Offseason Moves

by Phigment on Jul 10, 2010 3:42 PM EDT

Welcome to the offseason! What a crazy time since the finals have ended. The season and post season have been written about and then what seemed like the next day the team is being totally rebuilt. So here I will take a look at the moves that have been made so far and what I think should be done the rest of the summer.

• Trade of Ryan Parent – A+ for Holmgren for moving Parent. The guy’s growth was negative in Philly and with the fans and coaches seemingly losing patience Homer got the rights to Hamhuis.

• Trade Hamhuis rights to Pittsburgh – A++ for Holmgren. Hamhuis was not interested in playing in the east, he traded these rights to Pittsburgh and EVERYONE freaked out! Then July 1 came around and Hamhuis signed with Vancouver. Homer got a 3rd round pick from a competitor for basically nothing! Gotta love Homer fleecing the Pens for this pick!

• Resign Michael Leighton – great move. The guy did nothing except perform above the level that was expected of him. Due to his performance last year, he like Boucher has earned the right to start the year in the crease for Philly.

• Resign Bryadon Coburn – great move. He plays better, the more minutes that he plays. The staff must do a good job next season keeping his focus on the game as with the new group of 6, the minutes will be much more even across the defense.

• Trade for Andrej Meszaros - this is a good move. When Meszaros was on a quality team, he played very well and with Tampa – he looked lost. With the Flyers veteran defense he should do just fine. He is very physical and is a nice complement to the Flyers back end.

• Sign Sean O’Donnell – great move. He is not expensive, has tons of experience, and can play a physical role on the penalty kill.

• Sign Jody Shelley – there is only one reason for this. Riley Cote was awful on the ice and as a fighter. Shelley is more expensive than Cote, but is far better suited for this role than Cote who caught more punches with his face than he ever even threw.

• Sign Nikolai Zherdev – I am cool to this signing. I remember when he was drafted and everyone loved this guy. He is not expensive and it is only for 1 year. He was the #4 overall pick and has twice scored 25 goals on BAD teams. He is a skilled right handed right wing. Something that the Flyers are in short of so, I will take a wait and see approach.

So what else, oh yeah! The trade talk of Carter and Gagne. From the Flyers point of view, they should do everything in their ability to move Gagne over Carter. Carter is younger, a better scorer, bigger, and has not had the injury issues that Gagne has had. I want you all to know that Gagne is one of my favorite players, but this is strictly a business decision. It makes the most sense to move Gagne for the best of the team. There are some nice young goalies that if I were in Holmgren’s place I would target. These guys are Jhonas Enroth (Buffalo), Scott Clemensen (Florida), and Jonathan Bernier (Los Angeles). All 3 of these teams could use a guy like Gagne as a leader and scorer and they have established goalies in the NHL that are preventing these guys from getting a chance. I would avoid at all costs going after the Marty Turco et al that are begging to play behind the Flyers defense next year.

Good Night and Good Hockey!

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There are some nice young goalies that if I were in Holmgren’s place I would target. These guys are Jhonas Enroth (Buffalo), Scott Clemensen (Florida), and Jonathan Bernier (Los Angeles).

Is 32 the new 22? Either way, the argument for trading Carter is that there’s a logjam in the middle and relative weakness on the wing, regardless of his age or skill. Plus he’ll get a better return.

Contributor at The Brotherly Game, SBN's Philadelphia Union blog

by Ben Feldman on Jul 10, 2010 3:49 PM EDT reply actions

Agreed

Agreed 100%. Carter will give you a better return, and the logjam at centre will be filled.

by Flyersfan94 on Jul 10, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Timing is off

A Trading Parent for Pittsburgh 3rd with Nashville getting the player. Win Win Win!

C-The Resigning of Michael Leighton happened too early.
Had he waited we could have seen the market was a little lower than Homer anticipated.

C Andrej Meszaros happned too early. Was anyone else after that contract? No! We could have done that two weeks from tomorrow and still land him.
I think Homer expected all the Hamhuis buzz to inflate the price of all the UFA D within the 1st 5 minutes.
Again timing was off and the UFA D-men naming price was not that inflated.

B Jody Shelly caused the NYR to waste way too much to pay a goon out of sheer panic. We can keep him in the minors and eventually trade him for another teams 7th round on late October/early November
In the meantime he is a treat to Carcillo who want a much bigger contract.
I dont really like him but I dont hate the pickup either

A Nikolai Zherdev Great pickup, great contract and great risk/reward ratio
Bad timing due to homers inability to pick up or let go of players at the right times.

F Trading Gagne His stock was high comming off the Stanley Cup run, and if they were going to trade him, why not do it before the Draft? Why wait until you have unexpected and uncontrollable forces manipulating the market?
Kovalchuk had caused a complete gridlock in a lot of teams moves
Can Homer control this? NO but he could have avoided this if he acted sooner
Now we are over the cap.
Thank god so manny teams are interested in Gagne that we will still get to receive something good in return, but I still think Homer deserves shit for screwing this up so severly.
Gagne deserved better

A Carter is a better asset to keep and utilize on out team. Trading him now would just compound the theme of Bad Timing by Homer
If he dose not fit well with the team, Then he will be great trade bait for an incredible upcoming UFA goalie who would like to know he is going to a good team now that the goalie market has crashed

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 10, 2010 4:54 PM EDT reply actions

After seeing your comment on the link to my SBNation Philly article, I’m really glad to see this one. I don’t disagree too much, actually:

I’d give the Jody Shelley deal a D+ (I don’t think Glen Sather needs another team to make him do something stupid);
Signing Zherdev: B (The timing really kills it for me, otherwise it’d be an A)
Not trading Carter: C (If you want to keep him, fine. But he’s not untouchable and he’s your biggest trade asset while playing a position you have too many of.)

