Wednesday Morning Fly By: Talking Marc and Simon
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 14, 2010 10:35 AM EDT
in Morning Fly By
Email
Print
Today's open discussion thread, complete with your daily dose of Philadelphia Flyers news and notes...
- Look for the newest episode of Broad Street Hockey Radio to be up later today.
- In case you missed it, the Flyers signed Dan Carcillo to a one-year $1.075 mill contract yesterday: [BSH]
- Philadelphia was also picked to host the 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: [BSH]
- The Flyers also signed restricted free agent David Laliberte to a two-way, one-year, $550,000 salary: [capgeek]
- A pretty solid look at the Flyers offseason and best prospects: [Meltzer's Musings]
- Why moving Marc Savard would be bad for the Bruins. Seriously, him and Simon Gagne should talk about it and team up. [From the Rink]
- Trying to see Jody Shelley as a replacement for Asham is fine, but then I ask: what's Dan Carcillo? [Phila.Bright]
- Why Ilya Kovalchuk should sign with the Kings: [From The Rink]
- Is Josh Harding the best relief goalie in the NHL? [Puck Prospectus]
- Lastly, Danny Syvret will join Corey Perry and Brandon Prust as honorary co-chairs of the London (Ontario) Special Olympics. [London Free Press]
283 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Scott Hartnell at his celebrity Tennis match:
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 14, 2010 11:06 AM EDT reply actions
I’m really looking forward to read the same things I’ve been reading for past two weeks. Sounds like fun… eh? Could October get here?
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
We could talk about the Flyers farm system, and how bad it is right now instead of not being able to figure out what the heck Homer’s plan is.
Does that help?
Could we talk about something that is good? For a change… Like, like… Like what though???
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
Hmmm, the Frozen Four is awesome news, but not really for you since you are on a different continent. You could share in my joy for that if you’d like though…
Assuming you’re not a Pardubice fan, it’s good news that Hasek’s moving on to Spartak Moscow
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Hahaha. I don’t mind Pardubice but I’m far from being their fan. So yeah, that’s kinda good news :)
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
iunno the fact that we won the east and almost pulled off huge upset in the SCF….only to be let down by poor goaltending…which we still haven’t addressed…sigh I tried
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Not for me. I just end up believing it leads to either a collapse and rebuild or the team continues to overpay free agents and trade draft picks for proven players thus keeping the cupboard barren.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 11:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn’t say carcillo or shelley is a replacement for asham. For the exception of the finals carcillo and asham both held down roster spots on different lines. Carcillo isn’t replacing anyone. Sure asham and carcillo have similar skill sets but that doesn’t mean one is replacing the other.
The only person shelley could conceivably replace is riley cote. At least shelley is a good enough hockey player to play a fourth line role and he’s a punching bag that hits back. I’d venture to say shelley is twice the player cote is but then it sounds like I’m justifying his salary being double cote’s.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 11:23 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Sure asham and carcillo have similar skill sets but that doesn’t mean one is replacing the other.
Very good point. With that line of thinking in mind I would ten fold rather have Asham back then Carcillo. Asham has more overall skill, more discipline and less drama. People have to stop looking at Shelley as anything other then an answer for the real legitimate heavyweights in not only the division but the conference. And enough with thinking Carcillo, Asham or Laperiere are adequate enough to counter guys like Boogaard, Goddard, Prust or Clarkson. It is just not logical. And for matter neither is signing Carcillo for a million.
Just Call Me "M"!
Asham has more overall skill, more discipline and less drama.
I strongly argue that Asham has more overall skill then Carcillo
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
meant to be a reply to Pdaddy
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
I seem to remember Asham doing a pretty good job keeping up offensively with Giroux. He is definitely faster then Carcillo, abetter skater and has better hands. IMO
Just Call Me "M"!
……And Asham would be less money. Not by much but I feel paying Carcillo a million is way worse then paying shelley a million any day.
Just Call Me "M"!
I thought I heard Asham was asking for 1.8. I could have hallucinated that.
I’m just not operating on the assumption that Asham is cheaper than Powe or Carcillo. He was our best forward during a Stanley Cup Finals game; that’s worth cash money to someone.
He also gets off the ice for a lone change when he is supposed to, rather than constantly getting caught out there for an extra 20 seconds (probably my biggest pet peeve with Carcillo).
i would say smarter NHL player. Like I said, Carcillo for 1 mill plays 1st line, Asham plays 4th line.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Carcillo on a 1st line is when I stop watching Flyers hockey. It is absurd as putting Brent Fedyk with Eric Lindros. INSULTING!!!!!!!!!!!
Just Call Me "M"!
OK
have fun not watching hockey next season, because thats why we signed him. Richards wanted Carcillo on his line
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
This only works if indeed they wise up and make Richards the 3rd line center behind Briere and Giroux, with Carter on a wing on the second line. I would suck up watching Richards laugh at Carcillo’s antics next season for that.
Just Call Me "M"!
He played with him last year, and Carcillo was great. Name another player you would want on that wing spot(not naming Gagne)
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Carter – Richards – ?
Hartnell – Briere – Lenio
JVR – Giroux – ?
Lappy – Betts – Powe
Shelly
I would rather have Carcillo on 1st line and Sherdev on 3rd line then vise versa.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Stop with Richards as the 1st line center. That is just not prudent use of Richards talents.
Hartnell – Briere – Leino
JVR – Giroux – Carter
Zherdev – Richards – Carcillo(yuk)
Shelley/Powe/Asham – Betts – Laperiere
Switch around Zherdev and JVR as needed.
Just Call Me "M"!
carter would only wing for Richards though, so that wont work.
which means, unless you break up the HBL line, that my lines are whats going to start off the year
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
We will see and I have a memory like an elephant. And Carter has been trying to get of Richards shadow since World Juniors incase that hasn’t been obvious to you.
Just Call Me "M"!
but he wants to be a center, and unless thats 4th line, we dont have room for a center.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
and Richie and carter are the definition of butt buddies, Im sure they love playing together.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Ever noticed how Carter plays really well when Richards is out of the line up? They are friends yes but their competition is almost like that of siblings.
Just Call Me "M"!
actually
I think Carter playes his best when he plays with Richie. I know he was hurt in the cup, But our to OT line is usually Carter and Richards, because they have great chemistry. If Carter necer switched to center, I bet he would have been richies winger his whole career.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
bingo. so Zherdev replaces Asham, Carcillo stays Carcillo, and Carter moves over to replace gagne…or maybe
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you and JpH89 going to fight at the next pick-up game? You can be Shelley, and he can be Carcillo.
OK, but Coburn is notorious for staying on the ice longer then needed, but would you take a lesser talent because of that.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
stretching it with that comparison, Coburn brings far more to the table than Carcillo. You wouldnt take lesser talent just because a player stays a little longer on the ice, that’s just one of the many on the list of negatives on carcillo
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 14, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
The problem is, Coburn gets caught on the ice b/c they are trapped in the defensive zone. Carcillo makes 2 headfakes to the bench when he has time to get there, but then decides not to go b/c he has a chance to get some more offensive zone time with the play moving forward with 2/3rd of the new line. Look, it’s not something I can prove unless you come to all the games with me and I can point it out to you.
I can tell you this. I miss 10 games total this year live, and from being there, yuor comparison is terrible to Coburn. In no sense are they equivalent in why they stay out on the ice. You can see the winger set to come on for Carcillo get pissed, they often put their arms up in the air and turn to Berube.
The problem is, Coburn gets caught on the ice b/c they are trapped in the defensive zone.
ok, I stopped reading right there. Coburn gets caught because he gets to recluse carrying the puck into the offensive zone, and need to backtrack the whole ice to get back.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Well if you won’t read what I write, I won’t bother trying to have a conversation with you. You have demonstrated your hate for Coburn several times, in particular him carrying the puck. Your comparison still doesn’t hold of Coburn taking long shifts. A player selfishly staying out too long is in no way the same as a player who makes a mistake and gets caught up in a long shift.
But please continue to cherry pick certain things and ignore the crux of the discussion.
I dont hate coburn, I just think, over the past two years, his negative have ought-weighed his positives. Carle and Kimmo carry the puck, but they dont try and play forward when they get in the zone, leaving a good forward(Carter, Giroux, Briere) to play the point, and then we have a weak defense during the next rush. if he would stop that, and work on little things like not getting shots blocked, he would be a better player, but he has not yet deserved his 3.2 million that hes getting
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Faster, yeas, But most of ashams goals were tap ins. Carcillo actually makes plays. Plus, Asham cant play with 1st liners, where Carcillo is known to play very well with Richie. I love Asham, but If it came down to that final roster spot between asham and Powe, I would take Powe.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Powe is completely useless to me but again my opinion. He is as anonymous as it gets.
Asham’s tap ins come with being able to handle playing on the rush by Giroux. Carcillo makes plays?? He scored one open net overtime winner and now he has earned a spot with Richards. Come one Man! The discipline factor is enough for me to not like Carcillo.
Just Call Me "M"!
Carcillo – 12 goals(9 with Richie)
Asham – 10 goals (4 with Giroux)
So if you do the math, and argue how many goals each would score over an 82 games with their respective centers, Carcillo would have 19, Asham would have 7.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Powe>Asham>Carcillo for me.
Powe is anonymous because he does what he’s supposed to do. You know when team’s dont score on the powerplay? That’s because Powe is helping. He’s not doing it all or anything, but he definitely helps
Would you rather take Powe’s anonymity or Carcillo riling up the opposing team to score against us. And fearing when he’s going to overreact and take a bad penalty. We’ve got enough of that with Hartnell, who seemed to cool himself off once Lavy got after him. Carcillo on the other hand was sat because Lavy couldnt trust him/didnt think he’d be any use against the Blackhawks.
Powe’s got speed and can penalty kill.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 14, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
yes
Powe should be our 4th line winger over shitty shelly
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Agreed, Powe is speedy, defensively responsible (most of the time), gets into the corners, can score some goals, and kills penalties. Shelley fights…yay…scratch him. resign powe
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Who is going to fight Boogaard/Prust, Goddard/Ruppe, Clarkson/Peters and Gilles/Jackman, not Carcillo, Asham, Powe or Laperiere. Realize this as a fact.
Just Call Me "M"!
Lappy, Carcillo, or not fight at all, and let other teams waste a spot on 3 min. goons
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
You are really not getting it but that is okay. It is not a popular move but if anyone praises Shelley beating up for Rupp after he cheap shots Hartnell next year I will tell them to STFU, especially you.
Just Call Me "M"!
I dont mind Shelly, I mind his 1.1 million dollars.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
your right, but Carcillo > Shelly
like I said, i think the Shelly signing was just to scare Carcillo into signing cheaper
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
No, it is to have an answer for the heavyweight fighters in the division and the conference that we could not counter last year.
Just Call Me "M"!
I say we countered the Rangers, Devils, and Islanders good last year. Pitt is just a different animal. They have a mental edge over us. and its not like Players like Orr were hurting us last year, considering carcillo got him to take a 6 min penalty
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
What? Ruppe and Goddard made fun of us. Toronto literally intimidated the Flyers. Same with Ottawa. We are just better then the rangers, Islanders and the devils, but we have no answer for there top fighters. And look at it as a wash if those teams don’t play there fighters (shortening their bench) so would the Flyers. WASH.
Just Call Me "M"!
When did ottawa or toronto intimidate us? Carcillo made Orr look silly. Im not saying we dont need a fighter, but we dont need one of the 3 mins a game fighters(aka: Cote or Shelly)
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
No Carcillo turtled against Orr and lost respect in my eyes and did you miss the last game against Ottawa when Neil, Carkner and Michalek bitch slapped us all over the ice in route to 7-4 loss. Come on Man facts are facts.
Just Call Me "M"!
not to butt in but didn’t we get a nice little 9 minute power play in the orr incident? i wouldn’t go so far as to knock carcillo for “turtling” in that instance. but yes now that we have shelley, orr will have someone his own size to pick on.
Why is it admirable to draw a penalty and completely compromise you integrity. In the long run you have not won anything especially the hearts of the team. It is a man’s sport and if you are not playing like that the other men on your team or not lose respect.
Just Call Me "M"!
carcillo’s integrity was compromised long before that game M and drawing a 9 minute power play will not lose the respect of his teammates. i’ve seen far worse “fake attempts at dropping the gloves” which is more cowardly in my mind then not answering the bell when challenged to a fight.
Ok, so we lost a game to ottawa, ish happens. we also lost 1-0 to Edmonton, but heaven forbid we blame our Captain for failing to lead the team to score a single goal. Also, we scored twice on those orr penalties, whithout them, the game is tied and it goes into Ot and we possably lose, and that point makes the difference from getting the the SCF and missing the playoffs.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
How many other teams in our division made the Stanley Cup Finals last year? I think that’s a pretty good answer.
Fine, but I’m saying that our lack of a heavyweight had nothing to do with our success, or lack or it in the regular season, last year.
yes but it was tiring to see the hawks take runs at our skilled players (Briere, Leino, Giroux), or watching Montreal hit us with cheap high sticks to G and JVR, and Boston attack Richards with two players
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Savard and lucic attaked richards. No enforcer would ever be on the ice against them if your coach understands matchups. In the other two series asham and carcillo should have been enough to deter those instances. And if laperriere wasn’t injured I’m sure he would have taken care of it. No heavyweight was needed.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 1:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
1) Shelley wouldn’t play in the postseason.
2) No enforcer on any other team seems to stop Briere from swinging his stick at the faces of opponents.
This is why it is so nice to have gotten O’Donnell. We haven’t had a real physical enforcer like that on defense in a long time and having this player allows for the line up to flow without inserting Shelley unless it is message time.
Just Call Me "M"!
I completely agree with you, but… Pronger?
Visit the BSH Store :: Get us on Twitter :: facebook, too!
Broad Street Hockey - SBN's Philadelphia Flyers blog. 2010 Eastern Conference Champions.
by Travis Hughes on Jul 14, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Pronger is a huge physical presence and a tough player, but he is not going to punch someone in the face if that is what is needed, nor should he be taken off the ice by a goon. Having a tough guy on defense like O’Donnell allows for policing without compromising the forward lines or match-ups.
Just Call Me "M"!
He’s only going to punch someone in the face if it’s unprovoked.
I do like the O’Donnell signing, but I think his utility should be independent from our judgment of Jody Shelley.
There is no such thing as a heavyweight in the playoffs. Goddard didn’t even play during the Penguins run but for the grind of the regular season you can not lose intimidation games to Ottawa, Toronto, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, etc. That could be the difference in the standings to not need a miracle on the final day.
Just Call Me "M"!
ok, but were arent intimadated by Toronto or ottowa or TB, we lost a lot of games last year because our superstars werent playing to their full ability. And 1/2 the teams your naming didnt even make the playoffs.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Who the hell does Pittsburgh have that’s intimidating us?
How about instead of trying to win the intimidation game in the regular season, we make like Pittsburgh and Washington, and score lots of goals with a tough lineup that doesn’t need a rock-handed enforcer?
What? Have you heard of or seen the act of Goddard toying with Cote or Rupp attacking Hartnell like three times a game? We aren’t getting Shelley to beat up teams to win but rather combat a certain role that this team was unable to combat over the last five years.
Just Call Me "M"!
Yeah, people toying with Cote was the Achilles’ heel of this team.
I just don’t think it’s necessary. We weren’t losing to the Penguins for those reasons.
That doesn’t make sense because even if Carcillo had have signed cheaper, you are still paying Shelly $1.1 mil.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 14, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
unless hes goes to the Phantoms
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Well, then that is stupid financial management. Sign one useless player so as to scare another useless player into signing cheaper? This is the kind of attitude that leads to being $2 mil. over the cap.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 14, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought Asham had a good season and I was hoping he would stay over Carcillo. He was invaluable during the playoffs, and I can’t remember him ever taking a shift off. Ever.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 14, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
again
I would take Asham over carcillo if it was for the 4th line, but were talking about 1st line, and Carcillo is a better fit with Richards and Carter then Asham would be.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
just annoys me that Carcillo is the answer for a winger for Richards. I hope that Homer is satisfied with that for the future.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 14, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I am, Richards is, and Im sure Homer is too. Your the only one whos angry at this
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
yeh i doubt that. this forum doesnt consititute the entire flyers fanbase
how you guys accept a 4th liner as a 1st line winger doesnt make any sense.
i understand he plays okay with richards, that doesnt mean you settle for it. i understand we might be stuck with it because of the cap this season.
but if Carcillo is the longterm solution for a 1st line winger on this team, that’s disappointing that you guys are willing to settle for that
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 14, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
i understand he plays okay with richards, that doesnt mean you settle for it.
Thats a great reason to settle for it. Carcillo would score just as many goals as Gagne would next season, is less of an injury risk, and draws penalties. I understand that Zherdev could play there, but then Giroux and jvr are back at square 1 and would remain unproductive.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
like i said i understand settling for it for this season, but not long term.
if that’s the case then we mine as well give Carcillo a 10 year contract because he’s the only guy we think Richie can play with and we shouldnt try to upgrade ever. or so the mindset here goes.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 14, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Carcillo is not going to draw more penalties. His diving head fake has become a farce and anything less then death won’t result in him drawing a penalty. He is not honorable the way he dives and fakes hits, it’s embarrassing.
Just Call Me "M"!
the better move out of all this would have been to go with Foster instead of Meszo, not give leighton a contract.
maybe instead of Zerdev, just settle for Powe or Asham on the 3rd line again. Keep Gagne and move Carter for a some kind of package involving a top of line Right Wing.
We had a chance to improve the defense, get a decent priced starting goalie and make a major upgrade at the 1st line wing without moving Gagne, and homer messed it all up. frustrating
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 14, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Who says foster would have signed here? And which first-line RWs are available?
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 12:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
sounds to me someone still hates Carcillo because we traded Upshall for him. Otherwise, you would know that it worked all season, and I guess being embarrassed(which it isnt, its awesome) is just too much to handle. I guess less power plays and less of a chance at winning games are your thing, but thats not mine
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
OK asshole for the record i dont give a shit about upshall
so dont put words in mouth.
really it worked all season in which we barely made the playoffs.
If Carcillo is so important to the FLyers 1st line why wasnt he playing with the Cup on the line?
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 14, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
your the one satisfied with a 4th line agitator on your first line, isnt you that hates winning games?
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 14, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
and I was talking to Pdaddy brah
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
I am still mad about that useless trade. But to think diving and making an ass of yourself is awesome begs the question of personal integrity. He is a clown and expect more results like the Caps game (29 PIM) then Leafs games (faking a head shot and then scoring a goal)
Just Call Me "M"!
But that doesnt change the fact that he will be a better player on the 1st line then the 3rd line. In terms of overall performance, Carcillo is a better 1st liner then Asham, and Sherdev is a better 3rd liner then Carcillo and Asham. Unless there is a major roster shakeup, I firmly believe Carcillo will start 1st line.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
well they had to trade upshall to get Briere and Giroux on the ice b/c the cap
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Richards is
There is still not real evidence of this. Is there a quote from someone saying that Richards specifically wants to play with Carcillo?
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 14, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont have a quote on me, but I remember him saying last season that Carcillo helps his game, and that he helps carcillos game.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Meh. Thats pretty much means nothing to me. Having a legitimate scorer hockey player on the 1st line with Richards is whats really going to help his game.
Carcillo really has no place on this team. Everything that he brings to table can be done better by someone else except for the few things that only Carcillo does. And those can be done without.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 14, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Carters a legit scorer
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Yes, he can be. But Carcillo is not. Its the same issue with Giroux’s linemates. Why waste the talent and ability of both Richards and Carter by assigning them a guy like Carcillo?
Hence the reason Carcillo has no spot on this team. He can’t play on a scoring line with Richards & Carter or Giroux and he can’t even play on our 4th line with Betts and Lappy because he can’t play defense.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 14, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I wasn’t thinking of which lines they were going ot be on. But with Richards a full season he may do pretty well, now the question is who is on the other side.
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 14, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Carter most likely
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Yeah most likely, but who knows. We all know either Gagne or Carter is on the way out, I just want to know so I know which way we are going!
#1 Flyers Fan in New York
by Lindbergh 31 on Jul 14, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Holmgren moves a d man or another high priced forward. Its been a crazy off season I doubt anyone saw the mezaros trade or the shelley. And zherdev signings coming, so there could still be some shocking moves left.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 12:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Faster? Than Carcillo? Did I read this right? Asham? Aaron Asham? Really?
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Not light speed but both faster and a better skater. Obviously you disagree. I am cool with that.
Just Call Me "M"!
I’m not sure how you can say that. I like Asham. But he is not faster. I’ve seen them live and Carcillo is VERY quick.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Listen with a stop watch and an open rink I am not sure who wins a foot race but have to acknowledge Asham’s skill level as being higher then Carcillo’s. The choice between the two I would choose Asham over Carcillo.
Just Call Me "M"!
I think they have similar but different roles on a team. The problem is that Asham is too similar to other players who are younger and cheaper. Don’t misunderstand me… I liked Asham and his play last year. He is a very good player, but I’m not sure Lavvy’s system needs/fully utilizes his skill set.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
I wouldn’t say he has that much more skill just that he is more consistent and has a better temper than carcillo.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 12:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Hannibal Lechter has a better temper than Carcillo. :P Asham is very consistent and a good solid player. But Carcillo has been steadily improving. My hope is that with Shelley taking on the enforcer role on the 4th line, that Carcillo can focus more on learning to play rather than his act.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
Homers plan
Doe anybody else think that Homer planned on trading Gagne before we were over the cap? We heard the rumors before e signed sherdev. My idea is that this was his last year with us anyway, so Homer feels that he might as well get the most he can for him this summer then losing him for nothing next year.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
honestly i doubt. but who the hell knows with a guy who’s willing to pay 4 million for a 5th defenseman and sign an iffy goalie to a contract all before free agency actually started.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 14, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
The defensmen signings a predicated on playing as system defense which worked really well for Leighton without this much talent and depth. This is the gamble they are making instead of signing a high priced goaltender in which case none of the high priced goaltenders got to the final.
Just Call Me "M"!
thats fine, if you’re signing a guy like Foster, but not 4 million to frikken Meszarus
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 14, 2010 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
you dont agree to 4 million to a free agent 4th/5th defenseman
Meszaros better play like a hero, otherwise it’s a waste of money.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 14, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Meszaros is better then Coburn, who got 3.2. I dont like eithers pay, but Thats how the NHL works
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
i hope so, the stuff i read about meszo from lightning fans and his mental gaffes and turnovers, makes me rather nervous about 4 mil a year.
by bleedorangewhiteblack on Jul 14, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Meszaros is probably an improvement on the pp as he has a shot from blueline, unlike Coburn, who single-handedly hurts the powerplay with his shots that miss the net and then go back down our end
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because that’s how Paul Holmgren works doesn’t mean that’s how the NHL works. Rather than say “that’s just how it is”, you could also look at it as Paul Holmgren just overpaid for two guys while the rest of the NHL was out grabbing free agents for as much or less than Coburn.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 14, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
But if Meszo and Coburn play like they are expected, not as their worst years have shown, this will be a monster defense. Coburn got his shit together by the end of the year and played just as big in the playoffs as everyone else. I am looking forward to him keeping it simple stupid like he di at the end of the year and really playing big minutes next to Kimmo. Meszo is with Pronger and Carle is with O’Donnell. IMO Swapping Carl and Meszo is time of the game related.
Just Call Me "M"!
I never said it won’t be a monster defense. But swapping Meszo for Seidenberg would have been a monster defense too. Same with Jordan Leopold, Toni Lydman, Henrik Tallinder, or Derek Morris.
I don’t understand why everyone’s defense of Homer is “But he improved the team!” That’s not the gripe, that’s not what everyone is complaining about.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 14, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone figured out how Darryl Sutter works? He was out grabbing free agents like Jokinen and Tanguay.
by TopShelfTony on Jul 14, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, he already has his replacement working under him in Jay Feaster… He went off the deep end this past year.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 14, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Talk about planned obsolescence. Or is it the sword of Damocles?
by TopShelfTony on Jul 14, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes and terrible goaltending lost us the cup. Try to cover it up as much as possible with a better 3rd pair and more rested top 4 but that’s not going to magically improve leighton as a goalie.
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
you still missing the point that the goalie market doesnt help are situation for next season anyway. nobody but Mason will be ay help.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
there were upgrades over leighton to be had in a buyers market. Homer talked to Nabby and Turco got scared and chickened out instead of waiting them out and upgrading for cheap
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Playing the 3rd d pairing lost us the cup, not necessarily the goaltending. Carter missing the open net lost us the cup, Gagne reverting back to the Gagne we are familiar with lost us the cup.
Just Call Me "M"!
Wow you really went there. Lovely.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
I know you love him but it is time for the truth since he is about to be out of here. He has been inconsistent, fragile and soft way more then superstar.
Just Call Me "M"!
Inconsistent? Yeah, pretty much like the whole team. Fragile? Okay, I’ll give you that. Soft? Get out with this crap.
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
Ya, you can’t call Gags soft when came back from a broken foot and was the X-factor in the Boston series.
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 14, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Over the ten years he has worked his ass off becoming a better two way forward but he has never initiated contact and when he has he has been brilliant. Like the Boston series, forget the goals he was actually finishing checks and commanding respect in the crease. That is what he has failed to do over his career. That is where I come up with soft. Every hockey player is tough.
Just Call Me "M"!
I think the inconsistency comes out of the fragility. Look at it this way, Gags had two 40+ goal seasons in a row, and the second one of them was during a statistically terrible season owing to the fact that it was the worst season in Flyers history. Then that concussion happens. After 05-06 and 06-07, Gags was in his prime, and on the cusp of something great. The injuries took that away from him. Oh and his chemistry with Foppa was something special too.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 14, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
So you can say Forsberg made him better then he ever was right. Does that get him credit? Where did the name Foppa ever come from?
Just Call Me "M"!
Then you’d be getting into the LeClair Lindros argument again. The truth is somewhere in between I guess.
And as for where did the name Foppa ever come from, here’s a discussion thread on that mystery
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 15, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Also don’t forget that in that second 40 goal season, Forsberg only played 40 games for us before the Nashville trade.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 15, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Peter Forsberg once told me that Simon Gagne was the purest shooter he’d ever played with.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
If you play any of NHL08, NHL09, NHL10, as the Flyers you would know what I’m talking about. At least once per game one of the commentators mentions that Forsberg told him about Gagne. Also repeated faaar too much is “A blast from the point, and it’s a little stick of dynamite! Not the shot, but Kimmo Timonen”.
Backing Backlund for 2010-2011
Forsberg/Gagne thing was really annoying
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 14, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a bit annoying that the Briere-Gagne experiment never worked for long enough. Richie is our best all-round forward, and those two together do a great job defensively, but Gags might be able to score more if he had a center with a bit more creativity and pure playmaking talent. None of this is relevant any more I guess. Hopefully he gets the right center in whichever Western Conference team he ends up being traded to.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 15, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Gagne-Briere-Knuble was a nice line…. But we had one or two shifts this year which were Gagne-Briere-Giroux, and like 2 games I think that were Gagne-Briere-Leino, and both of those looked pretty darn good too.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 15, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
OT had the feeling that the flyers would inevitably win until they were deflated by Leighton having a brain fart. Leighton’s inability to make routine saves killed us and cost us several games. The only game we lost that Leighton didn’t cost us was game 2 and it can be argued that Niemi stole game 2
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean when the team and its offensive leaders failed to capitalize on their opportunities over and over again? Before the goal and in the final minutes of the game while Leighton was keeping us in the hunt for overtime right?
Just Call Me "M"!
Leighton didn’t really do much to keep us in the game. We dominated most of the 3rd and OT. Eventually someone was going to bury one on Niemi had Leights not had a brain fart
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Niemi was bad too. If jeff carter could have scored in game 6 we wouldn’t have ever been subjected to that kane goal. Leighton went jekll and hyde in the ecf and scf
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 12:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
His performance in the ECF is overrated. Three shutouts, well done, not gonna take that away from him. But he was making, what 20 saves? Out of them only a few of them were dangerous shots coz the defense was doing a good job of keeping the shooters on the outside.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 14, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
He faced 28 and 30 shots in games 1 and 2 vs. Montreal, so I give Leighton full marks for those games. However, I agree with you with his performance in game 4 – he only faced 17 shots. Our defensive performance is why we won that game.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8468038&view=log&season=20092010
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 15, 2010 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions
but again its not about the # of shots; it’s the quality of stops. for example, in that series the flyers defense kept most the shots to the outside or the point, thus leighton had a lot of easy saves to make. it’s not like leighton stole game 1 or 2 (he did do an excellent job in early parts of those games though), the flyers just manhandled the habs
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, but people go out of their way to give him virtually no credit for his performance in the postseason. Our defense was indeed wonderful, but Leighton was one of the reasons we got to the SCF. I dind’t claim he stole games 1 or 2 against Montreal, but he did do his part – that’s all you can ask a goaltender to do.
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 15, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Back to original post by jph: was Gagne going part of Homer’s original plan? Absolutely not. Or at least, let’s hope not! If it was, he is more of an idiot (or tyrant) than I thought. Completely wrong way to do this. (I posted on this in the more recent Gagne thread).
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
Agent for Simon Gagne tells ESPN.com he’s been given permission by Flyers to talk directly to teams but so far there’s no deal…
I love the Lightning AND the Flyers... go ahead, preach me!
