Tuesday Morning Fly By: Hartnell v. Barkann
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 13, 2010 10:46 AM EDT
in Morning Fly By
169 comments
Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Sad news as Serena Williams is unable to play against Scott Hartnell. Instead, Hartnell will take on Michael Barkann [Flyer Files]
- Denis Bodrov has signed a one year contract in the KHL after finally coming over to the Phantoms at the end of last year: [euroflyers]
- Both Jeff Reese and Michael Leighton are excited to work on Leighton's game for a full (two) year(s). [CSNPhilly]
- The Flyers have allowed Patrick Thoresen to speak with other teams, Anaheim being interested: [EuroFlyers]
- A good story about Mike Testwuide: [Daily News]
- The prospect camp is all about learning: [Flyers]
- Which is especially true of Derian Hatcher's son Chase, who is only 16. You couldn't tell: [philabright]
- An early projection of what the Phantoms roster might look like next year: [PostStar]
- Wondering if Marc Savard will get the Dan Boyle treatment sounds awfully close to the way Simon Gagne is being treated: [Puck Daddy]
- San Jose forced Chicago to match their offer for Niklas Hjalmarsson: [Puck Daddy]
- Gary Bettman makes a lot more money than you think: [Puck Daddy]
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Bodrov
Is the KHL good or bad for him?
Talent-wise, it’s a step up from the AHL I’m sure, but the rinks and style of play aren’t going to prep him for North American hockey any time soon.
I haven’t been keeping tabs on him, but if memory serves he has slipped down the depth chart. So maybe the Flyers’ loss is only Spartak’s quasi-gain.
Do you see what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps?
It’s a problem only because he finally came over to NA and now decided to go back. At this point, he should be in the AHL if he wanted to be a Flyer. That’s the troubling part.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 13, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
The thought of us paying a guy 1.5MM a season to learn how to be good at his job, kind of makes me fearful.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 13, 2010 10:58 AM EDT reply actions
Hmmm, I thought that story was quite good.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
No, the story was great, but the underlying message has me worried.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 13, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
At least we’re not replacing one of our most defensively-sound forwards with someone who can best be described as “defensively challenged.”
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Jul 13, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Technically, weren’t we paying JVR to do that last season?
If we’re gonna pay Leighton 1.55 mil to learn how to be good, he better be doing some hardcore training. I’m talking Rocky IV – style.
and as it turned out, that wasn’t such a good idea either.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 13, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, you were replying to the JVR bit.
I thought you were saying that the training montage in Rocky IV wasn’t a good idea. That would’ve been blasphemy.
I hope Leighton actually turns into another “Rocky” type story. However, articles like this make me fearful about what aspects Reese thinks need work.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 13, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
New angle for me now after reading it...
I worry that he constantly has to be coached to stay on his game. Leights seemed to get progressively worse as the playoffs moved on. That’s not to say his numbers were always bad, but his game seemed to be different than what I got used to seeing as the playoffs moved on. Whether that has to do with the stage getting bigger and him not handling the pressure well, the competition getting tougher, him being fatigued, or him not being able to get in the practice time…I don’t know. But his game definitely changed as the playoffs moved forward, and given what Reese said about not getting in practice time as the playoffs moved on, and them having to work on that…it makes me worry about that potential issue.
I’d have to say that his play against Montreal was at least as good as it was against Boston, if not better. I see your point going into the Chicago series, but I thought he was better against Montreal than against Boston.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I talking specifically. In the regular season he did a better job of staying up longer. He also stayed deeper in his net, using his bigger size to allow him to not have to be as aggressive in challenging a shooter and having more time to react to the shot. As the playoffs went on, he started to go down sooner, and he started to become slightly more aggressive. The aggressiveness would not have been an issues, but he seemed to lose his angles on occasion. This is just something I took note of game to game.
OK, I understand what you’re saying now.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, a goalie can have a great game, but be technically inferior to previous performances. You can’t argue shutouts, but I was hoping to see him maintain his technique more consistently. That’s my biggest worry with Leights. But of course this is solely based on my opinion of what I saw, so it’s flawed to ways, 1. being that it’s my opinion, and 2. it’s my opinion of what I saw a couple months ago.
Bettman...
I heard that on the way in to work this morning on XM Home Ice, and was pretty upset. But seeing Campbell makes almost $1.4 million to almost get every single decision he faces in his job wrong, that almost gave me a stroke.
why though? To his credit, he does run a billion dollar industry….