But trading him for Tomas Vokoun and a 1st at the deadline would be fantastic.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 10, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions

When has Vokoun ever been in a pressure situation. The guy has been around the NHL on losing teams forever. Stay away from him. I don’t like guys that are “used to losing”. In all this time in the league he is 3-8 with a 2.47 GAA in the Playoffs. Run away from him!!!

Phigment

by Phigment on Jul 11, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions

That's absurd

What do you expect the guy to do, jump out of the net and stickhandle the puck down the ice and score? He’s the goalie for a team that has had below average players in a non-hockey market for years now, and has kept that team from being a complete doormat.

Prior to that he played for the hockey juggernaut of Nashville, where his own defenseman did brilliant things like chop him in the side of the head with their sticks. Sorry you think that his playoff numbers weren’t great facing the Red Wings putting up 40+ shots against him. Needless to say, just about nobody agrees with you on this. Vokoun would be a dream come true, but he plays for a team that likes to stockpile draft picks, not take on salary, and considering our situation, it’s simply inconceivable how we would afford him.

by Gizmoitus on Jul 11, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

agreed 100% and rec'd

i just don’t understand how on earth people can possibly fathom using the logic that he plays for teams with bad skaters as an indictment of him. All he does is dominate, and somehow he’s pegged as a loser. Completely, utterly stupid and willfully ignorant.

by Alon on Jul 11, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed 100%. But the good news is that if you give Florida Carter and they choose not to re-sign him (Which, Dave Tallon probably would sign him) they would likely get a 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd round pick. They give up a guy they won’t re-sign anyway, get a guy they might in Carter, but if they don’t, they still net a 2nd and 3rd round pick for Vokoun.

Again, not saying it will happen, but trading Florida Carter gives them the option of taking picks or the player. Getting a 1st in return is unlikely, but Homer should get some compensation for the fact that Carter is an RFA and he’s giving up possible picks.

Oh, right. Homer refuses to trade Carter. Still, would love to have an inexpensive Vokoun on the Flyers. After next year, sign him for $4 mil and it’d be a good deal if not a steal.

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions

“There was a dream that was Rome. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish, it was so fragile.”

bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!

by Prometheus74 on Jul 11, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Vokoun’s Playoff Career: 3-8, .922 s%, 2.47 GAA

Michael Leighton’s Playoff Career: 8-3, .916 s%, 2.46 GAA

What’s the difference? Vokoun’s teams were terrible, yet he still stopped a higher percentage of shots.

So I guess we should have stayed away from Michael Leighton too, since all he did before coming here is lose. Playing behind the Flyers didn’t help him at all… oh wait. Just imagine what a superior goalie can do behind Pronger, Timonen, Carle, Coburn, Meszaros, and O’Donnell.

God, I hate when arguments divulge into Wins and Losses. It’s absurd in baseball – people are finally realizing this – so why is it still used in hockey?

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 11, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions

No you are going back to Vokuon jesus Geoff did Hockey Outsiders hack you account. Carter did perform really well for us in the Devils series and Boucher played just about has good as any goalie could have in that series.

I also don’t know how this team would have reacted at the deadline if a suppose cup contender trades their leading goal scorer. That doesn’t not exactly set up confidence they should have made the Meszaros trade at the deadline or got O’Donnel. I don’t think we could have fit them under the cap but getting a better D-Man then Kricheck would have been better. Carter was not the problem in the playoffs 5th pairing was.

by chrislanci on Jul 12, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Prometheus said:

Then he will be great trade bait for an incredible upcoming UFA goalie who would like to know he is going to a good team now that the goalie market has crashed

And that is Tomas Vokoun.

I also don’t know how this team would have reacted at the deadline if a suppose cup contender trades their leading goal scorer. That doesn’t not exactly set up confidence

Because doing nothing and sticking with Michael Leighton/Brian Boucher infused this team with confidence? So much so that on deadline day, both goalies and the team in general performed like crap?

Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.

by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 12, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Not trading Carter: C (If you want to keep him, fine. But he’s not untouchable and he’s your biggest trade asset while playing a position you have too many of.)

Hindsight, but you are underestimating how well our goalies did perform. Also, he doesnt lose value over a few months so you only really give up the pick at that point. Second, He’s not untouchable, but homer says he wont be traded, yet we have players who are untouchable (NTC’s) being asked to waive them. As has been said before, I am sure if homer got a good offer for Carter he would trade him. But I also think that the way this team’s management thinks, Carter is more valuable in terms of helping win games than any goalie and 1st round pick.

by bfrank27 on Jul 12, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions