.. The Flyers tried it wasn’t going to happen. That is reality no need to harp on over and over again presenting scenarios that didn’t exist.
still could have signed someone like Foster along with O’donnell instead of Mez
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I think DL’s point is that acquiring Mezaros and signing Shelley was an extremely poor use of money!
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I would agree with Foster and O’Donnell would have been a better move and landed a goalie but Mez true I am sure everyone could come up with their optimal scenario in how to use the money and everyone he didn’t get things their way would be flipping out right now just like you guys.
Bottom Line we are better than we were last year in my opinion at least. Did Homer do everything I wanted now but we didn’t lose any major pieces. Do I think other moves would have been better yes. Am I going to cry about it? No.
Remember last offseason much of the boards were hating on the Pronger aquistion we gave up too much, Sbisa oh no, draft picks blah blah blah. No matter what Homer did people some people would be upset. You can’t please everyone in a salary cap world.
Seriously how am I crying. I honestly like the players. I’ve said that. I just said I don’t like the $. I think the team has improved on the ice, but I also think they may have backed themselves in to a corner. Sorry if its an inconvenience to you that I like to discuss more than just the on ice product. In the future please feel free to ignore all my posts.
Thank god Mitch understood what I meant. All I did was make an observational joke about the way the Flyers spent their money yesterday, and for some reason that made you want to mount your high horse.
No, you can’t please everyone. And I partially agree with you, there are going to be some people that are not going to be happy no matter which moves are made and which players are signed.
However, I think that the reaction here are BSH, as you can see, is pretty much unanimously negative regarding Homer’s signings yesterday. Its pretty much impossible to put a positive spin on what happened. Sure, in theory, the defense is better with the acquisition of Mezaros and resigning of Coburn. But at what cost? Mezaros sure as hell isn’t worth $4 mil and, after watching Coburn for the last 3 seasons, its a hard sell to say he is worth $3.2 mil. Our goaltending situation is pretty poor and now we are paying more for shitty goaltending. I am not even going to go into Jody Shelley. Homer’s management of the money, so far, has been terrible.
We may be better than last year, but not by much. We saw the Flyers’ potential in the playoffs last season but don’t forget how mediocre and frustrating the regular season was. So far, I would imagine we will be seeing more of that.
The thing is, the Pronger acquisition had an upside. Sure we gave up a lot, but we got a lot back. So far, there is little upside to the moves Homer has made.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
It be different if there weren’t othet, cheaper options out there that provided the same value…but there were. It also be different if we still didn’t have issues in net or depth scoring at wing…but we do.
Maybe Chris is right, maybe no other dman was willing to come play for the best defensive lineup in the league, so Homer jade to usea trade. Ok, fair enough. But even with that assumption, the team is left with holes and no cap space. I don’t see how discussing that concern is a mortal sin.
I’m not sure how you can draw the conclusion of “little upside” when you haven’t seen a game with these players yet. While I wasn’t one of them, last July and August BSH had a ton of people saying the Pronger trade was a mistake. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying any of these moves are going to have the kind of impact Pronger has had, but again, let’s not draw final conclusions about the team on July 2.
As of right now, I see little upside to what Homer has done, especially in regards to the cap. They have done nothing that will put them over the top and have neglected to address their biggest needs.
Maybe this team will be awesome come October. I’m not expecting it. Regardless, Homer has fucked our salary cap issues.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I1. What scenarios am I harping on. I just brought this up as something that was frustrating given the $ figures given out yesterday. I never said it was realistic that Martin would sign here, just frustrated with the way money was used, and gave an example as why it depressed me.
2. What’s with this once again stuff? This is the first time Martin’s name was mentioned by me.
3. Are you just trying to start argument. You take a statement I made that was cleary tagged as something funny to think about, which I think makes it obvious that I’m venting, and you try to call me out for an argument. Really?
Really!
This time 24 hours ago I was eagerly anticipating some very good signings by Homer. He seemed to be doing the right things before July 1st by getting Hamhuis’s rights and getting a 3rd for him (and Pitt doesn’t sign him and loses out in that deal), gets a 7th rounder for Parent, tries for Nabokov before July 1st. With all of that I was thinking he was going to have an amazing offseason like in 2007. Then I read we got Meszaros and I thought it was good. A little pricey and we may have been able to do better with the money, but he’s young, and I feel one who will do well with a change of scenery from Tampa.
Then it all went downhill. Coburn I feel being very overpaid. He was an RFA, we could have gotten him for the tendered offer, or gotten picks and used that money to get somebody just as good or better. (Nothing against Coburn, I feel he has a lot of great potential and just had an off-season like the rest of the team, but based on that we could have gotten him for less). Leights being 600K more than Biron and the same as Ellis and close to Mason?? I’m cool with O’Donnell because people say he’s a Lappy type of player, and I wouldn’t mind that, he may even make me think of Gator when he’s out there.
Shelley was just a completely boneheaded move. Why do we need a goon who can’t score and overpay him? Carcillo isn’t an enforcer, but he is an agitator and I feel works better nowadays, and not to mention Carcillo has an offensive upside and would have come cheaper, but it seems he’s going elsewhere.
And now the Gagne trade rumor. What a cap to the day. I am not looking forward to what today may bring. Hopefully nothing, or something like “Shelley signing voided by (insert possible reason)” and somehow fix Leighton. I’ll live with Coburn for now. At least nobody signed has a NTC.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 2, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I just want to stress that I am not giving my “seal of approval” to the deals made yesterday — quite frankly, most left me scratching my head. But I take the whole “Gagne is being traded” rumor with a grain of salt … at least, for now.
by memphisbrando on Jul 2, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
My point is that the whole "Gagne is being traded" rumor should never have been brought up. It is Homer’s complete incompetence that has brought it up the conversation because we are now talking about needing to make cap space!
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
O’Donnell’s not overpaid. You don’t think O’Donnell is $400,000 better than Bartulis or $145,000 better than Parent? Besides, Pronger was recruiting him, apparently. If Chris Pronger thinks he’s good enough to actively help him to sign here, that’s good enough for me, and quite frankly should be good enough for you, too.
I guess. I just feel like $1 mil for a 6th defensemen is a bit much, especially considering the Flyers have cap issues. I will take O’Donnell over Bartulis any day. The deal I have the least issue with is the O’Donnell signing obviously.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
My 8yr old son will be devasted, he wears #12 himself. All the reasons listed as why to get rid of him should also drive his price down. I saw signs of the the younger #12 during the Cup run, he brings leadership and heart. Homer if you want to become a better team ship out Carter. 2 open net goals in 2 different seasons in 2 very crucial games. Sure he can put a big numbers during the reg. season just like Ilya Kovalchuk, but neither does squat when it counts. Let’s give Gags a new 2 yr deal
This is probably some of the most infantile logic brought to this discussion yet.
I have a son as well, mines 4. IF he had a jersey and was upset about it, I’d explain to him that people have jobs and sometimes they have to change them, just like sometimes kids change teams.
Your logic in terms of playoff performance with Gags vs. Carter is the worst part of your comment, since you brought it up, along with other misguided individuals who have posted drivel to this thread. It also certainly makes sense to factor in that Gags has been in the league for 11 seasons.
So let’s just take a look at the years that Carter has been on the team:
2005-2006
Gags played 6 games, had 4 pts.
Carter played 6 games, had 0 pts. (Carter was a rookie, but you’re off to a roaring start).
2006-2007
CRAP.
Moving on.
2007-2008
Gags played… CRAP.
Carter played 17 games has 11 pts.
2008-2009
Gags played 6 games had 4 pts.
Carter played 6 games had 1 pt.
2009-2010
Gags played 19 games, had 12 pts.
Carter played 12 games had 7 pts.
Sorry to have to throw out the facts in the face of your passionate argument that Gags is 2x the player Carter is, but in the time that the 2 have been playing together, well Jeff Carter the chokemaster has put up 19 pts, and Gags put up 20.
Gags had a great run this year under some very tough circumstances. I’ve loved the guy since he entered the league, and just happened to be at the Spectrum for his first game. Considering all the surgery and the concussions, I think his return has been heroic, and I also believe that he has a lot left in his tank, and being at a point where he might be truly healthy for the first time in years, the Flyers should be keeping him, and I do not buy into the rumors about his trade at all.
But with that said, I’m just sick and tired of the Jeff Carter bashing, when Carter was one of the few people who kept the ship afloat this season, which gave Simon a chance to quite frankly redeem his reputation as someone who falls off in the playoffs. Carter got a couple of bum breaks, and had he not suffered those foot breaks, was on course to have a very good playoff. There’s no way to know for sure, but Carter did pretty well under the circumstances.
Gags did in 31 and Carter did it in 41. Seeing as you are entering ad hominem territories, might point out that’s shoddy analysis.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2010 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Ad hominem would be making personal attacks, not pointing out that the fact that you bought your kid a Gagne jersey and he’s gonna be upset if the guy gets traded, isn’t a reason to value Gagne over Carter.
There’s nothing Shoddy about the analysis at all - for brevity I had to leave out +/, goals vs. assists and all sorts of other details that don’t have anything to do with the question at hand. I also left out the regular season, which people making this argument seem to forget is a necessary prerequisite to even getting to the playoffs, as well as Gagne’s previous playoff history, which has not exactly been stellar.
I do like Simon Gagne, and I think he’s going to have a really good year this year, based on his performance during the last 3rd of 2010. Prior to that, I had to question whether he was damaged goods, and I certainly wasn’t alone. I would rather that the Flyers keep him although I understand that they are in fairly dire cap territory and something is going to give.
LIke many people I assumed given the Center glut that Jeff Carter was the most likely moving part, but with that said, people are serious denial here if they don’t admit that in the last 3 years, Jeff Carter has been the nucleus of the team, and Simon Gagne has been at best a bit player, with long periods of MIA/recuperation time. When teams were playing the Flyers, they were designing around and reacting to Jeff Carter’s play, not Simon Gagne’s play. This is what the Flyers organization has been saying, and people don’t want to hear the truth sometimes. I think the Flyers get plenty of smaller details wrong, but that’s often business.
I think the playoff comparisons between these guys are silly myself, but if people want to speak in absolutes — well there you go — in absolute terms the difference between their performances was 1 pt. Put that in your spreadsheet and shoddy it.
When you begin by labelling someone’s logic as ‘infantile’, you are pushing into ad hominem territories. Anyway, I do agree that Carter’s ‘choking’ is overstated. But I also look at the depth chart and see Carter as no. 2/3 in the centers and Gagne as no. 1 on the wingers. If Carter was a winger, there’s no doubt he would be higher than Gagne. But he’s not. And he gets us more in return without us having to give up our top winger who also takes the role of the heart and soul of the team and its fanbase.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Well you have me, I probably shouldn’t have used that term, although it’s still not a personal attack. I’m not a big fan of his handle, and then opening with the sentimentality, I probably took a bit of frustration out on our friend “Crosby sucks”. ;)
Funny how one overly dramatic word can cause these types of reactions.
At the end of the day, this wasn’t the move I expected, I’m not a fan of it, and I don’t see how it makes our situation at wing any better unless there’s something major happening that none of us is expecting. I had come to terms with the logic behind a Carter trade, but a Gagne salary dump is something I will be just as angry about as anyone else. I just wish that people would stop making it about Carter vs. Gags, which isn’t fair to either player.
This is where it gets dicey. I love Gagne, love him, but if they’re going to try to unload an NTC player, who will people take? We have Gagne with 1 year on his contract and a relatively reasonable cap hit for his talent level although there is injury risk (which I don’t think is as high as some people think, but it’s there), Hartnell whose cap hit may look frightening after this regular season and they have to take for 3 years, or Briere who has a high cap hit and they have to take for 5 years, NMC and all? I’m afraid Gagne is the only one other teams would take… /Sighs
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
This seems the easier and more fitting solution, doesn’t it? If Gagne refuses to be traded, there’s nothing the team can do. If Hartnell refuses to be traded, the team can always reply, “You can be a King next year … or a Phantom.” Besides, Gagne scores more than Hartnell. Hartnell’s best asset is his physical play and Shelley more than makes up for any loss of grit in losing Hartnell.
by memphisbrando on Jul 2, 2010 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
or we try to move him down to be a phantom and someone picks him up and F’s us for the season with cap space. Don’t compare Hartnell to Shelly. Shelly is just a goon. Hartnell can play at a top forward level and shift games in our favor. That is when he decides to play. Don’t forget he was going through a lot of personal issues last year.
by SkookFlyerfan on Jul 2, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not arguing that Hartnell is better than Shelley, I’m arguing that Gagne is better than Hartnell. If I had to choose between Gagne and Hartnell, I would rather lose Hartnell than Gagne.
by memphisbrando on Jul 2, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
You have quite a few players in Gagne’s mold—Briere, Giroux, Carter—who are goal scorers/finesse players. You need a healthy, good Hartnell to win games. He’s a different type of player. A role player. Gotta have those in order to win a cup.
"Tortorella’s got it all wrong ... Gaborik shouldn’t be messing with our skilled player." -Peter Luukko
hartnell is younger, had a terrible season, has longer contract and a nmc, he picked it up in playoffs once on a line with briere and leino, and he provides something no one else on the team does (a net presence to bang in ugly goals). not happening
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Or… you could try to move a center since we seem to have so many of them. Maybe one with an expiring contract and no NTC? Since we seem to be bound up by the EPICALLY STUPID moves of yesterday and now may not have a choice…
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
that would only make sense. My fear is that trading Carter will come back to haunt us in the future
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank God for Leino! Without him, the Flyers would have yet another hole for Homer NOT to address…
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I love Gagne too I am don’t think moving him makes sense unless they get something really good in the return package which is unlikely to happen. I really feel we take our run at the cup with the best team we can ice this season and if we lose Gagne next summer I am okay with that.
1) When Gagne misses 3 months again this year Travis has to re-post this thread to hold everyone accountable when the we should have traded Gagne in the Summer bitching starts up.
2) This rumor is coming out of Canada involving a french Canadian player in Gagne. According to TSN and Rogers Sportsnet the Flyers have been trying to trade Gagne or Briere pretty much every season since the lockout. Personally I am surprised they haven’t moved on to Giroux yet but they will. I don’t take this very seriously at all. Everyone should calm down and Blame Canada.
http://www.fromtherink.com/2010/7/2/1548883/the-harsh-lesson-of-nabokov-and
The harsh lesson of Nabokov and Turco
by mike chen
“If there ever was a time when an NHL free agent needed the help of Doc Brown and the Delorean, it’d be today. In fact, Evgeni Nabokov and Marty Turco probably would have taken out McFly and Doc themselves and whisked their way back to, oh, a week ago to send a note to their younger selves:
Sign the deal. Now.
Goaltending is obviously the most unique position for any hockey team. There’s only one, so there’s only 30 starting jobs in the league. It’s not like a defenseman or forward who can be signed as a low-end guy and work his way up the lineup. As Heidi Klum would say, you’re either in or you’re out (well, kind of; you could still get back-up minutes). For Nabokov and Turco, they gambled and lost — for all practical purposes, they’re out. If you look at goaltending across the board, there’s really nowhere they can go unless they drop their contract demands and a team wants to have veteran support for their young goalies (such as Columbus with Steve Mason).
In the salary cap world, supply-and-demand controls free agency more than ever. And with long-term contracts becoming more commonplace, teams can easily get hamstrung by their previous commitments long before free agency even opens up. Let this be a lesson to free agents in upcoming seasons — if the market really isn’t looking good and a favorable situation opens up to you, it might be worth swallowing your pride and taking less dollars instead of playing chicken with your career.
Star-divide
Several weeks ago, word came that the San Jose Sharks were interested in talking with Evgeni Nabokov; I theorized that they’d ask him to take a significant hometown discount. Obviously, Nabokov thought he could make more on the open market. Perhaps he’ll land somewhere in a platoon position or get a big paycheck in the KHL, but chances are he won’t find the same talent in front of him.
Similarly, the Philadelphia Flyers made overtures at both Nabokov and Marty Turco and both decided to test the market. Turco reportedly turned down a three-year, $6 million deal before the Flyers resigned Michael Leighton. Now, chances are Turco won’t get to play on a Stanley Cup contender and his options will be extremely limited.
Antero Niittymaki landed in San Jose. The Atlanta Thrashers picked up Chris Mason while Dan Ellis went to Tampa Bay. Even third-tier free agent goaltenders found homes, such as Alex Auld and Andrew Raycroft. And yet, the cream of the crop priced themselves out of a job.
Just about everyone saw this coming, from fans to bloggers to mainstream media. How did Turco and Nabokov not realize it? Did their agents give them bad advice or did they simply refuse to see it was coming? If the Stanley Cup Final featured Ryan Miller and Roberto Luongo, perhaps it’d have pushed teams to invest their dollars in goaltending. However, the recent years have shown that goaltending doesn’t take up a significant percentage of successful team payrolls and it was a buyer’s market this particular year.
Supply and demand: it’s a pretty basic principle that you learn in any elementary economics course. Perhaps it’s time the NHLPA gave their players a primer on this before heading into free agency. While Nabokov and Turco have every right to make their contract demands, the bottom line is that they really weren’t in a position of strength. Unfortunately for them, they’re hindered by their position; I really don’t see this trend happening regularly for forwards or defense, but if I’m part of next year’s goalie crop, I’d be very careful about counting the number of open positions and free agents before I turn down any offers. "
Those two are so dumb for turning down the Flyers
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 9:36 AM EDT reply actions
Well no one is going to give him what he wanted so when he finally does get a job it’s likely a backup job and probably close to that $2 million (if not less). Had he accepted he’d be the starter on a cup favorite
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I still don’t get why Homer doesn’t want to trade Carter. I understand guys like that don’t grow on trees, but he doesn’t fit into this lineup right now. We aren’t building a fantasy team.
well Carter is younger than gagne and has great unfulfilled potential and has a game built for the wing. The only problem is his salary and perceived unwillingness to go to the wing. Carter on the wing can be great but it really depends on his effort.
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Perceived unwillingness
Where does this come from exactly. It seems like someone mentioned off the cuff somewhere along the lines of Carter prefers to be in the middle and that somehow became Carter refuses to play wing or won’t play. It went viral and I yet to find a direct quote or sound bit of him saying the other.
I also realize we all love Giroux and the brilliance he shows on ice but are completely over looking he is a RW by trade and is technically also playing out of position at center. I am pretty sure Giroux would be a huge asset on the RW of Gagne-Richards line if Carter doesn’t work out. Neither player was given a real opportunity to do so because the team was couldn’t afford to give any points away during the regular season. GIven a full training camp and summer to work it all out one of those guys will be a very good fit on the RW on the top line they have too much talent not to make it work.
yeah I’m not worried about the wings right now. To me the cap and goalie situation is the problem. I just don’t think that Leights is a starter that can win us a cup and I’d rather have Nabby and know that we can have him for a reasonable price
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
You could be right, maybe it’s just been blown out of proportion by the media and the fans because it hasn’t worked yet. Carter at center between Giroux and could be a great line. But we still need to look down the line to next year. Can we keep Carter at $6-7 million and then still have enough room to resign Giroux and Leino? I doubt it.
Giroux, JVR, and Leino. Leino looks ridiculously good right now
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I doubt they touch the Hartnell-Briere-Leino line unless someone gets hurt or they struggle out of the gate.
oh I wasn’t suggesting breaking up 2nd line. merely that Leino, Giroux, and JVR’s contracts all expire soon and we need to resign them and Carter makes that difficult
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d actually really love to see Giroux on the top line with Richards and (hopefully still) Gagne. That could potentially be so badass.
I think G actually fits better with Carter. Richards and Gagne aren’t too proud to go mucking in the corners, and while Gagne has a decent shot it’s not Carter’s. They’re also all very balanced players – Gags and Richie can make up for an unbalanced RW easily (and by unbalanced I mean single-skill, not Carbomb-insane) so they don’t need another all-around player like Giroux with them. With Giroux’s playmaking and ability to cover the puck below the net, he can feed that wicked wrister of Carter’s all day, every day. Get JVR to eat some buffet food and park him in front of the net to pretend to be Johnny-(LeClair)-on-the-spot. Goal after goal after goal ensue. Add that to the Harts-Briere-Leino line scoring at will, and the Richards line can play reduced minutes – saving Gagne’s aging body and the potential liability on RW as well as letting Richards be fresh for special teams ice time.
As a side note, the Shelley move still puzzles me.
I understand that Shelley was valued as by Rangers fans, for his locker room presence and his physicality. Maybe it’s his experience and ability to choose smart fights that appeals to Homer.
But we already have behind-the-scenes, off-the-stat-sheet guys that we love like Lappy and Betts. And even though Carcillo’s still a hothead sometimes, he’s getting better at control and has some skills. Plus he’s younger and doesn’t have a 1.1 mil cap hit.
Is there something we’re not seeing in Shelley? Is he a deceptively effective player and a great teammate? And is it just me or does his player profile pic look like Andy Samberg in Jizz in my Pants?
by Giroux-ling for Cheese on Jul 2, 2010 10:11 AM EDT reply actions
If the Flyers can somehow find some extra cap space, the Shelley move seems less damaging. But if the team remains pressed up against the cap, it doesn’t make sense to me to sign a fighter to a >$1M contract, even if he’s one of the best fighters in the league.
by memphisbrando on Jul 2, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
If he was an effective defensive forward and was able to kill penalties, then sure, this is a fine move but he isn’t, as I can tell, thus he really does not fit anywhere in our lineup.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
even if we were looking for a defense forward who can kill penalties, we shouldn’t have to look at free agents to do that. Nodl fills that role, so even if Shelley could do those things it’s a waste of cap space. If they were going to add a forward it should have been a skilled player to play on the 3rd line with JVR and Giroux.