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 13, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Bettman is the head of an organization with almost $3 billion in revenues. A $7+ million salary is actually underpaid if you start comparing it to CEO payments for companies of a similar size.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Jul 13, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah but what does he actually do? Sits there, smiles, and makes himself look like one of the biggest douchbag asses imaginable …. hell I’ll do that job for $6 million and I’ll do it without pants just because
Obviously, you miss the connection to corporate CEOs in general. GaryB is just “one of the guys”. For example, among hockey fans, especially any Florida hockey fans, It would be an interesting debate to determine who is least liked: Gary Bettman or Tony Hayward.
FYI, if you google Hayward’s name the BP corporate sites come up first since they have purchased all of the search engine positions. Even Gary doesn’t force you to read NHL.com sites first.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Missed my joke
It’s nothing compared to the other leagues, I agree, even though I don’t like the way Bettman has run the NHL since stepping in. I was more so making a joke about Campbell.
the whole corporate structure of the NHL is a joke, really.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 13, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
$1.4 million. Maybe that’s how much it costs to keep the wheel of justice properly lubricated.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Jul 13, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
To give a comparison for people who are curious:
Companies that are roughly $3 billion in revenue, and their CEO total compensation:
Abercrombie & Fitch – $15,912,111
Del Monte Foods – $7,324,207
St Jude Medical – $7,938,920
Hasbro – $7,887,902
Allegheny Energy – $12,589,731
Brink’s – $5,462,476
Electronic Arts – $6,365,823
Molex – $4,007,820
Steelcase – $1,756,593
Honor is no substitute for victory.
so the Steelcase guy is getting totally jobbed.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 13, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Can we make a trade with Steelcase, Bettman for their CEO? As long as the Steelcase guy agrees to get rid of the Bettman point.
I think I’d take a blind squirrel as CEO of the NHL over Bettman, but that’s just me.
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 13, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
How about we trade him for this guy: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20080703/obit-harmon/images/21bbb7d5-e522-4256-8a6b-e83b630eb739.jpg. Their knowledge of hockey is probably comparable and they both make me laugh.
P.S. that is a clown picture … just incase anyone has a phobia
I also am quite amused by the Hawks matching Hjalmarsson’s offer sheet. How much more royally f’ed are they today?
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 13, 2010 11:19 AM EDT reply actions
I think they’re like $100,000 under the cap now. But that will balloon to between $5 and $6 million if they send Huet to the AHL. However, after doing that, they would only have 14 people under contract. None of these numbers includes resigning Neimi.
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room."
by Grp_Cpt_Lionel_Mandrake on Jul 13, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
It really does boil down Niemi’s arbitration hearing – if the arbitrator goes high, they have to let him walk. If he goes relatively lower, they’ll re-sign him, but that take away some of the savings they would get from burying Huet in the minors.
Personally, I’m rooting for the arbitrator to decide on the high side for Niemi – whom would they start in goal if he walked? :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Is it true that nobody can send an offer for Niemi because he elected arbitration?
Managing Editor - HockeyOutsiders.com
by HockeyOutsiders on Jul 13, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I have been hearing that often, so it must be true (?).
Where’s DragonGirl? She’s the one who knows this stuff.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m 99% sure that’s true. When a player or club elects to enter arbitration, it’s considered “final and binding on the parties.” Excepting only the Club’s walk-away rights for player-elected arbitration, the two must sign a contract upon completion of the arbitration. Since Niemi must sign with Chicago unless they walk away, any extension of an offer sheet would probably be construed as a violation of the “no tampering” clause in 7.3 of the CBA.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
We discussed this earlier, in the context of Carcillo’s arbitration. The club can’t walk away if the arb’d amount does not exceed a certain amount (sorry for the double-negative; we think the minimum to walk away to $1.3-1.4 or so, but don’t ask, as we got lots of options there). However, Niemi’s will certainly exceed that amount, I believe, so the Hawks could walk away from any award.
Which I believe they will (I posted yesterday that I think they will walk away from Niemi and also waive both Huet and Campbell).
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
I don’t think that they’d waive Campbell as he is still a good player (just not worth his contract). Yes Huet will be stashed in the minors or Europe, but I can’t see the same happening for Campbell. I think it seems like chicago is going to have to bite the bullet and trade Sharp and/or Bolland
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think anyone will take on Campbell’s salary with its length. The difference between Briere and Campbell is that Campbell has a limited NTC while Briere has an NMC (cannot be waived).
The only way a trade works is if Chicago takes back dead money (bad contract) from another team, and Chicago can’t do that.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
I thought that if the club requests the arbitration, they can’t walk away, but if the player does, they can. Is that a non-issue?
Niemi requested the arbitration – so the walk-away option resides with the club.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, that’s the case. If the Club requests arbitration, there is no walk away for either side. If it’s the player, there’s a walk away clause if the arbitrated salary exceeds the Magic Number. Since Niemi is the initiating party, the Blackhawks can walk away (and darn you, Orange and Black – you posted while I was writing this).
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Sorry. :)
That’s life on a blog.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I knew that Niemi requested this one. I was just thrown by your “final and binding” comment regarding arbitrations.
Yeah, per the CBA. Once a guy files for arbitration he cannot negotiate with anyone else. I was hoping someone would offer Flash an RFA sheet but my dreams were crushed.
Sometimes you need a criminal lawyer, sometimes you need a criminal lawyer.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 13, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d bet that sharp or bolland gets traded
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
or even Seabrook. He only has one year left before he’s RFA and he’s being payed the same money as Hjalmarsson.
If it’s not one of those three, then they most probably have to let go two of Kopecky, Reasoner, and Brouwer.
Should be interesting to watch. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
…and probably more agonizing than gagne trade watch, oh by the way, here’s the thoughts of lightning fans http://www.rawcharge.com/2010/7/12/1564684/waiting-on-kovalchuk-why-steve
on possible trade for gagne.
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I really hope he doesn’t play in the Eastern Conference – that would be depressing for 4-to-6 regular season games this year (actually, it would be depressing for however long he is gone).
I’m still hoping LA works out. Of the options in the story you quoted, I hope it’s Colorado.
Of course, I wish he were staying, but I understand why he may not.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I am also hoping for LA for Gagne as it would be a good team for gagne, they have the cap space w/o having to give us players back in return, and they have some players we covet (bernier, simmonds, etc) but LA seems to be caught up in Kovie drama that likely won’t end until Kovie signs somewhere.
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m hoping Kovie cripples NJ’s cap for years by signing there. If that happens, Gagne may be off to LA then.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s my hope as well. Sure you don’t want a skilled player like Kovy to sign in our division but if kills NJ’s cap for years and makes them have to tear apart their roster, and makes it easier for flyers to fix their problems then I’m all for it. Kovy on the devils doesn’t scare me.
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
We shut him down in round 1. :) His being in the division doesn’t scare me either.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Hi
The SCH guys have a hankering for cheesesteaks, and the rumor is you didn’t honor your debts. That’s just poor form. They need something to sop up the prodigious amounts of alcohol they consume, you know. Have a heart!
by Ugliest Orphan on Jul 13, 2010 11:31 AM EDT reply actions
Agreed.
They’ll just have to drink more.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Fuck off troll. Go back to the Blackhawks bandwagon.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by flyrsfrk05 on Jul 13, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But the cost of tipping the delivery boy might put you guys over the cap.
by Giroux-ling for Cheese on Jul 13, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hartnell is actually taking on Preston Elliot of the WMMR Preston and Steve Show. Barkann claims to have an injured ankle or something. Hartnell and Preston will both be paired up with one of the professional tennis players from the Philadelphia Freedom.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
why would we wish ill on hartnell now when we can dream of the awesomeness of a full year of Hartnell-Briere-Leino. those guys were amazing together.
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
hartnell clearly had a down year last year, but i still think he’s a great player when he’s got his head on right. two years ago he was the perfect pesky flyer that could put up points. i think he’ll be back on track again next season
just a thought taking the stats from the playoffs from that line and projecting them over a full season if they score at the same rate we get the following:
Briere 42 g-64 a-106 pts based on his (12-18-30 in 23 gp in playoffs)
Leino- 30 g- 60a-90 pts based on his (7-14-21 in 19 gp in playoffs)
Hartnell- 28g- 32a- 60 pts based on his (8-9-17 in 23 gp in playoffs)
even though it’s unlikely that they can produce at the same rate (small sample size), it’s ridiculously awesome to think of the point totals if they keep scoring at the same rate.
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
and stay healthy (briere) of course
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Briere stayed relatively healthy last year didnt he? what he play, 74? 75 games right?
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
well Hartnell has a career high of 30g-30a-60 pts from 08-09 so he could certainly put up #s like I posted here if he returns to form. Briere has career highs of 32g-63a-95 pts from back in Buffalo when Briere was healthy all year and at center (the projections posted don’t seem too impossible for him either). the x-factor is ville leino of course.