Dare to follow my childish, biased, petty and cheesy alter ego.
American Cheese, B!tch!
Sounds like things are moving along. Hopefully there are a few teams interested in Gags.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 12:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
so gags is looking for an extension after the trade. At least the flyers are letting him find somewhere he wants to go
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Its not good if he’s looking for an extension. At least from a Flyers point of view. It means not only do the flyers have to come to deal on the trade but gagne and the team have to come to terms. Looks like this could continue to get dragged out.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 12:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The notion he would ever voluntarily take a pay cut has only been a wild hope amongst hopes.
And that was before this process began.
The chances that a competitor like Gagne who is only 30, is, or was ever willing to sacrifise his last big pay day was, and is iinfinitesimally small.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
My thoughts have nothing to do with a pay cut. It just know it would easier to trade him if he wasn’t also trying to get a contract extension agreed upon while the trade was being worked out. Him wanting an extension adds another moving part that can hurt his trade value.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 12:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If a team knows ahead if time they can acquire and keep a guy like Gangne for a price and years thats mutually agreeable, they will Definitely be happy to give fair vale to him.
.
Too many teams want him, and they want him for more than a season
I dont see it as something to hurt his trade value at all
I see it as a good thing.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Its a double edge sword. Gagne could want more years then the team is willing to give. Thus it either makes a deal impossible or the flyers have to take a lesser return in order for the team to be willing to sign gagne and allow the trade to go through. Also what if the team that offers the best trade value isn’t the team that offers gagne the best contract. Its basically the same situtation in that the flyers take less return to move gagne. Sure him signing and extension could help but it could hurt too.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 1:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
a razors edge
Gagne and his agent has to walk a tightrope.
If they get too greedy they could make a team lose interest.
If Gagne wants a certain team he will have to compromise with them
If they do that he can get a deal set up to go to that team
Then…..
Once a team and Gagne come to terms, Then the Flyers say "we want this or we will deal him to another team. Now the Flyers cant be total dicks about this. They have to walk a tightrope too
The fact we are over the cap will not put us at a disadvantage.
Im confident Gagne will get a very good payday, and we will get a good return for him
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
return for gagne is really dependent on the # of teams bidding for him
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If they get too greedy they could make a team lose interest.
Good point. Turco is a good example.
by TopShelfTony on Jul 14, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Marty Turco sure must be kicking himself now for turning down the flyers offer. Let’s see starting job with Flyers behind great defense at 2 million a year for 3 years, or sitting on his ass hoping someone will give him anything to be a hacking. Great choice you made there Marty. No wonder his agent kept begging Homer for status updates.
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No doubt he’ll get a gig at some point, probably sooner rather than later, if only because of injury. Who knows, maybe waiting might turn out better for him in the long run. We’ll just see when/where/if he lands.
by TopShelfTony on Jul 14, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats the fucking worst Hikui I ever read
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Flyers fans are mad
Gagne is about to go
Stanley cup or bust
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Pittsburgh fucking sucks
Chicago sucks at math
Ovechkin will fail
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
unfortunately it ended in 6
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
what was wrong with the 1st one?
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
ToddtheFox busts balls
Always counting to seven
I can bust balls too
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
hey everyone. first post. ive been on here reading articles and comments for a few months now. finally decided to join because most everyone seems pretty knowledgeable and respectful, even to fans of other teams, which is something you don’t see on any of the other blogs out there. i got sick of reading my city is better than yours comments all day long. looking forward to getting involved on here!
Welcone
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
welcome aboard. i did the same thing. i read this site for over a year and then joined after the boston series
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice. Welcome aboard. We’re glad to have ya…
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 14, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
a lot of people are distraught over re-signing carcillo. i’m not really sure how i feel about it yet. i think that when he is playing the way he should he is very effective. he has the ability to take other teams off their game better than anyone on the team. and he can chip in offensively on a somewhat regular basis. however, i think he takes stupid penalties and can be a ticking time-bomb to say the least. plus he’s a player that gets a lot of reputation penalties. overall i think he is a positive, but with the cap the way it is right now, i’m not convinced the move was a great one.
Actuyally I seem to be the only one distraught every one else seems to think he is the first line winger answer. At least Jph89 anyway.
Just Call Me "M"!
unfortunately i think that is the plan. well, at least to play on the richards line. i don’t really know that this team has a “first” line. but richards is arguably our top forward. he’s certainly our most important forward. that being the case, its important that he feels comfortable playing with his linemates. if he has said he likes playing with carcillo that is a plus.
by isavedlatin on Jul 14, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
your misusing my words
I said that I want Carcillo playing 1st line because I want Sherdev playing 3rd line. you said that you would have rather kept Asham over carcillo, and I said that I would have normally agreed, but one of those two would have to play 1st line, and I said i think carcillo is a better option at 1st line then Asham
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
When are you going to stop saying 1st line. Richards is not the first line center on this team.
Just Call Me "M"!
its the top line though. I think most people use the Richie line as the #1, the HBL as the #2, and the young guns as the #3 in their depth charts
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
That is the first problem. The centers in order have to be Briere, Giroux, Richards and Betts if this team is going to be successful. This is why Carter is so expendable.
Just Call Me "M"!
Carter is only expendable if he can’t produce as a winger.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 12:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So you’ll have a top line of players that were a combined -16, a second line of -10 plus whatever Zherdev brings, and a third line that’s a combined +5. That’s…special.
Honor is no substitute for victory.
Since when is your top line worried about anything but scoring? The third line is the one that needs to be shutting down the other teams first line not adding points.
Just Call Me "M"!
Since when is the top-line excused for being one-dimensional? Why aren’t we giving more credit to Richards for not only shutting down the other team’s top lines, but for scoring on them?
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 14, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Not being excused, but rather valued under a different expectation. And that is all I have been doing is praising Richards for the true talents that he possesses that are best used in the third line role. He presents such a hard match up for other teams when he is not only shutting their best players down but adding points. That is why Pittsburgh is so hard to play against when it comes to Jordan Staal. It daggers your heart when you shut down Sid for the night and the Staal line scores two or three on you while they pounding your top lines into the ice.
Just Call Me "M"!
True, but look how Pittsburgh can’t afford wingers because they’re so deep down the middle. And you can still have that stud three-center lineup while keeping Gagne and you’re already better than Pittsburgh. But instead, we’re banking on Carter actually playing wing, then re-signing here to continue playing wing, and then being able to afford him on top of that.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 14, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Would you agree with both of the following statements?
-Carter needs to be moved.
-Giroux needs to be taught to play wing like a dog is taught to roll over, perhaps with grilled cheese as an incentive.
I would disagree with both if only because I don’t think either “needs” to do those things. If this team lined up with Richards/Briere/Giroux up the middle for 5 or 6 years, I’d most certainly be incredibly happy – assuming Giroux gets $4 mil or less.
If Carter learns how to play wing, I’m all for him staying and becoming Richie’s winger. But at this point, he’s both disinterested and unable to play wing well enough. When you look at their skill sets, Giroux is best suited to center and Carter is best suited to wing.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 14, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Those three down the middle would put us in the same situation as Pittsburgh, with tons of money committed to defense already. I don’t see how you can keep them all at center and spread their minutes out if they are your three best forwards (or, JVR-depending, thee of your best four) three years from now, as they are likely to be.
I think Carter will find incentive to play wing in a contract year. I’m just not sure will be able to afford his services with fielding the Brandon Wheat Kings as our third and fourth lines.
hmm I don’t quite see where you’re coming from. The big difference is our top two centers aren’t paid 8.7 million each. Richards and Briere are locked up long term. Giroux may get a raise to around 3 million more than what he’s earning now. That means we’d probably have a little less depth at wing, but if we get rid of Carter we can have the same wingers as we do now.
Gagne-Richards-[return for Carter should include a prospect entry-level winger]
Hartnell-Briere-Leino
JVR-Giroux-Zherdev
Laperriere-Betts-Shelley
That’s a deep deep team. Again, the difference is that we would have 16.25m in the center position as opposed to Pittsburgh that have 21.4m.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 14, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions
And that’s why you can’t have Richards, Briere, Giroux, and Carter: The Flyers would have 21.4 locked in the center position, with someone playing out of position.
If Carter shows that he can play wing this year, and do it well, this all goes away.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 14, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as Matt Calvert is one of those Brandon Wheat Kings we’re playing on the bottom six, I might be able to hop on board.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 14, 2010 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh man don’t confuse the Carter angle. I am the original get rid of Carter guy since last summer. I have been banging that drum and taking heat for a year. If I had the choice I would be dealing Carter and getting the prospect goaltender and anything else they could give me and still be happy with the just having the cap space. But they have decided it is Gagne and I love the guy but I am not glaree eyed over his career. Not sure if glaree is a word but it worked well with my point.
Just Call Me "M"!
haha, it did indeed work well.
Man-crushin' on Boucher since 1999
Broad Street Hockey - Makin' it look mean since 1967.
by Geoff Detweiler on Jul 14, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I think people do it because richie is clearly the teams best forward. It doesn’t neceassirly mean he is on the top offensive line. He gets a lot of starts in the defensive end. While the HBL line gets more in the offensive end. Id consider the HBL the top scoring line.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 12:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Ok, then carcillo is playing on the Richie line with carter. I didnt really think it mattered that much.
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Sorry it just seems people are making it a big deal about carcillo being a first liner.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 12:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Richards is the teams best all around forward, yes. But his talents are best served shutting down the other teams first line like Jordan Staal does and clearly he is not as offensively talented as Briere and Giroux.
Just Call Me "M"!
Exactly. Richards isn’t the first line center. It isn’t his burden to score the most points. He will still get powerplay time and still score his share of points but he has other duties. Also just because carcillo is slotted as one of richie’s wingers doesn’t mean everytime richie is on the ice carcillo will definitely be there.
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 12:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
exactly. ppl need to get the line #1 notion out of their heads. we can roll 3 lines evenly and the offensive line would be the HBL line. It’s not like in terms of shifts that carter-richards-carcillo would get more than the other lines. I’d be willing to bet that at the end of the game if we are losing that carbomb comes off that line and giroux goes in his place and that would be a true #1 line. Lines are about more than the names/ talent on the line; it’s all about the role and chemistry a line plays
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
In fact that’s exactly what we saw last season. When the team needed a goal giroux replaced carbomb as richies winger. You’re right in assuming it will be that the same thing this season
by tmurder on Jul 14, 2010 1:01 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Exactly!
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 14, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
and if it means anything
I also said I would take Powe over both
Pilgrim: Be gone pest, and give me the Bird
Yakko: We'd love to but the FOX censors wouldn't allow it
Okay we need to recap I would take Shelley aside from the whole conversation, period. I would rate them Asham. Powe and then Carcillo.
Just Call Me "M"!
here’s the thing, with or without these guys the flyers forward depth rivals just about anyone in the eastern conference except maybe washington. so when youre talking about role players, its really all a bit of a wash. the biggest implication here is how these signings effect the cap.
by isavedlatin on Jul 14, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
No no, Pdaddy, I am 100% with you. There is a serious problem when Dan Carcillo is getting considered as a 1st line winger. Its an absolute joke . . .
@Mitchman88 on Twitter
by Mitchell Green on Jul 14, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
m, i agree. i don;t consider richards to be the first line center either. the flyers definitely have enough skilled forwards to roll out a lot of options depending on what is working any given night
A belated welcome to the blog!
I just clicked on your ID – you have a business in Pottstown? You’ll find that there are quite a few of us here with Pottstown connections. I lived most of my life there.
And, is your ID a reference to the movie “Rushmore”? I think it must be, but I thought I’d ask. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 14, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks! actually its a reference to a song. and yes, i do have a business in pottstown. i, unfortunately, have been in this area my whole life as well, and since i started my business it looks like that isn’t likely to change any time soon. i make it sound as if i hate it here, but really its not that bad. how did you end up in england?
thanks! actually its a reference to a song. and yes, i do have a business in pottstown. i, unfortunately, have been in this area my whole life as well, and since i started my business it looks like that isn’t likely to change any time soon. i make it sound as if i hate it here, but really its not that bad. how did you end up in england?
Pottstown is a nice town. I loved growing up there, but I can understand having mixed opinions about living/working there. :)
Which song is you ID from? You have piqued my interest. :)
I ended up in England due to meeting the love of my life here, thanks to the Internet, believe it or not.
Well, welcome again to the blog – I already know you have good taste because you root for the right team. :)
#1 Flyers fan in England (originally from Southeastern PA)
by Orange and Black Forever on Jul 14, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This just popped up on the sidebar, and I figured I’d post it for anyone who didn’t spot it (and it’ll get bumped off eventually anyway…). It makes me sad to think of him as “available”, but at least it’s being billed as that he would be worth the risk to get…
Is it worth giving up an asset and taking on $5 million in salary for a player that’s averaged just 54 games the past three years?
Of course it is, and here are three reasons why.
1. When Healthy, He’s A Legitimate First-Line Winger
And first-line wingers aren’t exactly growing on trees this offseason. Over the past five seasons Gagne has played at least 70 games three times (only once in the past three), and managed to tally the following goal totals: 47, 41, 34. He scored 17 in 58 games this past season. He’s also a valuable player when he doesn’t have the puck, playing a strong two-way game. The $5 million question, however, is how many games are you going to get from him?
2. It’s Only A One-Year Contract
While $5.2 million in cap space — plus whatever you have to give up to get him — might be an expensive price to pay for a player with Gagne’s injury history, his current deal only has one year remaining and is not a long-term risk. It’s not a contract you’re going to be saddled with for multiple years into the future. And as Bruce Ciskie mentioned last week, since Gagne is entering a contract year he will have plenty of motivation to have a big season.
3. After Kovalchuk, He’s The Best Of What’s Left
This kind of goes back to point No. 1, but have you seen the list of available wingers not named Kovalchuk? It’s a slim group, and not one of them has the upside — or two-way game — that Gagne possesses for this upcoming season.
i just posted this link the gagne trade thread. makes me believe we might get multiple suitors and actually get something good back in return (still naively hoping for Quick/ Bernier)
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m frightened by the fact that even if it was a straight Gagne for Quick swap, we’d have a paltry 15k in cap room if we don’t count the bonus cushion and count those bonuses against the real cap. I don’t like using the bonus cushion because we really can’t afford to have our cap penalized next year, so I worry about getting under it for real. And while I realize that we will waive Cote and would send Boosh down or trade him if we got Quick and all that would give us more wiggle room, I still really don’t like it. We’re so far over that we can’t possibly legitimately get a goalie and truly replace Gags with the room the trade would create.
by DragonGirl0583 on Jul 14, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
well its one or the other and i’m happy with forward situation, so i’d rather we address goal situation with a trade
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
NYR
NJD
NYI
Sabers
Avalanche
TB Lighting
Coyotes
Kings
just to name a few
The guy is wanted.
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
And if we trade him to NJD, NYI, NYR, Toronto or the Sabers…
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 14, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
LA is best for all parties involved. Just need kovalchuk to go sign with NJ (give them cap hell) and we might get a good return for gagne
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
OOPS
You are assuming that Simon would approve all of those trades. He might not.
Yes, he would be risking Homer waiving him. But he would also be forcing Homer’s hand as well (and possibly flushing out his lack of strategy). Of course, the supply/demand curve doesn’t look so well if Kovie signs with LA and Simon has only a limited number of approved clubs. Homer isn’t getting much.
I suspect that Homer thought Simon would simply waive the NTC. He did not (as he said on RDS).
Yes I am old. I remember the Phils good old days and their bad old days. Course, the good old days I'm thinking of were in 2009.
Homer's Epics: An Odyssey for the Salary Cap, The Quest For the Goalie Grail
No Im not assuming that
I am only listing teams I have articles mentioning Gegne as a good fit to their clubs.
I bet there are even more clubs that are intrested as well (that could afford him too)
The Wild or St. Louis for example, but I haven’t read anything coming from either of them
I was simply showing that a lot of clubs would love to have a player like Gagne
Whatever you suspect, or assume about Homer and Gagnes actions will be played out soon enough
Do I want him traded to within the conference? No
Could it happen if Gagne waives his NTC? They did it with Eric Lindros
bread. butter. cheese. VICTORY!
by Prometheus74 on Jul 14, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
and that Lindros trade was a bust for both teams
by historywillbemade on Jul 14, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
But then didn’t Clarkie go and say that he doesn’t believe Eric was a threat to them or something to that extent…basically said he wasn’t worried about trading Lindros within the conference.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 15, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions
also there was enough anti-Lindros sentiment in the fanbase and front office to justify playing against him multiple times a season.
Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger; Briere, Betts and Pronger;
Our team is so much stronger
We've got Briere, Betts and Pronger...
by PursuitOfLappyness on Jul 15, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
well Clarkie was right. Rangers did nothing with Lindros in their lineup, but then again Hlavac and Brendl were wastes of roster spots
by historywillbemade on Jul 15, 2010 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Broad Street Hockey
Related FanShots on Broad Street Hockey
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Penguins, Bruins face their challenges in Eastern Conference showdown
- Olli Jokinen’s slump-buster is a Big Mac meal from McDonalds (Video)
- Friday’s Three Stars: Brassard wins it for Blue Jackets in overtime; Halak blanks Kings
- Puck Previews: Blues host Kings in first game after break; Blackhawks’ road struggles
- Best barometer of the St. Louis Blues’ success? Gifts from political lobbyists
Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- WHL Roundup: A look at Friday's games
- Gabriel and Leipsic two goals each as the Winterhawks defeat the Silvertips 7-3
- Feser solidifies Americans win with two empty-net goals against the Thunderbirds
- Holberg scores winner in shootout as the Chiefs beat the Royals 6-5
- Brown makes 26 saves to lead the Rockets over the Cougars 2-1
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