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly! There are so many angles of signing Shelley that are just plain and simple make absolutely no sense…
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 2, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Aren’t we overanalyzing it? Sometimes a head made of cement is a head made of cement. Clearly the Flyers want to have a guy they can send out like a heat seaking missile, who holds down a roster spot for no other reason than he can skate up and down the ice without embarrasing himself, throw a huge body at opposing players, and drop the gloves with goons on the other team, or go after their skill players when the Flyers want to send a message.
Anyone who has seen that Snyder, bless his heart, still believes you need someone like this, and obviously so does Clarke, and this all trickles down to Homer who was an enforcer as well.
It all boils down to the fact that at 6’3", Shelley is the type of player that the Flyers were hoping Cote might turn into but just didn’t have the skills.
As much as I wish the Flyers would just turn the page on this type of thinking, I don’t think they ever will so long as Ed Snyder and Bobby Clarke are running the organization.
Real_ESPNLeBrun:
Spoke with Turco’s agent, Kurt Overhardt. They will patient and wait for right fit, whether that comes soon or it takes ``three months.’’
Apparently goalies named Marty don’t understand their value on free agent market. Any one else think that Turco and Nabby look really dumb for turning down the Flyers
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 10:17 AM EDT reply actions
Depends on their motivation and financial situation. Especially with Nabby, I find it hard to understand why he wouldn’t want a chance at a cup with a team that is built for just such a run, and in particular a marquee D in front of him which would give him a really good chance to shine.
Some of this may be the “Canadien factor” which in a nutshell is the argument that for Canadien players, they all grow up with the boyhood dream of the cup drilled into them from the first day they step on the ice, whereas the European and eastern bloc players don’t really get that.
I also wonder about the long time perception of the Flyers as a Canadien-centric team that has never gone for eastern block players in their system. For all we know Nabby simply doesn’t want to play for the Flyers organization.
Good Looking Team
Honestly, I’m doing quite fine with this post season. We made our d one of the best in the league. I’m still pissed as hell with the Leighton contract, but very happy with the Meszaros, Colburn, and even Shelley signing (Shelley was one of the best players for the Rangers at the end of the season when they made their little run- and he protects our players- yes, I would give 1 mil for that!). Yes, I think we overpaid for each, but I rather over pay a little than see the flyers not do anything. And as much as I hate to say it, gags needs to be traded (unless he renegotiates 2 mil off his contract- and if he did he would be a Flyers Hero forever). Just think what we could do with that 6 mil- goalie, wing, come one- and get to keep Carter, who has a lot of year left and is just going to get better.
I really can’t believe that I kinda looking for a gags trade- I love the man (no homo)
I’d love to watch this team with Nabby in net but it doesn’t look like it will happen
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
why not? i mean it with 6 mil in room- who know (i mean it really prob wont be 6 mil unless they only trade for a 1 round draft pick, which knowing homer and his love for the draft, will never happen) but with the goalie market the way it is and the cap space we could have- who knows
According to ESPN:
Flyers could still chase Nabokov
Or Turco. But they have to deal someone, first.
and this:
Flyers could trade Gagne
They need to clear space. Maybe Carter will come into play, too.
I feel these two rumors are interrelated. They want Nabby but need to trade Gagne. What is Nabby worth now in terms of a contract? $4 million? 3.5 million? I wouldn’t sign him for more than that in this market. and if that happens what do the flyers do with the extra cap space? resign carbomb and powe or go out and get someone else?
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
You can’t renegotiate contracts. It is against the CBA.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
thank you! I honestly didn’t know- is there anyway in which he could cut some cap space from his contract?
No
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
There might be a way, but I think DG’s going to tell me it violates the spirit of the CBA. I don’t see anything preventing a team from buying out a player’s contract and then signing them to another contract. However, it wouldn’t really make sense with Gagne’s contract. To have a reduced cap hit this year, his new contract would have to have a hit of less than $1.75m, which ain’t happening. It would very rarely make sense, and be a complete PITA, and probably violates the spirit of the CBA and would get nixed by the commissioner, but I’m just trying to be creative.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
It’s explicitly prohibited in the sections about Compliance Buyouts from when the CBA first began after the lockout, but this would be an Ordinary Course buyout and the rules are different. I haven’t found that language in the ordinary course buyout section, it could be possible but I really have to read it again. Even still, the Flyers wouldn’t be going that route, anyway.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
A good destination for Carter? the wild
Via epsn rumors
“Wild may be done
Next move: Find a top-six center via trade.”
Perfect for us. Trade Carter out west to min, get good package of picks and maybe a wing in return, go sign Nabby
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 10:50 AM EDT reply actions
Makes so much sense ...
there’s no way Homer will do it!
I love the Flyers so much I even went to Bobby Clarke Day Camp.
by billy_pilgrim on Jul 2, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe, would be cheap and would hopefully get a good package in return. harding is RFA so isn’t signed but might be good to compete with Leights but I doubt that Homer trades Carter at all
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Carter for Harding, Brunette, and picks?
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 11:04 AM EDT reply actions
Gagne
That would be a tough pill to swallow, but as someone pointed out, at the end of the day, hockey is still a business. There really is no room for sentimental value in business.
Let’s face it. Gagne is an injury risk, each and every time he steps on the ice and as he ages, his value decreases.
Now might be the perfect time to trade him, get a cheaper LW, sign a legitimate starting goalie, get some picks back and free up some cap space.
At the end of the day, trading Gagne is a much smarter move than trading Carter, regardless of how you feel about each player.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 2, 2010 11:06 AM EDT reply actions
sad but true. He have to see Gagne in terms of his contract/ cap hit ($5 million for one year). If we free up $5 million what can we get. Picks for gagne? good refill system with good prospects. A better goalie? we can have Nabby or Turco on the cheap. A younger winger that can score? hopefully would have enough cash left to do this
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Waiving Leighton More Likely than Moving Gagne
I posted some of this last night in the original Gagne thread which now appears to be gone. (Travis?) It would have been interesting to look at for some of you since it was more or less a crying fest over Gagne. Look, most of you don’t remember a time when the Flyers traded people everyone loved. The closest to this is maybe Brind Amour (but we got something back for that) and the Lindros debacle, (but Hexy and others were not loved like Gagne). But this is really the Flyers mode over the years, to try to trade early than keep too long (when Lonsberry and Kindrachuk were traded I was really upset, yada yada). Most of the time those deals, ironically, do not usually work out for the Flyers.
Having said that, I strongly doubt these rumors, for all sorts of reasons, other than the normal “just checking” mode that is required for any GM. I’m guessing RAJ would even listen to offers for Utley, but of course it would have to include Lincecum, and Cain, and Buster Posey. You get the idea. But the fact that Gagne has an NTC and has been injured means that any trade would have serious impediments on both ends. Not impossible, but not very likely.
Now what could happen is that Leighton and Shelley and others could simply be waived. (Note: I spent last night reading the CBA on this and believe this is correct, although it might be grieved). This is also not likely, but it is more likely than trading Gagne. We are blessed in Flyerland in that Comcast has never shied away from spending $$ and spending salary over the cap. Mike Rathje, thanks for not playing and please pick up your parting gifts. That’s not true in Predators-land….something like Rathje would be devastating, and they spend closer to the minimum than the maximum anyway.
What is really confusing and cloudy to me is whether they really would trade Carter. Remember, he is RFA next year. We have to at least get what he would be worth if we let him walk….which could be, yikes, as much as four first rounders They also like him very much. Having said that, I am very willing to trade him for the right price (yeah, Ryan or maybe the Wild trade), and he is the most moveable chip. But I am not sure the Flyers are willing. They remember giving up on people early too.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
i doubt they would waive guys they just signed. Boosh and Cote are more likely to get waived right now. I am not opposed to trading Gagne as long as we get plenty back in return. For $5 million next year, we can have a better starting goalie and maybe a skilled winger and would probably get picks or prospects for Gagne
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Not likely. Just more likely than moving Gagne. I am merely trying to stop people from jumping off the bridge.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
I'm wrong and I'm embarassed
Look, I teach strategy (at a state university, no joke). This is a mess if SanFillippo’s reports are true. All this for Turgid? Homer, please take my class since you don’t understand this concept.
If this is all about signing Carcillo, Powe and Turco, shame on you Homer. Why did you sign Shelley? Leighton? Trade for Mesazos (spelling, not looking it up because I’m angry now)?
I get that you need $$$ next year. Fine. Let him walk then. But making him waive his NTC?? Get Briere or Hartnell to do this! (there will be a Bygfulien effect, now. Sell High). .
One thing I am right about above: a simpler answer is simply to waive the players you stupidly signed and eat the $$. The fanbase would be much happier with Gagne than all of the players I listed above. Simply don’t sign Carcillo, or man up and admit your error and waive Leighton and Shelley etc. I get that Gagne might “need” to be traded. Except…you just opened up another hole in the lineup and didn’t improve the squad much. And ripped the fanbase up.
This better yield Nabokov and draft choices. At least.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
I put pretty much all my thoughts on this in the Fan Post I posted earlier this morning. So if you’re insterested, you can check it there.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
whats probably going to happen
things remain the same, maybe we wave a couple players to clear up space. bring up some young guys, see how carts and gags play and whatever happens before the trade deadline determines what happens after… since he is making some serious cake, thinking a guy like kimmo gets traded before the deadline, if we feel confident enough with mesz and odonnell that is
I’d have no problem with a trade. If Giroux and JVR improve in production this year, it could replace Gagne’s missing offense. And in a trade, the Flyers would get an asset in some form, rather than watch a player walk after the season.
Peeps are clamoring for a winger, but has Carter spent more than a few games in a row on the wing? He can’t be converted to fill Gagne’s role? I don’t know if this is common knowledge, but Gagne was drafted as a center and he did just fine moving to the wing. I have a hard time believing a talented player like Carter couldn’t make the same adjustment.
For my daily hockey thoughts, visit http://ronnybrook.wordpress.com
by ronnybrook.blog on Jul 2, 2010 11:48 AM EDT reply actions
fine as long as we then get a goalie. Nabby is waiting. Trade gags, convert Carter to wing, get picks/ prospects
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to throw fuel on the fire, but ...
Whichever team loses out on signing Kovalchuk is going to be desperate to add a high-scoring left wing to their team.
there’s only one team bidding on Kovalchuk and the other team that was bidding was the devils and not even Homer is dumb enough to trade Gagne to the devils
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Coburn is "overpaid?"
I know this is a little off-topic but I’m confused about something.
Coburn was making 1.5 million last year, yes?
It was reported before free agency began that Powe, Carcillo, and Coburn were all tendered qualifying offers from the Flyers, and that said offers most likely featured a 110% raise from their current salaries. Am I correct about this?
If so, what is 110% of 1.5 million? Why, it’s 1.65 million!
$1,500,000 × 110% = $1,650,000
So let’s add the raise to the base salary:
$1,650,000 + $1,500,000 = $3,150,000
And what is Coburn making now?
$3,200,000
So, if he’s “overpaid,” then he’s overpaid by $50,000.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I think qualifying offers have to be 10% higher than the old salaries, not 110%. If that’s what you’re referring to…
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Granted, this is from About.com, but here ye be:
Players who earned less than $660,000 in the previous season must be offered 110 percent of last season’s salary. Players making up to $1 million must be offered 105 percent. Players making over $1 million must be offered 100 percent.
So at minimum, Coburn needed to be offered 100% of his salary. If this is the case then he is “overpaid” by $200,000.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I’ve been going off of this.
http://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2010/6/28/1542150/understanding-restricted-free
Teams must offer all pending RFAs a qualifying offer- which is their previous salary +10% (or more), or else those players become UFAs.
Where’s Jen? We need a CBA breakdown.
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
K, just checked the CBA.
(A) if the Player’s prior year’s Paragraph 1 NHL Salary is less
than or equal to $660,000 for that League Year, 110% of
the prior year’s Paragraph 1 NHL Salary.
(B) if the Player’s prior year’s Paragraph 1 NHL Salary is
greater than $660,000, but less than $1,000,000 for that
League Year, 105% of his prior year’s Paragraph 1 NHL
Salary, but in no event to exceed $1,000,000.
© if the Player’s prior year’s Paragraph 1 NHL Salary is equal
to or greater than $1,000,000 for that League year, 100% of
the prior year’s Paragraph 1 NHL Salary.
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. Coburn falls under paragraph C, so in that sense he is “overpaid” by $200K.
Any additional money would look good to the Flyers right about now, but 200K is not a lot in the grand scheme of things. Coburn is getting a little more than what he is technically worth.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Yo, Need Some Math Wizzes Here
/rocky
This means:
Players making $660,000 must be offered $726,000.
Players making $1,000,000 must be offered $1,000,000.
Now, this is WRONG since there is some kind of escalator clause in the CBA (I believe it is either 5 or 10% per year, I just tried to find this). Thus, I believe the amounts are now something like $800K/$1 million and 1.25/$1.5 million instead of $660,000 and $1 millon. (now we need Jen or others).
Thus, Carcillo made 893,000. What I am not sure about is whether had to be escalated. If the above escalator amount is in the lower range, and he needed to be offered $982,000, this small difference in salary I believe is part of the reason for getting Shelley at $1.1 (but I totally agree Shelley still feels like a fail for strategy reasons)
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
I think you’re thinking in terms of how the minimum league salary increases each year, or how the RFA compensation amounts are adjusted based on the percentage year-to-year increase of average league salary (not cap hit, actual salary). Those monetary increases are noted within their specific sections, while the Qualifying offer sheets do not contain a clause for those amounts to be on a sliding scale. Those numbers are fixed.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 2, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
*Thanks* and question
I see that now. Oops. Am I still right about the $726 and $1 million amounts though, (salary not cap hit)? Because if it is a one or two year contract, the cap hit would likely not be much different, right?
FYI, I’m looking at CBA section 10.2. (is that’s the right section)
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
Cap hit is an average, so for the contract made from the offer sheet they’ll usually be close because there are no bonuses at this stage. But the entry level contracts most RFAs are coming out of often have bonuses in the cap hit or a staggered salary, and so the previous years’ salary can vary widely from the previous years’ cap hit. One just has be sure to use the right starting number.
You had parts of it right, but I’ll lay it all out anyway… Players making 500k (league min) to 660k last year get a 10% raise; $660,001 to $999,999 get a 5% raise but the total’s not to exceed $1M; and any player who made $1M last year has to make at least the same amount.
The only flaw was that you accidentally used Carcillo’s cap hit instead of his salary as your starting point; his cap hit was $893,750, but his salary last year was $937,500. So his offer sheet would have to be a 5% raise from that, or $984,375.
Now these are just the mandated minimums, teams can go higher with their offers if they chose. It just happens that if a team gives an offer that doesn’t at least meet those conditions, then they lose their right to match that offer sheet or to receive draft picks as compensation if the player signs elsewhere.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2010 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, Great Stuff...and it supports my earlier comment.
In the original post, way up there, what I was trying to get at is why Homer gave 1.1 to Shelly…if the minimum was 984K (even higher than I thought) then the difference is not significant between Shelly and Carcillo..and maybe Danny asked for 1.2 or 1.3 as a negotiation start.
Of course, this is all stupid if the end game is no Gagne.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
From Puck Daddy’s live blog
Steve McAllister:
Sam, wouldn’t someone go after Nabby. Seems to me he’s a guy who’ll benefit from a change in scenery.
Friday July 2, 2010 12:23 Steve McAllister
12:26
SamMcCaig:
Who needs a goalie? And has enough cap space to sign Nabokov? The list is short…Philly might want him, but they’d need to trade away some salary (hence, the Gagne speculation, I suppose)…Washington prob going with Varlamov-Neuvirth…not a lot of openings left.
So Nabby is headed to KHL?
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions
That is why we don’t like the Soviets it is not about the Cup it is about the money. It has been ever since Ed Snider told the Red Army team they were not getting paid. Capitalism > Pride.
I still feel that had Homer been smarter and waited to make deals or not made them (shelley, leights) we could have Nabby for $3 million a year
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
But where are you getting that extra 1.35? Surely you’re not suggesting the Flyers should have passed up Jody Shelley?
I’m sure that passing on Shelley (1.1 million), not resigning Leights (1.55 million), and waiving Cote and boosh you’d have enough to sign Nabby or maybe instead of taking on a $4million contract in Meszaros they could have gone with a defensemen like Foster or Eaton. Granted I know Mez is young and has lots of potential and should do well on pp
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Help me out here
Is it that about 99% of the Gagne going rumor comes from 2 guys at one station? I don’t like Kypreos (does anyone like a player who deliberately injures another?) and I’m tired of MacLean going on and on, but that’s not to say they haven’t got what they said right.
But…has Mirtle or Lebrun or MacKenzie or Dreger been on this or commented? If so, I haven’t seen it and it makes me wonder because usually when something as big as a lifetime star of one team possibly being traded or whatever at least is commented on, if not confirmed.
And there’s been no reply to the email to the agent as well, right?
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
espn had two flyers’ rumors stating that Flyers want to clear space and still might be after Nabby/ Turco. Someone else stated that Tampa said that Gagne came up in talks. Puck Daddy also speculated that flyers might still want a goalie and need to clear space. They might all be using the same source though
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
McKenzie has brought up Gagne’s name a few times as potentially part of a Tim Thomas acquisition, but I don’t know if that was just speculation on his part or a source’s part or whether that was really something the Flyers were considering.
no way in hell are Flyers trading for Thomas. That just makes no sense at all as you can get a goalie (nabby) of equal or greater value on free agent market for less, and it doesn’t help the cap at all.
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
If anything Flyers trade Gagne for picks/prospects, sign nabby or turco and then resign powe and carbomb
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks hwb,dljr and Ben
That kinda confirms what I thought: SG is a big deal in Canada and guys like Mirtle, Lebrun, MacKenzie and Dreger are really plugged in, so I think the total lack of comments by them on the “talk of Flyers trying to unload Gagne’s contract” and especially on the “Gagne has played his last game as a Flyer.” is significant. They must not have heard anything to confirm Kypreos and MacLean.
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
What's great is all the love that's being shown to a deserving guy.
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
I honestly will cry if gagne goes. I remember meeting him when he was a kid here, and could barely speak english. He was so shy and uncomfortable around fans b/c he didn’t know how to act, and the language barrier. It’s not just the player I’ll miss, I feel like I watched him grow up as a person, in to an adult ,here too. And it’s been nice to read the emotional side of the responses here, and how much love there is for the guy.
I’ve tried to confirm it but I haven’t had any success. Granted, my sources are nothing compared to that of LeBrun or someone..
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Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If it makes you feel any better, Eklund is reporting that we should be on the lookout for a “major” Flyers trade soon. It may even involve three teams!
I don’t know how much I trust Eklund. maybe Gagne to toronto, kabarle to Lak, picks/ prospects to Philly? just shooting the breeze here
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
The only thing Eklund could report that would make me feel any better would be a confirmation of entering a monastery with the accompanying lifetime vow of silence.
And I’d want that witnessed and confirmed unanimously by all the judges of the Supreme Court…past and present…living or dead.
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
I will forever associate Eklund with his rumor re: Ray Whitney to Montreal for both Kostitsyn brothers.
Bollocks.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
I just get pissed off that his BS earned him a Ferrari (or a Mercedes or a BMW or something, I saw it at night from the side… it’s a nice effing car).
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t/wasn’t he (Dwayne Klessel) a fairly successful musician, though? Regardless, he now says an “NHL source” informed him the Flyers asked Gagne to waive his NTC.
Please let him be making up shit again…please.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 2, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Eklund, I mean – not you, Ben. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 2, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Grey Eye Glances earned him enough to buy a nice effing car.
Trust me. Even if you are signed to a contract in the music industry, all of your money comes up front when it’s time to record. When you tour and sell albums, you have to recoup.
In real life: Do a job, get paid, repeat.
In the music biz: Get paid, do a job, hope that you earn enough to cover what you were originally paid so you can get paid again, hope that your record sold enough in the interim so that you don’t have to deal with record company bullshit, start saving up for potential legal action, repeat.
Eklund’s car likely came from Eklund being Eklund, and not from Eklund being Dwayne Klessel.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
Sources confirm…Simon Gagne asked to waive his No Trade clause today….no trade pending.
Dear me. From John Shannon, also of Rogers Sportsnet. Although why would they ask him to waive if there’s no trade pending…?
Oh, boy… :(
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 2, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Via Pierre LeBrun: Call me crazy, but I still think the Flyers will end up circling back at some point after divulging themselves of salary (see: Simon Gagne) and asking Turco and/or Evgeni Nabokov what it would take to get a deal done. But that’s a conversation for another day.
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 4:40 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, and I figure the Flyers will end up with Turco should they make a move like that and go for a UFA goalie. I read that Turco was indeed interested in signing with Philadelphia (read: willing to swallow his pride and take a discount), and even if the Flyers move someone like Gagne’s salary, I’m not sure Homer’s willing to blow most of that space on Nabokov.
how much would Nabby cost now that the market has had it’s say? I am pretty sure I’d rather have Nabby than Turco but Nabby will come at a higher cost and has more options (KHL). I am sure that Homer will try for both and maybe even play them off each other and we end up with Turco and more space. Silly question though. Are the lowball offers that Homer offered before still on the table? Do we know what homer was offering Nabby? We have an idea of what he was willing to give Turco
by historywillbemade on Jul 2, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
We don’t know what Homer was offering Nabokov, but he was offering Turco about $6 million over three years. I’m sure if Homer moved salary, he’d speak to both again, but as you say Nabokov has other options (so he probably has an idea of what the minimum he’d take to stay in the NHL is) and Turco really doesn’t.