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
What did Richie lead the team with, 62 points? And you think all 3 of our 2nd line guys could match and/or vastly exceed that?
it was a down year offensively for just about every flyer from the previous year (for example ritchie scored 80 pts in 08-09). Flyers should be better offensively next year than they were this year. I’m also pretty sure that 1st line time on ice isn’t that much significantly more than 2nd line time. going by career highs for Briere and Hartnell those projections are possible (Briere’s is high) if they score at same rate and stay healthy. again leino is the x-factor here. we really have no idea what kind of point totals he can put up or player he will be if he is playing a full season.
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If Briere manages to play all 82 games, he should be right around 60 points. His career average is 0.79 PPG, which would average out to 65 points per 82 games. His average since joining the Flyers is 0.82 PPG, which would be 67 points. 60 wouldn’t be unreasonable if he’s healthy. That is a big caveat, though, since he’s only played 75 games or more in 6 of his 12 seasons.
Hartnell is less likely. For his career, he’s averaged 0.53 PPG, which forecasts out to 43 points. With the Flyers, his average increases to 0.60 PPG, and the forecast goes to 49 points. However, playing a full year with a playmaker should increase his scoring (his goal rate last year was the lowest since he was 20), so I wouldn’t be surprised to see around 50 points from Hartnell. 60 would be a very good season for him. His upside is durability; he’s only played less than 75 games twice in his career.
Leino’s the wild card. He’s averaged 0.29 points per game for his career, but that’s dragged down a lot by his low points rate at Detroit this year. Last year, he averaged 0.69 points per game (in a small sample), and he averaged 0.78 PPG combined between regular season and playoffs for us this year. I’d tentatively forecast him as a 40-45 point player, but with the potential to be higher.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
yeah I was just playing with #s and using the playoff production as an my source for projections on a Hartnell-Briere-Leino line. It’s extremely unlikely they would match their scoring rates from the playoffs (using extremely small sample size) over the course of full season but it is fun and also makes you realize how awesome that line was together
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
which mean
That Hartnell is a good, 2nd liner that at most will get you 60 pts. and be a huge pest for opposing teams, or he can be a terrible, 35 pt 2nd liner that can be a huge pest for us fans.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
I saw that at the bottom of Sarah Baicker’s column but thought they were unrelated/separate.
Preston kicks ass, but he’s probably going to lose bad.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 13, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea they talked about it at length this morning on the show. Thats how I know. Hartnell called in and said that he wasn’t a very good tennis player and that his Dad beats him. Later, Barkann called in and said that Hartnell was actually a pretty decent tennis players so things don’t look good for Preston haha. I am sure I’ll hear all about it tomorrow on the show haha.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
Possible scenarios for Chicago?
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 2:05 PM EDT reply actions
Campbell’s contract is almost impossible to trade as it has a ridiculous cap hit so unless the Isles are willing to take him to help them reach the cap floor; i just don’t see Campbell getting traded. As much as it must hurt chicago, sharp and/ or bolland is headed out of town. ah don’t we all love cap hell
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
This is why I think he will be waived. Sharp is worth more than Campbell at this point.
The only thing that would stop this is Rocky Wirtz’s wallet.
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
really?
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 13, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t mind carcillo signing for one year as long as we didn’t over pay (hopefully less than 1.3 million)
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
after we grossly overpaid shelley, i didnt really care how much we gave carcillo as long as he’s here
You have an agitator, you have two guys that can drop the gloves. He doesn’t kill penalties, and with Zherdev aboard I don’t think he is seeing that much PP time this year. Explain to me how he is really necessary again?
did carcillo ever have pp time? id rather have guys that fill a bunch of roles than one dimensional players. i think carcillo will be great on the front line next year
Yes he did, they gave him time on several different occasions for brief stretches. To me, Carcillo is a one dimensional player, he is a pest/agitator who can pop one in the back of the net every now and then. We already had that on the roster without signing him. I’m not promoting one dimensional players in anyway. I want players that can add value to more than just even strength time. Players like Powe, who can actually kill penalties.
Look I like Carcillo, I like the contract, but I don’t like it witht he signing that have already been made. It’s a wear he fits thing. I don’t want him as a top line player. To me that’s an ugly idea.
Top 10, Penalties Drawn, 2009-2010
Dustin Brown 49
Daniel Carcillo 42
Zach Parise 41
Ryan Kesler 36
Evan Derkane 35
Mike Richards 34
Steve Downie 34
Alex Burrows 32
Evgeni Malkin 31
Pavel Datsyuk 30
Honor is no substitute for victory.