I think that if Nabokov does sincerely want to play in the NHL (and not the KHL ) and win a Cup and that it’s not about the $ as I’ve seen him quoted as saying, he should go for a 1 year deal for 3 million and call the Flyers. Then he should play his butt off and try UFA again next year.
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
Even here LeBrun starts with “Call me crazy” indicating it’s just his own thought with nothing to back it up and says “(see Simon Gagne)” again with no reference to anything. The “But that’s a conversation for another day.” means there’s been nothing to make having the conversation today worthwhile. When was this posted? If it was yesterday, today is another day, and…
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
Looks like Gagne is as good as gone . . .
Gagne has agreed to waive his no trade clause. Again no trade is imminent this weekend. I’d expect monday or tuesday at the earliest.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
If this amounts to less than Brind’Amour for Primeau, I’ll be furious.
(I am anyway, and I was back then, but…goddamit, this just sucks ass.)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 2, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I hated to see LeClair go too
Yeah, that was weird.
So, where would he agree to go? The Avalanche, because they used to be the Nordiques? The Maple Leafs, because they’re the only Eastern Canadian hockey team that isn’t Montreal? The Filadelphia Phlyers, because I just reversed the beginning of the words of our own team’s name? (Ok, skip the last one…)
Is it legal to get him back at the trade deadline? Is that allowed in the CBA?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 2, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It is legal to get him back at the deadline or next year in free agency if he doesn’t sign a contract
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Well, I can hang on to something – thank you for looking that up (or for knowing it if you knew it off the top of your head).
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 2, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would you waive an NTC before you knew what the prospective trade on the table was for? What would the point of even having an NTC be then? That’s absolutely ridiculous.
The only way this makes sense is if this is seen from Gagne’s point of view as a win for him, being someone who is as close to a career Flyer as we have.
I predict that Gags is going to have a real bounce back season this year, assuming his foot issues are all resolved. He was starting to show flashes of his old speed and quickness last year and at 29 is somebody that a lot of NHL teams would want on their roster.
I realize that the Flyers are in big cap trouble, but I just don’t see the logic of this, unless its a large multi-part trade.
Maybe we’re going with 3 lines, and Mike Richards is moving to wing?
Carter and Gagne
Perhaps this is unfair, but I made up my mind about Carter during the interviews after Game 6. I had been a Carter fan and had criticized Richards, regularly during the regular season for what I considered a lack of leadership. But in the locker room Richards was consistently fighting back tears while Carter looked and sounded like a guy who was pretty happy, all things considered.
Just a snapshot, and not everybody displays their emotions in the same way, but it felt like a true read. So if the Flyers truly do need to trade a center to upgrade elsewhere then send Carter someplace now when they can get top value.
As for Gagne, we’d like all our faves to end up here like Schmidt and Clarke but it doesn’t work that way, certainly not in a cap world. So how we feel about the trade will in the end depend on what Holmgren can get in return.
by flyersfaninchicago on Jul 2, 2010 7:45 PM EDT reply actions
No, or that would mean not "liking" most players
but there’s a considerable gap between crying on one hand and looking and sounding like it was a game in November on the other. That was the difference between the two responses. Everyone else on the team had a very disappointed air about them. Carter’s demeanor struck me as something in contrast. I choose to give that some meaning, acknowledging that it is arbitrary. It’s also contradicted by his effort to come back with the injuries so what do i know.
I like what he offers on the ice. That kind of pure goal scoring is rare and they’ll miss it. But you can’t stockpile talent in one position in a sport with a cap because you suffer elsewhere. If they can get a decent young goalkeeper for Gagne and a mid-level player then I’m happier to keep Carter because he’s young and there’s upside. But if you look at the players who they have that make other GMs salivate and to me he’s clearly the most expendable.
by flyersfaninchicago on Jul 4, 2010 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Everyone, please go here.
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2010/7/2/1550221/image-fanshot
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 2, 2010 7:47 PM EDT reply actions
Didn’t realize Flyers fans were this in love with Gagne — good read Travis. He’s a very solid guy and it’s nice to see the support for him.
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Thanks James. I think it’s safe to say most of us are heartbroken at this news.
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by Travis Hughes on Jul 2, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I am definitely heartbroken if he does get traded. I don’t care who we get, Gagne is my favorite Flyer and it will suck to see him leave. I hope he can someday come back for us, or at least get to hoist a cup before he retires. No matter what, Gagne will always be a Flyer to me, and I’m sure to everybody else on this site.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 2, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Just saw on CSN Sportsnite that apparently the Flyers are interested in Turco.
Essentially, we’re going to get rid of Gagne so we can overpay for Marty Turco?!
Ouch
After overpaying for a few others and signing Shelly. Waste.
by JerseyDriver on Jul 2, 2010 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Turco, and Nabby are the obvious UFA goalies the Flyers are on record for stating they are interested in.
But Gagne has to be traded to a team.
Those players are not on a team so we will have to get something else in return
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 2, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
True, although it’s not clear we’ll get something of value. Especially if the main purpose is cap room.
Prospects, 1st rounder pic and a later round, ect.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 2, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think its that easy
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 2, 2010 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Gagnes fate is most likely tied tied to one of the teams who do not land Kovalchuk.
Right now the Kings, Devils and now the Islanders are all in the mix for him.
Whoever is left will probably set their sites on Gagne.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
Well the Islanders have the $$$$$ to land Kovalchuk.
Their offer is unexpected and seriously throw a wrench into the Kings bid
It looks like LA is going to need a winger
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 2, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Toronto fans wast Kovalchuk, but I dont see that as very realistic
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 2, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Although, wouldn’t it be funny to see Toronto peg their entire franchise to Kovalchuk? Very Burkeian.
well Toronto can stop wishing they are in the game
DarrenDreger
One source suggests the Isles offer to be $10 mil x 10 yrs. Yikes!
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 2, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Possible places Gagne could go
Everything points to the Kings as the most logical new home,….if he in fact is traded.
KingsNeed another ingredient to become a Western Powerhouse Contender
But if that dosent happen, where else?
NJ: Lou is ok with getting veterans, If you cant beat him…acquire him, and needs wingers. Personally I would hate to see him as a Devil
Islanders:They have the space, and need to spend to actually spent to reach the League minimum. I one season solution (Might let Gagne reinvent himself for a new career once he goes UFA)
ColoradoThe team needs something strong to assure last season wasn’t a fluke.
Phoenix Well we seem to make a trade al least once a year with them and its been 16 months since the last one
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
Things are starting to move again gearing up for mondays madness
Real_ESPNLeBrun
To follow up on @helenenothelen’s scoop, source from Kovalchuk’s camp confirms to ESPN.com that Kings are out.
July 4th 7:10 pm
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
Gagne requires a SERIOUS return
See my angry post above.
I want Bernier or Simmonds, and I want draft choices.
Turgid = Leighton in my view. (Remember, we are talking 2011 Turco, not 2001 Turco; if you are not convinced then compare 2009-10 Turco stats to Leighton Philly stats).
(Mason or Ellis would have been better but that is water over the bridge). Signing Turco now is just weird. I’d hate to lose Gagne over it, and I’d still be upset, but at least I’d understand the logic of Nabokov.
Let Bernier, Backlund and Bobrovsky (huh, wouldn’t you have to keep Boosh to be alliterative?) fight it out.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
Yeah, I just don’t see us getting a goalie AND replacing the scoring we’d lose if Gagne’s gone. While I’ll believe that G would stay on the PK if Gagne’s not here, I still think we’re going to have a hard time replacing his skill set with the small amount of cap room we’d get.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I did not mean Bernier “and” Simmonds. That won’t happen. Dean Lombardi and the Philly West crew in LA are smart….now even including Stevens in the brain trust…that’s why I think Simon is willing to waive the NTC, it will be as much like home as anywhere else (and not as stressful as Montreal).
I also get why Philly West want Gagne….major (and cheaper) Kovie consolation prize.
Giant holes open up. Weird lines, people out of position. Thanks Homer.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
Oh I knew you didn’t mean we’d get both. I was expanding it to say we wouldn’t fill both needs from anywhere with just the small amount of space he opens.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Right. See “giant holes” above .
I’ve been ranting for weeks that the lines are messed up, best option is to trade Carter. I understand why we’d keep Carter. Instead, we trade Gagne and make things potentially worse.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
In all honesty, I think Homer will be going for a 1st round pick and a prospect
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Which he’ll promptly trade before we even get to the next draft.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't hold your breath...
For a serious return. You’re asking a team to a take a player with a notable recent injury history, who carries a BIG cap number, and who has just one year left on his deal.
I just don’t know if I see a team giving up a ton for that, even if they’re getting a really good player like Gagne. The Flyers might have to sweeten the deal to get a big return.
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I agree . . .
Remember what we traded for Pronger? Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa and a 1 Rd Draft pick.
That is the same kind of return I want for Gagne. So, if anything it should be Bernier, Simmonds and a 1st Rd Draft pick.
Okay, Gagne is not Pronger, so maybe that is a bit unrealistic . . . Maybe a 2nd Rd Draft pick?
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 3, 2010 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions
there's no way
Gags will get as much as Pronger. Just no way.
1) Top D is more valuable than top 6 O
2) Prongs is one of the best in the NHL, Gagne is not
3) Flyers have less leverage than ANA did.
Now you are getting rid of not one but two of my favorites
If Gagne is gone, and “Turboko” is here, that means Boosh is gone too.
2 guys who just wanted to play in Philly. One who got an NTC to ensure it.
Sorry, but it wasn’t that long ago that in multiple sports no one wanted to play in Philly.
Now I’m starting to feel like Katchis.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
This is one bad thing about living so close…. I wouldn’t do it because I’m not really the type, but knowing that Gagne lives just a few miles away it’s so tempting to have that idea in the back of my head to just go put a sign out on the road there where he’d definitely see it or something else harmless like that. Like I said, I wouldn’t actually do it, but knowing he’s right there makes me want to do something to get our message to him… “Please don’t leave!!”, ya know? But I’m sure the anxiety is making me thoroughly neurotic about everything at this point.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I did mean it in a harmless way, not a creepy stalker way. Just use a handy roadside spot that he can’t miss, put up a good sign conveying that the fans want him to stay, and cross our fingers and hope he gets the message. But I’m 100% sure that I’ve crossed over into being truly neurotic, I know I wouldn’t actually do it. There’s just that nagging little voice that wants to, but I’ll blame the voice on the stress Homer is causing me.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I can be a little voice too.
do it Jen, dooooo iiittttt
If you just say that we love him, then it’s not as bad as trying to manipulate him through road signs.
All the armchair GMing the BSH community did, we never came up with this scenario. Perhaps we’re just not evil enough
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
No, this voice is definitely drug induced, Homer caused me to dip into my emergency anxiety medication that I’m supposed to use to slow my heart rate, I don’t even have it for anxiety. He just has me worrying that much today. I can’t wait til this is over.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2010 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
And you’re a bad influence, by the way!
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2010 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Heh sorry. I didn’t realise you were on actual medication. I had a breakdown at work this morning, but I had to say my grandmother died rather than letting everyone know I was crying about a hockey player.
The stupidity and the insensitivity of it all pisses me off that I fluctuate between sadness and anger every minute
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
If I knew where Simon lived I would be there (or somewhere near) with dozens of signs begging him no to go. True story.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
A tough pill to swallow but we have to.
I agree that moving Gagne is heavy on the heart but I’m starting to come around. I really love having him on the team-total clutch player. Unlike Carter who may get his chances but as we saw in the playoffs was more of a floater,shooting wristers from 15 feet out. Hopefully he will rebound.
-Factor in age and contract length. Now is the time. We have a few fellers on LW that are capable.
-We need to few cap space
-We need a goalie
-Although Gagne has a history of injuries-which will probably deter teams from taking him.
-he is willing to go. I just hope we don’t send him to Edmonton or something..
For me it’s similar to losing Recchi , Leclair and Brindamour..Love those guys…..But that’s the business I guess.
I’m even coming around on Shelly. Not his salary but him being in Philly. I was getting tired of Richards dropping the gloves or having to be so physical when he didn’t have to. I mean that’s his game but you want him to be physical with the right people not any old piece of turd player who is trying to get him off his game.
Last season we were all screaming to the heavens that Homer fu-ked up this team. Then they went to the finals. Let’s see what happens before calling for his head.
I don’t know, I always liked Richie dropping the gloves. Just showed that he was that kind of leader who would always stick up for his teammates.
Let’s think of what we can get for Gagne’s cap space. I am thinking of likely scenarios here.
1. Bernier, pick, and sign Nabby. Powe, and Carbomb. Then we have a goalie of the future and present. boosh and cote waived. This scenario is a bit overkill on goalie position but maybe would solve the problem.
2. winger (simmonds?), pick, and sign Nabby, Powe, and Carbomb. boosh and cote waived. best case scenario here as we replace gagne and get the goalie we are looking for.
3. Bernier, pick, and sign a winger. Let Bernier and Leights battle for starter
s spot. replace gagne via free agency.
I am leaving out signing Turco because I’d rather have Nabby and if it’s Turco we sign I’d be pissed unless we also get a wing as well. just about every scenario I see happening is getting a player, pick, and getting a goalie as well as resigning Powe and Carbomb.
by historywillbemade on Jul 3, 2010 7:48 AM EDT reply actions
[feels heart drop like rock]
There’s nothing else to say…
Lightning strikes once, Hextall strikes twice!
by hintzy64 on Jul 3, 2010 9:11 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
If this team trades Gagne…to clear up cap space to sign Turco, Carbomb and Powe I might flip out. This team lacks wingers and so they want to trade their best winger to resign 2 fourth liners and an over the hill goalie who hasn’t been good in 3 years?
Really?
Because that makes sense.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
by EREX21 on Jul 3, 2010 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
THANK YOU. Thank you for stating that. That single point has been bothering me since these rumors started.
A team struggling to find wingers is going to keep 5 natural centers and trade it’s best LW?
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
I aim to please.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
trading gagne
it will not just be to clear cap space to sign the guys we already have.
it will be to get a goalie, and get a solid player from the kings, like Simmonds, who is young, good, a winger, and very cheap, he’s only due 800,000 or something next season.
If you can trade Gagne for a younger winger, thats way cheaper and you can get a starting goale.
you have to do it.
we shouldnt need to do it if Homer hadnt given Leighton 1.55 mil a year, but given the current situation.
if i have to choose btwn Gagne and Leighton starting or Simmonds and Nabokov/Turco starting. Im going with the latter.
Also Gagne will be back as a Flyer. Despite his injury history, i still believe he will play another 3-5 years. At some point he wil return with the FLyers for at least another season, playing 3rd line LW or something.
It sucks to have to move him, but i truly believe we havent seen the last of Simon Gagne as a Flyer.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 3, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed. I am really hoping for Simmonds in return and that we get Nabby. That basically amounts to get a younger, cheaper wing that might fit into future plans, and signing a goalie to put us over the top. I’m not sure about getting Turco though. I am sure if we get Turco, he’ll grow on me but I’d rather have Nabby b/c he hasn’t dropped off as much with age. Turco would come cheaper, wants to come to Philly, and doesn’t have the other options (KHL for Nabby); therefore it’s more likely we sign Turco but I hope we go for Nabby first and hope we can get him for cheap
by historywillbemade on Jul 3, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree that Gagne will ever come back here if he leaves.
Secondly, the Kings are not going to take on a guy with Gagne’s cap hit and injury history and give up a young stud like Simmonds.
If Homer had not signed Leighton or Shelley then they would have the money to go after Turco and resign Powe and Carbomb.
If the Flyers get anyone back from the Kings it will be 1, maybe 2 players at most.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I agree, I think it’s possible that waiving his trade clause because he feels like they don’t want him anymore.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, it makes perfect sense. When you’ve signed Jody “Marksman” Shelley to a three-year deal at $1 million plus per year, it makes more than perfect sense. Sigh…
Recommended for the oh-so-perfect logic present here and clearly lacking in our front office (the most schizophrenic front office in the NHL, perhaps?)
look at it this way. Flyers have the potential to get 3-5 players (including an upgrade over Leights) for same cost of Gagne
by historywillbemade on Jul 3, 2010 10:50 AM EDT reply actions
those players being someone from LA (hopefully Bernier or Simmonds), a goalie (nabby/turco), powe and carcillo
by historywillbemade on Jul 3, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I honestly don’t think you we’re going to be able to get a whole lot into the small cap window he provides, which scares me that this might not yield a great return.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 3, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Todd’s right that Homer’s going after a first round pick and a prospect. Either that or Handzus, because apparently your team sucks unless you have more than five centers on your roster.
I agree….pick and a prospect, but if the Kings are serious about going after Kovy…how does adding Gagne’s cap hit help that? I would think the Flyers would have to take some salary back.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I think if the Kings get Kovalchuk, this deal doesn’t go through. They already have Ryan Smyth at left wing and appear set on the right, so Kovalchuk would be that second left winger for them. Plus, unless Kovalchuk takes significantly less money than he’s asking for now, the cap probably wouldn’t be favorable for having both him and Gagne.
Who needs goalies or wingers? It’s all about centers and defensemen.
by memphisbrando on Jul 3, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Crosby-Richards-H. Sedin
Backstrom-Carter-Malkin
Zetterberg-Giroux-E. Staal
J. Staal-Datsyuk-Franzen
(Lecavalier)
Pronger-Lidstrom
Timonen-Gonchar
Chara-Weber
(Souray)
Betts
(Handzus)
Get on it, Homer!
I like it! :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Still in total shock. I met Bouch and Gags at a local sports store 10 years ago. Gags was one of the nicest athletes I’ve ever met, and well, it’ll just be a shame.
But…he’s aging, and we need the cap space. I will only support this if the young player (hopefully) we get back is worth it. I don’t think that JQ or JB would come here, particularly if it’s true that Goalie Bob and Eriksson are slated for the big club in a couple of years. Still, it’s a tough pill to swallow.
@philatticus on Twitter
I met Gagne two years ago at a meet the players event. Stood in line for his autograph for my (then) unborn son’s Flyers jersey. So here I am with this tiny jersey (for the record I’ve never been called a little guy). He’s so into a routine signing stuff he doesn’t notice until I thank him for making it fun to be a Flyers fan. He looked up then and smiled said “Thank you”. The he noticed the jersey was so tiny and started laughing. Very nice guy and very personable despite what he was put through that night.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Yeah, that’s absolutely indicative of his character. When I met him, it was just after that great run of ‘99, and they were so down to earth. Being a huge fan of GTs, I was more excited about Bouch, but Gags left a lasting impression. I have that signed card next to all of my memorabilia, and it’s one of my best memories from childhood.
@philatticus on Twitter
Maybe Bobby Ryan?
Seems pretty clear that he doesnt want to go back to the Ducks, so maybe they try to cut their losses and trade for Gange and some draft picks.
You’re banking on a hometown discount then, because Murray has offered Ryan $5 million a year (and was declined on that offer). But in fairness, that might not be a terrible thing to bank on…
I remember reading somewhere (I think it was Puck Daddy) that Ryan said he expected to make less than Getzalf and Perrys $5.35 million a year, but then turned down 5 year $25million offer. I think he just doesnt really want to play there.
by philiafan14364 on Jul 3, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the Bobby Ryan option is something he is aware of. Just speculating here, but lots of reports say Clarkie and Bobby Ryan were family friends, and that if the lottery hadn’t failed us in 2005 then there was a strong possibility of Clarkie doing his best to secure Bobby as a Flyer. I reckon Clarke or someone else in the Flyers brass would’ve made Homer aware of the possibility even if Homer hasn’t thought about it (which would be very worrying).
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
euroflyers: Ilya Kovalchuk has offers from the Kings, Flyers, Avalanche and SKA of the KHL. All offers from the NHL are similar according to his agent.
No. That is definitely not what we need. If we dump Gagne just to pick up Kovalchuk and leave Leighton in net, I’m going to be one angry Flyers fan.
It can’t. Unless Homer has somehow worked out a massive discount (and I have no idea how he would considering Kovy has no previous ties to the Flyers or the city of Philadelphia in general), Homer would have to be absolutely barking mad to take on Kovalchuk’s demands.
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
But who is going to cover for Kovalchuk’s inability to defend, especially if we give up Gagne and Carter?
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
But who is going to cover for Kovalchuk’s inability to defend,
Leighton…duh!
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Let’s back pedal here for a second. It’s not that the Flyers are interested…….we actually made him an offer, per this report. We made Kovalchuk an offer.
What the hell was that offer? And if it is anything similar to the offer the Kings were reportedly giving him (for a great recap of the Kings and Kovy saga, Jewels From The Crown has done an awesome job analyzing this whole drama for the past week, Homer has lost his mind. Literally. It’s somewhere in Ocean City with Sam Carchidi.
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
why would Flyers go after kovy? that makes no sense unless they are just merely trying to raise Kovy’s price (not sign him) and force the trade with the kings as the gagne deal would only occur if kovy doesn’t go to the kings. homer is gambling. I have no idea what he is doing
by historywillbemade on Jul 3, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Because they need a winger and Kovy is that.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
Kovalchuk-Richards-Carter
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Giroux-Backlund?
Shelley-Betts-Laperriere
All the way to the Cup.
Flyers would need to dump more than just Gagne if they want to sign Kovalchuk.
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
I wish someone would rip the implant out of Homer’s head that is making him do all of these crazy things.
by memphisbrando on Jul 3, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL.
No one else has noticed Backlund on the wing on Ben’s lines. Nice, Ben.
And that makes as much sense as signing Kovie.
Remember, WE shut him down in the playoffs.
It can’t probably happen. But we’ll all be REALLY angry if Gagne is gone and Kovie is signed.
Two of the best nights of my life.,,,October 21, 1980 and October 29, 2008.
One of the weirdest...October 1, 1970. I kept part of one of the seats.
I was in college in Boston in 1974 and when Clarke scored the OT goal in game 2 I knew that the Flyers would win the Cup since they would never lose at home.
He is going crazy if he even thinks we can get Kovalchuk. Maybe he is making a deal that’s entirely front loaded so much that the cap hit will be less than Gagne’s
I am not good with making contracts, but if he wants to do the 10M for the first 10 years like the Islanders are offering, we would need to do something crazy like making it that high and drop it down and make it like 60 years for 1M per year to drop the cap hit (a.k.a. not happening!)
Yeah he is insane if he thinks we can get him. Plus I’d rather have Gagne than Kovalchuk.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
The news is slowing up during the Holaday weekend.
Its a smart move by Kolvachuks agent to release the fact that yes we called, but I would not put Any stock into thinking we will get him
I imagine the transcript of the phone call went like this…..
Clark: Just wanted to let you know we are interested in Kovaclhuk….
Agent: Well thats nice we want 100 million dollars for 10 years
Clark: I will get back to you……
Dial tone
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
I figure the conversation is more like this:
Agent: Hello?
Homer: Hello, this is Paul Holmgren. I am interested in your client, Ilya Kovalchuk.
Agent: Bidding is starting at five years, $45 million.
Homer: I’ll give you ten years, $100 million AND a no-movement clause!
Agent: Where do you expect to get that cap room from?
Homer: We’re working on things.
Agent: Okay. Well, that’s a very interesting offer. Here’s what Ilya is think—
(screaming in background from what sounds like Ed Snider “IS THAT MAN A RUSSIAN? WHY ARE YOU OFFERING HIM A CONTRACT?”)
Homer: …Can you excuse me a second?
Agent: Uhh, sure.
(despite covering the phone, you can hear Homer — albeit muffled — saying “Chief, restrain him, please.”)
Homer: Sorry about that.
Agent: Yeah, like I was saying, we have other offers as well. But we’ll get back to you.
Homer: I’ll give you TWO no-movement clauses!
/Click, and then a dial tone/
and the Oscar for best screenplay goes to......
Ben Fedman in What the Fu@k was Homer Thinking
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
NHL.com says....
While no trade is said to be imminent, the Inquirer reports the Flyers and Los Angeles Kings have been talking about a trade. The Inquirer says the Flyers are interested in goalies Jonathan Bernier and Jonathan Quick, but the Kings are reluctant to part with one of the young netminders. Adding Gagne to the equation is said to be a sweetener from the Flyers.
a “sweetner” and “adding to the equation” suggests we are trading more than gagne and probably something significant. Gagne for Bernier start up, I say. The fact that the Kings want Gagne suggests that they won’t get Kovy to me
by historywillbemade on Jul 3, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
This is really scary. The more rumors are circulated, the more likely it seems that the team’s core is about to get reworked. I just don’t know about this.
by memphisbrando on Jul 3, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Adding Gagne to the equation is said to be a sweetener from the Flyers.
I do not find this in any article in the Inquirer
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
It's on NHL.com
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=533744
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
The Inquirer report mentioned, I guess, is from one of the writers there that may not have been published in the paper.
That’s the only way I can see their writing that.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Now I must Thank you :)
I have not read anything written by a reporter saying Carter would “be a sweetener from the Flyers”
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
I'll just throw this out there...
What if no trades for Gagne come to fruition? What most likely happens then?
(Secondary question: with Gagne’s contract and our new contracts, how far over the cap are we?)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 12:59 PM EDT reply actions
simple
Fans will still love Gagne
The players will still love Gagne
Gagne will still play 100% flyers Hockey
We will still be without a True #1 goalie
We will still be right at the cap limit
and we will still have major problems signing all the UFA players next off season
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
I see. Thank you! :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly right.
I’m worried about next offseason. I was optimistic at the beginning that Homer would leave us with 2-3M of space to carry through the season and take to next offseason (unless he did a Randy Jones). What he did now was spend up to the cap, and now wants to get rid of Gagne to fix it and unless he gets an amazing deal, it won’t end well.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
That type of thinking is great for fantasy hockey, but a cup can go a long way in lessening those types of concerns. Just ask the Chicago fans.
Hmm well if we get Simmonds or Bernier in return (and no picks or younger prospects together with them), then I think both of them are going RFA at the end of next season. Giroux is also going RFA at the same time, not to mention Leino going UFA. So it would be setting us up for headache and possible heartbreak.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
If there’s no trade, there’s no trade. No hard feelings, probably. Simon’s been in the organization long enough to understand how things work.
And as of right now, CapGeek says the Flyers are $577,738 under the cap (that includes both Bartulis and Cote salaries) with Powe and Carcillo needing to be re-signed.
And thank you as well! :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, hypothetically speaking...
And as of right now, CapGeek says the Flyers are $577,738 under the cap (that includes both Bartulis and Cote salaries) with Powe and Carcillo needing to be re-signed
With Cote’s salary added to the $577,738, how close would we be to signing either Powe or Carcillo?
(I apologize in advance if this questioning seems silly – humor me. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm...
Well, I know we’re going to keep our Latvian Wolf of the Sea, so we would have just short of the amount to sign one of them. Is that right?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
With Bartulis but without Cote you have $1,127,738 in cap space. That’s almost certainly not enough to sign Carcillo, but almost certainly enough to sign Powe.
That’s what I thought.
Thanks again! :)
(I have finally gotten around to using CapGeek, so I’ll stop bugging you now. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Can they just release them? If they can then I have no understanding as to why they didn’t.
That figure above is enough to resign one of Powe and Carcillo…I thought Carcillo became useless with a guy like Shelley.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
He must have serious dirt on Homer and Snyder!
He becomes a UFA next year. Homer will sign him to a 4 year deal and add a NTC
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
I don’t understand how so many people are complaining about what we have or what we are trying to get….I’m thinking some people just won’t be happy till the season starts and we start winning.
Remember when we wanted to send Hartnell to the slaughter house? What happened to that lynch mob? I agree it’s fun to write and read about the implications of transactions but every time a rumor starts everyone claiming the sky is falling.
Let’s see how it all plays out.
That lynch mob changed its name to the “Jeff Carter Should Go Association” following the Stanley Cup Final, and after it became apparent Hartnell (and Briere) had some not-so-fun personal issues he was dealing with.
Not that I want to trade Gagne, but shouldn’t we all wait and see what the trade is before we rip Homer? His track record for trading is pretty good, and the bottom line is that while Gags going will undoubtedly suck from a fans perspective it could very well make this a better hockey team on the ice. Let’s not forget the long stretches where Gagne was hurt and/or ineffective last year. He fought through it, but his production is not irreplaceable.
Formerly... "You don't have to be sweet, to be good"
When people start to realize that Gags’ utility on the ice is not only about him scoring goals?
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
by Katchis on Jul 3, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec’d
+1
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Gagne can’t be useful when he is hurt, something that seems to happen quite frequently.
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
i understand people on here love Gags, and he used to be my favorite Flyers but i dont have any problem at all with him leaving. he is simply not worth 5+ mill at this point in his career. He’s still not very old, but he’s been in the league a long time and the mileage has added up. The thing that annoys me the most about him anymore is he’s soft as bread. He completely shies away from any kind of contact, and he failed to make plays MANY times in the finals bc he was scared to take a hit. He hasnt been nearly as effective ever since his concussion. I dont see it changing. Thanks for all you’ve done but 5 mill for soft play is too much…as far as everyone on here talking about how much you love him and how he’s the reason why your a Flyers fan…nobody cares, and the organization certainly doesnt either. Its about the team on the ice. no more no less. So if it makes sense for the team its gotta happen
Soft play? Soft as bread? Scared to take a hit? Hahaha. That’s why he was among the top checkers after one or two SCF games, right? (I’m sure about one, when he delivered 5 hits). I’ll shoot you with a puck straigh into your foot (twice), breaking you a toe in a process, I will implant two screws into your foot and few days later I will put a stiff skate on this particular foot and I will make you play an NHL playoff hockey game. And after you play your heart and soul out in extremely demanding hockey, I will say … “dude, you’re soft. be gone.”
Just to be clear, I’m not arguing whether is he worth 5 mil or not. I’m just sick of people saying he’s soft. I’m allergic to that word already.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
by Katchis on Jul 3, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Gagne is most certainly not worth 5 mil…but he is worth close to that, especially considering he plays lock down defense.
Gagne is many things, I guess you could call him soft, he is injury prone after all so I guess soft is fair. But when he does play, he does not play soft at all. In fact, he guts it out like few others do in this game. Which is one of the reasons people love him.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
I kinda have to agree. He’s also known for his two way play and +/-. You just don’t accomplish that being soft. His efforts in the playoffs this year were nothing short of heroic. Any issues he had were related to his foot. There’s only so much you can do in Hockey when your feet aren’t right. Gags is known for his speed, and it was clear he had lost a step or 2 in the SCF.
However, looking back at the last 3rd of the season before his break, Gags was playing some of the best hockey he’d played in years.
Rumors out there the Flyers want cap space NOT for a goalie but … B. Ryan? He has not re-signed in ANA; they dont need him
So right now we have Gagne going to Los Angeles for a goalie, Gagne going to Los Angeles for something other than a goalie so they can sign Turco, Gagne going somewhere to make room for Kovalchuk, and now Gagne going somewhere (Anaheim?) to make room for Bobby Ryan.
And now an additional report of Philadelphia being interested in Kovalchuk, translated from Russian.
Got it up there 2 seconds before me!
So wait, we are trading Gagne as a sweetner to get 1 of LA’s 2 young goalies, but we are making offers to Kovalchuk, all the while we want the cap space for Bobby Ryan?
My head hurts.
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
That’s a strange article – the Russian one, I mean.
Looking past our alleged interest, could Colorado realistically sign him?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes they could.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
It’s strange that in our media, it’s all about LA, NJ, and NYI – in this Russian article, it’s all about LA, PHI, and COL.
That’s quite a discrepancy…
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Colorado has long been rumored to be going after Kovy, they tried very hard to get him during this past years deadline. They have the cap space and the need. And an exciting up and coming team. Much like LA.
Looking forward to the Kevin Kolb era.
5-8-10...the day the Purdue Boilermakers basketball team won the 2011 NCAA Championship!!
this kovalchuk thing doesnt seem realistic at all to me. even if we trade gagne do we have enough room for kovalchuk? personally, i dont think kovalchuk is worth it even if we do have the room. 6-7mill a year for someone who is compltely one dimensional is not worth it. plus with JVR, Giroux, and Leino all needing extensions soon there is no way we could be in the Kovalchuk hunt
Slight tangent
Finally looking at CapGeek, I am noticing a few things about individuals who have been suggested for the team to move (for simplicity’s sake, I’m ignoring NTC’s/NMC’s (well, they are flexible anyway, aren’t they)):
1) Briere’s contract is absolutely unmovable, my goodness…
2) Carter and Hartnell are the only other options besides Gagne to move, realistically.
3) We are trying to maneuver to win the Cup in the next two seasons, or we may have a very long wait.
The first two points many people have been saying for weeks now – what do we think about the third?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 1:58 PM EDT reply actions
isnt it an incredible site!
1) yes but some days I dream b/c he looked so good during the playoffs…. but in the end I realize he is unmovable!
2)Yes
3)Not if we trade Gags for prospects and a Good young winger, Trade Carter at the Deadline for a stellar goalie
Then we can sign everyone else. We are young and string with A Unstoppable D
Look at the Pens situation! Hahaha they are really in a must win NOW this season or next!
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
That’s true. :) Poor Pens…
Yes – #3 might turn out to be the case. (But I still want Gagne. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Speculation leads...?
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
If that sign means we can keep Gagne, I like it. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
You can’t read the hidden message? It’s like Magic Eye. ;)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a schooner!
"I did my walk of shame this morning and everyone was so much nicer," she said. "People were inviting me to parties at 9 a.m."
LOL! :)
Very good guess! You’ve done these before. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 5, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
GAGNE TRADE MUST EVENTUALLY LEAD TO A GOALIE AND A WINGER
otherwise Paul Holmgren fails with this whole thing (although he’s already failed with the Leighton signing)
first of all id rather move Carter than Gagne.
I dont see us getting Bobby Ryan for what he wants. And I dont want Bobby Ryan, if that means we cant still get a goalie.
DO NOT WANT KOVY AT ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. Especially since that means def no goalie. And Kovy is not worth any big contract in my opinion, not on a team like a Flyers which relies on balanced scoring, which i much prefer.
Ideally I’d do Carter and JVR for Dustin Brown and Simmonds.
What is Brown’s contract? Is the difference btwn Brown’s contract and Carter’s enough to sign Turco or Nabby for cheap?
But it looks like we’re moving Gagne. Even So I’d like a Gagne and JVR for Dustin Brown and SImmonds deal. Again though only if there’s enough money for a goalie. So again is there enough a difference btwn Brown and Gagne’s contract to get a goalie?
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 3, 2010 4:25 PM EDT reply actions
Call me irrational, but I’d flip if we trade JVR after his rookie year. There are so so so so many rookies who hit a wall in their rookie year or produced below expectations but became superstars later on.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Grading the 2010 Flyers: Simon Gagne
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
I wonder why this isn’t visible on the front page.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 3, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Jodi Simmons - we need to wait.
I know it’s a lot of money for the guy, at least it seems like it.
But remember the whole fanbase hated Carcillo before he got here. And now there are plenty of Carcillo jerseys out there (although I dont understand why we’d keep Carcillo if we have Shelley – we absolutely need Powe to play 3rd line wing – b/c either way a wing spot is open even before moving Gagne – and I think Powe and Giroux will be a good combo and JVR if he’s still here – thats a good 3rd line)
Im just saying if not for the Leighton signing compounding things we and we got say Dan Ellis for 1.55 mil instead of Leighton, and we didnt need to trade Gagne – than I think we all would not be hatin on the Jodi Shelley signing anywhere near as much.
There’s a reason why everyone but us thinks the Rangers made a mistake in not keeping him.
I say wait on the whole situation right now. We all agree the Leighton signing and Homer creating this situation was bad. However I think the fanbase might begin to change their opinion on Shelley the moment he beats the shit out of an opposing player who just cheapshotted one of our skill guys.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 3, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions
Dustin Brown's Contract
He signed a 6 year deal, in 2007 for 19 mil. not bad at all. that means Like 3.3 mil for the next 3 years.
Which means if we traded Gagne and JVR for Dustin Brown and Simmonds. That would get us two right wingers. Brown for the Carter-Richards-Brown line. And for the third line Powe-Giroux-Simmonds. Simmonds is more proven and ready to win now than JVR, but JVR ceiling is higher (maybe?) so there’s incentive for the Kings. And apparently Gagne is a good fit for them or so thats what Ive heard.
And the Flyers would have room to give Nabby or Turco a contract. Probably would have to wait Carcillo, but I think we should do that anyways.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 3, 2010 4:45 PM EDT reply actions
I think we can put the Kovalchuk to the Flyers nonsense to rest.
http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2010/07/islanders_make_power_play_for.html
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
THANK THE LORD
i dont care if he’s in our division still. Let him rot away with the Isles. They’ll be better but still wont be able to do anything with that ridiculous contract. 10 mil dedicated to one player? As if dedicating 10 mil to Hartnell and Briere wasnt bad enough for us.
He’ll draw in fans and thats about it. The Islanders will have one good line they’ll be able to build. That’s it.
As long as we dont waste any money on him.
Do the deal with the Kings I want, Homer, Gags and JVR for Brown and Simmonds; then go get Nabby and Turco. And we’ll be locked and loaded and ready to go. Sucks to have to lose Gags, but that that deal would be money for us.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 3, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Id like nothing better but
That news is older than the report about the Flyers looking into Kolvalchuk
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
so help me god if we move gagne for this asshole and dont get a goalie.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 3, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Dont worry
We cant afford 1.8 mill for Asham, there is no way we can afford 10 million for Kovalchuk
Even if we traded Gagne and got not 1$ back, we would still need to shed 5+ million more just to sign him, and then have to shed more to sign the other players needed to have a full roster
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
This article was published Saturday July 3 at 6:04 PM.
Garth Snow has confirmed the Kovalchuk offer (was there that confirmation before) and I read elsewhere (I forget where) that a deal is close to getting done.
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
Reply fail. This was supposed to be a rely to Prometheus at 7:42.
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
I can follow you no matter where you reply
The article is recent but the news appears to be recycled from what was conformed last night
Im paying way too much attention to Twitter and the internet when something less than 24 hours old is considered recycled, and should not take this so seriously…….. But I cant help it. Its the Flyers!
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
you and me both. i just keep waiting on something to happen, even though i know it wont til after the weekend
Gagne and JVR for Brown and Simmonds; then get Turco or Nabby.
fingers crossed (given that they are moving Gagne and we cant do anything about it)
then Carter for Bobby Ryan too?? please?
waive Carbomb, trade Boosh for anything, resign Powe
Brown-Richards-Ryan
Leino-Briere-Hartnell
Powe-Giroux-SImmonds
Lappy-Betts-Shelley
Pronger-Carle
Timmonen-Meszo
Coburn-O’donnell
G1 Nabby/Turco
G2 Leighton
G2
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 3, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
What I don’t understand is why Homer would still go and get a “better” goalie when he’s already signed LOLeighton
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
because he realized he completely overestimated the market for goalies, which the Lieghton signing is evidence of.
and now he’s backpedaling trying to fix his mistake. It’s not like he intended on moving Gagne, wasnt until after he realized his gaffe.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 3, 2010 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is moronic. With the defense as it is, he doesn’t need a top flight goalie anymore.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
disagree
still not comfortable wtih Leighton in net. I’ll just keep having that image of Kane’s goal in my mind in game 6. Much like I had the image of Biron not being able to hold onto the puck and giving it right to Crosby.
AFter iconic gaffe moments like that I dont see how you can bring back the same goalie. Which is why I was so stunned when we signed him. The players just wont be comfortable with him in net afer that. Its’ why Biron was let go and its why Leighton should have been let go.
It doesnt matter what you did before when you have gaffes that bad in the that big of a moment, the players wont forget and will never have the same confidence again in front of him.
I will be afraid everytime one puck escapes through our defense that Leighton will give up a softee – thats no way to go through the playoffs.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 3, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
And why is it that Kovy is going to join the worst team in the NHL for money, when he was already offered a monster contract by the Thrashers, and turned that down at considerable personal risk to go as a playoff rental to the devils?
I think he’s made it pretty clear that it’s not just about the money to the guy — he wants a shot at a cup while he’s still capable.
Finally we can really put the Kovalchuk to the Flyers nonsense to rest.
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/lost-in-translation-flyers-made-no-offer-to-kovalchuk.php
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
and much like Preston and Steve on 93.3 and 104.5 (basically the new Y100)… Simon Gagne will be back eventually.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 3, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a sad day for philly but rumors are they are trying to move him to open up space for Bobby Ryan which would be a big signing but if people think Carter is going anywhere they are crazy, a young sniper with 79 goals the past two seasons isn’t going anywhere, and I doubt the Kings trade both Kopitar and Brown like I read they aren’t going to get rid of their best two forwards and gut the team to get a 30 year old overpaid injury prone winger from philly but all this would probably hinge on a signing of Kovalchuk in LA.
I wish I knew were Bobby Ryan was from. If only there was an Olympic broadcast that could mention it seventy times a game….
That did get really annoying really quickly.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN’s Philadelphia Union blog
Congrats!
I’ve wanted to follow the Union much more than I actually have been doing. The Flyers making a deep playoff run and the Phillies having a good start of the season sort of put them on the backburner for me and I never was really able to get back into it.
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
Thanks! I’ve actually been contributing some over there for few weeks now but I didn’t want to change my signature (or lack of one) while the Flyers were still in the playoffs (I’m, uhh, a little superstitious) and just got around to actually doing it now. Personally, I’ve really enjoyed following the whole process of an expansion team and the construction of their stadium. It’s fun enough for me just to see them playing at this point, and they’re a young team with some promising developing players, so positive results in year one are really just gravy.
Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog
I just noticed your signature and your post on the front page of Brotherly Game. Though probably not as close as you, I was following the process of the construction of the team, but their start dates interfered with the end of the Flyers season and the start of the Phillies’ season (before they started slumping). It is neat to see the construction of a franchise like this. They certainly seem like a young team with a lot of potential and while I am watching the game tonight, I kind of wish I would have gotten to see more of it up to this point.
Chris Pronger stole my last signature.
It’s always fun to repeatedly mention to Ducks fans as part of speculation on hometown discounts.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 3, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
What would the people more knowledgeable than me (i.e. all of you) think of Gagne for Parse and one of the Kings’ young goalies? Too much, too little, too weird?
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I like the idea of Gagne for Parse, Teubert, and maybe one of the young goalies or a 1st/2nd round pick.
Honestly, I don’t think the Flyers really need to get a young goalie with how highly they think of Bobrovsky (sp) and Erikkson (sp). They just want a veteran for the 1-2 yrs it takes for those two to make it up to the NHL. I’d rather they trade Gagne for some ELCs and picks to refill the system (the Phantoms are BARE). Even though that isn’t so sexy, it makes short and long term sense, at least to me.
"Want a donut go to dunkin donuts, want a linebacker go to Penn State."
- Cris Carter, NFL Draft, 4/25/09
twitter: @princessblueezy
apparently the kings have given up on signing kovy, which makes it extremely likely that Gagne is headed to LA. Flyers’ hand in negotiation probably just improved since Kovy isn’t an option for LA, so do we get a greater return now. Hopefully, it all happens soon before the rumors get even crazier
by historywillbemade on Jul 5, 2010 8:16 AM EDT reply actions
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