And, since I know some guys will say Carbomb takes too many penalties
Top 10, Penalty Differential (PDrawn – PTaken), 2009-2010
Dustin Brown 39
Zach Parise 30
Pavel Datsyuk 27
Daniel Carcillo 25
Niklas Hagman 24
Martin St. Louis 22
Mike Richards 21
Patrick Kane 21
Ryan Kesler 20
Devin Setoguchi 19
Honor is no substitute for victory.
I still don’t see where he fits. If they hadn’t signed Shelley, I’d be very excited about this (I know they are two vastly different players), but the way the lineup is looking, I just don’t see how his game fits. Well I can guess, but I don’t like anything that keeps popping in to my head.
shelley doesn’t fit, carcillo does.
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
But that's my point!
Shelley is here. This signing after Shelley, really isn’t great. It’s another, if we ignore everything else, this looks good. But given the whole of the off season, and the players already here at the time of the signing…well…yeah, not the best move.
I’d like it that way, but he’s there as a 4th liner. That means Carcillo is either a top liner, or the one Giroux is feeding. I don’t really like those 2 options. Look he can have a great year, I just don’t like having all these guys that add grit…especially when we have to lose a player that will take away fromt he skill of the team at some point.
" A day after he was spotted at SkateZone, Dan Carcillo signs a one-year deal with the #Flyers." via Sarah Baicker as well. so how much?
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:12 PM EDT reply actions
That’s an ok amount.
I’m sure it means that Gagne is one step out the door, though. :(
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s actually a very good amount. that’s less than jody shelley
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Carcillos dives are an insult to the rest of thr team
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 13, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The refs figured it out.
He will be call for that crap next year
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 13, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
if it gets us a pp i’ll take it. carbomb has grown on me and lavy has done great work with him so far
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If he is too much of a head case, this contract is vert attractive on the trade market.
He is getting better but he still has a long way to go to actually be a team player, and reach his potential.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 13, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
He embarrassed me in the playoffs last year. I was a big backer of him, frankly I still like his game, but his acting in the playoffs was a joke.
Completely happy with waiving Gagne, but what we’re doing with the space is disturbing. I wouldn’t waive Gagne (even in his lackluster state) just so I can sign another idiot with the space created
Preaching the Inglewood Jack
by CoburnsCuddleBuddy on Jul 13, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
and I guess Pitt fans hate when Crosby dives too?
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
No, they cant mann up to that.
The Majority of them cant see anything wrong with him.
“He is Perfect”
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the Shelly signing helped get Carcillo for the cheeper price
And since Carcillo will be playing in the NHL and not in the minors (like Shelly)
It might turn out to be a happy accident
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 13, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
We’ll pay 1.1. a year for the next three year so we could save 400k on a one year contract with Carcillo?
Yay?
Do you think really we will keep him for 3 years?
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 13, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. Totally fine with this contract value and player…but why would you bring in Shelley if this was down the road. I don’t get this. I know Shelley is a heavy weight, and Carcillo is an agitator/pest who can drop em, and has some offensive upside…but…I just get sick of having some many guys that are there for a stir the pot, protection role.
carbomb plays well with ritchie so i see some point in bringing him back
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
so lines will be:
Carter-Richards-Carcillo
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Jvr-Giroux-Zherdev
Lappy-Betts-Powe? Shelley
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:20 PM EDT reply actions
just need to resign Powe, trade Gagne, waive cote
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure all three are currently in the works.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe waive boosh and get goalie in return for gagne or sign a goalie
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been thinking about that possibility as well. I wouldn’t be upset to keep Boucher, though. Losing one “should-retire-as-a-Flyer” is enough for one season.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but Boosh isn’t a starter or that much of an upgrade over Backlund who probably should get some games in nhl this season and if it means we can get another better goalie, i don’t mind boosh going. boosh is also injured
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he may be gone too then.
Poo.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 13, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Powe is done … They can’t possibly resign him just to stick him in the minors again at this point … I’d rescind the qualifying offer and let him walk right now … just out of respect for th player
i think Powe is a very useful player as he has speed, can kill penalties, play gritty in the corners, and score like 10 goals a year
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
yes he is … but not with how the team is now … like I said out of respect for the player they should let him go so he can find a job elsewhere
why they should have cap space for him once they trade gagne and he is a great roleplayer. no one brought in takes away his spot
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
so maybe shelley has a purpose. during the playoffs i was getting really tired of teams taking runs at our players (gang attack on ritchie, jvr and giroux getting sticks to the face, hawks taking runs at leino).
by historywillbemade on Jul 13, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
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